too much hype?

MMO.Maverick

 

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Originally posted by sayuri2006

I'll end by saying that I appreciate your feedback Robert, but I think you keep staring my postings back to one premise you believe in:

Bottom line is that some people see the game for what it really is, good or bad, while others are hyped up on it and logically can not see what the game is objectively because they are colored by their hype .

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This thread discussion has become silly beyond words and a circular pingpong debate, but let me add one thing to correct the statement above to a more realistic viewpoint:

 

 Bottom line is that some people see the game for what it really is, good or bad, while others are hyped up or riled up on it and logically can not see what the game is objectively because they are colored by their hype or dislike.

 

It works both ways: if hating or passionate dislike would rate 1 on a scale and extreme fanboism a 10 on a scale, then you have some people who are closer to the 1 or 10 and some people who are closer to neutral, 5.5. Objectivity is more often found not on the edges but in the middle, the 4-7 zone.

 

For the rest, this specific discussion has gone running around in circles chasing itself a few pages back already, the same arguments being rehashed over and over again.

Razzmatazzz

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by Razzmatazzz

@ Robert

Of course it has flaws and i am not saying its perfect. There are in fact a couple of points that worry me too but i still think the game has potential. The thing is judging on the difficulty of a game based on a convention demo is just close minded therefore are any OBJECTIVE conclusions not possible.

 

Obviously you are not a big fan of GW which makes me doubt that you even have a proper pvp rank in this game (cause reaching a proper rank in GW needs some dedication and judging from your opinion i cant imagine you would play a game for longer that you despise that much). If you really played the pvp part of this game seriously than you wouldnt throw around with statements like "primitive movement" and "conditioned/simplistic skillbar". There are a lot of aspects that make gws pvp very challenging and unique.

 

You say it has primitive movent! You probably have that opinion cause you cant jump and certain areas have invisible walls. But have you ever considered that gws projectile physics and collision system make movement in some ways way more important than in many other mmos or online rpgs. I dont know many mmos where you have a proper collision system which allows body blocking.

 

You also said that gws skillbar is simplistic and conditioned. Hm at first sight you are right but you didnt mention that GW has more than 1000 different skills and through the flexible respec and dual class system each character can basicly acces all of them. I have never seen a computuer game with nearly as much skillbuild creativity and variety. Guild Was was inspired by card games such as Magic the Gathering and everyone who played that game for real knows how complex and creative deck building can be. This open design philosophie gives that game a complexity that is unmatched in this genre (mmos and online rpgs). Yeah if your definition of challenge is to cope with 20 to 30 skills at the same time than yes GW might not be your game. For you that simplistic skillbar is a flaw but for everyone who actually digged a bit deeper and also is a fan of playstyle variety this conditioned skill philosophy is a true strengh of that game.

Yeah sure you will think i am just a GW fanboy and to a certain degree you i am a fan but I also know about the flaws that game has (its far from perfect but than again which game is). Your clumsly criticism shows that you havent played the game very much and for sure not on a higher pvp level. Its ok if you just have played it for a while and it just didnt appeal to you but claiming to be an expert and than making such obviously not very well researched statements just makes you look bad.

 

You can have all the possible skills in the world, but when you are limited to one skill bar while actually fighting the game is simplistic and easy. Whereas in other games you are dealing with like 40-50 abilities per person, which makes things quite complex. The movement was primitive, if you can't understand that, at least relative to other mmorpg games, then your mind is already made up anyway. As I said before gw1 pvpers want to think gw1 pvp was some sorta pinnacle of rpg pvp, but it was easy-mode and not even on the radar of veteran pvp guilds.

Originally posted by sayuri2006

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by sayuri2006

Originally posted by RobertDinh

Originally posted by sayuri2006

Robert,

You are more than welcome to come on here and rack up more on your 200+ posts on your crusade and why you think that because you see things in an objective way that GW 2 and it's hype meter is in reality not 8.73.

I can't understand why you are so obsessed with the hype meter, it is not an objective analysis nor is it a "this game must be this good! It's 8.73" conclusion. It is a subjective and at best tarnished with perception and lack of understanding. BUT it is people's hopes for the game as much as it is an indication of things that may come to fruition at release. Nobody really knows where the true faults and positives will be until after release.

Let people continue to have hope in this genre....I know I need it, people like how GW 2 is shaping up so good on them. You are not the tooth fairy or Santa Clause going around and objectively telling people that they don't exist.

Not everyone is agreeing nor disagreeing that this is a 8.73 game in it's current state.

You're a gamer, not a developer. You may have 10 years gaming experience behind you but in reality you have to understand that even before that so-called "top" game comes out for you, you'll just have to continue nit picking GW 2 to your heart's content.

