8 hours a week? i loled

bronzeronin

So far this is my only complaint for SE is that they are not very forth coming about some of the aspects of FFXIV.  I don't know if it is a lack of communication on their part due to just wanting to not let out to many game details, not understanding gamers in the west or just no consideration for their potential customers.  Just how they have handled things in the last couple of months, to me anyway, just seems to be bad business and or lack of planning.  But I am still interested in this game and will try it when and if they post a free trial, like I have said because by then they should have most of the major issues worked out, hopefully.

Parameter

Originally posted by Silacoid

Perhaps you should read more closely.  Any time spent doing things other than skilling up with raise how much xp you get for skilling up again before that 1 week time.  You can get back to 100% xp before a week, the week is just a guarantee.  You could run your computer while you are at class and earn some back if you are that addicted.  Also they have said they will adjust the amount of time as they see how fast people use up the time.

 

And your insistence that MMOs can't be casual is ridiculous.  Just because you are an addict who can find 20+ hours a week to play doesn't mean the rest of the world does.  Most people have jobs and KIDS.  Also if you play 20 hours a week, you could find something else to play for those 5 hours. 

 Yeah, I should leave my computer on and logged into the game while I sleep.  Thats a great resolution to an obviously flawed system.  As for my addiction - I don't go it alone.  Video games in general are addicting.  If Im paying to play something, I expect to be able to play it the way I want to play it.  ;]

SoulSurfer

I wonder if they will have double EXP weekends like Aion does? =P

bronzeronin

I am still playing CoH/V and just never have a debt problem.  And here is the way debt work.  

 

 

Debt does not accrue until the character reaches experience level ten. As the character rises in level, the amount of debt he accrues per defeat increases, as does the maximum total amount of debt he can accumulate. A character can have a maximum of five full defeats' worth of debt.

 

quoted from http://paragonwiki.com/wiki/Debt

 

I have been playing close to 48 months because I am about to get that Vet. badge.  

 

You said something about a weather girl, if it was a defender,  there are other builds as well but the defender is a toon that you probably want to group with so you don't die as much, or you may have set up your mission difficulty to high.  Either way you only get deft for 5 deaths per level.  They even have debt badges I had to farm the last one and let my self work up debt then clear it off its for one million debt worked off finally got it, it is called the Exalted badge near the bottom of the page.

http://www.badge-hunter.com/index.php?/page/view_badge_bytype.php?type=4&faction=all

 

edit 5 deaths at a time so you can work some off and if you die again before you level you can get more debt but I have had debt go into the next level because I got it near the last bubble, so it carries over, but you can level with debt.  

Tajnar

Originally posted by Parameter

 

 Yeah, I should leave my computer on and logged into the game while I sleep.  Thats a great resolution to an obviously flawed system.  As for my addiction - I don't go it alone.  Video games in general are addicting.  If Im paying to play something, I expect to be able to play it the way I want to play it.  ;]

 

I'm pretty sure it refreshes while the pc is off. And if you'd take your time and actually read some of the ffxiv forums where people play the beta pretty hardcore and also like two or three people in this thread have mentioned. You'd notice that people played 1 class nonstop got it to around lvl 20 and havn't hit  surplus yet.

And they also stated that they'll rework the system if the community demands it.

adam_nox

I think the system is rather brilliant.  It keeps powergamers from whining a week or two after the game comes out.  It gives serious but casually restricted gamers the ability to keep up in the leveling curve.  Though all of this is going to be irrelevant after a couple months.

Parameter

Originally posted by Tajnar

Originally posted by Parameter

 

 Yeah, I should leave my computer on and logged into the game while I sleep.  Thats a great resolution to an obviously flawed system.  As for my addiction - I don't go it alone.  Video games in general are addicting.  If Im paying to play something, I expect to be able to play it the way I want to play it.  ;]

 

I'm pretty sure it refreshes while the pc is off. And if you'd take your time and actually read some of the ffxiv forums where people play the beta pretty hardcore and also like two or three people in this thread have mentioned. You'd notice that people played 1 class nonstop got it to around lvl 20 and havn't hit  surplus yet.

And they also stated that they'll rework the system if the community demands it.

