2.) WASD is the preferred method according to who? Americans? Europeans? Japanese? These are the groups that will be in FFXIV. And, let me tell you, many Japanese dislike the keyboard with a passion so hot it makes the tenticle monsters in hentai burst into flames.
Uh, pc gamers. That's who. Considering the controller is fine, the keyboard + mouse standard pc controls should be next, which it sounds like they are. Regardless if there are 1500 or 1.5million people in love with the idea of using a controller for ffxiv, there are tens of millions of pc gamers that almost never use one. His point is illustrated decently even if the number is wrong. That said, it looks like the crowd of "go play wow" or "omgz adapt to a controller newb" is going to be fine with their controller and can kindly be quiet as it sounds like SE is making the changes and fixes a lot of people are asking for with the controls. The company obviously should want to cater to everyone.
I was trying to help him formulate a better arguement and give him skills that he can use in a scholarly and professional environment. I like trying to spread knowledge.
Obviously, I knew the answer. But thanks for your post, as it reiterates what I was saying from the start.
Originally posted by SonikFlash
In short, don't reinvent the wheel.
I find it tedious as hell to play on a gamepad and frankly it's just not my style. Plus you shouldn't be marketing it as a PC game if the accepted medium for input isn't a keyboard and mouse.
Now I'm not jumping on SE because i don't know if they did or didn't include keyboard and mouse support, the first few lines are written under the assumed proposal that they are not.
They did include it and are fixing it further as we speak. The OP seems to brain hemorrhage when he types.
Hay, Toyota has a new line of cars coming out for 2011, What I've seen so far is that most can't test drive them, only a select few. They come with milk creates for seats that would work just fine. If you can find a nice message board, I'm sure you will be able to find some good aftermarket web sites for seats. Because the cars are real nice !
OK, I get your point that they are working on the keyboard+mouse issue. I get your point that it's still in bata !
But don't you think its getting a little late for this to EVEN BE AN ISSUE !............Here on mmorpg.com I see a list of about 200 mmo's. I've played most like many of you. Of the ones I've played you have two standard styles of play WASD, and point and click. Both styles work fine, however WASD is by far the perferd method. Now before 3 or 4 of you try and chew my head off (and yes, it's only 3 or 4 of you posting so far) I know what your gonna say, why does Square Enix need to be standard..Right ?.. Well they don't have to !.... BUT, and I say BUT Final Fantasy 11 really sucked as far as control, for millions of players. Thank God that game sold for only $10 for the past five years, because it ended up in the garbage can after only a few days of play for most.
This is different. FF XIV will be displayed to the public across the world at 50 or 60 dollars. With an est.rel of 09/22/10 they better get it right and quick, even to the point of the bata testers will have to forget everything they feel comfortable of what they learned and toss it out the window, as for how to control movement. Do you really think the devs are really gonna make such a radical change in bata, with launch a little more than a month away....I hope so, WHY :
Because I'm not closed minded and just thinking of me and 1500 others. I'm trying to look out for the entire million, that will be in the return lines..... So to make a long story short....Please don't just think about your self !
,
For your infomation the controls didnt suck on FFXI thats your opinion , i and alot of others enjoyed the controls , just because you was a tool and couldnt use them does mean everyone else couldnt.
I made this analogy in another (equally stupid) thread, and I will make it again here:
Much like a car is deigned to be driven using a steering wheel, Final Fantasy XIV is designed to be played using a gamepad. In case you haven't been paying attention, or are borderline retarded, Final Fantasy XIV is being developed for the Playstation 3 console. THEREFORE, it must be playable with a gamepad. THEREFORE, the entire game has to be designed with gamepads in mind. THEREFORE, it will have certain UI elements that are different from your standard MMO because the UI has to be navigated with a gamepad.
Now... there are some unfortunate people who are born with disabilities that prevent them from operating a car with a steering wheel. For those folks, there are alternate ways of driving a car. In the same spirit, there will be alternate ways for the functionally retarded, or the gamepad-phobic, to play Final Fantasy XIV.
Why don't some of you understand this? It is beyond my comprehension that there are people who are able to somehow operate a computer competently enough to navigate to this forum and then post something as inexcusably stupid as the shit I read on here.
