Yeah right now I meet a crafter, chat with them, learn about their retainer, go back to the retainer often. It creates an interpersonal trade system where I can go meet crafters, and get discounts or setup deals with them rather then a list where I blindly buy off of it.
Currently it would be nice to have a little search system for retainers, and be able to link crafters to their retainers, etc. I think that with the playersite and with more time and things like the mog houses we may get to a point where crafters become really well known and their retainers are simply a face for the 'shop' or business they create.
to the OP AH does exactly the same thing as they are looking for but faster and more efficiently. I mean bazaars are nice but they aren't as good as an AH for time simplicity of use prices. the time youll be looking through the bazaars trying to get a good price is a sunk cost you could have been out killing mobs making more money.
I think the retainer system is backwards from every other MMO out there. To me? It's just another Korean/Japanese convention that's been in a lot of F2P games. Which, I hated.
I hate spending 4 hours trying to find one freaking item I need to make something. Or one peice of gear that I'd like to get to do something else. It's silly, and stupid.
I find it *HILARIOUS* that the devs want to cater to the casual crowd and then put such a massive timesink into the game such as this.
It just shows me SE has some serious design flaws in their teams. I mean, hello? IF you want to cater to casual gamers don't put something in that actively wastes time, or makes it more difficult. If I only have two hours to play a night - do I really want to waste it going through 100+ retainers just to find one item?
Nope. I hope they have an NPC with a search function that allows you to look.
To me? This system is just an artificial way of controlling the economy. Meaning this:
Keep everyone in the dark about market trends and or prices so no one knows how to price anything. SO there is no equilibrium and people will pay stupid prices for something. I mean, I saw people selling daggers for 5000 gil. That's a massive amount. After playing for a day or so, I only had like 2k gil.
I ended up spending that much to get the materials necessary to grind up and make the item myself. (The 2k gil, that is.)
See what I mean? It's silly and antiquated. It's like SE likes taking steps backwards in game design instead of forward...
Interesting. This is pretty much the equivalent for EVE in a fantasy setting.
It will only be chaotic in the beginning, but people will settle for certain areas with certain goods, like a shopping mall. The same could be told about AH systems though, in the release and whenever new items are released. AH have a fundamental flaw though as one single person can easily have a vast control over a few items, marking them up and profiting from it.
It's not as hard as you're making it sound, older MMOs were like that, and no, there was no trade channel for people to flood, and yes, people still had a life 10 years ago.
Off-topic - Past midnight over here and I am sleepy and lazy, could anyone answer me if monsters in this game drop equipment or materials to make it instead? Or is the crafting system elaborate enough to not even need these materials? This game might be the jewel I have been searching for.
I think the retainer system is backwards from every other MMO out there. To me? It's just another Korean/Japanese convention that's been in a lot of F2P games. Which, I hated.
I hate spending 4 hours trying to find one freaking item I need to make something. Or one peice of gear that I'd like to get to do something else. It's silly, and stupid.
I find it *HILARIOUS* that the devs want to cater to the casual crowd and then put such a massive timesink into the game such as this.
It just shows me SE has some serious design flaws in their teams. I mean, hello? IF you want to cater to casual gamers don't put something in that actively wastes time, or makes it more difficult. If I only have two hours to play a night - do I really want to waste it going through 100+ retainers just to find one item?
Nope. I hope they have an NPC with a search function that allows you to look.
To me? This system is just an artificial way of controlling the economy. Meaning this:
Keep everyone in the dark about market trends and or prices so no one knows how to price anything. SO there is no equilibrium and people will pay stupid prices for something. I mean, I saw people selling daggers for 5000 gil. That's a massive amount. After playing for a day or so, I only had like 2k gil.
I ended up spending that much to get the materials necessary to grind up and make the item myself. (The 2k gil, that is.)
See what I mean? It's silly and antiquated. It's like SE likes taking steps backwards in game design instead of forward...
all just to enforce silly timesinks.
Well, it works very well in games that have more to their economy than a list.
It's very robust, encourages players to communicate, it is not a flawed system but a different system.
One that is about playing the market, making deals, finding the best spots to sell, etc.
you have a rare item? you set up close to where players enter the city. You over price it. Now, the players who are looking for that item might pass and see what else is in the city. Or they might get nervous that if they pass it by they will lose it.
some will snatch it up just so others don't get it.
If you are not interested in that type of market play then fine but there is nothing flawed about it.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
If it's a conflict of convienience to sort through the merchants to find that shiney new helmet you want, what's stopping you from going to the chat channels and getting it from one of the crafters online? I mean it is an MMO there will be crafters on willing to make things for people at request. Not to mention someone who has that drop item you need, who would probably be willing to part with it for some gil. I seem to remember doing that in almost every MMO I've played.
