Because I have read and seen several videos of this game but I have failed to find anything about this game that would make it a good MMORPG. Single player yeah, nice storylines, good gfx, Starwars, light-sabres. Yeah all good for a single player game.
But what feature(s) will make it a good MMORPG? Because, right now, the game seems awfully like Star Trek Online in both that it is based on a huge IP and that it seems to be a single player game (or multiplayer lobby game) with a subscription fee.
I'm seeing the same things and think it will only be a step above STO. I can't invision any replayability past the first couple months after viewing all the movies and cuts scenes. I don't even think I'd buy it if it was a single player game, it really just looks like a mix of STO and WoW.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
Because I have read and seen several videos of this game but I have failed to find anything about this game that would make it a good MMORPG. Single player yeah, nice storylines, good gfx, Starwars, light-sabres. Yeah all good for a single player game.
But what feature(s) will make it a good MMORPG? Because, right now, the game seems awfully like Star Trek Online in both that it is based on a huge IP and that it seems to be a single player game (or multiplayer lobby game) with a subscription fee.
I'm seeing the same things and think it will only be a step above STO. I can't invision any replayability past the first couple months after viewing all the movies and cuts scenes. I don't even think I'd buy it if it was a single player game, it really just looks like a mix of STO and WoW.
We all see things sometimes. I usually after drinking some beer. But what I find important is, what if the game doesnt classify as MMORPG according to the MMORPGlable police? Does it get disqualified?
Apart from that you both sound a little dilusional if you compare it to STO. The singleplayer topic regarding SW:TOR is a little outdated now with all the information that has been released.
No one here can give you the answers besides repeating what has been said in interviews or shown in videos.
Originally posted by Anubisan Lets see... Huge open world - Check Exploration - Check Questing - Check Crafting - Check Player housing (in the ships) - Check Grouping - Check PvP - Check Guilds - Check Dungeons - Check Raids - Check Sounds like a reasonably standard MMORPG to me. And then of course there is the addition of the focus on story which no one has really done before. As for your comment about STO... are you kidding? The difference in quality and polish between Cryptic and Bioware is like comparing KFC to some of the best fine-dining in the world.
I think I just puked in my mouth, a lot. Some of you Bioware fanbois are cute, real cute, but it's quite disgusting.
You know whats more disgusting though? Cryptic fanboys.
Where are you my little qtpie? You automatically assumed I was a Cryptic fanboy because I was making fun of SWTOR fanbois, I hate all forms of fanboism. Then when you saw that I wasn't a cryptic fanboy, you bailed out on the forum war, you're such a qtpie.
What makes this game a good MMORPG? What makes everyone so sure Bioware has hit another home run out of the ballpark? What makes Star Wars: The Old Republic the BEST MMORPG ever made?
The answer:
It hasn't been released yet.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
No - only limited movement in heavily boundaried zones
Questing - Check
What mmorpg doesn't have quests?
Crafting - Check
Bolted-on afterthought - tell me, what kind of a chef is your Sith Inquisitor going to be?
Player housing (in the ships) - Check
Limited customisation of preset interiors - you can't choose your 'home'
Grouping - Check
Grouping is not intrinisc to the game or your story
PvP - Check
Combat seems static and limited - god knows what PVP will be like
Guilds - Check
Bioware has not described how these will work at all.
Dungeons - Check
Likely to be one of the most heavily instanced games ever.
Raids - Check
I wonder if Raids will be as sophisticated and fun and complex as the 'space' aspect?
Sounds like a reasonably standard MMORPG to me. And then of course there is the addition of the focus on story which no one has really done before. As for your comment about STO... are you kidding? The difference in quality and polish between Cryptic and Bioware is like comparing KFC to some of the best fine-dining in the world.
yyup is hard to say what makes it good when you can't play it yet. might wanna ask this question after the game is released.
The question is about the main features and mechanics of the game rather than the detailed game play and I assume most info regarding the former has already been released by now.
Major, fundamental game mechanics is not something that you put in so late in the development cycle.
Your question has been answered in several posts already now, aspects that regular MMO's have that SW:TOR will also have. You have just chosen to ignore them. Frankly it's silly to believe that SW:TOR will be any less a MMO than WAR, AoC, LotrO and WoW were or that FFXIV, TERA and RIFT will be.
Bioware and ANet both have the policy to not talk about game aspects that aren't fully workable or made it into the game yet. And both companies haven't talked about all the game mechanics yet, even if both their games will be released in 2011.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Huge open world - Check nope it's going to be instanced from what it looks like.
Nope, it's going to be huge open worlds, you should read the interviews better, they stated it again and again.
Exploration - Check if it's instanced then no.
It's huge open worlds, indications are they will be vaster than most MMO worlds right now' exploration will be encouraged.