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
It's not laziness, it's not being inept or intelligence "problems" and it's not because OMG IT'S NOT LIKE WOW. Stop with the stupid statements if you're going to side that having less control options are better. People only want familiarity with controls when a PC game is already extremely similar to hundreds of other MMOs out there. If you don't have any specific need to re-invent the controls for your game, you don't. Wanting MORE options instead of less, especially when the less option is a control method not standard on pc and an EXTRA purchase some people may have to make, is nothing but logical.
Again SE is most likely FIXING all of this, but that doesn't change the arguments from one side that think by being technologically inferior it is infact BETTER.
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
WASD+mouse control scheme is a standard for most PC games, regardless of genre. Familiarity with controls allows people to get into the game faster because most gamers have developed muscle memory for that particular control scheme. WASD+mouse is also more intuitive and allows for finer camera and character control.
A good control scheme is a must and there is no reason to not include a standard PC control scheme when releasing a game on the PC. It's kind of like releasing a PS3 game and having the control scheme done for the Wiimote.
Watch, soon as they make the controls standard we're gonna see some "WoW clone" threads .
But of course...there isn't much left for them to whine about, one of the few remaining topics is "WoW clone" now. Well there is of course a huge, "what, there aren't ! & ? to guide my every action" discussion yet to surface.
I've seen a few on other forums mention they refuse to play if there isn't ! & ? because its too difficult for them to figure it out on their own.
Who exactly is "them"? People who don't gush over SE or just anyone who disagrees with you these days?
I'm pretty sure he was referring to people who want any new MMO they go to, to basically be a re-skinned version of what they're already familiar with, so they don't have to step out of their comfort zone and, heaven forbid, get used to something different.
Though they'll get all bent out of shape with righteous indignation when it's basically stated to them, if you read between the lines of what some people are saying - or even what some people are flat out saying - what they want FFXIV to be is another WoW clone in a FF skin. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. Just read some of their posts.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
WASD+mouse control scheme is a standard for most PC games, regardless of genre. Familiarity with controls allows people to get into the game faster because most gamers have developed muscle memory for that particular control scheme. WASD+mouse is also more intuitive and allows for finer camera and character control.
A good control scheme is a must and there is no reason to not include a standard PC control scheme when releasing a game on the PC. It's kind of like releasing a PS3 game and having the control scheme done for the Wiimote.
Many people coming from console games and not used to PC Gaming had to get used to WASD/Mouse controls, *or* click-to-move, and a number of them had a difficult time with it, arguing that the game should have better gamepad controls. Those who took the time to bother, got used to the new control system and can now play PC games just fine.
Many people weened on PC games through those - MMOS or otherwise - wiith click-to-move controls have had a difficult time getting used to WASD/Mouse and, in various cases, have argued that the game should support click-to-move as well. Those who took the time to bother, got used to it and now can play either style just fine.
Many people weened on PC games via the WASD/Mouse setup have complained that click-to-move is too unintuitive and annoying and a number have argued that "because it's a PC game it should have WASD/Mouse controls". Others have simply taken the time to get used to the new controls and are doing just fine.
If people used to point-to-click can get used to WASD/Mouse, and people used to WASD/Mouse can get used to click-to-move, and people used to gamepads can get used to either PC control setup, then I think people can "cope" with getting used to whatever differences SE will have in XIV's control system, assuming it's not a straight-forward WASD/Mouse setup.
Or they can just keep complaining about it and not even give it a chance.
There is no rule that states "If you are making a PC game, you must use one of these pre-defined control setups. You must not use anything different".
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Hay, Toyota has a new line of cars coming out for 2011, What I've seen so far is that most can't test drive them, only a select few. They come with milk creates for seats that would work just fine. If you can find a nice message board, I'm sure you will be able to find some good aftermarket web sites for seats. Because the cars are real nice !
OK, I get your point that they are working on the keyboard+mouse issue. I get your point that it's still in bata !
But don't you think its getting a little late for this to EVEN BE AN ISSUE !............Here on mmorpg.com I see a list of about 200 mmo's. I've played most like many of you. Of the ones I've played you have two standard styles of play WASD, and point and click. Both styles work fine, however WASD is by far the perferd method. Now before 3 or 4 of you try and chew my head off (and yes, it's only 3 or 4 of you posting so far) I know what your gonna say, why does Square Enix need to be standard..Right ?.. Well they don't have to !.... BUT, and I say BUT Final Fantasy 11 really sucked as far as control, for millions of players. Thank God that game sold for only $10 for the past five years, because it ended up in the garbage can after only a few days of play for most.
