8 hours a week? i loled

Parameter

I don't typically post here, because most of the time its read by blind eyes.  The endless flame wars, the rediculous fanboi rants, the trolls...while all entertaining to read, nothing good ever comes of it.  But when I heard about this whole experience penalty, I just couldn't resist. 

 

For those who don't know - SE has implemented what they are calling the fatigue system - a system whereby they are allowing players to gain experience toward a parcitular job and their physical level for 8 hours.  After these 8 hours are up, you start receiving less xp per kill, per craft, or per gather, until you reach 15 hours.  At 15 hours, you receive ZERO (like, less than 1) experience until the timer resets.  This timer resets at the beginning of every week. 

 

I didn't know companies could commit what could only be classified as suicide over night.  If it was a free service, they might have some leeway as far as restrictions are concerned - but a pay to play format and restricting use?  That doesn't even begin to make sense.  Before you blatently call me a hater - let me say this - me and several of my RL friends had the collectors edition pre-ordered.  We were all very interested in the game, because it looked different, semi-innovotive, and the graphics are sexy as hell.  8 pre-orders cancelled over night.  After browsing a bit, I know we aren't alone.  The reaction to this is probably worse than the reaction to Blizzard's announcement using RealID on their forums and in game - fortunately they wised up and scrapped that 2 days after they announced it.  If you don't know what Im talking about, google it - I can't be assed to find the original link.

 

Anyways, I just thought Id start this up to see where it goes - discuss what you think SE was thinking when they dreamed up this shit.  Or, flame me.  Either way, I won't be wasting my time with a company who sees fit to tell me how long I can play a game.  For that matter, I doubt I'll buy another FF game at all after this move ;]

 

 

edit:  spelling frustrates me.  fixed.

Miles-Prower

what I understand is that this system is setup in such a way that once you start getting 50% less XP you are supposed to switch jobs. At which point the XP will again start at 100% and work its way down. By the time you cycle through all jobs, the original job will be at 100% again.

While this system can be frustrating to people who want to focus on one class, it is possible to "Navigate" around it, sort of speak.

 

~Miles "Tails" Prower out! Catch me if you can!

bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

rmason

yeah this system is about as gay as elton john.

 

i was somewhat interested in the game until I read up about it. I hate crafting/gathering/etc. why would I want to play a game for 15 hours a week in the aspect of the game I like?

 

maybe after they get the numbers of how many pre-orders were canceled or their retail sales tank they will remove it.

 

will wait for gw2 it seems.

valkyriepc

I have easily played more than 15 hours just in 4 days of being off of work and i have not yet hit the fatigue system or surplus. I'm physical level 19 , 14 marauder, 12 lancer, 6 pug and have a few crafting professions up to 6. 

seabeast

No Joy, no glory OP: reference the info or its all....well you know, hear say.

jaxsundane

Originally posted by Parameter

I don't typically post here, because most of the time its read by blind eyes.  The endless flame wars, the rediculous fanboi rants, the trolls...while all entertaining to read, nothing good ever comes of it.  But when I heard about this whole experience penalty, I just couldn't resist. 

 

For those who don't know - SE has implemented what they are calling the fatigue system - a system whereby they are allowing players to gain experience toward a parcitular job and their physical level for 8 hours.  After these 8 hours are up, you start receiving less xp per kill, per craft, or per gather, until you reach 15 hours.  At 15 hours, you receive ZERO (like, less than 1) experience until the timer resets.  This timer resets at the beginning of every week. 

 

I didn't know companies could commit what could only be classified as suicide over night.  If it was a free service, they might have some leeway as far as restrictions are concerned - but a pay to play format and restricting use?  That doesn't even begin to make sense.  Before you blatently call me a hater - let me say this - me and several of my RL friends had the collectors edition pre-ordered.  We were all very interested in the game, because it looked different, semi-innovotive, and the graphics are sexy as hell.  8 pre-orders cancelled over night.  After browsing a bit, I know we aren't alone.  The reaction to this is probably worse than the reaction to Blizzard's announcement using RealID on their forums and in game - fortunately they wised up and scrapped that 2 days after they announced it.  If you don't know what Im talking about, google it - I can't be assed to find the original link.

