Yeah sorry, I worded it improperly. It's not 'F2P' that I hate, it's the modern type of F2P model where they lure you in with the promise if a free game and then shove additional costs down your throat at end-game that cost you more than a subscription fee. I'd honestly rather pay a generous subscription fee than have to navigate through annoying website and item malls each week.
As much as people despise the game I think that Runescape is a perfect example of a fair F2P/P2P model that doesn't turn off either playerbase.
I agree that runescapes F2P/ P2P model is a good way to do it. That way players can play the game and find out whether or not they like it and can choose to subscribe. Their use of ads also works well simply because they can charge a lower monthly fee because of the advertisers support in the F2P area. I would like to see more games take that route. The entire game isn;t really F2P but it has it's own " F2P" section. As much as they have messed that game up over the years, there are some really good concepts that can be salvaged from it that would benefit many other MMOS.
Guild wars also has a fair Buy to play system as well. You buy the box and can play it forever without any more fees. That is fair enough. You can choose to add content with future box purchases, but they are not necessary to enjoy the game. Also- their shop did not have any effect on gameplay at all. which was really a good idea, they sold only things like extra character slots and such, not anything that would really infringe upon any one elses game play. That would only be benficial for someone who didn;t want to delete one of their characters to make a new one, and they already provide ample charcter slots per box. Which i think is more than fair.
I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games. Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and make educated decisions based on that experience.
It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you become successful. LOL
Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.
It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.
Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.
They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.
We'll see how those "better games" end up.
Guild wars 2 is one of those games.. yes, let's just see...
I was really surprised when they used 3/4 of what I suggested on the survey in the new game. Can;t wait to see it.
I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games. Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and make educated decisions based on that experience.
It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you become successful. LOL
Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.
It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.
Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.
They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.
We'll see how those "better games" end up.
you are completely right.
people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .
the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that. the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job. no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind". most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.
they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.
I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games. Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and make educated decisions based on that experience.
It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you become successful. LOL
Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.
It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.
Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.
They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.
We'll see how those "better games" end up.
you are completely right.
people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .
the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that. the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job. no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind". most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.
they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.
A game should be fun, challenging and entertaining, not repetitive. There is a difference. What some players may want, is not what all players say they want. You generalize and stereo type rather than understand the community is made up of individuals, and among those individuals are some really great ideas and feedback.
I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games. Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and make educated decisions based on that experience.
It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you become successful. LOL
Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.
It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.
Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.
They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.
We'll see how those "better games" end up.
you are completely right.
people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .
the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that. the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job. no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind". most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.
they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.
A game should be fun, chalenging and entertaing, not repetitive. There is a difference. What some players may want, is not what all players say they want. You generalize and stereo type rather than understand the community is made up of individuals, and among those individuals are some really great ideas and feedback.
you can't talk about groups of people without generalizing. and we ARE talking about entire groups of people here. context.
HOWEVER, you are most likely being a good specific example here. you say you want challenging gameplay and you don't want repetition.
so what MMOs do you play?
being that you are on this site, its most likely your most played MMOs are the very epitome of unchallenging & repetitive gameplay. quite opposite of what you say you want.
You nailed it OP. We need games that require groups and creates conflict between groups in a sandbox world. there ENOUGH of these generic crappy MMOs for the people that like to play online games by themselves.
You nailed it OP. We need games that require groups and creates conflict between groups in a sandbox world. there ENOUGH of these generic crappy MMOs for the people that like to play online games by themselves.
The community. It's not there. I'm not talking about forums, guides, population, etc. No I'm talking about people actually knowing each other in the game.
I miss having enemies. Those guilds and people that you just hate and want to do everything possible to defeat them. In swg, we loved nothing more than raiding another guild's city and clone camping them for a night. It was a constant struggle between us and them. There was meta-gaming, flame wars, propaganda, etc. It was just plain fun. It felt like a real enemy in the real world.
Games now you can't even talk to the other faction in game. There are no player cities, there rarely is open world pvp, there is no sandbox. It doesn't feel like a world. It feels like a game, a souless game.
I realized this while playing wow today. I was in a battleground and was killing people, but I felt no sense of accomplishment. Nothing. In SWG I could spend 20 minutes fighting one person who I'd had a bad relationship with for months and after I killed them it felt like so much more of an accomplishment than if I had killed some no name from a different server who I'd never even talked to.
I really hope some big budget games go back to the virtual world idea. Grinding gear and points is completely boring. I want to make friends and enemies and have an actual impact on the world.
