I’m sorry, when did instant gratification and adventure become mutually exclusive things?
Not sure they are, but if I had to vote, I would vote that they are mutually exclusive since INSTANT gratification involves zero time where adventure, by most people's definition, mine included, involves a time component; travelling somewhere, doing something, etc...
I’m sorry, when did instant gratification and adventure become mutually exclusive things?
"Adventure" generaly conveys some element of risk, adversity, hardship, effort to arrive at some goal.
"Instant Gratification" generaly conveys the avoidance of all those things in order to arrive at the end goal as swiftly, surely and effortlessly as possible.
Instant Gratification is all about the cookie.
Adventure is all about what you had to go through to get the cookie.
Folks whose focus on "Instant Gratification" pretty much want to skip that part and get right to the cookie.
Funny thing is.....when you can get as many cookies as you want, whenever you want with absolutely no effort.... most people find that the cookies aren't really tasting all that good any more.
It's kinda like inflation. When there is plenty of cash around and it's really easy to get.... it's not really worth all that much anymore.
I’m sorry, when did instant gratification and adventure become mutually exclusive things?
"Adventure" generaly conveys some element of risk, adversity, hardship, effort to arrive at some goal.
"Instant Gratification" generaly conveys the avoidance of all those things in order to arrive at the end goal as swiftly, surely and effortlessly as possible.
Instant Gratification is all about the cookie.
Adventure is all about what you had to go through to get the cookie.
Folks whose focus on "Instant Gratification" pretty much want to skip that part and get right to the cookie.
Funny thing is.....when you can get as many cookies as you want, whenever you want with absolutely no effort.... most people find that the cookies aren't really tasting all that good any more.
It's kinda like inflation. When there is plenty of cash around and it's really easy to get.... it's not really worth all that much anymore.
Then it needs to be removed (instantgratification) because that is not a correct assesment of how MMG's have been changing.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I’m sorry, when did instant gratification and adventure become mutually exclusive things?
"Adventure" generaly conveys some element of risk, adversity, hardship, effort to arrive at some goal.
"Instant Gratification" generaly conveys the avoidance of all those things in order to arrive at the end goal as swiftly, surely and effortlessly as possible.
Instant Gratification is all about the cookie.
Adventure is all about what you had to go through to get the cookie.
Folks whose focus on "Instant Gratification" pretty much want to skip that part and get right to the cookie.
Funny thing is.....when you can get as many cookies as you want, whenever you want with absolutely no effort.... most people find that the cookies aren't really tasting all that good any more.
It's kinda like inflation. When there is plenty of cash around and it's really easy to get.... it's not really worth all that much anymore.
Then it needs to be removed (instantgratification) because that is not a correct assesment of how MMG's have been changing.
Is that some sort of new genre where massive amounts of people play together offline? Are you referring to some kind of huge bingo hall?
If you meant MMORPGs than yes, I would say that "instant gratification" is an ideal way to assess the direction that contemporary titles are taking.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
That's because 99% of those 11.5 million players have never played those games, thus can't have formed a proper opinion about those games. I find it laughable that people who have never even played EQ and UO are so dead set convinced that a game like WoW is so superior, when they have absolutely nothing to base their opinion on other than "well 11.5 million other people are playing this game, so this must be better!" Don't make me start using Walmart and McDonalds analogies...
Today's MMOs aren't much better. Yes modern MMOs improved on certain things that the old MMOs had their flaws in, but those same old MMOs also had a significant amount of game mechanics that added value, that are simply ignored in today's MMOs.
Now you are making up numbers. Where did u 99% come from? Don't you know that WOW sucked away lots of EQ players.
I started with UO beta, then EQ for a year. WOW for 3 now .. wow is a MUCH better game. Camping is HORRIBLE in EQ and WOW fixed that. Grinding mobs in EQ is horrible and WOW fixed that.
I don't even have to begin with UO. Unless you like ganging, or clicking a rock for an hour to level up mining, it is NOT a fun game.
Apparently everything I say is going to be taken hyper-literally.
lol what did I try to tell you about tossing these "facts" around like you know what you're talking about. I'm still waiting for you to tell me one heroic item that's offered through heroics to support your silly "why get the gear through raids when it's available in heroics tomorrow" garbage you keep talking about.
Replace "99%" with "vast majority". The point still remains, that most WoW players have little to no concept of just how the older MMOs were actually like.