 

See that's the thing, objective criticism in your mind is perceived as being "obsessed" or being on a "crusade" because you are not objective. There is no crusade here, there is merely observation. If someone points out that the earth is not flat, is he on a crusade to prove that automatically? No. As far as not knowing where the true faults are until after release, that is true for people with basic understanding, I mean yea things are always subject to change, we could find out vivendi bought ncsoft and has shifted gw2 over to a blizzard project tomorrow, for all we know, but the reality of it is when you are experienced you understand the direction things take and how they turn out. There's plenty of hope for the genre regardless of whether there is fanboing and hyping, WoW exploded the mmorpg player base and it is only getting larger and larger. One could also make the argument that by not being objective and hyping games you are making OTHERS lose hope for the game itself. Some people don't want to play another game that has a wow-like fanbase. I am indeed a gamer, but top gamers understand games better than the developers themselves usually. If this weren't so the developers would be the best players, and usually they aren't even close.

But you are on a crusade because you seem to refuse players to believe that GW 2 might be something special to them out of the hat by posting your entire history on here by objectively saying that GW 2 is a) not worth the hype and b) because we are not being objective we can't see the faults in GW 2. You have posted more than 200 Robert, 200 posts on GW 2 alone, if that is not dedication to get your point across, then I don't know what is. You say it's merely observation, 200+ posts is not mere observation, it's fanaticism with a cause. A cause to get people to see your point of view?

Robert do not do that. Do not say because of experience you understand the direction things take. I'm sure there are alot of people that are ALOT older than you who play and work in the gaming industry that are being objective just as you are but also have interested in the game. Yes gamers can be better than the developers but you must also realise that these same developers have alot more exposure to top gamers and feedback from players on how to make top games. Just because you may be a top gamer (I assume you mean you are good at games?) yes it may mean you are aware of common trends in good MMORPGs but it doesn't mean you know in this case in what direction GW 2 is going to take by release. Hopefully some of your issues and mine will be addressed. I'll finish up with one final thing: A top gamer doesn't mean a top developer. There is alot of work being a developer and unless you work in a role as one, you certainly do not understand games better than the developers. Why do you think otherwise? lol, It's their job.

 

Really? Did I ever say gw2 is not allowed to be special to some players? I said it would be a success, you only perceive incorrectly what I say because you are automatically on the defense because you are hyped up about the game. And there are many more people with more posts than me. As far as people being more objective yet excited about the game, that simply isn't possible. People who are objective and experienced with MMOs understand that even the most promising sounding games can turn out to be total flops. We know what to look for and what to stay away from. I know the direction gw2 will take. I've said it many times, it is going to be another wow-like game that is very polished but is very casual friendly and provides little challenge to high caliber gamers. Is this because I am omnipotent? No, it is because I have a higher understanding for the direction anet is taking and i've played the demo. Now when the game comes out after the initial craze of playing a new game, it is going to have it's criticisms, when those criticisms are identical to the ones I have conveyed before the game has launched, it isn't going to be a coincidence. It's sorta like how a lot of seasoned MMO players knew warhammer would be a stinker, yet so many more people could not understand that and had to go waste their money to find out. Also your inexperience is apparent if you think developers understand their games better than the top players. The top players figure out mechanics that the developers had never considered, they master the game so their perspective of the game is of a very high skill level. Developers tend to be avg or slightly above avg in skill level, so their perception tends to be that of developing the game from the view of someone of that skill level. So to them some encounter may be too difficult in QA testing, but in live the top players might find it to be a cake walk. Bottom line is that some people see the game for what it really is, good or bad, while others are hyped up on it and logically can not see what the game is objectively because they are colored by their hype.

Ok Robert, or whoever you are, you make some pretty bold statements by saying that it is impossible to be objective about a game and also have interest in a game. I think I'm a very objective person, I have to be in ways and I am experienced enough in the MMORPG scene to know that personally I think it alot easier for you to believe yourself that experience=knowledge. I don't use that logic to think that I know what direction A-net is taking GW 2, but good on you if you believe so. If you want to believe that I am inexperienced that's your choice. I am not, my little cup cake. I'll end by saying that I appreciate your feedback Robert, but I think you keep staring my postings back to one premise you believe in:

Bottom line is that some people see the game for what it really is, good or bad, while others are hyped up on it and logically can not see what the game is objectively because they are colored by their hype.

I look forward to seeing you on GW 2 one of these days, a cool beer on the side in celebration as well perhaps?

 

 

Sure thing...

