I don't know why people would list warhammer as a failure, the game reached 800,000 subs in its peak, that's really big. Today it's still at about 300,000, most other MMOs dream about that kind of number.
I've been playing the trial, and it seems like a pretty solid game, and damn it sure is more engaging right now that world of do one raid over and over craft. It's not nearly as bad as others that have come (and it's not even worth being called bad).
Want an MMO that failed super hardcore? Vanguard. That game was so hyped up, and it crashed and burned so hard, people stopped talking about it within a month or two.
I am pretty sure the sub number is way less than 300k, The reason the trial seems so full is that it is unlimited and anyone can play...go past Rank ten and you will find the game is much less active.
More to the point as you move into T4 even the gameplay changes as you enter the realm of the CC/AoE debacle.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
NGE in terms of taking a successful game and ruining it, also in terms of ruining the image of a company.
TR in general terms.
WAR in terms of ruining the potential of an excellent IP.
Overall winner (or failure depends how you look at it) is STO, for reasons see one of the 1000 or so threads on the subject (which is incidentally probably higher then the current number of active subs in the game lol).
I'd say LotRO was a much bigger flop in terms of ruining a good IP. Lord of the Rings is arguably the biggest fantasy IP. Its the Star Wars of fantasy. Turbine was riding the popularity wave after the movies, but kept delaying Middle Earth Online to the point where many lost interest. Then they restructured the entire game to be a linear WoW clone, and thus, lost almost all their loyal followers.
As for other huge flops, Asheron's Call 2 immediately comes to mind.
Age of Conan was a huge flop as well.
This has already been discussed to death on the official lotro forum, a 100% lore abiding mmorpg based on LOTR would not work.
Worked just fine in alpha while I was playing. In fact, the number of people following Middle Earth Online easily dwarfs LotRO's current subs. And no one said 100%, but holy hell they could get a lot closer (and they did, in alpha) than they are now.
SWG was not successful before the NGE.
SoE and LA were expecting to push 1 million subs with this. They ended up with at the time of the NGE about 200k (this is the number that was thrown around back in 2005), and shrinking.
People talk about SWG being this great game now, but at the time it was considered an immensely flawed game with potential. The skill balance was beyond abysmal at launch. The Jedi unlock procedure was stupid and for most people as tedious chore.
SoE was working on things, but the sub numbers still dropped.
No one knows what really happened at this point. Lucas Arts quite possibly forced SoEs hands with the NGE, but well never know for sure.
Had LA allowed SoE another 6 months of development before the original launch things might have been different. But SWG bled too many people too fast, before the NGE.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
Worked just fine in alpha while I was playing. In fact, the number of people following Middle Earth Online easily dwarfs LotRO's current subs. And no one said 100%, but holy hell they could get a lot closer (and they did, in alpha) than they are now.
Agreed, a game with the probably best lore of any MMOs should have more subs but I still wouldn't call it a great failure for that. The game is still going pretty strong after years.
The same goes for AoC and WAR, both those have also great lore but few players.
Worked just fine in alpha while I was playing. In fact, the number of people following Middle Earth Online easily dwarfs LotRO's current subs. And no one said 100%, but holy hell they could get a lot closer (and they did, in alpha) than they are now.
Agreed, a game with the probably best lore of any MMOs should have more subs but I still wouldn't call it a great failure for that. The game is still going pretty strong after years.
The same goes for AoC and WAR, both those have also great lore but few players.
True, it's still pulling along, though now its being switched to FTP. But it should be huge. It should have been the biggest MMO around.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
200k is a big number there lol. Granted not wow good but wow is an exception.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
That was long long after it had launched. It was initially a big success. Many games die off over time. Also, 200k was probably the second highest sub rate at the time.
Originally posted by FreddyNoNose I wish people would stop being liars about SWG being a winner. It wasn't. Sure it had a vocal group of supporters but NGE was trying to "fix" the game to stop it from bleeding subs. They keep the lie going and will never shut up about it.
This is very very true. They were bleeding subs because of the CU massively screwing crap up... then they did the NGE which made the CU look trivial and *downward spiral*
Originally posted by MMOExposed but really people, is war that much worst than Vanguard when it came out? Just give it some time
War was a fun game, the problem is there is no reason to play it. It's reskinned wow with a pvp focus and 1-2 classes of interest (witchhunter yay.) You could do better in a half dozen other games.