Amen, Bloodfin ftw!....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree OP. Part of it has to do with global chat and hiding behind "Trammel". People aren't held accountable for anything. I can't tell you how many times I go back to the same games and the same douche canoe is rambling off years later. If it were an open PVP world with consequences (ie UO, EVE, Mortal) I would hunt them down till they left the server or game completely.
I remember first playing FFXI, where partying was not an option, but a requirement to level. The death penalty was high and the sound of deleveling sometimes put a player into a real bout of depression. The mobs were tough, and you had to be so careful exploring or you would surely die. The HNM (rare super boss spawns) battles were immense and epic. Any guild you joined, you befriended everyone in it. And if you were a complete douchebag, you were known through out the server as one. Healers that go AFK during parties constantly? Blacklisted. People really knew each other. That game made me love MMOs.
I didn't realize that an MMO's fun factor came from it's community until I played iRO. Alone, that game is moronic beyond belief. But I had some amazing times in that game. The guild wars were intense and the rivalry almost too high. There were spies from the rival guilds joining and befriending other guild members, there were parties in game when you'd reach cap level, it was an awesome experience.
Ultimately, I 100% agree with the OP. This is why my hope for MMO's has been dwindling and I am eagerly awaiting FFXIV, knowing it will be party based (albeit not as extreme as FFXI). If it fails, I'm not sure I will be able to pick myself back up from it. My love for MMO's might not make it after that.
I disagree. We know what we want, and some developers actually take the time to use that information to make better games. Why Don;t you just ask Arena Net about that. They had us fill out surveys and they used that information to make Guild wars2. Many of us have played a great variety of games, and make educated decisions based on that experience.
It is all about supply and demand. It is the developers job to suppy us with a game that we demand. Whoever gets there first and does it the best wins our money. That is how you become successful. LOL
Heh, like I said, you think you know what you want. Everyone does.
It's just not what you really enjoy 99% of the time.
Just like people who think if they just had lots of money they'd be happy. Or a new car. Or if their life was just a bit better they'd be satisfied.
They think they know what they want. But only when you get it, you can realize you were wrong all this time.
We'll see how those "better games" end up.
you are completely right.
people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .
the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that. the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job. no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind". most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.
they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.
A game should be fun, chalenging and entertaing, not repetitive. There is a difference. What some players may want, is not what all players say they want. You generalize and stereo type rather than understand the community is made up of individuals, and among those individuals are some really great ideas and feedback.
you can't talk about groups of people without generalizing. and we ARE talking about entire groups of people here. context.
HOWEVER, you are most likely being a good specific example here. you say you want challenging gameplay and you don't want repetition.
so what MMOs do you play?
being that you are on this site, its most likely your most played MMOs are the very epitome of unchallenging & repetitive gameplay. quite opposite of what you say you want.
It does not have to be repetitive to be challenging. There are many options available and quests are not supposed to be Kill x number, or just slay this boss. There are puzzles, clues, different activities that can be incorporated to make them non repetitive and challenging. I am currently playing strategy games,FPS and co-op because of the stale state of MMOS. I have played many mmos, and come back to some older ones ocassionaly, but for the most part with all their " combat upgrades" and " nerfs" they have even managed to ruin the older games.
crafting should not be gather x amount of items go to an npc and have them make something for you, no- crafting should be about player creativity, more along the lines of how Guild wars allowed you to design your own capes instead. Socketing items like you did in Diablo to determine your weapons/ armor stats, being able to salavge the materials from items to reuse them. Instead of focusing on " taking forever to mine or gather "and then make some lame ass object in a game isn;t even crafting. LOL
Being able to insert emblems, socketable stats, and actually have an effect on the item removes the cookie cutter crap. Instead of focusing on repetition, make learning to craft more like being an " apprentice" in reality. For example: to learn how to make kitanas, throwing knives ect you go to a specific region. pass some tests, and then you can make them. from there you can get dragon emblems and such and design it how you wish, then socket it with various effects. the more combinations of skills you obtain the more interesting and diverse items you can then create. That is not repeitive unless you choose to make it be. You have a choice as to whether you want to repeat an activity, but will not need to do so to advance.
The community. It's not there. I'm not talking about forums, guides, population, etc. No I'm talking about people actually knowing each other in the game.
I miss having enemies. Those guilds and people that you just hate and want to do everything possible to defeat them. In swg, we loved nothing more than raiding another guild's city and clone camping them for a night. It was a constant struggle between us and them. There was meta-gaming, flame wars, propaganda, etc. It was just plain fun. It felt like a real enemy in the real world.
