First..I like to thank whilan for making the first useful post.
I regret making this post. Now that I've seen what the SW:TOR community is like, I will NOT play this game. It's not about the game man, it's about the people. That is especially true for a social game like MMO.
First this isn't the TOR community, this is the MMORPG.com community. Maybe you're new, maybe you don't visit often, but this is the response you would get within any game forum here.
This is where people come to PVP over games, this is the last place people would come to build in-game communities.
The only info you will receive here is what you see on the front page of this site. Even worse most won't even have that much info to go on before they jump on one of the sides, to get in on some forum PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
First..I like to thank whilan for making the first useful post.
I regret making this post. Now that I've seen what the SW:TOR community is like, I will NOT play this game. It's not about the game man, it's about the people. That is especially true for a social game like MMO.
First this isn't the TOR community, this is the MMORPG.com community. Maybe you're new, maybe you don't visit often, but this is the response you would get within any game forum here.
This is where people come to PVP over games, it isn't where people come to build in-game communities.
The only info you will receive here is what you see on the front page of this site. Even worse most won't even have that much info to go on before they jump on one of the sides, to get in on some forum PVP.
That is why I say convince yourself. It's also the inferred arrogance of a pointer haired manager that comes across when someone tells me to convince them especially when it's about something that is based upon personal likes, dislikes and opinion, not facts.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
First..I like to thank whilan for making the first useful post.
I regret making this post. Now that I've seen what the SW:TOR community is like, I will NOT play this game. It's not about the game man, it's about the people. That is especially true for a social game like MMO.
First this isn't the TOR community, this is the MMORPG.com community. Maybe you're new, maybe you don't visit often, but this is the response you would get within any game forum here.
This is where people come to PVP over games, it isn't where people come to build in-game communities.
The only info you will receive here is what you see on the front page of this site. Even worse most won't even have that much info to go on before they jump on one of the sides, to get in on some forum PVP.
That is why I say convince yourself. It's also the inferred arrogance of a pointer haired manager that comes across when someone tells me to convince them especially when it's about something that is based upon personal likes, dislikes and opinion, not facts.
Opinions are based on information (while not necessarily facts). You cannot form an opinion on something without that information.
I have an opinion about this game based on the information I have collected. I'm also here to collect more information, and so far..I have collected nothing. Whether this is the SWTOR community or not, this is the SWTOR section of MMORPG.com. I should be able to collect some information. But so far, nobody on this forum is willing to give me that. That either means there's something wrong with the people or the game.
So you would base your opinion, in part, on someone else's opinion of the same information you have gathered but only if that opinion is positive.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though)
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc)
- Bioware polish and quality level
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways
- Massively large and many worlds to explore
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas
- Space minigames is cinematic experience
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it)
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
So you would base your opinion, in part, on someone else's opinion of the same information you have gathered but only if that opinion is positive.
You cannot guarantee that they're the identical information that I have collected already. Therefore, it is still worthy to collect that information.
Anyone's opinion can be rephrased to get rid of the opinion part and leave only information, simply by getting rid of that "I like" or "I hate" part of it.
First..I like to thank whilan for making the first useful post.
I regret making this post. Now that I've seen what the SW:TOR community is like, I will NOT play this game. It's not about the game man, it's about the people. That is especially true for a social game like MMO.
First this isn't the TOR community, this is the MMORPG.com community. Maybe you're new, maybe you don't visit often, but this is the response you would get within any game forum here.
This is where people come to PVP over games, it isn't where people come to build in-game communities.
The only info you will receive here is what you see on the front page of this site. Even worse most won't even have that much info to go on before they jump on one of the sides, to get in on some forum PVP.
That is why I say convince yourself. It's also the inferred arrogance of a pointer haired manager that comes across when someone tells me to convince them especially when it's about something that is based upon personal likes, dislikes and opinion, not facts.
Opinions are based on information (while not necessarily facts). You cannot form an opinion on something without that information.
I have an opinion about this game based on the information I have collected. I'm also here to collect more information, and so far..I have collected nothing. Whether this is the SWTOR community or not, this is the SWTOR section of MMORPG.com. I should be able to collect some information. But so far, nobody on this forum is willing to give me that. That either means there's something wrong with the people or the game.
