Great write up. Lotro though is the clear winner for me though. A few things, I have 3 maxed level characters that I got very far with soloing. Lotro does offer housing, although it's fun-ness doesn't last that long; needs more player involvment.The only thing I think held Lotro back from taking a leap over WoW was that it lacks pixie crack; that kind of eye candy that people go gaga over. Colors are muted and there is nothing flashy, mounts is another thing that held it back. I believe that if Lotro offered more creative options for pets, mounts, flying mounts and weapons that it could surpass and reel in a lot of those WoW clingers that just won't let go.
Lotro has to stick to its fan base and I think that is what hurt the game originally because they would not add anything that didn't fit. However, I wouldn't want that changed, it just needed those things above that I mentioned. Also, I just want to say that in comparision to Lotro's vs. WoW world... Lotro has WoW beat 100% in my opinion; in fact for me it has the best looking world of any MMO I have played.
Regardless, Lotro will be F2P and with the world active and lively again I will be going back to play it. ^^
i'm saying '12 million subs dude' just proves wow is accessible, nothing more, nothing less. It's an incredibly simple analogy to follow, sadly people tend to quote posts without reading them thoroughly and end up missing both the point and the general context of the piece.
and I showed how Lotro is just as accessable and that the simple analogy doesn't really do what you think it does. Everything you said in your comparison about what makes wow accessible applies equally to lotro.
"That's perfectly true except I clearly pointed out the analogy was about accessibility. WoW is perhaps the most accessible game on the market, you don't have to play for hours on end, you can't get jumped and looted by nasty old pvpers, its pick up and play simplicity. That is what the market wants at the moment, casual gaming and accessibility."
How exactly is that any different than lotro?
I'm not reinforcing the concept that 12 million subs proves wow is awesome, but on the other hand what you are saying simply isn't representative to the situation either.
"... Instances, Instances and more instances. World of Warcraft’s approach to the grouping system, amounts to nothing more than jaunts through theme-park style dungeons. ..." 5/10
This is where the Fun part begin, most of WoW Instance are challenging, running an Instance is not that easy for the first time, it does require a Team Coordinating (either on 10 players or 25 players), Good Leadership, concentration and an individual strong understanding on how you play your Role/Class, Tank, Healer, or DPS, once your team/guild successfully clear the Instance, you feel really satisfied, you can hear your team/guild on Ventrillo/Teamspeak, they all happy and yelling, saying good job, nice Heal, etc,
Community
"... In MMORPG land, community is key. World of Warcraft again divides audience with its incessant Chuck Norris gags, duel requests and the general maturity of the populace. While this is the stereotype my experiences with WoW were not exactly like this. I have met mature and immature players, some have annoyed and some have charmed ..."
Any MMORPG with a lot of players most likely will encounter this story, more players more variety people, nothing special on this part ... different MMO, almost same story ...
Turbine has been deleting a lot of group quests (such as in Lone Lands). Nobody uses the LFG tool, its all through the shoutbox. It takes hours to get 6 people together in places like Angmar if you're not in a popular kin.
WoW :
The dungeon finder is cool. 11 million people + Cross server grouping.
So, LoTRO should be winning in Solo, WoW in group quests.
i'm saying '12 million subs dude' just proves wow is accessible, nothing more, nothing less. It's an incredibly simple analogy to follow, sadly people tend to quote posts without reading them thoroughly and end up missing both the point and the general context of the piece.
and I showed how Lotro is just as accessable and that the simple analogy doesn't really do what you think it does. Everything you said in your comparison about what makes wow accessible applies equally to lotro.
"That's perfectly true except I clearly pointed out the analogy was about accessibility. WoW is perhaps the most accessible game on the market, you don't have to play for hours on end, you can't get jumped and looted by nasty old pvpers, its pick up and play simplicity. That is what the market wants at the moment, casual gaming and accessibility."
How exactly is that any different than lotro?
I'm not reinforcing the concept that 12 million subs proves wow is awesome, but on the other hand what you are saying simply isn't representative to the situation either.
Firstly, the major difference between WoW and Lotro is that Lotro doesn't cater to QQ'ing griefers like WoW does.
Secondly, Quantity does not equal Quality when it comes to subscribers.
