Howdy, Stranger!
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Quick Links
General: Four Immediate Thoughts on Cryptics Neverwinter
This discussion has been closed.
It looks like you're new here. If you want to get involved, click one of these buttons!
Comments
"I may be alone in thinking this, but if you take away the subscriptions from STO and CO and instead think of them as co-op online games, they start to look a whole lot more attractive."
Shut up you mad person.
http://www.themmoquest.com - MMO commentary from an overly angry brit. OFFICIALLY LAUNCHED!
So this game won't have official servers, just people connecting to online games amongst eachother? Like the first two NWNs? I always that that's what made a game an MMO, and thus possibly worthy of subscription - the official servers. Not that nuances of gameplay, and how instanced it is, and all that.
When I want a single-player story, I'll play a single-player game. When I play an MMO, I want a massively multiplayer world.
I for one hope that it brilliant .. and all these " I'll never buy another Cryptic Game ever " people will have to eat their words .. and yes they are hating on it already .. very sad .
Add this to the fact that Jack and company are shifting their focus from being a studio that develops only MMOs toward more of an “Online RPG” developer and there’s reason to be cautiously optimistic.
Feel free to clue us in on your reasoning behind being cautiously optimistic, besides "hope and change".
I'm with you on the entire list up until number one because I have no faith in Cryptic, after two failed launches and because of how those launches failed I don't see anything that suggests they couldn't do the same thing again. Which is release game that is no more fun than Mafia Wars or Farmville and expect us to pay for the game, pay a monthly sub for the game, and then buy other stuff out of the C-Store (wich ironically STO would still be highly content light even with all the c store junk in game for free).
In ways I think Cryptic is just taking the business model of rabid fanboism to new levels with this design, it is something we practically have to do with our friends and it is supposed to be like a true online version of D&D. Can you imagine how the mouths at Cryptic are watering thinking that they can easily scam the public out of hundreds of dollars per party for lame barely playable missions that once bugged the response will be "hmmm well leave out and start all over again!" as if it was that much fun the first run through.
Fool me once shame on you fool me twice shame on me until Cryptic isn't using cash shops I won't be subscribing to them and not because I have something against cash shops either, it's because they have shown that they are far too eager to use them in less than honorable ways and just apologizing for it later. That bridge they have burned with me.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
At first I was thinking there are two big red flags.
Cryptic's most release history.
and
The very short development time, and/or resources commited to its development.
Champs and Trek both had short development times and had similar complaints from the community after release.
Then I considered what people might think if CO or STO were single player games with multiplayer options without the subscription fee. Go from a shallow overpriced MMO to a robust OMG with free multiplayer. That is assuming it will be free.
Just because they're using the 4th edition rules does not mean they will be using the exact 4th edition setting. Neverwinter Nights from the PNP perspective is a "module." In a D&D module, the DM picks a place and time in an existing campaign setting, or creates his own. Every aspect of any campaign setting or module is merely a suggestion for the dungeon master. There is no reason they cannot use the 4th edition rules, and then pick some point in history when Edition 3.5, 3.0 or even 2nd Edition were in use. The rule set has nothing to do with campaign setting.
Nope I will not buy another Cryptic game even if it is the best and only game available. I have said that when they fooled me with STO and yes I was very cautious not to judge before I play then. They robbed me with their marketing and lies too many times.
You're far too optimistic.
Going by Cryptic's past, what I expect is:
a.) Shallow story. Just look at Star Trek Online. They have this massive IP with a past of great characters and good story and they somehow birth STO from it. It's foolish to expect anything else from the same company.
b.) They'll charge for everything. Big deal that it's not a "MMO". If "OMG" doesn't scream "PR", then I don't know what does. I would not be surprised to come across a chest with a gold-colored item flagged with text, "1,000 points to gain access to this item. Recharge now!"
b2.) They're releasing with only the most basic classes. They WILL charge for anything else. You can count on it.
c.) Highly repetitive, monotonous game play.
c2.) Unfinished and uninspired, with the game described in reviews as "tries to do {THIS} that other games in the series have already done better."
d.) A price tag on accessing player made maps. I'm not sure how this will be implemented but I fully expect it to happen. Not on the maps themselves, of course, but on access to the map database, or a limited access to the maps with a charge for full access, or a charge to upload the maps to the server. I fully expect one (or some) of these to happen.