The only reason this would even be close to true is because of the sheer amount of people playing WoW. So many so that, the minority that does, is still probably bigger than you're giving credit for. There's no denying that WoW is the first and only MMO for many, but to act like 'old schoolers' don't play that game is just ignorant. I for one am proof that you're wrong. I'm sure I'm not the only one in this thread alone.
And while you have had the experience to form a personal opinion, not everyone else does. Again, I'm not saying that the older MMOs are universally better than the new ones. "Better" is a matter of opinion when it comes to entertainment. What I'm arguing is that most "MMO gamers" of today can't even form an accurate opinion because they don't even have the experience.
Even you with your experience makes some horribly inaccurate opinions and statements. Such is evident by most of your posts here. One second you acknowledge that people left UO/EQ for WoW, and then the next second you're spewing crap like 99% of people in WoW never blah blah.
My personal opinion is that while on the surface WoW might not look like a grindy game, when you get into the meat and bones of it, the grinding in WoW isn't any better than UO or EQ.
Well you are entitled to your opinion, however wrong it may be.
As for the instant gratification thing. Cash shop f2p's have instant gratification. You pay some money, and you have the best pet in the game. That's instant.
I honestly don't know where people get off saying that WoW is instant gratification? Why because it doesn't take over a year to get into the game?
If someone comes in as a new player, it's not going to be instant getting from 0-80. You hear all this "omg 1-80 in a week", yes with heirloom items (with newbies won't have access to), recruit-a-friend, and someone running you through instances. That's what they don't tell you.
Once a new player reaches 80, they don't instantly have raid gear. They don't instantly have their crafting skills maxed out. They don't instantly have all of the necessary places unlocked. It's just a cop out that wow-haters picked up somewhere and just ran with it.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
I’m sorry, when did instant gratification and adventure become mutually exclusive things?
"Adventure" generaly conveys some element of risk, adversity, hardship, effort to arrive at some goal.
"Instant Gratification" generaly conveys the avoidance of all those things in order to arrive at the end goal as swiftly, surely and effortlessly as possible.
Instant Gratification is all about the cookie.
Adventure is all about what you had to go through to get the cookie.
Folks whose focus on "Instant Gratification" pretty much want to skip that part and get right to the cookie.
Funny thing is.....when you can get as many cookies as you want, whenever you want with absolutely no effort.... most people find that the cookies aren't really tasting all that good any more.
It's kinda like inflation. When there is plenty of cash around and it's really easy to get.... it's not really worth all that much anymore.
Then it needs to be removed (instantgratification) because that is not a correct assesment of how MMG's have been changing.
Is that some sort of new genre where massive amounts of people play together offline? Are you referring to some kind of huge bingo hall?
If you meant MMORPGs than yes, I would say that "instant gratification" is an ideal way to assess the direction that contemporary titles are taking.
MMG, is massivly multiplayer GAMES, no one playes "onlines", And no, "instant gratification" has no root in reaility. None. Its a term tossed around by forum users becouse they feel superior to others.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
I bet it sounds good when you say it in your head, but you have zero proof for this.
Could say likewise, buddy.
You apparently can't accept the fact that your favorite MMO that you fanboygasm all over is just as much of a grind as the older MMOs, just in a less direct way. Rather than spending effort progressing through tiers at each step, it's just replaced with grinding the same things over and over again every time a new tier comes out for "easy" epics. It's not any less of a grind when you look at the broad picture, because you're doing just as much work to constantly replace everything.
"I guess everyone I've spoken to who's played WoW and UO lied about wishing there was a new MMO similar to UO, because they're sick of WoW.
Oh wait, anecdotal evidence doesn't count, even if it happened.
So I guess then your anecdotal evidence can be dismissed too.
I like how that works."
Everyone I've spoken to could care less about EQ or UO. See, it works both ways. That's why you don't use it. 11.5 million subscribers. Record setting in terms of revenue. These are FACTS.
That's because 99% of those 11.5 million players have never played those games, thus can't have formed a proper opinion about those games. I find it laughable that people who have never even played EQ and UO are so dead set convinced that a game like WoW is so superior, when they have absolutely nothing to base their opinion on other than "well 11.5 million other people are playing this game, so this must be better!" Don't make me start using Walmart and McDonalds analogies...
Today's MMOs aren't much better. Yes modern MMOs improved on certain things that the old MMOs had their flaws in, but those same old MMOs also had a significant amount of game mechanics that added value, that are simply ignored in today's MMOs.
I played those games and daoc , etc. But i think your wrong and dude in the light blue is right.