I looked at your past comments and it seems like you put a lot of effort in convincing people from you so called "objective" expert opinion. I dont know man you narrow minded BS argumentation does only lead to you jerking platonicly off infront of your computer. It just shows me that you have obviously a lot of fun in arguing just for the sake of arguing. That kind of zero tolerance behaviour  smells like troll for me.

"Look at your comment, now back to mine. Now back at your comment now back to mine. Sadly it isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, writing the comment your comment could look like. What did you post? Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again the reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible with legit comments. I'm on a chair."

 

I guess there is not much more to say on this topic at least nothing that would lead to any kind of interesting dialogue.

rbc13183

Originally posted by Razzmatazzz

I looked at your past comments and it seems like you put a lot of effort in convincing people from you so called "objective" expert opinion. I dont know man you narrow minded BS argumentation does only lead to you jerking platonicly off infront of your computer. It just shows me that you have obviously a lot of fun in arguing just for the sake of arguing. That kind of zero tolerance behaviour  smells like troll for me.

"Look at your comment, now back to mine. Now back at your comment now back to mine. Sadly it isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, writing the comment your comment could look like. What did you post? Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again the reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible with legit comments. I'm on a chair."

 

I guess there is not much more to say on this topic at least nothing that would lead to any kind of interesting dialogue.

Look at me...I'm on a motorcycle. Now back at me now... I"m on a horse. Look at me again, see these tickets to your favorite concert? They're now diamonds....

(had to do it ) 

PerfectLife

There's no such thing as too much hype, however, people refuse to accept blame for things they do and as such use the force of guilt and emotional pressure to force events to happen. In short, if you got tricked by hype you're stupid and it's only your own fault for getting tricked. That's not even a big deal, people get tricked by things all the time. What is a problem is that consistantly people blame everything except the real root of the problem which is, as I have already stated, theirselves.

Besides, how is anyone going to revolt over this? They can't. You can't revolt against the internet, what a insane concept.

Razzmatazzz

Originally posted by rbc13183

Originally posted by Razzmatazzz

I looked at your past comments and it seems like you put a lot of effort in convincing people from you so called "objective" expert opinion. I dont know man you narrow minded BS argumentation does only lead to you jerking platonicly off infront of your computer. It just shows me that you have obviously a lot of fun in arguing just for the sake of arguing. That kind of zero tolerance behaviour  smells like troll for me.

"Look at your comment, now back to mine. Now back at your comment now back to mine. Sadly it isn't mine, but if you stopped trolling and started posting legitimate comments it could look like mine. Look down, back up, where are you? You're scrolling through comments, writing the comment your comment could look like. What did you post? Back at mine, it's a reply saying something you want to hear. Look again the reply is now diamonds. Anything is possible with legit comments. I'm on a chair."

 

I guess there is not much more to say on this topic at least nothing that would lead to any kind of interesting dialogue.

Look at me...I'm on a motorcycle. Now back at me now... I"m on a horse. Look at me again, see these tickets to your favorite concert? They're now diamonds....

(had to do it ) 

yeah its an awesome commercial had to quote it

Leucrotta

Originally posted by RobertDinh

You can have all the possible skills in the world, but when you are limited to one skill bar while actually fighting the game is simplistic and easy. Whereas in other games you are dealing with like 40-50 abilities per person, which makes things quite complex.

 

Sure thing...

You dont have a simple skillbar in competitive PvP, in PvP you have 8 skillbars to fill, yes you have to actually think what another teammate puts on his bar to compliment yours.

 

Besides that, how many of the 40-50 skills does one use anyways, most mmo's is spamming 1 to 5 thats it. 75% of the skills a class have is either useless or never used.

 

Also there is a big difference between Competitive PvP and killing noobs in their starters area what many people find so "hardcore".

bookworm438

OK those saying GW1 PvP is simple because you can only have 8 skills out at a time, have you ever played PvP? If anything, it makes it more  complex. Why? because you have to think hard about what to bring. You have to find a good balance between offensive and defensive skills. What you bring for offense, you sacrifice defense, and vice versa. Every slot has more meaning now, because one wrong skill can ruin your entire build. You don't have the safety net of knowing you can use any of your safety skills at any time. Plus, because every skill has a separate cooldown, you have to think harder about timing. Should you waste the cooldown now, or save it. You have to check with your teammates. Does you skills complement theirs? Does someone else pick up the defense/offense that your build lacks. And, if someone on the other team has a counter to your build, you are screwed.

Just because you can't jump around doesn't make the PvP any less complex.

Chirugai

This thread has served it's purpose. Closing this up due to off topic discussion and personal attacks. Please review the Rules of Conduct. Thanks!