Gamers already know how to use a pad. Some will adjust, some don't care and the rest just can't agree with it. I've played beta with a 360 pad, PS3, Logitech Rumble and some third name brand I got for free. While playing with the pad obviously works fine, I and many others just aren't comfortable with it.
It's too restrictive. Having to push the d-pad/joystick 5 times to right to select that action, then back 5 times to select that action. Having to open a menu, scroll down to select that option you're looking for instead of, I don't know...pressing a single key on the keyboard or mouse to open it up? And those are just the simpler issues.
Sounds like playing *any* FF game on a console to me. The games have always been menu-driven, and FFXI is no different. Having most of the abilities on the hotbar is a completely new outlook for the series in general, even if it's something that's been done a million times, by a million other MMOs.
The main trick would be to customize your controller settings to use the 1-8 hotbar as directions on the right analog, or in conjunction with a shoulder button. Tons of things you can do with those ya know?
There are only so many buttons on a gamepad though. And they would feel awkward if they have more then they have now.
The point, SE has no reason to be restricting the keyboard+mouse players. The hotbar is there. Now, lets make use of it properly instead of just having it for the sake of having it. It's half assed, something we shouldn't be expecting.
You, feeling restricted by SE is ''rofl'' worthy.
The game is not catering to your need? That is hard to swallow it seem...
Now, what do you do when a game isn't design to your liking? I'll tell you the logical thing to do.
Wait for a game that actually fit your idea on how an MMO should work.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
Edit: For some of you who say this is a bad business model then FFXI clearly proves you wrong. I remember during the middle of FFXI, people HATED it, but that didn't stop half a million people from enjoying it. By any objective measure, FFXI was a huge sucess, so sorry if i'm goin to side with SE when it comes to who knows more about making a sucessful mmo.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
Tutorials are fine as they are, introductory leves are more than enough to teach you what stuff are about. They teach you how to play the game, how to optimize your game time however is up to you. Personally I don't want the game to hold my hand, I'd rather figure out some things on my own sometimes.
Concerning the infamous "end game", I think people are going to be overwhelmed with stuff to do, there's a lot to learn. It'll take at least a month to simply get the hang of how everything works and is related as it's a FF game first of all, and an MMO second. Lots of people are going to have to either adapt or quit.
If the so-called hardcore content is a month or 2 late, who cares? That's not what's important, WoW had one instance as endgame content and people stuck with it 'cause it was a great game. Focusing on the game play, mechanics, and feel of the game > end game content. As long as it's a good game people will stick with it.
As of now there's no reason to have mana regen as the mana available is sufficient for most guild leves and even while grinding there's always an atheryte relatively close by, in addition to potions and mana regen abilities. You gotta be aware of your mana reserves and not spam spells lavishly without thought though, and I don't mind it in the least.
Guildleve cooldown is fine as it is. People with an hour of game play per day can easily fill that hour with guildleves. There will be considerably more guildleves than currently, you don't really need to do the same guildleve every day.
/SIGNED
Im still happy, Cup is still half full. theyll get to the other things when they get to them, its playble. and Im glad you cant grind one Guildleve all day, how boring would that be..... share with others and have some fun!
Good thing I have read the actual thread, you edited the interview to make it sound like they won't do anything while infact they will eventually.
Bad thing you have not read the actual OP. he was just saying stuff wont be available for launch
Yeah i read the interview and then came here and saw the post good percent of the actual interview was cut out and modified.
I just summarized it, rather than ripping the entire interview from the other site. The link is the first thing in the post! I know a lot of people rip off stuff from other sites wholesale, with out a thought, but I don't do that. I also tried to objectively represent the points made. I even highlighted not for launch so it would be clear.
Its nice to see that they are attempting to fix most of these problems, but like others have said, the mouse support troubles me. I played FFXI with keyboard only, and grew to love it, but I prefer keyboard + mouse as it feels more natural. Its still silly that a PC game insists that you use a gamepad over the norm of a keyboard and mouse because the controls/lag are so horrid.
Overall I am disappointed with SE. There have been a lot of simple problems that can potentially ruin a gamers enjoyment of the game and are easy fixes. Why they're so heisitant to fix them it boggles the mind.
Sounds to me, through various posts like these, many of the OP's and responders complaining about these subjects have probably never touched FFXI.
If you haven't you can't speak on what FFXIV should be. IMO after playing XI for years, XIV has changes to a good system in XI that will make it great in XIV.
Played it for six months.
BTW, I have concerns. Why? The interview addresses most of the major issues surfacing in player feedback and in many cases shows that they aren't going to address them in time for launch.
To be clear as well, I'm still planning on playing. I'm not concerned specifically about my play experience, but rather about the way the game will be received at launch.
It's a promising game. It's also a game where people will have enough of a learning curve adjusting to a different kind of MMO experience, with out having to fight a clunky UI or other issues which have raised serious red flags for many, many testers.
Personally, I think the most frustrating thing on the list is the lack of hardware mouse support, not because it's the most serious concern, but because a. the software mouse support is horrendous and b. because direct input hardware mouse support is one of the easiest things you could add to a program. I just don't get why this wouldn't have been addressed long ago?
I'll bring things right back to the interview. I do find it concerning that in an interview that asks about some of the most widely expressed concerns among the beta testers, in many cases the response is not for launch. Most of us have been assuming that these things would be fixed for launch and have said so often as a caveat against those who have been turned off by beta, or news coming out of beta.
So, we really are up against the fact that the game probably is being released too early. That almost always is a very bad sign for how a game will fare and will leave some people who are looking forward to the game a bit frustrated.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
/clap
You nailed it!
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
While sticking to their guns in commendable, some of their choices are making even the loyal XI players go "Wha?". I've played XI for years. I've been infatuated with XIV ever since it was called Rapture.
We are not asking SE to overhaul the game, or cater to specific target markets. We're not saying to ditch the gamepad completey and go with keyboard+mouse. We're saying they can make it comfortable for both types of players, so why don't they? SE has no good reason to not implement hardware mouse, that's not even an argument. It's just them going "just 'cause /shrug shoulders". Yeah, that's real professional.
The point is...some decisions SE has made seem archaic, half assed and just down right confusing. This is SEs second developed MMO now, and it's going to heavily decide how their future MMO projects will play out. Will they become another Cryptic studios? Or will they be the first studio to deliver critically acclaimed back to back MMOs? Right now, it's seems like the former.
I find it hard to believe you people don't have one negative thing to say about the game. I don't care how much of a God damn fanboy you are, in it's current state, everyone has some doubts about it. The smarter ones will give SE until Christmas to clean up the game, as wil I. And we can judge a game by its beta, especially when it's only a month away.
And it's laughable people think XI is still holding that number of subscriptions. Hellooooooo, did you miss the memo about server merges? It's probably hovering about half of what it was a couple years ago. And this isn't about XI anymore. Stop talking about it. That was years ago.
Things. Have. Changed. Get that through your heads.
This may be 'fangirly' of me but I'm really not concerned. FFXIV is a game I want to play therefore I have no problem not using a mouse to play it. I already looked at some parts of the manual and the keyboard set-up seems completely reasonable and it seems that they've placed everything in places that I would of placed them... Plus I'm sure I'll adjust. It's like going from automatic to stick. Or learning how to roller-blade. They wouldn't be special or fun if it were the same.
But I think it's because in the past they've done things in a way I liked and can appreciate so I know regardless I can adjust to get what I want out of the game. Makes it feel new.
I remember it took me a while to adjust to FFXI, so even though this UI is a bit worse, I'm sure you'll make the transition. Just keep at it and don't get frustrated.