Hopefully they learned their lesson and innovate and make a real game and not a half ass rip off.
Edit2: The thing to note also is games run on a curve subscriber wise (or even peak users), _,.o^o.,_ wow has started it's downward trend, it's still gonna be the big dog for a few years but something else IS going to take its place... and sooner than later (and bliz knows this too you can bet they have something lined up to pick up the people who jump ship. Bliz is a very very smart company)
Edit3: Don't get me wrong, you will see a jump of subs with cataclysm as old players return and new players start up fresh, but they've neared or hit their peak already +/-1m and once you do you can level out for a it but you will eventually slide down.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
That was long long after it had launched. It was initially a big success. Many games die off over time. Also, 200k was probably the second highest sub rate at the time.
2 years is not a 'long long' time. The game launched mid 2003. Sure, a lot of people tried it out (though nowhere near as many people that tried out WAR), but most of those left.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
That was long long after it had launched. It was initially a big success. Many games die off over time. Also, 200k was probably the second highest sub rate at the time.
2 years is not a 'long long' time. The game launched mid 2003. Sure, a lot of people tried it out (though nowhere near as many people that tried out WAR), but most of those left.
SWG didn't die because of the Pre CU system.
It died because;
- Required a monster rig for the time
- Too many bugs
- No content
- Didn't feel like Star Wars
Pre CU was spot on but instead of adding content, fixing bugs and adding Star Wars. They decided to do nothing but add bugs, add poor content and then screw over the player base.
People got fed up and left the game way before the NGE, which was just the final nail in the coffin.
Originally posted by pepcfreak Originally posted by teakbois
Originally posted by Garvon3
Originally posted by teakbois SWG was not successful before the NGE.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse. No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations. 200k is a big number there lol. Granted not wow good but wow is an exception.
200K is a mediocre number. Many games have had more than 200K. When you're paying for a Star Wars license, you don't settle for mediocre numbers.
Originally posted by Miffy Ultima Online - Trammel
Always see this from the PvP FFA fanatics, but, in fact, it's not true. UO was losing subs hand over fist to EQ *before* Trammel; that's why Trammel was implemented. Subs actually picked up a little after Trammel.
Causes of the spectacular failures will vary from game to game, but here are the most notable failures from a subscriptions point of view (showing promise initially, then dropping quickly):
Warhammer Online - got up to about 800,00 subscriptions in the first few months, then dropped to 300,000 a couple of months later...currently running under 100,000 (and decaying)
Age of Conan - got up to about 700,000 subscriptions in the first month, then immediately dropped to 100,000 within the following 2 months...currently running a little over 100,00 (but trending up slightly)
Vanguard - got up a little over 100,00 subscriptions in the few months, dropped below 40,000 a few months later (then stopped reporting numbers)
Tabula Rasa - got up to about 125,000 subscriptions in the first few months, dropped to 75,000 subscriptions a few months later (and finally put out of it's misery a bit over a 1 year after launch)
Star Trek Online - got up a bit over 100,000 subscriptions in the first month, dropped below 60,000 subscriptions a few months later
Biggest MMORPG flops and failures? I wouldn't know. I research a game before I buy it, including reading player comments about them, irregardless of how biased the commentator, they usually are, those comments are still pretty accurate.
For the last 5 years i've only played WOW for 3 months, and a few free-trials, i'm still waiting for a Pre-CU SWG replacement.
I think to date the biggest failure is The Sims Online.
It is said to have been funded with over 100 million dollars (more if including the new division it started up with a reported 300 million) and ended up closing a number of years later, but it never did very well.
Considering the budget, the biggest software developer in the world (at the time) was behind it and based on the most popular pc game title in history I think that pretty much makes it the biggest failure.
In terms of player expectations though, there are many more games that surpass The Sims failures. Most have already been listed.
I remember an MMO on this site's list (haven't checked if it's still there) called Ogre Island. It was the most pathetic piece of crap I've ever seen. The graphics were drawn in MS Paint, I swear. It had like a 3.0 rating here and probably worse elsewhere. If it's not closed by now, I'd be extremely surprised.
As for games that people have actually heard about, Tabula Rasa.
I think the fastest closure I can remember was Auto Assault.... though Tabula Rasa was pretty quick to close. I'd also have to say Dungeon Runners and Exteel, also by NCSoft (go figure) were shut down rather quickly as soon as they became less popular.