Questing - Check we all know that there will be questing that doesn't make an mmorpg
Now you're being silly, questing has been one of the main aspects in all MMO's, Bioware even intend to enhance them to be more meaningful and immersive.
Crafting - Check they haven't shown anything and till they do this should be no
Player housing (in the ships) - Check i wouldn't call that housing swg had housing.
Being stubborn again: player housing will have more meaning in SW:TOR, since it's also your base of command and the place from where you start your travels to other places. I'd call it player housing +, as it should be in more MMO's.
Grouping - Check but it's mostly solo so i don't think anyone will use this
Grouping is encouraged, also mentioned again and again in interviews.
For the rest, it's all undetermined yet, since we haven't played the full beta yet, and they haven't revealed detailed info about all game aspects yet.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You guys are just being silly at this point. All of your comments in response to my checklist are in direct contradiction with what Bioware has told the community time and time again. Its obvious you have already made up your mind not to like the game and you don't want to listen to anything positive about it... even if it is from the horse's mouth.
Bioware has already stated repeatedly that:
- The game features huge open worlds and is not overly instanced.
- A big emphasis has been put on making crafting integral to the gaming experience.
- Grouping is highly encouraged.
- Guilds confirmed.
- PVP confirmed.
- Housing in player ships confirmed (and that is far better than what we get in most MMOs).
It's like you guys just refuse to believe anything the developers say. Are you truly that jaded? If so, I feel sorry for you...
@ eyeswideopen - Who here said the game would be the greatest MMO ever? All we have been saying is that it might be a good game and we aren't writing it off automatically like some of you. At least some of us are discussing the actual announced features rather than ignoring everything the developer announces about it.
I really don't think its healthy to be as negative as a lot of you are...
@ eyeswideopen - Who here said the game would be the greatest MMO ever? All we have been saying is that it might be a good game and we aren't writing it off automatically like some of you. At least some of us are discussing the actual announced features rather than ignoring everything the developer announces about it.
I really don't think its healthy to be as negative as a lot of you are...
I don't recall aiming that at any one particular person.
And the fact remains, EVERY mmo is the greatest mmo since the beginning of time to some people when all they can go by is what the devs say along with their own increasingly ridiculous speculation....until it's released and the reality doesn't match the hype; and in some cases doesn't even match the devs description 3 days before the launch.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
You guys are just being silly at this point. All of your comments in response to my checklist are in direct contradiction with what Bioware has told the community time and time again. Its obvious you have already made up your mind not to like the game and you don't want to listen to anything positive about it... even if it is from the horse's mouth.
Bioware has already stated repeatedly that:
- The game features huge open worlds and is not overly instanced.
- A big emphasis has been put on making crafting integral to the gaming experience.
- Grouping is highly encouraged.
- Guilds confirmed.
- PVP confirmed.
- Housing in player ships confirmed (and that is far better than what we get in most MMOs).
It's like you guys just refuse to believe anything the developers say. Are you truly that jaded? If so, I feel sorry for you...
@ eyeswideopen - Who here said the game would be the greatest MMO ever? All we have been saying is that it might be a good game and we aren't writing it off automatically like some of you. At least some of us are discussing the actual announced features rather than ignoring everything the developer announces about it.
I really don't think its healthy to be as negative as a lot of you are...
and why should we trust what the devs have to say at this point? how many mmos have come out that are just like the devs said they would be? i can think of only a handfull eve being the top of that list. better still the tor devs in my eyes lied to us about space in tor. besides that.
have they shown the huge open worlds? no they have only shown little 10 second videos or a screen shot or two.
have they shown anything with crafting? no all they have shown is loot from mobs.
they have shown very little with player grouping and nothing with guilds.
have they shown anything with pvp? they talked about battlefields but that's it and they haven't full talked about pvp.
and thus far they haven't shown anything really with the ships. all we know is that the ships are for the tunnel shooter game.
do i trust the devs? not anymore not after we have been burned by devs so much in the past. don't believe me go over to the fringe and they have a whole list of who has lied with games.
Because I have read and seen several videos of this game but I have failed to find anything about this game that would make it a good MMORPG. Single player yeah, nice storylines, good gfx, Starwars, light-sabres. Yeah all good for a single player game.
But what feature(s) will make it a good MMORPG? Because, right now, the game seems awfully like Star Trek Online in both that it is based on a huge IP and that it seems to be a single player game (or multiplayer lobby game) with a subscription fee.
To me, it seems a MMORPG will be good if it provides fun challenges (be them PvE or PvP) that urge players to group together in order to overcome them, We know there will be grouping, dungeons and raids, so we only don't know if they'll be FUN - and I think we'll only be able to see if that at launch. Other features may add to the game, but I don't think they'll make or beark it.
