It's hilarious that people are actually wasting effort to support a system that limits your play. I don't care how much you can polish it, but polishing a turd is still a turd. Here is an idea, REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not. Come on, If you like the system, fine, I don't mind the token system in Vindictus that limits your play but don't try to sell it to me like I should be happy it exists. A pay to play should NEVER LIMIT a players play style.
Exactly.
I personally believe it should be a breach of contract when they put limits on gametime played vs. a monthly sub. You payed for a month, you should get a month of play. Play for MMORPGS is growth/levels for your character. When you limit that characters growth/levels you are in breach of contract. Unless the contract was specifically written with the developers well being in mind and not the player. In which case I suggest...
Everyone Read The Contract
I also believe it should be unlawful for there to be a contract which requires you to pay for a full month of play =
43,829.0639 minutes
when all they are providing you with is the ability to "play" for far less than that.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
It's hilarious that people are actually wasting effort to support a system that limits your play. I don't care how much you can polish it, but polishing a turd is still a turd. Here is an idea, REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not. Come on, If you like the system, fine, I don't mind the token system in Vindictus that limits your play but don't try to sell it to me like I should be happy it exists. A pay to play should NEVER LIMIT a players play style.
Exactly.
I personally believe it should be a breach of contract when they put limits on gametime played vs. a monthly sub. You payed for a month, you should get a month of play. Play for MMORPGS is growth/levels for your character. When you limit that characters growth/levels you are in breach of contract. Unless the contract was specifically written with the developers well being in mind and not the player. In which case I suggest...
Everyone Read The Contract
I also believe it should be unlawful for there to be a contract which requires you to pay for a full month of play =
43,829.0639 minutes
when all they are providing you with is the ability to "play" for far less than that.
I think you're confusing a lot of issues.
You can log on and you can "play" your character. You equate paying to play as getting XP. Capping XP doesn't not limit your play, because your capped class can still kill stuff, can still switch classes, can craft, can explore, can do whatever you want in game. Just because that one class (out of 18) is no longer receiving xp becuase you chose to grind hours and hours on end, does not mean you're not getting your money's worth.
The fact that you know in advance that that's the system in place puts you on notice. In contract law there is a saying "Caveat emptor" Let the buyer beware.
The game costs 12.99 a month and it offers a lot of things, not just xp. It's a service for which you DECIDE to pay. If something about the service is not to your liking, then you don't pay. You're not forced to pay. And no, you don't have a constitutional or human right to get xp all the time. This game doesn't offer that feature.... so......
It's hilarious that people are actually wasting effort to support a system that limits your play. I don't care how much you can polish it, but polishing a turd is still a turd. Here is an idea, REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not. Come on, If you like the system, fine, I don't mind the token system in Vindictus that limits your play but don't try to sell it to me like I should be happy it exists. A pay to play should NEVER LIMIT a players play style.
Exactly. I personally believe it should be a breach of contract when they put limits on gametime played vs. a monthly sub. You payed for a month, you should get a month of play. Play for MMORPGS is growth/levels for your character. When you limit that characters growth/levels you are in breach of contract. Unless the contract was specifically written with the developers well being in mind and not the player. In which case I suggest... Everyone Read The Contract I also believe it should be unlawful for there to be a contract which requires you to pay for a full month of play =
43,829.0639 minutes when all they are providing you with is the ability to "play" for far less than that.
I think you're confusing a lot of issues. You can log on and you can "play" your character. You equate paying to play as getting XP. Capping XP doesn't not limit your play, because your capped class can still kill stuff, can still switch classes, can craft, can explore, can do whatever you want in game. Just because that one class (out of 18) is no longer receiving xp becuase you chose to grind hours and hours on end, does not mean you're not getting your money's worth. The fact that you know in advance that that's the system in place puts you on notice. In contract law there is a saying "Caveat emptor" Let the buyer beware. The game costs 12.99 a month and it offers a lot of things, not just xp. It's a service for which you DECIDE to pay. If something about the service is not to your liking, then you don't pay. You're not forced to pay. And no, you don't have a constitutional or human right to get xp all the time. This game doesn't offer that feature.... so......
