We'll see if these names stick all the way to release. I feel they are a bit strange as well. But I don't think it would be the end of my interest if it did happen to stick.
If i cared about the game this would probably bug me. I would want my Star Wars games to stay away from certain words.. wizards, dwarves, ect. I dunno it'll still be ok i'm sure.. though I don't think anyone would care about this game at all if it didn't have the Star Wars title... but it does... so people do.. fair enough I guess. I'm sure i'd fall for it too.
If i cared about the game this would probably bug me. I would want my Star Wars games to stay away from certain words.. wizards, dwarves, ect. I dunno it'll still be ok i'm sure.. though I don't think anyone would care about this game at all if it didn't have the Star Wars title... but it does... so people do.. fair enough I guess. I'm sure i'd fall for it too.
To bad it seems those people don't know to much about star wars.
That wizard is just a crazy old man. Now, tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit to Anchorhead and have it's memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now. - Uncle Owen, A New Hope
To be correct, Star Wars can be tagged as 'science fantasy'.
While 'wizard' has few examples in the SW canon (Expanded Universe), the term 'sorcerors' and 'witches' has often been used to describe Sith/Dark Side practitioners of the Force.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
If i cared about the game this would probably bug me. I would want my Star Wars games to stay away from certain words.. wizards, dwarves, ect. I dunno it'll still be ok i'm sure.. though I don't think anyone would care about this game at all if it didn't have the Star Wars title... but it does... so people do.. fair enough I guess. I'm sure i'd fall for it too.
To bad it seems those people don't know to much about star wars.
That wizard is just a crazy old man. Now, tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit to Anchorhead and have it's memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now. - Uncle Owen, A New Hope
This happens, when people don't read books anymore and only watch the films.
Sorcerers and wizards are found in the books, so there's no reason, why the terms shouldn't be used in the game.
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."
You shall not forget that Star Wars isn't SciFi but fantasy to begin with.
Yeah, but it's not Dungeons n' Dragons either.
Actually StarWars is and has always been a traditional fantasy ( like d and d ) set in space . If suddently elves or dwarves spouted up in this game then maybe there would be a problem . Correct me if i m wrong but I seam to remember Obi Wan Kenobi refered to as an old wizard by lukes uncle Owen ( this was within the first 30 mins of the very first StarWars movie ) . Also if you have a problem with the terms wizards and socerers you should have a problem with the term knights so its really a matter of ignoring one thing you find acceptable because you ve used to the term jedi knight since 1977 when its really just as acceptable or ridiculous as wizard in a sci fi setting depending on your view .
So at the end of the day either remove the term Knight from the Jedi or just accept its pretty stupid to have something against the term Wizard .
While I do feel the names are a little unimaginative. I'm not sure they're exactly out of place, at least within this time-line. as I really don't know a whole lot about this time-line, outside of the KOTOR games. This time period is more or less unexplored for the most part is it not, at least in terms of life in the galaxy?
Now while in the films it is mentioned a few times that force users are viewed as wizards and/or sorcerers. It is true that these were more or less average Joe views post imperial take-over.
On the other hand, Jedi numbered in the thousands during this time period. Which would mean any force user who was good would be viewed in large part as a Jedi, at least in galactic terms. Yet possibly he isn't exactly a Jedi in terms of training? More so he is of a nature of force user that is known in his culture as a wizard? This is also taking into account the Adept description posted above. The same could be applied in the sith counterparts case.
Now that may be outside of your personal view, the whole concept could be. You have to consider it's usage in star wars lore long before this case. Who's to say exactly how it fits into the lore until we see how it's written in?
In general these times have been covered by if I'm not mistaken Dark Horse comics as well and believe the many posters who have made mention of the fact that Jedi and Sith have often been portrayed as wizards and sorcerers so to speak and there are even books that follow the time line after the films that had some Sith who could pass for wzards and such.
The craziest thing about this point though is they use force abilities to mind control people and fling things all over the place and we are here picking apart terminology.