 

Anyways, I just thought Id start this up to see where it goes - discuss what you think SE was thinking when they dreamed up this shit.  Or, flame me.  Either way, I won't be wasting my time with a company who sees fit to tell me how long I can play a game.  For that matter, I doubt I'll buy another FF game at all after this move ;]

 Wow are you serious, this is the stupidest function I've ever heard of even if the reason is as stated by the first responder.  While people often accuse themepark designed mmo's of being "on rails" I tend to disagree, while playing LOTRO I can chose to play the epic quest line right now or never so my standards obviously aren't very high but this kind of gameplay just irks me to no end.

Systems like this are exactly what originally drove me from COH with the whole exp debt system they use where for each death you earned about half a level of exp dept so that whenever you gained experience after that death you only got half towards the next level half worked off the debt and multiple deaths just kept adding to it to the point that you could be like three or four levels in debt, I hated that system and refuse to play a game with such harsh penalties for death but this is even worse since there is no real good reason for this penalty.

Parameter

 

Originally posted by seabeast

No Joy, no glory OP: reference the info or its all....well you know, hear say.

 

 

The 33 page sticky is hard to miss, I must admit.  If you did indeed miss it, www.google.com is also very difficult to find on the interwebs.

jaxsundane

Originally posted by bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

 So basically it's a system designed to force people who spend lot's of time in the game to have to learn different classes (so as not to level too quickly and burn through the content) not a good sign from a game already being blamed for copy/pasting too much as it is they are basically trying to force people not to level too quick, cheap.....

unbound55

Originally posted by bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

I know I always enjoy playing a game of this type and being forced to play it only in the way the company wants me to play it...

 

Sorry for the sarcasm.  This is just another nail in FF XIV coffin if they had any hope of gaining non-FF fanboy players...

Parameter

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

 So basically it's a system designed to force people who spend lot's of time in the game to have to learn different classes (so as not to level too quickly and burn through the content) not a good sign from a game already being blamed for copy/pasting too much as it is they are basically trying to force people not to level too quick, cheap.....

Yeah - the system as I understand it forces you to play more than one class.  Not to say that is a bad thing per se, but when I level a character I want to level the character I WANT to level.  I don't want to be forced to level multiple characters (in this case, jobs on the same character) at the same time.  To me it sounds like they have absolutely no end-game content in place and have to put limitations on how quickly people max their characters out.  For a poster a few above - that is hear say.

Quicksand

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

 So basically it's a system designed to force people who spend lot's of time in the game to have to learn different classes (so as not to level too quickly and burn through the content) not a good sign from a game already being blamed for copy/pasting too much as it is they are basically trying to force people not to level too quick, cheap.....

Thats what it sounds like, they want to limit how fast people go through the content, thus making it seem like the content takes longer to go through... which is in no way fair for a p2p (IMO).

Silacoid

There is a little bad info here so here is a post from the devs that might clear some things up.  This is the final few paragraphs if you want to know more look up the whole post:

 

"It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum-that is, at a rate of zero-will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

So, it is much deeper than just 15 hours a week and you're done with that job.  

 

Also, the game was DESIGNED FOR CASUAL GAMERS.  This is what they say in their own words:

 

"Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play."

bronzeronin

CoH/V's exp debt system is not at all like how it was stated.  You do incur deft but there has been a cap on it for as long as I have played, the cap is scaled for your level so you can only go into debt so much and if you really want to work it off fast find a lower level player and you exemplar down and your debt just melts away super quick.  I never saw a problem with that system cause you still earn xp so its just a death penalty and not very harsh IMO.  FFXIV's is still an unknown because I keep seeing people saying different things so I am waiting to see what happens after it launches.  Then I will make my decision on the game because there just seems to be to much confusion in the system and has it even been implemented fully yet?  It is not costing me nothing to wait and see what this game will be like and wait for a free trial to give it a test drive, I cant play it at the moment any way because I need to get a better rig.  so I would tell everyone who has question about any of the numerous things that people are declaring gloom and doom for this game to be patient we will know soon enough if it is as bad as some people say it is, I will wait till December at the earliest to try it.  Good luck to all playing at launch and hope it is semi smooth. 

