what annoyed me about Bill Roper was how he blatantly lied about his products to the press- Hellgate was supposed to have a lot of things that Bill said was going to be in the game.. which instead turned out to be pure crap (Ie. Peter Molyeneux syndrome). I'm just glad he's not been as vocal about STO.
As for knowing Bill was going to work on STO, he wasn't arround when I bought the game, it was only once I had paid for it that it ended up being a "Oh shit!" moment that I couldn't bail from. Whilst I can't blame him for STO failing, I can however blame him for Hellgate, and he more than deserves it.
I don't blame people for hating him after what he did with failgate london. But for some reason STO seems to be going down the same path that Hellgate did- ie. Only focusing on bug fixes, adding content that no one wanted, ignoring why their game sucks. I'm wondering how many people at Cryptic are Ex-Flagship? I'm guessing a lot because it seems all so similar. (same community even, people pissed at the devs and the devs ignoring them, and the moderators banning everyone).
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
CEOs don't do the hiring. They are media pieces who for the most part have no say on what happens in a project. Producers and directors are the people to blame for a crap game. All the ceo/president does is make business deals.
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
CEOs don't do the hiring. They are media pieces who for the most part have no say on what happens in a project. Producers and directors are the people to blame for a crap game. All the ceo/president does is make business deals.
you mean business deals like "hell yeah, we can make a "AAA" mmo in two years, no probleem at all!"
obviously the ceo was completely blameless on that one.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned. Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
I know.... But he is a co-founder of the company and it did do good for years with him there. Consequently, I figured he was deserving a pass - for now. If after the others are gone and things dont change then clearly he be held at fault. Moreover I'm not sure if he was the one who came up with the asinine two-year cut and paste MMO development plan. For what it is worth, whomever had that bright idea should have their developer and gamer credentials revoked and then shot!
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
I know.... But he is a co-founder of the company and it did do good for years with him there. Consequently, I figured he was deserving a pass - for now. If after the others are gone and things dont change then clearly he be held at fault. Moreover I'm not sure if he was the one who came up with the asinine two-year cut and paste MMO development plan. For what it is worth, whomever had that bright idea should have their developer and gamer credentials revoked and then shot!
Actually he is responsible , they were desperate to get some sort of iconic IP , they would have promised the moon and stars just to secure it. This occurred right after Marvel pulled it's IP right from Cryptic. It left them with an engine and no games. They eventually secured CO, but it was guaranteed . More then like at or about the time ST , was secured. This put them in a bit of pinch as far releases and development , hence the crap we got.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
I know.... But he is a co-founder of the company and it did do good for years with him there. Consequently, I figured he was deserving a pass - for now. If after the others are gone and things dont change then clearly he be held at fault. Moreover I'm not sure if he was the one who came up with the asinine two-year cut and paste MMO development plan. For what it is worth, whomever had that bright idea should have their developer and gamer credentials revoked and then shot!
Personally, I would give Needham a pass before I gave one to Emmert; after all, Emmert's been know to stick his foot in it even back in CoH (E.D. anyone?). Emmert was also the one who, by his own admission in an interview on this website, insisted that the Klingon faction had to be in the game. To me, that makes him at least partially responsible for STO's state.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Actually he is responsible , they were desperate to get some sort of iconic IP , they would have promised the moon and stars just to secure it. This occurred right after Marvel pulled it's IP right from Cryptic. It left them with an engine and no games. They eventually secured CO, but it was guaranteed . More then like at or about the time ST , was secured. This put them in a bit of pinch as far releases and development , hence the crap we got.
Originally posted by Dinendae
Personally, I would give Needham a pass before I gave one to Emmert; after all, Emmert's been know to stick his foot in it even back in CoH (E.D. anyone?). Emmert was also the one who, by his own admission in an interview on this website, insisted that the Klingon faction had to be in the game. To me, that makes him at least partially responsible for STO's state.
Don't get me wrong: I would like Atari to get rid of both Needham and Emmert. However, if I had to choose, I would pick Emmert; he has done damage to games, while I'm not entirely sure if Needham has had any direct hand in the development of Cryptic games (other than assigning Zinc, Roper, Stahl, and Emmert to various posts).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Don't get me wrong: I would like Atari to get rid of both Needham and Emmert. However, if I had to choose, I would pick Emmert; he has done damage to games, while I'm not entirely sure if Needham has had any direct hand in the development of Cryptic games (other than assigning Zinc, Roper, Stahl, and Emmert to various posts).
