Problem is that this system was leagues better than the current cumbersome and bulky retainer system implemented in FFXIV. Fixing the lag will do wonders, but it still has a way to go before it becomes a feature people are going to actually want to use.
In EQ I could go to Eastern Commonlands and generally find the item I want. It was also obvious what the prices of items were on that server rather than having to go through each retainer - usually loaded with junk items - one by one I could do price comparisons based on the current shouts. It became obvious if you were asking too much for an item that was common, and you'd have to lower your price accordingly. The way the system is currently setup it could take hours sorting through all the retainers trying to find the item you wanted (in EQ you'd know within a couple minutes if the item in EC tunnels was up for sale or not) and it will be even worse if you are doing any sort of price comparison. I could also interact specifically with the trader and haggle prices, which you cannot do with the current retainer system.
Shouts don't seem to carry as far in FFXIV and also shouting is generally looked down upon by Japanese players, so you can't really make due with the same system, though you can shout in cities and I'd imagine that will be one of the major ways to sell items - but a lot of people in cities aren't going to tolerate that sort of spam (it was okay in EC, as that wasn't a town and rather more of a trading hub, plus there were specific channels).
Currently the best way I've found to sell items is to make your character a walking bazaar and idle in areas where your items will likely come in handy. For instance selling shards for crafters idling in the NPC market ward usually nets great profit within a couple of hours. Selling weapons and armor by the weapon vendors or aethyrte crystals is another good way to sell items.
SE is eventually going to give in and put up a search feature for retainers which will make the system sort of like the bazaar was in EQ (only with the annoyance of having to switch instances), but they already said they want to see how this retainer system works without a search feature after release anyway before they add one, even though nearly every feedback associated with the retainers is how it's not going to work in it's current implementation. Until then I'd suggest using a shout or idle player bazaar method to sell goods.
Everything you have said, I agree with wholeheartedly.
I would also like to add a bit on the topic of "controlling a market". Do any of you understand the biggest factor that allows someone to temporarily play the market and make some money? Every person on the whole server has the potential to acquire any item that can be sold. If you want something, why not get it or make it yourself instead of buying it? Because of convenience. Because going through the process of getting that thing yourself isn't worth as much to you as the gil in your pocket. Because Time is Money. I will gladly buy your apple pie, sir, rather than take time away from my crafting, questing, roleplaying, or grinding to go apple picking on my own. It's not a matter of instant gratification, it's a matter of priority.
The more inconvenient it is to engage in buying and selling, the more time you have to spend just to buy the things you need and sell the things you don't need. The more time you are required to spend, the more money people will be willing to spend in order to avoid it. The MORE you go away from a simple buyer-friendly system, the MORE you hurt people who don't want to spend a long time pricewatching and the MORE you benefit people who are willing to spend a long time pricewatching. Who is willing to spend the most time on that, you ask? Why, the people who want to play the market of course! Removing convenience benefits the people who have the knowledge and the will to play with supply and demand to make a profit. Period. If that's what you're against, then you should be clamoring for a central auction house.
In my opinion the AH in most MMO's actually hurts the "community" aspect of the game. It doesn't promote social interaction. I can remember playing Ultima Online and going into Britian and comming across a virtual swap meet at the bank. Anything and everything a player might need could be purchased, from other players. There was so much social interaction going on, it gave the game a real feeling of community that I've not seen in any MMO since. It would be a refreshing return for a game to do away with an overpriced AH in favor of player to player, face to face (or toon to toon) commerce. Immagine a Massively Multiplayer Online game in which players dealt with one another for reasons other than needing bodies to fill a group or raid.
In my opinion the AH in most MMO's actually hurts the "community" aspect of the game. It doesn't promote social interaction. I can remember playing Ultima Online and going into Britian and comming across a virtual swap meet at the bank. Anything and everything a player might need could be purchased, from other players. There was so much social interaction going on, it gave the game a real feeling of community that I've not seen in any MMO since. It would be a refreshing return for a game to do away with an overpriced AH in favor of player to player, face to face (or toon to toon) commerce. Immagine a Massively Multiplayer Online game in which players dealt with one another for reasons other than needing bodies to fill a group or raid.
Everything you have said, I agree with wholeheartedly.