This is different. FF XIV will be displayed to the public across the world at 50 or 60 dollars. With an est.rel of 09/22/10 they better get it right and quick, even to the point of the bata testers will have to forget everything they feel comfortable of what they learned and toss it out the window, as for how to control movement. Do you really think the devs are really gonna make such a radical change in bata, with launch a little more than a month away....I hope so, WHY :
Because I'm not closed minded and just thinking of me and 1500 others. I'm trying to look out for the entire million, that will be in the return lines..... So to make a long story short....Please don't just think about your self !
,
Can you please provide *one* link - just one - to back up any of what you just spewed out there?
All I see is, like your previous posts, a lot of hysterical ranting, hyperbole, and throwing around of random, arbitrary numbers that, in some cases, don't even come close to reality and in others seem simply pulled out of thin air.
Please provide sources that show FFXI has sold for $10 for the past 5 years - Including expansions and "Collection" packs.
Please cite your source for saying 1500 people are fine with FFXIV's controls - which we, incidentally, don't even know what they'll be in the final version yet, since SE is still making modifications to them - in response to player feedback, no less. So that's a pointless argument from the word go.
Please cite your reference to the "million others" you speak of?
Please cite your reference that shows why it's "too late for them to be addressing the controls", especially when live MMOs have had their control schemes altered and fine-tuned well after their launch.
If you want people to take your arguments seriously, then put some effort into making a serious, coherent argument.
... and I'd rather like to not feel the need to facepalm every time I read one of your replies.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
SE already said "OK we will give you better mouse controls" or somethin around those lines.Keyboard works perfectly,just need keybinds.Is why is a real beta, to make thins better,THIS WAS NOT A COMERCIAL BETA.
So whats the point of this discussion, i fail to see it.Your point have already been made on the beta site.This is just repeating the same shit again and again. Cant people just wait until next beta ?.Seems to me is just a troll crying a river over somethin thats already under control, or so have SE said.If they fail to meet your expectations , then dont buy the game . Is really hard to explain to peeps that SE does not work the same way your normal MMO company would.I already made a thread based on that and that only.Im really tired of trying to explain it , so ill go with the fanboy statment.
If you dont like it , go away.Theres plenty of other new games coming up soon.Flame on.
Edit: if you whant to know more about how SE works please refer to this thread, even tought they ARE fixing this problem at hand in particular.
SE already said "OK we will give you better mouse controls" or somethin around those lines.Keyboard works perfectly,just need keybinds.Is why is a real beta, to make thins better,THIS WAS NOT A COMERCIAL BETA.
Sadly, that's already been explained to the OP, but he found that to be an unacceptable response as well, stating that it shouldn't have to be patched in at all. So I guess all of us in touch with reality and reason need to step up our game! The OP will have none of it!!
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I played FFXI with keyboard and mouse and NEVER had a problem apart of maybe sometimes if you wanted to turn camera without turning your character but compact worked perfectly fine for those that preferred a keyboard and mouse then gamepad.
FFXIV next beta will improve mouse controls and no one knows how will they be making these threads is pointless till you know to what it was changed into.
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
WASD+mouse control scheme is a standard for most PC games, regardless of genre. Familiarity with controls allows people to get into the game faster because most gamers have developed muscle memory for that particular control scheme. WASD+mouse is also more intuitive and allows for finer camera and character control.
A good control scheme is a must and there is no reason to not include a standard PC control scheme when releasing a game on the PC. It's kind of like releasing a PS3 game and having the control scheme done for the Wiimote.
Many people coming from console games and not used to PC Gaming had to get used to WASD/Mouse controls, *or* click-to-move, and a number of them had a difficult time with it, arguing that the game should have better gamepad controls. Those who took the time to bother, got used to the new control system and can now play PC games just fine.
Many people weened on PC games through those - MMOS or otherwise - wiith click-to-move controls have had a difficult time getting used to WASD/Mouse and, in various cases, have argued that the game should support click-to-move as well. Those who took the time to bother, got used to it and now can play either style just fine.
Many people weened on PC games via the WASD/Mouse setup have complained that click-to-move is too unintuitive and annoying and a number have argued that "because it's a PC game it should have WASD/Mouse controls". Others have simply taken the time to get used to the new controls and are doing just fine.
If people used to point-to-click can get used to WASD/Mouse, and people used to WASD/Mouse can get used to click-to-move, and people used to gamepads can get used to either PC control setup, then I think people can "cope" with getting used to whatever differences SE will have in XIV's control system, assuming it's not a straight-forward WASD/Mouse setup.