No worries. I clearly understand your point. I just dont naturally like to fault company founders for big huge fuck-ups because they are - well... the founders. Moreover given my lack of seeing any direct evidence of scews-up I tend to error on the side of caution, especially for such people; nonetheless point taken.
Just hope some of you put a red alert on forums when those Craptic geniuses manage to get a job in another studio. I've learned that a failure will most probably remain a failure not mattering how many chances you give him. If one of Craptic guys lands on a MMO I'm looking to play I'll put a red cross on it like on all SOE games.
umm, you did realize that teh CEO of cryptic is an ex- SOE vice president didnt you?
and not all SOE employees are bad, the best public relations person ive run across used to work for them (exception, not the norm im thinking).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Just hope some of you put a red alert on forums when those Craptic geniuses manage to get a job in another studio. I've learned that a failure will most probably remain a failure not mattering how many chances you give him. If one of Craptic guys lands on a MMO I'm looking to play I'll put a red cross on it like on all SOE games.
umm, you did realize that teh CEO of cryptic is an ex- SOE vice president didnt you?
and not all SOE employees are bad, the best public relations person ive run across used to work for them (exception, not the norm im thinking).
Aye, I know that and of course I know that all employees in a compnany aren't wrong or bad. But that said the managament of a company may do some very wrong decions and basically all desions are up to the management. I wouln'd mind working in a SOE for good money but as a MMO player and a consumer I have my concerns over some studios MMO business is quite big and several companies are on stock market and consumers of their producs should demand more quality. You can expect certain quality from food companies, computer companies etc etc but MMO studios can sell us all s*** they want .
*shrugs* its entertainment/art. you cant really have enforcement for quality. if there was would uwe boll still be allowed to make movies?
i defend his right to make movies, but he really should just choose not to. sort of like cryptic should really choose to change their entire management team or just stop making mmo's, but they dont have to its just the right thing to do.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
*shrugs* its entertainment/art. you cant really have enforcement for quality. if there was would uwe boll still be allowed to make movies?
i defend his right to make movies, but he really should just choose not to. sort of like cryptic should really choose to change their entire management team or just stop making mmo's, but they dont have to its just the right thing to do.
I did not say anything againstfreedom of creativity. We are lucy as in the Western world everyone can make a game, movie or installation and present it to the public. That said I wouldn't buy paintings and scuplures from certain artists from my country. Anyway art is very much aesthetical, much more than a MMO made by a "AAA" company or whatever you like to call them. I can demand than stiches are well made in my new suit and hope that there will be a day when I can demand that a MMO doesn't have stiches to be seen.
Think about fashion shop taking cash monthy, selling crap and asking extra money for repair work. Sometimes I think that in the US I have everything for all my money (US has greatest service I've seen so far) when I pay unlike in Europe but in Europe we have consumer rights so much protected that I dare to demand the best service everywhere. I know that I won't get it anyway.
was not trying to say you had anything against freedom of creativity. my apologies if thats how it sounded.
was trying to point out that just because a company has the "legal right" to put a half finished, poorly designed product on the market, it doesnt mean they should or that its right.
as to your fashion shop... i would stop doing business with them, then warn everyone i could about there bad business practices. and thats what im doing here with cryptic, warning people about a company that has failed to deliver a decent product.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Just hope some of you put a red alert on forums when those Craptic geniuses manage to get a job in another studio. I've learned that a failure will most probably remain a failure not mattering how many chances you give him. If one of Craptic guys lands on a MMO I'm looking to play I'll put a red cross on it like on all SOE games.
umm, you did realize that teh CEO of cryptic is an ex- SOE vice president didnt you?
and not all SOE employees are bad, the best public relations person ive run across used to work for them (exception, not the norm im thinking).
Aye, I know that and of course I know that all employees in a compnany aren't wrong or bad. But that said the managament of a company may do some very wrong decions and basically all desions are up to the management. I wouln'd mind working in a SOE for good money but as a MMO player and a consumer I have my concerns over some studios MMO business is quite big and several companies are on stock market and consumers of their producs should demand more quality. You can expect certain quality from food companies, computer companies etc etc but MMO studios can sell us all s*** they want .