I would also like to add a bit on the topic of "controlling a market". Do any of you understand the biggest factor that allows someone to temporarily play the market and make some money? Every person on the whole server has the potential to acquire any item that can be sold. If you want something, why not get it or make it yourself instead of buying it? Because of convenience. Because going through the process of getting that thing yourself isn't worth as much to you as the gil in your pocket. Because Time is Money. I will gladly buy your apple pie, sir, rather than take time away from my crafting, questing, roleplaying, or grinding to go apple picking on my own. It's not a matter of instant gratification, it's a matter of priority.
The more inconvenient it is to engage in buying and selling, the more time you have to spend just to buy the things you need and sell the things you don't need. The more time you are required to spend, the more money people will be willing to spend in order to avoid it. The MORE you go away from a simple buyer-friendly system, the MORE you hurt people who don't want to spend a long time pricewatching and the MORE you benefit people who are willing to spend a long time pricewatching. Who is willing to spend the most time on that, you ask? Why, the people who want to play the market of course! Removing convenience benefits the people who have the knowledge and the will to play with supply and demand to make a profit. Period. If that's what you're against, then you should be clamoring for a central auction house.
I see this as a good thing. Back in the day, hahaha yeah I know way back in it's prime, UO was the best for doing this. I used to spend half my play time going out to the more remote houses and finding thier cheap stocks, buying them out and taking them to my nice and public shops to sell at great profits. The players didnt like spending the time going out to the remote locations to find the deals, they wanted what they wanted and were willing to pay for convienience. I provided that service for them. And I think that should be allowed, as it is a very enjoyable game play aspect for some of us out there.
A centralized Auction house system is more convenient sure, but it does kill a ton of enjoyment to the crafter/marketeer type players.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
"It might be difficult at the beginning. We might be asking alot of effort from the people who enjoy the crafting system, but this time we want them to go to the market, and have their own bazzar, and use retainers, and try to figure out whats going to be the best price. If there is an Auction House it is just obvious which is the cheapest price, and the economy gets determined quite easily. We would like the players to establish their own market, by themselves, so it's going to be very exciting."
That is a poor excuse for not having Auction Houses. The creme of the crop " game economy " has Auction Houses all over it's game world. How hard is it to place 5 - 10 regional Auction Houses with rescources that only drop in the areas around it?
That is a poor excuse for not having Auction Houses. The creme of the crop " game economy " has Auction Houses all over it's game world. How hard is it to place 5 - 10 regional Auction Houses with rescources that only drop in the areas around it?
Actually, your 'creme of the crop' game economy is a built in game money sink. Designed to make life easier for the players sure, but not just to buy and sell, but to free up your time so you can go farm more cash to put more stuff on the AH, so you can make more money to pay more fees to the AH, to lose more cash so you can spend more time going out to farm more stuff to sell so you can spend more money on the AH. Are you seeing anything here yet? Do you see any interaction between players at all? Do you see any sense of community? Any sense of pride in crafting? What your creme of the crop economy is, is nothign more than a mechanism to distribute one mans trash to another man in as fast, easy, and money leeching way possible.
It's like requiring, oh I don't know, 40c for every attachment on a mail message you send to your alt bank toon, at 10-15 items per email. Charging you ever increasing fees to buy more bank slots, and bigger bags to hold more stuff so you can sell it all on your auction house and pay more fees for everyone you post. All so you can have more free time to go out and farm more money and get more drops, and do it all over again.
Oh and if you hadn't noticed yet by reading this, I dont actually find that to be a 'game economy', I find that to be a serious of money sink mechanics placed in a game to enhance subscription duration. Its a never ending cycle of money in to nowhere, that causes you to have to keep going and in turn pay for the next month of service. And OMG please do not ask for that in yet another game!
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
This actually sounds awesome...like someone said earlier, you will actually engage with the seller and much like a real life store you might go there again because you like the person selling the item to you...you can develop business type relationships...
If it were any other game I'd probably say "that's just another dumb thing", but since this game's main strength is story and immersion I would have to say that no AH and a more personal type bazaar marketplace, only adds to the immersion. Im sure that this game will not have the population of WoW because of things like this, but that's actually better. No easy moders running around wanting a free ride.
