People acting like assholes is more of an internet thing. That's why I find it hard to find people I like in MMOs.
As for people whining about MMOs in general... I think a lot of people fell in love with the genre and expect it to be further along at this point. MMOs haven't really changed much in years. There is a nice amount of variety right now, but most of these games are mediocre.
I agree with this. The anonymity of the internet has created a new breed of imbecile.
Furthermore, I find it kind of ironic, in a comical way, that this thread was started by 'Antipathy' - a name you chose. I guess it's just considered kinda cool to be negative these days.
People acting like assholes is more of an internet thing. That's why I find it hard to find people I like in MMOs. As for people whining about MMOs in general... I think a lot of people fell in love with the genre and expect it to be further along at this point. MMOs haven't really changed much in years. There is a nice amount of variety right now, but most of these games are mediocre.
I agree with this. The anonymity of the internet has created a new breed of imbecile.
Furthermore, I find it kind of ironic, in a comical way, that this thread was started by 'Antipathy' - a name you chose. I guess it's just considered kinda cool to be negative these days.
Antipathy means opposite, and isn't necessarily negative. It definitely isn't synonomous with "moaner".
The forum name actually comes from one of my first Warcraft characters who was a Warlock, and seemed quite appropriate for the class. It seemed appropriate for the class. I also have a priest called Sympathy :-).
TBH, I'm amazed so many people here can't see what I'm talking about. It's possible I'm wrong, but it seems to me that some of you may have become so immersed in the culture that you can't see the wood for the trees.
I can't help thinking that other places aren't like this. Many people might occasionally grumble about stuff in their everyday lives, but the average person doesn't go out of his way to moan, and spend hours creating moaning forum posts, and more hours reading the same. Because the average person has the common sense to realize that the activity is essentially pointless. All it does is make people unhappy and it doesn't actually fix anything (note that there's a strong difference between constructive criticism and moaning).
Take my example of battleground chat - moaning is very common there, and achieves absolutely nothing. It lowers morale of the team. All the time spent moaning (or telling moaners to shut up), takes time away that could be more usefully employed in PvP, and can, if unchecked, clog chat channels with crap that could obscure vital tactical information (e.g. warnings of incomings). It's pointless. So why do people do it?
To be honest, my comment on your name was somewhat tongue-in cheek.
Still, the definition on Dictionary.com reads as follows:
Antipathy
–noun, plural -thies.
1.
a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion.
2.
an instinctive contrariety or opposition in feeling.
3.
an object of natural aversion or habitual dislike.
I would say that's pretty negative.
Back on topic I think people understand your point, but simply disagree. As well as the moaning there is a common trend on forums for people to assume others with a different opinion somehow don't understand their argument. I would suggest that often they just have a different opinion.
People assume other people are more stupid then them. Like why did you feel the need to tell me what a word meant when I fully understood the meaning. Incidently I do accept it is antonym to sympathy.
I see negativity in all internet forums. I post on a football forum (soccer if you're American), where most posters actually support the same team and yet it's almost entirely negative.
When I look at posts on this web site, a huge portion of them are very negative. People complaining about the lack of sandbox games. Or real death penalties. Or the imminent demise of P2P games. Or the dubious ethics of P2P companies. Or any one of a thousand different things. Some of these complaints are argued intelligently and articulately. Others are clearly made by clueless people who haven't thought in the slightest depth about what they are asking for.
When I look on the official WoW forums again, I see huge amounts of moaning. Class X is overpowered in PvP. Gear Score stops me raiding. PuG players are awful etc. etc.
I currently play in a WoW battlegroup (EU-Misery) where both sides are quite quite even, and stand good chances in any given battleground. However, the minute my side falls behind, battleground chat becomes full of moaning and personal attacks e.g. "Alliance are crap", "Player Y is a noob" etc. etc. I've heard Horde chat is much the same. Less than 50% of battleground chat consists of anything remotely tactically useful (e.g. calling incomings).
Sometimes I see such negativity when performing entirely innocent activities. E.g. a few weeks away I was hunting for a creature called the "Fel Reaver". I asked in zone chat, and the conversation was something like:
Me: Anyone seen the Fel Reaver?