" -B3 allowed for longer sessions in single sittings.

-In order to promote party play, skill/experience points earned were greatly increased.

-The skill/experience earned from weak enemies was lowered, but had failed to pop up on initial bug reports (and was later fixed via maintenance)."

 

Not sure how much more clear you can get, from the mouth (or keyboard, depending how you look at it) of Komoto himself.  Thanks.

 

rashhero

I'm all for this for the simple reason that we tend to spend way too much time indoors and on the computer these days.

How many of you can honestly say you're in good healthy shape? Not talking about you goto the doctor and he says you're not sick. As in you're in a decent athletic physical condition? As we all should be in someway.

I know I can't. I'm not fat but slightly over weight and tried running a mile just the other day and it was a lot harder than I remember.

stayontarget

Originally posted by Parameter

I don't typically post here, because most of the time its read by blind eyes.  The endless flame wars, the rediculous fanboi rants, the trolls...while all entertaining to read, nothing good ever comes of it.  But when I heard about this whole experience penalty, I just couldn't resist. 

 

For those who don't know - SE has implemented what they are calling the fatigue system - a system whereby they are allowing players to gain experience toward a parcitular job and their physical level for 8 hours.  After these 8 hours are up, you start receiving less xp per kill, per craft, or per gather, until you reach 15 hours.  At 15 hours, you receive ZERO (like, less than 1) experience until the timer resets.  This timer resets at the beginning of every week. 

 

I didn't know companies could commit what could only be classified as suicide over night.  If it was a free service, they might have some leeway as far as restrictions are concerned - but a pay to play format and restricting use?  That doesn't even begin to make sense.  Before you blatently call me a hater - let me say this - me and several of my RL friends had the collectors edition pre-ordered.  We were all very interested in the game, because it looked different, semi-innovotive, and the graphics are sexy as hell.  8 pre-orders cancelled over night.  After browsing a bit, I know we aren't alone.  The reaction to this is probably worse than the reaction to Blizzard's announcement using RealID on their forums and in game - fortunately they wised up and scrapped that 2 days after they announced it.  If you don't know what Im talking about, google it - I can't be assed to find the original link.

 

Anyways, I just thought Id start this up to see where it goes - discuss what you think SE was thinking when they dreamed up this shit.  Or, flame me.  Either way, I won't be wasting my time with a company who sees fit to tell me how long I can play a game.  For that matter, I doubt I'll buy another FF game at all after this move ;]

 

 

edit:  spelling frustrates me.  fixed.

It appears that their are many things in FFXIV that frustrate players,  most but not all is mostly the game engine is more geared towards the PS3 so it does not port very well to the PC.

Kaneth

Originally posted by Terikan3

I think the system is rather brilliant.  It keeps powergamers from whining a week or two after the game comes out.  It gives serious but casually restricted gamers the ability to keep up in the leveling curve.  Though all of this is going to be irrelevant after a couple months.

If the game was buy to play or free to play I might agree, however, everyone playing is paying a monthly sub to access the game. It is completely ridiculous that they would place such a restriction upon paying customers.

If powergamers blow through the content and have nothing to do, that's their choice, if someone takes 2 years to level one character to max level that's their choice. Neither playstyle is more or less correct than the other, but there should not be an arbitrary system that inherently limits the players choice of how they play.

SE is severely limiting their potential customer base. The system reqs and the arbitrary limitation to how many hours per week you can play with drive many people away. I guess SE isn't interested in making a profit.

Parameter

Originally posted by rashhero

I'm all for this for the simple reason that we tend to spend way too much time indoors and on the computer these days.

How many of you can honestly say you're in good healthy shape? Not talking about you goto the doctor and he says you're not sick. As in you're in a decent athletic physical condition? As we all should be in someway.

I know I can't. I'm not fat but slightly over weight and tried running a mile just the other day and it was a lot harder than it I remember.

 lol so true :P  Im actually in pretty decent shape, but Im blessed with a gym at school/work, so I can fit it into my schedule while still playing alot of video games.  I hear you though, obesity is everywhere these days ;/

Isane

Originally posted by jaxsundane

Originally posted by bios5300

Just so everyone knows its 15 hours per class.  Let's say that you do a pugilist for 15 hours, then a lancer for 15 hours, then a conjuror for 15 hours.  That's 45 hours in a week.  You earned xp the whole time.  Every game has an xp modifier for not playing, whether its double xp for a certain number of kills or whatever it is.  The only difference is with FFXIV, after the 15 hours of one class, you get zero.  So the smart thing to do is if you are going to play a lot, is to just change classes.