Now Im not one of those "grinding gives a challenge and you are sissy man if you can't grind" type of Aion playing people, but it's very refreshing to have played the FFXIV beta and actually find in it real challenge and true immersion...I never thought Id find a game like this....Im sold and Im definately in favor of no AH.
....and.....when a game is a grind from the get go (Aion and L2), everything in it is a grind....Like I said, this idea can be good for a game or bad for a game depending on the games (as a whole) motive and what kind of players it plans to attract.
This topic is titled wrong... there won't be an AH 'at launch'
There is even a area in the beta where the auction house will be... for some reason I get the feeling a lot of stuff is not being added until the PS3 version is launched.
For those advocating this system go check out Aion and L2 for what its done for community. Bunch of AFK accounts. It is not that cool and its how it will end up here.
Unless I'm mistaken, and my time spent playing Aion, they do have an auction house dont they? Could have sworn I seen and used that thing. Oh, thats right, your talking about the player run shops where you set it up and walk away from your computer. I have seen nothing yet from SE for FFXIV that state they will have that system.
Oh and the couple years i played L2, that problem was lag generating in the larger cities from the shops. Otherwise not so much, and, if you took away all the farmers that were set up as shops, you wouldnt have had even that. In L2 the farmers sold stuff for rediculously high prices on thier shops, forcing people to buy thier game money with real money, which you used to buy thier items in game, thereby giving them back the game moeny you just bought from them. Oh and they controlled it with open world PvP, if you wandered into a zone they designated as thier farm land, they would force you out or kill you.
But if thats what your saying its going to be like in FFXIV, I'm not sure how, but ok if you say so.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I don´t know if theres going to be different towns but if so wouldn´t it be possible to make an AH that just lists items around the city? You still have to "set up shop" to get items listed and items will vary in prices from town to town probably based on the location in regards to what resources is needed.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually really enjoy it. In FFXI even with an AH I would go browse the private stores outside of Jeuno often. I have found even in beta my favorite retainers and I visit them all the time. Really love the system, and like the personal touch. Just because other games make everything easy as hell to the point that you can play with one hand and an IQ of 5 doesn't mean all games have to.
"It might be difficult at the beginning. We might be asking alot of effort from the people who enjoy the crafting system, but this time we want them to go to the market, and have their own bazzar, and use retainers, and try to figure out whats going to be the best price. If there is an Auction House it is just obvious which is the cheapest price, and the economy gets determined quite easily. We would like the players to establish their own market, by themselves, so it's going to be very exciting."
Good reason, but the flip side is, it might take you a very long and boring time to find that one item you're looking for. On the other hand, you'll have to create a robust market where people are yelling for items, trying to find retainers that they know sells that item. This system does have potential.
I dont' know to what extent people hate the current system because it is soooo different vs. it's a pain in the a$$. I think the answer depends on each person and their willingness to try and partake/develope the type of economy SE visions.
no AH puts the power in the hands of the seller. It does indeed force players to go from seller to seller.
Quite frankly I like how it worked in lineage 2. The cities were filled with people searching and bargain hunting and making deals.
It really made the cities feel like cities.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I'm just bloody glad they don't have a Worldwide chat system in FFXIV.
With no AH, it would have been pure living Hell to try and sift through chat for things with people going "Selling 5 ice crystals and 200,000 rat pelts! Send /pm for offer and get it while they last!"
I hate that shit in MMOs and people that do it irritate me to no end. Put your stuff up, if it sells... good. If it don't, tough luck. They spam all day trying to sell.. nothing worth.. nothing.
And stop trying to get me to "offer" you a price first and tell me what you want for the friggin thing because if I offer you an amount and you say "Okay" on the first offer, I'm immediately gonna figure that's too high and not pay that.
This would have been magnified 1000 fold with no AH being in there and people's little booths getting ignored because no one wants to buy fish parts.
Originally posted by Vryheid Originally posted by ceforlife Imma gonna purchase a few extra retainers at the start, around 6 or 7 of 'em, and have their bazaar's full of dodo meat... overpriced dodo meat at 1,000,000 gil a pop. Might have a few cloves in their too, for the same prices of course. Hope you buy from me!
If anything the dodo skins are going to be more useful because tanners can turn them into valuable leather. I'm not sure what cooking specialists can make that's actually useful in this game, so I've just dumped most of the meat I've collected.