I can only speak for myself personally. I haven't exactly formed an opinion of TOR yet. I see positive aspects such as story based progression, seemingly open world design, characters with life in them. Alhough, the cutscenes I've seen, haven't exactly screamed Bioware quality yet. That could be because they're more or less trash convo's (side-quests), I'm not sure though.
Like yourself most are probably still waiting to be sold on TOR, why not try and sell it to us?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
So you would base your opinion, in part, on someone else's opinion of the same information you have gathered but only if that opinion is positive.
You cannot guarantee that they're the identical information that I have collected already. Therefore, it is still worthy to collect that information.
Anyone's opinion can be rephrased to get rid of the opinion part and leave only information, simply by getting rid of that "I like" or "I hate" part of it.
So...what is your grunty "opinion" of this game?
My opinion of this game is that it is not publically available for play even to professional reviewers and thus does not warrant any significant research into whether I like it or not.
Yet.
It doesn't matter that Bioware is developing it. It doesn't matter that it's about Star Wars. What matters, at this time, is that it isn't playable and thus not worth investigating whether I might or might not like it.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
Why should anyone bother to try to "sell" you on playing this game? Are you someone incredibly special? I mean that kiddingly. Seriously though, you know your tastes, what you enjoy, dont enjoy, and so on. It seems like an utter waste of time for another person to try to summarize a game that hasnt been released yet, so you cant go find out for yourself.
A lot of folks have pointed out great features, but do yourself a favor, and go check out some fan or info sites for yourself, and then determine if SWTOR has some features that might appeal to you. It's obvious that SWTOR isnt going to appeal to everyone, so find what you like.
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though)
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc)
- Bioware polish and quality level
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways
- Massively large and many worlds to explore
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas
- Space minigames is cinematic experience
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it)
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal
Good! A lot better than those that's been arguing about the point of the thread and not leaving actual information.
I like more details on how they're shifting away from "pure tank/spank/heal".
Why should anyone bother to try to "sell" you on playing this game? Are you someone incredibly special? I mean that kiddingly. Seriously though, you know your tastes, what you enjoy, dont enjoy, and so on. It seems like an utter waste of time for another person to try to summarize a game that hasnt been released yet, so you cant go find out for yourself.
A lot of folks have pointed out great features, but do yourself a favor, and go check out some fan or info sites for yourself, and then determine if SWTOR has some features that might appeal to you. It's obvious that SWTOR isnt going to appeal to everyone, so find what you like.
So far what I've found is that they really emphasize on the story telling..then..why make MMO if you don't emphasize on social?
I think that's a general concern people have with their approach. How will it encourage multiplayer activity? Everything we've learned at any depth has been basically something that will discourage the idea of group activity.
Not to say I believe one way or the other on the idea of a full on open world MMO under the hood. I haven't seen enough to make a judgement in that regard.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Good! A lot better than those that's been arguing about the point of the thread and not leaving actual information.
I like more details on how they're shifting away from "pure tank/spank/heal".
Mind you, it's a fluid opinion, based upon the info I've read and seen up till now, so it can change over time, but it's 3 things that gave me the impression that they're either doing variants of Trinity combat gameplay or moving away somewhat from the classic Trinity team combat we know from other MMO's:
- the Companions that are intended to compensate for any lacking role, even if a team has 2 tanks and 2 DPS-types or 1 healer, 2 CC and 1 DPS.
- the hybrid/multitask character of the classes (as seen so far, and as explained in interviews so far)
- the group video I saw that didn't look and feel (to me) as traditional tank/spank/heal trinity.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I admit that I haven't read much on SW:TOR. I figured the place that I can get a good sense of the game is to just ask :P. So can all you SW:TOR fanbois out there give me a quick overview of what's good about SW:TOR? Kind of like the kind of introduction you'll find on the game's box?
I only want to hear about positive things. If you're going to relate to other games, that's fine, but please only positive comments about them.
Spoiler: No point, you're already sold. You entered the event horizon of SW:TOR's black hole a long time ago, or you wouldnt be posting in this forum lol. Prepare to be spaghettified!
- Open world PvP not sure seems it will be instanced
- Cinematic questing
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)LONG and many dialogs.