1. The world in WoW is way to awful compare to LOTRO, cmon man in LOTRO u are living in the Middle Earth, in WoW u are in the middle of ugly places~
and 2. The PvP in LOTRO is much more fun, in WoW u are in a small rooms full of kids with end game gear, which playing always with his mates to kick your ass everytime, cause they know which 4 buttons to push, this is so lame! In LOTRO u have full PvP zone to make epic war PvP! Never seen 50 vs 50 PvP
and the graphics - nothing to compare here!
This is threat is ridicilous - it's like u compared Runescape with Ultima Online
Firstly, the major difference between WoW and Lotro is that Lotro doesn't cater to QQ'ing griefers like WoW does.
Secondly, Quantity does not equal Quality when it comes to subscribers.
Well I think there are plenty of other things that set the two games apart, but I'm glad you got that off your chest. Not that I can even imagine how someone can grief another player in wow and that the developer support that type of gameplay, but whatever.
Even though that was not my point, you are right that quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. There are other factors to consider though. Like industry wide praise and recognition of quality, player ratings across many different sites for the same reasons, "best of" awards, etc. Did I just describe wow, lotro or both games? The answer would be both.
So yes, quantity doesn't mean quality just like quantity doesn't mean lack of quality. My point was that wows sub numbers don't prove accessibility was the key as bunny was trying to use analogies to prove.
Firstly, the major difference between WoW and Lotro is that Lotro doesn't cater to QQ'ing griefers like WoW does.
Secondly, Quantity does not equal Quality when it comes to subscribers.
Well I think there are plenty of other things that set the two games apart, but I'm glad you got that off your chest. Not that I can even imagine how someone can grief another player in wow and that the developer support that type of gameplay, but whatever.
Even though that was not my point, you are right that quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. There are other factors to consider though. Like industry wide praise and recognition of quality, player ratings across many different sites for the same reasons, "best of" awards, etc. Did I just describe wow, lotro or both games? The answer would be both.
So yes, quantity doesn't mean quality just like quantity doesn't mean lack of quality. My point was that wows sub numbers don't prove accessibility was the key as bunny was trying to use analogies to prove.
Lol @ devs who support griefing in WoW.
Go play EvE Online or Lineage 2, I don't think you know what griefing loving developers really are LOL
Surprise surprise, a majority of people are anti-wow on an MMORPG.com article. I'm not surprised but that's ok, it's an opinion piece. The proof is in the facts. Both games are good for their own reasons, but more people enjoy one more than the other. One is going FtP and one is not.
since i've been playing WoW a lot longer than LoTRo, i think WoW is truly the winner, but that's just my opinion. There's something about WoW that i can't understand because i always end up going back to WoW and not to LoTRo
I definitly disagree with the player characters analysis. I always thought LoTRO character models were very ugly and stiff. They might be a little bit more customizable but they are bland in my opinion. The animations completely ruined the feel of combat for me. And WoWs fluid and tight controls have yet to be matched. Lotro characters look like they are sliding to me. Someone else said it perfect earlier in the thread, "Why am I ice skating?".
I also disagree with the group play analysis and your Lotro bias oozes heavily here. One of the biggest problems in MMOs when they got older is less people leveling and it gets harder for peopel to experience appropriate group level content without being power leveled through it.
Blizzards cross realm dungeon tool is simply amazing for letting leveling group up and experience dungeons. If spamming trade for group is the way you prefer things nothing stops you. You mention, raids which have 10 and 25 man variants each with optional hard modes for people who really seek much more challenge, battlegrounds and Arenas, all of which are group content and not just for end game. Battlegrounds give exp and you can run them while leveling up, also level 60 and 70 raids I see getting put together every day in trade chat. And while the 5 man dungeons can be linear they still go well of pulling a player through the story and lore of the game, especially if you bother to read quests and know why you are actually there in the first place. So I will say no thanks to spamming trade and instead get a group almost instantly and experience the lore. I used to be against xrealm dungeons, but I would hate to be without it once I got used to it.
WoWs community can be pretty bad at times, if you read trade chat anyway. For the most part in my random dungeons, especially leveling up, most people are surprisingly chill. You run into a tard here or there but you will in every mmo. If you want to play WoW, roll on the same server as friends, find a guild you fit into well, turn trade chat off and you won't have many complaints about community.
While I was never a fan of the books/movie, LOTRO won me over with its community. As a noob I'd never had a better experience. Any question you had was answered in chat with in a few seconds of you asking it; nobody was rude, insulted you, or made a Chuck Norris joke out of it. Honestly, I don't think I ever came across a person I didn't get along with while playing that game.