Doubt it.
If the launch is anything like the beta, dodo skin drops off everything.. even NON dodos. I was killing Puk Hatchlings and Puks and they dropped tons of dodo meats/skin. I actually got so much I started npcing it because it kept dropping all over.
Most of the mobs in beta seem to have a WIDE drop table, even things from mobs that are near them it looked like. I got Buffalo Leather off of some mob that WASN'T a buffalo. I remember this because I wanted to kill a Billygoat for the buff skin but it was way OP. But I ended up with a Buff leather anyways from another mob altogether.
Top Ten reasons why FFXIV won't have an auction house at launch (pick your own):
1. They want to encourage trading among players and let them set the market without the speed and instant correction of the AH.
2. They are afraid goldsellers will be able to dominate the AH, so this system will force any goldsellers to put his items in retainers constantly, where most people might not see them, lowering his income.
3. They are just plain lazy.
4. They have an Auction House that's different from FFXI, but it's not quite ready yet because they are adding some super-dooper goldbusting features.
5. Because of Rolanberry marts that used to be in FFXI, they actually think Westerners prefer running from stand to stand and crap to standing around in an AH.
6. They want to be different from every other new MMO because they know every MMO coming out will have a broker or AH type system and this makes them unique.
7. They pulled everyone working on the AH off of that to fix the other problems in the game and after launch is over, they'll put them back on it.
8. They know it will irritate most of the people who've come from other MMO complaining about NO JUMPING and NO SWIMMING. They are just waiting for those people to unsub then they'll release it after all the unsavory characters are gone and have one big laugh.
9. They want you to purchase more characters for $3 a pop so you can open more retainers to sell more crap, generating more income for them.
10. They have no real good reason at all.
*just having a little fun before people blow a gasker over no AH.
This might end up being very similar to how Everquest originally was, when people would line up in the East Commonlands tunnels and spam trade chats all day with what they were selling. The payoff is that you actually spend a lot of time getting to know the high-profile sellers and I don't know about everyone else, but one of my favorite experiences from EQ were the days in the trade tunnel and just interacting with people.
Problem is that this system was leagues better than the current cumbersome and bulky retainer system implemented in FFXIV. Fixing the lag will do wonders, but it still has a way to go before it becomes a feature people are going to actually want to use.
In EQ I could go to Eastern Commonlands and generally find the item I want. It was also obvious what the prices of items were on that server rather than having to go through each retainer - usually loaded with junk items - one by one I could do price comparisons based on the current shouts. It became obvious if you were asking too much for an item that was common, and you'd have to lower your price accordingly. The way the system is currently setup it could take hours sorting through all the retainers trying to find the item you wanted (in EQ you'd know within a couple minutes if the item in EC tunnels was up for sale or not) and it will be even worse if you are doing any sort of price comparison. I could also interact specifically with the trader and haggle prices, which you cannot do with the current retainer system.
Shouts don't seem to carry as far in FFXIV and also shouting is generally looked down upon by Japanese players, so you can't really make due with the same system, though you can shout in cities and I'd imagine that will be one of the major ways to sell items - but a lot of people in cities aren't going to tolerate that sort of spam (it was okay in EC, as that wasn't a town and rather more of a trading hub, plus there were specific channels).
Currently the best way I've found to sell items is to make your character a walking bazaar and idle in areas where your items will likely come in handy. For instance selling shards for crafters idling in the NPC market ward usually nets great profit within a couple of hours. Selling weapons and armor by the weapon vendors or aethyrte crystals is another good way to sell items.
SE is eventually going to give in and put up a search feature for retainers which will make the system sort of like the bazaar was in EQ (only with the annoyance of having to switch instances), but they already said they want to see how this retainer system works without a search feature after release anyway before they add one, even though nearly every feedback associated with the retainers is how it's not going to work in it's current implementation. Until then I'd suggest using a shout or idle player bazaar method to sell goods.
Well crap, so much for a flashback of good old EC Tunnel trading lol. Thanks for explaining the mechanics a bit, I haven't had a chance to play beta so I wasn't totally sure how it worked. Just going off of what I've heard thus far.