 So basically it's a system designed to force people who spend lot's of time in the game to have to learn different classes (so as not to level too quickly and burn through the content) not a good sign from a game already being blamed for copy/pasting too much as it is they are basically trying to force people not to level too quick, cheap.....

Basically the system is classless.... you can take skills from other classes and use them in your active build. This system is very very nice and adds a lot to gameplay.

For the fools who think they have a great hate starter , you have missed the point. The variety the Physical level and Class Levels with shared skills system is a real breath of fresh air. Give player lots to think about to do and adds some real variety to your charachter.

adam_nox

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Terikan3

I think the system is rather brilliant.  It keeps powergamers from whining a week or two after the game comes out.  It gives serious but casually restricted gamers the ability to keep up in the leveling curve.  Though all of this is going to be irrelevant after a couple months.

If the game was buy to play or free to play I might agree, however, everyone playing is paying a monthly sub to access the game. It is completely ridiculous that they would place such a restriction upon paying customers.

If powergamers blow through the content and have nothing to do, that's their choice, if someone takes 2 years to level one character to max level that's their choice. Neither playstyle is more or less correct than the other, but there should not be an arbitrary system that inherently limits the players choice of how they play.

SE is severely limiting their potential customer base. The system reqs and the arbitrary limitation to how many hours per week you can play with drive many people away. I guess SE isn't interested in making a profit.

If you want to play without regard for everyone you are sharing a game world with, play a single player game.  This reminds me of people who complain about 'forced' grouping and like to solo in an rpg all day.  It just makes no sense.  You are on the server, you are sharing it with others. 

Isane

Originally posted by Kaneth

Originally posted by Terikan3

I think the system is rather brilliant.  It keeps powergamers from whining a week or two after the game comes out.  It gives serious but casually restricted gamers the ability to keep up in the leveling curve.  Though all of this is going to be irrelevant after a couple months.

If the game was buy to play or free to play I might agree, however, everyone playing is paying a monthly sub to access the game. It is completely ridiculous that they would place such a restriction upon paying customers.

If powergamers blow through the content and have nothing to do, that's their choice, if someone takes 2 years to level one character to max level that's their choice. Neither playstyle is more or less correct than the other, but there should not be an arbitrary system that inherently limits the players choice of how they play.

SE is severely limiting their potential customer base. The system reqs and the arbitrary limitation to how many hours per week you can play with drive many people away. I guess SE isn't interested in making a profit.

If you had a clue you may have a point , the system is rather clever and gives all player types , the ability to plat together whilst alowing the power gamers to do just that. You need skills from other classes to be effective in the powergaming type arena so it is just a fact you need other skills.

That is the game, as it has been designed having played most if not all MMOs that have been recently released a lot of people more than less will really like this system, choice and variety allows for a lot of flexibility even from a powergaming aspect. To powerlevel effectivley you need skills from other classes .... the pace of the game also means their is a lot of downtime so the limmits are not a real issue.

grapevine

Originally posted by Terikan3

I think the system is rather brilliant.  It keeps powergamers from whining a week or two after the game comes out.  It gives serious but casually restricted gamers the ability to keep up in the leveling curve.  Though all of this is going to be irrelevant after a couple months.

 

That's a very short term view.  Once people have played for a while it also means its going to be next to impossible for people to catch up, with those you have played longer.

 

Its a limiting mechanic, for people to play what and how they want to, along with adding a (mostly likely unintentional) mechanic that is likely to lead to elitism.

Aericyn

The system is not nearly as frightening or doom and gloom as the OP and other posts on the Internet make it sound.

I was pretty skeptical and upset during rumors and poor info from Square. But in actual practice it's different and unnoticed through today.

From my understanding it's a XP threshold per hour with 8 thresholds. No idea what it is, but I haven't hit even the first one during OB. This is likely going to hit the hardcore XP per hour folks - like I don't know gold spammers. heh hopefully anyhow.