Sounds like a reasonably standard MMORPG to me. And then of course there is the addition of the focus on story which no one has really done before. As for your comment about STO... are you kidding? The difference in quality and polish between Cryptic and Bioware is like comparing KFC to some of the best fine-dining in the world.
I think I just puked in my mouth, a lot. Some of you Bioware fanbois are cute, real cute, but it's quite disgusting.
Lol @ the puking coming from someone playing Aion and Warhammer online.
You're a well known TOR hater on these boards so your post doesn't suprise me. But please tell us which of the features checked by Anubisan isn't a fact?
First and foremost, I don't play Warhammer anymore, it's the game I have logged on Xfire for the most hours, that's it. Lastly, I'm stuck playing GAION as I have a year sub's payed for until January 2011 and I'm not about to let my money go to waste, although I despise AION and I hate NcSoft. I will never again make the mistake of purchasing a sub based game based on hype, the IP, the gaming company, etc.; never again. Developers/Publishers lie and hype their games too much to "steal" players money, noticed how I emphasized the stealing part.. That is why I have a problem with the SWTOR hype+fanbois, I want this game to succeed but I'm seeing the same trends I have seen in the past 10+ years of me playing MMOs.
So let me get this straight....
You paid for a game UPFRONT for a yr, despite the fact it was a korean grinder that had mega hacking problems? Yet you have the audacity to call out folks for enjoying Bioware games?
When I feel screwed out of a box purchase, plus a 12 month subscription....then come talk to me. Otherwise I would suggest you get back to that "winning" Aion forum, and converse with the other 5 fans you are stuck with, due to pure stupidity on your part.
This is also read "A lack of thinking on your part doesnt constitute dealing with a troll on ours".
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
You paid for a game UPFRONT for a yr, despite the fact it was a korean grinder that had mega hacking problems? Yet you have the audacity to call out folks for enjoying Bioware games?
When I feel screwed out of a box purchase, plus a 12 month subscription....then come talk to me. Otherwise I would suggest you get back to that "winning" Aion forum, and converse with the other 5 fans you are stuck with, due to pure stupidity on your part.
This is also read "A lack of thinking on your part doesnt constitute dealing with a troll on ours".
i think lilwins has ended up bring up some very good points. remember aion was another wow clone that was going to be the next best thing and failed. and it is safe to say that we can all see this going on with tor as too many people are blindly following bioware.
make up your own mind look at the facts and hear out those of us who won't blindly follow.
Okay the thread was orginally about what makes this a good MMORPG? Which has been stated several times before why people think it will be good. As for if it will be better then some, that was not the question asked (and needed to be stated that way if that was what was intended to be asked instead)
As for believing what the developers says and whether we should or not. As the game isn't released yet, all you "can" go by is what the developers say. We got screen shots we got vids and we got interviews. Other then testers which are almost assuredly under NDA, so they don't count as a source of info, the only thing left is the devs. Bioware has alot at stake on their first MMO as a big company to on purposely make it bad.
As for saying that devs always overhype their product and never bring anything out as they say (IE missing features, glitches, change classes) ever looked at a single commercial? Take Mcdonalds for instance (i use that cause most people know this company) they say their burgers are 10 times better then the competition (they placed their deliciously staked burger in color right next to a toppled slop burger in black and white). Last time i had a burger from there it was bland and terriable tasting (and thats happened more then once at multiple locations). I had a burger at a another resturant that was 10 times better then theirs. So it's "every" company that does that, not just devs, it's called marketing. No company is gonna say, "yeah our product sucks and your most likely gonna get sick from it, but hey at least we aren't the competition that sells good burgers".
In short you can speculate, but to say someone else is wrong cause they listen to the devs when other companies have done the same thing is pointless. Thats like saying one person skipped out on their rent so you will to, so we better charge you an extra month just in case. You really have to take each company on their own merits. Bioware has proven they know how to make good games.
Dragon age, Jade empire, Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) Star wars knights of the old republic (1 and 2). Any of these games by "most" are considered good games. Now the making the game good isn't the question, it's if they can make their good game, into a good MMO. To determine if they are any good at doing that before they had a chance at all is unrealistic.
In my opinion, it will have a great storyline, with quests you do every now and then. Grouping is optional but not required. There will be instances where you can pvp but most likely they will be in areas that are desginated for it, no FFAs, sorta like how EQ 1 and 2 worked. I think the game will be like a lot of other mmos with the background changed and some different events. I'm really shooting for the great story and the alignment system (cause i'm a sucker for those, loved the fable games)
TL:DR version: question was asked and answered best as possible, all companies over-hype, part of marketing. Bioware has proven they can make good games, question is can they turn it into a MMO. Features i think will be in game: grouping, questing, pvp in designated areas. Love Alignment systems.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and views, they will most likely differ form yours.