This is just a stupidly bad idea, its on the same lv of stupidness that the fatigue system is at.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
FFXIV product manager must be a UO fan. it is a feature from UO. trade and how to trade is part of a mmo game. now everyone need use more time on trading instead of fighting. fighting actaully is pretty boring to a player had 20 year game experience.
You know this is actually cool, but I wish they put in a small AH with a max limit on it.
I loved how SWG use to be in regards to "going shopping" about once a month, I'd just go visit all the player cities and shop and find cool things for bargains or nifty things I wanted to have but didn't find.
You could use the bazaar for anything under like 5000, and at that time all you could use was a vendor waypoint if you were in merchant, but couldn't see goods, then they made it so it was practically pointless(though you can and still do it, at least what my friend tells me)
This is a feature I support, no set prices and you actually have to go to a place other than a magical broker who has a billion things like walmart.
They simply need to add a way to browse items in one of the market wards. Say search for an item and it lists what market wards it exists in. Not even prices just where. Something akin to standing at the entrance and yelling, "I NEED A PINK MAGE HAT OF DOOM", and vendors yelling back, "GET IT HERE!!!".
Personal trade/merchanting is a great thing. I am sick of MMO's making everything easy mode and catering to the anti social.
Personal trade/merchanting is a great thing. I am sick of MMO's making everything easy mode and catering to the anti social.
What part of buying goods from a retainer merchant is social? You're not even interacting with an AFK "real" character who you might bump into on the battlefield someday. I have never considered buying a soda from a vending machine personal trade just because a person somewhere whose name I don't even know stocked the machine.
Using easy mode as a pejorative makes for a poor defense of the AH-less system. Auction Houses don't cater to the lazy and anti-social, they cater to the dabblers. The people who take up Weaving for the sole purpose of making some armor for themselves and a couple of their friends. They'll get a bunch of raw materials (gathered themselves or by said friends), make as much armor as they need plus a little extra, and sell the extras to recoup some of their costs and time. With an AH, they could figure out the going price and throw their items up there for 5% less and be done with it. Without one, they have little reference for figuring out a reasonable price so they have to go through a trial-and-error process of relisting the items at different prices until someone buys them. They don't want to be a businessman, they just want to craft some robes for the people they play with and get on with their life.
This vending machine system makes it more costly and more time-consuming to dabble in a craft without maintaining a spreadsheet of price trends. Despite being the sort of person who does maintain spreadsheets of price trends, I think that is a bad direction to go in because I know that it would just ruin crafting for the average person.
Personal trade/merchanting is a great thing. I am sick of MMO's making everything easy mode and catering to the anti social.
What part of buying goods from a retainer merchant is social? You're not even interacting with an AFK "real" character who you might bump into on the battlefield someday. I have never considered buying a soda from a vending machine personal trade just because a person somewhere whose name I don't even know stocked the machine.
Using easy mode as a pejorative makes for a poor defense of the AH-less system. Auction Houses don't cater to the lazy and anti-social, they cater to the dabblers. The people who take up Weaving for the sole purpose of making some armor for themselves and a couple of their friends. They'll get a bunch of raw materials (gathered themselves or by said friends), make as much armor as they need plus a little extra, and sell the extras to recoup some of their costs and time. With an AH, they could figure out the going price and throw their items up there for 5% less and be done with it. Without one, they have little reference for figuring out a reasonable price so they have to go through a trial-and-error process of relisting the items at different prices until someone buys them. They don't want to be a businessman, they just want to craft some robes for the people they play with and get on with their life.
This vending machine system makes it more costly and more time-consuming to dabble in a craft without maintaining a spreadsheet of price trends. Despite being the sort of person who does maintain spreadsheets of price trends, I think that is a bad direction to go in because I know that it would just ruin crafting for the average person.
I think ProfRed's idea of what social trade means is interacting as and with part of a sub community as a buyer or a seller. While you've never thought of buying a soda from a 'personal trade' vending machine, I'm sure you've walked into a store and asked a store employee about a specific item?
However that probably isn't exactly something we'll see in FFXIV, but maybe the principle will remain the same.
Personally, I'd much prefer walking through a crowded alley way browsing player shops, all while listening to the merchants post to the auction channel, then to click on an NPC to instantly see a list of available items for sale.
