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GW2 Videos: Farewell Gathering Outside the City
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I'm sorry for this Drauss guy. His long reply-post (which I am not going to cite since it was ridiculous), was ridiculous. You fail to comprehend anything Robert said, and you also extrapolated his statements to subjective opinions about what is good or bad in a game.
Also, I was not sarcastic before, Rob is the only poster on mmorpg forums right now that posts objectively on things. I am stunned people are denouncing him as a troll.... unbelievable. Yes, you could argue that he is unnecessarily poking a stick in people's hype balloons, and that forums are for positive remarks only. Personally, I get much more information out of people posting about potential issues.
Charli,
Opinions are not facts. Robert tries to pass his opinions as facts and if someone doesn't agree with him he brings out the objectivity card. However, he once again tries to pass his subjective views as objective. On top of all that he will put his "logic" in there; and all that is, is circular reasoning. In case you didn't know, this is an example of circular reasoning: My statement is logical because what I use is logic; your statement isn't logical because you aren't using logic.
Lets avoid personal attacks on other users. Thanks.
Let's just love each other!
I'll see you all in Tyria!
Obviously people accuse my points of just being mere opinions when they don't like what I have to say. There is no opinion about the game showing severe fps lag in the OP's video link. That is reality.This from a guy named "KillHurt!" :P
Quoted for truth and great justice.
I can back up everything I say because it is based on material that has been released as fact. If I speculate I say so.
Robert doesn't bother to back anything up. Its all pure speculation and its misleading to anyone that reads his posts because they are not based on fact.
Don't feel sorry for me. I enjoy a good debate but it doesn't help if the other parties simply ignore points made because it is more convenient to do so and then deliberately spreads misinformation.
I am not saying I am absolutely correct at all. But when I make a point its because I have read something that is "official".
The long and the short of it is that Robert Dinh is going out of his way to place a negative spin on any thread here pertaining to GW. His opinions are based on fantasy not fact in most cases. He is selling it as the truth. He only posts in these threads and on reading his posts he isn't a fan of the game. I just wish he would back up his points. I don't mind being proven wrong, but I dislike the lies and deception.
People come here for info and to have a discussion on a topis. The topic being Guild Wars 2.
For the duration that people post misinformation I feel that I should correct it where possible. I am not here to troll I just would like to avoid misinformation from disenfranchised parties.
Nobody has disputed the existence of lag-- well, first:
Define "severe"; the qualifier itself is subjective. For example, I played the FFXIV beta with considerably more lag than was in the GW2 farewell party video. I've also been party to slideshow keep sieges in WAR; if what we saw is an example of "severe" lag, we need a whole new definition for what WAR players experienced in the first 6 months of its life. GW2 in contrast was certainly not unplayable in that state.
So, nobody has disputed the existence of lag in the video except the individual who later apologized and conceded the existence of lag in the video. In fact, most posters have acknowleged the lag, but argue that either the amount of lag is acceptable to them, to be expected because the game is pre-alpha (a state you disagree the game is in, but this is not a fact either side is privy to), or is less severe than they expected.
Everything else that you've said is what is suspect and comes purely from extrapolation, assumption, and opinion. What can we deduce objectively from the video? You start off well - with X number of players tightly assembled in a persistent zone, all casting spells, the framerate could be seen to drop. What can we further deduce? Well, nothing really; we don't know anything about ping of the connection from Washington to Germany, and the code is not optimized for launch.
Those are two more facts.
Without further information, insight into the netcode or how close to final graphics optimization the game is, we simply lack any basis to conclude anything further than, "at Gamescom, at the farewell party, a large number of players gathered on a hill and cast spells, and the framerate dropped." Full stop.
Anything else you say is fair game to be dissected and scrutinized, because you have exactly as much knowledge about the game's future iterations as everyone else does.
Can rob get a 'troll of the year' award please?
or at least a lifetime effort reward, bless him, he's been here for months trying to piss people off with his inccesant complaining, i'd just love to hear what game he thinks is good, just so we can laugh at him , because all the complaints about gw2 means that he either a) hates every game ever made or b) is from a parrallel dimension where we our world is actually a game, and gw2 is like a mini game to him, or of course c) he's retarded 
Aye, the game lags a bit on the framerate side in the second video, but it's a lot of people in the video and the game is pretty indeed, but remember, they are all very close to the 'camera'- (that's the important bit, dear rob, they are all on at once in very close proximity to the camera, ever heard of LoD and occlusion culling? obviously not, you poor thing - without lag on a (assumingly) half decent pc.
However to get any definitive insight into real performance, we'd have to find out what the computers ran on though gpu wise, i'm assuming probably gtx460's, being as nvidia were the partner and no-one would put 40 gtx480's under strain in one building, no matter the size, plus i'm assuming they'd have an electricity usage cap :P I vaguely remember you remarking that it'd be somewhat due to it being a RAM hog, at which that made me laugh, you're funny with your lack of computer knowledge y'know? the primary source of the lag you saw is down to the gpu
Guild wars 2 looks awesome though
And that is spot on!!!