I'm not confused at all. I know, and they know, exactly what they are doing. That is limiting your characters growth in the only legal ways that are available. This prolongs peoples play that are psychologically determined to get their toons to the highest cap. It's brilliant for a business strategy but it sure sucks ninja monkey netherregions for the players. Once the shine wears off from the game being "new" then you will see droves of people dumping it in favor of TOR which is cooking along as we speak. That is my prediction and you can quote me on that if you'd lke xD
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
It's hilarious that people are actually wasting effort to support a system that limits your play. I don't care how much you can polish it, but polishing a turd is still a turd. Here is an idea, REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not. Come on, If you like the system, fine, I don't mind the token system in Vindictus that limits your play but don't try to sell it to me like I should be happy it exists. A pay to play should NEVER LIMIT a players play style.
im going to go out and a limb and probably get flamed for this, but dont all games do this to some extent?
world of warcraft: I'm lvl 60! yay! ive done pvp, we have beaten onyxia( which our guild was the 3rd to do worldwide), and were waiting for molten core to open up. what do we do? i dont want to pvp, and i really dont want to run brs or brd every night. why is there a time limit on how often we can kill this stupid dragon? guess ill go lvl another class and do the same stuff over again. i have to wait 2 years before the first expansion is released and lvl cap increased? ok. is this not a form of limitation?
Age of conan: same thing pretty much. have to wait on instance timers to be reset before i can do them again. when i reach max lvl, start another char. waiting for expansions and lvl increase.
FFXI: timers on certain bosses. waiting on expansions and lvl increases. at least you didnt have to make a whole new character to play another class.
LOTRO: raid lock, what to do in mean time? ( never played this game, but from my readings its still pretty much the same as above)
i wont keep listing games but its been like this in most pve mmo's ive played. so people who have been playing mmo's, have always been on a limit system in some form or another. Now that ffxiv add's it to lvling its a big issue? its like the same difference? if a put a mcdonalds hamburger in a burgerking sack, does it change the burger inside? its still the same burger just its apperence is different. will it taste different? some will tell you yes, some will tell you no. funny how the mind percieves things isnt it?
so pretty much alot of the pay to play games out today impose some sort of limitation to the player. why arent those forums blowing up? why is it so important to lvl up to the max lvl as soon as possible? no one is trying to sell it to you, just that certain people can actually see the beauty behind its mechanics while others cant. They just want to give you a pair of glasses to try to help you see better. maybe you dont like to wear glasses cause they make you look funny or they annoy you?
Age of conan: same thing pretty much. have to wait on instance timers to be reset before i can do them again. when i reach max lvl, start another char. waiting for expansions and lvl increase.
I don't know how you can say AOC limits players ability to level when they give you tons of xp in instances and there are tons of instances, even with timers that prevent people from FARMING them. They even go so far as to give you "offline" levels which is a ridiculously fast way to level in AOC. I'm not saying I'm a super supporter of AOC but I don't think it contains any limits on what a player can do with their character whatsoever. None.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Age of conan: same thing pretty much. have to wait on instance timers to be reset before i can do them again. when i reach max lvl, start another char. waiting for expansions and lvl increase.
I don't know how you can say AOC limits players ability to level when they give you tons of xp in instances and there are tons of instances, even with timers that prevent people from FARMING them. They even go so far as to give you "offline" levels which is a ridiculously fast way to level in AOC. I'm not saying I'm a super supporter of AOC but I don't think it contains any limits on what a player can do with their character whatsoever. None.
i never said they limit you ability to lvl, im saying they do have limitations. not being able to farm an instance is a form of limitation. you kinda contridicted yourself there.
i never said they limit you ability to lvl, im saying they do have limitations. not being able to farm an instance is a form of limitation. you kinda contridicted yourself there.
No i didn't. I specifically said there are tons of instances. They don't put a timer on them all at the same time. To allow groups or guilds to "farm" a specific dungeon wouldn't be very nice for the other players would it? That's the AOC community for you. Consequently the community of AOC is widely regarded as one of the worst in all of PC gaming.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
i never said they limit you ability to lvl, im saying they do have limitations. not being able to farm an instance is a form of limitation. you kinda contridicted yourself there.