I guess NCSoft isn't in the business of fixing games or trying to make them playable in the future. Its either hit or miss with those guys.
Apart from that MxO (the matrix online) I think was a flop that really had some great potential. They had some very complex game mechanics, and a really great open world system, as well as some dynamic features we haven't seen since then... but the playability in the beginning was terrible and whether or not they ever had the chance to fix it, I'll never know.
Always see this from the PvP FFA fanatics, but, in fact, it's not true. UO was losing subs hand over fist to EQ *before* Trammel; that's why Trammel was implemented. Subs actually picked up a little after Trammel.
^^ This
I was there through it all...still am. Me and my 47 million in bank notes...
It died because; - Required a monster rig for the time - Too many bugs - No content - Didn't feel like Star Wars
Pre CU was spot on but instead of adding content, fixing bugs and adding Star Wars. They decided to do nothing but add bugs, add poor content and then screw over the player base. People got fed up and left the game way before the NGE, which was just the final nail in the coffin.
Well the other problem was the ridiculous imbalance the game had. There were a couple of god like classes which rendered the rest of the dps classes insignificant. The whole hologrind thing was a major issue too.
The class system looks great on paper and was fun to play around with, however they couldnt develop the game around it at all. If SoE really wants to make big waves in the MMO world take that sandbox system and figure out how to build a rich game around it. Sandbox will always be 'niche', but if they accept that they likely wont get more than 500k subs and dont try to then it might just work.
Comments
More to the point as you move into T4 even the gameplay changes as you enter the realm of the CC/AoE debacle.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Worked just fine in alpha while I was playing. In fact, the number of people following Middle Earth Online easily dwarfs LotRO's current subs. And no one said 100%, but holy hell they could get a lot closer (and they did, in alpha) than they are now.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
Agreed, a game with the probably best lore of any MMOs should have more subs but I still wouldn't call it a great failure for that. The game is still going pretty strong after years.
The same goes for AoC and WAR, both those have also great lore but few players.
True, it's still pulling along, though now its being switched to FTP. But it should be huge. It should have been the biggest MMO around.
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.200k is a big number there lol. Granted not wow good but wow is an exception.
That was long long after it had launched. It was initially a big success. Many games die off over time. Also, 200k was probably the second highest sub rate at the time.
but really people, is war that much worst than Vanguard when it came out? Just give it some time
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
This is very very true. They were bleeding subs because of the CU massively screwing crap up... then they did the NGE which made the CU look trivial and *downward spiral*
Shadus
War was a fun game, the problem is there is no reason to play it. It's reskinned wow with a pvp focus and 1-2 classes of interest (witchhunter yay.) You could do better in a half dozen other games.
Hopefully they learned their lesson and innovate and make a real game and not a half ass rip off.
Edit: There's decent data at [url]http://www.mmodata.net/[url] that is currently on mmo sub numbers.
Edit2: The thing to note also is games run on a curve subscriber wise (or even peak users), _,.o^o.,_ wow has started it's downward trend, it's still gonna be the big dog for a few years but something else IS going to take its place... and sooner than later (and bliz knows this too you can bet they have something lined up to pick up the people who jump ship. Bliz is a very very smart company)
Edit3: Don't get me wrong, you will see a jump of subs with cataclysm as old players return and new players start up fresh, but they've neared or hit their peak already +/-1m and once you do you can level out for a it but you will eventually slide down.
Shadus
Yes, yes it was. It was a huge success. It had a HORRIBLE launch but the brand name pulled it through. The subs started dipping around 2004 or 5, so they tried the NGE and just made the whole thing collapse.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.That was long long after it had launched. It was initially a big success. Many games die off over time. Also, 200k was probably the second highest sub rate at the time.
2 years is not a 'long long' time. The game launched mid 2003. Sure, a lot of people tried it out (though nowhere near as many people that tried out WAR), but most of those left.Star Wars Galaxies - Jedi, Publish 9, JTLS, CU, NGE etc etc.
Planetside - Core Combat expansion, BFRs etc etc
Everquest - Everything since Luclin and PoP
Everquest 2
WoW - TBC onwards
Horizons
Dark and Light
Darkfall
Lord of The Rings Online
Vanguard
The Matrix Online
Pirates of the Burning Sea
Dark Age of Camelot - ToA
Ultima Online - Trammel
WAR
AoC
Infact pretty much every MMO because they've either been ruined or are just shit.