Why his arguement is sound and logical. Yours is a no, nut-uh, and non apicable fact feast. The is something to be said for people not playign certian mmorpg. But the same happened to daoc, which never had near the number of people try as EQ1 (Why who knbows they liked THIER game). So this is nothign new. But rarely to worse games replace better games. (Me and many people playign daoc , stayed playign it for a long time after wow, it does many thign better than wow). But after a while all mmorpg get old, unless dev. are doign perfect jobs.
Lets be honest wow leveling is not that grindy i enjoy it, i enjoy it more than endgame content. Its fun there are a lot of new places, abilities, equipment, etc.
Side Note:
But, can you imagine if Mythic would've stayed on top of DAOC? Because Warhammer was a complete fail. My god, how could mythic get their DAOC 2 wrong, it would've surpassed WoW had they done 4 realms, tones of classes and one massive frontier..!
WINNER!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
That's the funny thing about the references to heroics/dailies as 'instant gratitification'. How is it instant if it's limited per day?
Unless there's a cash shop selling games that directly affect gameplay, it isn't instant gratification. Period.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
The entire point of the original post was to shed light on the growing culture of gamers that seem to opt to pull out their credit card to be rewarded, rather than actually participating in a true sense of gameplay to be rewarded.
I take it you did not actually read the entire thread.
Remember in eq1 when you were actually proud of your character? You had to work at it, now everythings so easy I forget the names of my characters a week after i drop an MMO.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
So, becouse you perionaly have been conditioned that you must do pointless repeditve tasks to get to the "fun stuff", this means that thoes who do not treat games aslife affirming copenents, are lesser people? And any game that atempts to be fun from the onset, and dosen't wate your time, is a lesser game.
I see.
Your versions of cash shops are also, not very prominent in this market, and reak of pure drama and factless sterotyping.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
That's the funny thing about the references to heroics/dailies as 'instant gratitification'. How is it instant if it's limited per day?
Good point. Im not sure what all WOW has in its item shop but I dont think it can be arugued that cash shop items tend to make things easier to get. Deeds in lotro seem to have become to hard for players to do so, the cash shop will be selling tomes so the deeds will be easier to get. Again, maybe not instant but lots easier. Hell, cash shops are the epitomy of instant gratification. Why do the quest when the uber sword can be had for a few dollars?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
That's the funny thing about the references to heroics/dailies as 'instant gratitification'. How is it instant if it's limited per day?
Unless ther'es a cash shop selling games that directly affect gameplay, it isn't instant gratification. Period.
Heoric dungeons via the dungeon group finder -- another instant gratification tool since it does all of the "work" of assembling a group AND even teleports you right into the dungeon -- allows you to do heroics beyond the daily lockout limit.
It's not "instant" gratification, but it's significantly 'less effort' gratification.
Then it needs to be removed (instantgratification) because that is not a correct assesment of how MMG's have been changing.
Is that some sort of new genre where massive amounts of people play together offline? Are you referring to some kind of huge bingo hall?
If you meant MMORPGs than yes, I would say that "instant gratification" is an ideal way to assess the direction that contemporary titles are taking.
MMG, is massivly multiplayer GAMES, no one playes "onlines", And no, "instant gratification" has no root in reaility. None. Its a term tossed around by forum users becouse they feel superior to others.
I thought I was playing online when I played these games. How do you play 'em?
Also I don't personally feel superior to anyone because they enjoy games that offer such treatment. I just wouldn't want to see the whole genre go down that road. Entertainment thrives with variety. It dies without it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
So, becouse you perionaly have been conditioned that you must do pointless repeditve tasks to get to the "fun stuff", this means that thoes who do not treat games aslife affirming copenents, are lesser people? And any game that atempts to be fun from the onset, and dosen't wate your time, is a lesser game.
I see.
Your versions of cash shops are also, not very prominent in this market, and reak of pure drama and factless sterotyping.
Could you imagine how screwed up life would be if you say could buy an injection that made you as great a basketball player as someone who has practiced their whole life?
Hard work should have rewards. Expecting rewards without hard work, well thats just American.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
So, becouse you perionaly have been conditioned that you must do pointless repeditve tasks to get to the "fun stuff", this means that thoes who do not treat games aslife affirming copenents, are lesser people? And any game that atempts to be fun from the onset, and dosen't wate your time, is a lesser game.
I see.
Your versions of cash shops are also, not very prominent in this market, and reak of pure drama and factless sterotyping.