No i didn't. I specifically said there are tons of instances. They don't put a timer on them all at the same time. To allow groups or guilds to "farm" a specific dungeon wouldn't be very nice for the other players would it? That's the AOC community for you. Consequently the community of AOC is widely regarded as one of the worst in all of PC gaming.
played a hox to 80. quit for a while. came back and they gave you a free character you could auto lvl to 50 so long as u had a lvl 80 char already. something along those lines. all raid instances were on a raid lock timer. this was about a month before the expansion came out so i have no idea about those instances. it was like monday: kyliki, vistrix, and the giant worm. i wish i could say i was joking but, right after those were done, they were redone on alts. tuesday: wing 1 and 2. after those were done on mains, you do them again on an alt. this was the reality of AOC for endgame right before expansion.
The fact that it would be unfair for guilds to farm raid instances i agree with. this is why there is a TIME LIMIT on how often that single character can do that dungeon. That still puts a limit on your main character does it not? your paying to play yet your main character is limited by a timer on raid dungeons.
While every game controls how fast someone can level to max (as stated in the video it is commonly through a steep leveling curve) the limit is traditionally on the number of played hours it takes to reach max.
It seems this system takes it a step further by controlling the number of days/weeks it takes to reach max level.
In my opinion this serves the primary purpose ensuring that the developers have time to complete content so no matter how much time someone has to devote to playing they won't reach a high level before SE is ready for them to.
While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah...
as to their ascertain that this is revolutionary I am not so sure it seems it should be an improvement to the player to be revolutionary but then again I guess an improvement for the Dev is revolutionary too.
with these limitations I sure hope all content is there when people start to reach end game. if end game is incomplete SE will have no excuses.
That still puts a limit on your main character does it not? your paying to play yet your main character is limited by a timer on raid dungeons.
Not at all. You are confusing character limits with individual raid timers and anti-farming countermeasures. Your character can still level away as much as you want it to whereever you want it to besides places that need to be shared as a gaming community. That is not limited at all. The fact that certain people would choose to scroll through these raids endlessly repeating them doesn't sound like much fun anyhow xD These reasons and the stinky community are why I personally don't play it.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
This is a secret ploy by SE to make you skill-up forever, so they can make more money. The video even said so straight up lol... But it's nice to have all the stuff on one character instead of 50 million alts.
REWARD players who change classes isntead of LIMITING ones that do not.
This. I do not care much for the system as I haven't actually seen the fatigue kicking in. But I can imagine the following issues:
- Player starting to play later might get frustrated at not being able to "catch up"
- Players who play casual will be gimped for not having been forced to play more than 1 class
- Grind will seem like a longer chore as you stay in the same levelrange and meet a lot of the same monsters. (Meaning it takes longer before you see new refreshing content)
I can see where SE is coming from though. But the quote says it all
Honestly I am starting to think SE should do just like AoC did. They should remove this system for the first 2 months. Let all these freaks power level themselves to cap in 2 weeks, get bored and they will all go away. Then SE can put this back in since nobody that is left will care either way since it doesn't effect them anyway, and we can all live happily forever after. Well all except the power freaks who are so bent out of shape about a system that has yet to even effect them anyway. Seriously, are any of you bitching about this system even planning on playing this game when it goes live? You do know it hasn't gone live yet right? You do know your arguing about something that hasn't even been put in freaking place yet right?? A SYSTEM NOBODY HAS SEEN EFFECT THEM YET! Honestly, I'd call some of you stupid if I thought you smart enough to even know what that word meant.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Honestly I am starting to think SE should do just like AoC did. They should remove this system for the first 2 months. Let all these freaks power level themselves to cap in 2 weeks, get bored and they will all go away. Then SE can put this back in since nobody that is left will care either way since it doesn't effect them anyway, and we can all live happily forever after. Well all except the power freaks who are so bent out of shape about a system that has yet to even effect them anyway. Seriously, are any of you bitching about this system even planning on playing this game when it goes live? You do know it hasn't gone live yet right? You do know your arguing about something that hasn't even been put in freaking place yet right?? A SYSTEM NOBODY HAS SEEN EFFECT THEM YET! Honestly, I'd call some of you stupid if I thought you smart enough to even know what that word meant.
Based on your logic here you should not be able to defend the mechanic either and you dont know if it will effect you.
We can however form an opinion based on the information they have provided, the video provided by the OP being one source.
and while I am a fairly casual player most of the time I can see where this feature as described would be an issue for me.