I'd definitely recommend considering a good gamepad. The UI is designed around it. It's still a little clunky as a controller UI as well, but a lot better than keyboard, for me anyway. The only downside is that targeting during a fight using just the controller can be extremely frustrating. You just have to be ready to jump to keyboard or mouse in some situations. (Controller in one hand, or on your lap).
I switched from a PS2 style pad to an XBox 360 gamepad and like it a lot. Personal preference though, either style controller can work.
I do really wish they allowed free key rebinding though. I think keyboard mouse would work just fine if you could bind to personal preference (and if the mouse lag was fixed).
BTW, I have concerns. Why? The interview addresses most of the major issues surfacing in player feedback and in many cases shows that they aren't going to address them in time for launch.
To be clear as well, I'm still planning on playing. I'm not concerned specifically about my play experience, but rather about the way the game will be received at launch.
It's a promising game. It's also a game where people will have enough of a learning curve adjusting to a different kind of MMO experience, with out having to fight a clunky UI or other issues which have raised serious red flags for many, many testers.
Personally, I think the most frustrating thing on the list is the lack of hardware mouse support, not because it's the most serious concern, but because a. the software mouse support is horrendous and b. because direct input hardware mouse support is one of the easiest things you could add to a program. I just don't get why this wouldn't have been addressed long ago?
I'll bring things right back to the interview. I do find it concerning that in an interview that asks about some of the most widely expressed concerns among the beta testers, in many cases the response is not for launch. Most of us have been assuming that these things would be fixed for launch and have said so often as a caveat against those who have been turned off by beta, or news coming out of beta.
So, we really are up against the fact that the game probably is being released too early. That almost always is a very bad sign for how a game will fare and will leave some people who are looking forward to the game a bit frustrated.
This x a gajillion.
While I love the game to death and would gladly buy the game if it launched tomorrow, the fact that they're glossing over such simple things does worry me a lot. The game is 35-ish days from launch, and there's not even an inventory sorting option in the game. All your items are strewn about in the menu and it's a little frustrating. (Players shouldn't have to run back to their retainer and sort their inventory that way, either.)
You also can't have more than six people in a group without the game constantly crashing from AoE cure/buff effects.
Don't even bother trying to use the con system to tell how strong monsters are, too. I had a decent challenge (green) do 300 damage to me. (I'm a 17 CON with about 420 HP or so.) And that was after Stoneskin took the blunt of the damage.
I could go on, but you get the point. Love the game, would pay to play retail now, but the bugs won't go over well with many people. Especially those who recently joined the MMO community and have never gone through a true launch yet.
Originally posted by alkrmr
game should just be scrapped now, save alot of people's time and money
Remind me to hire you for business consulting. {sarcasm}
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
/clap
You nailed it!
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
While sticking to their guns in commendable, some of their choices are making even the loyal XI players go "Wha?". I've played XI for years. I've been infatuated with XIV ever since it was called Rapture.
We are not asking SE to overhaul the game, or cater to specific target markets. We're not saying to ditch the gamepad completey and go with keyboard+mouse. We're saying they can make it comfortable for both types of players, so why don't they? SE has no good reason to not implement hardware mouse, that's not even an argument. It's just them going "just 'cause /shrug shoulders". Yeah, that's real professional.
The point is...some decisions SE has made seem archaic, half assed and just down right confusing. This is SEs second developed MMO now, and it's going to heavily decide how their future MMO projects will play out. Will they become another Cryptic studios? Or will they be the first studio to deliver critically acclaimed back to back MMOs? Right now, it's seems like the former.
I find it hard to believe you people don't have one negative thing to say about the game. I don't care how much of a God damn fanboy you are, in it's current state, everyone has some doubts about it. The smarter ones will give SE until Christmas to clean up the game, as wil I. And we can judge a game by its beta, especially when it's only a month away.
And it's laughable people think XI is still holding that number of subscriptions. Hellooooooo, did you miss the memo about server merges? It's probably hovering about half of what it was a couple years ago. And this isn't about XI anymore. Stop talking about it. That was years ago.
Things. Have. Changed. Get that through your heads.
I can give you an answer on why I think they're doing this, but you may not like it.
FFXIV will not be as successful in the west and in Europe compared to Japan/Asia. I'm willing to bet money that 70% of FFXIV subscribers will be primarily from Japan/Asia. The decision to make changes in the game is dictated by which portion of their subscriber base they want to placate.
Not only was FFXI far bigger in Japan than in the west, but the PS3 was the format of choice for FFXI. I've posted in the past about the delicate balance between controller vs. keyboard and mouse.
It's not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse just like any other mmo, because it would render the controller obsolete. SE has to make the controller and keyboard/mouse have to be as equal as possible. Making a keyboard and mouse 10/10 will by default, make controller 7/10. So, as a necessary evil, to balance all platforms, keyboard/mouse has to fall to the lowest common denominator (e.g. The controller).
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's a fact. SE's largest player base is japanese players and the prefer a controller. Unlike most other mmos, FFXIV is a console and a pc game, so it has to balance considerations that other mmo's will never have to address. We are seeing all the problems are created based on this delicate balance.
To be honest, FFXI was the same. 85% of the MMO population HATED FFXI, but 500-750K LOVE IT. SE is designing FFXIV for it's loyal fans.
Again, the only thing I can say is that FFXI was great, but it became great. It had issues in the beginning. SE's track record speaks for itself. I have more faith in SE than I do about the mmo population in general. You will NEVER create a unique game if you cater to majority rule. If you cave in to majority rule, you will have ALL mmo's becomming carbon copies of each other. Peopel will want to impart all their features of their favorite mmos. I prefer SE sticking to its guns, it ensures FFXIV at the very least, will be different.
Edit: And to address the issue of being a loyal fanboi to teh very end without finding any fault in SE is a little true. I am a fanboi. I knew FFXI wasn't perfect, it had issues, but what it did well was awesome. I loved the music, the weapon skills, the difficulty, the community, the emphasis on party, the emphasis on pve, crafting, etc. There were so many things that made me love the game that I completely didn't care about the other stuff. I just adapted to the other stuff and moved on.
I think FFXIV will be the same way. If the story is awesome, if the combat is fun, then the UI issues will be less of an issue once you just move on from it and focus on what you enjoy. But, for some people FFXI's UI was game breaking and didn't play. I went from keyboard/mouse to controller and never looked back. I think if people are honest with themselves, they will realize that FFXIV isn't for them and they should move on. A lot of people were hoping FFXIV was the savior to fill a void in their mmo hearts. People are comming to the realization that it isn't what they envisioned. But, that's the person's problem, not SE's.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
/clap
You nailed it!
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
snip
What are you talking about? What conversation... its his first post in this thread. Are you mental or something?
Anyways, this is pointless whinning as SE already said whats going to be at release... Don't you see that?
That said, its late so I'll grant your wish.
Gn!
edit: Hray is saying the exact same thing in more words. Sorry, but to get that kind of reply from me, you'd need to not be the little whinners, that can't accept the game doesn't cater to the NA mainsteream, that you all are.
What need to be fixed will be ( name one bug infested SE game... there isn't one.) & intended game mechanics will stay. ty
Sweet! I am actually very happy about number six. lol
That alone should weed out some of the retards that shouldn't even touch this game in the first place.
Hip hip hurray!
You're happy that SE is so short sited, that they are completely ignoring even the most basic pc control elements that were standard a decade ago, and are making a sub standard mmo as far as pc mmos go, to cater to their target audience, the console gamers? No, they are doing it their way & you don't like it that's all. oh, & their target is FFXI & FF fan in general... not just console btw. You don't like it, don't play it. Simple...