In the case of Mr. Needham, he was in charge of SOE's customer service department; that department, in my opinion, is what hurt SOE's reputation the most (until SWG's NGE incident happened, of course). This was the branch of SOE that actually called EQ players liars when they reported that the studded leather armor recipes were broken. Those recipes remained broken for a year or more, until a GM decided to play around with them one day and discovered (and then reported) that they were indeed broken.
Additionally I believe he had a hand in the development of the special EQ server, where for about $40.00 per month (four times the cost of playing the game on a normal server) you could actually get decent custmer service (something other games included for everyone at the standard subscription price), along with some other perks.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
In the case of Mr. Needham, he was in charge of SOE's customer service department; that department, in my opinion, is what hurt SOE's reputation the most (until SWG's NGE incident happened, of course). This was the branch of SOE that actually called EQ players liars when they reported that the studded leather armor recipes were broken. Those recipes remained broken for a year or more, until a GM decided to play around with them one day and discovered (and then reported) that they were indeed broken.
Additionally I believe he had a hand in the development of the special EQ server, where for about $40.00 per month (four times the cost of playing the game on a normal server) you could actually get decent custmer service (something other games included for everyone at the standard subscription price), along with some other perks.
That explains so much.
But it is unfair to mark out all the regular employees, this is Needham and Ataris fault. No one could have made a great game in 2 years. And the top people knew that too, they are the ones that made the game fail.
You could pick a superteam from Blizzard, ANET, ID software and any other competent company and they still couldn't do a good MMO in 2 years. And no, I don't work or have worked at Cryptic but I had my share of idiot bosses that only wants some cash fast instead of having people doing a good job and earning more in the long run.
And you can say what you want of SOE but even they wouldn't do this to such an IP, only Cryptic would. Now they probably planning to do the same to Forgotten realms...
But it is unfair to mark out all the regular employees, this is Needham and Ataris fault. No one could have made a great game in 2 years. And the top people knew that too, they are the ones that made the game fail.
You could pick a superteam from Blizzard, ANET, ID software and any other competent company and they still couldn't do a good MMO in 2 years. And no, I don't work or have worked at Cryptic but I had my share of idiot bosses that only wants some cash fast instead of having people doing a good job and earning more in the long run.
And you can say what you want of SOE but even they wouldn't do this to such an IP, only Cryptic would. Now they probably planning to do the same to Forgotten realms...
And I never have trashed Cryptic's rank and file; quite the contrary, I have in the past praised the general workers of Cryptic. When I talk about Cryptic, or bring up what Cryptic has done wrong I am (unless I state otherwise) speaking of the exexcutive team (the guys who make the critical decisions). They were the ones who decided on the subscription + cash shop model, the 2.5D movement for STO, and worse yet (in my opinion) thinking they could not only produce a good MMO in 18-24 months, but in think they could produce two at the same time.
You are correct about no one being able to make a quality MMO in just a couple years, let alone two. I mean even Blizzard, who has the resources to do so, hasn't tried to develop two MMOs at the same time, with such a short time frame. Cryptic's Devs had to know that as well, which leads me to believe that someone high up decided to say "Screw quality, let's try to milk as much money as possible and then push a new MMO out as quick as we can." Perhaps I am hoping against hope, but I still think that someone, somewhere in Atari has to have said "Let's put a stop to this D&D MMO, at least until the lawsuit is settled, and work on something else instead." It's improbable I know, but not impossible.
*edit for additional comment* Other than their horrid customer service, I really don't have a problem with SOE; I wasn't really big on the sandbox approach to SWG, so I had no problem personally with the NGE. I can however understand the sentiments of those that hated it, especially the way they did it: Launching the NGE a couple weeks after an expansion, making everything (including that expansion) null and void, was just wrong. However, I also realize that LucasArts was the one initially pushing for the change; SOE should have said "No!"
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
But it is unfair to mark out all the regular employees, this is Needham and Ataris fault. No one could have made a great game in 2 years. And the top people knew that too, they are the ones that made the game fail.
You could pick a superteam from Blizzard, ANET, ID software and any other competent company and they still couldn't do a good MMO in 2 years. And no, I don't work or have worked at Cryptic but I had my share of idiot bosses that only wants some cash fast instead of having people doing a good job and earning more in the long run.
And you can say what you want of SOE but even they wouldn't do this to such an IP, only Cryptic would. Now they probably planning to do the same to Forgotten realms...
i completely disagree, i dont think you could convince people who work at the mentioned companies to leave there gainful employment in established succesful business', to go commit carreer suicide because mr. needham said it could be done.
you could pick them, but they wouldnt come!
oh and even if you could get them... no they couldn't do it.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
But it is unfair to mark out all the regular employees, this is Needham and Ataris fault. No one could have made a great game in 2 years. And the top people knew that too, they are the ones that made the game fail.