PS I also liked the point made by another poster who eluded to the fact that while Star Wars is set in a technilogical setting it can just as easily be classified as fantasy.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
When they had a sith "magi" with a star-pattern-printed cap reminiscent of the wizard's from Fantasia, that probably should have been a tip off for something like this lol.
Tbh, I think being a Jedi Consular "Shadow" seems more awkward in name, though I know it's in the lore.
Lol I love Star Wars but you ppl NEED to get a life .... This topic is pointless ... wizard or sorcerer they are still jedi and sith ... nothing more nothing less ....
What you should be complaining about is the fact that they are using the old crappy paradigm of "classes"
While I agree that this may be a less important complaint about the game, it still has some merit. In a genre where fantasy games are a dime a dozen, making a sci-fi MMO could easily attract gamers who are not into the fantasy genre. But adding in titles like "wizard" and "sorceror" causes those players who detest all things LoTR to reel in disgust, regardless of whether or not those titles are "canon".
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the class-based system issue though. If you're as pidgeon-holed in your abilities as these kinds of MMO's usually cause players to be, that will ruin it for me. If the system allows you have a reasonable offensive/defensive balance with a focus on certain kinds of abilities, I'd be fine with it. We'll have to wait and see I guess.
i hope they are going to change a few class names until the release, sounds like any other fantasy mmo out there to me.
Playing: Global Agenda / Vindictus ----------------- Excited for: Guild Wars 2 / TERA / SWTOR ----------------- Have Played: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, CoH/CoV, EverQuest 1+2, Tabula Rasa, DDO, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Champions Online, Aion, FLYFF, ArchLord, Metin 2, DAoC, APB, CC, Darkfall and many many more ----------------- Favorite MMO: Ultima Online
I think the lengths people have to go to in searching out references really illustrates how much these terms do no convey the feeling of star wars. It is an odd choice of names (even if it does fit the lore) for a game that is focusing on immersion and story telling.
Most people are going to hear wizard and sorcerer and immediatly think of harry potter or gandalf. They are not going to think about wookiepedia or novel 57 pages 396 where hobjangaremet the kimchi calls flematox grustelfarbmonkey a wizard in some derogatory manner.
It isn't a huge deal, but it certainly does feel strange.
Prolly a bad example, but I am fairly sure that that Ewok movie where the little girl's whole family gets offed (which I though was cool) featured a force sensitive lady they coined as a "sorceress".
Yup. There's multiple times in star wars lore where they have referred to force sensitive people as sorceress and witch. The witches of dothamir are a prime example of sith being called witches by the local inhabitants. And they might not have even been sith. There are alot of force users that are in a sort of gray area.
I expect to see new Force users appearing in this game, who potentially can have a number of names, variations on names and all manner of combinations. Lucas Arts are allowing new canon here, they have stated that they like Bioware to help develop this.
So all in all great thread but you ain't going to stop the names and conventions. I look forward to some new exciting twists when this game releases and I will enjoy every minute of it.
________________________________________________________ Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Sorceror is used quite often in fact; Sith sorcery is one form of dark side powers that appears quite often in SW media.
Jedi Wizard on the other hand, I've never heard of that; and it is quite unfitting imo as well.
Still, according to new interview with Daniel Erickson (lead writer), some of these things could still change; I hope they replace that particular on with something like 'Seer' or 'Sage' etc...
Haha yea I dunno about the "wizard" thing. I've never read a jedi being referred to as a wizard. That is what lucas envisioned them as but it's not in the lore. But then again, lucasarts has always embraced the 3rd party contributions to the starwars galaxy so who knows. I'm sure they will name them something appropriate. Star wars fans can get pretty brutal hehe
You're kidding right??? in 1977 with in the first what......15 minutes of A new Hope, Uncle ben Says Something to the effect that Old Ben is just a crazy wizard...........
Everyone has heard that argument but really he only says that cause he doesnt know about the force and thinks of it as magic so they call him a wizard. It was not a title or the type of jedi that he was. Really there were plenty of other good titles they could have used I think it was just a bad choice. The last thing I want to hear is needing more wizards or sorcerers for my raid in Star Wars. Everyones making it a bigger issue than it is but you have to wonder what they were thinking.