Or they can just keep complaining about it and not even give it a chance.
There is no rule that states "If you are making a PC game, you must use one of these pre-defined control setups. You must not use anything different".
It's understandable, since they are coming to a new system. That's completely different. I wouldn't expect to have Playstation 3 games to utilize WASD + mouse controls.
There are a few different control schemes on the PC but the WASD + mouse is by far the most widespread and the most standardized control scheme. As far is there being a rule, did you ever see that "Games for Windows" crap on some game boxes?
People don't need to cope with anything. This is a video game, not a job. If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing.
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
WASD+mouse control scheme is a standard for most PC games, regardless of genre. Familiarity with controls allows people to get into the game faster because most gamers have developed muscle memory for that particular control scheme. WASD+mouse is also more intuitive and allows for finer camera and character control.
A good control scheme is a must and there is no reason to not include a standard PC control scheme when releasing a game on the PC. It's kind of like releasing a PS3 game and having the control scheme done for the Wiimote.
Many people coming from console games and not used to PC Gaming had to get used to WASD/Mouse controls, *or* click-to-move, and a number of them had a difficult time with it, arguing that the game should have better gamepad controls. Those who took the time to bother, got used to the new control system and can now play PC games just fine.
Many people weened on PC games through those - MMOS or otherwise - wiith click-to-move controls have had a difficult time getting used to WASD/Mouse and, in various cases, have argued that the game should support click-to-move as well. Those who took the time to bother, got used to it and now can play either style just fine.
Many people weened on PC games via the WASD/Mouse setup have complained that click-to-move is too unintuitive and annoying and a number have argued that "because it's a PC game it should have WASD/Mouse controls". Others have simply taken the time to get used to the new controls and are doing just fine.
If people used to point-to-click can get used to WASD/Mouse, and people used to WASD/Mouse can get used to click-to-move, and people used to gamepads can get used to either PC control setup, then I think people can "cope" with getting used to whatever differences SE will have in XIV's control system, assuming it's not a straight-forward WASD/Mouse setup.
Or they can just keep complaining about it and not even give it a chance.
There is no rule that states "If you are making a PC game, you must use one of these pre-defined control setups. You must not use anything different".
It's understandable, since they are coming to a new system. That's completely different. I wouldn't expect to have Playstation 3 games to utilize WASD + mouse controls.
There are a few different control schemes on the PC but the WASD + mouse is by far the most widespread and the most standardized control scheme. As far is there being a rule, did you ever see that "Games for Windows" crap on some game boxes?
People don't need to cope with anything. This is a video game, not a job. If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing.
Ok I could sum up my entire point with your last line :
"" If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing ""
That statement will be after the fact, after millions had already paid for it. It will not have a florescent orange sticker telling them to go out and buy a game pad too !
The problem is that if they don't fix the controls, UN SUSPECTING people will find this game un desirable. And Most will disregard it, and waist their money. Have you ever been in a video game store and see a person or even a family reading the back of these games that you know are bad ?....Well I have, games like Champions Online, Vanguard, Age of Conan, the box is NOT GONNA SAY OUR GAME SUCKS. It will have all the fluff it can.
I'm not saying that they will not fix the controls, in fact I'm not sure how bad it really is now. I'm not in Bata...What I am saying is it must run good with a keyboard and mouse. ANYTHING ELSE IS UN ACCEPTABLE. Or millions will get screwed.
You people sticking up for anything less are selfish, and only thinking of yourself, and some others to make a community for yourself.
The difference between this post and all others post about the controls is that I'm saying they MUST fix them. I'm not talking about what I like and don't like, I'm talking about millions of others. That is why I say they MUST fix the controls.
I really don't get PC gamers that don't have a gamepad in their PC. It doesn't cost much more buying a decent gamepad than buying a decent mouse, neither it's any harder to install. And some games play much better with a gamepad than keyboard+mouse. Mostly action games ok, but it's really worth it.
Keyboard+mouse is actually office equipment. It's not a coincidence it's called "keyboard" instead of "gameboard"...
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
It is so simple to allow players to define keys and offer several default key set-ups (just see loads of FPSers) it just seems really silly to even take a stand on: "Our way or don't bother playing". So much time, effort and money to create an MMO, so little time to do the controls.
Just offer the players both and the ability to redefine the keys... To do anything else just seems silly.