Yes you got it. Those of us who feel getting by doing is important really need to get with it and jump on the entitlement bandwagon. But the bandwagon has gone by and I shouldnt have to chase it, it should come back for me shouldnt it?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Remember in eq1 when you were actually proud of your character? You had to work at it, now everythings so easy I forget the names of my characters a week after i drop an MMO.
No, I rember in EQ1 where I wasted tons of my time on pointless activites to chase that elsuive "fun". As far as your retention of the world and lore, thats a persioanl issue, you may try reading things in games. You can Challanging games, with out intentional tedium and harsh punishments that do nothing but waste the users time. Games are entertainment, not jobs.
Skinner box abounds.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
So, becouse you perionaly have been conditioned that you must do pointless repeditve tasks to get to the "fun stuff", this means that thoes who do not treat games aslife affirming copenents, are lesser people? And any game that atempts to be fun from the onset, and dosen't wate your time, is a lesser game.
I see.
Your versions of cash shops are also, not very prominent in this market, and reak of pure drama and factless sterotyping.
Yes you got it. Those of us who feel getting by doing is important really need to get with it and jump on the entitlement bandwagon. But the bandwagon has gone by and I shouldnt have to chase it, it should come back for me shouldnt it?
Name a game that gives you everything, and instiantly makes you have gone threw every bit of content on log in. Do it.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
That's the funny thing about the references to heroics/dailies as 'instant gratitification'. How is it instant if it's limited per day?
Good point. Im not sure what all WOW has in its item shop but I dont think it can be arugued that cash shop items tend to make things easier to get. Deeds in lotro seem to have become to hard for players to do so, the cash shop will be selling tomes so the deeds will be easier to get. Again, maybe not instant but lots easier. Hell, cash shops are the epitomy of instant gratification. Why do the quest when the uber sword can be had for a few dollars?
You seem to have about zero idea of what you are talking about as fact. Like, none.
---------- "Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
Remember in eq1 when you were actually proud of your character? You had to work at it, now everythings so easy I forget the names of my characters a week after i drop an MMO.
No, I rember in EQ1 where I wasted tons of my time on pointless activites to chase that elsuive "fun". As far as your retention of the world and lore, thats a persioanl issue, you may try reading things in games. You can Challanging games, with out intentional tedium and harsh punishments that do nothing but waste the users time. Games are entertainment, not jobs.
Skinner box abounds.
Actually what I remember most clearly is having met very good friends in eq1 that i had to cooperate with in order progress my character. We were a team at all times. It was a great social medium with a lot of challenge. Too bad most of the old school MMO'rs are gone and have been replaced with self entitled power gamers.
Comments
Not sure they are, but if I had to vote, I would vote that they are mutually exclusive since INSTANT gratification involves zero time where adventure, by most people's definition, mine included, involves a time component; travelling somewhere, doing something, etc...
edited for spelling
Gaming since Avalon Hill was making board games.
Played SWG, EVE, Fallen Earth, LOTRO, Rift, Vanguard, WoW, SWTOR, TSW, Tera
Tried Aoc, Aion, EQII, RoM, Vindictus, Darkfail, DDO, GW, PotBS
"Adventure" generaly conveys some element of risk, adversity, hardship, effort to arrive at some goal.
"Instant Gratification" generaly conveys the avoidance of all those things in order to arrive at the end goal as swiftly, surely and effortlessly as possible.
Instant Gratification is all about the cookie.
Adventure is all about what you had to go through to get the cookie.
Folks whose focus on "Instant Gratification" pretty much want to skip that part and get right to the cookie.
Funny thing is.....when you can get as many cookies as you want, whenever you want with absolutely no effort.... most people find that the cookies aren't really tasting all that good any more.
It's kinda like inflation. When there is plenty of cash around and it's really easy to get.... it's not really worth all that much anymore.
Then it needs to be removed (instant gratification) because that is not a correct assesment of how MMG's have been changing.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Is that some sort of new genre where massive amounts of people play together offline? Are you referring to some kind of huge bingo hall?
If you meant MMORPGs than yes, I would say that "instant gratification" is an ideal way to assess the direction that contemporary titles are taking.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Adventure = Getting wind of a beast in need of slaying. Finding some fellows to group as he is a mean one. Gearing up, crafting or buying potions at AH. Tracking the beast and after an intense battle you see he drops the +4 damage sword of uberness. You and your fellows roll and......YES!! you have won the roll.