If SE had any business sense, they would have made the pc and ps3 version seperately, with different controls and ui, and have pc and ps3 exclusive servers, instead of trying to force a combat and control system thats deliberately clunky, layered and slow on a pc, so it can be played on the controller. Again, you( & other like you ) not liking it =/= clunky. Fact. SE said that the slownest should be fixed with a few more tweak & removal of testing software.
It's not often you see a company invest so much money into a game and then deliberately annoy a large segment of mmo players, if I was a SE investor I'd be pretty damn pissed right now, since the company seems to be run by stubborn, short sited and arrogant fools that think they can strong arm people into playing the game their way, ignoring all feedback and industry standard controls/ui, and pretty much giving people the finger when they point out the games obvious and glaring flaws. Maybe investors thrust SE to make a game that will have as much success as FFXI for years to come... there's your money. jeez... They don't want millions of players, just a loyal fan following that will keep bringing in money for more than a few months. If you wonder what they are doing, look at FFXI & you'll have your answer.
This kind of crap might have worked when FF11 was released, but it's not gonna work today, especially with games like rift/swtor/GW2 on the horizon, it would have saved the SE devs alot of time if they just started flushing stacks of cash down the toilet than to try to release this game on a pc in its current state. They aren't aiming for the same crowd. SE is going to watch the upcoming titles you mention battleling it out for the mainstream market & fail. All the while laughing to the bank due to FFXIV doing pretty well in its niche. Thats what you fail to understand.
That's your opinion & nothing else bud...
Sir you seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder about this game. I will fight to the death your right to say it but I ask you to not wish misfortune on other folks. If people are interested and looking forward to the game there is no need to kick them while they are down. That is just being mean spirited and rude.
I can give you an answer on why I think they're doing this, but you may not like it.
FFXIV will not be as successful in the west and in Europe compared to Japan/Asia. I'm willing to bet money that 70% of FFXIV subscribers will be primarily from Japan/Asia. The decision to make changes in the game is dictated by which portion of their subscriber base they want to placate.
Not only was FFXI far bigger in Japan than in the west, but the PS3 was the format of choice for FFXI. I've posted in the past about the delicate balance between controller vs. keyboard and mouse.
That's a sorry excuse really. People are talking about a vision SE has for the game. Right now, it's the lack of vision that's the problem.
It's not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse just like any other mmo, because it would render the controller obsolete. SE has to make the controller and keyboard/mouse have to be as equal as possible. Making a keyboard and mouse 10/10 will by default, make controller 7/10. So, as a necessary evil, to balance all platforms, keyboard/mouse has to fall to the lowest common denominator (e.g. The controller).
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's a fact. SE's largest player base is japanese players and the prefer a controller. Unlike most other mmos, FFXIV is a console and a pc game, so it has to balance considerations that other mmo's will never have to address. We are seeing all the problems are created based on this delicate balance.
I'll agree SEs largest player base is the Japanese population. But you thinking most of those people prefer a gamepad over a keyboard+mouse for a MMO is pure speculation. Just to note by the way, it's not just the NA and EU beta boards that are clamoring about the pathetic excuse of a keyboard+mouse support for the game. The Japanese beta boards are also filled with it.
Also, it's not like the PS3 can't have a mouse or keyboard either. It has USB ports for a reason. Again, there is no reason for SE not to implement better controls for the keyboard+mouse. Going half assed is more of an insult really. If they weren't going to implement them decently, why do it in the first place? Just make it all gamepad focused like XI then the garbage we have now. The PS3 can utilize a keyboard and mouse to their fullest. SEs known this for years, yet they still go with a most gamepad support. Lack of vision indeed.
To be honest, FFXI was the same. 85% of the MMO population HATED FFXI, but 500-750K LOVE IT. SE is designing FFXIV for it's loyal fans.
Again, the only thing I can say is that FFXI was great, but it became great. It had issues in the beginning. SE's track record speaks for itself. I have more faith in SE than I do about the mmo population in general. You will NEVER create a unique game if you cater to majority rule. If you cave in to majority rule, you will have ALL mmo's becomming carbon copies of each other. Peopel will want to impart all their features of their favorite mmos. I prefer SE sticking to its guns, it ensures FFXIV at the very least, will be different.
Again, most the naysayers are not asking SE to diverge from their path. Just make smarter decisions. There is no reason not to have hardware mouse support. There is no reason not to have a search function for the market wards. There is no reason not to have the UI be controlled client side, as opposed to the crap server side they have now. SE claims it for security reasons...bull freaking shit. It's a step away from using a DRM IMO. So completely pointless that just degrades the overall quality of the game.
Cheaters will always find a way to cheat. And like you said, the faster SE gets this, the better it will be for everyone.
Edit: And to address the issue of being a loyal fanboi to teh very end without finding any fault in SE is a little true. I am a fanboi. I knew FFXI wasn't perfect, it had issues, but what it did well was awesome. I loved the music, the weapon skills, the difficulty, the community, the emphasis on party, the emphasis on pve, crafting, etc. There were so many things that made me love the game that I completely didn't care about the other stuff. I just adapted to the other stuff and moved on.
I think FFXIV will be the same way. If the story is awesome, if the combat is fun, then the UI issues will be less of an issue once you just move on from it and focus on what you enjoy. But, for some people FFXI's UI was game breaking and didn't play. I went from keyboard/mouse to controller and never looked back. I think if people are honest with themselves, they will realize that FFXIV isn't for them and they should move on. A lot of people were hoping FFXIV was the savior to fill a void in their mmo hearts. People are comming to the realization that it isn't what they envisioned. But, that's the person's problem, not SE's.
See, the problem is...I am coming from XI. With a mix of other MMOs...well, all of the ones between WoW and XIV actually. I've experienced them all. And I can tell you right now...XIV will flop even worse then XI in its current state. It's a broken, incomplete game. And it isn't just me. If you go to the big XIV fan sites like Eorzeapedia, majority of members there are former XI players who loved the game. We were all expecting something one up with this, besides the graphical bit.
Go read the Core interview again. SE is basically saying, right to our faces, that the game will launch half assed. It will launch with a beta mind set, where they'll be monitoring what people are saying about and maybe think about implementing systems that people have been clamoring for since alpha.
Hray is saying the exact same thing in more words. Sorry, but to get that kind of reply from me, you'd need to not be the little whinners, that can't accept the game doesn't cater to the NA mainsteream, that you all are.
Wow, could've fooled me. 'Cause all you were doing was plugging your ears and going "lalalalalala" like a 6 year old. What's the matter little boy, can't take a little critique directed towards your golden egg? Tell me, do you also have wet dreams about it too? Don't be shy now, tell the truth.
What need to be fixed will be ( name one bug infested SE game... there isn't one.) & intended game mechanics will stay. ty
Bwahaha...good job bringing in that idiotic argument. Yes siree, lets compare a supposedly next gen MMO with single player, console titles. Retard lol. Please...just go away D=
I think it's more of a final fantasy than it is an mmo.
I think a lot of people are having trouble grasping FFXIV because they start with your premise, that it's supposed to be like other mmos. If you played FFXI on a controller, it felt more like a FF game than an MMo. But that's just me.
90% of people have never played an MMO on a controller.... It's soooo awesome.
I think it's more of a final fantasy than it is an mmo.
I think a lot of people are having trouble grasping FFXIV because they start with your premise, that it's supposed to be like other mmos. If you played FFXI on a controller, it felt more like a FF game than an MMo. But that's just me.
90% of people have never played an MMO on a controller.... It's soooo awesome.