This system dose not seem revolutionary in any way shape or form.
I got an amazing idea lets make it so people stop getting exp at a certain point and force them to do somthing else becuase we have to make sure everyone is equal.
Or lets make it so we can dictate the amount of time it takes to level up so we have time to fill our game with content while they pay us.
edit: I'm not done ranting, this is retarded I didn't even know such a system existed in this game. Why would you ever make it so the player cannot level their main class in a game where the main goal is to LEVEL. WTF I loved ffxi, and I have been keeping my eye on this game even though I didn't like it so far. but this is STUPID WTF they truly have no idea what made their first game good in the first place my god how did they screw shit up this bad.
edit 2: So if I set aside a day with my friends to go and level I will in half a day or so not be able to get anymore exp? And not just for the day for a whole fucking week? WTF. And why? because other people are not leveling as fast as me? WHY DO I CARE HOW FAST SOMEONE ELSE CAN LEVEL. it's a pve game who gives a damn if some random person levels up crazy fast. There are only two reasons I see for this system, 1 they want to squeeze as much money out of you they can, 2 they havn't finished their game. WTF.
O and if I figure out a way to exp really fast then thats just stopping me from playing even sooner, why do I want to play a game which will be like o sorry you can't level your main class anymore this week. O don't worry it's not like this game isn't about leveling or anything, how about you go outside and never come back to this game the whole week or play another game or just unsub because you can't play this game when you want to.
I agree. I dont get the point of this system. Why do anybody care how fast somebody else can lvl?
Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one. I mean, isn't this just a way to give "casuals" a completely useless achievement of reaching physical level max. While everyone else realizes to be useful you need an optimal mixture of disciplines and to get that mix you are going to have to grind through the same content over and over again to raise up the other "optional choices" so you can have the "freedom" to get the right mix of disciplines.
I could be way off (really, I'm not sure), as this is just based on watching the high quality video, as I haven't been following ffxiv since e3 and am not a fan of the ff series.
Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one.
Wrong. They, like every mmo designer out there, decided it should take "200 days" to reach max level. If they remove the Fatigue system, and go like every other MMO, they'll crank up XP required per level so it take a hardcore player about 200 days.
Read again what I just said: even if they remove fatigue system, you will NOT be able to reach max level faster.
However, casual player who don't play as much as hardcore player will find the grinding absolutly horrendous as they take 2000 days to reach max level. So, again, they didnt turn 20 days into 200, they actually did the opposite, 2000 days into 200.
I thought that the movie in OP showed that quite clearly -.- why do I feel like I need to explain it agan >_<;
Also, if you cannot grasp why this system is beneficial for everyone, you are, most likely, an egocentric selfish solo player that would be better off playing a single player RPG.
Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one.
Wrong. They, like every mmo designer out there, decided it should take "200 days" to reach max level. If they remove the Fatigue system, and go like every other MMO, they'll crank up XP required per level so it take a hardcore player about 200 days.
Read again what I just said: even if they remove fatigue system, you will NOT be able to reach max level faster.
However, casual player who don't play as much as hardcore player will find the grinding absolutly horrendous as they take 2000 days to reach max level. So, again, they didnt turn 20 days into 200, they actually did the opposite, 2000 days into 200.
I thought that the movie in OP showed that quite clearly -.- why do I feel like I need to explain it agan >_<;
Also, if you cannot grasp why this system is beneficial for everyone, you are, most likely, an egocentric selfish solo player that would be better off playing a single player RPG.
The difference between a leveling curve and this system is that a leveling curve can only control how many hours it will take to reach max level. the player can determine how those hours are broken up so for simplicity sake say it takes 360 hours to reach max level, if a player devoted 24 hours per day to playing they could reach max level in 15 days
now in this system again for simplicity sake say it takes 15 hours to reach the xp cutoff (8 hours until decline and not sure on the math for the rest) that limits it to 15 hours in a week. So no matter how much time someone plays per day it would still take 24 weeks to achieve that 360 hours of experience gain.
in other words they can control how many weeks it takes to level regardless of how many hours someone has to devote.
look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.
In my opinion this is only really beneficial for SE.
look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.