Instant gratification = Logging in, seeing the +4 damage sword of uberness in the cash shop. Buying the sword with one fell swipe of your Visa card. Going to the center of town to display your +4 damage sword in all its uberness.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
MMG, is massivly multiplayer GAMES, no one playes "onlines", And no, "instant gratification" has no root in reaility. None. Its a term tossed around by forum users becouse they feel superior to others.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
So again, it's a vanity issue where there is no compatition. Also, why are you bringing up cash shops?
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Side Note:
But, can you imagine if Mythic would've stayed on top of DAOC? Because Warhammer was a complete fail. My god, how could mythic get their DAOC 2 wrong, it would've surpassed WoW had they done 4 realms, tones of classes and one massive frontier..!
WINNER!
"No they are not charity. That is where the whales come in. (I play for free. Whales pays.) Devs get a business. That is how it works."
-Nariusseldon
Cash shops are the natural course of instant gratification as is being seen more all the time. They appear when grinding dailies and achievments becomes to hard for the playerbase.
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
That's the funny thing about the references to heroics/dailies as 'instant gratitification'. How is it instant if it's limited per day?
Unless there's a cash shop selling games that directly affect gameplay, it isn't instant gratification. Period.
The entire point of the original post was to shed light on the growing culture of gamers that seem to opt to pull out their credit card to be rewarded, rather than actually participating in a true sense of gameplay to be rewarded.
I take it you did not actually read the entire thread.
Remember in eq1 when you were actually proud of your character? You had to work at it, now everythings so easy I forget the names of my characters a week after i drop an MMO.
So, becouse you perionaly have been conditioned that you must do pointless repeditve tasks to get to the "fun stuff", this means that thoes who do not treat games aslife affirming copenents, are lesser people? And any game that atempts to be fun from the onset, and dosen't wate your time, is a lesser game.
I see.
Your versions of cash shops are also, not very prominent in this market, and reak of pure drama and factless sterotyping.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Good point. Im not sure what all WOW has in its item shop but I dont think it can be arugued that cash shop items tend to make things easier to get. Deeds in lotro seem to have become to hard for players to do so, the cash shop will be selling tomes so the deeds will be easier to get. Again, maybe not instant but lots easier. Hell, cash shops are the epitomy of instant gratification. Why do the quest when the uber sword can be had for a few dollars?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
Heoric dungeons via the dungeon group finder -- another instant gratification tool since it does all of the "work" of assembling a group AND even teleports you right into the dungeon -- allows you to do heroics beyond the daily lockout limit.
It's not "instant" gratification, but it's significantly 'less effort' gratification.
I thought I was playing online when I played these games. How do you play 'em?
Also I don't personally feel superior to anyone because they enjoy games that offer such treatment. I just wouldn't want to see the whole genre go down that road. Entertainment thrives with variety. It dies without it.
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Could you imagine how screwed up life would be if you say could buy an injection that made you as great a basketball player as someone who has practiced their whole life?
Hard work should have rewards. Expecting rewards without hard work, well thats just American.
Yes you got it. Those of us who feel getting by doing is important really need to get with it and jump on the entitlement bandwagon. But the bandwagon has gone by and I shouldnt have to chase it, it should come back for me shouldnt it?
WOW isnt great because it has 12 million players. WOW has 12 million players because its great.
No, I rember in EQ1 where I wasted tons of my time on pointless activites to chase that elsuive "fun". As far as your retention of the world and lore, thats a persioanl issue, you may try reading things in games. You can Challanging games, with out intentional tedium and harsh punishments that do nothing but waste the users time. Games are entertainment, not jobs.
Skinner box abounds.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Name a game that gives you everything, and instiantly makes you have gone threw every bit of content on log in. Do it.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
You seem to have about zero idea of what you are talking about as fact. Like, none.
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"Anyone posting on this forum is not an average user, and there for any opinions about the game are going to be overly critical compared to an average users opinions." - Me
"No, your wrong.." - Random user #123
"Hello person posting on a site specifically for MMO's in a thread on a sub forum specifically for a particular game talking about meta features and making comparisons to other titles in the genre, and their meta features.
How are you?" -Me
Actually what I remember most clearly is having met very good friends in eq1 that i had to cooperate with in order progress my character. We were a team at all times. It was a great social medium with a lot of challenge. Too bad most of the old school MMO'rs are gone and have been replaced with self entitled power gamers.
This society is now based on throwaway items and instant gratification. It's a selfish world. Why wouldn't that also be placed in the games we play?
Proud MMORPG.com member since March 2004! Make PvE GREAT Again!
QFT, Thank goodness Ill be dead before we drain the world dry and the last of us die hungry and afraid on a rotting dust ball.