Well it surprises me that Lotro wins the Char-category as it was one of the very big weaknesses at the start of the game to have clumy animated ugly looking avatars and classes that are unique but not fun.
Is this really a turn around or have they changed so much?
And there is it, even if a mmorpg fixes stuff its to late bcs you and most/all your friends have already moved away from it and stuck with a new game...
Your only chance is to make it right from the start as they never come back !!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
I forgot that i personally like the Lotro-gameworld/landscape much more for the atmosphere and visuals then that from WoW so another point i am contrary to the talk.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
Me and millions of more people would say "alot better in almost every way"
Vanilla Ice's To the Extreme album sold 11 million copies and was the best selling hip hop album of all time when it was released. McDonald's restaraunts boast "billions" served.
Number of sales hardly denote quality. To you and your millions... so what?
So why did you completely leave out the Skirmishes in LoTRO? Or did you never actually try them out to concider them a part of the overall gaming experience?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
1) New Player Experience - Sorry But LOTRO wins hands down. The epic quest movie sequences and story are much better than...umm..well WoW doesn't offer a story for immersion
2) The environment - Again LOTRO wins this hands down. Can you look up into the sky and see majestic rolling clouds, stars which form constellations, watch a flock of birds fly off in the distance? The overall feel of LOTRO's world is much more alive and immersive than WoWs
1) New Player Experience - Sorry But LOTRO wins hands down. The epic quest movie sequences and story are much better than...umm..well WoW doesn't offer a story for immersion
2) The environment - Again LOTRO wins this hands down. Can you look up into the sky and see majestic rolling clouds, stars which form constellations, watch a flock of birds fly off in the distance? The overall feel of LOTRO's world is much more alive and immersive than WoWs
For me, the fact that WoW offers such 'great' solo play is actually a negative. It causes so few people to learn to play their class correctly for group play its insane. People don't learn about aggro dumping or DPS control or avoiding breaking CC or... or... or... you get my point.
The second M in MMO stands for MULTIPLAYER. And I hate the fact that many MMOs have become solo games on a server. As soon as they announced Companion Characters for SW: TOR, I lost interest in the game right there. No need to group... and thus, no reason for me to buy.
I love to group. I love the social aspect. In short, I'm happier away from games with 'great' solo play.
If you add crafting to the mix that pushes LOTRO past WOW in your points rating.
In my opinion both games are great for different reasons. They offer different gameplay and both are extremely fun.
I bounce around from MMO to MMO because after playing WOW for so long I need something different. At the end of the day I always wind up going back because WOW just has way more content and variety than any other game out there. I'm currently playing LOTRO and it is the most fun I've had in a long time. But I can see the writing on the wall as I approach max level. WOW's endgame content leaves other MMOs in the dust and I guess that's where I am a bit spoiled.
In the end there are reasons to like both games but if I could have only one game - there is more ways to have fun in WOW.
Comments
Great write up. Lotro though is the clear winner for me though. A few things, I have 3 maxed level characters that I got very far with soloing. Lotro does offer housing, although it's fun-ness doesn't last that long; needs more player involvment.The only thing I think held Lotro back from taking a leap over WoW was that it lacks pixie crack; that kind of eye candy that people go gaga over. Colors are muted and there is nothing flashy, mounts is another thing that held it back. I believe that if Lotro offered more creative options for pets, mounts, flying mounts and weapons that it could surpass and reel in a lot of those WoW clingers that just won't let go.
Lotro has to stick to its fan base and I think that is what hurt the game originally because they would not add anything that didn't fit. However, I wouldn't want that changed, it just needed those things above that I mentioned. Also, I just want to say that in comparision to Lotro's vs. WoW world... Lotro has WoW beat 100% in my opinion; in fact for me it has the best looking world of any MMO I have played.
Regardless, Lotro will be F2P and with the world active and lively again I will be going back to play it. ^^
and I showed how Lotro is just as accessable and that the simple analogy doesn't really do what you think it does. Everything you said in your comparison about what makes wow accessible applies equally to lotro.
"That's perfectly true except I clearly pointed out the analogy was about accessibility. WoW is perhaps the most accessible game on the market, you don't have to play for hours on end, you can't get jumped and looted by nasty old pvpers, its pick up and play simplicity. That is what the market wants at the moment, casual gaming and accessibility."
How exactly is that any different than lotro?
I'm not reinforcing the concept that 12 million subs proves wow is awesome, but on the other hand what you are saying simply isn't representative to the situation either.