PS: free cookie to anyone who gets through that wall of text.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Okay the thread was orginally about what makes this a good MMORPG? Which has been stated several times before why people think it will be good. As for if it will be better then some, that was not the question asked (and needed to be stated that way if that was what was intended to be asked instead)
As for believing what the developers says and whether we should or not. As the game isn't released yet, all you "can" go by is what the developers say. We got screen shots we got vids and we got interviews. Other then testers which are almost assuredly under NDA, so they don't count as a source of info, the only thing left is the devs. Bioware has alot at stake on their first MMO as a big company to on purposely make it bad.
As for saying that devs always overhype their product and never bring anything out as they say (IE missing features, glitches, change classes) ever looked at a single commercial? Take Mcdonalds for instance (i use that cause most people know this company) they say their burgers are 10 times better then the competition (they placed their deliciously staked burger in color right next to a toppled slop burger in black and white). Last time i had a burger from there it was bland and terriable tasting (and thats happened more then once at multiple locations). I had a burger at a another resturant that was 10 times better then theirs. So it's "every" company that does that, not just devs, it's called marketing. No company is gonna say, "yeah our product sucks and your most likely gonna get sick from it, but hey at least we aren't the competition that sells good burgers".
In short you can speculate, but to say someone else is wrong cause they listen to the devs when other companies have done the same thing is pointless. Thats like saying one person skipped out on their rent so you will to, so we better charge you an extra month just in case. You really have to take each company on their own merits. Bioware has proven they know how to make good games.
Dragon age, Jade empire, Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) Star wars knights of the old republic (1 and 2). Any of these games by "most" are considered good games. Now the making the game good isn't the question, it's if they can make their good game, into a good MMO. To determine if they are any good at doing that before they had a chance at all is unrealistic.
In my opinion, it will have a great storyline, with quests you do every now and then. Grouping is optional but not required. There will be instances where you can pvp but most likely they will be in areas that are desginated for it, no FFAs, sorta like how EQ 1 and 2 worked. I think the game will be like a lot of other mmos with the background changed and some different events. I'm really shooting for the great story and the alignment system (cause i'm a sucker for those, loved the fable games)
TL:DR version: question was asked and answered best as possible, all companies over-hype, part of marketing. Bioware has proven they can make good games, question is can they turn it into a MMO. Features i think will be in game: grouping, questing, pvp in designated areas. Love Alignment systems.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and views, they will most likely differ form yours.
PS: free cookie to anyone who gets through that wall of text.
Good post, and many here have also made good posts.
Many people refuse to believe what the developers state or what has been shown in videos. If they don't want to take the developers words, they are not currently in game testing, and they don't want to scour the internet to try and find game testing leaks or watch the game demos to see what the actual gameplay is like, then nothing will convince them. I don't agree with watching leaked videos, especially because game testing is such an early build that many things can change.
Altogether though its good to see at least some people are following this game closely enough to know what the feature list is and what this game has to offer. I find it interesting that people still believe that the game world will be small or instanced. It just goes to show you that there are as many people who blindly dismiss features and dislike the game as there are people that blindly follow the game.
Good lord, it's like some people ignore things the devs say on purpose.
Yes, because Jake Neri, Dallas Dickinson and Julio Torres made themselves such a great reputation for telling the truth when they were at SOE, didn't they now?
TL:DR version: question was asked and answered best as possible, all companies over-hype, part of marketing. Bioware has proven they can make good games, question is can they turn it into a MMO. Features i think will be in game: grouping, questing, pvp in designated areas. Love Alignment systems.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and views, they will most likely differ form yours.
PS: free cookie to anyone who gets through that wall of text.
Very good arguments in your post, it's like you said.
Ok, I want my cookie now
Bioware devs have said it. Demos have shown certain game aspects. Playtesters have confirmed some more stuff, like even the origin planets being huge.
While a reasonable amount of scepticism is healthy, to doubt everything that is revealed that isn't conform your belief or gut feeling is irrational.
I'm guessing some people have been following and believing the hype and been disappointed by other MMO's in the past, so now they cling to their mantra 'don't believe anything if it sounds like those other hypes, trust your gut'. But their gut hadn't done them a favor those other times too, right?
Me, I can be enthusiastic about games but I never followed any hype of any game. So I never felt bitter that a game wasn't what it or people claimed it to be beforehand, because I had a 'let's wait and see and experience it myself in open beta' attitude anyway.