"While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah..."
hmm, ok. First, a correction: its 8hours of full XP and 15hours before you gain no benefit. so at 8hours a day, it'd take you 2 days of playing before reaching the "no xp gain threshold". Still going with your 3 classes example above, thats 6 days @ 8 hour a day before your 3 main classes are capped. Or is it? by the 6th day, your threshold will have lowered on your first class, meaning you can still grind a bit more. Lets say a 4 day break lowered it enough to allow you to play another 8 hours. so you have a 7th day worth of playing here. And on the 8th day? well, Fatigue system reset itself every week, so you can do another full week of 8hour per day grinding on your 3 main class.
Now, I do get your point. its a valid one: system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.
But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.
look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.
"While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah..."
hmm, ok. First, a correction: its 8hours of full XP and 15hours before you gain no benefit. so at 8hours a day, it'd take you 2 days of playing before reaching the "no xp gain threshold". Still going with your 3 classes example above, thats 6 days @ 8 hour a day before your 3 main classes are capped. Or is it? by the 6th day, your threshold will have lowered on your first class, meaning you can still grind a bit more. Lets say a 4 day break lowered it enough to allow you to play another 8 hours. so you have a 7th day worth of playing here. And on the 8th day? well, Fatigue system reset itself every week, so you can do another full week of 8hour per day grinding on your 3 main class.
Now, I do get your point. its a valid one: system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.
But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.
maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?
Now, I do get your point. its a valid one: system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.
But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.
maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?
I guess that's my thing, if playing a single class or even two classes is viable then it would be better to stick to those two classes, which would make this more limiting, if however you need three or more to be viable then it would be less limiting. But either way it gives the perception of being limited which in general people do not like. In addition if three classes are required or even two the benefits of this system to a very casual player become miniscule which still to me looks like it is only a true benefit to SE
maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?
I don't think I can say yes or no to that question, might be subject to one belief of what is better. However, I can fill you in data to make your own conclusion:
"Classe" are actually called discipline. You change discipline by simply changing weapon. even gatherring and crafting are made into discipline. you equip a mining pick, you are a miner.
Its important to remind its a discipline and not a classe or job like FFXI because when you think class and job, you think more level mean more hp, more str, ect...
A rank in a discipline give you attack move, spells, buff... but will do nothing on your actual power. Physical level, which are not tied to discipline, will give you HP, MP, Strenght, Dextirity, elemental resist and potency, ect...
Physical level xp gained is also tied to fatigue system, independant from discipline fatigue. I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that physical level fatigue take longer than discipline fatigue to reach the "no xp threshold"
Once you get a Discipline to rank 10, you can equip rank 1-10 actions from any discipline you already leveled (there is some restriction to balance it out). Number of action you can equip is limited by action point.
At end game, people will likely want max rank on most discipline as having the ability to mix match action to face a specific chalenge will likely be key to wining hardcore content.
edit:
Casual player will have less versatility than someone who managed to rank more discipline, but he will be able to participate and enjoy those end game events at about the same time as the hardcore one, not 2 year later.
At first I did nto like it but now it seems to make alot of sense especially in crafting because you will need to learn a little bit of other crafts in order to progress if you are doing it all by yourself. So technically I can get to level 15 and rest my guy then go work on something else like my crafting professions. Some are just mad because SE won't let them rush through the game like they do in every other mmo. Also the system they have in place doesn't force players to play everyday to justify that monthly fee. I like it.
The only ones that are going to complain, are those that can play alot in a day, and want to reach end game level as fast as possible. For me and my wife this system is awesome. We both take our time, explore and see all we can see. Having to play more classes is a bonus for us IMO. Hell I can t count how many times is some games we would look at each other and say damn I wish I could turn off exp. I can almost guarentee we ll never or very rarely get to the point were not gaining some exp. If I do I ll barely even notice it because I don t look at my exp bar, never have never will.
Comments
Exactly.
I personally believe it should be a breach of contract when they put limits on gametime played vs. a monthly sub. You payed for a month, you should get a month of play. Play for MMORPGS is growth/levels for your character. When you limit that characters growth/levels you are in breach of contract. Unless the contract was specifically written with the developers well being in mind and not the player. In which case I suggest...
Everyone Read The Contract
I also believe it should be unlawful for there to be a contract which requires you to pay for a full month of play =
43,829.0639 minutes
when all they are providing you with is the ability to "play" for far less than that.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
I think you're confusing a lot of issues.