Group Play
"... Instances, Instances and more instances. World of Warcraft’s approach to the grouping system, amounts to nothing more than jaunts through theme-park style dungeons. ..." 5/10
This is where the Fun part begin, most of WoW Instance are challenging, running an Instance is not that easy for the first time, it does require a Team Coordinating (either on 10 players or 25 players), Good Leadership, concentration and an individual strong understanding on how you play your Role/Class, Tank, Healer, or DPS, once your team/guild successfully clear the Instance, you feel really satisfied, you can hear your team/guild on Ventrillo/Teamspeak, they all happy and yelling, saying good job, nice Heal, etc,
Community
"... In MMORPG land, community is key. World of Warcraft again divides audience with its incessant Chuck Norris gags, duel requests and the general maturity of the populace. While this is the stereotype my experiences with WoW were not exactly like this. I have met mature and immature players, some have annoyed and some have charmed ..."
Any MMORPG with a lot of players most likely will encounter this story, more players more variety people, nothing special on this part ... different MMO, almost same story ...
Great article. I agreed with most of the things the author said and I enjoyed reading it
They got the group and solo the other way around.
LoTRO :
Turbine has been deleting a lot of group quests (such as in Lone Lands). Nobody uses the LFG tool, its all through the shoutbox. It takes hours to get 6 people together in places like Angmar if you're not in a popular kin.
WoW :
The dungeon finder is cool. 11 million people + Cross server grouping.
So, LoTRO should be winning in Solo, WoW in group quests.
Firstly, the major difference between WoW and Lotro is that Lotro doesn't cater to QQ'ing griefers like WoW does.
Secondly, Quantity does not equal Quality when it comes to subscribers.
1. The world in WoW is way to awful compare to LOTRO, cmon man in LOTRO u are living in the Middle Earth, in WoW u are in the middle of ugly places~
and 2. The PvP in LOTRO is much more fun, in WoW u are in a small rooms full of kids with end game gear, which playing always with his mates to kick your ass everytime, cause they know which 4 buttons to push, this is so lame! In LOTRO u have full PvP zone to make epic war PvP! Never seen 50 vs 50 PvP
and the graphics - nothing to compare here!
This is threat is ridicilous - it's like u compared Runescape with Ultima Online
Well I think there are plenty of other things that set the two games apart, but I'm glad you got that off your chest. Not that I can even imagine how someone can grief another player in wow and that the developer support that type of gameplay, but whatever.
Even though that was not my point, you are right that quantity doesn't necessarily mean quality. There are other factors to consider though. Like industry wide praise and recognition of quality, player ratings across many different sites for the same reasons, "best of" awards, etc. Did I just describe wow, lotro or both games? The answer would be both.
So yes, quantity doesn't mean quality just like quantity doesn't mean lack of quality. My point was that wows sub numbers don't prove accessibility was the key as bunny was trying to use analogies to prove.
Lol @ devs who support griefing in WoW.
Go play EvE Online or Lineage 2, I don't think you know what griefing loving developers really are LOL
Surprise surprise, a majority of people are anti-wow on an MMORPG.com article. I'm not surprised but that's ok, it's an opinion piece. The proof is in the facts. Both games are good for their own reasons, but more people enjoy one more than the other. One is going FtP and one is not.
since i've been playing WoW a lot longer than LoTRo, i think WoW is truly the winner, but that's just my opinion. There's something about WoW that i can't understand because i always end up going back to WoW and not to LoTRo
I definitly disagree with the player characters analysis. I always thought LoTRO character models were very ugly and stiff. They might be a little bit more customizable but they are bland in my opinion. The animations completely ruined the feel of combat for me. And WoWs fluid and tight controls have yet to be matched. Lotro characters look like they are sliding to me. Someone else said it perfect earlier in the thread, "Why am I ice skating?".
I also disagree with the group play analysis and your Lotro bias oozes heavily here. One of the biggest problems in MMOs when they got older is less people leveling and it gets harder for peopel to experience appropriate group level content without being power leveled through it.
Blizzards cross realm dungeon tool is simply amazing for letting leveling group up and experience dungeons. If spamming trade for group is the way you prefer things nothing stops you. You mention, raids which have 10 and 25 man variants each with optional hard modes for people who really seek much more challenge, battlegrounds and Arenas, all of which are group content and not just for end game. Battlegrounds give exp and you can run them while leveling up, also level 60 and 70 raids I see getting put together every day in trade chat. And while the 5 man dungeons can be linear they still go well of pulling a player through the story and lore of the game, especially if you bother to read quests and know why you are actually there in the first place. So I will say no thanks to spamming trade and instead get a group almost instantly and experience the lore. I used to be against xrealm dungeons, but I would hate to be without it once I got used to it.