As far as I'm concerned some or all of the items here will happen, with points A and C practically a given. I'll fall over and do cart wheels if I'm wrong.
Look I'm no huge fan of Cryptic either ... but if this game is good all you'll be doing is cutting your nose to spite your face. And if it is a really good game ,you will probably play it you just dont know it yet.
... its Cryptic and its releasing next year... er.. in what way can we draw any hope from those 2 things.. one has a reputation for increasingly bad MMO implementation, and the second is an indication of a 'rushed' product.. with the best will in the world, in what way can this be viewed with any degree of positivity...
Not going to buy it. I love the Forgotten Realms, but I hate Cryptic after CO and STO. I also do not like 4e. It's really a shame that Hasbro/WoTC never gave the D&D license to a real developer. It could have been a huge money maker, but no one has ever done it justice besides Bioware.
Ummm, Bill, where is thought #5?
Anyway, here are my thoughts on your four thoughts...
4.) DOOOOOOOM!
#4 - Use that Delorean to go back and stop Cryptic before they could ruin CO & STO and make sure that someone got them who would do them justice. Then see to it that Neverwinter Nights is given to Bioware, Turbine (with reservations), or anyone who knows how to make an online game.
3.) Holy crap, we’re gonna pay for everything…
#3 - Yep. Besides the monthly subscription (and probably a Lifetime option), not only will they charge for "new character slots, for access to different races, and of course for re-rolling our character’s stats" but also for the missing classes, special powers/class abilities, 'boons', 'healing surges', paragon paths and epic destinies, UCG, special areas, and anything else Cryptic thinks they can get away with (which is just about everything).
2.) Wait… What the hell is an OMG?
#2 - An OMG is a typical reaction someone has when they realize that one of their favorite IPs is about to be raped by a known IP molester, usually followed by NOOOOOOO! Cryptic & Jack Emmert are using the term (knowing full well its true meaning but using it tongue-in-cheek) in an attempt to disguise their current IP victim, errr, target, umm, RPG, oh hell, game, so that when it is released too soon with shallow content, boring PvE, terrible combat mechanics, and no real resemblance to the original IP, they can respond to the player outcry with, "we told you that it wasn't an MMO nor an RPG but an experimental new genre called an OMG." They are also hoping that by using the term OMG instead of MMO that no lawsuits will follow.
1.) Could this actually work?
#1 - No. Well, in all likelihood, taking their recent history into account, probably not (with a large emphasis on NOT). They are taking the same approach to Neverwinter that they used with STO... Place the game setting far enough into the future that the world looks nothing like the original IP, thus allowing them to do anything they want while using a shallow skin of that IP. Then throw in the watered-down v4e D&D ruleset and they don't even have to work very hard to set up the mechanics.
As for them 'looking in the mirrow'... after CO, they still destroyed STO. Why would they change now? They will probably charge a monthly subscription and collect lifetime subs along with a store, then when the subs begin to dry up (which shouldn't take long), switch to a hybrid F2P, and I can almost guarantee that player created content WILL be charged for since in order to play them, you will need to be on their servers. That's just the way Cryptic operates.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
I notice many comments here start with "i'm a huge fan of this IP" or something to that effect. isn't that what cryptic is counting on? I mean the only way STO made money is from the fans. Looking back now at the initial game reviews / comments / dev articles etc... on the STO launch, I would never have tried it if I had not been "a fan" of it.
that being said, are developers (I mean lazy ones like cryptic) just grabbing up "popular" liscenses and turning out a passable game to make a buck? If so, how do we as the consumers stop this or CAN we stop it? ...or should we? If we stop this, will we miss out on the most awesome game of D&D ever? or of Star Trek ...or any other liscense material game. I guess what i'm trying to ask is, would a Star Trek based MMO exisist if it weren't for cryptic or studios like them.
I think about this now because I'm looking back and noticing that the best MMOs, by far, are little known or fringe liscenses. (WoW, EQ, etc...) I mean Warcraft a popular game sure, but not a well known TV show ...or even a long (very long) running pen and paper rpg that basically started it all. I say all this in hopes to somehow make the point....I love MMOs. I think MMOs are the future of gaming and I don't want to miss out on a diamond in the rough, so to speak, because it seems as though only lazy developers will touch the "big" liscenses.