Like I said, I did enjoy playing XI with a gamepad when it was in its prime. But the juggernaut showed just how more immersive the game could be with proper keyboard and mouse control. Good mouse support combined with keymapping trumps a gamepad anyday.
Sweet! I am actually very happy about number six. lol
That alone should weed out some of the retards that shouldn't even touch this game in the first place.
Hip hip hurray!
You're happy that SE is so short sited, that they are completely ignoring even the most basic pc control elements that were standard a decade ago, and are making a sub standard mmo as far as pc mmos go, to cater to their target audience, the console gamers? No, they are doing it their way & you don't like it that's all. oh, & their target is FFXI & FF fan in general... not just console btw. You don't like it, don't play it. Simple...
If SE had any business sense, they would have made the pc and ps3 version seperately, with different controls and ui, and have pc and ps3 exclusive servers, instead of trying to force a combat and control system thats deliberately clunky, layered and slow on a pc, so it can be played on the controller. Again, you( & other like you ) not liking it =/= clunky. Fact. SE said that the slownest should be fixed with a few more tweak & removal of testing software.
It's not often you see a company invest so much money into a game and then deliberately annoy a large segment of mmo players, if I was a SE investor I'd be pretty damn pissed right now, since the company seems to be run by stubborn, short sited and arrogant fools that think they can strong arm people into playing the game their way, ignoring all feedback and industry standard controls/ui, and pretty much giving people the finger when they point out the games obvious and glaring flaws. Maybe investors thrust SE to make a game that will have as much success as FFXI for years to come... there's your money. jeez... They don't want millions of players, just a loyal fan following that will keep bringing in money for more than a few months. If you wonder what they are doing, look at FFXI & you'll have your answer.
This kind of crap might have worked when FF11 was released, but it's not gonna work today, especially with games like rift/swtor/GW2 on the horizon, it would have saved the SE devs alot of time if they just started flushing stacks of cash down the toilet than to try to release this game on a pc in its current state. They aren't aiming for the same crowd. SE is going to watch the upcoming titles you mention battleling it out for the mainstream market & fail. All the while laughing to the bank due to FFXIV doing pretty well in its niche. Thats what you fail to understand.
That's your opinion & nothing else bud...
Sir you seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder about this game. I will fight to the death your right to say it but I ask you to not wish misfortune on other folks. If people are interested and looking forward to the game there is no need to kick them while they are down. That is just being mean spirited and rude.
END OF LINE_
~V
I can only assume this is directed at me, and feel like I should point out that I have never responded to Nekrataal, and that the "That's your opinion & nothing else bud..." Was written by him, and is either a really disjointed comment towards me or his split personality responding to his own post.
I'm not trying to kick FF fans while they're down, in fact none of this is relevant to them since they're already used to it from FF11 and most probably play on a controller, on top of their rose tinted fanboi glasses, it was directed towards the traditional pc mmo players, and the inconsequential afterthought SE is treating them as.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
/clap
You nailed it!
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
While sticking to their guns in commendable, some of their choices are making even the loyal XI players go "Wha?". I've played XI for years. I've been infatuated with XIV ever since it was called Rapture.
We are not asking SE to overhaul the game, or cater to specific target markets. We're not saying to ditch the gamepad completey and go with keyboard+mouse. We're saying they can make it comfortable for both types of players, so why don't they? SE has no good reason to not implement hardware mouse, that's not even an argument. It's just them going "just 'cause /shrug shoulders". Yeah, that's real professional.
The point is...some decisions SE has made seem archaic, half assed and just down right confusing. This is SEs second developed MMO now, and it's going to heavily decide how their future MMO projects will play out. Will they become another Cryptic studios? Or will they be the first studio to deliver critically acclaimed back to back MMOs? Right now, it's seems like the former.
I find it hard to believe you people don't have one negative thing to say about the game. I don't care how much of a God damn fanboy you are, in it's current state, everyone has some doubts about it. The smarter ones will give SE until Christmas to clean up the game, as wil I. And we can judge a game by its beta, especially when it's only a month away.
And it's laughable people think XI is still holding that number of subscriptions. Hellooooooo, did you miss the memo about server merges? It's probably hovering about half of what it was a couple years ago. And this isn't about XI anymore. Stop talking about it. That was years ago.
Things. Have. Changed. Get that through your heads.
I can give you an answer on why I think they're doing this, but you may not like it.
It's not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse just like any other mmo, because it would render the controller obsolete. SE has to make the controller and keyboard/mouse have to be as equal as possible. Making a keyboard and mouse 10/10 will by default, make controller 7/10. So, as a necessary evil, to balance all platforms, keyboard/mouse has to fall to the lowest common denominator (e.g. The controller).
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's a fact. SE's largest player base is japanese players and the prefer a controller. Unlike most other mmos, FFXIV is a console and a pc game, so it has to balance considerations that other mmo's will never have to address. We are seeing all the problems are created based on this delicate balance.
I have to agree on the subject of controller v gamepad. The reason we'd all like a proper PC mouse and keyboard set up is it's simply better right? it's quicker to activate spells and abilities, quicker to target, easier to do more things in quick succession. It's simply better
This is the catch though, what happens when you get to tough fights and a portion of the players can react faster to situations, maybe get heals of when a player is at 5% where a player with a controller might struggle? I can easily see how that would lead to 'PC player only' linkshells and parties. This is something that SE can't allow to happen.
Do many FPS games let PS3 players play with PC players? PC players would kill the console players with the superior controls, there would be exceptions no doubt but on the main it would PC player>>>>>>>console and I think it would be the same with FFXIV
It sucks if you are a PC player but it's probably the only fair way if you are going to let players from both platforms play together. Whether or not you feel you can accept that is up to the person themselves, I have a feeling quite a few western players will simply leave it.
Didn't really see anything about this, but has there been any talk of fixing the horrible map system in-game? I hate not being able to scroll and click around it, much less scroll between the various "levels" of the city.
And honestly, the game felt rather clunky to me from the bit of time I played it. Didn't help that I got caught in a glitched "chatbox" and was forced to go to task manager and end the entire game that way... whose bright idea was it to disable everything the second a chatbox with an npc is open?
Well, get to wait for the Ps3 versions beta at least, see if they pick up their act then.
It seems that while there will be general tweaks to somewhat improve things people are complaining about, there are some issues that won't be addressed for launch.
Tutorials. Expect some improvement to starting player guidance, but they are leaving it up to Fansites to post guides on how to play the game.
Auction Houses. Not for launch. Better ability to search the retainer vendors for goods you need? Not for launch.
End Game. Most content at launch for casual players. Hardcore and end game content to be added later.
Mana Regeneration. Maybe some tweaking for launch, but they want players to be limited by mana and mana management. (Similar to DDO, your mana pool does not regenerate on it's own, in or out of combat).
UI lag. Working on it, expect solid improvements with tweaks, fixes and removal of debugging code.
Mouse Support. They understand the Software mouse has bad performance, but while looking into possible hardware mouse in the future, no plans yet to add it to the game. Definitely not for launch.
48 Hour Guildleve cooldown. It will stay. They have no plans to change it, at all. If you want more Guildleves, share them with others and have them share theirs with you. (The arguement that 48 hours is fine for casuals is horrible, IMO. 24 hour cooldown would make more sense for the person who plays an hour or so a day).
Graphics performance issues. Expect some improvements with tweaks and removal of debugging code. Still have issues? It must be you and your hardware...
Seems to me that while some of the biggest issues and complaints may get addressed in some ways before launch, a lot of big issues will not be addressed. I'm still leaning towards playing, but I'm expecting a rocky launch for the game, based on what I see in game and what the devs have to say in this interview.
kinda get this back on track, I read the link and found that what the dev's were saying and how you paraphrased it can lead to some confusion. So here is my understanding of these concerns.