WoWs community can be pretty bad at times, if you read trade chat anyway. For the most part in my random dungeons, especially leveling up, most people are surprisingly chill. You run into a tard here or there but you will in every mmo. If you want to play WoW, roll on the same server as friends, find a guild you fit into well, turn trade chat off and you won't have many complaints about community.
While I was never a fan of the books/movie, LOTRO won me over with its community. As a noob I'd never had a better experience. Any question you had was answered in chat with in a few seconds of you asking it; nobody was rude, insulted you, or made a Chuck Norris joke out of it. Honestly, I don't think I ever came across a person I didn't get along with while playing that game.
how can u compare a pure instance base game to a pure open world based game ?
it cant be done there 2 vastly different types of games . made for 2 vastly different gameing styles . rendering your entire post void.
it would be the same as say what games better table top chess or mario brothers.
Well it surprises me that Lotro wins the Char-category as it was one of the very big weaknesses at the start of the game to have clumy animated ugly looking avatars and classes that are unique but not fun.
Is this really a turn around or have they changed so much?
And there is it, even if a mmorpg fixes stuff its to late bcs you and most/all your friends have already moved away from it and stuck with a new game...
Your only chance is to make it right from the start as they never come back !!!
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
I forgot that i personally like the Lotro-gameworld/landscape much more for the atmosphere and visuals then that from WoW so another point i am contrary to the talk.
"Torquemada... do not implore him for compassion. Torquemada... do not beg him for forgiveness. Torquemada... do not ask him for mercy. Let's face it, you can't Torquemada anything!"
MWO Music Video - What does the Mech say: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FF6HYNqCDLI
Johnny Cash - The Man Comes Around: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Y0x2iwK0BKM
Vanilla Ice's To the Extreme album sold 11 million copies and was the best selling hip hop album of all time when it was released. McDonald's restaraunts boast "billions" served.
Number of sales hardly denote quality. To you and your millions... so what?
So why did you completely leave out the Skirmishes in LoTRO? Or did you never actually try them out to concider them a part of the overall gaming experience?
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Not bad....i do disagree on 2 things:
1) New Player Experience - Sorry But LOTRO wins hands down. The epic quest movie sequences and story are much better than...umm..well WoW doesn't offer a story for immersion
2) The environment - Again LOTRO wins this hands down. Can you look up into the sky and see majestic rolling clouds, stars which form constellations, watch a flock of birds fly off in the distance? The overall feel of LOTRO's world is much more alive and immersive than WoWs
Other than that...i agree with the rest.
emm wait what?
March on! - Lets Invade Pekopon
good points here
World of Warcraft
For me, the fact that WoW offers such 'great' solo play is actually a negative. It causes so few people to learn to play their class correctly for group play its insane. People don't learn about aggro dumping or DPS control or avoiding breaking CC or... or... or... you get my point.
The second M in MMO stands for MULTIPLAYER. And I hate the fact that many MMOs have become solo games on a server. As soon as they announced Companion Characters for SW: TOR, I lost interest in the game right there. No need to group... and thus, no reason for me to buy.
I love to group. I love the social aspect. In short, I'm happier away from games with 'great' solo play.
If you add crafting to the mix that pushes LOTRO past WOW in your points rating.
In my opinion both games are great for different reasons. They offer different gameplay and both are extremely fun.
I bounce around from MMO to MMO because after playing WOW for so long I need something different. At the end of the day I always wind up going back because WOW just has way more content and variety than any other game out there. I'm currently playing LOTRO and it is the most fun I've had in a long time. But I can see the writing on the wall as I approach max level. WOW's endgame content leaves other MMOs in the dust and I guess that's where I am a bit spoiled.
In the end there are reasons to like both games but if I could have only one game - there is more ways to have fun in WOW.
Lotro is such shit that failed, I don't understand why it has become some cult game.
Crap PVP
Bad player models
Few races and class choices
Poor animations
Poor UI
Poor Combat
Boring opening to the game
Have to zone into buildings :
etc etc.
Everyone hated it at launch cause it didn't offer the feel of living in Middle Earth.
I don't like either of these games but WoW is so much better that the crap that is Lotro.