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XP gets penalized....
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The only real concern I have with the XP system in regards to the slowing of XP gain the longer you play any given role is that I think it may lead away from people specializing in a certain area and promote too much people taking on every role. I believe their XP slowing would work IF there were enough classes in-game to spread out the player-base, however with there only being so many combat classes at the moment I don't see enough diversity for their system to allow major specialization. I'm willing to give SE the benefit of the doubt since I don't mind the idea on paper... I'm more concerned with the practicality of their idea in motion once it's actually working as they intend it too.
Full Sail University - Game Design
They did mention they will be adding more classes later on, so I'm guessing eventually, it'll all balance out.
I know they said "in time", however the reality is what happens at launch is what makes or breaks an MMO. Just look at AoC, that game has turned into a decent MMO, however because of the shit launch and poor reception it has never recovered. I hate saying it but MMO launches are do or die, it's either impress on first site or people will leave to the next MMO.
SE should be concerned about their launch a little more than they are, I myself don't see any of the things people are bitching about the most as big problems, however my tolerance level is higher than the average gamers.
Full Sail University - Game Design
it sneeds needs tweaking or just removed all together or do bonus xp instead of negative xp
Then again maybe they wouldn't even consider things like this if their retarded players didn't consider SUING them because their game is "too addictive". Aside from the few days off i'm taking for launch, most of the time (weekdays) i'm not going to be on for anytime longer than 5-6 hours except weekends, and in that case i'll probably doing 'things' not just exp'ing. Maybe they want you to do other things in the game, maybe they want you to just unplug. Chances are, if you're seriously bitching because it goes from 1000exp a kill to 900 after 5 hours, then your problems may be larger than the design of your latest mmo addiction.
If you don't like it, don't play it, I rather like that they weed out those with just a passing interest in the game, since like many point out, the FFXI community was fantastic, very unlike the WoW one where it's everyone for themselves (and the auto-grouping across servers exacerbated that to the Nth degree of people being absolute dicks to strangers).
While I agree with you overall, as launches can easily make or break a game, I would say MANY people were not impressed with WoW crashing constantly, qeues to log into a server, and restarts every morning at minimum when it was released. Yet that game succeeded just fine I would say.
I think there are enough people out there (hopefully) that still have patience and tolerance for games. They can't be perfect at launch. But I have faith that SE will do what it can to adjust and modify as they go to eventually create a great game. Personally, I look at it this way. The launch and first month or so will weed out the impatient, crybaby whiners that I wouldn't wanna party with anyway. It's sort of a good thing.
Edit: Thought I'd also mention that while I have faith in SE, I DO hate this xp penalty idea and hope it changes. I just don't think anyone should be freaking out before it is actually released. Freak out later, then move on :P
yea no point in freaking out it was just added this phase
Blah blah blah!! All I read is people whining and b***hing (which seems to happen with every single feature in the game) this time it's about only wanting to get to cap in 3 days cause you can do it in WoW. Here is a solution you have multiple classes to play on the same character USE THEM ALL!! You play one class to cap and pretty sure you will be useless because NEWS FLASH there has to be a reason for having more then one class per character.
Oh yeah here is a thought FFXI didn't have end game implemented for over a year after it's released maybe just maybe that is the reason for not having people cap all classes in a month. Oh and look FFXI was still a great MMO without the end game at release.
Seriously after reading post after post of just constant bashing over STUPID stuff I need to speak my mind. It's beta it's not the official release bash complain whine and b***h over something that is not official is just childish and petty. Here is something to new to most of you wait till release to judge the MMO.
I will just stop now even though I could go on and on.
Well as far as a game making or breaking at launch thats lil wrong. A strong start is nice but its an mmo subs are what matters in the long run. Initial sales are important since if you have the game then quit the game they can tempt you back because you already own the game. Its a tricky logic but basically AOC isn't this game. the expectations are too different as are the target audiences. With SE in time means in time nothing more than that the classes will be added over time since it works. The other issues in the game don't really worry me but they are there and its pointless to deny that they will have to fix them.
I think alot of the arguments and fear about launch are just that fear. If you look it up the game should be A ok at release giving SE a good 3-4 months to keep players playing. As far as the Asian audience goes the fact is they don't play like us and some of what annoys us they well simply don't give a sh*t about. Now despite all the fear US preorders are looking strong http://www.ffxivblog.com/content.php/290-FFXIV-Pre-Orders-Coming-On-Strong! at 115,502.