Eventually, someone will develop a script that will compile all the retainers across the server and make their website the AH of XIV. It's only a matter of time.
I think the retainer system is backwards from every other MMO out there. To me? It's just another Korean/Japanese convention that's been in a lot of F2P games. Which, I hated.
I hate spending 4 hours trying to find one freaking item I need to make something. Or one peice of gear that I'd like to get to do something else. It's silly, and stupid.
I find it *HILARIOUS* that the devs want to cater to the casual crowd and then put such a massive timesink into the game such as this.
It just shows me SE has some serious design flaws in their teams. I mean, hello? IF you want to cater to casual gamers don't put something in that actively wastes time, or makes it more difficult. If I only have two hours to play a night - do I really want to waste it going through 100+ retainers just to find one item?
Nope. I hope they have an NPC with a search function that allows you to look.
To me? This system is just an artificial way of controlling the economy. Meaning this:
Keep everyone in the dark about market trends and or prices so no one knows how to price anything. SO there is no equilibrium and people will pay stupid prices for something. I mean, I saw people selling daggers for 5000 gil. That's a massive amount. After playing for a day or so, I only had like 2k gil.
I ended up spending that much to get the materials necessary to grind up and make the item myself. (The 2k gil, that is.)
See what I mean? It's silly and antiquated. It's like SE likes taking steps backwards in game design instead of forward...
all just to enforce silly timesinks.
Well, it works very well in games that have more to their economy than a list.
It's very robust, encourages players to communicate, it is not a flawed system but a different system.
One that is about playing the market, making deals, finding the best spots to sell, etc.
you have a rare item? you set up close to where players enter the city. You over price it. Now, the players who are looking for that item might pass and see what else is in the city. Or they might get nervous that if they pass it by they will lose it.
some will snatch it up just so others don't get it.
If you are not interested in that type of market play then fine but there is nothing flawed about it.
Sovrath is right that it different. From a mini-game point of view, an AH is very shallow.
Deost, you sound very impatient and want everything now. This is why some devs think MT is the way to go.
"It might be difficult at the beginning. We might be asking alot of effort from the people who enjoy the crafting system, but this time we want them to go to the market, and have their own bazzar, and use retainers, and try to figure out whats going to be the best price. If there is an Auction House it is just obvious which is the cheapest price, and the economy gets determined quite easily. We would like the players to establish their own market, by themselves, so it's going to be very exciting."
Good reason, but the flip side is, it might take you a very long and boring time to find that one item you're looking for. On the other hand, you'll have to create a robust market where people are yelling for items, trying to find retainers that they know sells that item. This system does have potential.
I dont' know to what extent people hate the current system because it is soooo different vs. it's a pain in the a$$. I think the answer depends on each person and their willingness to try and partake/develope the type of economy SE visions.
also games that dont have item searches, well you establish a repore with known crafters, someone who has a ton of good smithing recipes persay, thats your armor guy, and im sure there will be a channel or 100 that will have the crafters hawking their goods in some zone in some city, or in all cities, and people always post on forums what they sell, costs, and preferred profit margins or acceptable material trades, it just adds to community to not have an auto mode auction house, and makes it harder for the stock brokers to try and be sobs hehe, not that you cant buy up cheap goods and mark them up, just that you cant do it via some auction interface!
Sovrath is right that it different. From a mini-game point of view, an AH is very shallow.
Deost, you sound very impatient and want everything now. This is why some devs think MT is the way to go.
Another thing to think about is the convenience of individual shops. Not sure how it's done in FF XIV but in both Lineage 2 and Aion, one can set up a shop anywhere.
If a person is looking for a certain incredient or crafting part and they are going to an area where they need to spend a lot of time harvesting/killing mobs for that item, an entreprenuerial player can set up shop and as long as he has the inventory can make a bit of money.
I've purchased thing from these types of shops many times.
And I know in Lineage 2 there is also a buy shop.
so if a player knows there is an item he/she wants and it drops in an area, but it's only an item that a crafter would want or someone looking for a specific item for whatever reason, he/she can set up the buy shop and in short order the people who are questing in that area might drop by and sell it.
It's a great system.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
Nope. Without a search feature people will just shout their wares.
Actually, I think that would be a nice feature. Since it's a marketplace, maybe they could add some type of auto-shout function to the Retainer management options. This way you could set up your retainer(s) in the Market Wardens to automatically shout out one of two options at (randomly) timed intervals
an auto-generated message consisting of the vendors name and a random item from his stock with the number available and a unit price.
a customized message (e.g. "Buy items X and Y at the X and Y specialist. Discounts!")