You can log on and you can "play" your character. You equate paying to play as getting XP. Capping XP doesn't not limit your play, because your capped class can still kill stuff, can still switch classes, can craft, can explore, can do whatever you want in game. Just because that one class (out of 18) is no longer receiving xp becuase you chose to grind hours and hours on end, does not mean you're not getting your money's worth.
The fact that you know in advance that that's the system in place puts you on notice. In contract law there is a saying "Caveat emptor" Let the buyer beware.
The game costs 12.99 a month and it offers a lot of things, not just xp. It's a service for which you DECIDE to pay. If something about the service is not to your liking, then you don't pay. You're not forced to pay. And no, you don't have a constitutional or human right to get xp all the time. This game doesn't offer that feature.... so......
cool story, bro
I'm not confused at all. I know, and they know, exactly what they are doing. That is limiting your characters growth in the only legal ways that are available. This prolongs peoples play that are psychologically determined to get their toons to the highest cap. It's brilliant for a business strategy but it sure sucks ninja monkey netherregions for the players. Once the shine wears off from the game being "new" then you will see droves of people dumping it in favor of TOR which is cooking along as we speak. That is my prediction and you can quote me on that if you'd lke xD
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
im going to go out and a limb and probably get flamed for this, but dont all games do this to some extent?
world of warcraft: I'm lvl 60! yay! ive done pvp, we have beaten onyxia( which our guild was the 3rd to do worldwide), and were waiting for molten core to open up. what do we do? i dont want to pvp, and i really dont want to run brs or brd every night. why is there a time limit on how often we can kill this stupid dragon? guess ill go lvl another class and do the same stuff over again. i have to wait 2 years before the first expansion is released and lvl cap increased? ok. is this not a form of limitation?
Age of conan: same thing pretty much. have to wait on instance timers to be reset before i can do them again. when i reach max lvl, start another char. waiting for expansions and lvl increase.
FFXI: timers on certain bosses. waiting on expansions and lvl increases. at least you didnt have to make a whole new character to play another class.
LOTRO: raid lock, what to do in mean time? ( never played this game, but from my readings its still pretty much the same as above)
i wont keep listing games but its been like this in most pve mmo's ive played. so people who have been playing mmo's, have always been on a limit system in some form or another. Now that ffxiv add's it to lvling its a big issue? its like the same difference? if a put a mcdonalds hamburger in a burgerking sack, does it change the burger inside? its still the same burger just its apperence is different. will it taste different? some will tell you yes, some will tell you no. funny how the mind percieves things isnt it?
so pretty much alot of the pay to play games out today impose some sort of limitation to the player. why arent those forums blowing up? why is it so important to lvl up to the max lvl as soon as possible? no one is trying to sell it to you, just that certain people can actually see the beauty behind its mechanics while others cant. They just want to give you a pair of glasses to try to help you see better. maybe you dont like to wear glasses cause they make you look funny or they annoy you?
I don't know how you can say AOC limits players ability to level when they give you tons of xp in instances and there are tons of instances, even with timers that prevent people from FARMING them. They even go so far as to give you "offline" levels which is a ridiculously fast way to level in AOC. I'm not saying I'm a super supporter of AOC but I don't think it contains any limits on what a player can do with their character whatsoever. None.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
i never said they limit you ability to lvl, im saying they do have limitations. not being able to farm an instance is a form of limitation. you kinda contridicted yourself there.
No i didn't. I specifically said there are tons of instances. They don't put a timer on them all at the same time. To allow groups or guilds to "farm" a specific dungeon wouldn't be very nice for the other players would it? That's the AOC community for you. Consequently the community of AOC is widely regarded as one of the worst in all of PC gaming.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
played a hox to 80. quit for a while. came back and they gave you a free character you could auto lvl to 50 so long as u had a lvl 80 char already. something along those lines. all raid instances were on a raid lock timer. this was about a month before the expansion came out so i have no idea about those instances. it was like monday: kyliki, vistrix, and the giant worm. i wish i could say i was joking but, right after those were done, they were redone on alts. tuesday: wing 1 and 2. after those were done on mains, you do them again on an alt. this was the reality of AOC for endgame right before expansion.