The major problem with the typical aution house system is that there is usually a complete disconnect between the buyer and seller. A perfect example of this is when you buy an item from the auction house and a friend asks you where you got it, you'd say "I found it on the auction house", and not "Soandso sold it to me".
Comments
Everything you have said, I agree with wholeheartedly.
I would also like to add a bit on the topic of "controlling a market". Do any of you understand the biggest factor that allows someone to temporarily play the market and make some money? Every person on the whole server has the potential to acquire any item that can be sold. If you want something, why not get it or make it yourself instead of buying it? Because of convenience. Because going through the process of getting that thing yourself isn't worth as much to you as the gil in your pocket. Because Time is Money. I will gladly buy your apple pie, sir, rather than take time away from my crafting, questing, roleplaying, or grinding to go apple picking on my own. It's not a matter of instant gratification, it's a matter of priority.
The more inconvenient it is to engage in buying and selling, the more time you have to spend just to buy the things you need and sell the things you don't need. The more time you are required to spend, the more money people will be willing to spend in order to avoid it. The MORE you go away from a simple buyer-friendly system, the MORE you hurt people who don't want to spend a long time pricewatching and the MORE you benefit people who are willing to spend a long time pricewatching. Who is willing to spend the most time on that, you ask? Why, the people who want to play the market of course! Removing convenience benefits the people who have the knowledge and the will to play with supply and demand to make a profit. Period. If that's what you're against, then you should be clamoring for a central auction house.
In my opinion the AH in most MMO's actually hurts the "community" aspect of the game. It doesn't promote social interaction. I can remember playing Ultima Online and going into Britian and comming across a virtual swap meet at the bank. Anything and everything a player might need could be purchased, from other players. There was so much social interaction going on, it gave the game a real feeling of community that I've not seen in any MMO since. It would be a refreshing return for a game to do away with an overpriced AH in favor of player to player, face to face (or toon to toon) commerce. Immagine a Massively Multiplayer Online game in which players dealt with one another for reasons other than needing bodies to fill a group or raid.
Like a community or something?
I see this as a good thing. Back in the day, hahaha yeah I know way back in it's prime, UO was the best for doing this. I used to spend half my play time going out to the more remote houses and finding thier cheap stocks, buying them out and taking them to my nice and public shops to sell at great profits. The players didnt like spending the time going out to the remote locations to find the deals, they wanted what they wanted and were willing to pay for convienience. I provided that service for them. And I think that should be allowed, as it is a very enjoyable game play aspect for some of us out there.
A centralized Auction house system is more convenient sure, but it does kill a ton of enjoyment to the crafter/marketeer type players.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
That is a poor excuse for not having Auction Houses. The creme of the crop " game economy " has Auction Houses all over it's game world. How hard is it to place 5 - 10 regional Auction Houses with rescources that only drop in the areas around it?
Actually, your 'creme of the crop' game economy is a built in game money sink. Designed to make life easier for the players sure, but not just to buy and sell, but to free up your time so you can go farm more cash to put more stuff on the AH, so you can make more money to pay more fees to the AH, to lose more cash so you can spend more time going out to farm more stuff to sell so you can spend more money on the AH. Are you seeing anything here yet? Do you see any interaction between players at all? Do you see any sense of community? Any sense of pride in crafting? What your creme of the crop economy is, is nothign more than a mechanism to distribute one mans trash to another man in as fast, easy, and money leeching way possible.
It's like requiring, oh I don't know, 40c for every attachment on a mail message you send to your alt bank toon, at 10-15 items per email. Charging you ever increasing fees to buy more bank slots, and bigger bags to hold more stuff so you can sell it all on your auction house and pay more fees for everyone you post. All so you can have more free time to go out and farm more money and get more drops, and do it all over again.
Oh and if you hadn't noticed yet by reading this, I dont actually find that to be a 'game economy', I find that to be a serious of money sink mechanics placed in a game to enhance subscription duration. Its a never ending cycle of money in to nowhere, that causes you to have to keep going and in turn pay for the next month of service. And OMG please do not ask for that in yet another game!
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
This actually sounds awesome...like someone said earlier, you will actually engage with the seller and much like a real life store you might go there again because you like the person selling the item to you...you can develop business type relationships...