No-one can say for sure but as far as this whole thread goes you are dead on!
Great vid links, TY!
Drauss has the last word on this thread, imo. That's gold, for you!
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Obviously people accuse my points of just being mere opinions when they don't like what I have to say. There is no opinion about the game showing severe fps lag in the OP's video link. That is reality.Nobody has disputed the existence of lag-- well, first:
Define "severe"; the qualifier itself is subjective. For example, I played the FFXIV beta with considerably more lag than was in the GW2 farewell party video. I've also been party to slideshow keep sieges in WAR; if what we saw is an example of "severe" lag, we need a whole new definition for what WAR players experienced in the first 6 months of its life. GW2 in contrast was certainly not unplayable in that state.
So, nobody has disputed the existence of lag in the video except the individual who later apologized and conceded the existence of lag in the video. In fact, most posters have acknowleged the lag, but argue that either the amount of lag is acceptable to them, to be expected because the game is pre-alpha (a state you disagree the game is in, but this is not a fact either side is privy to), or is less severe than they expected.
Everything else that you've said is what is suspect and comes purely from extrapolation, assumption, and opinion. What can we deduce objectively from the video? You start off well - with X number of players tightly assembled in a persistent zone, all casting spells, the framerate could be seen to drop. What can we further deduce? Well, nothing really; we don't know anything about ping of the connection from Washington to Germany, and the code is not optimized for launch.
Those are two more facts.
Without further information, insight into the netcode or how close to final graphics optimization the game is, we simply lack any basis to conclude anything further than, "at Gamescom, at the farewell party, a large number of players gathered on a hill and cast spells, and the framerate dropped." Full stop.
Anything else you say is fair game to be dissected and scrutinized, because you have exactly as much knowledge about the game's future iterations as everyone else does.
Unfortunately this post is quite inaccurate. There are people that disputed the existence of lag, if you actually read the thread you would have seen people like cyphers flat out denying the existence (before even being willing to watch the videos), and then continuing to deny it after watching the videos, and then finally admitting it after watching the videos a second time.If a game drops down to 10 fps it is pretty severe fps lag. You can argue that severe is subjective, but ok we can use other words like substantial or significant, and then you can argue that they are subjective, but the FACT of the matter is there is fps lag and it is quite noticeable and it drops the FPS to a point that someone like myself can tell is about 1-10fps.
The game was unplayable it was slideshowing when those spells were getting spammed, and that's in a small demo cluster, imagine in live after the game is launched.
An objective person would agree with me here 1-10 fps is not acceptable lag for a game in 2010.
The netcode was irrelevant in the case of that video lag, hardware lag vs internet lag are 2 different things.
Bottom line: People in a small group relative to numbers you would see in a live game caused the game to create lots of fps lag due to casting spells and that was only a group of people that were in PvE mode with no friendly fire or enemy damage.
Now you can try to dilute everything out to such a broad and subjective generalization that you can try to argue all sorts of irrelevant points, but facts are facts. As I said before if you want to argue that the game was played on 486 computers during a massive thunderstorm in washington while the event internet was getting ddos'd you can do that to your heart's content, but that isn't the reality of the situation.
I've already outlined why your last paragraph is irrelevant, because the game isn't live. You know what else wouldn't be acceptable for a live game in 2010? A character you can only play to level 2, or a character you can only play at level 47. A game with only four of eight classes revealed, and two of five races. A game you can only play for 40 minutes at a time. I predict, based on the incompleteness of the demo, that GW2 will be woefully short on content, because just imagine that lack of content in a live game!
However, do be sure to copy all these posts to your clipboard so you can paste it back here if your doomsaying comes true. You know, because that's when they would actually be relevent.
I think Cyphers is one of the most constructive posters I have seen. But the facts that there was lag, is only that. I take RobertDinh's points that it is perceivable problem and potentially game-making/breaking one if it comes to it, but I don't worry about it at this stage of the game's development nor expect it to be extrapolated as a significant perfomance issue with the game at launch. I still believe with the absence of knowledge that ArenaNet can resolve this problem and that their comments appear confident on this issue, that I have heard.
Drauss imo, has the final word on this concern and the rest is pure worry which only leads to more worry. Confidence is still high in this camp ; )
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
Looks like someone is just in it for the rise.
Simply put it is a video of a demo, of the game running on a portion of code used that is unfinished and wired to an internal server and in no way the final game server - if someone would like to presume that it is the same as a final retail copy all power to them, but everyone else in the thread has put across rational and logical counter differences which I agree with too.
Lets not forgot the original GW and the performance of that game.
This may or may not add to anything but Germany's Community Manager, Martin Kerstein, replied to a performance level question and pc spec used at the demo stations.