I think the lengths people have to go to in searching out references really illustrates how much these terms do no convey the feeling of star wars. It is an odd choice of names (even if it does fit the lore) for a game that is focusing on immersion and story telling.
Most people are going to hear wizard and sorcerer and immediatly think of harry potter or gandalf. They are not going to think about wookiepedia or novel 57 pages 396 where hobjangaremet the kimchi calls flematox grustelfarbmonkey a wizard in some derogatory manner.
It isn't a huge deal, but it certainly does feel strange.
I guess that goes for Knights too huh? And while you're at it get rid of the whole reference to fantasy.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
from an outside veiw they may be called wizards, but i really dont see the jedi order itself callign themselfves wizards. and a sith wizard just sounds silly.
i mean from what i know not once have they ever refered to themselves as wizards, altough others have refered to them as such possibly due to the lack of knolage about them.
from an outside veiw they may be called wizards, but i really dont see the jedi order itself callign themselfves wizards. and a sith wizard just sounds silly.
i mean from what i know not once have they ever refered to themselves as wizards, altough others have refered to them as such possibly due to the lack of knolage about them.
You mean sith sorcerer , which is part of the SW lore
while in the star wars movies the force users have been accused of being akin to witchcraft there sure as hell werent any wizards of the force lol. even sorcerer is a poor fit. they could have easily gone with blade master/force master or some variation there of to name the 2 paths, one obviously for mastering saber moves and the other for throwing meaner lightning chokes and life drains/heals.
just another reason i probably wont enjoy the game if it ever comes out sigh.
Cause blademaster and forcemaster is SO much more original. Calm down. There just advanced classes.
Please stop posting if your not going to play and your just gonna bitch.
While I do feel the names are a little unimaginative. I'm not sure they're exactly out of place, at least within this time-line. as I really don't know a whole lot about this time-line, outside of the KOTOR games. This time period is more or less unexplored for the most part is it not, at least in terms of life in the galaxy?
Now while in the films it is mentioned a few times that force users are viewed as wizards and/or sorcerers. It is true that these were more or less average Joe views post imperial take-over.
On the other hand, Jedi numbered in the thousands during this time period. Which would mean any force user who was good would be viewed in large part as a Jedi, at least in galactic terms. Yet possibly he isn't exactly a Jedi in terms of training? More so he is of a nature of force user that is known in his culture as a wizard? This is also taking into account the Adept description posted above. The same could be applied in the sith counterparts case.
Now that may be outside of your personal view, the whole concept could be. You have to consider it's usage in star wars lore long before this case. Who's to say exactly how it fits into the lore until we see how it's written in?
In general these times have been covered by if I'm not mistaken Dark Horse comics as well and believe the many posters who have made mention of the fact that Jedi and Sith have often been portrayed as wizards and sorcerers so to speak and there are even books that follow the time line after the films that had some Sith who could pass for wzards and such.
The craziest thing about this point though is they use force abilities to mind control people and fling things all over the place and we are here picking apart terminology.
PS I also liked the point made by another poster who eluded to the fact that while Star Wars is set in a technilogical setting it can just as easily be classified as fantasy.
Yeah you get a partial idea of these times from the Tales of the Jedi series. I was more speaking of seeing it motion, as in the in's and outs of life in this time period, which would include things such as professions. I'm aware we've read stories set in this timeline of course, I've always been a huge SW nerd.
LOL, so true they are basically casters. Mages, wizards or Jedi no matter, there's little difference. Some can shoot lighting, use magical shielding, start epic journeys to save a princess in distress (Leia), uh hello... etc...
Look at the main line up of characters, the boy squire, the old mage, the dashing rogue and his side-kick, the princess who always needs saving. On the other side you have the evil sorcerer/ruler, his army, and his chief executioner in his Black Knight.