Ok I could sum up my entire point with your last line :
"" If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing ""
That statement will be after the fact, after millions had already paid for it. It will not have a florescent orange sticker telling them to go out and buy a game pad too !
The problem is that if they don't fix the controls, UN SUSPECTING people will find this game un desirable. And Most will disregard it, and waist their money. Have you ever been in a video game store and see a person or even a family reading the back of these games that you know are bad ?....Well I have, games like Champions Online, Vanguard, Age of Conan, the box is NOT GONNA SAY OUR GAME SUCKS. It will have all the fluff it can.
I'm not saying that they will not fix the controls, in fact I'm not sure how bad it really is now. I'm not in Bata...What I am saying is it must run good with a keyboard and mouse. ANYTHING ELSE IS UN ACCEPTABLE. Or millions will get screwed.
You people sticking up for anything less are selfish, and only thinking of yourself, and some others to make a community for yourself.
The difference between this post and all others post about the controls is that I'm saying they MUST fix them. I'm not talking about what I like and don't like, I'm talking about millions of others. That is why I say they MUST fix the controls.
So basicly your saying you heard that the game is unplayable with a keyboard/ mouse, and that millions wont be able TO PLAY becouse if they cant MOVE THE CAMERA with the mouse then the game sucks.Please....
Again, get your facts right, and read not only what you whant to , but what is given to you as well instead.
SE is not hiding anythin on fluff like you said , instead they already listened and already making the neccesary changes without changing to much their concept of the game, you dont listen well aparently when people tells you facts.At least as in what direction this problem is heading.
All you are doing is the tipical kid that asked for somethin and they said OK, but you go with the childish cry rolling on the floor , but but i whant it now , WAAAAAAAAAAAA,.
You know what, i hope they dont fix the mouse, they leave exactly as it is , so i dont have to play on the same game as lite kids that cry all over becouse then cant move a damn camera with a mouse , becouse , and gets your facts right , is the ONLY THIN that on beta stage 2 had problems with the K/M set up.
Sorry if i came in to harsh but honestly, I agree with you , is a small issue that should be fixed( even tought imo its NOT GAME BREAKER) . They are fixing it,now stfu.
I really don't get PC gamers that don't have a gamepad in their PC. It doesn't cost much more buying a decent gamepad than buying a decent mouse, neither it's any harder to install. And some games play much better with a gamepad than keyboard+mouse. Mostly action games ok, but it's really worth it.
Keyboard+mouse is actually office equipment. It's not a coincidence it's called "keyboard" instead of "gameboard"...
It's not about not having, as i'm more than sure everyone has a gamepad they can use. It's about having the option to choose which one we want to use.
I'm perfectly comfortable with a gamepad, but i'd prefer to use my n52te + naga.
Speaking of which, any news on phase 3 updates pertaining to this discussion?
I really don't get PC gamers that don't have a gamepad in their PC. It doesn't cost much more buying a decent gamepad than buying a decent mouse, neither it's any harder to install. And some games play much better with a gamepad than keyboard+mouse. Mostly action games ok, but it's really worth it.
Keyboard+mouse is actually office equipment. It's not a coincidence it's called "keyboard" instead of "gameboard"...
It's not about not having, as i'm more than sure everyone has a gamepad they can use. It's about having the option to choose which one we want to use.
I'm perfectly comfortable with a gamepad, but i'd prefer to use my n52te + naga.
Speaking of which, any news on phase 3 updates pertaining to this discussion?
Nothin so far , apart from an updated client today.Should see beta 3 sometime this week or so i think.
Usually after update comes the day for next beta stage , but so far nuthin.
ok ok cause its 7am and i havent slept im going to suggest the most important control system FF has to have...
steering wheel control.... i expect to be-able to use your standard NFS setup to drive my chocobo all over while making vrrm sounds....
seriously im amazed this topic is 7pages long... from what i have read, YES it has it. YES they are working on it to make sure it works correctly.
i fail to see the issue here. sure you would assume the controls are the first thing, but i tend to assume when it comes to FF the game starts out as a PS game then they port it over (yes i know its totally diffrent but who knows they could brain storm it that way lol)
so as long as the controls are in, and working where is the issue??
now i must be off to make Vrrm sound effects while i get a drink
No i didn't read the post but i know that ffxi worked so much better without using the mouse. I loved the way FFXi controls were set up actually i have been disappointed in every other games controls to this day because i loved that i could use my keyboard entirely and it was so much easier for me to use macros and stuff in FFXI than any other game.