If it were any other game I'd probably say "that's just another dumb thing", but since this game's main strength is story and immersion I would have to say that no AH and a more personal type bazaar marketplace, only adds to the immersion. Im sure that this game will not have the population of WoW because of things like this, but that's actually better. No easy moders running around wanting a free ride.
Now Im not one of those "grinding gives a challenge and you are sissy man if you can't grind" type of Aion playing people, but it's very refreshing to have played the FFXIV beta and actually find in it real challenge and true immersion...I never thought Id find a game like this....Im sold and Im definately in favor of no AH.
Aion has an AH...a.k.a. Brokers
....and.....when a game is a grind from the get go (Aion and L2), everything in it is a grind....Like I said, this idea can be good for a game or bad for a game depending on the games (as a whole) motive and what kind of players it plans to attract.
This topic is titled wrong... there won't be an AH 'at launch'
There is even a area in the beta where the auction house will be... for some reason I get the feeling a lot of stuff is not being added until the PS3 version is launched.
Unless I'm mistaken, and my time spent playing Aion, they do have an auction house dont they? Could have sworn I seen and used that thing. Oh, thats right, your talking about the player run shops where you set it up and walk away from your computer. I have seen nothing yet from SE for FFXIV that state they will have that system.
Oh and the couple years i played L2, that problem was lag generating in the larger cities from the shops. Otherwise not so much, and, if you took away all the farmers that were set up as shops, you wouldnt have had even that. In L2 the farmers sold stuff for rediculously high prices on thier shops, forcing people to buy thier game money with real money, which you used to buy thier items in game, thereby giving them back the game moeny you just bought from them. Oh and they controlled it with open world PvP, if you wandered into a zone they designated as thier farm land, they would force you out or kill you.
But if thats what your saying its going to be like in FFXIV, I'm not sure how, but ok if you say so.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
I don´t know if theres going to be different towns but if so wouldn´t it be possible to make an AH that just lists items around the city? You still have to "set up shop" to get items listed and items will vary in prices from town to town probably based on the location in regards to what resources is needed.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
LOL, EVE forums are that way ---->
Nothing particularly challenging or brilliant about a poorly designed/implemented crafting system.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I actually really enjoy it. In FFXI even with an AH I would go browse the private stores outside of Jeuno often. I have found even in beta my favorite retainers and I visit them all the time. Really love the system, and like the personal touch. Just because other games make everything easy as hell to the point that you can play with one hand and an IQ of 5 doesn't mean all games have to.
no AH puts the power in the hands of the seller. It does indeed force players to go from seller to seller.
Quite frankly I like how it worked in lineage 2. The cities were filled with people searching and bargain hunting and making deals.
It really made the cities feel like cities.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
I'm just bloody glad they don't have a Worldwide chat system in FFXIV.
With no AH, it would have been pure living Hell to try and sift through chat for things with people going "Selling 5 ice crystals and 200,000 rat pelts! Send /pm for offer and get it while they last!"
I hate that shit in MMOs and people that do it irritate me to no end. Put your stuff up, if it sells... good. If it don't, tough luck. They spam all day trying to sell.. nothing worth.. nothing.
And stop trying to get me to "offer" you a price first and tell me what you want for the friggin thing because if I offer you an amount and you say "Okay" on the first offer, I'm immediately gonna figure that's too high and not pay that.
This would have been magnified 1000 fold with no AH being in there and people's little booths getting ignored because no one wants to buy fish parts.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Doubt it.
If the launch is anything like the beta, dodo skin drops off everything.. even NON dodos. I was killing Puk Hatchlings and Puks and they dropped tons of dodo meats/skin. I actually got so much I started npcing it because it kept dropping all over.
Most of the mobs in beta seem to have a WIDE drop table, even things from mobs that are near them it looked like. I got Buffalo Leather off of some mob that WASN'T a buffalo. I remember this because I wanted to kill a Billygoat for the buff skin but it was way OP. But I ended up with a Buff leather anyways from another mob altogether.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Top Ten reasons why FFXIV won't have an auction house at launch (pick your own):
1. They want to encourage trading among players and let them set the market without the speed and instant correction of the AH.
2. They are afraid goldsellers will be able to dominate the AH, so this system will force any goldsellers to put his items in retainers constantly, where most people might not see them, lowering his income.