The reach of these shouts is naturally limited to the Warden they are currently standing in.
This would make the market districts feel more vibrant and lively (as would a real market be) and it gives potential customers a sense of direction. Someone looking to buy a specific item could enter a Market Warden, observe the chatter for a moment and decide if one or more retainers may be worth checking out or they can decide to move to the next warden without the need to manually check every single retainer.
Eventually, someone will develop a script that will compile all the retainers across the server and make their website the AH of XIV. It's only a matter of time.
Actually, I think that would be a nice feature. Since it's a marketplace, maybe they could add some type of auto-shout function to the Retainer management options. This way you could set up your retainer(s) in the Market ..
That could work. Zentia does something similar. Your pets can be taught the "Peddle" command. It basically allows them to shout a message for you.
Right now it is just a pain in the backside. I spent a good 30 minutes searching only half the merchants in one instance. To search all the instances would take several hours. Some of this has to do with UI lag, multiple menus, and the occassional server error "unable to load data." That adds more time into whole equation that is already time consuming.
I also feel like the market wards are too small. They are tiny hallways crammed with retainers. It just looks junky.
For a bazaar type system I really liked DAoC's housing zone. You went bulliten board, and searched for items for sale. found items and which merchants had them for sale. The time sink there was running to the house with the merchant. If I remember correctly you couldn't see all the stats on the item or the price. You had to visit the merchant for those details.
I really wish FFXIV used a larger market zone with stalls. Every retainer would have it's own stall that they had to rent out. More expensive stalls at the beginning of the zone, and cheaper stalls at the rear. Put up a bulliten board like in DAoC. You can search the board for items and the stall number. You have to physically go to the stall to tell the price and more details about specific stats. This makes finding the items you want much easier, but it doesn't put up a comparison list like an AH.
Comments
Yeah right now I meet a crafter, chat with them, learn about their retainer, go back to the retainer often. It creates an interpersonal trade system where I can go meet crafters, and get discounts or setup deals with them rather then a list where I blindly buy off of it.
Currently it would be nice to have a little search system for retainers, and be able to link crafters to their retainers, etc. I think that with the playersite and with more time and things like the mog houses we may get to a point where crafters become really well known and their retainers are simply a face for the 'shop' or business they create.
to the OP AH does exactly the same thing as they are looking for but faster and more efficiently. I mean bazaars are nice but they aren't as good as an AH for time simplicity of use prices. the time youll be looking through the bazaars trying to get a good price is a sunk cost you could have been out killing mobs making more money.
I think the retainer system is backwards from every other MMO out there. To me? It's just another Korean/Japanese convention that's been in a lot of F2P games. Which, I hated.
I hate spending 4 hours trying to find one freaking item I need to make something. Or one peice of gear that I'd like to get to do something else. It's silly, and stupid.
I find it *HILARIOUS* that the devs want to cater to the casual crowd and then put such a massive timesink into the game such as this.
It just shows me SE has some serious design flaws in their teams. I mean, hello? IF you want to cater to casual gamers don't put something in that actively wastes time, or makes it more difficult. If I only have two hours to play a night - do I really want to waste it going through 100+ retainers just to find one item?
Nope. I hope they have an NPC with a search function that allows you to look.
To me? This system is just an artificial way of controlling the economy. Meaning this:
Keep everyone in the dark about market trends and or prices so no one knows how to price anything. SO there is no equilibrium and people will pay stupid prices for something. I mean, I saw people selling daggers for 5000 gil. That's a massive amount. After playing for a day or so, I only had like 2k gil.
I ended up spending that much to get the materials necessary to grind up and make the item myself. (The 2k gil, that is.)
See what I mean? It's silly and antiquated. It's like SE likes taking steps backwards in game design instead of forward...
all just to enforce silly timesinks.
Interesting. This is pretty much the equivalent for EVE in a fantasy setting.
It will only be chaotic in the beginning, but people will settle for certain areas with certain goods, like a shopping mall. The same could be told about AH systems though, in the release and whenever new items are released. AH have a fundamental flaw though as one single person can easily have a vast control over a few items, marking them up and profiting from it.
It's not as hard as you're making it sound, older MMOs were like that, and no, there was no trade channel for people to flood, and yes, people still had a life 10 years ago.
Off-topic - Past midnight over here and I am sleepy and lazy, could anyone answer me if monsters in this game drop equipment or materials to make it instead? Or is the crafting system elaborate enough to not even need these materials? This game might be the jewel I have been searching for.
OK, so this is not going to be another cookie-cutter/WoW replica MM. Case solved. Next, please!