Seems all you have to do is stop playing, go to bed for the night and it drops (resets) to normal. Unless you pass the first threshold.  Or play another class.

Not fully defending FF14, yet still buying it at this point - annoyed with the bad interpretations in forums. Perhaps it might get ugly after Physical/Class 20 we shall see... 16/13 with highest now.

geldonyetich

Seeing how we've got a sticky thread about the surplus experience here and a warning that anyone who posts messages about topics we've got stickies about will have that thread locked and the poster warned there, I'm betting that this will be the fate of this thread.

However, I'll say this much for it: i've been playing for well over 100 hours this week, and I haven't ran into fatigue once since I'm an altaholic.  I hear fatigue is reduced by playing other jobs, so who knows?  Maybe I could have got three classes from 1 to 18 in a week.  It seems to me that the fatigue system is very weak.

As for Guildleves, I really found a wealth of things to do other than Guidleves.  Without Guildleves, it's basically Final Fantasy XI's model of progression, which works fine.

heartless

You would be gimping yourself by concentrating only on one class anyway. Since you can mix certain abilities from different classes, it's actually beneficial to level up a few classes together.

So while the whole fatigue or whatever system is lame, it actually works out for the best.

skoreanime

While this system is only something we can make judgement about after the games been out for a few months, there is an obvious flaw to it.

The PS3 players will be wanting to catch up to the PC players asap.  This system kills off that idea completely, leaving the PS3 players to always be a step behind.

Wolfenpride

OP didn't really explain the system accurately.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=abE09-tqhoM

http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/291050/FFXIV-Tactics-Understanding-the-Fatigue-System.html

valkyriepc

Originally posted by Parameter

Originally posted by Silacoid

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

 Thats about all I got from that above post.  If you have less than 15 hours a week to play the game, by all means sign up for FFXIV.  If you play games as a more dedicated hobby, that statement right there is about the worst thing a game company could tell you. 

 

MMOs are not casual, and never have been.  MMOs are addicting time sinks that are enjoyable to play - I work full time and am taking 18 credit hours working towards a masters degree, and i still somehow manage to play 20+ hours a week.  Can't explain my addiction, nor can the thousands of people who read this site every day, but the bottom line is we keep coming back for more.  When the next big MMO comes out, most of us are probably going to try it.  For a company to dictate how long we can play every week, while still charging us a monthly subscription fee, is blatently wrong.  On that note, Im going to get dinner ;] 

Have you even played FFXIV yet? Physical level means jack shit. All it is, is stat points. And i can tell you, from level 1 physical level to level 19 physical level i have not seem much of an increase in anything except my health because my vit is higher. Your job class, I.E. skill points are what determines everything. Your skills, how your stats from your physical level effect you and so on and so forth. The fatigue system is not harsh at all, and if you'd managed to play the game instead of bitch about it you might have actually noticed that. I have not played at all today due to football :P, but i can tell you from thursday to saturday i have played much much much more than 15 hours on a single character and have yet to notice the fatigue system at all. I am still leveling at a quick rate on my physical level, and have not reached the surplus system yet as well. 

So all you "hardcore" gamers need to stop bitching and actually play the game. If you're not, you have no right to comment on a system you obviously have no clue about and haven't even experienced.

Parameter

Originally posted by valkyriepc

Originally posted by Parameter

Originally posted by Silacoid

The experience point threshold, however, is unrelated to class, and switching classes will have no effect on the decreasing rate of earnable experience."

 

 Thats about all I got from that above post.  If you have less than 15 hours a week to play the game, by all means sign up for FFXIV.  If you play games as a more dedicated hobby, that statement right there is about the worst thing a game company could tell you. 