3. They are just plain lazy.
4. They have an Auction House that's different from FFXI, but it's not quite ready yet because they are adding some super-dooper goldbusting features.
5. Because of Rolanberry marts that used to be in FFXI, they actually think Westerners prefer running from stand to stand and crap to standing around in an AH.
6. They want to be different from every other new MMO because they know every MMO coming out will have a broker or AH type system and this makes them unique.
7. They pulled everyone working on the AH off of that to fix the other problems in the game and after launch is over, they'll put them back on it.
8. They know it will irritate most of the people who've come from other MMO complaining about NO JUMPING and NO SWIMMING. They are just waiting for those people to unsub then they'll release it after all the unsavory characters are gone and have one big laugh.
9. They want you to purchase more characters for $3 a pop so you can open more retainers to sell more crap, generating more income for them.
10. They have no real good reason at all.
*just having a little fun before people blow a gasker over no AH.
"TO MICHAEL!"
Well crap, so much for a flashback of good old EC Tunnel trading lol. Thanks for explaining the mechanics a bit, I haven't had a chance to play beta so I wasn't totally sure how it worked. Just going off of what I've heard thus far.
This is just a stupidly bad idea, its on the same lv of stupidness that the fatigue system is at.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
FFXIV product manager must be a UO fan. it is a feature from UO. trade and how to trade is part of a mmo game. now everyone need use more time on trading instead of fighting. fighting actaully is pretty boring to a player had 20 year game experience.
You know this is actually cool, but I wish they put in a small AH with a max limit on it.
I loved how SWG use to be in regards to "going shopping" about once a month, I'd just go visit all the player cities and shop and find cool things for bargains or nifty things I wanted to have but didn't find.
You could use the bazaar for anything under like 5000, and at that time all you could use was a vendor waypoint if you were in merchant, but couldn't see goods, then they made it so it was practically pointless(though you can and still do it, at least what my friend tells me)
This is a feature I support, no set prices and you actually have to go to a place other than a magical broker who has a billion things like walmart.
They simply need to add a way to browse items in one of the market wards. Say search for an item and it lists what market wards it exists in. Not even prices just where. Something akin to standing at the entrance and yelling, "I NEED A PINK MAGE HAT OF DOOM", and vendors yelling back, "GET IT HERE!!!".
Personal trade/merchanting is a great thing. I am sick of MMO's making everything easy mode and catering to the anti social.
What part of buying goods from a retainer merchant is social? You're not even interacting with an AFK "real" character who you might bump into on the battlefield someday. I have never considered buying a soda from a vending machine personal trade just because a person somewhere whose name I don't even know stocked the machine.
Using easy mode as a pejorative makes for a poor defense of the AH-less system. Auction Houses don't cater to the lazy and anti-social, they cater to the dabblers. The people who take up Weaving for the sole purpose of making some armor for themselves and a couple of their friends. They'll get a bunch of raw materials (gathered themselves or by said friends), make as much armor as they need plus a little extra, and sell the extras to recoup some of their costs and time. With an AH, they could figure out the going price and throw their items up there for 5% less and be done with it. Without one, they have little reference for figuring out a reasonable price so they have to go through a trial-and-error process of relisting the items at different prices until someone buys them. They don't want to be a businessman, they just want to craft some robes for the people they play with and get on with their life.
This vending machine system makes it more costly and more time-consuming to dabble in a craft without maintaining a spreadsheet of price trends. Despite being the sort of person who does maintain spreadsheets of price trends, I think that is a bad direction to go in because I know that it would just ruin crafting for the average person.
I think ProfRed's idea of what social trade means is interacting as and with part of a sub community as a buyer or a seller. While you've never thought of buying a soda from a 'personal trade' vending machine, I'm sure you've walked into a store and asked a store employee about a specific item?
However that probably isn't exactly something we'll see in FFXIV, but maybe the principle will remain the same.
Personally, I'd much prefer walking through a crowded alley way browsing player shops, all while listening to the merchants post to the auction channel, then to click on an NPC to instantly see a list of available items for sale.
The major problem with the typical aution house system is that there is usually a complete disconnect between the buyer and seller. A perfect example of this is when you buy an item from the auction house and a friend asks you where you got it, you'd say "I found it on the auction house", and not "Soandso sold it to me".