Player: Just type "/t Fel Reaver"
Me: Tried that it didn't work
Player: You should be able to target it from half the zone away
Me: Well I can't. I've tried it and it didn't work.
Player: Well then your graphics settings are wrong. Your PC is crap. Get a new PC.
So I was asking for help in finding a single creature, and ended up with my PC being insulted...
There are so many moans that at times I find myself having to back away - e.g. taking a break from reading forums, because repeated exposure feels so depressing (and so many of the moans are, essentially, the same as others).
I can't help thinking "Is there a common factor"? Some of these moans may refer to legitimate problems, but the ratio of moaning to positivity seems to me to be heavily skewed in all these instances. Is there a deeper problem?
For example:
- Are people attracted to MMOs more likely to have a personality type that dwells on negative elements (e.g. pessimists or people prone to depression?)
- Is there something in the typical MMO players lifestyle that makes him more prone to negativity (e.g. lack of sunlight, poor diet).
- Many MMOs are designed to create regular small doses of pleasure (levelling up, new gear etc), which in turn can lead to addictive behaviour. When these doses of pleasure are in some way interrupted or delayed, do they lead to negativity? In other words, are the moans merely withdrawal symptoms?
- Or is this negativity a reflection of a culture of entitlement that goes well beyond the MMO industry?
Or are there several different factors at work here. Your opinions?
It's the same thing I see at work in real life. A bunch of people sitting around bashing people who aren't there, complaining about the job, their manager, various policies, broken or outdated equipment and other employees that do a crap job.
This is the virtual watering hole. People stand around and do what naturally comes to human beings. We complain. Occasionally someone will say something nice, then there will be a silence, maybe some head nodding around the table and a few in agreement. Then back to the same old shit.
Humans are genetically lazy (sorry if this offends). So in allmost any sort of feedback system, the majority of people that respond, or make new threads, are upset enough to put in the effort! The other's that do not have problems, do not often respond at all! (In the case of mmo's, they are probablly busy playing)
Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, which makes life more interesting!
The internet has this filter where someone has a good idea or a genuine desire and then it turns it into sheer shit.
I mostly blame the lack of langage skills across the board. Also the fact that in most education systems analytical thinking is just assumed. There should be classes taught on how to form cohesive thoughts to share with others.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
The answer ....we hear the moaners....we don't hear the non moaners.Thus the impression is created that the gaming world is populated with a lot of moaners.
The moaners are just the loud ones A lot of the veterans are also quite tired of the genre and wish for something new that isn't part of this generation of games it seems. I think we do play and enjoy it however, many of just also like to complain about the lack of progress in the genre.
I used to love getting involved with the community in MMOs - now I can't stand them. They've become almost like an environment that you would see on 4chan and it is just unbearable. Newbies can't ask a simple question about an aspect of the game without being mocked and harrassed anymore in these games. A lot of people really feel entitled to be rude and obnoxious on the internet these days.. not just MMOs. I'm sure everyone that plays MMOs play it partly for the social aspect - the community. But when its infested with nothing but trolls and such anymore, that aspect becomes diminished and hurts the game as a whole.
I can't stand people who piss and moan in general, but there is something to be bothered about when it comes to the current state of MMOs. If there were some good alternatives to World of Warcraft or even several, I'm sure people wouldn't complain as much. They'd be too busy having fun with the alternative... unless its someone that enjoys being butthurt all the time.
Comments
I agree with this. The anonymity of the internet has created a new breed of imbecile.
Furthermore, I find it kind of ironic, in a comical way, that this thread was started by 'Antipathy' - a name you chose. I guess it's just considered kinda cool to be negative these days.
next time try thottbot?
I agree with this. The anonymity of the internet has created a new breed of imbecile.
Furthermore, I find it kind of ironic, in a comical way, that this thread was started by 'Antipathy' - a name you chose. I guess it's just considered kinda cool to be negative these days.
Antipathy means opposite, and isn't necessarily negative. It definitely isn't synonomous with "moaner".