Games now you can't even talk to the other faction in game. There are no player cities, there rarely is open world pvp, there is no sandbox. It doesn't feel like a world. It feels like a game, a souless game.
I realized this while playing wow today. I was in a battleground and was killing people, but I felt no sense of accomplishment. Nothing. In SWG I could spend 20 minutes fighting one person who I'd had a bad relationship with for months and after I killed them it felt like so much more of an accomplishment than if I had killed some no name from a different server who I'd never even talked to.
I really hope some big budget games go back to the virtual world idea. Grinding gear and points is completely boring. I want to make friends and enemies and have an actual impact on the world.
Well, In AoC (on the Cimmeria server at least) this exists...to an extent. Cimmeria is the US RP-PvP server so of course there is RP guilds who have "wars", but there are also many non-RP guilds that are enemies. The guild I was in was PvP allies with another guild until said guild turned invited some of our guildies into their city and began to attack them over and over.
That started major conflict between us...in response we sneeked into their city and hit up a bunch of them while they were teaching some noobs to PvP. We paid one of their own guildies to let us in lol.....then we rez camped them for a few hours....was that a battle.
A lot of that was going on before the xpac was released...now...everyone is in Khitai...blah
PLAYING: NOTHING!!! PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
I am typing this on my droid x so pardon the bad formatting. I have been playing mmorpgs and muds since they existed in the early eighties. It is my feeling that as games become more advanced they lose a lot of their personality. One of the lesser known oldies was darkness falls from mythic...and it's successor darkness falls the crusade. They paved the way for DAOC. These ancient muds had very tight communities and had working faction systems and player driven economies and actual in game prisons for rule violators..i actually spent some time in one lol. This was all going on in the early 90s before even Eq was launched. The more subs you get the less radical you can think as a developer...that is why mythic currently has a kind if dud in warhammer. Wow has done more damage to the community than any other mmo in history...it hasn't been a bad game persay, but it solidified the concept of macro communities with little personalized struggles involved. I must say though that there is a strong sense of achievement when you do down raid bosses. To find a good community you are the one responsible for creating it honestly.
Darkfall is a very good candidate for becoming the best pvp community in an mmo...in my opinion. I played it about seven months ago and was impressed then and have heard it has improved much since then even. Make no mistake though things are never going to be the same as the early days again...it is your responsibility as a player and consumer to forge your own life and communities in these virtual worlds. Be careful though that you don't lose sight of reality when you play...this is what forced me to stop after being a follower for almost two decades. I would love to help design an mmo...similar to darkfall and uo...with a lore and history such as darkness falls the crusade..with the size and complexity of everquest...with the wide appeal of warcraft...and the crafting system of final fantasy 14...and the wide range of classes and spells and abilities of oblivion...anyone on board?? Oh yeah and either the graphics of crisis or maybe just make it text based lol. Limit the servers to five hundred or one thousand and make it no instances like darkfall or eq 1 those were the days huh? we should also incorporate real time destructive environs and throw in time travel as well. Cause who doesn't love chrono trigger? Obviously we need voice acting from patrick stewart and anthony hopkins to complete our game and a soundtrack from both hans zimmer and danny elfman...that will be the best ever...thoughts?
I really agree with you what you are saying about having a meaningful relationship with players in the game. When I play Ryzom we still have this kind of a connection with others. Our guild is Kami-based and there is another faction called Karavan. Well, we are bitterly set against one another and are constantly warring over outposts in-game. But of course, the games with communities like this are all older. WOW definitely still has these types of scenarios. The new ones are a bit more disappointing by comparison.
Looking back one of the things i miss about FFXI was the fact that most people did not have alts. Sure you had your mules but in general you had one char that was known. It was one of the few games where i was invited to a guild as a low level player not becouse it was a mass spam invite but becouse people had grouped with me on a number of occations. At the end of the day i would much rather group with someone that i enjoyed bullshiting with , then on the gear they have.
I think that part of the issues is the drive for gear in general, when your main focus is on getting the next drop, regarless if it is a solo firendly or group based game you are much more concerned with your self and not on other people. GW2 looks very promising with the dynamic quest system, where as a community you have the oportunity to do something but who knows how it will turn out, WAR had a good idea with the public quests but in the end people just grinded them for the gear.
I also think part of the problem is with how PVP is setup these days, if all you are doing is killing someone for the points in order to get more gear, then for me atleast it is just another mindless grind. At some point you i feel i have to do something becouse it is fun, not just for a means to some end.