Tutorials. Player Intro will be improved but we wont go down the handholding route. We will try and talk to some of the fansites to give them detailed info they can post. Players can digest this info at work etc rather than logging into the game and reading it on the screen..
Auction Houses. This is not being included at launch, the Economy is going to be allowed to develop before we stick in an auction house, want the cheapest stuff? then do some legwork for it. Once the game is launched we will look at this and see what kind of search tools players want.
End Game. We are working to install the Faction system, you grind faction points for Leves that allow you to complete 'endgame' encounters. may be seen in Beta to test it out. Currently we are working to get the game fleshed out for casual players. Each update will include more stuff for both types of players.
Mana Regeneration. Nothing really to add here, being a caster is a challenge, but did you know I have my own 'Mana regen' only requires me to be a caster for 30 mins for it to be active..
UI lag. Again nothing to add here, they know and are working on it
Mouse Support. did you know that you can use your arrow keys to navigate the menus and it has same reaction time as the Pad? I know whowuddathunk it
48 Hour Guildleve cooldown. It will stay. They have no plans to change it, at all. If you want more Guildleves, share them with others and have them share theirs with you. (The arguement that 48 hours is fine for casuals is horrible, IMO. 24 hour cooldown would make more sense for the person who plays an hour or so a day).
Graphics performance issues. Debugging codes etc that run during BETA are running and this may be the cause, also due to the variations of PC setups it maybe be users PC, we are working to resovle issues with GFX cards as we can
Man, the GFX issues are ALWAYS going to occur, I remember playing a game and the game suddenly going a weird LSD effect on the screen tehn going normal. Think that was them or me? there are ALWAYS going to be issues with GFX on PC due to people not updating drivers etc. So far the game runs like a dream on my PC, and yes I ramped it to max settings, but i accept its a hardware limitation on my end that is causing my issues playing the game.
FYI i am a 'Fanboi' I wholly respect the Squenix team and the work they are doing on this and I sure as hell am signed up for my Pre-order CE
I dont know what the hell is this trolls problem, i dont go into a forum of a game to cry about everythin it has or dont has if i know first hand im not gonna like it.This game is not for everyone. Theres no hidden features, or hidden advertising to hook people on to later be disapointed.SE give you "this" take it or go find another game.I been saying this in all my posts , maybe with the devs interview you finally understand this is their game , their way.
The game is how it is , None of this surprise me , in fact im happy for the most part since all of this was expected.I fail to see the "omg they have to make it this way or that way or they gonna loose this 1 customer ". I take the game with all its pros and cons, becouse i like what SE is doing.
All you people bashing the game becouse is not made for you should find a better entertainment, becouse , whatever you like it or not , the game already has its market , and your not in it.Trying to please everyone with meaningless thins will only lead to disaster.I am a fan but not blind . I am aware the game wont be perfect at launch , and as long as they focus on what matters( to make UI/server responce faster , since everythin is done server side ) i will be pleased, as well as many others who do enjoy this type of game ( RPG made into a MMO).SE already did it with ffxi, and talk all the bs you whant about 11 , but a lot of people enjoyed it , and it was damn succesfull from a monetary point of view, hell it has so many expansions , and was constantly updated.
You people really need to get of your cloud and move on, this game is not for you if you keep bitching it doesnt have this or that or you dont like this or that.Is a new game , and you need to adapt or move on.Is not the old copy paste crap.You have to take it as it is, Or go find another game, im fairly sure the game will have enough subs to keep it making money without any false advertising or GW2 video " we make this game thinking on you, no1 else make this but us , you go buy now "crap.Theres not such a thin as a universal game . This is a niche game for a niche market. Get it buried on your skull once and for all, and move on.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
/clap
You nailed it!
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
While sticking to their guns in commendable, some of their choices are making even the loyal XI players go "Wha?". I've played XI for years. I've been infatuated with XIV ever since it was called Rapture.
We are not asking SE to overhaul the game, or cater to specific target markets. We're not saying to ditch the gamepad completey and go with keyboard+mouse. We're saying they can make it comfortable for both types of players, so why don't they? SE has no good reason to not implement hardware mouse, that's not even an argument. It's just them going "just 'cause /shrug shoulders". Yeah, that's real professional.
The point is...some decisions SE has made seem archaic, half assed and just down right confusing. This is SEs second developed MMO now, and it's going to heavily decide how their future MMO projects will play out. Will they become another Cryptic studios? Or will they be the first studio to deliver critically acclaimed back to back MMOs? Right now, it's seems like the former.
I find it hard to believe you people don't have one negative thing to say about the game. I don't care how much of a God damn fanboy you are, in it's current state, everyone has some doubts about it. The smarter ones will give SE until Christmas to clean up the game, as wil I. And we can judge a game by its beta, especially when it's only a month away.
And it's laughable people think XI is still holding that number of subscriptions. Hellooooooo, did you miss the memo about server merges? It's probably hovering about half of what it was a couple years ago. And this isn't about XI anymore. Stop talking about it. That was years ago.
Things. Have. Changed. Get that through your heads.
I can give you an answer on why I think they're doing this, but you may not like it.
It's not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse just like any other mmo, because it would render the controller obsolete. SE has to make the controller and keyboard/mouse have to be as equal as possible. Making a keyboard and mouse 10/10 will by default, make controller 7/10. So, as a necessary evil, to balance all platforms, keyboard/mouse has to fall to the lowest common denominator (e.g. The controller).
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's a fact. SE's largest player base is japanese players and the prefer a controller. Unlike most other mmos, FFXIV is a console and a pc game, so it has to balance considerations that other mmo's will never have to address. We are seeing all the problems are created based on this delicate balance.
I have to agree on the subject of controller v gamepad. The reason we'd all like a proper PC mouse and keyboard set up is it's simply better right? it's quicker to activate spells and abilities, quicker to target, easier to do more things in quick succession. It's simply better
This is the catch though, what happens when you get to tough fights and a portion of the players can react faster to situations, maybe get heals of when a player is at 5% where a player with a controller might struggle? I can easily see how that would lead to 'PC player only' linkshells and parties. This is something that SE can't allow to happen.
Do many FPS games let PS3 players play with PC players? PC players would kill the console players with the superior controls, there would be exceptions no doubt but on the main it would PC player>>>>>>>console and I think it would be the same with FFXIV
It sucks if you are a PC player but it's probably the only fair way if you are going to let players from both platforms play together. Whether or not you feel you can accept that is up to the person themselves, I have a feeling quite a few western players will simply leave it.
I don't mean to start any conspiracy theories, but it's for the very reason you guys have listed that I think they might be "taking their time" with including better mouse support at launch. Personally, it's been a difficult choice deciding on whether to go with a gamepad again (as I did in FFXI) or switch to the keyboard for the faster, and more accessible hotkey management. Regardless, when it comes down to it, I'd much rather stick with the gamepad for the ease of movement and less strain on my wrist, so having terrible mouse support just made that decision much easier for me.
All of that said, I'm inclined to agree that holding off on the improved mouse support might actually be a deliberate move on SE's part to kind of "balance" the two, or possibly even coerce people into using the gamepad exclusively instead.
Don't get me wrong, I want the PC users who prefer the mouse/keyboard combo to at least be content with that choice, but I can't say I'm against the act of attempting to balance the two so that the gamepad isn't considered obsolete. I guess all we can do is wait and see how it all plays out.