SWG didn't die because of the Pre CU system.
It died because;
- Required a monster rig for the time
- Too many bugs
- No content
- Didn't feel like Star Wars
Pre CU was spot on but instead of adding content, fixing bugs and adding Star Wars. They decided to do nothing but add bugs, add poor content and then screw over the player base.
People got fed up and left the game way before the NGE, which was just the final nail in the coffin.
No, it was not. The *game* itself may have been improving, but the sub numbers were *not*. Again, the number being thrown around at the time of the NGE was 200k. That is FAR less than expectations.
200k is a big number there lol. Granted not wow good but wow is an exception.
200K is a mediocre number. Many games have had more than 200K. When you're paying for a Star Wars license, you don't settle for mediocre numbers.
SWG was losign 10,000 subs a month to WoW.
.
Sony panicked and implemented the NGE
Well shave my back and call me an elf! -- Oghren
Always see this from the PvP FFA fanatics, but, in fact, it's not true. UO was losing subs hand over fist to EQ *before* Trammel; that's why Trammel was implemented. Subs actually picked up a little after Trammel.
Causes of the spectacular failures will vary from game to game, but here are the most notable failures from a subscriptions point of view (showing promise initially, then dropping quickly):
Warhammer Online - got up to about 800,00 subscriptions in the first few months, then dropped to 300,000 a couple of months later...currently running under 100,000 (and decaying)
Age of Conan - got up to about 700,000 subscriptions in the first month, then immediately dropped to 100,000 within the following 2 months...currently running a little over 100,00 (but trending up slightly)
Vanguard - got up a little over 100,00 subscriptions in the few months, dropped below 40,000 a few months later (then stopped reporting numbers)
Tabula Rasa - got up to about 125,000 subscriptions in the first few months, dropped to 75,000 subscriptions a few months later (and finally put out of it's misery a bit over a 1 year after launch)
Star Trek Online - got up a bit over 100,000 subscriptions in the first month, dropped below 60,000 subscriptions a few months later
Biggest MMORPG flops and failures? I wouldn't know. I research a game before I buy it, including reading player comments about them, irregardless of how biased the commentator, they usually are, those comments are still pretty accurate.
For the last 5 years i've only played WOW for 3 months, and a few free-trials, i'm still waiting for a Pre-CU SWG replacement.
I think to date the biggest failure is The Sims Online.
It is said to have been funded with over 100 million dollars (more if including the new division it started up with a reported 300 million) and ended up closing a number of years later, but it never did very well.
Considering the budget, the biggest software developer in the world (at the time) was behind it and based on the most popular pc game title in history I think that pretty much makes it the biggest failure.
In terms of player expectations though, there are many more games that surpass The Sims failures. Most have already been listed.
I remember an MMO on this site's list (haven't checked if it's still there) called Ogre Island. It was the most pathetic piece of crap I've ever seen. The graphics were drawn in MS Paint, I swear. It had like a 3.0 rating here and probably worse elsewhere. If it's not closed by now, I'd be extremely surprised.
As for games that people have actually heard about, Tabula Rasa.
I think the fastest closure I can remember was Auto Assault.... though Tabula Rasa was pretty quick to close. I'd also have to say Dungeon Runners and Exteel, also by NCSoft (go figure) were shut down rather quickly as soon as they became less popular.
I guess NCSoft isn't in the business of fixing games or trying to make them playable in the future. Its either hit or miss with those guys.
Apart from that MxO (the matrix online) I think was a flop that really had some great potential. They had some very complex game mechanics, and a really great open world system, as well as some dynamic features we haven't seen since then... but the playability in the beginning was terrible and whether or not they ever had the chance to fix it, I'll never know.
^^ This
I was there through it all...still am. Me and my 47 million in bank notes...
Well the other problem was the ridiculous imbalance the game had. There were a couple of god like classes which rendered the rest of the dps classes insignificant. The whole hologrind thing was a major issue too. The class system looks great on paper and was fun to play around with, however they couldnt develop the game around it at all. If SoE really wants to make big waves in the MMO world take that sandbox system and figure out how to build a rich game around it. Sandbox will always be 'niche', but if they accept that they likely wont get more than 500k subs and dont try to then it might just work.