And you could not have seen this before starting to play WoW hahaha.
Funny guys you gamers:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009..... In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I miss SWG... I remember back when pet mounts where new, we would mount up and half to litteraly cross the entire span of tatooine before we where able to raid the enemy city.We raided Mos Syn, if anyone played flurry. Those were the good ol days in GSF.
Honestly, what the hell happened, SWG was really the only game that delivered so much social fun with a community, whether striving to build a city, or chatting in a cantina, or talking to that random guy in the 30 man buff line waiting so u can go hunting. Or sending ATST's and launching a attack back when anchorhead was populated.
I do miss the blood pledge wars in Lineage. All the guild were people who swore fealty to a prince or princess and those pledges could declare war on eachother. They could also have alliances. It made things personal and actually really fun. The game however had a lot of real world violence in Korea because of this.
But fun should be something in between having a guild camp your respawn point for ages to grief you and battlegrounds, neither is fun. Guildcities is a great thing or fortresses, particularly if you design them yourself.
And I would love a game were your guild could design their own dungeon with traps and monster mercenaries.
Anyways, OP is right. PvP needs to be more than what it is today. But it also needs to keep griefing down a bit. A little is exciting but too much will just be boring.
There are several games with acceptable PvP out there but they are not close to what they could be. If nothing else, the fact that most MMO players prefer PvE while most FPS players prefer PvP tells us that MMOs is not living up to what it should be.
And you could not have seen this before starting to play WoW hahaha. Funny guys you gamers:P
This coming from a guy that plays darkfall. A game that's most popular gameplay choice is grinding mobs solo all day. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones dude.
In game politics are great. I loved getting hate tells after ganking someone. Then they bring their friends and camp my spawn, AWESOME. It's so much better when you can interact, when you make friends who drop what they're doing to get you uncamped, when you get people ticked enough TO camp, ahh the gold old days.
Sadly, the trend lately is towards being so politically correct and protecting the feelings of every player, that nobody gets really emotionally involved...just addicted, which isn't nearly as fulfilling or fun.
Originally posted by Preponerance I agree OP. Part of it has to do with global chat and hiding behind "Trammel". People aren't held accountable for anything. I can't tell you how many times I go back to the same games and the same douche canoe is rambling off years later. If it were an open PVP world with consequences (ie UO, EVE, Mortal) I would hunt them down till they left the server or game completely.
. Err... This illustrates why the company made the changes and blocked you from doing such things. Your actions brought about Trammel.
Comments
basicly the problem is not the games themselfves. its the people in the games.
I agree that runescapes F2P/ P2P model is a good way to do it. That way players can play the game and find out whether or not they like it and can choose to subscribe. Their use of ads also works well simply because they can charge a lower monthly fee because of the advertisers support in the F2P area. I would like to see more games take that route. The entire game isn;t really F2P but it has it's own " F2P" section. As much as they have messed that game up over the years, there are some really good concepts that can be salvaged from it that would benefit many other MMOS.
Guild wars also has a fair Buy to play system as well. You buy the box and can play it forever without any more fees. That is fair enough. You can choose to add content with future box purchases, but they are not necessary to enjoy the game. Also- their shop did not have any effect on gameplay at all. which was really a good idea, they sold only things like extra character slots and such, not anything that would really infringe upon any one elses game play. That would only be benficial for someone who didn;t want to delete one of their characters to make a new one, and they already provide ample charcter slots per box. Which i think is more than fair.
Guild wars 2 is one of those games.. yes, let's just see...
I was really surprised when they used 3/4 of what I suggested on the survey in the new game. Can;t wait to see it.
you are completely right.
people want what ultimately makes them unhappy much of the time, and completey discount and discredit things that do or WOULD (if they didn't reject them with pat, simplistic, simple-minded reasons) make them happy .
the whole MMORPG thing is just one of the larger bits of proof of that. the majority that plays them clamours for the very features that makes them feel like they are working a 2nd job. no other form of entertainment has so many fans that complain about the very activities they are performing the most feeling like "grind". most people in this forum even use the word "work" to describe what should be "play" sessions.
they confuse addiction and compulsion with enjoyment.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
A game should be fun, challenging and entertaining, not repetitive. There is a difference. What some players may want, is not what all players say they want. You generalize and stereo type rather than understand the community is made up of individuals, and among those individuals are some really great ideas and feedback.
you can't talk about groups of people without generalizing. and we ARE talking about entire groups of people here. context.