Parameter

Originally posted by Silacoid

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

 Thats about all I got from that above post.  If you have less than 15 hours a week to play the game, by all means sign up for FFXIV.  If you play games as a more dedicated hobby, that statement right there is about the worst thing a game company could tell you. 

 

MMOs are not casual, and never have been.  MMOs are addicting time sinks that are enjoyable to play - I work full time and am taking 18 credit hours working towards a masters degree, and i still somehow manage to play 20+ hours a week.  Can't explain my addiction, nor can the thousands of people who read this site every day, but the bottom line is we keep coming back for more.  When the next big MMO comes out, most of us are probably going to try it.  For a company to dictate how long we can play every week, while still charging us a monthly subscription fee, is blatently wrong.  On that note, Im going to get dinner ;] 

Joseph_Kerr

Hahahaha, thats rich.

Yavin_Prime

First, its a bit of a rumor, its in beta but as many have stated before even WoW had a fatigue system during beta. The system is meant to get testers to try out ALL classes and ALL content not just their favorite. So for all we know the launch servers may not even have it in the game. Don't believe it untill its on SE's webpage.

Quicksand

Originally posted by Silacoid

There is a little bad info here so here is a post from the devs that might clear some things up.  This is the final few paragraphs if you want to know more look up the whole post:

 

"It is worth noting, however, that the reduced rate will also gradually recover while players are engaged in activities that do not yield skill/experience points. In this manner, it is possible for the threshold value to reset completely, even before the completion of the one-week timer.

Any skill points earned in excess of the threshold maximum-that is, at a rate of zero-will be stored as "bonus skill points." These are specific to each class, so players limited to earning bonus skill points still have the freedom to change classes and begin earning skill points again at the maximum rate, allowing their reduced skill rates to recover in the meantime.

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

So, it is much deeper than just 15 hours a week and you're done with that job.  

 

Also, the game was DESIGNED FOR CASUAL GAMERS.  This is what they say in their own words:

 

"Firstly, the concept for FINAL FANTASY XIV was to design a system of character progression that offers meaningful advancement for those with limited time to dedicate to playing. We did not want to create a game that forced people to play for hours on end to see their efforts rewarded. To that end, in addition to the Guardian's Aspect and guildleve systems, we introduced a means of apportioning swifter advancement to shorter periods of play."

I guess if they advertised that before you bought the game then technically its "fair"  so my comment earlier about it not being fair for a p2p game is off, but I still don't care for that kind of system.

Lohdown

I am not defending the implementation of the Fatigue system, but this is a highly misunderstood system and posts like this are only adding to the flames of misinformaion.

It is not 15 hours of gameplay where you automatically drop down to gaining 0 xp.  It is 15 experience thresholds.  One xp threshold was calculated to be the most experience you could possibly gain in one hour.  Once you cross 8 xp thresholds, your xp starts to go down each time you hit another xp threshold for the next 7 until it reaches zero.

You most likely will never hit the xp threshold in one hour.  It could take you 2 hours or it could take you all week to hit the threshold, depending on how you play.  I have not tested this personally, but several people have posted that they are finding this issue to be inconsequential.

Also, the timer does not reset at the beginning of the week.  It resets 1 week from the moment you first start to gain xp at maximum.

terroni

I think they could have easily restated it so that it sounded like you got 200% xp for short periods and got 100% for the rest.

Kaijin2k3

Phys Level 17, Marauder 10, Pugilist 10, Gladiator 10, Miner 9, Blacksmith 8, Armorer 8 in this past first week and weekend.  I still gain XP and SP, even 2k xp per successful craft when doing  a crafting leve.

I work 10 - 7 on the weekdays + 1 hour commute, and played the daylights out of it when I'm home or on the weekends. I don't understand the surplus system at all, really, as I should have hit the xp cap half way into the first week, but I was still getting xp and tons of it from crafting.

Having said that, all I'll add is that I think people on here are making it seem far, far worse than it actually is.

Bloodaxes

So many false information... again /sigh

There's NO fixed time the surplus will get on x class when you have acquired xyz experience in TOTAL.

This means it can take a lot more or less depending on what quests will be implemented at launch. Also the exp true it resets every week BUT ALSO goes down when your not getting exp say when sleeping, afk and so on and so forth.

I don't like it honestly but please don't spout out incorrect information.