The biggest problem with the popular licenses is that to do them justice, a lot of time and effort has to be invested to stay as true as possible to the 'lore' of the IP but by doing so, the scope of creativity and 'free license' is limited. The closest anyone has come IMO is LOTRO in its early days but even Turbine finally caved and began straying further and further in order to bring in the casual gamer - the masses - instead of just the IP's fans. That is why games like STO come into existance... instead of following the IP closely which would have a limited audience (even Star Trek has a finite set of fans), the companies use the IP's popularity for that initial influx of money by putting together a vanilla game with the IP's graphics and naming conventions and little else. It is quick profit with no long term goals, and no dedication and ferver on the part of the developer.
There is no way to stop it short of a complete boycott on all popular IP games which would be next to impossible to pull off, so debating whether we should or should not stop it is a moot point. Until a developer comes along with a passion for a particular IP, a vision for innovation, and a solid connection to the pulse of the players, we will be stuck with these shoddy, half-finished, miserable excuses for a game/MMO which are being pushed down our throats on a continual basis.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
I understand this completely. But, if we could somehow stop jumping on that bandwagon and deny these developers that intial cash boost from a launch, maybe that could at least let these devs know that they have to produce something worth while. My big problem is this: developer(a) buys IP(b) and makes development investment(c) then rakes in cash(x). I mean - they have a formula for this that works really well apparently. a+b+c=x where x is always greater than the sum of (a) (b) and (c). I guess you could write it a+b+c<x. THAT is what frustrates me the most.
as for "jumping on the bandwagon" ...yeh I'm guilty of that too. I admit. I guess that's really what's got me all in a tizzy here. I'm ashamed that I'm contributing to this. I want to do something about it.
Cryptic ....please make the effort, because "I am a big fan of NWN and Forgotten Realms!"
i can already see the copy/paste process of models and rehashing of "comic" style animations that has the Cryptic stamp on it.
Atleast we know exactly what we gonna get...
Nope.
I'm not here to complete my forum PVP dailies.
" Add this to the fact that Jack and company are shifting their focus from being a studio that develops only MMOs toward more of an “Online RPG” developer and there’s reason to be cautiously optimistic"
I don't have any optimism in light of this point, in fact I would say the only reason they are moving away from making actual MMO's is because they suck at it. I have a tons of doubt about their ability to not fuck up NWN. Frankly I would wager htey will call it free to play and attach a huge C-Store to it.
I like NWM so I hope the OMG NWM online will be a good one.In fact the MMOG market is giving way rapidly to social games very soon it will shred its first "M" as it can't be called "massive" by any mean. OMG may very well be the new reference to not only games like Diablo, Torchlight online and NWM online but also to ALL games currently dubbed MMORPGs.
The answer to why Cryptic is really quite simple.
They can turn out an MMO at a fraction of the cost in time and money.
This means they turn a profit just on box sales. Add in the sub + cash shop model, and they can continue to make money on the game with a much lower population base than with just a sub model. Shifting the majority of the development team to another project also significantly lowers the overhead of the game post launch.
Of course, none of these things are good from the players point of view.
Any fool can criticize, condemn and complain and most fools do.
Benjamin Franklin
There is only one thought that needs to be kept in mind:
Cartoony
I dont like WoW because to me its a pi$$-take out of D&D with its bright blue dragons, oversized eyes, armor and move rip-offs.
Neverwinter is an atmospheric, detailed and quality IP that provokes emotion, suspense and intrigue.... that would not suit Crpytics "lets make everything rounded and brightly coloured" attitude.
I dont normally like to pre-judge things, but at this point in time I can say with confidence that I wont be interested in this bastardisation at all.
Who cares about them? The ones who are subscribing are secured revenue. Screw 'em (shorter jack emmert)
RELAX!@!! BREATHE!!!
Because other developers, like BioWare, Obsidian, etc. don't want to touch that IP (or rather any WotC-licensed IP) with a long pole.
Anyone that booght STO is fully justified in either not buying another Cryptic game again, or, at best, waiting until the game has been long released and reviewed before possibly giving NWN a shot.
Cryptic botched STO that badly. And people are pissed. Twice as much if they bought the hype and laid down the cash for a lifetime sub.
Emmert calling his company the "New Cryptic" is only so much cynical spin.