Every game i get i try and set my camera movment up to my arrow keys but most games don't seem to let you set the controls up like that.
To me it was the easiest system to use. I could literally use just my mouse or just my keyboard if i wanted.
You guys realize that mice were outlawed in Japan to lower spread of disease? Show a little sensitivity and have patience while they build it in for the western audience.
If FF XIV doesn't at least have WASD/mouse as an option, it will be the main reason I do not play it. I was able to stand about 10 minutes of gameplay with the controls for FF XI, before I uninstalled it. I don't think people are lazy for not spending the time to learn a new control system on a PC, but in that regard MMO's are a lot more popular now than they were when FFXI was released. And most MMO's are played on a PC with WASD/mouse controls. Only time will tell what the controls eventually are, but I will be holding my hard earned cash until I know.
Comments
I was trying to help him formulate a better arguement and give him skills that he can use in a scholarly and professional environment. I like trying to spread knowledge.
Obviously, I knew the answer. But thanks for your post, as it reiterates what I was saying from the start.
They did include it and are fixing it further as we speak. The OP seems to brain hemorrhage when he types.
I don't get it...
...are people too lazy to take the time to learn a new control scheme for a new game or what?
PLAYING: NOTHING!!!
PLAYED:FFXI, LotRO, AoC, WAR, DDO, Megaten, Wurm, Rohan, Mabinogi, RoM
WAITING FOR: Dust 514
For your infomation the controls didnt suck on FFXI thats your opinion , i and alot of others enjoyed the controls , just because you was a tool and couldnt use them does mean everyone else couldnt.
I made this analogy in another (equally stupid) thread, and I will make it again here:
Much like a car is deigned to be driven using a steering wheel, Final Fantasy XIV is designed to be played using a gamepad. In case you haven't been paying attention, or are borderline retarded, Final Fantasy XIV is being developed for the Playstation 3 console. THEREFORE, it must be playable with a gamepad. THEREFORE, the entire game has to be designed with gamepads in mind. THEREFORE, it will have certain UI elements that are different from your standard MMO because the UI has to be navigated with a gamepad.
Now... there are some unfortunate people who are born with disabilities that prevent them from operating a car with a steering wheel. For those folks, there are alternate ways of driving a car. In the same spirit, there will be alternate ways for the functionally retarded, or the gamepad-phobic, to play Final Fantasy XIV.
Why don't some of you understand this? It is beyond my comprehension that there are people who are able to somehow operate a computer competently enough to navigate to this forum and then post something as inexcusably stupid as the shit I read on here.
It's not laziness, it's not being inept or intelligence "problems" and it's not because OMG IT'S NOT LIKE WOW. Stop with the stupid statements if you're going to side that having less control options are better. People only want familiarity with controls when a PC game is already extremely similar to hundreds of other MMOs out there. If you don't have any specific need to re-invent the controls for your game, you don't. Wanting MORE options instead of less, especially when the less option is a control method not standard on pc and an EXTRA purchase some people may have to make, is nothing but logical.
Again SE is most likely FIXING all of this, but that doesn't change the arguments from one side that think by being technologically inferior it is infact BETTER.
WASD+mouse control scheme is a standard for most PC games, regardless of genre. Familiarity with controls allows people to get into the game faster because most gamers have developed muscle memory for that particular control scheme. WASD+mouse is also more intuitive and allows for finer camera and character control.
A good control scheme is a must and there is no reason to not include a standard PC control scheme when releasing a game on the PC. It's kind of like releasing a PS3 game and having the control scheme done for the Wiimote.
I'm pretty sure he was referring to people who want any new MMO they go to, to basically be a re-skinned version of what they're already familiar with, so they don't have to step out of their comfort zone and, heaven forbid, get used to something different.
Though they'll get all bent out of shape with righteous indignation when it's basically stated to them, if you read between the lines of what some people are saying - or even what some people are flat out saying - what they want FFXIV to be is another WoW clone in a FF skin. It doesn't take a rocket scientist to see it. Just read some of their posts.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Many people coming from console games and not used to PC Gaming had to get used to WASD/Mouse controls, *or* click-to-move, and a number of them had a difficult time with it, arguing that the game should have better gamepad controls. Those who took the time to bother, got used to the new control system and can now play PC games just fine.