You could pick a superteam from Blizzard, ANET, ID software and any other competent company and they still couldn't do a good MMO in 2 years. And no, I don't work or have worked at Cryptic but I had my share of idiot bosses that only wants some cash fast instead of having people doing a good job and earning more in the long run.
And you can say what you want of SOE but even they wouldn't do this to such an IP, only Cryptic would. Now they probably planning to do the same to Forgotten realms...
i completely disagree, i dont think you could convince people who work at the mentioned companies to leave there gainful employment in established succesful business', to go commit carreer suicide because mr. needham said it could be done.
you could pick them, but they wouldnt come!
oh and even if you could get them... no they couldn't do it.
That was his point, not that a team from more competently run companies would try due to Needham.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
sarcasm... doesnt come across as well in type i guess
Generally, no. =P
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Bill Roper gained noteriety for a previous MMO, Hellgate: London. I never tried that one, but from what I heard the game had many problems and closed down permanently very quickly (leaving those who had purchased lifetimes subs out of luck). He joined up with Cryptic and was in charge of CO, and then became the head guy for STO for a bit; that happened after STO had launched though, even though people were incorrectly blaming him for STO's problems before STO had launched. After the short stint as head of STO, he replaced Jack Emmert as CCO of Cryptic Studios (Jack became the COO).
Due to his involvement with Hellgate:London and then Cryptic Studios, he's pretty much despised now. Those who played Hellgate: London seem to dislike him the most, not that I can blame those who had paid for lifetime subscriptions only to lose out big like that. I have always felt that Roper was positioned to be a fall guy for Cryptic Studios (and particularly STO): although he has generated a lot of valid criticism, Cryptic seemed to move him from spot to spot in order to draw the ire of their players to him. Given that we have had two of the executive team bigwigs depart this close together, his departure does raise an interesting question: Has Atari finally had enough of Cryptic's poor performance, and are they now (quietly) cleaning house? If so, I wonder if Needham or Emmert are next?
My thoughts too more importantly for me though is when will Emmert get the boot? I'm firmly convinced he is the problem there. I played COH at launch and recall the amount of venom spewed at him and for the longest time I've never really understood. While seing him in interviews he did always remind me of a "nerd" who's lunch money I may have wanted to snatch in school I didn't see or hear anything worthy of so much dislike.
After playing COH for somewhere close to a year I had pretty much figured out it would never have the depth I had grown used to in other mmo's but it was still fun yet I had to move on. Then comes Cryptic and Champions just plain horrible and made even more so with Jacks battle lines drawn in the sand with his constant bashing of COH yet here was Champions which literally looked and played like a game five years older than COH and low and behold after playing it I got the same feeling that I got from COH only less warm and fuzzy, it was incredibly shallow and lacking in features and was nowhere near as fun (even has the lesser character creator if you ask me) as it's predecessor.
Then we get the Star Trek announcement, I'm embarassed to admit I'm one of the people who found excitment in the idea of Cryptic developing this game instead of Perpetual. I know Cryptic already and while I knew the faults with their products I didn't view them as unacceptable as Funcom and SOE usually rank. I defended the game on these very forums and debated those who branded the game a failure before even beta was out.
Played STO and low and behold again another lackluster game on the market, now there are companies I just don't deal with simply because it isn't my cup of tea and Crpytic could have easily went into this category if not for one thing. The C-Store. Emmert now is trying to position his company like Turbine it isn't even funny what almost is though is if any company should have the audacity to charge a sub fee while also offering a cash shop it should be Turbine and not this bare bones company.
After reading lot's of posts and links to articles I now finally understand what makes Emmert such a lame. He is a prime example of the saying "they just don't get it". He get's an idea in his head and refuses to move away from it no matter what anyone else says and that's all well and good if your ideas coincide with most of your player base but his never do. I'm hard pressed right now to think of anything ever said by Emmert that I agreed with.
The biggest hope I have for this game is that like Funcom did when getting rid of Gaute or even like when NCSoft got COH away from him Cryptic can become something close to what the masses can accept.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Comments
what annoyed me about Bill Roper was how he blatantly lied about his products to the press- Hellgate was supposed to have a lot of things that Bill said was going to be in the game.. which instead turned out to be pure crap (Ie. Peter Molyeneux syndrome). I'm just glad he's not been as vocal about STO.