I think alot of the worry about getting launch off the ground is a lil preemptive. I think a lot of the issues we see being tossed around outside the ones they are going to fix are just FF and the way it is. With so many new eyes looking at this MMO and frustrated former players of FFXI I think some might have missed out on the population that played FFXI and just dealt with it. They accepted this is the way the game plays and moved on.
I am not sure since there are so many comments however for those who love this sort of FF niche where the hell else are they going to go? For those who don't want PK and rather find the E in PvE to be the biggest challenge and not other players where are they going to go? Even when tossing titles out there what is coming out any time soon with the scope and reach in our community to appease them? truly IMHO I really do think for some of us unless you want to go back to FFXi ( which I am sure a some-many will) will be stuck with this title and will try to make it work despite the real flaws and perceived flaws.
Our lil niche here is imho ignored because a bit since we aren't playing the WoW type game. the fact is in a way we are kind of on our own looking for some1 to make a game for us. With all the fear being tossed around I think I was more worried that some would come out and say "This doesn't feel like Final Fantasy." Some get angry and say that some of the posters who say this game will be so great and shrug off and ignore the complaints. The thing is maybe they are right to do so. Those things which make you think a game sucks or has you doubting the fun maybe the last thing you want to hear just before release if ever at all. For many I think SE over time has simply earned their trust and they believe that the guys there will pull through even if its rough at the start.
Like many FFXI was one of my first MMOs and when I picked up WoW I was surprised by the difference but I couldn't deny the fact that looking at each game comparing it to the other there were things missing from both no matter what way I looked at it. that is simply because there is no such thing as a perfect game. No matter how much bitching and moaning goes on there will be some1 that likes it just the way it is and there will be those that just accept the fact that they love it more than they hate it.
Sorry for the long post I know alot wont read it thats cool its just my thoughts up to this point.
At the point why be scared we are one month for CE. take a second and think your one month from the next Final Fantasy.
All this bitching is annoying. Play the game and see how it turns out. I really see nothing wrong with it. God forbid we ll actually take more then a month or 2 to cap one job. That was what I liked about FFXI it took effort.
The open beta will be a pretty huge test for this game as the game you play there will more or less the game they will be launching bar ongoing tweaks and bug fixes. The mechanics and general ideas of the launch game will all be present in open beta without the constraints placed on them by this phase of beta and viewable to outside players for the first time and if it receives as much negative press as closed beta it could end badly, even the FF fan sites are ripping this game apart.
The views of people I've played games with for a long time, including FFXI which a lot are still playing, people whose's opinions I trust who are in closed Beta all more or less give the same verdict. This game simply isn't ready for launch and it needs 3-4 more months of development time to sort it out, myself I plan on playing the open beta and making my own mind up but it's looking more and more like you'd be best waiting for the PS3 version to be released and all these things should be ironed out by then.
Yep, outside looking in can't really help that. I can however be sad that a beta is generating "uproar" instead of feedback. Oh I'm sure its generating feedback but honestly its probably about 10x more headache inducing than it needs to be. I wish I could experience it for myself, but I'm happy to debate game mechanics regardless. Admittedly its hard to form an argument for or against when its xp gain is blocked, and job switching doesn't work quite right because of stats, and oh yes because of a complicated level layering system as well. Honestly? Are we still talking about the xp thing or is that just sorta the flavor of the week?
I wouldn't throw too many stones at casual players btw. Its the kind of backhanded handling of casuals that makes them really despise the people who consider themselves hardcore and leads to more flaming than anything. For every casual player who doesn't know anything, there's a casual player who knows everything and simply plays little. For every hardcore player with endless time who knows everything, there's an idjit who never stops playing that noone can stand because they're always around needing their hand held.
Also, hardcore people are even more likely to jump ship to the next game, after all they're the ones who power leveled to the end and sat around with nothing to do. Or they'll jump ship for a time, and come back, or move on to something else, or they'll be terrorizing some other poor beta forums. Casual people generally just want to be enjoying the time they spend recreationally, hardcores are the ones who need their pixels to MEAN something.