Many people weened on PC games through those - MMOS or otherwise - wiith click-to-move controls have had a difficult time getting used to WASD/Mouse and, in various cases, have argued that the game should support click-to-move as well. Those who took the time to bother, got used to it and now can play either style just fine.
Many people weened on PC games via the WASD/Mouse setup have complained that click-to-move is too unintuitive and annoying and a number have argued that "because it's a PC game it should have WASD/Mouse controls". Others have simply taken the time to get used to the new controls and are doing just fine.
If people used to point-to-click can get used to WASD/Mouse, and people used to WASD/Mouse can get used to click-to-move, and people used to gamepads can get used to either PC control setup, then I think people can "cope" with getting used to whatever differences SE will have in XIV's control system, assuming it's not a straight-forward WASD/Mouse setup.
Or they can just keep complaining about it and not even give it a chance.
There is no rule that states "If you are making a PC game, you must use one of these pre-defined control setups. You must not use anything different".
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Can you please provide *one* link - just one - to back up any of what you just spewed out there?
All I see is, like your previous posts, a lot of hysterical ranting, hyperbole, and throwing around of random, arbitrary numbers that, in some cases, don't even come close to reality and in others seem simply pulled out of thin air.
Please provide sources that show FFXI has sold for $10 for the past 5 years - Including expansions and "Collection" packs.
Please cite your source for saying 1500 people are fine with FFXIV's controls - which we, incidentally, don't even know what they'll be in the final version yet, since SE is still making modifications to them - in response to player feedback, no less. So that's a pointless argument from the word go.
Please cite your reference to the "million others" you speak of?
Please cite your reference that shows why it's "too late for them to be addressing the controls", especially when live MMOs have had their control schemes altered and fine-tuned well after their launch.
If you want people to take your arguments seriously, then put some effort into making a serious, coherent argument.
... and I'd rather like to not feel the need to facepalm every time I read one of your replies.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
This thread is pointless.
SE already said "OK we will give you better mouse controls" or somethin around those lines.Keyboard works perfectly,just need keybinds.Is why is a real beta, to make thins better,THIS WAS NOT A COMERCIAL BETA.
So whats the point of this discussion, i fail to see it.Your point have already been made on the beta site.This is just repeating the same shit again and again. Cant people just wait until next beta ?.Seems to me is just a troll crying a river over somethin thats already under control, or so have SE said.If they fail to meet your expectations , then dont buy the game . Is really hard to explain to peeps that SE does not work the same way your normal MMO company would.I already made a thread based on that and that only.Im really tired of trying to explain it , so ill go with the fanboy statment.
If you dont like it , go away.Theres plenty of other new games coming up soon.Flame on.
Edit: if you whant to know more about how SE works please refer to this thread, even tought they ARE fixing this problem at hand in particular.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/285704/MMOs-industry-and-FFXIV.html
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I played FFXI with keyboard and mouse and NEVER had a problem apart of maybe sometimes if you wanted to turn camera without turning your character but compact worked perfectly fine for those that preferred a keyboard and mouse then gamepad.
FFXIV next beta will improve mouse controls and no one knows how will they be making these threads is pointless till you know to what it was changed into.
It's understandable, since they are coming to a new system. That's completely different. I wouldn't expect to have Playstation 3 games to utilize WASD + mouse controls.
There are a few different control schemes on the PC but the WASD + mouse is by far the most widespread and the most standardized control scheme. As far is there being a rule, did you ever see that "Games for Windows" crap on some game boxes?
People don't need to cope with anything. This is a video game, not a job. If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing.
Ok I could sum up my entire point with your last line :
"" If SE wants to attract customers, it is up to them to make the game appealing ""
That statement will be after the fact, after millions had already paid for it. It will not have a florescent orange sticker telling them to go out and buy a game pad too !
The problem is that if they don't fix the controls, UN SUSPECTING people will find this game un desirable. And Most will disregard it, and waist their money. Have you ever been in a video game store and see a person or even a family reading the back of these games that you know are bad ?....Well I have, games like Champions Online, Vanguard, Age of Conan, the box is NOT GONNA SAY OUR GAME SUCKS. It will have all the fluff it can.
I'm not saying that they will not fix the controls, in fact I'm not sure how bad it really is now. I'm not in Bata...What I am saying is it must run good with a keyboard and mouse. ANYTHING ELSE IS UN ACCEPTABLE. Or millions will get screwed.