As for knowing Bill was going to work on STO, he wasn't arround when I bought the game, it was only once I had paid for it that it ended up being a "Oh shit!" moment that I couldn't bail from. Whilst I can't blame him for STO failing, I can however blame him for Hellgate, and he more than deserves it.
I don't blame people for hating him after what he did with failgate london. But for some reason STO seems to be going down the same path that Hellgate did- ie. Only focusing on bug fixes, adding content that no one wanted, ignoring why their game sucks. I'm wondering how many people at Cryptic are Ex-Flagship? I'm guessing a lot because it seems all so similar. (same community even, people pissed at the devs and the devs ignoring them, and the moderators banning everyone).
With "Z" gone and now "dollar bill" there is really one more "bad egg" to get rid of and that is John [Needham]. The STO & CO situations transpired under his watch and he is the guy that should man-up and step down as far as I'm concerned.
Then maybe Cryptic can pull a comeback and save itself and more importantly the franchises from the dustbin of history.
You are forgetting Emmert. As for Needham, considering he is the CEO, I think he'll probably manage to hold on to his job by passing the buck.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
CEOs don't do the hiring. They are media pieces who for the most part have no say on what happens in a project. Producers and directors are the people to blame for a crap game. All the ceo/president does is make business deals.
you mean business deals like "hell yeah, we can make a "AAA" mmo in two years, no probleem at all!"
obviously the ceo was completely blameless on that one.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Actually he is responsible , they were desperate to get some sort of iconic IP , they would have promised the moon and stars just to secure it. This occurred right after Marvel pulled it's IP right from Cryptic. It left them with an engine and no games. They eventually secured CO, but it was guaranteed . More then like at or about the time ST , was secured. This put them in a bit of pinch as far releases and development , hence the crap we got.
Personally, I would give Needham a pass before I gave one to Emmert; after all, Emmert's been know to stick his foot in it even back in CoH (E.D. anyone?). Emmert was also the one who, by his own admission in an interview on this website, insisted that the Klingon faction had to be in the game. To me, that makes him at least partially responsible for STO's state.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Hmmmm.... I stand corrected.
Don't get me wrong: I would like Atari to get rid of both Needham and Emmert. However, if I had to choose, I would pick Emmert; he has done damage to games, while I'm not entirely sure if Needham has had any direct hand in the development of Cryptic games (other than assigning Zinc, Roper, Stahl, and Emmert to various posts).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
No worries. I clearly understand your point. I just dont naturally like to fault company founders for big huge fuck-ups because they are - well... the founders. Moreover given my lack of seeing any direct evidence of scews-up I tend to error on the side of caution, especially for such people; nonetheless point taken.
umm, you did realize that teh CEO of cryptic is an ex- SOE vice president didnt you?
and not all SOE employees are bad, the best public relations person ive run across used to work for them (exception, not the norm im thinking).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
*shrugs* its entertainment/art. you cant really have enforcement for quality. if there was would uwe boll still be allowed to make movies?
i defend his right to make movies, but he really should just choose not to. sort of like cryptic should really choose to change their entire management team or just stop making mmo's, but they dont have to its just the right thing to do.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
was not trying to say you had anything against freedom of creativity. my apologies if thats how it sounded.
was trying to point out that just because a company has the "legal right" to put a half finished, poorly designed product on the market, it doesnt mean they should or that its right.
as to your fashion shop... i would stop doing business with them, then warn everyone i could about there bad business practices. and thats what im doing here with cryptic, warning people about a company that has failed to deliver a decent product.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
In the case of Mr. Needham, he was in charge of SOE's customer service department; that department, in my opinion, is what hurt SOE's reputation the most (until SWG's NGE incident happened, of course). This was the branch of SOE that actually called EQ players liars when they reported that the studded leather armor recipes were broken. Those recipes remained broken for a year or more, until a GM decided to play around with them one day and discovered (and then reported) that they were indeed broken.
Additionally I believe he had a hand in the development of the special EQ server, where for about $40.00 per month (four times the cost of playing the game on a normal server) you could actually get decent custmer service (something other games included for everyone at the standard subscription price), along with some other perks.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
That explains so much.
But it is unfair to mark out all the regular employees, this is Needham and Ataris fault. No one could have made a great game in 2 years. And the top people knew that too, they are the ones that made the game fail.