I just have time for a quick post before I dash off to work, didn't read the article itself and started skimming as I got to the last few pages of the thread. Even though I have up until now been 100% sure that I would be getting FFXIV and playing it exclusively for a long time, this news (if it is true) is the first to give me second thoughts. Mainly just the tutorials, AH, and mouse support.
Tutorials - No amount of fanboyism or love for "old-school" MMOs can justify this. This game does a lot of things very differently than other MMOs; off the top of my head, the multi-class system, lack of MP regen, and limited access to quests. You can't thrust new mechanics like these into a game that break established conventions and not find a clear and concise way of explaining things to the players as they begin. Explaining how to play the game is NOT a form of hand-holding or dumbing-down. It is very frustrating to want to do something and not know how to — the bad kind of frustrating, not the good kind! It is frustrating to try to find out how to do something only to eventually find out that it's not even possible and you've been wasting your time. And it really really sucks to go on having a difficult time because there's something that you can do but didn't know you could do. That's the worst, because you don't even know that it was an option. You wouldn't have even thought to ask around or go google a fansite because you didn't know that you didn't know. This is one issue where people can't get away with saying that that's just how FF is, because the console FF games had tutorials up the wazoo! The boss fight that you cannot get past until you show that you know how to use Sabin's Blitz technique, or the cutscene with an Imp who teaches you how to use Gau's Leap and Rage commands. The material tutorials, the Junction tutorials, the sphere grid tutorials. Every FF game has been a bit of a chore to learn and they make sure that you at least understand your options the instant those options become available, rather than letting you flop about doing things wrong and playing suboptimally.
AH - I've seen people argue elsewhere that Auction Houses were one of the many causes for the death of the good-ol'-MMO feeling, and that they're a community killer. But to say that an AH is in the works and will be introduced later, that would mean that they do think the AH is important to the game (and that its absence is not an attempt to bring merchants and customers closer together) but that it's just not going to be there upon release. I don't buy the economic argument for a second. Whether it's the 1st day after release or the 1000th day, if you are willing to buy an item for X gil and someone is willing to sell that item for X gil but has no reliable way of making you aware of that fact, the system suffers. You either go without the item or you buy it from someone who is selling it for a higher price, just because they were the only person you could find. Not to mention the advertising necessary to hawk one's wares by hand... I predict a lot of early crafters getting on my block list the first week if they don't shut up about the leather gloves and apple pies they're selling.
Mouse support - Simply put, knowing what you want to do but being unable to do it quickly is frustrating. It makes for an immediately negative first impression, and I worry that it will cause a lot of people who would otherwise love the game to simply quit before their 30 days is up. This is not a case where you say Good Riddance; these are people who would have genuinely liked the game if they had purchased it 2 months later after the patch, or if they knew for sure that it would be fixed very soon. The menu-driven UI isn't quite the same issue, because that is a necessary evil. In order to have the game look and play the same on PS3, they need to do it that way. So be it. If people join up and instantly jump ship because of the menus, they couldn't have enjoyed the game in the first place. But a sluggish delayed mouse isn't something that you fix when you get around to it... it needs to be fixed before the first player logs into the released version unless you want every reviewer's first sentence to be "the first thing I noticed was the laggy mouse."
Comments
You, feeling restricted by SE is ''rofl'' worthy.
The game is not catering to your need? That is hard to swallow it seem...
Now, what do you do when a game isn't design to your liking? I'll tell you the logical thing to do.
Wait for a game that actually fit your idea on how an MMO should work.
It's either you like the way SE does things or you don't. Simple as that. This isn't a chump, push over company that caves into majority rule.
SE knows what it does best. It knows its target audiance. It listens to its playerbase but is slow to react. Look at FFXI from day one to now. A lot of things changed, but they didnt change in the timeline people wanted. I LOVE THAT SE has a vision for its game and is sticking to it. They're not selling their soul for what they believe will be large box sales followed by no retention of subscriptions. Slow and steady wins the race seems to be an appropriate motto for SE.
I don't know of too many games the last ten years that can claim 500-750k subscribers for 7+ years like FFXI. I have faith in SE for doing only one thing, creating a vision for their game and sticking to it. The only thing that remains is, are you in or out? You either like FFXIV or you don't. You're not going to change SE;s mind, the sooner you realize it, the happier you'll be.... one way or another.
Edit: For some of you who say this is a bad business model then FFXI clearly proves you wrong. I remember during the middle of FFXI, people HATED it, but that didn't stop half a million people from enjoying it. By any objective measure, FFXI was a huge sucess, so sorry if i'm goin to side with SE when it comes to who knows more about making a sucessful mmo.
/clap
You nailed it!
Sorry for the delayed responce but the wife had to talk about her day. This sir was your first post here and the one I was referring to. Good day.
RIP Jimmy "The Rev" Sullivan and Paul Gray.
/SIGNED
Im still happy, Cup is still half full. theyll get to the other things when they get to them, its playble. and Im glad you cant grind one Guildleve all day, how boring would that be..... share with others and have some fun!
I just summarized it, rather than ripping the entire interview from the other site. The link is the first thing in the post! I know a lot of people rip off stuff from other sites wholesale, with out a thought, but I don't do that. I also tried to objectively represent the points made. I even highlighted not for launch so it would be clear.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
Its nice to see that they are attempting to fix most of these problems, but like others have said, the mouse support troubles me. I played FFXI with keyboard only, and grew to love it, but I prefer keyboard + mouse as it feels more natural. Its still silly that a PC game insists that you use a gamepad over the norm of a keyboard and mouse because the controls/lag are so horrid.
Overall I am disappointed with SE. There have been a lot of simple problems that can potentially ruin a gamers enjoyment of the game and are easy fixes. Why they're so heisitant to fix them it boggles the mind.
Played it for six months.
BTW, I have concerns. Why? The interview addresses most of the major issues surfacing in player feedback and in many cases shows that they aren't going to address them in time for launch.
To be clear as well, I'm still planning on playing. I'm not concerned specifically about my play experience, but rather about the way the game will be received at launch.
It's a promising game. It's also a game where people will have enough of a learning curve adjusting to a different kind of MMO experience, with out having to fight a clunky UI or other issues which have raised serious red flags for many, many testers.
Personally, I think the most frustrating thing on the list is the lack of hardware mouse support, not because it's the most serious concern, but because a. the software mouse support is horrendous and b. because direct input hardware mouse support is one of the easiest things you could add to a program. I just don't get why this wouldn't have been addressed long ago?
I'll bring things right back to the interview. I do find it concerning that in an interview that asks about some of the most widely expressed concerns among the beta testers, in many cases the response is not for launch. Most of us have been assuming that these things would be fixed for launch and have said so often as a caveat against those who have been turned off by beta, or news coming out of beta.
So, we really are up against the fact that the game probably is being released too early. That almost always is a very bad sign for how a game will fare and will leave some people who are looking forward to the game a bit frustrated.
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
game should just be scrapped now, save alot of people's time and money
Go away Nek, at least Hrary can hold a conversation without going into angry German kid mode.
@Hrary
While sticking to their guns in commendable, some of their choices are making even the loyal XI players go "Wha?". I've played XI for years. I've been infatuated with XIV ever since it was called Rapture.
We are not asking SE to overhaul the game, or cater to specific target markets. We're not saying to ditch the gamepad completey and go with keyboard+mouse. We're saying they can make it comfortable for both types of players, so why don't they? SE has no good reason to not implement hardware mouse, that's not even an argument. It's just them going "just 'cause /shrug shoulders". Yeah, that's real professional.