You people sticking up for anything less are selfish, and only thinking of yourself, and some others to make a community for yourself.
The difference between this post and all others post about the controls is that I'm saying they MUST fix them. I'm not talking about what I like and don't like, I'm talking about millions of others. That is why I say they MUST fix the controls.
I really don't get PC gamers that don't have a gamepad in their PC. It doesn't cost much more buying a decent gamepad than buying a decent mouse, neither it's any harder to install. And some games play much better with a gamepad than keyboard+mouse. Mostly action games ok, but it's really worth it.
Keyboard+mouse is actually office equipment. It's not a coincidence it's called "keyboard" instead of "gameboard"...
"Traditionally, massively multiplier online games have been about three basic gameplay pillars combat, exploration and character progression. In Alganon, in addition to these we've added the fourth pillar to the equation: Copy & Paste."
It is so simple to allow players to define keys and offer several default key set-ups (just see loads of FPSers) it just seems really silly to even take a stand on: "Our way or don't bother playing". So much time, effort and money to create an MMO, so little time to do the controls.
Just offer the players both and the ability to redefine the keys... To do anything else just seems silly.
So basicly your saying you heard that the game is unplayable with a keyboard/ mouse, and that millions wont be able TO PLAY becouse if they cant MOVE THE CAMERA with the mouse then the game sucks.Please....
Again, get your facts right, and read not only what you whant to , but what is given to you as well instead.
SE is not hiding anythin on fluff like you said , instead they already listened and already making the neccesary changes without changing to much their concept of the game, you dont listen well aparently when people tells you facts.At least as in what direction this problem is heading.
All you are doing is the tipical kid that asked for somethin and they said OK, but you go with the childish cry rolling on the floor , but but i whant it now , WAAAAAAAAAAAA,.
You know what, i hope they dont fix the mouse, they leave exactly as it is , so i dont have to play on the same game as lite kids that cry all over becouse then cant move a damn camera with a mouse , becouse , and gets your facts right , is the ONLY THIN that on beta stage 2 had problems with the K/M set up.
Sorry if i came in to harsh but honestly, I agree with you , is a small issue that should be fixed( even tought imo its NOT GAME BREAKER) . They are fixing it,now stfu.
It's not about not having, as i'm more than sure everyone has a gamepad they can use. It's about having the option to choose which one we want to use.
I'm perfectly comfortable with a gamepad, but i'd prefer to use my n52te + naga.
Speaking of which, any news on phase 3 updates pertaining to this discussion?
Nothin so far , apart from an updated client today.Should see beta 3 sometime this week or so i think.
Usually after update comes the day for next beta stage , but so far nuthin.
ok ok cause its 7am and i havent slept im going to suggest the most important control system FF has to have...
steering wheel control.... i expect to be-able to use your standard NFS setup to drive my chocobo all over while making vrrm sounds....
seriously im amazed this topic is 7pages long... from what i have read, YES it has it. YES they are working on it to make sure it works correctly.
i fail to see the issue here. sure you would assume the controls are the first thing, but i tend to assume when it comes to FF the game starts out as a PS game then they port it over (yes i know its totally diffrent but who knows they could brain storm it that way lol)
so as long as the controls are in, and working where is the issue??
now i must be off to make Vrrm sound effects while i get a drink
No i didn't read the post but i know that ffxi worked so much better without using the mouse. I loved the way FFXi controls were set up actually i have been disappointed in every other games controls to this day because i loved that i could use my keyboard entirely and it was so much easier for me to use macros and stuff in FFXI than any other game.
Every game i get i try and set my camera movment up to my arrow keys but most games don't seem to let you set the controls up like that.
To me it was the easiest system to use. I could literally use just my mouse or just my keyboard if i wanted.
You guys realize that mice were outlawed in Japan to lower spread of disease? Show a little sensitivity and have patience while they build it in for the western audience.
Nah man you know what? There is no such control scheme. It could be easily implemented too.
The developers are just lazy, that's what this is all about.
If FF XIV doesn't at least have WASD/mouse as an option, it will be the main reason I do not play it. I was able to stand about 10 minutes of gameplay with the controls for FF XI, before I uninstalled it. I don't think people are lazy for not spending the time to learn a new control system on a PC, but in that regard MMO's are a lot more popular now than they were when FFXI was released. And most MMO's are played on a PC with WASD/mouse controls. Only time will tell what the controls eventually are, but I will be holding my hard earned cash until I know.