I do not like the name of the sub-class, but to say it isn't in the lore, either shows you're knitpicking, or really don't know much about Star Wars.
Star wars is a mix of old cinema (Harryhausen style). as well as a bit of oldschool fantasy in lore or story. Only in look and setting is it sci-fi.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Comments
We'll see if these names stick all the way to release. I feel they are a bit strange as well. But I don't think it would be the end of my interest if it did happen to stick.
This happens, when people don't read books anymore and only watch the films.
Sorcerers and wizards are found in the books, so there's no reason, why the terms shouldn't be used in the game.
"A long time ago in a galaxy far, far away...."
You shall not forget that Star Wars isn't SciFi but fantasy to begin with.
Yeah, but it's not Dungeons n' Dragons either.
If i cared about the game this would probably bug me. I would want my Star Wars games to stay away from certain words.. wizards, dwarves, ect. I dunno it'll still be ok i'm sure.. though I don't think anyone would care about this game at all if it didn't have the Star Wars title... but it does... so people do.. fair enough I guess. I'm sure i'd fall for it too.
To bad it seems those people don't know to much about star wars.
Obi-Wan Kenobi: Wizard of the Desert
That wizard is just a crazy old man. Now, tomorrow I want you to take that R2 unit to Anchorhead and have it's memory erased. That'll be the end of it. It belongs to us now. - Uncle Owen, A New Hope
http://starwars.wikia.com/wiki/Sorcerers_of_Tund
Sorcerer: Slang for a Force-sensitive, used by Conan Antonio Motti to refer to Darth Vader.
To be correct, Star Wars can be tagged as 'science fantasy'.
While 'wizard' has few examples in the SW canon (Expanded Universe), the term 'sorcerors' and 'witches' has often been used to describe Sith/Dark Side practitioners of the Force.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Thanks for that.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Actually StarWars is and has always been a traditional fantasy ( like d and d ) set in space . If suddently elves or dwarves spouted up in this game then maybe there would be a problem . Correct me if i m wrong but I seam to remember Obi Wan Kenobi refered to as an old wizard by lukes uncle Owen ( this was within the first 30 mins of the very first StarWars movie ) . Also if you have a problem with the terms wizards and socerers you should have a problem with the term knights so its really a matter of ignoring one thing you find acceptable because you ve used to the term jedi knight since 1977 when its really just as acceptable or ridiculous as wizard in a sci fi setting depending on your view .
So at the end of the day either remove the term Knight from the Jedi or just accept its pretty stupid to have something against the term Wizard .
In general these times have been covered by if I'm not mistaken Dark Horse comics as well and believe the many posters who have made mention of the fact that Jedi and Sith have often been portrayed as wizards and sorcerers so to speak and there are even books that follow the time line after the films that had some Sith who could pass for wzards and such.
The craziest thing about this point though is they use force abilities to mind control people and fling things all over the place and we are here picking apart terminology.
PS I also liked the point made by another poster who eluded to the fact that while Star Wars is set in a technilogical setting it can just as easily be classified as fantasy.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
When they had a sith "magi" with a star-pattern-printed cap reminiscent of the wizard's from Fantasia, that probably should have been a tip off for something like this lol.
Tbh, I think being a Jedi Consular "Shadow" seems more awkward in name, though I know it's in the lore.
Lol I love Star Wars but you ppl NEED to get a life .... This topic is pointless ... wizard or sorcerer they are still jedi and sith ... nothing more nothing less ....
If you have ready any of the SW EU you will know that the sith did have sorcerers..Darth Zenah was Sith sorcerer.
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
What a silly thing to argue about..
What you should be complaining about is the fact that they are using the old crappy paradigm of "classes"
While I agree that this may be a less important complaint about the game, it still has some merit. In a genre where fantasy games are a dime a dozen, making a sci-fi MMO could easily attract gamers who are not into the fantasy genre. But adding in titles like "wizard" and "sorceror" causes those players who detest all things LoTR to reel in disgust, regardless of whether or not those titles are "canon".