The point is...some decisions SE has made seem archaic, half assed and just down right confusing. This is SEs second developed MMO now, and it's going to heavily decide how their future MMO projects will play out. Will they become another Cryptic studios? Or will they be the first studio to deliver critically acclaimed back to back MMOs? Right now, it's seems like the former.
I find it hard to believe you people don't have one negative thing to say about the game. I don't care how much of a God damn fanboy you are, in it's current state, everyone has some doubts about it. The smarter ones will give SE until Christmas to clean up the game, as wil I. And we can judge a game by its beta, especially when it's only a month away.
And it's laughable people think XI is still holding that number of subscriptions. Hellooooooo, did you miss the memo about server merges? It's probably hovering about half of what it was a couple years ago. And this isn't about XI anymore. Stop talking about it. That was years ago.
Things. Have. Changed. Get that through your heads.
I remember it took me a while to adjust to FFXI, so even though this UI is a bit worse, I'm sure you'll make the transition. Just keep at it and don't get frustrated.
I'd definitely recommend considering a good gamepad. The UI is designed around it. It's still a little clunky as a controller UI as well, but a lot better than keyboard, for me anyway. The only downside is that targeting during a fight using just the controller can be extremely frustrating. You just have to be ready to jump to keyboard or mouse in some situations. (Controller in one hand, or on your lap).
I switched from a PS2 style pad to an XBox 360 gamepad and like it a lot. Personal preference though, either style controller can work.
I do really wish they allowed free key rebinding though. I think keyboard mouse would work just fine if you could bind to personal preference (and if the mouse lag was fixed).
Want to know more about GW2 and why there is so much buzz? Start here: Guild Wars 2 Mass Info for the Uninitiated
This x a gajillion.
While I love the game to death and would gladly buy the game if it launched tomorrow, the fact that they're glossing over such simple things does worry me a lot. The game is 35-ish days from launch, and there's not even an inventory sorting option in the game. All your items are strewn about in the menu and it's a little frustrating. (Players shouldn't have to run back to their retainer and sort their inventory that way, either.)
You also can't have more than six people in a group without the game constantly crashing from AoE cure/buff effects.
Don't even bother trying to use the con system to tell how strong monsters are, too. I had a decent challenge (green) do 300 damage to me. (I'm a 17 CON with about 420 HP or so.) And that was after Stoneskin took the blunt of the damage.
I could go on, but you get the point. Love the game, would pay to play retail now, but the bugs won't go over well with many people. Especially those who recently joined the MMO community and have never gone through a true launch yet.
Remind me to hire you for business consulting. {sarcasm}
I can give you an answer on why I think they're doing this, but you may not like it.
FFXIV will not be as successful in the west and in Europe compared to Japan/Asia. I'm willing to bet money that 70% of FFXIV subscribers will be primarily from Japan/Asia. The decision to make changes in the game is dictated by which portion of their subscriber base they want to placate.
Not only was FFXI far bigger in Japan than in the west, but the PS3 was the format of choice for FFXI. I've posted in the past about the delicate balance between controller vs. keyboard and mouse.
It's not as easy as making the keyboard/mouse just like any other mmo, because it would render the controller obsolete. SE has to make the controller and keyboard/mouse have to be as equal as possible. Making a keyboard and mouse 10/10 will by default, make controller 7/10. So, as a necessary evil, to balance all platforms, keyboard/mouse has to fall to the lowest common denominator (e.g. The controller).
I know this isn't what you want to hear, but it's a fact. SE's largest player base is japanese players and the prefer a controller. Unlike most other mmos, FFXIV is a console and a pc game, so it has to balance considerations that other mmo's will never have to address. We are seeing all the problems are created based on this delicate balance.
To be honest, FFXI was the same. 85% of the MMO population HATED FFXI, but 500-750K LOVE IT. SE is designing FFXIV for it's loyal fans.
Again, the only thing I can say is that FFXI was great, but it became great. It had issues in the beginning. SE's track record speaks for itself. I have more faith in SE than I do about the mmo population in general. You will NEVER create a unique game if you cater to majority rule. If you cave in to majority rule, you will have ALL mmo's becomming carbon copies of each other. Peopel will want to impart all their features of their favorite mmos. I prefer SE sticking to its guns, it ensures FFXIV at the very least, will be different.
Edit: And to address the issue of being a loyal fanboi to teh very end without finding any fault in SE is a little true. I am a fanboi. I knew FFXI wasn't perfect, it had issues, but what it did well was awesome. I loved the music, the weapon skills, the difficulty, the community, the emphasis on party, the emphasis on pve, crafting, etc. There were so many things that made me love the game that I completely didn't care about the other stuff. I just adapted to the other stuff and moved on.
I think FFXIV will be the same way. If the story is awesome, if the combat is fun, then the UI issues will be less of an issue once you just move on from it and focus on what you enjoy. But, for some people FFXI's UI was game breaking and didn't play. I went from keyboard/mouse to controller and never looked back. I think if people are honest with themselves, they will realize that FFXIV isn't for them and they should move on. A lot of people were hoping FFXIV was the savior to fill a void in their mmo hearts. People are comming to the realization that it isn't what they envisioned. But, that's the person's problem, not SE's.
What are you talking about? What conversation... its his first post in this thread. Are you mental or something?
Anyways, this is pointless whinning as SE already said whats going to be at release... Don't you see that?
That said, its late so I'll grant your wish.
Gn!
edit: Hray is saying the exact same thing in more words. Sorry, but to get that kind of reply from me, you'd need to not be the little whinners, that can't accept the game doesn't cater to the NA mainsteream, that you all are.
What need to be fixed will be ( name one bug infested SE game... there isn't one.) & intended game mechanics will stay. ty
Sir you seem to have quite a chip on your shoulder about this game. I will fight to the death your right to say it but I ask you to not wish misfortune on other folks. If people are interested and looking forward to the game there is no need to kick them while they are down. That is just being mean spirited and rude.
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~V
I think it's more of a final fantasy than it is an mmo.
I think a lot of people are having trouble grasping FFXIV because they start with your premise, that it's supposed to be like other mmos. If you played FFXI on a controller, it felt more like a FF game than an MMo. But that's just me.
90% of people have never played an MMO on a controller.... It's soooo awesome.
Like I said, I did enjoy playing XI with a gamepad when it was in its prime. But the juggernaut showed just how more immersive the game could be with proper keyboard and mouse control. Good mouse support combined with keymapping trumps a gamepad anyday.
I can only assume this is directed at me, and feel like I should point out that I have never responded to Nekrataal, and that the "That's your opinion & nothing else bud..." Was written by him, and is either a really disjointed comment towards me or his split personality responding to his own post.
I'm not trying to kick FF fans while they're down, in fact none of this is relevant to them since they're already used to it from FF11 and most probably play on a controller, on top of their rose tinted fanboi glasses, it was directed towards the traditional pc mmo players, and the inconsequential afterthought SE is treating them as.
Didn't really see anything about this, but has there been any talk of fixing the horrible map system in-game? I hate not being able to scroll and click around it, much less scroll between the various "levels" of the city.
And honestly, the game felt rather clunky to me from the bit of time I played it. Didn't help that I got caught in a glitched "chatbox" and was forced to go to task manager and end the entire game that way... whose bright idea was it to disable everything the second a chatbox with an npc is open?
Well, get to wait for the Ps3 versions beta at least, see if they pick up their act then.
kinda get this back on track, I read the link and found that what the dev's were saying and how you paraphrased it can lead to some confusion. So here is my understanding of these concerns.
Tutorials. Player Intro will be improved but we wont go down the handholding route. We will try and talk to some of the fansites to give them detailed info they can post. Players can digest this info at work etc rather than logging into the game and reading it on the screen..