 

MMOs are not casual, and never have been.  MMOs are addicting time sinks that are enjoyable to play - I work full time and am taking 18 credit hours working towards a masters degree, and i still somehow manage to play 20+ hours a week.  Can't explain my addiction, nor can the thousands of people who read this site every day, but the bottom line is we keep coming back for more.  When the next big MMO comes out, most of us are probably going to try it.  For a company to dictate how long we can play every week, while still charging us a monthly subscription fee, is blatently wrong.  On that note, Im going to get dinner ;] 

Have you even played FFXIV yet? Physical level means jack shit. All it is, is stat points. And i can tell you, from level 1 physical level to level 19 physical level i have not seem much of an increase in anything except my health because my vit is higher. Your job class, I.E. skill points are what determines everything. Your skills, how your stats from your physical level effect you and so on and so forth. The fatigue system is not harsh at all, and if you'd managed to play the game instead of bitch about it you might have actually noticed that. I have not played at all today due to football :P, but i can tell you from thursday to saturday i have played much much much more than 15 hours on a single character and have yet to notice the fatigue system at all. I am still leveling at a quick rate on my physical level, and have not reached the surplus system yet as well. 

So all you "hardcore" gamers need to stop bitching and actually play the game. If you're not, you have no right to comment on a system you obviously have no clue about and haven't even experienced.

 I love fanbois.

gauge2k3

To be fair, it's 15 hours per class.  And it's 15 hours of being in combat.  So all the waiting in between fights doesn't count.

Having said that, it's still the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.  The legitimacy for paying 15 a month is for updates AND bandwidth.  You are paying to use the service only have it restricted.  While you can play another class, some people don't want to, and it's the same as not being able to play to them.  Apparently this crowd is so large that it overpowers the crowd that doesn't mind.  Yet, still, the fanboys yell hater.

If 100 people disgaree and one person agrees, the one person is not "right".  Any philosopher will tell you views on right and wrong are most often decided upon by the number of people believing either side.  As there is no all encompassing judge of correct and incorrect, all religion aside.

So to call the MASSIVE amount of people who are upset by this haters, is just, silly.  Also, regardless of whether you like it, think it's just ok, or hate it, you can clearly agree this is like commiting MMO suicide from a PR perspective.  If you can't, you are delusional.

Parameter

Originally posted by gauge2k3

To be fair, it's 15 hours per class.  And it's 15 hours of being in combat.  So all the waiting in between fights doesn't count.

Having said that, it's still the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.  The legitimacy for paying 15 a month is for updates AND bandwidth.  You are paying to use the service only have it restricted.  While you can play another class, some people don't want to, and it's the same as not being able to play to them.  Apparently this crowd is so large that it overpowers the crowd that doesn't mind.  Yet, still, the fanboys yell hater.

If 100 people disgaree and one person agrees, the one person is not "right".  Any philosopher will tell you views on right and wrong are most often decided upon by the number of people believing either side.  As there is no all encompassing judge of correct and incorrect, all religion aside.

So to call the MASSIVE amount of people who are upset by this haters, is just, silly.  Also, regardless of whether you like it, think it's just ok, or hate it, you can clearly agree this is like commiting MMO suicide from a PR perspective.  If you can't, you are delusional.

 I also love realists.  Well said.

Alanako

Originally posted by Parameter

Originally posted by gauge2k3

To be fair, it's 15 hours per class.  And it's 15 hours of being in combat.  So all the waiting in between fights doesn't count.

Having said that, it's still the dumbest thing I have ever heard of.  The legitimacy for paying 15 a month is for updates AND bandwidth.  You are paying to use the service only have it restricted.  While you can play another class, some people don't want to, and it's the same as not being able to play to them.  Apparently this crowd is so large that it overpowers the crowd that doesn't mind.  Yet, still, the fanboys yell hater.

If 100 people disgaree and one person agrees, the one person is not "right".  Any philosopher will tell you views on right and wrong are most often decided upon by the number of people believing either side.  As there is no all encompassing judge of correct and incorrect, all religion aside.

So to call the MASSIVE amount of people who are upset by this haters, is just, silly.  Also, regardless of whether you like it, think it's just ok, or hate it, you can clearly agree this is like commiting MMO suicide from a PR perspective.  If you can't, you are delusional.

 I also love realists.  Well said.

its not 15 hours per job, its until you earn the top xp they settle for a week per job, plus any amount you got extra for resting that job. the vast mayority of players wont be near that amount in a week even for only one job. and if you insist on playing only one job, you better choose anothe game, because you are going to be severely gimped and no one would have an use for you character at higher lvls