HOWEVER, you are most likely being a good specific example here. you say you want challenging gameplay and you don't want repetition.
so what MMOs do you play?
being that you are on this site, its most likely your most played MMOs are the very epitome of unchallenging & repetitive gameplay. quite opposite of what you say you want.
---------------------------
Corpus Callosum
---------------------------
You nailed it OP. We need games that require groups and creates conflict between groups in a sandbox world. there ENOUGH of these generic crappy MMOs for the people that like to play online games by themselves.
but you cant go forveing people either.
Amen, Bloodfin ftw!....
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree OP. Part of it has to do with global chat and hiding behind "Trammel". People aren't held accountable for anything. I can't tell you how many times I go back to the same games and the same douche canoe is rambling off years later. If it were an open PVP world with consequences (ie UO, EVE, Mortal) I would hunt them down till they left the server or game completely.
I remember first playing FFXI, where partying was not an option, but a requirement to level. The death penalty was high and the sound of deleveling sometimes put a player into a real bout of depression. The mobs were tough, and you had to be so careful exploring or you would surely die. The HNM (rare super boss spawns) battles were immense and epic. Any guild you joined, you befriended everyone in it. And if you were a complete douchebag, you were known through out the server as one. Healers that go AFK during parties constantly? Blacklisted. People really knew each other. That game made me love MMOs.
I didn't realize that an MMO's fun factor came from it's community until I played iRO. Alone, that game is moronic beyond belief. But I had some amazing times in that game. The guild wars were intense and the rivalry almost too high. There were spies from the rival guilds joining and befriending other guild members, there were parties in game when you'd reach cap level, it was an awesome experience.
Ultimately, I 100% agree with the OP. This is why my hope for MMO's has been dwindling and I am eagerly awaiting FFXIV, knowing it will be party based (albeit not as extreme as FFXI). If it fails, I'm not sure I will be able to pick myself back up from it. My love for MMO's might not make it after that.
It does not have to be repetitive to be challenging. There are many options available and quests are not supposed to be Kill x number, or just slay this boss. There are puzzles, clues, different activities that can be incorporated to make them non repetitive and challenging. I am currently playing strategy games,FPS and co-op because of the stale state of MMOS. I have played many mmos, and come back to some older ones ocassionaly, but for the most part with all their " combat upgrades" and " nerfs" they have even managed to ruin the older games.
crafting should not be gather x amount of items go to an npc and have them make something for you, no- crafting should be about player creativity, more along the lines of how Guild wars allowed you to design your own capes instead. Socketing items like you did in Diablo to determine your weapons/ armor stats, being able to salavge the materials from items to reuse them. Instead of focusing on " taking forever to mine or gather "and then make some lame ass object in a game isn;t even crafting. LOL
Being able to insert emblems, socketable stats, and actually have an effect on the item removes the cookie cutter crap. Instead of focusing on repetition, make learning to craft more like being an " apprentice" in reality. For example: to learn how to make kitanas, throwing knives ect you go to a specific region. pass some tests, and then you can make them. from there you can get dragon emblems and such and design it how you wish, then socket it with various effects. the more combinations of skills you obtain the more interesting and diverse items you can then create. That is not repeitive unless you choose to make it be. You have a choice as to whether you want to repeat an activity, but will not need to do so to advance.
Well, In AoC (on the Cimmeria server at least) this exists...to an extent. Cimmeria is the US RP-PvP server so of course there is RP guilds who have "wars", but there are also many non-RP guilds that are enemies. The guild I was in was PvP allies with another guild until said guild turned invited some of our guildies into their city and began to attack them over and over.
That started major conflict between us...in response we sneeked into their city and hit up a bunch of them while they were teaching some noobs to PvP. We paid one of their own guildies to let us in lol.....then we rez camped them for a few hours....was that a battle.
A lot of that was going on before the xpac was released...now...everyone is in Khitai...blah
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
The challenge is gone. The community is gone. The need for other players is mostly gone. And role playing is long gone.
I think we need a new and more descriptive acronym. MSPGNG. Massively Single Player Grind by Numbers Games.