That's why I could even enjoy MMO's like CO, Aion, AoC, LotrO and others for what they offered, not for what any hype or unrealistic expectations made it out to be. A stance I intend to keep doing for upcoming MMO's as GW2, SW:TOR, Rift and others as well.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Okay the thread was orginally about what makes this a good MMORPG? Which has been stated several times before why people think it will be good. As for if it will be better then some, that was not the question asked (and needed to be stated that way if that was what was intended to be asked instead) and so far it has been about what makes a great mmo.
As for believing what the developers says and whether we should or not. As the game isn't released yet, all you "can" go by is what the developers say. We got screen shots we got vids and we got interviews. Other then testers which are almost assuredly under NDA, so they don't count as a source of info, the only thing left is the devs. Bioware has alot at stake on their first MMO as a big company to on purposely make it bad. the tor devs are the same people who did lie to us about swg. this is biowares first mmorpg however for most of the team it's number two or three. many of them worked on swg some of them backed the nge. and they haven't shown off any real game play outside maybe a minute or two of video. it is their job to sell us on the game and timeline stories, comics, and no real game played showed doesn't make me think it's going to be good.
As for saying that devs always overhype their product and never bring anything out as they say (IE missing features, glitches, change classes) ever looked at a single commercial? Take Mcdonalds for instance (i use that cause most people know this company) they say their burgers are 10 times better then the competition (they placed their deliciously staked burger in color right next to a toppled slop burger in black and white). Last time i had a burger from there it was bland and terriable tasting (and thats happened more then once at multiple locations). I had a burger at a another resturant that was 10 times better then theirs. So it's "every" company that does that, not just devs, it's called marketing. No company is gonna say, "yeah our product sucks and your most likely gonna get sick from it, but hey at least we aren't the competition that sells good burgers". again it is the job of marketing to make you want what they are selling and this isn't the case with tor. like i said are some comics and a timeline video with some artwork what we want? show us gameplay show us pvp show us a crafting system that is what sells a game not the lastest dark horse tor comic about some random jedi
In short you can speculate, but to say someone else is wrong cause they listen to the devs when other companies have done the same thing is pointless. Thats like saying one person skipped out on their rent so you will to, so we better charge you an extra month just in case. You really have to take each company on their own merits. Bioware has proven they know how to make good games. really lets go over those games below.
Dragon age, Jade empire, Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) Star wars knights of the old republic (1 and 2). Any of these games by "most" are considered good games. Now the making the game good isn't the question, it's if they can make their good game, into a good MMO. To determine if they are any good at doing that before they had a chance at all is unrealistic. again lets go over biowares games below.
In my opinion, it will have a great storyline, with quests you do every now and then. Grouping is optional but not required. There will be instances where you can pvp but most likely they will be in areas that are desginated for it, no FFAs, sorta like how EQ 1 and 2 worked. I think the game will be like a lot of other mmos with the background changed and some different events. I'm really shooting for the great story and the alignment system (cause i'm a sucker for those, loved the fable games) storyline does not make the game. you can have all the storyline and voice acting you want and the game can fail. go look at how well aoc and aion have done with that. aoc is ignoring the pvpers and it is costing them and aion is a long grind.
TL:DR version: question was asked and answered best as possible, all companies over-hype, part of marketing. Bioware has proven they can make good games, question is can they turn it into a MMO. Features i think will be in game: grouping, questing, pvp in designated areas. Love Alignment systems. and they should show just game play and pvp.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and views, they will most likely differ form yours.
PS: free cookie to anyone who gets through that wall of text.
lets go over biowares games.
baldur's gate 1 and 2 - hated by ad&d players go read some of the reviews on the rpg sites from back in the day. the game had bad ai boring game play and the storyline felt rushed.
neverwinter nights - am i the only one who remembers how bioware ripped off gamers everywhere? remember the nwn toolset that was beloved? guess what anything you made with the toolset bioware owned. meaning if you made a quest and maps bioware could package it up and sell it and you wouldn't see a dime.
kotor - good game however bioware changed it from the pc to pc and xbox.
jade empire - i didn't play it but it looked like another in the line of xbox rpgs.
mass effect 1 and 2 - fps twich combat with a bad cover system very little rpg elements and the same old game play do a mission go back to the ship and talk to the crew repeat 20 times. also look at how bioware microsoft and ea are milking the players with mass effect 2 dlc. that content should be in the game from the start.
dragon age - so so reviews for a theme park single player game. suffers from the mass effect do a quest and talk to the npcs at camp. also suffers the dlc curse.
so lets look at tor we have the guys from swg who lied to the player base time after time working on a star wars game that's being made by an overrated rpg maker. said overrated rpg maker is owned by ea who is well known for ripping gamers off also said rpg maker gives love and prase to microsoft who has hurt gaming big time thanks to the casual console mass effect.
like i said rather then do what we the players want bioware is just doing whatever to make money.