You could pick a superteam from Blizzard, ANET, ID software and any other competent company and they still couldn't do a good MMO in 2 years. And no, I don't work or have worked at Cryptic but I had my share of idiot bosses that only wants some cash fast instead of having people doing a good job and earning more in the long run.
And you can say what you want of SOE but even they wouldn't do this to such an IP, only Cryptic would. Now they probably planning to do the same to Forgotten realms...
And I never have trashed Cryptic's rank and file; quite the contrary, I have in the past praised the general workers of Cryptic. When I talk about Cryptic, or bring up what Cryptic has done wrong I am (unless I state otherwise) speaking of the exexcutive team (the guys who make the critical decisions). They were the ones who decided on the subscription + cash shop model, the 2.5D movement for STO, and worse yet (in my opinion) thinking they could not only produce a good MMO in 18-24 months, but in think they could produce two at the same time.
You are correct about no one being able to make a quality MMO in just a couple years, let alone two. I mean even Blizzard, who has the resources to do so, hasn't tried to develop two MMOs at the same time, with such a short time frame. Cryptic's Devs had to know that as well, which leads me to believe that someone high up decided to say "Screw quality, let's try to milk as much money as possible and then push a new MMO out as quick as we can." Perhaps I am hoping against hope, but I still think that someone, somewhere in Atari has to have said "Let's put a stop to this D&D MMO, at least until the lawsuit is settled, and work on something else instead." It's improbable I know, but not impossible.
*edit for additional comment* Other than their horrid customer service, I really don't have a problem with SOE; I wasn't really big on the sandbox approach to SWG, so I had no problem personally with the NGE. I can however understand the sentiments of those that hated it, especially the way they did it: Launching the NGE a couple weeks after an expansion, making everything (including that expansion) null and void, was just wrong. However, I also realize that LucasArts was the one initially pushing for the change; SOE should have said "No!"
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
i completely disagree, i dont think you could convince people who work at the mentioned companies to leave there gainful employment in established succesful business', to go commit carreer suicide because mr. needham said it could be done.
you could pick them, but they wouldnt come!
oh and even if you could get them... no they couldn't do it.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
That was his point, not that a team from more competently run companies would try due to Needham.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
sarcasm... doesnt come across as well in type i guess
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Generally, no. =P
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
My thoughts too more importantly for me though is when will Emmert get the boot? I'm firmly convinced he is the problem there. I played COH at launch and recall the amount of venom spewed at him and for the longest time I've never really understood. While seing him in interviews he did always remind me of a "nerd" who's lunch money I may have wanted to snatch in school I didn't see or hear anything worthy of so much dislike.
After playing COH for somewhere close to a year I had pretty much figured out it would never have the depth I had grown used to in other mmo's but it was still fun yet I had to move on. Then comes Cryptic and Champions just plain horrible and made even more so with Jacks battle lines drawn in the sand with his constant bashing of COH yet here was Champions which literally looked and played like a game five years older than COH and low and behold after playing it I got the same feeling that I got from COH only less warm and fuzzy, it was incredibly shallow and lacking in features and was nowhere near as fun (even has the lesser character creator if you ask me) as it's predecessor.
Then we get the Star Trek announcement, I'm embarassed to admit I'm one of the people who found excitment in the idea of Cryptic developing this game instead of Perpetual. I know Cryptic already and while I knew the faults with their products I didn't view them as unacceptable as Funcom and SOE usually rank. I defended the game on these very forums and debated those who branded the game a failure before even beta was out.
Played STO and low and behold again another lackluster game on the market, now there are companies I just don't deal with simply because it isn't my cup of tea and Crpytic could have easily went into this category if not for one thing. The C-Store. Emmert now is trying to position his company like Turbine it isn't even funny what almost is though is if any company should have the audacity to charge a sub fee while also offering a cash shop it should be Turbine and not this bare bones company.
After reading lot's of posts and links to articles I now finally understand what makes Emmert such a lame. He is a prime example of the saying "they just don't get it". He get's an idea in his head and refuses to move away from it no matter what anyone else says and that's all well and good if your ideas coincide with most of your player base but his never do. I'm hard pressed right now to think of anything ever said by Emmert that I agreed with.
The biggest hope I have for this game is that like Funcom did when getting rid of Gaute or even like when NCSoft got COH away from him Cryptic can become something close to what the masses can accept.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....