There's no winning a casual versus hardcore debate in an established game, let alone in a beta because the mechanics aren't set, they might be broken, and they might be in the process of being balanced... or they might not. All I can say is to those people in beta, if you don't like the mechanic explain why, if its because of synergy with other system like not being able to switch jobs easily enough, make sure THAT argument is made. The ZOMG i can't grind for 8 hours is the kind of thing nobody is going to have any sympathy for.
I appreciate the responses popinjay, its never clear whether form posts are arguments or debates, but I'm finding the discussion interesting regardless.
Personally I don't believe this will make it into the current game in it's current form.
There may be an xp penalty for playing a lot, but I wouldn't expect it to get to the point where your main class becomes unplayable.
So from my point of view, all this is just a big fuss over nothing. Yes - it looks scarey. But I'm pretty sure it will be sorted out in the end to most peoples satisfaction. Bear in mind that Square-Enix are a Japanese company and aren't likely to do something to piss off their core customer base (the Japanese mentality is very supportive of hard work and teamwork).
D&D Home Page - What Class Are You? - Build A Character - D&D Compendium
rather than limiting xp from a class you were playing too long they should increase (i.e rested) xp for a class you have neglected. This would seem less restrictive. However it would appear that because of the skill system ideally you're looking to lvl 2/3 classes at the same time anyway to make the most of the combined skills, So it may not be as restrictive as it seems.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Personally, I'm on the fence as far as this goes. True, it's a definite bummer for the "ZOMG MUST GET MAX LEVEL IN 2 DAYS AND DO ENDGAME NAOW!!!!!" crowd, but I think it will do well to encourage people to branch out from one specific thing at a time and force variety.
I mean, face it, this game is for a casual player. The hardcore people aren't the audience S-E is aiming this game at, they want the WoW players, they want the people that play for a few hours and log off a few times a week. Why? Because casual players aren't constantly screaming at S-E for new endgame content (because they haven't gotten to it yet), yet they pay the same amount per month as anyone else. They're more easily satisfied.
You gotta understand, S-E is coming off of FFXI, which arguably was skewed COMPLETELY the other way: until the last couple years or so, NOTHING in that game wasn't a huge, ball-breaking grind. Pretty much every single review of the game said something similar: "good(decent) game, ball-breaking grind". I'm not surprised they are putting in mechanisms to reward the casual market and inhibit the power levelers.
Plus, I'm sure they want to foster an in game community that is open for everyone, regardless of when they decide to subscribe to the game. Any veteran FFXI player knows, if you didn't start that game in it's heyday, you were completely screwed. There were countless events that were dead even when I started playing in 2005 because the community as a whole had already progressed beyond it, something that S-E has gotten grief for, and I'm sure are trying to avoid here.
If it really bothers you, don't play the game. As always, vote with your wallet. Maybe S-E will patch it later?
I still have no idea what this means, and I'm not in the beta so I can't access the forums. I tried googling "FFXIV physical level dissipation" and found nothing. Are you saying that there is a surplus meter for each of your classes and also a separate surplus meter for physical level which takes longer to go away? Because I don't see anyone else here saying that this is the case.
can i just get clarity on one issue i have thought about?
does your exp diminish only as you are gaining exp? or is it based on game time?
Imagine spending 3 hours logged in looking for a group as one class only to find that when you start grping you're getting no exp. If that is the case its going to be very important to have several classes (3/4) within a few lvls of each other
I find it strange that people are saying this is designed to help casual and hinder the hardcore because as far as I can find out it has far more to do with only levelling one class that it does how much time you spend playing.
For example if you buy the game on launch and proceed to make a Gladiator and find it a lot of fun so you don't try a different class, nothing wrong with that is there? you bought the game to have fun and you are having fun playing Gladiator. However when you get to say level 15 you notice you are gaining surplus experience, it doesn't matter if you get the class to 15 in the course of an afternoon or over the course of a week. It's not time spent playing it's the disparity in not having another class close in level that causes the class surplus, casual players will reach it at around the same time /played as a hardcore player will. Plus you don't seem to lose fatigue by logging out, you have to level another class, or even 2-3 no one knows yet, to be close to your main's level. Again a hardcore might get those classes levelled in a day or 2 where it might take weeks for someone with less time to be able to get back to progressing their Gladiator.
Another thing it's well and fine saying you should level other classes but how far will we have to level these 'surplus drain classes'? all the way to the level cap? half way to level cap? this could potentially be a massive time sink where you have to level classes you might not really enjoy all that much. Do people really want to have to take 2,3 or even 4 classes close to the cap before they can try some end game content?