For me its the storyline. i am big fan of KOTOR series and even when i first played the single player RPG i knew this would make a kick ass MMO. For me rich story and lore is very important when it comes to MMOS.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
baldur's gate 1 and 2 - hated by ad&d players go read some of the reviews on the rpg sites from back in the day. the game had bad ai boring game play and the storyline felt rushed.
Wow... that's funny, because Baldur's Gate 1 & 2 are commonly regarded as a few of the best computer RPG's released. If you and some AD&D players didn't like it, fine, but don't start selling they were bad games because it makes you sound unbelievable and someone that can't see beyond what he himself likes, thinking that what he likes and dislikes represents the opinion of all the other gamers.
neverwinter nights - am i the only one who remembers how bioware ripped off gamers everywhere? remember the nwn toolset that was beloved? guess what anything you made with the toolset bioware owned. meaning if you made a quest and maps bioware could package it up and sell it and you wouldn't see a dime.
The toolset provided in a lot of online server worlds and had great flexibility. It was certainly more than a lot of other games offered. So yes, if you were dissatisfied with that, then you're part of a minority.
kotor - good game however bioware changed it from the pc to pc and xbox.
jade empire - i didn't play it but it looked like another in the line of xbox rpgs.
It was a great game and its own different flavor of IP in its own right.
mass effect 1 and 2 - fps twich combat with a bad cover system very little rpg elements and the same old game play do a mission go back to the ship and talk to the crew repeat 20 times. also look at how bioware microsoft and ea are milking the players with mass effect 2 dlc. that content should be in the game from the start.
DLC is what you see in a lot of other games, Half Life 2 is a good example but there are many many more. Besides, even if they simplified ME2 to make it smoother, it was very immersive with good companion characters and a solid gameplay experience, cover system included.
dragon age - so so reviews for a theme park single player game. suffers from the mass effect do a quest and talk to the npcs at camp. also suffers the dlc curse.
so lets look at tor we have the guys from swg who lied to the player base time after time working on a star wars game that's being made by an overrated rpg maker. said overrated rpg maker is owned by ea who is well known for ripping gamers off also said rpg maker gives love and prase to microsoft who has hurt gaming big time thanks to the casual console mass effect.
Yes, and Blizzard is owned by Vivendi and Activision and ANet is owned by NCSoft, so what?
You're clearly biased: you don't like Bioware and you don't like the SWG developers.
like i said rather then do what we the players want bioware is just doing whatever to make money.
Like I said, healthy scepticism is a good thing.
What you showed was a clear dislike of anyone coming from SWG and a dislike of Bioware. Which is fine, but it is clear that it colors your opinion of everything Bioware does, including SW:TOR. No matter what information is revealed, I'm convinced that because of your bias you'll never want to believe SW:TOR could be any good.
Which is fine. That's your opinion. If you think you'll not like SW:TOR, you don't have to play it. Other people will and they'll enjoy it, finding it a good game for them.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
I'm seeing the same things and think it will only be a step above STO. I can't invision any replayability past the first couple months after viewing all the movies and cuts scenes. I don't even think I'd buy it if it was a single player game, it really just looks like a mix of STO and WoW.
"Censorship is never over for those who have experienced it. It is a brand on the imagination that affects the individual who has suffered it, forever." - Noam Chomsky
We all see things sometimes. I usually after drinking some beer. But what I find important is, what if the game doesnt classify as MMORPG according to the MMORPGlable police? Does it get disqualified?
Apart from that you both sound a little dilusional if you compare it to STO. The singleplayer topic regarding SW:TOR is a little outdated now with all the information that has been released.
No one here can give you the answers besides repeating what has been said in interviews or shown in videos.
The questions:
What makes this game a good MMORPG? What makes everyone so sure Bioware has hit another home run out of the ballpark? What makes Star Wars: The Old Republic the BEST MMORPG ever made?
The answer:
It hasn't been released yet.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Your question has been answered in several posts already now, aspects that regular MMO's have that SW:TOR will also have. You have just chosen to ignore them. Frankly it's silly to believe that SW:TOR will be any less a MMO than WAR, AoC, LotrO and WoW were or that FFXIV, TERA and RIFT will be.
Bioware and ANet both have the policy to not talk about game aspects that aren't fully workable or made it into the game yet. And both companies haven't talked about all the game mechanics yet, even if both their games will be released in 2011.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
For the rest, it's all undetermined yet, since we haven't played the full beta yet, and they haven't revealed detailed info about all game aspects yet.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
http://steamcommunity.com/id/Cloudsol/
@ OneMMOVet & agaga
You guys are just being silly at this point. All of your comments in response to my checklist are in direct contradiction with what Bioware has told the community time and time again. Its obvious you have already made up your mind not to like the game and you don't want to listen to anything positive about it... even if it is from the horse's mouth.
Bioware has already stated repeatedly that:
- The game features huge open worlds and is not overly instanced.
- A big emphasis has been put on making crafting integral to the gaming experience.
- Grouping is highly encouraged.
- Guilds confirmed.
- PVP confirmed.
- Housing in player ships confirmed (and that is far better than what we get in most MMOs).
It's like you guys just refuse to believe anything the developers say. Are you truly that jaded? If so, I feel sorry for you...
@ eyeswideopen - Who here said the game would be the greatest MMO ever? All we have been saying is that it might be a good game and we aren't writing it off automatically like some of you. At least some of us are discussing the actual announced features rather than ignoring everything the developer announces about it.
I really don't think its healthy to be as negative as a lot of you are...
I don't recall aiming that at any one particular person.
And the fact remains, EVERY mmo is the greatest mmo since the beginning of time to some people when all they can go by is what the devs say along with their own increasingly ridiculous speculation....until it's released and the reality doesn't match the hype; and in some cases doesn't even match the devs description 3 days before the launch.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
and why should we trust what the devs have to say at this point? how many mmos have come out that are just like the devs said they would be? i can think of only a handfull eve being the top of that list. better still the tor devs in my eyes lied to us about space in tor. besides that.
have they shown the huge open worlds? no they have only shown little 10 second videos or a screen shot or two.
have they shown anything with crafting? no all they have shown is loot from mobs.
they have shown very little with player grouping and nothing with guilds.
have they shown anything with pvp? they talked about battlefields but that's it and they haven't full talked about pvp.
and thus far they haven't shown anything really with the ships. all we know is that the ships are for the tunnel shooter game.
do i trust the devs? not anymore not after we have been burned by devs so much in the past. don't believe me go over to the fringe and they have a whole list of who has lied with games.
To me, it seems a MMORPG will be good if it provides fun challenges (be them PvE or PvP) that urge players to group together in order to overcome them, We know there will be grouping, dungeons and raids, so we only don't know if they'll be FUN - and I think we'll only be able to see if that at launch. Other features may add to the game, but I don't think they'll make or beark it.
So let me get this straight....
You paid for a game UPFRONT for a yr, despite the fact it was a korean grinder that had mega hacking problems? Yet you have the audacity to call out folks for enjoying Bioware games?
When I feel screwed out of a box purchase, plus a 12 month subscription....then come talk to me. Otherwise I would suggest you get back to that "winning" Aion forum, and converse with the other 5 fans you are stuck with, due to pure stupidity on your part.
This is also read "A lack of thinking on your part doesnt constitute dealing with a troll on ours".
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
i think lilwins has ended up bring up some very good points. remember aion was another wow clone that was going to be the next best thing and failed. and it is safe to say that we can all see this going on with tor as too many people are blindly following bioware.
make up your own mind look at the facts and hear out those of us who won't blindly follow.
Wait what? From the moment they announced it, it was worded exactly as it turned out to be, something small in scope.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yawn these are getting real boring. Just wait and play the freakin game.
Good lord, it's like some people ignore things the devs say on purpose.
Okay the thread was orginally about what makes this a good MMORPG? Which has been stated several times before why people think it will be good. As for if it will be better then some, that was not the question asked (and needed to be stated that way if that was what was intended to be asked instead)
As for believing what the developers says and whether we should or not. As the game isn't released yet, all you "can" go by is what the developers say. We got screen shots we got vids and we got interviews. Other then testers which are almost assuredly under NDA, so they don't count as a source of info, the only thing left is the devs. Bioware has alot at stake on their first MMO as a big company to on purposely make it bad.
As for saying that devs always overhype their product and never bring anything out as they say (IE missing features, glitches, change classes) ever looked at a single commercial? Take Mcdonalds for instance (i use that cause most people know this company) they say their burgers are 10 times better then the competition (they placed their deliciously staked burger in color right next to a toppled slop burger in black and white). Last time i had a burger from there it was bland and terriable tasting (and thats happened more then once at multiple locations). I had a burger at a another resturant that was 10 times better then theirs. So it's "every" company that does that, not just devs, it's called marketing. No company is gonna say, "yeah our product sucks and your most likely gonna get sick from it, but hey at least we aren't the competition that sells good burgers".
In short you can speculate, but to say someone else is wrong cause they listen to the devs when other companies have done the same thing is pointless. Thats like saying one person skipped out on their rent so you will to, so we better charge you an extra month just in case. You really have to take each company on their own merits. Bioware has proven they know how to make good games.
Dragon age, Jade empire, Neverwinter Nights (1 and 2) Star wars knights of the old republic (1 and 2). Any of these games by "most" are considered good games. Now the making the game good isn't the question, it's if they can make their good game, into a good MMO. To determine if they are any good at doing that before they had a chance at all is unrealistic.