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function World quest outcome decided by group vote
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though) Ranged combat looks weird at point blank distance. NPC IA needs improvements at least at lower levels
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc) Companions "required" for PUG and PvP, no real pet classes
- Bioware polish and quality level Too many restrictions: weapons, species, space ships, gear
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO Cartoonish graphics and Heroic proportions
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways Group size = 4
- Massively large and many worlds to explore Mostly clueless of the size of the world so far
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas Lots of instanced areas to preserve the story feeling
- Space minigames is cinematic experience Tunnel shooter, boring very fast, and single player. Mostly same stuff F2P in CWA
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it) Far from SWG, and certainly on par with Kotor and WoW
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal Not really, the trinity is there.
Some more:
No vanity gear system / Social clothing tab.
Not a forgiving game: no advanced class respec + you are stuck in your story choice => regrind through hours of same story.
16 classes that are in fact 8=> less skill choices for each + limited weapons + limited gear.
4 (8) force sensitive classes = impossible to create the force user you'd like to
2 factions without ability to switch ever
Only 6 different space ships, none that aren't mobile homes. The space ship chassis is imposed by your class choice.
Probably no planetary housing even instanced.
Pureblood Siths that look like Elves
Sith Inquisitor gear that look like WoW warlock
Consular robes that look like EQ ones.
For SWG Fans: no pure crafter nor entertainer classes.
Default UI not very good and takes lots of screen space.
- Open world PvP not sure seems it will be instanced
- Cinematic questing
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)LONG and many dialogs.
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function World quest outcome decided by group vote
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though) Ranged combat looks weird at point blank distance. NPC IA needs improvements at least at lower levels
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc) Companions "required" for PUG and PvP, no real pet classes
- Bioware polish and quality level Too many restrictions: weapons, species, space ships, gear
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO Cartoonish graphics and Heroic proportions
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways Group size = 4
- Massively large and many worlds to explore Mostly clueless of the size of the world so far
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas Lots of instanced areas to preserve the story feeling
- Space minigames is cinematic experience Tunnel shooter, boring very fast, and single player. Mostly same stuff F2P in CWA
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it) Far from SWG, and certainly on par with Kotor and WoW
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal Not really, the trinity is there.
Some more:
No vanity gear system / Social clothing tab.
Not a forgiving game: no advanced class respec + you are stuck in your story choice => regrind through hours of same story.
16 classes that are in fact 8=> less skill choices for each + limited weapons + limited gear.
4 (8) force sensitive classes = impossible to create the force user you'd like to
2 factions without ability to switch ever
Only 6 different space ships, none that aren't mobile homes. The space ship chassis is imposed by your class choice.
Probably no planetary housing even instanced.
Pureblood Siths that look like Elves
Sith Inquisitor gear that look like WoW warlock
Consular robes that look like EQ ones.
For SWG Fans: no pure crafter nor entertainer classes.
Default UI not very good and takes lots of screen space.
Companion races and body not customizable
Character body options very limited
I would correct you on how what, 18 of the 20? or so things you said or tried to change around are wrong, but that seems like work.
Just check the site, watch videos, and wait till the game is much closer to release.
- Open world PvP not sure seems it will be instanced. Nope, it won't be, latest news from Gamescom: open world PvP but not like AoC FFA PvP as soon as you leave the city (probably more like WoW and WAR w areas that are 'safe' from PvP and areas that are not)
- Cinematic questing
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)LONG and many dialogs. True: if you like WoW questing and didn't like dialogue system in DA:O and ME1&2, you probably won't like it in SW:TOR. One positive thing for the WoW quest-lovers: VO can be turned to text and then they can skip it as much as they did in WoW or sortlike MMO's.
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though) Ranged combat looks weird at point blank distance. NPC IA needs improvements at least at lower levels. Ranger/hunter in other MMO's at point blank look as strange, enough (crime/mafia/etc) movies btw where they use guns at point blank range too where you won't see the same for use of bow that close. NPC IA needs finetuning, there have been examples of NPC's reacting smarter and seeking cover etc, but not (yet) consistently
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc)
- Bioware polish and quality level
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO Cartoonish graphics and Heroic proportions Irrelevant, WoW and LotrO graphics are cartoonish and characters are even more laughable, still enough players do feel immersed in those worlds. It all depends on how they make the world environments shine and 'true' to Star Wars feel. Screenshots of the various worlds and areas show that this is one aspect they'll actually turn out to be very good in.