The fact that it would be unfair for guilds to farm raid instances i agree with. this is why there is a TIME LIMIT on how often that single character can do that dungeon. That still puts a limit on your main character does it not? your paying to play yet your main character is limited by a timer on raid dungeons.
fyi worst community by far is WoW.
While every game controls how fast someone can level to max (as stated in the video it is commonly through a steep leveling curve) the limit is traditionally on the number of played hours it takes to reach max.
It seems this system takes it a step further by controlling the number of days/weeks it takes to reach max level.
In my opinion this serves the primary purpose ensuring that the developers have time to complete content so no matter how much time someone has to devote to playing they won't reach a high level before SE is ready for them to.
While this may seem great to a casual player at first, I can see at least one major potential issue here, I, like many other casual players have times that I can and would like to devote more time to a game than normal. for example when I take vacation, or for others during spring break or whatever, now with this system this could be pretty pointless, during a one week vacation I could easily log more than 24 hours playing, that would be exp capped and three classes capped in just three 8 hour days I still have at least 4 days left in my vacation. blah...
as to their ascertain that this is revolutionary I am not so sure it seems it should be an improvement to the player to be revolutionary but then again I guess an improvement for the Dev is revolutionary too.
with these limitations I sure hope all content is there when people start to reach end game. if end game is incomplete SE will have no excuses.
Not at all. You are confusing character limits with individual raid timers and anti-farming countermeasures. Your character can still level away as much as you want it to whereever you want it to besides places that need to be shared as a gaming community. That is not limited at all. The fact that certain people would choose to scroll through these raids endlessly repeating them doesn't sound like much fun anyhow xD These reasons and the stinky community are why I personally don't play it.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
This is a secret ploy by SE to make you skill-up forever, so they can make more money. The video even said so straight up lol... But it's nice to have all the stuff on one character instead of 50 million alts.
This. I do not care much for the system as I haven't actually seen the fatigue kicking in. But I can imagine the following issues:
- Player starting to play later might get frustrated at not being able to "catch up"
- Players who play casual will be gimped for not having been forced to play more than 1 class
- Grind will seem like a longer chore as you stay in the same levelrange and meet a lot of the same monsters. (Meaning it takes longer before you see new refreshing content)
I can see where SE is coming from though. But the quote says it all
Honestly I am starting to think SE should do just like AoC did. They should remove this system for the first 2 months. Let all these freaks power level themselves to cap in 2 weeks, get bored and they will all go away. Then SE can put this back in since nobody that is left will care either way since it doesn't effect them anyway, and we can all live happily forever after. Well all except the power freaks who are so bent out of shape about a system that has yet to even effect them anyway. Seriously, are any of you bitching about this system even planning on playing this game when it goes live? You do know it hasn't gone live yet right? You do know your arguing about something that hasn't even been put in freaking place yet right?? A SYSTEM NOBODY HAS SEEN EFFECT THEM YET! Honestly, I'd call some of you stupid if I thought you smart enough to even know what that word meant.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Based on your logic here you should not be able to defend the mechanic either and you dont know if it will effect you.
We can however form an opinion based on the information they have provided, the video provided by the OP being one source.
and while I am a fairly casual player most of the time I can see where this feature as described would be an issue for me.
I agree. I dont get the point of this system. Why do anybody care how fast somebody else can lvl?
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
Sounds like they found a way to turn a 20 days played time sink into a 200 days played one. I mean, isn't this just a way to give "casuals" a completely useless achievement of reaching physical level max. While everyone else realizes to be useful you need an optimal mixture of disciplines and to get that mix you are going to have to grind through the same content over and over again to raise up the other "optional choices" so you can have the "freedom" to get the right mix of disciplines.
I could be way off (really, I'm not sure), as this is just based on watching the high quality video, as I haven't been following ffxiv since e3 and am not a fan of the ff series.
Wrong. They, like every mmo designer out there, decided it should take "200 days" to reach max level. If they remove the Fatigue system, and go like every other MMO, they'll crank up XP required per level so it take a hardcore player about 200 days.
Read again what I just said: even if they remove fatigue system, you will NOT be able to reach max level faster.
However, casual player who don't play as much as hardcore player will find the grinding absolutly horrendous as they take 2000 days to reach max level. So, again, they didnt turn 20 days into 200, they actually did the opposite, 2000 days into 200.