In my opinion, it will have a great storyline, with quests you do every now and then. Grouping is optional but not required. There will be instances where you can pvp but most likely they will be in areas that are desginated for it, no FFAs, sorta like how EQ 1 and 2 worked. I think the game will be like a lot of other mmos with the background changed and some different events. I'm really shooting for the great story and the alignment system (cause i'm a sucker for those, loved the fable games)
TL:DR version: question was asked and answered best as possible, all companies over-hype, part of marketing. Bioware has proven they can make good games, question is can they turn it into a MMO. Features i think will be in game: grouping, questing, pvp in designated areas. Love Alignment systems.
Disclaimer: This is my opinion and views, they will most likely differ form yours.
PS: free cookie to anyone who gets through that wall of text.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Good post, and many here have also made good posts.
Many people refuse to believe what the developers state or what has been shown in videos. If they don't want to take the developers words, they are not currently in game testing, and they don't want to scour the internet to try and find game testing leaks or watch the game demos to see what the actual gameplay is like, then nothing will convince them. I don't agree with watching leaked videos, especially because game testing is such an early build that many things can change.
Altogether though its good to see at least some people are following this game closely enough to know what the feature list is and what this game has to offer. I find it interesting that people still believe that the game world will be small or instanced. It just goes to show you that there are as many people who blindly dismiss features and dislike the game as there are people that blindly follow the game.
Yes, because Jake Neri, Dallas Dickinson and Julio Torres made themselves such a great reputation for telling the truth when they were at SOE, didn't they now?
Very good arguments in your post, it's like you said.
Ok, I want my cookie now
Bioware devs have said it. Demos have shown certain game aspects. Playtesters have confirmed some more stuff, like even the origin planets being huge.
While a reasonable amount of scepticism is healthy, to doubt everything that is revealed that isn't conform your belief or gut feeling is irrational.
I'm guessing some people have been following and believing the hype and been disappointed by other MMO's in the past, so now they cling to their mantra 'don't believe anything if it sounds like those other hypes, trust your gut'. But their gut hadn't done them a favor those other times too, right?
Me, I can be enthusiastic about games but I never followed any hype of any game. So I never felt bitter that a game wasn't what it or people claimed it to be beforehand, because I had a 'let's wait and see and experience it myself in open beta' attitude anyway.
That's why I could even enjoy MMO's like CO, Aion, AoC, LotrO and others for what they offered, not for what any hype or unrealistic expectations made it out to be. A stance I intend to keep doing for upcoming MMO's as GW2, SW:TOR, Rift and others as well.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
lets go over biowares games.
baldur's gate 1 and 2 - hated by ad&d players go read some of the reviews on the rpg sites from back in the day. the game had bad ai boring game play and the storyline felt rushed.
neverwinter nights - am i the only one who remembers how bioware ripped off gamers everywhere? remember the nwn toolset that was beloved? guess what anything you made with the toolset bioware owned. meaning if you made a quest and maps bioware could package it up and sell it and you wouldn't see a dime.
kotor - good game however bioware changed it from the pc to pc and xbox.
jade empire - i didn't play it but it looked like another in the line of xbox rpgs.
mass effect 1 and 2 - fps twich combat with a bad cover system very little rpg elements and the same old game play do a mission go back to the ship and talk to the crew repeat 20 times. also look at how bioware microsoft and ea are milking the players with mass effect 2 dlc. that content should be in the game from the start.
dragon age - so so reviews for a theme park single player game. suffers from the mass effect do a quest and talk to the npcs at camp. also suffers the dlc curse.
so lets look at tor we have the guys from swg who lied to the player base time after time working on a star wars game that's being made by an overrated rpg maker. said overrated rpg maker is owned by ea who is well known for ripping gamers off also said rpg maker gives love and prase to microsoft who has hurt gaming big time thanks to the casual console mass effect.
like i said rather then do what we the players want bioware is just doing whatever to make money.
For me its the storyline. i am big fan of KOTOR series and even when i first played the single player RPG i knew this would make a kick ass MMO. For me rich story and lore is very important when it comes to MMOS.
90% of haters are begging for love. 10% just want a little attention -- Paulo Coelho
Wow lots of trolls in this one.
Like I said, healthy scepticism is a good thing.
What you showed was a clear dislike of anyone coming from SWG and a dislike of Bioware. Which is fine, but it is clear that it colors your opinion of everything Bioware does, including SW:TOR. No matter what information is revealed, I'm convinced that because of your bias you'll never want to believe SW:TOR could be any good.
Which is fine. That's your opinion. If you think you'll not like SW:TOR, you don't have to play it. Other people will and they'll enjoy it, finding it a good game for them.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."