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways
- Massively large and many worlds to explore Mostly clueless of the size of the world so far Not really, read more the playtester reports and statements of the devs
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas
- Space minigames is cinematic experience
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it) Far from SWG, and certainly on par with Kotor and WoW You can't know because the details aren't out yet. But for the SWG vets, once again: SW TOR will NOT be SWG2. Sorry guys, but there's still SWG for you if that's more to your liking.
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal
Sorry. You failed. Massively.
The OP stated clearly 'sell me SW:TOR', and instead you went on a self satisfactory rant rampage.
So sad, so meagre comprehension skill, so much fail and ignoring the OP
But no worries, I corrected your wrongness in your post by cutting the useless irrelevant parts and lifting your ignorance
Oh, to OP, 1 thing I forgot to mention:
- customisable player spaceship as base of command > player housing in other MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I would correct you on how what, 18 of the 20? or so things you said or tried to change around are wrong, but that seems like work.
Just check the site, watch videos, and wait till the game is much closer to release.
Please be my guest correct me so I can debunk you
From my fast review and sources I can't quote here I would agree we might have more space ship chassis available, but the rest is pretty much accurate.
I admit that I haven't read much on SW:TOR. I figured the place that I can get a good sense of the game is to just ask :P. So can all you SW:TOR fanbois out there give me a quick overview of what's good about SW:TOR? Kind of like the kind of introduction you'll find on the game's box?
I only want to hear about positive things. If you're going to relate to other games, that's fine, but please only positive comments about them.
How can we sell you that which is not yet sold? The official website is one of the best portals to information about the game.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
- Open world PvP not sure seems it will be instanced. Nope, it won't be, latest news from Gamescom: open world PvP but not like AoC FFA PvP as soon as you leave the city (probably more like WoW and WAR w areas that are 'safe' from PvP and areas that are not). There are instanced areas everywhere so yo can enjoy your story based content
- Cinematic questing
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)LONG and many dialogs. True: if you like WoW questing and didn't like dialogue system in DA:O and ME1&2, you probably won't like it in SW:TOR. One positive thing for the WoW quest-lovers: VO can be turned to text and then they can skip it as much as they did in WoW or sortlike MMO's. We both agree. I don't say I don't like VO but I know most MMO players will find it too slow as people read much faster.
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though) Ranged combat looks weird at point blank distance. NPC IA needs improvements at least at lower levels. Ranger/hunter in other MMO's at point blank look as strange, enough (crime/mafia/etc) movies btw where they use guns at point blank range too where you won't see the same for use of bow that close. NPC IA needs finetuning, there have been examples of NPC's reacting smarter and seeking cover etc, but not (yet) consistently I see you agree it's bad now. BTW beause others games have bad ranged combat isn't an excuse. Especially with a blaster.
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc)
- Bioware polish and quality level
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO Cartoonish graphics and Heroic proportions Irrelevant, WoW and LotrO graphics are cartoonish and characters are even more laughable, still enough players do feel immersed in those worlds. It all depends on how they make the world environments shine and 'true' to Star Wars feel. Screenshots of the various worlds and areas show that this is one aspect they'll actually turn out to be very good in. Just a matter or personal perception. It looks like a game for kiddies.
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways
- Massively large and many worlds to explore Mostly clueless of the size of the world so far Not really, read more the playtester reports and statements of the devs. From the last reports the players aren't impressed by the size of the starting zones. We will have a better feeling much later on. But we can agree starting zones are usually small.
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas
- Space minigames is cinematic experience
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it) Far from SWG, and certainly on par with Kotor and WoW You can't know because the details aren't out yet. But for the SWG vets, once again: SW TOR will NOT be SWG2. Sorry guys, but there's still SWG for you if that's more to your liking. We do know they stated it won't be SWG and more like WoW crafting. Also they pointed at Kotor workbench.
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal
Sorry. You failed. Massively.
The OP stated clearly 'sell me SW:TOR', and instead you went on a self satisfactory rant rampage.
So sad, so meagre comprehension skill, so much fail and ignoring the OP
Nope I played the devil's advocate on purpose, better to lower his expectations now and have him pleasantly surprised later on.
But no worries, I corrected your wrongness in your post by cutting the useless irrelevant parts and lifting your ignorance
Oh, to OP, 1 thing I forgot to mention:
- customisable player spaceship as base of command > player housing in other MMO's
100% disagree. Not looking at playing a snail. My house has to sit on a specific planet as a hideout. But once again a matter of opinion. I agree they didn't say there won't be planetary housing yet but I doubt it. Would be glad if it's there though
Nope I played the devil's advocate on purpose, better to lower his expectations now and have him pleasantly surprised later on.
I'm not going to requote your whole post, too much! So I only picked the parts I replied to.
Some things you mentioned are indeed personal preference, nothing much to say about that, tastes differ. About the playing devil's advocate, I can see a point in it, no need to boost a hype and someone's expectations artificially. Still, it's not the OP's request, but that's a side note.
About the player housing, I disagree: I have had player houses in other MMO's, and I didn't do that much with it besides decorating a bit and showing it to friends (although ofc ANet is going to the extreme again w GW2, making a whole player district with all kinds of Personal Story quests happening there. Those bastards really want me to get addicted). SW:TOR's player ship is far more functional, it's like in ME2 where you start your travels to other planets, decide from there where to go to next or what to do etc. If it's like it was in ME2 but now in a MMO, I can only applaud it.
There are instanced areas everywhere so yo can enjoy your story based content I don't see what that has to do with open world PvP with large persistent open world areas. Sure, you can hide in an instanced room of a hut in an open world area until the 'bad men' have left, in much the same way as you can hide from opponents near guards in other MMO's
I see you agree it's bad now. BTW beause others games have bad ranged combat isn't an excuse. Especially with a blaster. Why accept such a thing in other MMO's and suddenly the same thing not for SW:TOR? That's measuring w 2 standards. Besides that, I think it'll not be the purpose to use blasters at point blank range especially if you're not a tank-type class. Gets you killed fast. Also especially not since each class has both ranged and melee skills (not 100% sure, should need to verify it but this is what I recall).
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Gotcha, I thought you were saying my assumptions are wrong.
Originally posted by cyphers
Originally posted by Deewe
Nope I played the devil's advocate on purpose, better to lower his expectations now and have him pleasantly surprised later on.
I'm not going to requote your whole post, too much! So I only picked the parts I replied to.
Some things you mentioned are indeed personal preference, nothing much to say about that, tastes differ. About the playing devil's advocate, I can see a point in it, no need to boost a hype and someone's expectations artificially. Still, it's not the OP's request, but that's a side note.
About the player housing, I disagree: I have had player houses in other MMO's, and I didn't do that much with it besides decorating a bit and showing it to friends (although ofc ANet is going to the extreme again w GW2, making a whole player district with all kinds of Personal Story quests happening there. Those bastards really want me to get addicted). SW:TOR's player ship is far more functional, it's like in ME2 where you start your travels to other planets, decide from there where to go to next or what to do etc. If it's like it was in ME2 but now in a MMO, I can only applaud it.
As reference, among other things I was a mayor, city planner and house decorator in SWG at a time. That being said while housing had some interesting elements in TOR it was a bit too much free for all placement. Cities lacked the ability to level the ground, add grass, pavement textures to make neat cities. Cities walls would have been welcome too. LotRo system while interesting: being able to decorate the exterior, is flawed. Almost all neighborhood are empty. The perfect solution is to have instanced housing in NPC cities. It will cater all the players in the social hubs still providing housing and never ending as ghost cities or weird cities layouts.
As a space sim fan I don't look forward driving a mobile home in combat, even if it's the millennium falcon.
There are instanced areas everywhere so yo can enjoy your story based content I don't see what that has to do with open world PvP with large persistent open world areas. Sure, you can hide in an instanced room of a hut in an open world area until the 'bad men' have left, in much the same way as you can hide from opponents near guards in other MMO's
They said WAR zones will be mostly as in WoW so you can expect instanced PvP. What we don't know for now is if there will be open PvP. Now for the PvE instances, there will be much more than in any regular MMO but AoC.
I see you agree it's bad now. BTW beause others games have bad ranged combat isn't an excuse. Especially with a blaster. Why accept such a thing in other MMO's and suddenly the same thing not for SW:TOR? That's measuring w 2 standards. Besides that, I think it'll not be the purpose to use blasters at point blank range especially if you're not a tank-type class. Gets you killed fast. Also especially not since each class has both ranged and melee skills (not 100% sure, should need to verify it but this is what I recall).
Maybe because a laser rifle looks more like a ranged weapon than a bow. Still I do hate AoC ranger point blank shots, it kills the immersion. So far we didn't get any info about range (dis)advantage depending on the equippped weapon. In fact we know very few of the game play
I admit that I haven't read much on SW:TOR. I figured the place that I can get a good sense of the game is to just ask :P. So can all you SW:TOR fanbois out there give me a quick overview of what's good about SW:TOR? Kind of like the kind of introduction you'll find on the game's box?
I only want to hear about positive things. If you're going to relate to other games, that's fine, but please only positive comments about them.
Is this even a serious post? Why would you go to a site that is known for hating a game like SWTOR and as for information on it?
Gotcha, I thought you were saying my assumptions are wrong. Eh? Ah yes, some were wrong and not conform the dev info released and video material and playtester reporters available, some I disagree with, and some were personal taste and preference. Plain untruths can be corrected by quoting or posting the right info, but regarding taste and preference, well, each one's taste is different.
As reference, among other things I was a mayor, city planner and house decorator in SWG at a time. That being said while housing had some interesting elements in TOR it was a bit too much free for all placement. Cities lacked the ability to level the ground, add grass, pavement textures to make neat cities. Cities walls would have been welcome too. LotRo system while interesting: being able to decorate the exterior, is flawed. Almost all neighborhood are empty. The perfect solution is to have instanced housing in NPC cities. It will cater all the players in the social hubs still providing housing and never ending as ghost cities or weird cities layouts.
I think SWG is one of the few examples where player housing really worked, because of the way player cities worked, but in most MMO's it's a bland feature with little meaning: like in LotrO. I experienced player housing in EQ2, where it was in the NPC cities with an instanced player house. It was a nice-to-have, but also didn't give me that feel of having something special. I didn't use it that much, even when trading/selling stuff. The SW:TOR player ship so far sounds like it'll be a feature that'll find more active use than player houses in most MMO's. Besides, in the movies Han Solo did go into battle with his 'home'.
They said WAR zones will be mostly as in WoW so you can expect instanced PvP. What we don't know for now is if there will be open PvP. Now for the PvE instances, there will be much more than in any regular MMO but AoC.
As playtesters have confirmed, the world will feel far more organic in its open-worldness than other MMO's, basically because the story instances and persistent open world areas transition seamlessly, no loading screens at all, you just walk through an open-door into a story-instanced room back and forth as easy as if it was a normal room. WoW doesn't have that, LotrO and EQ2 neither, and even GW2 has no seamless transitioning but has loading screens and wait times.
As for open world PvP, that is also confirmed that you have Warzones and next to that open world PvP.
These are two of your arguments where reality has exposed them to be untrue and reality to be different, as confirmed repeatedly in BW statements and/or player reports. When posters start to do that, blatantly ignoring the repeated statements of devs and playtesters in favor of their own beliefs, that's when it's not ignorance or being wrongly or uninformed anymore, and that's when I usually start to frown and to get suspicious of a poster's motives. Generally speaking; I'm not saying that I'm that level of suspicious yet here.
Maybe because a laser rifle looks more like a ranged weapon than a bow. Still I do hate AoC ranger point blank shots, it kills the immersion. So far we didn't get any info about range (dis)advantage depending on the equippped weapon. In fact we know very few of the game play
Laser rifle, bow, a warlock shooting fireballs at pointblank range while an opponent is hacking in to him with a broadsword while the warlock's wearing flimsy unprotective clothes, it can all look strange. Besides, it was the new playtesters walking up close to touching distance to the mobs and standing there while shooting, maybe not the most sensible thing to do when you don't want to die a lot. For the rest, we'll have to see when we learn more of the game play.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Comments
First this isn't the TOR community, this is the MMORPG.com community. Maybe you're new, maybe you don't visit often, but this is the response you would get within any game forum here.
This is where people come to PVP over games, this is the last place people would come to build in-game communities.
The only info you will receive here is what you see on the front page of this site. Even worse most won't even have that much info to go on before they jump on one of the sides, to get in on some forum PVP.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
That is why I say convince yourself. It's also the inferred arrogance of a pointer haired manager that comes across when someone tells me to convince them especially when it's about something that is based upon personal likes, dislikes and opinion, not facts.
Opinions are based on information (while not necessarily facts). You cannot form an opinion on something without that information.
I have an opinion about this game based on the information I have collected. I'm also here to collect more information, and so far..I have collected nothing. Whether this is the SWTOR community or not, this is the SWTOR section of MMORPG.com. I should be able to collect some information. But so far, nobody on this forum is willing to give me that. That either means there's something wrong with the people or the game.
So you would base your opinion, in part, on someone else's opinion of the same information you have gathered but only if that opinion is positive.
@OP: lol. Hmmm, let's give it a try:
Pros:
- Open world PvP
- Cinematic questing
- Superb and extensive storytelling (each class 200hrs unique story content + World Quests + world campaigns)
- Enhanced quests a la ME2: quests have different dialogue options, choices have ongoing consequences, interrupt function
- iconic combat (NB: animation is better than a yr ago, but needs to shape up more though)
- Multi-functional companions (embedded in storylines, teamplay helping out etc)
- Bioware polish and quality level
- Bioware seems intent to provide and immerse the players in the feel of the (EU) Star Wars universe, not merely another MMO
- grouping friendly: groups interact in world quests/dialogues and liven it up, Companions make forming groups easier by adding flexibility (no more waiting for a healer or tank to complete your group, just add your friend or guildie that was willing and sort out the gaps in your team via your team's Companions), BW stated to encourage grouping even more in several ways
- Massively large and many worlds to explore
- Organic open world feel: no loading screens at all, seamless transition between open world and instanced areas
- Space minigames is cinematic experience
- Complex crafting (nothing elaborated upon it yet, just BW's stating it)
- Shift away from pure tank/spank/heal
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You cannot guarantee that they're the identical information that I have collected already. Therefore, it is still worthy to collect that information.
Anyone's opinion can be rephrased to get rid of the opinion part and leave only information, simply by getting rid of that "I like" or "I hate" part of it.
So...what is your grunty "opinion" of this game?
I can only speak for myself personally. I haven't exactly formed an opinion of TOR yet. I see positive aspects such as story based progression, seemingly open world design, characters with life in them. Alhough, the cutscenes I've seen, haven't exactly screamed Bioware quality yet. That could be because they're more or less trash convo's (side-quests), I'm not sure though.
Like yourself most are probably still waiting to be sold on TOR, why not try and sell it to us?
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Oops double post..
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
My opinion of this game is that it is not publically available for play even to professional reviewers and thus does not warrant any significant research into whether I like it or not.
Yet.
It doesn't matter that Bioware is developing it. It doesn't matter that it's about Star Wars. What matters, at this time, is that it isn't playable and thus not worth investigating whether I might or might not like it.
I'm really not meaning this in a negative way....
Why should anyone bother to try to "sell" you on playing this game? Are you someone incredibly special? I mean that kiddingly. Seriously though, you know your tastes, what you enjoy, dont enjoy, and so on. It seems like an utter waste of time for another person to try to summarize a game that hasnt been released yet, so you cant go find out for yourself.
A lot of folks have pointed out great features, but do yourself a favor, and go check out some fan or info sites for yourself, and then determine if SWTOR has some features that might appeal to you. It's obvious that SWTOR isnt going to appeal to everyone, so find what you like.
Try out: http://darthhater.com/
Good site to do some digging on, and find out more for yourself.
Good! A lot better than those that's been arguing about the point of the thread and not leaving actual information.
I like more details on how they're shifting away from "pure tank/spank/heal".
Thanks, but I doubt anyone truly knows and understand what they like or hate.
Well, I did found this poll that ask for which feature people like. But the poll really doesn't tell much:
http://swtor.com/community/showthread.php?p=3959107#edit3959107
So far what I've found is that they really emphasize on the story telling..then..why make MMO if you don't emphasize on social?
I think that's a general concern people have with their approach. How will it encourage multiplayer activity? Everything we've learned at any depth has been basically something that will discourage the idea of group activity.
Not to say I believe one way or the other on the idea of a full on open world MMO under the hood. I haven't seen enough to make a judgement in that regard.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Mind you, it's a fluid opinion, based upon the info I've read and seen up till now, so it can change over time, but it's 3 things that gave me the impression that they're either doing variants of Trinity combat gameplay or moving away somewhat from the classic Trinity team combat we know from other MMO's:
- the Companions that are intended to compensate for any lacking role, even if a team has 2 tanks and 2 DPS-types or 1 healer, 2 CC and 1 DPS.
- the hybrid/multitask character of the classes (as seen so far, and as explained in interviews so far)
- the group video I saw that didn't look and feel (to me) as traditional tank/spank/heal trinity.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Spoiler: No point, you're already sold. You entered the event horizon of SW:TOR's black hole a long time ago, or you wouldnt be posting in this forum lol. Prepare to be spaghettified!
Some more:
No vanity gear system / Social clothing tab.
Not a forgiving game: no advanced class respec + you are stuck in your story choice => regrind through hours of same story.
16 classes that are in fact 8=> less skill choices for each + limited weapons + limited gear.
4 (8) force sensitive classes = impossible to create the force user you'd like to
2 factions without ability to switch ever
Only 6 different space ships, none that aren't mobile homes. The space ship chassis is imposed by your class choice.
Probably no planetary housing even instanced.
Pureblood Siths that look like Elves
Sith Inquisitor gear that look like WoW warlock
Consular robes that look like EQ ones.
For SWG Fans: no pure crafter nor entertainer classes.
Default UI not very good and takes lots of screen space.
Companion races and body not customizable
Character body options very limited
I would correct you on how what, 18 of the 20? or so things you said or tried to change around are wrong, but that seems like work.
Just check the site, watch videos, and wait till the game is much closer to release.
Sorry. You failed. Massively.
The OP stated clearly 'sell me SW:TOR', and instead you went on a self satisfactory rant rampage.
So sad, so meagre comprehension skill, so much fail and ignoring the OP
But no worries, I corrected your wrongness in your post by cutting the useless irrelevant parts and lifting your ignorance
Oh, to OP, 1 thing I forgot to mention:
- customisable player spaceship as base of command > player housing in other MMO's
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Please be my guest correct me so I can debunk you
From my fast review and sources I can't quote here I would agree we might have more space ship chassis available, but the rest is pretty much accurate.
How can we sell you that which is not yet sold? The official website is one of the best portals to information about the game.
Cheers!
MMO Vet since AOL Neverwinter Nights circa 1992. My MMO beat up your MMO. =S
I'm not going to requote your whole post, too much!
So I only picked the parts I replied to.
Some things you mentioned are indeed personal preference, nothing much to say about that, tastes differ. About the playing devil's advocate, I can see a point in it, no need to boost a hype and someone's expectations artificially. Still, it's not the OP's request, but that's a side note.
About the player housing, I disagree: I have had player houses in other MMO's, and I didn't do that much with it besides decorating a bit and showing it to friends (although ofc ANet is going to the extreme again w GW2, making a whole player district
with all kinds of Personal Story quests happening there. Those bastards really want me to get addicted). SW:TOR's player ship is far more functional, it's like in ME2 where you start your travels to other planets, decide from there where to go to next or what to do etc. If it's like it was in ME2 but now in a MMO, I can only applaud it.
There are instanced areas everywhere so yo can enjoy your story based content I don't see what that has to do with open world PvP with large persistent open world areas. Sure, you can hide in an instanced room of a hut in an open world area until the 'bad men' have left, in much the same way as you can hide from opponents near guards in other MMO's
I see you agree it's bad now. BTW beause others games have bad ranged combat isn't an excuse. Especially with a blaster. Why accept such a thing in other MMO's and suddenly the same thing not for SW:TOR? That's measuring w 2 standards. Besides that, I think it'll not be the purpose to use blasters at point blank range especially if you're not a tank-type class. Gets you killed fast. Also especially not since each class has both ranged and melee skills (not 100% sure, should need to verify it but this is what I recall).
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
P.S.: switched to white for better readability.
Is this even a serious post? Why would you go to a site that is known for hating a game like SWTOR and as for information on it?
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."