Silacoid

Originally posted by Parameter

Originally posted by Silacoid

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

 Thats about all I got from that above post.  If you have less than 15 hours a week to play the game, by all means sign up for FFXIV.  If you play games as a more dedicated hobby, that statement right there is about the worst thing a game company could tell you. 

 

MMOs are not casual, and never have been.  MMOs are addicting time sinks that are enjoyable to play - I work full time and am taking 18 credit hours working towards a masters degree, and i still somehow manage to play 20+ hours a week.  Can't explain my addiction, nor can the thousands of people who read this site every day, but the bottom line is we keep coming back for more.  When the next big MMO comes out, most of us are probably going to try it.  For a company to dictate how long we can play every week, while still charging us a monthly subscription fee, is blatently wrong.  On that note, Im going to get dinner ;] 

Perhaps you should read more closely.  Any time spent doing things other than skilling up with raise how much xp you get for skilling up again before that 1 week time.  You can get back to 100% xp before a week, the week is just a guarantee.  You could run your computer while you are at class and earn some back if you are that addicted.  Also they have said they will adjust the amount of time as they see how fast people use up the time.

 

And your insistence that MMOs can't be casual is ridiculous.  Just because you are an addict who can find 20+ hours a week to play doesn't mean the rest of the world does.  Most people have jobs and KIDS.  Also if you play 20 hours a week, you could find something else to play for those 5 hours. 

Yavin_Prime

Originally posted by terroni

I think they could have easily restated it so that it sounded like you got 200% xp for short periods and got 100% for the rest.

 Thats generaly what it is. You start getting 200% xp from what I understand, then you go down to 175%, then 150% and so on untill you reach 100% xp. The 0 marker as everyone is crying out about is really just 100% xp. Trust me most people will still continue to grind their classe even though their "vitality" isn't charged up. See SE just turned the term around, rather than getting a bonus you get a negative. If they had said "Each week you start with a 200% xp bonus which slowly degrades as you play untill it goes back to a NORMAL 100% xp" then everyone would be ok with it. Its just the use of language, people don't like the term "fatigue" being applied to their gaming experience, or they are misunderstanding the use of the term.

Alanako

I dont know where you read that, but last time i read it, it was not based on time as you explained. You dont start obtainig lesser xp after 8 hours (and zero after 15). You start earning less xp/mob ( or other action) after you got 8x a quantity of xp they calculated based on a character killing mobs very efficiently nonstop for an hour. It didnt matter if you need 8 hours, 5 days or 2 weeks to reach that quantiy. Also if you are past the 8x and you change job, the fisrt one start to reset slowly. A week after you got the first xp of the cycle ir reset to zero too. So its not 8+7 hours, it's 8x+7x (of some xp number) each week max per job plus xp the counters reset being in other jobs

jaxsundane

Originally posted by bronzeronin

CoH/V's exp debt system is not at all like how it was stated.  You do incur deft but there has been a cap on it for as long as I have played, the cap is scaled for your level so you can only go into debt so much and if you really want to work it off fast find a lower level player and you exemplar down and your debt just melts away super quick.  I never saw a problem with that system cause you still earn xp so its just a death penalty and not very harsh IMO.  FFXIV's is still an unknown because I keep seeing people saying different things so I am waiting to see what happens after it launches.  Then I will make my decision on the game because there just seems to be to much confusion in the system and has it even been implemented fully yet?  It is not costing me nothing to wait and see what this game will be like and wait for a free trial to give it a test drive, I cant play it at the moment any way because I need to get a better rig.  so I would tell everyone who has question about any of the numerous things that people are declaring gloom and doom for this game to be patient we will know soon enough if it is as bad as some people say it is, I will wait till December at the earliest to try it.  Good luck to all playing at launch and hope it is semi smooth. 

 From my memory of the game (which could be flawed) the amount of debt you could get while it may have been capped it could easily reach more than one levels worth of debt (trust me my weather girl can attest to it.  And in essence it turned into a system where if one of my goals was to reach max level (which for most people it is) then for any one level I fell into debt in it doubled the time it took to reach that level.

Either way though they are both simply cheap ways to keep people playing for longer and have little to do with enhancing your game experience just the length of time these companies can keep hands in your pocket.