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=366242&postcount=47
MK: "I already answered that one: The game is in development, and engine optimization is one of the last steps you do, so any hardware specs at the moment would just be misleading. "
http://www.guildwars2guru.com/forum/showpost.php?p=325694&postcount=87
MK: "Talking about the hardware we run the demo on is pretty pointless.
The game is still in development, and engine optimization is one of the last things you do...."
This will probably be the closest official answer we'll get for now.
Playing now: Cities: Skyline / Ori and the Blind Forest / Banished
Putting your negative spin on things again, eh?
I didn't watch the videos a second time, I watched the videos fully a first time when you couldn't be bothered to point out where the lag was. Because that is your thing, you speculate a lot, twist truths, and go out of your way to find anything negative to say about GW2, you keep derailing threads until they're locked and your claims about objectivity are laughable, as if some redneck hillbilly is saying "I am the smartest man of the world". Saying it doesn't make it so, it only makes the fact that you aren't more obvious.
Then again, your goal doesn't seem to be objectivity but to find negative spins on GW2 in your crusade to dehype GW2 and 'expose' ANet.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I really don't understand why people are discussing lag based on this video. I was at gamescom when they showed this on the big booth screen and didn't really notice any kind of siginificant lag. Plus this is a game demo and it's unlikely to have been fully optimized.
The almighty Robert says that the game is running at 10 fps.
So we discuss, we mere mortals.
"It has potential"
-Second most used phrase on existence
"It sucks"
-Most used phrase on existence
You really have a hard time admitting you are wrong eh. This isn't the first topic I proved you to be completely wrong on, why don't you just take it like a rational person and accept it instead of trying to slip in your personal attacks. As if someone that is objective cares if you compare them to a redneck hillbilly just because you are insecure about your own intellect after being completely shut down when trying to claim that my assertion that the game was suffering video lag was completely baseless. When in fact there was clear proof of it. Now dlangley asked people to cut it out with the personal attacks, I am curious if certain people get special treatment or if the rules are enforced equally across the board.
You did not say cyphers apologized (which he didn't in reality, it was more of an insincere apology where he didn't actually want to fully admit he was wrong) until later in your essay, when you don't clarify inaccurate statements from the get go, you set an inaccurate tone for your entire post. You can't make an unclarified claim at the beginning, and then make it again later on with a little clarification, which is still inaccurate, that is sloppy posting and it showed me that you hadn't fully absorbed what had transpired and was conveyed in the thread. Video lag and internet lag do not manifest themselves in the same way. Internet lag = delayed responses or complete pauses in gameplay and then a "catch-up" process. Hardware lag which is what we clearly saw through fps dips to 1-10 fps. Also yea it is easy for me to tell how many frames per second a game is getting, i've been playing PC games for a long time, I use a monitor with 150 refresh rate. I am very sensitive to inconsistent FPS, and yes I can tell the difference between 10 fps, 30 fps, 60 fps, 100 fps. Anything past 150 gets a little harder cause it's all so smooth at that point. The game doesn't have to be live, the bottom line is the game in it's current state is incapable of running lots of spells at once without suffering severe FPS lag. It is not objective to just assume that it will be completely fixed for live. I much prefer going by evidence, and the most up-to-date evidence we have is that the game can't handle heavy spell casting in pve mode with a group of people in a concentrated area. Let alone something like WvWvW pvp. Basically what is happening here is you are trying to be rational, but you do not realize that you are biased, and everything you say is colored by that bias.
No-one is wrong Robert not you nor I or anyone. There is a lack of evidence to support anyones theories.
Other people challenge your opinion and they have every right to as well as you do theirs. Only thing is people acknowledge your opinion. You siimply don't even acknowledge anyone elses opinion and take the "Because I say so" approach.
You don't have to accept anyone elses theory here and they don't have to accept yours. Your respondents generally do you the courtesy of acknowledging your opinion. They will then usually present a case for an alternate theory and usually it will have reasons why they think it to be so.
You don't even do the courtesy of acknowledging anyone. A forum is a community based medium and you seem to be doing your best to split or fragment the community with your comments. I am not saying we all have to for a consensus on the same idea, quite the opposite in fact. There is a big difference in a fragmented community and a diverse community. You seek the former and what we really should have is the latter.
Diversity in forums fuels discussions. It leads to new ideas and in depth debating which makes a community stronger.
Fragmentation can only lead to dissent, division and ultimately kills a community.
Again and again I say this. You don't need to accept any opinion given, but you really need to accept that people are entitled to it and although you may think so, you are not always necessarily correct. The same can be applied to any user on these forums.
So please if you wish to discuss then discuss. What is currently happening is definatley not the case.
Oderint, dum metuant.
Yea because they really wanted their demo to suffer performance issues at a gaming convention right?
Sorry chief, having people with several points of view is not fragmenting the community, especially when the more common points of view are often biased. Maybe i'm just too liberal since I think it is healthy for everyone to share their points of view and personally always prefer objectivity over blind hate or blind love.