Instead of playing for 50 hours and progressing you will be forced to back track again and again replaying the same content to prevent surplus, whether or not you have fun levelling other classes is something SE don't care about, you'll have to do it and that's that.
In fact it could hamper casual players more because they might not have the time to level other classes to disperse their surplus where hardcore players probably do. The hardcore are also far more likely to go to extreme lengths, for example to level a second or even third class quite high simply for an ability that might give them a 2% boost in damage so that might help disperse surplus. A casual player is far less likely to replay the same content again just for a 2% boost.
People also seem to be assuming that 'casual' players will simply mess about trying out different classes without really ever sticking to 1 which from my experience is wrong, any of the friends I've had in MMORPGs that I'd consider 'casual' have tended to stick to 1 or 2 classes so they can make the best use of their limited time to see more of the content. this is huge wall in front of people like that. They won't be simply able to progress the story as they'll have to spend precious time levelling other classes simply so they aren't punished severely for playing their favourite class
From what I can see people who consider themselves casual could well be hit harder by this than anyone, people should stop assuming that just because you play fewer hours that you want to mess about constantly levelling alts and not focus on 1-2 classes to progress the story as far as they would like.
And yes, there is a surplus on your physical level as well but it doesn't seem to be clear how that works. People have seen the "reward casual players" and assumed this will be good for them without really thinking it through.
Kordac, while you raise some valid concerns, you may be slightly misinformed on how the surplus system works. From my understanding (I could be mistaken as well), surplus only kicks in when you're earning too much experience in a specific amount of time for just one class. In this case, someone who is more casual likely won't have the surplus issue even if they only level one class since they aren't grinding for 8 hours a day. They play for a bit, then log for the day, then come back the next day and still don't have the surplus issue.
From my understanding that is physical fatigue, not class fatigue.
http://www.ffxivcore.com/topic/11506-a-few-questions-on-surplus/ this is quite a good topic over at FFXIVcore on the subject
Ehhh either way, fatigue isn't that big of a deal =P Personally, I'm all for it. Whenever I play an MMO, if I'm able to reach max level within a month or two, I get bored and want to quit the game. If this is a way to keep people from hitting max level for a while, and keep us in a state of having "more to do" each day, then so be it. I'll gladly welcome it.
Yeah, in reading that other thread, it seems kinda bitchy, but at the same time, it still forces variety. I understand that some people like to get on an MMO and just speed through to endgame, but that's NOT the majority.
I have a feeling this is gonna get tweaked a bit and lessened after the Beta is over, but the presence of it as a concept is not a game breaker for me. I don't know, I'm the type to try everything, so maybe I don;t mind it as much. In FFXI I had every job to the 30's before I even had a 75...it's just the way I played. So this wouldn't really effect me much.
Any way you look at it, it seems like S-E is trying to prevent people from getting to the endgame level too fast, and I can understand that to a certain extent. Like I said earlier, the people that fly through the early stuff are the ones going to S-E screaming for expansions. I know that a lack of low level players was a HUGE complaint in Final Fantasy XI until they added the level sync system and Fields of Valor to make lower levels less painful.
I have a friend of mine that is one of those hard core players. Started playing Final Fantasy in 2003 in the NA Beta, and by late 2005 he'd quit the game because he'd literally done EVERYTHING. Had like every job to 75, all the uber endgame gear, etc. Moved on to WoW. Did everything there is to do there within a couple years, got all the best gear. Moved on to Aion, same thing. Now he's in the FFXIV beta, and I'm sure without the fatique, he would have every single job maxed out already. It's like all he does, 8 hours at work, 12 hours on game. Rinse, repeat.
Sure, everybody has the right to play a game however they want within the terms of service, but you really can't fault a company for trying to prevent people from playing 20 hours a day for 6 months and then quitting. That's just not a sustainable business model. They need the bulk of people to be in it for the long haul.
When I was playing at my friends house, we played for about 10 hours straight without having to switch to a different job type. Maybe I'm missing something here? :P
I'm almost willing to bet this fatigue system will lose them more players than allowing a very few people to play 12 hours a day and then get bored would.
If this system goes live the game will get absolutely slaughtered by the press and gamers in general here in the west.