Auction Houses. This is not being included at launch, the Economy is going to be allowed to develop before we stick in an auction house, want the cheapest stuff? then do some legwork for it. Once the game is launched we will look at this and see what kind of search tools players want.
End Game. We are working to install the Faction system, you grind faction points for Leves that allow you to complete 'endgame' encounters. may be seen in Beta to test it out. Currently we are working to get the game fleshed out for casual players. Each update will include more stuff for both types of players.
Mana Regeneration. Nothing really to add here, being a caster is a challenge, but did you know I have my own 'Mana regen' only requires me to be a caster for 30 mins for it to be active..
UI lag. Again nothing to add here, they know and are working on it
Mouse Support. did you know that you can use your arrow keys to navigate the menus and it has same reaction time as the Pad? I know whowuddathunk it
48 Hour Guildleve cooldown. It will stay. They have no plans to change it, at all. If you want more Guildleves, share them with others and have them share theirs with you. (The arguement that 48 hours is fine for casuals is horrible, IMO. 24 hour cooldown would make more sense for the person who plays an hour or so a day).
Graphics performance issues. Debugging codes etc that run during BETA are running and this may be the cause, also due to the variations of PC setups it maybe be users PC, we are working to resovle issues with GFX cards as we can
Man, the GFX issues are ALWAYS going to occur, I remember playing a game and the game suddenly going a weird LSD effect on the screen tehn going normal. Think that was them or me? there are ALWAYS going to be issues with GFX on PC due to people not updating drivers etc. So far the game runs like a dream on my PC, and yes I ramped it to max settings, but i accept its a hardware limitation on my end that is causing my issues playing the game.
FYI i am a 'Fanboi' I wholly respect the Squenix team and the work they are doing on this and I sure as hell am signed up for my Pre-order CE
http://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/en/a/ab/Norsefire-logo.png
I dont know what the hell is this trolls problem, i dont go into a forum of a game to cry about everythin it has or dont has if i know first hand im not gonna like it.This game is not for everyone. Theres no hidden features, or hidden advertising to hook people on to later be disapointed.SE give you "this" take it or go find another game.I been saying this in all my posts , maybe with the devs interview you finally understand this is their game , their way.
The game is how it is , None of this surprise me , in fact im happy for the most part since all of this was expected.I fail to see the "omg they have to make it this way or that way or they gonna loose this 1 customer ". I take the game with all its pros and cons, becouse i like what SE is doing.
All you people bashing the game becouse is not made for you should find a better entertainment, becouse , whatever you like it or not , the game already has its market , and your not in it.Trying to please everyone with meaningless thins will only lead to disaster.I am a fan but not blind . I am aware the game wont be perfect at launch , and as long as they focus on what matters( to make UI/server responce faster , since everythin is done server side ) i will be pleased, as well as many others who do enjoy this type of game ( RPG made into a MMO).SE already did it with ffxi, and talk all the bs you whant about 11 , but a lot of people enjoyed it , and it was damn succesfull from a monetary point of view, hell it has so many expansions , and was constantly updated.
You people really need to get of your cloud and move on, this game is not for you if you keep bitching it doesnt have this or that or you dont like this or that.Is a new game , and you need to adapt or move on.Is not the old copy paste crap.You have to take it as it is, Or go find another game, im fairly sure the game will have enough subs to keep it making money without any false advertising or GW2 video " we make this game thinking on you, no1 else make this but us , you go buy now "crap.Theres not such a thin as a universal game . This is a niche game for a niche market. Get it buried on your skull once and for all, and move on.
I don't mean to start any conspiracy theories, but it's for the very reason you guys have listed that I think they might be "taking their time" with including better mouse support at launch. Personally, it's been a difficult choice deciding on whether to go with a gamepad again (as I did in FFXI) or switch to the keyboard for the faster, and more accessible hotkey management. Regardless, when it comes down to it, I'd much rather stick with the gamepad for the ease of movement and less strain on my wrist, so having terrible mouse support just made that decision much easier for me.
All of that said, I'm inclined to agree that holding off on the improved mouse support might actually be a deliberate move on SE's part to kind of "balance" the two, or possibly even coerce people into using the gamepad exclusively instead.
Don't get me wrong, I want the PC users who prefer the mouse/keyboard combo to at least be content with that choice, but I can't say I'm against the act of attempting to balance the two so that the gamepad isn't considered obsolete. I guess all we can do is wait and see how it all plays out.
I just have time for a quick post before I dash off to work, didn't read the article itself and started skimming as I got to the last few pages of the thread. Even though I have up until now been 100% sure that I would be getting FFXIV and playing it exclusively for a long time, this news (if it is true) is the first to give me second thoughts. Mainly just the tutorials, AH, and mouse support.
Tutorials - No amount of fanboyism or love for "old-school" MMOs can justify this. This game does a lot of things very differently than other MMOs; off the top of my head, the multi-class system, lack of MP regen, and limited access to quests. You can't thrust new mechanics like these into a game that break established conventions and not find a clear and concise way of explaining things to the players as they begin. Explaining how to play the game is NOT a form of hand-holding or dumbing-down. It is very frustrating to want to do something and not know how to — the bad kind of frustrating, not the good kind! It is frustrating to try to find out how to do something only to eventually find out that it's not even possible and you've been wasting your time. And it really really sucks to go on having a difficult time because there's something that you can do but didn't know you could do. That's the worst, because you don't even know that it was an option. You wouldn't have even thought to ask around or go google a fansite because you didn't know that you didn't know. This is one issue where people can't get away with saying that that's just how FF is, because the console FF games had tutorials up the wazoo! The boss fight that you cannot get past until you show that you know how to use Sabin's Blitz technique, or the cutscene with an Imp who teaches you how to use Gau's Leap and Rage commands. The material tutorials, the Junction tutorials, the sphere grid tutorials. Every FF game has been a bit of a chore to learn and they make sure that you at least understand your options the instant those options become available, rather than letting you flop about doing things wrong and playing suboptimally.
AH - I've seen people argue elsewhere that Auction Houses were one of the many causes for the death of the good-ol'-MMO feeling, and that they're a community killer. But to say that an AH is in the works and will be introduced later, that would mean that they do think the AH is important to the game (and that its absence is not an attempt to bring merchants and customers closer together) but that it's just not going to be there upon release. I don't buy the economic argument for a second. Whether it's the 1st day after release or the 1000th day, if you are willing to buy an item for X gil and someone is willing to sell that item for X gil but has no reliable way of making you aware of that fact, the system suffers. You either go without the item or you buy it from someone who is selling it for a higher price, just because they were the only person you could find. Not to mention the advertising necessary to hawk one's wares by hand... I predict a lot of early crafters getting on my block list the first week if they don't shut up about the leather gloves and apple pies they're selling.
Mouse support - Simply put, knowing what you want to do but being unable to do it quickly is frustrating. It makes for an immediately negative first impression, and I worry that it will cause a lot of people who would otherwise love the game to simply quit before their 30 days is up. This is not a case where you say Good Riddance; these are people who would have genuinely liked the game if they had purchased it 2 months later after the patch, or if they knew for sure that it would be fixed very soon. The menu-driven UI isn't quite the same issue, because that is a necessary evil. In order to have the game look and play the same on PS3, they need to do it that way. So be it. If people join up and instantly jump ship because of the menus, they couldn't have enjoyed the game in the first place. But a sluggish delayed mouse isn't something that you fix when you get around to it... it needs to be fixed before the first player logs into the released version unless you want every reviewer's first sentence to be "the first thing I noticed was the laggy mouse."