The forum name actually comes from one of my first Warcraft characters who was a Warlock, and seemed quite appropriate for the class. It seemed appropriate for the class. I also have a priest called Sympathy :-).
TBH, I'm amazed so many people here can't see what I'm talking about. It's possible I'm wrong, but it seems to me that some of you may have become so immersed in the culture that you can't see the wood for the trees.
I can't help thinking that other places aren't like this. Many people might occasionally grumble about stuff in their everyday lives, but the average person doesn't go out of his way to moan, and spend hours creating moaning forum posts, and more hours reading the same. Because the average person has the common sense to realize that the activity is essentially pointless. All it does is make people unhappy and it doesn't actually fix anything (note that there's a strong difference between constructive criticism and moaning).
Take my example of battleground chat - moaning is very common there, and achieves absolutely nothing. It lowers morale of the team. All the time spent moaning (or telling moaners to shut up), takes time away that could be more usefully employed in PvP, and can, if unchecked, clog chat channels with crap that could obscure vital tactical information (e.g. warnings of incomings). It's pointless. So why do people do it?
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To be honest, my comment on your name was somewhat tongue-in cheek.
Still, the definition on Dictionary.com reads as follows:
Antipathy
–noun, plural -thies.
1.
a natural, basic, or habitual repugnance; aversion.
2.
an instinctive contrariety or opposition in feeling.
3.
an object of natural aversion or habitual dislike.
I would say that's pretty negative.
Back on topic I think people understand your point, but simply disagree. As well as the moaning there is a common trend on forums for people to assume others with a different opinion somehow don't understand their argument. I would suggest that often they just have a different opinion.
People assume other people are more stupid then them. Like why did you feel the need to tell me what a word meant when I fully understood the meaning. Incidently I do accept it is antonym to sympathy.
I see negativity in all internet forums. I post on a football forum (soccer if you're American), where most posters actually support the same team and yet it's almost entirely negative.
It's the same thing I see at work in real life. A bunch of people sitting around bashing people who aren't there, complaining about the job, their manager, various policies, broken or outdated equipment and other employees that do a crap job.
This is the virtual watering hole. People stand around and do what naturally comes to human beings. We complain. Occasionally someone will say something nice, then there will be a silence, maybe some head nodding around the table and a few in agreement. Then back to the same old shit.
It is not just mmo's that suffer from this trend!
Humans are genetically lazy (sorry if this offends). So in allmost any sort of feedback system, the majority of people that respond, or make new threads, are upset enough to put in the effort! The other's that do not have problems, do not often respond at all! (In the case of mmo's, they are probablly busy playing)
Of course there are always exceptions to the rule, which makes life more interesting!
The internet has this filter where someone has a good idea or a genuine desire and then it turns it into sheer shit.
I mostly blame the lack of langage skills across the board. Also the fact that in most education systems analytical thinking is just assumed. There should be classes taught on how to form cohesive thoughts to share with others.
I kill other players because they're smarter than AI, sometimes.
That's what she said...
The answer ....we hear the moaners....we don't hear the non moaners.Thus the impression is created that the gaming world is populated with a lot of moaners.
The moaners are just the loud ones
A lot of the veterans are also quite tired of the genre and wish for something new that isn't part of this generation of games it seems. I think we do play and enjoy it however, many of just also like to complain about the lack of progress in the genre.
I used to love getting involved with the community in MMOs - now I can't stand them. They've become almost like an environment that you would see on 4chan and it is just unbearable. Newbies can't ask a simple question about an aspect of the game without being mocked and harrassed anymore in these games. A lot of people really feel entitled to be rude and obnoxious on the internet these days.. not just MMOs. I'm sure everyone that plays MMOs play it partly for the social aspect - the community. But when its infested with nothing but trolls and such anymore, that aspect becomes diminished and hurts the game as a whole.
I can't stand people who piss and moan in general, but there is something to be bothered about when it comes to the current state of MMOs. If there were some good alternatives to World of Warcraft or even several, I'm sure people wouldn't complain as much. They'd be too busy having fun with the alternative... unless its someone that enjoys being butthurt all the time.