Well, it works very well in games that have more to their economy than a list.
It's very robust, encourages players to communicate, it is not a flawed system but a different system.
One that is about playing the market, making deals, finding the best spots to sell, etc.
you have a rare item? you set up close to where players enter the city. You over price it. Now, the players who are looking for that item might pass and see what else is in the city. Or they might get nervous that if they pass it by they will lose it.
some will snatch it up just so others don't get it.
If you are not interested in that type of market play then fine but there is nothing flawed about it.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
If it's a conflict of convienience to sort through the merchants to find that shiney new helmet you want, what's stopping you from going to the chat channels and getting it from one of the crafters online? I mean it is an MMO there will be crafters on willing to make things for people at request. Not to mention someone who has that drop item you need, who would probably be willing to part with it for some gil. I seem to remember doing that in almost every MMO I've played.
Eventually, someone will develop a script that will compile all the retainers across the server and make their website the AH of XIV. It's only a matter of time.
Sovrath is right that it different. From a mini-game point of view, an AH is very shallow.
Deost, you sound very impatient and want everything now. This is why some devs think MT is the way to go.
Nope. Without a search feature people will just shout their wares.
also games that dont have item searches, well you establish a repore with known crafters, someone who has a ton of good smithing recipes persay, thats your armor guy, and im sure there will be a channel or 100 that will have the crafters hawking their goods in some zone in some city, or in all cities, and people always post on forums what they sell, costs, and preferred profit margins or acceptable material trades, it just adds to community to not have an auto mode auction house, and makes it harder for the stock brokers to try and be sobs hehe, not that you cant buy up cheap goods and mark them up, just that you cant do it via some auction interface!
Another thing to think about is the convenience of individual shops. Not sure how it's done in FF XIV but in both Lineage 2 and Aion, one can set up a shop anywhere.
If a person is looking for a certain incredient or crafting part and they are going to an area where they need to spend a lot of time harvesting/killing mobs for that item, an entreprenuerial player can set up shop and as long as he has the inventory can make a bit of money.
I've purchased thing from these types of shops many times.
And I know in Lineage 2 there is also a buy shop.
so if a player knows there is an item he/she wants and it drops in an area, but it's only an item that a crafter would want or someone looking for a specific item for whatever reason, he/she can set up the buy shop and in short order the people who are questing in that area might drop by and sell it.
It's a great system.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Actually, I think that would be a nice feature. Since it's a marketplace, maybe they could add some type of auto-shout function to the Retainer management options. This way you could set up your retainer(s) in the Market Wardens to automatically shout out one of two options at (randomly) timed intervals
an auto-generated message consisting of the vendors name and a random item from his stock with the number available and a unit price.
a customized message (e.g. "Buy items X and Y at the X and Y specialist. Discounts!")
The reach of these shouts is naturally limited to the Warden they are currently standing in.
This would make the market districts feel more vibrant and lively (as would a real market be) and it gives potential customers a sense of direction. Someone looking to buy a specific item could enter a Market Warden, observe the chatter for a moment and decide if one or more retainers may be worth checking out or they can decide to move to the next warden without the need to manually check every single retainer.
Just my 2 cents.
why do i need to get the sourc eir ead it and iw ouldnt lie plus i dont remeber where the source is.
like i said ffxi did it thsi way 2 except they never added search feature cause there was no wards.
it was in one the of interviews theya sked about ah and the person said it.
ALSO there is a screenshot of the AH you just cant enter it
wouldnt surprise me
That could work. Zentia does something similar. Your pets can be taught the "Peddle" command. It basically allows them to shout a message for you.
Right now it is just a pain in the backside. I spent a good 30 minutes searching only half the merchants in one instance. To search all the instances would take several hours. Some of this has to do with UI lag, multiple menus, and the occassional server error "unable to load data." That adds more time into whole equation that is already time consuming.
I also feel like the market wards are too small. They are tiny hallways crammed with retainers. It just looks junky.
For a bazaar type system I really liked DAoC's housing zone. You went bulliten board, and searched for items for sale. found items and which merchants had them for sale. The time sink there was running to the house with the merchant. If I remember correctly you couldn't see all the stats on the item or the price. You had to visit the merchant for those details.
I really wish FFXIV used a larger market zone with stalls. Every retainer would have it's own stall that they had to rent out. More expensive stalls at the beginning of the zone, and cheaper stalls at the rear. Put up a bulliten board like in DAoC. You can search the board for items and the stall number. You have to physically go to the stall to tell the price and more details about specific stats. This makes finding the items you want much easier, but it doesn't put up a comparison list like an AH.