I wholeheartedly agree with you on the class-based system issue though. If you're as pidgeon-holed in your abilities as these kinds of MMO's usually cause players to be, that will ruin it for me. If the system allows you have a reasonable offensive/defensive balance with a focus on certain kinds of abilities, I'd be fine with it. We'll have to wait and see I guess.
i hope they are going to change a few class names until the release, sounds like any other fantasy mmo out there to me.
Playing: Global Agenda / Vindictus
-----------------
Excited for: Guild Wars 2 / TERA / SWTOR
-----------------
Have Played: Ultima Online, World of Warcraft, Guild Wars, Lord of the Rings Online, Vanguard, CoH/CoV, EverQuest 1+2, Tabula Rasa, DDO, The Chronical of Spellborn, Warhammer Online, Age of Conan, Champions Online, Aion, FLYFF, ArchLord, Metin 2, DAoC, APB, CC, Darkfall and many many more
-----------------
Favorite MMO: Ultima Online
I think the lengths people have to go to in searching out references really illustrates how much these terms do no convey the feeling of star wars. It is an odd choice of names (even if it does fit the lore) for a game that is focusing on immersion and story telling.
Most people are going to hear wizard and sorcerer and immediatly think of harry potter or gandalf. They are not going to think about wookiepedia or novel 57 pages 396 where hobjangaremet the kimchi calls flematox grustelfarbmonkey a wizard in some derogatory manner.
It isn't a huge deal, but it certainly does feel strange.
I expect to see new Force users appearing in this game, who potentially can have a number of names, variations on names and all manner of combinations. Lucas Arts are allowing new canon here, they have stated that they like Bioware to help develop this.
So all in all great thread but you ain't going to stop the names and conventions. I look forward to some new exciting twists when this game releases and I will enjoy every minute of it.
________________________________________________________
Sorcery must persist, the future is the Citadel
Everyone has heard that argument but really he only says that cause he doesnt know about the force and thinks of it as magic so they call him a wizard. It was not a title or the type of jedi that he was. Really there were plenty of other good titles they could have used I think it was just a bad choice. The last thing I want to hear is needing more wizards or sorcerers for my raid in Star Wars. Everyones making it a bigger issue than it is but you have to wonder what they were thinking.
I guess that goes for Knights too huh? And while you're at it get rid of the whole reference to fantasy.
"Small minds talk about people, average minds talk about events, great minds talk about ideas."
im going to add my opinion on this.
from an outside veiw they may be called wizards, but i really dont see the jedi order itself callign themselfves wizards. and a sith wizard just sounds silly.
i mean from what i know not once have they ever refered to themselves as wizards, altough others have refered to them as such possibly due to the lack of knolage about them.
When did you start playing "old school" MMO's. World Of Warcraft?
You mean sith sorcerer , which is part of the SW lore
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
jedi/sith forcemaster/sabermaster would have bene much simpler more effective names that wouldnt have started flame warz threads.
Cause blademaster and forcemaster is SO much more original. Calm down. There just advanced classes.
Please stop posting if your not going to play and your just gonna bitch.
Yeah you get a partial idea of these times from the Tales of the Jedi series. I was more speaking of seeing it motion, as in the in's and outs of life in this time period, which would include things such as professions. I'm aware we've read stories set in this timeline of course, I've always been a huge SW nerd.
LOL, so true they are basically casters. Mages, wizards or Jedi no matter, there's little difference. Some can shoot lighting, use magical shielding, start epic journeys to save a princess in distress (Leia), uh hello... etc...
Look at the main line up of characters, the boy squire, the old mage, the dashing rogue and his side-kick, the princess who always needs saving. On the other side you have the evil sorcerer/ruler, his army, and his chief executioner in his Black Knight.
I do not like the name of the sub-class, but to say it isn't in the lore, either shows you're knitpicking, or really don't know much about Star Wars.
Star wars is a mix of old cinema (Harryhausen style). as well as a bit of oldschool fantasy in lore or story. Only in look and setting is it sci-fi.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson