for those worried about 720 secs cooldown on Elite skills, you may have forgotten about ANET's commitment to both balance and fun...
long cooldowns may be at release, but, as GW1 skill balances can attest, this will not be mechanics set in stone
Its also entirely possible that the cooldowns on the elites were intentionally inflated (read: nerfed) in order to preserve cohesive gameplay in a demo that we know was dumbed down. Could you imagine how little there would be to do in the demo if everyone had their elite to use repeatedly--there would be no monsters to kill because they all died too quickly from combo of powerful elites and dumbed-down demo mode.
Hmm Im not so sure about this one. Sure graphics look nice but thats just substance abuse, can't get excited about that. So I've heard drips and drabs on this one for a few months now, some people seem real eager over it too. I'm not gonna be taken by the hype. Watched that first video, wtf was that idiot talking about, big deal you can change the color of a gem on your head! Is that really what gamers want? Christ, have we fallen that far? Perhaps he could tell us something a bit more important! I'm gonna need to see a lot more of this before I can make any decisions because right now its all fluff.
Whats the deal with PvP in this game any way? Are we talking about another PvE game with PvP as an after thought? Will there be world PvP?
Probably need to watch more than just the character creation screen eh?
No, chubby told me all i need to know about all they are showing right now. Not interested in anything other than the PvP aspects.
I'd be looking for open pvp over vast areas, non-instanced, this happens i might stick my head in.
The main thing you guys have to understand is those elites are extremely powerful, they are pretty much your "i'm about to get beat, time to break out the byakughan!" type moves (hopefully you watch naruto so you'll understand what I meant by that reference).
Anyway, elites are not the only powerful skills on your bar. The warrior skill "whirling axe" is not an elite but its a really good skill, using "life force" with the necro isn't an elite but its a bloody powerful skill especially when you summon that shadow minion, using "phoenix" isnt an elite but its a very good skill that also heals you. I think by now you catch my drift and you understand that your bar is not dependent on your elite, your elite may be powerful but there are other skills that are also as powerful as the old elites and that is what makes up the rest of your skill bar.
I think we've seen many videos where the player kills a bunch of mobs without touching his elite and that's because it was just not needed.
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H> An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots! www.stealth-industries.de
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
I'm pretty sure the only reason why people told you to "shut and sit down" is because you made it sound like a bad thing. If that's not the case then I'm sorry for wagging my finger at you.
Its a good type of public quest and the part that we are focusing on.
Mobs that get stronger depending on how many people are attacking it?
Sounds very artificial.
Sounds natural to me, break out the big guns when you are getting out manned...yeap that's how we do it.
No that's not at all what it means.
If it was as you said, mobs would never die except to the maximum number of players they can handle.
When confronted to smaller number of players, they will never use the big guns, and eventually die. So that's totally artificial game mechanics.
Mobs scale with increase number of players:
1. x1 Mob-lvl-5 should be balanced v. x1 Player-lvl-5, where balanced equals a fair challenge to the player, if they are sloppy or do not know what they are doing they will be KO.
2. If x2,3,4 Players all on static mob there will be no challenge. So make the mobs scale with the number of players. All other things being equal.
Sounds perfectly natural system to me. Artificial in this case would be a severe imbalance in challenge that could be exploited by a player(s).
Mobs that get stronger depending on how many people are attacking it?
Sounds very artificial.
Sounds natural to me, break out the big guns when you are getting out manned...yeap that's how we do it.
No that's not at all what it means.
If it was as you said, mobs would never die except to the maximum number of players they can handle.
When confronted to smaller number of players, they will never use the big guns, and eventually die. So that's totally artificial game mechanics.
Ok lets take the mother drake for example; When she's fighting 1-3 people she uses here ability to bite and breathe fire, but when she's facing 5-10 (please note these numbers are for example sake) characters she uses bite, fire breath and tail whip (she does a 360 tail whip that sends everyone around her flying). The strenght of the mob doesn't change, the skills available to them do, so she's still going to be tough to kill depending on how many players stop by to help.
I wil say this the use of terrain tactics is a welcome feature to this MMO who knows i may even pry myself from Eve to give this one ago 6 months after release [assuming it is doing well].
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
No open world PvP. Arenas, battlegrounds and the mists that seems to be a single open area but the last is just a guess, they have not revealed any info about that yet.
Well, they haven't shown it yet, but they did release quite some info about the World vs World PvP in The Mists:
World vs World, WvW,World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team's fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; "maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate." Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.[1]
Players are free to come and go from the battle as they please and there is no limit to the number of players entering. Players enter with a character of any level and use skills they have available to that character. Characters can enter as a sidekick which will allow them to play as a higher level character.
World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
I really do not understand how you came to the conclusion that you were right. You weren't as is obvious from the videos and all the supporting info.
Some events are more static and most of the ones shown in the demo are on the short and simple side for a few very obvious reasons, one of them being that it is a demonstration area and players have very limited time to get to grips with the new mechanics. But even then there are very telling differences between PQs and DEs that are obvious even here, such as scaling (WAR PQs don't scale), movability (WAR PQs don't move around) chaining (WAR's PQs don't chain) triggerability (WAR's PQs are always there) persistent (WAR's PQ outcomes aren't persistent). It's like telling EVE's space combat is just glorified Elite (you know from the C64) or that WoW's combat is just glorified EQ.
So you did told us so. But it isn't so. So what are you on about?
As to the OP. I'm quite impressed with implied dodging, something Anet promised they'll talk about later.. In standard mmo combat you activate a skill and it triggers depending on whether or not it will "connect". It seems that in GW2 the sword or axe swipe will trigger even if your foe is out of range or outside of your cone. This is very very interesting indeed and opens up a whole new layer of "actioness" in combat. Maybe you will be able to really dodge attacks in melee like we're seeing being done in ranged combat? A slight change in down-to-earth mechanics but it might have quite an impact on the feel of combat, especially PvP. Very interesting...
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
I really do not understand how you came to the conclusion that you were right. You weren't as is obvious from the videos and all the supporting info.
Some events are more static and most of the ones shown in the demo are on the short and simple side for a few very obvious reasons, one of them being that it is a demonstration area and players have very limited time to get to grips with the new mechanics. But even then there are very telling differences between PQs and DEs that are obvious even here, such as scaling (WAR PQs don't scale), movability (WAR PQs don't move around) chaining (WAR's PQs don't chain) triggerability (WAR's PQs are always there) persistent (WAR's PQ outcomes aren't persistent). It's like telling EVE's space combat is just glorified Elite (you know from the C64) or that WoW's combat is just glorified EQ.
So you did told us so. But it isn't so. So what are you on about?
Awesome post, because here are some quantified features described: 1 Scaling, 2 Movability, 3 Chaining, 4 Triggerability and 5 Persistence.
Dynamic Events are a step in the right direction, I was sceptical about them, but they are looking good in the demo and reported to be immersive by hands-on impressions from people who went to Gamescon. The ones in the demo are also tutorials, faster triggers and easier for demonstration purposes, it can also be added. Public Quests were a step in the right direction, but they had flaws in not be accessible if population levels were low and the random loot drops too, hmm we can add another one to the above List:
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
Exactly like WAR's PQ's.
lol you're being sarcastic, right?
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
Exactly like WAR's PQ's.
lol you're being sarcastic, right?
No they prolly belong to the group i call NAY sayers, people that are never happy with what they get... nevertheless they are entitled their opinion and if done right its exactly these people that keep games from getting overhyped..
Tough in this case they are so wrong..... Its not exactly like PQ's ... its improved PQ's with random scaling and if they are failed they also trigger a different chain of events... But in the end they are just ... PQ's
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
Exactly like WAR's PQ's.
lol you're being sarcastic, right?
No they prolly belong to the group i call NAY sayers, people that are never happy with what they get... nevertheless they are entitled their opinion and if done right its exactly these people that keep games from getting overhyped..
Tough in this case they are so wrong..... Its not exactly like PQ's ... its improved PQ's with random scaling and if they are failed they also trigger a different chain of events... But in the end they are just ... PQ's
Yeah, and space shuttle is just a "glorified" firecracker if you approach it with a right attitude.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I see the chain of evolution and progress as this:
quest => Public Quest => Dynamic Event
That's pretty accurate.
I know certain people are trying to dumb down DE events as much as possible. I've even seen people say they're nothing more than glorified quests. However, it's clear to see the trend here. DE are basically taking the concept that was first provided by Public Quests, and expanding / improving them to be something much more. I imagine the DE system is something that Mythic would've loved to have had in WAR, but just couldn't pull off.
The emphasis here should be on the word Dynamic. The problem with Public Quests was that they were static. They were also in the same spot, waiting to happen. In a sense they really were just glorified quests. They had the exact same problems as quests, and a lot of times you had quests directing you to them. Once you completed the PQ, it would just reset and you'd do it all over again.
While we know that there will be a certain amount of repetition in the DEs. It looks like they are trying to keep that to a minimum. In addition, the events change dependin on how they are played / how many players participate / how well the players do the event. This is something I never saw out of WAR's PQ system.
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
Exactly like WAR's PQ's.
You sure about that? Exactly? No differences at all? Did War PQ's scale to how many players were there? Did the chains effect other parts of the world? They did that in War right? Right? Because it woud have had to if it would have been exactly like it.
all the people complaining in this thread make me laugh pretty hard.
WTF do you want? this game is vastly superior to every MMO out there in every single way, except pvp which we havent seen. i dont understand where youre coming from, or if youre complaining just for the sake of complaining.
even IF DE's were just PQ's, which they obviously arent as can be seen from the videos, it would rock. look at the combat mechanics...doing anything in gw2 will be fun.
Comments
You can't run and cast in WoW either (except for instant spells).
Its also entirely possible that the cooldowns on the elites were intentionally inflated (read: nerfed) in order to preserve cohesive gameplay in a demo that we know was dumbed down. Could you imagine how little there would be to do in the demo if everyone had their elite to use repeatedly--there would be no monsters to kill because they all died too quickly from combo of powerful elites and dumbed-down demo mode.
I like the "except" part. How many of these instant spells are there in the game ? (50) ?
)) Probably more.
GW2 is the only one I am to buy, FF14 I won't even try and SW:TOR (get a free Beta) will be the dud of the century.
The strategical concept of GW2 has great potential though and preloaded doesn't mean non persistent.
Besides 98% of the people don't have the knowledge how those graphics get there in the first place.
No, chubby told me all i need to know about all they are showing right now. Not interested in anything other than the PvP aspects.
I'd be looking for open pvp over vast areas, non-instanced, this happens i might stick my head in.
The main thing you guys have to understand is those elites are extremely powerful, they are pretty much your "i'm about to get beat, time to break out the byakughan!" type moves (hopefully you watch naruto so you'll understand what I meant by that reference).
Anyway, elites are not the only powerful skills on your bar. The warrior skill "whirling axe" is not an elite but its a really good skill, using "life force" with the necro isn't an elite but its a bloody powerful skill especially when you summon that shadow minion, using "phoenix" isnt an elite but its a very good skill that also heals you. I think by now you catch my drift and you understand that your bar is not dependent on your elite, your elite may be powerful but there are other skills that are also as powerful as the old elites and that is what makes up the rest of your skill bar.
I think we've seen many videos where the player kills a bunch of mobs without touching his elite and that's because it was just not needed.
This is not a game.
Mobs that get stronger depending on how many people are attacking it?
Sounds very artificial.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
Sounds natural to me, break out the big guns when you are getting out manned...yeap that's how we do it.
This is not a game.
i love it how 3 months ago I said these dynamic events will just be highly over glorified public quests and everybody told me to shut up and sit down ...
so yeah... this is me, telling everyone: I told you so!
<S.T.E.A.L.T.H>
An Agency that kicks so much ass it has to be written in all capital letters... divided by dots!
www.stealth-industries.de
No that's not at all what it means.
If it was as you said, mobs would never die except to the maximum number of players they can handle.
When confronted to smaller number of players, they will never use the big guns, and eventually die. So that's totally artificial game mechanics.
An honest review of SW:TOR 6/10 (Danny Wojcicki)
I'm pretty sure the only reason why people told you to "shut and sit down" is because you made it sound like a bad thing. If that's not the case then I'm sorry for wagging my finger at you.
Its a good type of public quest and the part that we are focusing on.
This is not a game.
Mobs scale with increase number of players:
1. x1 Mob-lvl-5 should be balanced v. x1 Player-lvl-5, where balanced equals a fair challenge to the player, if they are sloppy or do not know what they are doing they will be KO.
2. If x2,3,4 Players all on static mob there will be no challenge. So make the mobs scale with the number of players. All other things being equal.
Sounds perfectly natural system to me. Artificial in this case would be a severe imbalance in challenge that could be exploited by a player(s).
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Ok lets take the mother drake for example; When she's fighting 1-3 people she uses here ability to bite and breathe fire, but when she's facing 5-10 (please note these numbers are for example sake) characters she uses bite, fire breath and tail whip (she does a 360 tail whip that sends everyone around her flying). The strenght of the mob doesn't change, the skills available to them do, so she's still going to be tough to kill depending on how many players stop by to help.
This is not a game.
Really loved the vids, thanks for sharing!
Eaglix
I wil say this the use of terrain tactics is a welcome feature to this MMO who knows i may even pry myself from Eve to give this one ago 6 months after release [assuming it is doing well].
Another great example of Moore's Law. Give people access to that much space (developers and users alike) and they'll find uses for it that you can never imagine. "640K ought to be enough for anybody" - Bill Gates 1981
Well, they haven't shown it yet, but they did release quite some info about the World vs World PvP in The Mists:
World vs World, WvW, World PvP or Casual PvP, is a mode of Player versus Player combat which takes place in the Mists. Worlds, or servers, are randomly matched up against two other worlds. Those match-ups will be rotated every week to match worlds against those of similar strength. The combat is open and features many objectives and roles which players can do; "players may decide to fight alone against a supply caravan, join a single group and capture a mine or create a large alliance to assault one of the numerous fortress that could give an advantage in the zone." The battle is on a large scale, where hundreds of people can fight on each side in week-long battles.
Each opposing world starts out with castles, mercenary camps, mines, lumber mills and villages. Separating the starting zones are neutral zones controlled by no one, also containing fortresses, mines, and villages.
The resources gained from mines and lumber mills are used to rebuild walls, create siege engines, and generally defend the team's fortress.
These territories and control points will confer benefits to the world that controls them; "maybe everyone gets increased energy regeneration or healing rate or enhanced loot drop rate." Players can gain experience and level their character in World PvP. Guilds will be able to take and hold keeps.[1]
Players are free to come and go from the battle as they please and there is no limit to the number of players entering. Players enter with a character of any level and use skills they have available to that character. Characters can enter as a sidekick which will allow them to play as a higher level character.
World PvP is intended as a casual form of PvP, designed to be a more relaxed bridging point between PvE and the tactics and pressure of structured PvP. It is hoped that players of any level or PvP experience can participate and be useful.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Couldn't agree more after watching that video on the DE.
Exactly like WAR's PQ's.
I really do not understand how you came to the conclusion that you were right. You weren't as is obvious from the videos and all the supporting info.
Some events are more static and most of the ones shown in the demo are on the short and simple side for a few very obvious reasons, one of them being that it is a demonstration area and players have very limited time to get to grips with the new mechanics. But even then there are very telling differences between PQs and DEs that are obvious even here, such as scaling (WAR PQs don't scale), movability (WAR PQs don't move around) chaining (WAR's PQs don't chain) triggerability (WAR's PQs are always there) persistent (WAR's PQ outcomes aren't persistent). It's like telling EVE's space combat is just glorified Elite (you know from the C64) or that WoW's combat is just glorified EQ.
So you did told us so. But it isn't so. So what are you on about?
As to the OP. I'm quite impressed with implied dodging, something Anet promised they'll talk about later.. In standard mmo combat you activate a skill and it triggers depending on whether or not it will "connect". It seems that in GW2 the sword or axe swipe will trigger even if your foe is out of range or outside of your cone. This is very very interesting indeed and opens up a whole new layer of "actioness" in combat. Maybe you will be able to really dodge attacks in melee like we're seeing being done in ranged combat? A slight change in down-to-earth mechanics but it might have quite an impact on the feel of combat, especially PvP. Very interesting...
Awesome post, because here are some quantified features described: 1 Scaling, 2 Movability, 3 Chaining, 4 Triggerability and 5 Persistence.
Dynamic Events are a step in the right direction, I was sceptical about them, but they are looking good in the demo and reported to be immersive by hands-on impressions from people who went to Gamescon. The ones in the demo are also tutorials, faster triggers and easier for demonstration purposes, it can also be added. Public Quests were a step in the right direction, but they had flaws in not be accessible if population levels were low and the random loot drops too, hmm we can add another one to the above List:
6 Even Rewards.
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
lol you're being sarcastic, right?
"Some people feel the rain. Others just get wet." -Bob Marley
I'm probably one of those people who just get wet.
No they prolly belong to the group i call NAY sayers, people that are never happy with what they get... nevertheless they are entitled their opinion and if done right its exactly these people that keep games from getting overhyped..
Tough in this case they are so wrong..... Its not exactly like PQ's ... its improved PQ's with random scaling and if they are failed they also trigger a different chain of events... But in the end they are just ... PQ's
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Yeah, and space shuttle is just a "glorified" firecracker if you approach it with a right attitude.
I see the chain of evolution and progress as this:
quest => Public Quest => Dynamic Event
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
That's pretty accurate.
I know certain people are trying to dumb down DE events as much as possible. I've even seen people say they're nothing more than glorified quests. However, it's clear to see the trend here. DE are basically taking the concept that was first provided by Public Quests, and expanding / improving them to be something much more. I imagine the DE system is something that Mythic would've loved to have had in WAR, but just couldn't pull off.
The emphasis here should be on the word Dynamic. The problem with Public Quests was that they were static. They were also in the same spot, waiting to happen. In a sense they really were just glorified quests. They had the exact same problems as quests, and a lot of times you had quests directing you to them. Once you completed the PQ, it would just reset and you'd do it all over again.
While we know that there will be a certain amount of repetition in the DEs. It looks like they are trying to keep that to a minimum. In addition, the events change dependin on how they are played / how many players participate / how well the players do the event. This is something I never saw out of WAR's PQ system.
You sure about that? Exactly? No differences at all? Did War PQ's scale to how many players were there? Did the chains effect other parts of the world? They did that in War right? Right? Because it woud have had to if it would have been exactly like it.
all the people complaining in this thread make me laugh pretty hard.
WTF do you want? this game is vastly superior to every MMO out there in every single way, except pvp which we havent seen. i dont understand where youre coming from, or if youre complaining just for the sake of complaining.
even IF DE's were just PQ's, which they obviously arent as can be seen from the videos, it would rock. look at the combat mechanics...doing anything in gw2 will be fun.