I thought that the movie in OP showed that quite clearly -.- why do I feel like I need to explain it agan >_<;
Also, if you cannot grasp why this system is beneficial for everyone, you are, most likely, an egocentric selfish solo player that would be better off playing a single player RPG.
The difference between a leveling curve and this system is that a leveling curve can only control how many hours it will take to reach max level. the player can determine how those hours are broken up so for simplicity sake say it takes 360 hours to reach max level, if a player devoted 24 hours per day to playing they could reach max level in 15 days
now in this system again for simplicity sake say it takes 15 hours to reach the xp cutoff (8 hours until decline and not sure on the math for the rest) that limits it to 15 hours in a week. So no matter how much time someone plays per day it would still take 24 weeks to achieve that 360 hours of experience gain.
in other words they can control how many weeks it takes to level regardless of how many hours someone has to devote.
look to my earlier post to see at least one way this can be an issue for even a mostly casual player.
In my opinion this is only really beneficial for SE.
hmm, ok. First, a correction: its 8hours of full XP and 15hours before you gain no benefit. so at 8hours a day, it'd take you 2 days of playing before reaching the "no xp gain threshold". Still going with your 3 classes example above, thats 6 days @ 8 hour a day before your 3 main classes are capped. Or is it? by the 6th day, your threshold will have lowered on your first class, meaning you can still grind a bit more. Lets say a 4 day break lowered it enough to allow you to play another 8 hours. so you have a 7th day worth of playing here. And on the 8th day? well, Fatigue system reset itself every week, so you can do another full week of 8hour per day grinding on your 3 main class.
Now, I do get your point. its a valid one: system can hinder your freedom at playing the game in burst.
But considering you can play 3 classe full time 8 hours a day non stop seems pretty reasonable limit to me.
maybe you can answer this for me, I am a bit ignorant on how the classes work, is it really better to level three classes in that time span then leveling two classes further?
I guess that's my thing, if playing a single class or even two classes is viable then it would be better to stick to those two classes, which would make this more limiting, if however you need three or more to be viable then it would be less limiting. But either way it gives the perception of being limited which in general people do not like. In addition if three classes are required or even two the benefits of this system to a very casual player become miniscule which still to me looks like it is only a true benefit to SE
I don't think I can say yes or no to that question, might be subject to one belief of what is better. However, I can fill you in data to make your own conclusion:
"Classe" are actually called discipline. You change discipline by simply changing weapon. even gatherring and crafting are made into discipline. you equip a mining pick, you are a miner.
Its important to remind its a discipline and not a classe or job like FFXI because when you think class and job, you think more level mean more hp, more str, ect...
A rank in a discipline give you attack move, spells, buff... but will do nothing on your actual power. Physical level, which are not tied to discipline, will give you HP, MP, Strenght, Dextirity, elemental resist and potency, ect...
Physical level xp gained is also tied to fatigue system, independant from discipline fatigue. I could be wrong, but I think I read somewhere that physical level fatigue take longer than discipline fatigue to reach the "no xp threshold"
Once you get a Discipline to rank 10, you can equip rank 1-10 actions from any discipline you already leveled (there is some restriction to balance it out). Number of action you can equip is limited by action point.
At end game, people will likely want max rank on most discipline as having the ability to mix match action to face a specific chalenge will likely be key to wining hardcore content.
edit:
Casual player will have less versatility than someone who managed to rank more discipline, but he will be able to participate and enjoy those end game events at about the same time as the hardcore one, not 2 year later.
At first I did nto like it but now it seems to make alot of sense especially in crafting because you will need to learn a little bit of other crafts in order to progress if you are doing it all by yourself. So technically I can get to level 15 and rest my guy then go work on something else like my crafting professions. Some are just mad because SE won't let them rush through the game like they do in every other mmo. Also the system they have in place doesn't force players to play everyday to justify that monthly fee. I like it.
The only ones that are going to complain, are those that can play alot in a day, and want to reach end game level as fast as possible. For me and my wife this system is awesome. We both take our time, explore and see all we can see. Having to play more classes is a bonus for us IMO. Hell I can t count how many times is some games we would look at each other and say damn I wish I could turn off exp. I can almost guarentee we ll never or very rarely get to the point were not gaining some exp. If I do I ll barely even notice it because I don t look at my exp bar, never have never will.