EQ1, EQ2, SWG, SWTOR, GW, GW2 CoH, CoV, FFXI, WoW, CO, War,TSW and a slew of free trials and beta tests
Darkfall is a very good candidate for becoming the best pvp community in an mmo...in my opinion. I played it about seven months ago and was impressed then and have heard it has improved much since then even. Make no mistake though things are never going to be the same as the early days again...it is your responsibility as a player and consumer to forge your own life and communities in these virtual worlds. Be careful though that you don't lose sight of reality when you play...this is what forced me to stop after being a follower for almost two decades. I would love to help design an mmo...similar to darkfall and uo...with a lore and history such as darkness falls the crusade..with the size and complexity of everquest...with the wide appeal of warcraft...and the crafting system of final fantasy 14...and the wide range of classes and spells and abilities of oblivion...anyone on board?? Oh yeah and either the graphics of crisis or maybe just make it text based lol. Limit the servers to five hundred or one thousand and make it no instances like darkfall or eq 1 those were the days huh? we should also incorporate real time destructive environs and throw in time travel as well. Cause who doesn't love chrono trigger? Obviously we need voice acting from patrick stewart and anthony hopkins to complete our game and a soundtrack from both hans zimmer and danny elfman...that will be the best ever...thoughts?
Jedite
Jocar
Shadon
Desperic
And many other names
I really agree with you what you are saying about having a meaningful relationship with players in the game. When I play Ryzom we still have this kind of a connection with others. Our guild is Kami-based and there is another faction called Karavan. Well, we are bitterly set against one another and are constantly warring over outposts in-game. But of course, the games with communities like this are all older. WOW definitely still has these types of scenarios. The new ones are a bit more disappointing by comparison.
www.ryzom.com
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Looking back one of the things i miss about FFXI was the fact that most people did not have alts. Sure you had your mules but in general you had one char that was known. It was one of the few games where i was invited to a guild as a low level player not becouse it was a mass spam invite but becouse people had grouped with me on a number of occations. At the end of the day i would much rather group with someone that i enjoyed bullshiting with , then on the gear they have.
I think that part of the issues is the drive for gear in general, when your main focus is on getting the next drop, regarless if it is a solo firendly or group based game you are much more concerned with your self and not on other people. GW2 looks very promising with the dynamic quest system, where as a community you have the oportunity to do something but who knows how it will turn out, WAR had a good idea with the public quests but in the end people just grinded them for the gear.
I also think part of the problem is with how PVP is setup these days, if all you are doing is killing someone for the points in order to get more gear, then for me atleast it is just another mindless grind. At some point you i feel i have to do something becouse it is fun, not just for a means to some end.
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Rev
And you could not have seen this before starting to play WoW hahaha.
Funny guys you gamers:P
Games played:AC1-Darktide'99-2000-AC2-Darktide/dawnsong2003-2005,Lineage2-2005-2006 and now Darkfall-2009.....
In between WoW few months AoC few months and some f2p also all very short few weeks.
I miss SWG... I remember back when pet mounts where new, we would mount up and half to litteraly cross the entire span of tatooine before we where able to raid the enemy city.We raided Mos Syn, if anyone played flurry. Those were the good ol days in GSF.
Honestly, what the hell happened, SWG was really the only game that delivered so much social fun with a community, whether striving to build a city, or chatting in a cantina, or talking to that random guy in the 30 man buff line waiting so u can go hunting. Or sending ATST's and launching a attack back when anchorhead was populated.
I do miss the blood pledge wars in Lineage. All the guild were people who swore fealty to a prince or princess and those pledges could declare war on eachother. They could also have alliances. It made things personal and actually really fun. The game however had a lot of real world violence in Korea because of this.
But fun should be something in between having a guild camp your respawn point for ages to grief you and battlegrounds, neither is fun. Guildcities is a great thing or fortresses, particularly if you design them yourself.
And I would love a game were your guild could design their own dungeon with traps and monster mercenaries.
Anyways, OP is right. PvP needs to be more than what it is today. But it also needs to keep griefing down a bit. A little is exciting but too much will just be boring.
There are several games with acceptable PvP out there but they are not close to what they could be. If nothing else, the fact that most MMO players prefer PvE while most FPS players prefer PvP tells us that MMOs is not living up to what it should be.
+1
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
This coming from a guy that plays darkfall. A game that's most popular gameplay choice is grinding mobs solo all day. People that live in glass houses shouldn't throw stones dude.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
I doubt that very much.
You sound like a Shadowbane player.
In game politics are great. I loved getting hate tells after ganking someone. Then they bring their friends and camp my spawn, AWESOME. It's so much better when you can interact, when you make friends who drop what they're doing to get you uncamped, when you get people ticked enough TO camp, ahh the gold old days.
Sadly, the trend lately is towards being so politically correct and protecting the feelings of every player, that nobody gets really emotionally involved...just addicted, which isn't nearly as fulfilling or fun.
Err... This illustrates why the company made the changes and blocked you from doing such things. Your actions brought about Trammel.
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren