I've found that Turbine in general creates bland MMOs from my experience with them. LOTRO was alright for awhile but it quickly got boring for me. I tried DDO and didnt last 2 nights playing it...is it me or does Turbine do a horrible job of creating character models? They've got to be some of the worst in the buisness at it imo lol
There was nothing wrong enough with the initial MEO design to make you think that. In fact, many aspects of LotRO still hold the old MEO design, and where it deviates from that old MEO design seems to be where people have problems with it (the insanely boring quest grind, the item grind)
umm there never was a MEO game, just a design alpha
I vividly recall such topics being QQ'ed over by the AP crowd
drarfs and Elves could not be in same same kinship
no heavy armor, the lore does not support it
it should take several days of real time to go from Hobbiton to Bree because it did in the books
no buff effects on swords armor jewlery etc
no mobs other than natural wildlife in the Shire
no remote healing effects, minnies would heal afterward using herb packs
hobbits could be burglars only
just a few of the ideas the AP/ Moriquendi/Elves of the Imladris championed as I recall
As I was part of the Elves of Imladris I can say that pretty much none of those were championed by anyone but a few of the fools who probably hadn't even read the books.
The healing problem was fixed with the morale system. As you fought, your morale bar would drain, and you'd have a tiny tiny health bar. Health woulds would take a while to heal, but morale could be raised or lowered by fear, bolstered by captains, banners, and minstrels. While your morale was high, you'd block and parry and dodge, once your morale was gone, you only had a few hits before you died. It made perfect sense and would have been a great gameplay mechanic, some of it even carried over into LotRO.
The heavy armor was just a debate in the book section of the forums discussing how the Saxons only wore chainmail, no one took that seriously. Dwarves and Elves, never heard that argument, and it doesn't make a ton of sense either. Not all dwarves hated all elves.
The buff effects on swords/armor and jewelry doesn't make sense either as there was plenty of subtle magic in Middle Earth.
Several days real time was an unrealistic expectation that NOBODY I know was in favor of. But the insanely small and linear Middle Earth we have now, full of invisible walls and impassable hills is just a disgrace.
And the wildlife in the Shire thing, no, there shouldn't be able mobs in the Shire proper, why would there be? Thats the entire point of the Dundedain rangers was to keep bad men OUT of the Shire. Wolves were still a problem, and there was the old forest, and on the outskirts of the Shire, bandits, and that's how it should have been.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
I'm sorry but this I just cannot buy. The lead developers from WoW were all hardcore EQ1 raider veterans, and it shows. Not nearly enough people played AC2 to think that thats where the ideas were lifted from. It may share those ideas, but I doubt the inspiration was drawn directly from AC2.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
And the number of games that are successful? In 2003 you had Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, all doing well, all having subs in the 200k+ mark(save maybe Ultima). Modern day you have... WoW aaand maybe LotRO (though thats debatable since it had to go FTP to keep going). AoC bombed, Aion bombed, STO bombed, Vanguard bombed, WAR bombed, in fact, I think the only two games gaining subscribers and expanding their dev team is Darkfall and Eve.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. Sorry, but at its height, LotRO never reached 600k of EQ. It was closer to 200k You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
EQ never hit 600k, that is just plain false.
Aion has not bombed, it isn't at the million mark it sold with when it hit the west but it still has plenty of subs. In fact the XFire list still has Aion in the top ten games played, up there with things like WoW, CoD:MW2 SC2 etc. Although XFire's numbers don't tell you how many subs a game has, it is clear when a game is in the top 10 list of played games that it has lots of subs.
WoW, EvE (you seem to like to ignore the high sub numbers of that one), LotRO, DDO, Aion. Then we have games using different model types like Silkroad online and GW which have had large numbers but have to be measured differently since they don't use subs.
Information has been released about the success of DDO and where it sits on the charts now, it is clearly successful.
There are just as many games with just as high of numbers as the games back in the day. In fact, if you were to match the top 5-6 MMOs back then with the top 5-6 MMOs now, the ones now would all have higher numbers then the one they were matched up with. WoW clearly destroys EQs numbers. EvE/LotRO/Aion clearly destroys DAoC/UO/SWG (and for the record there is no information that AC ever reached 200k subs, the best we know of is it being around 150K).
So not only do the top games today beat the top games of the past, they are doing so with 10-20x the competition out there as well. When EQ/AC/UO were big, there were only a couple other small choices that even existed, now there are hundreds.
I get it though. You are one of those people that "knows" it all and who truly thinks their opinions about games and the market are the same as the truth about games and the market. So there is no hope to ever show you the errors in your conclusions.
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
LOTRO is a great game...probably (IMO) still the best MMO out there, but it does have it's share of issues... and frankly from my perspective it has slid quite a bit downhill in the past couple years as the Dev's have watered down some of the things that were the games strong points.... but as to what it's strengths are:
1) Polish - From a technical perspective Turbine put in a ton of work that the game played and worked smoothly with minimal bugs and performance issues. Although you may run into an odd bug here or there...by comparison with other MMO's it's rock solid from a technical standpoint. Some people have pretty high tolerance for bugs...but solid technical performance and lack of bugs can be a very big factor in delivering overall quality play experience.
2) Lore - The game is based off of one of the greatest fantasy IP's of all time. That's a huge benefit to it....and you can tell that the Dev's invested alot of time bringing that Lore into the game. This IS one of the areas that I feel HAS been getting weaker over the life of the game. When the game first launched with SOA, it felt alot closer to the Lore then it does now. The Dev's seem to have been willing to bend the Lore more and more to try to shoe-horn more standard fantasy MMO expectations, in order to satisfy marketing or business mandates (i.e. MMO's MUST have flashy magic users, etc). This is one of the things that I think has seriously weakened the game..... yet despite that, there still is alot of Tolkiens work still represented in LOTRO.
3) Writing - While I'm not a big fan of Theme-Park, pre-scripted Story games.... at the very least you can see Turbine spent alot of time, talent and attention to detail in writing thier story arcs and quests. Yes, the game has a pretty standard variety of kill X, fetch Y style quests. But every single one of them is written in such a fashion to make sense and fit logicaly with what is happening in the Area, World and Story Arcs. So yes, even though you will be sent out a fair number of times to kill X boars. When you are, the reason behind it makes sense...and doesn't come off as artificial or an excuse as it does in so many MMO's. If you are the type of person that doesn't read quest text then you probably don't appreciate this point but it can make a big difference for those that do.
4) Community - The community in this game....particulary the RP community is one of the strongest that you'll find in any MMO. Now this is an area that I also feel has slid a bit..... not that there has been a big increase in the number of jerks/griefers or anything like that.... but just that some of the tools used to help build strong communities have been weakened considerably..... Namely... GROUPING. Whether you like forced grouping or not....it's pretty much inargueable that when people NEED to work together to achieve some common goal....they will tend to value and treat each better and the community as a whole will be stronger. Neccesity (Forced Grouping) helps build stronger communities. When the game first launched, finding and working within groups was a real requirement in order to access certain parts. This has been steadly watered down with a seemingly single minded devotion to make the game more "solo freindly". While I won't go so far as to say this has destroyed the community or anything like that...it HAS seriously undermined one of the pillars that helps build and maintain strong communities. Nevertheless...the community is still one of the games strongpoints.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
I'm sorry but this I just cannot buy. The lead developers from WoW were all hardcore EQ1 raider veterans, and it shows. Not nearly enough people played AC2 to think that thats where the ideas were lifted from. It may share those ideas, but I doubt the inspiration was drawn directly from AC2.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
And the number of games that are successful? In 2003 you had Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, all doing well, all having subs in the 200k+ mark(save maybe Ultima). Modern day you have... WoW aaand maybe LotRO (though thats debatable since it had to go FTP to keep going). AoC bombed, Aion bombed, STO bombed, Vanguard bombed, WAR bombed, in fact, I think the only two games gaining subscribers and expanding their dev team is Darkfall and Eve.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. Sorry, but at its height, LotRO never reached 600k of EQ. It was closer to 200k You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
EQ never hit 600k, that is just plain false. At its peak, EQ had around 550k subscribers, look it up.
Aion has not bombed it has in the west, it was closing and merging servers like crazy, the asian market is entirely different from the one we're discussing,
WoW, EvE (you seem to like to ignore the high sub numbers of that one nope, I haven't in fact if you had read what I said, I mentioned Eve as one of the only growing sub numbers, but also, Eve is a game from 2003, meaning it falls under the "oldschool" category), LotRO, DDO DDO was a terrible failure and no one would touch it with a 10 foot pole until it went free to play. Even now, its hardly a giant, its just not a giant money hole anymore. And its FTP, so... , Aion. Then we have games using different model types like Silkroad online and GW which have had large numbers but have to be measured differently since they don't use subs. GW is not an MMO, why bother bringing it up?
Information has been released about the success of DDO and where it sits on the charts now, it is clearly successful. After 4 years of being a catastrophic failure, it seems.
There are just as many games with just as high of numbers as the games back in the day. Incorrect. If a game was successful, it wouldn't merge and close servers. Here's a list of modern MMos that had to close servers due to losing massive amounts of players after the launch hype faded. WAR, AoC, Aion, Vanguard, STO, DDO, how many am I forgetting? In fact, if you were to match the top 5-6 MMOs back then with the top 5-6 MMOs now, the ones now would all have higher numbers then the one they were matched up with. Well thats just plain guesswork, shoddy too, and you haven't even given figures to back it up. WoW clearly destroys EQs numbers. EvE/LotRO/Aion Eve is an old game, and so it falls into play with DAoC and SWG, and no, LotRO at its peak had LESS subs than DAoC at its peak, much less SWG. clearly destroys DAoC/UO/SWG (and for the record there is no information that AC ever reached 200k subs, the best we know of is it being around 150K Which was a big success back then, and AC was the smallest of the MMOs back then).
So not only do the top games today beat the top games of the past they don't, they are doing so with 10-20x the competition out there as well you mean all those MMOs that shut down, crashed and burned, filed bankruptcy, ect ect? Great competition. In the old days, I remember 2 MMOs closing over the course of 6 years. Modern MMOs we have APB, AoC had to fire almost all its devs and filed for bankruptcy, Vanguard died and got purchased, Tabula Rasa got shut down, WAR is on the verge of death. When EQ/AC/UO were big, there were only a couple other small choices that even existed, now there are hundreds. And there were fewer players overall, less people had broadband or good computers, there were few if any review sites, ect ect. It was much harder to get people into MMOs back in the 90s than it is now, and even with that the old MMOs still managed higher numbers than modern AAA titles.
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
I have to agree with you here.
I've run into that issue with LOTRO several times.
However, I suppose that is more an issue with a "game" over a "world".
My thought is that a player should be able to enter the cave but if there is a scripted quest (that they have in their quest log) then they should be able to pick from a dialog box or some such thing.
I had an issue where a person had a quest in a cave and asked for help. No one was responding so I offered to help. We partied up, he entered but I couldn't enter because I wasn't on the corresponding quest. Or had finished it (more likely that was the case).
that was extremely frustrating.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
pssst this is a game not the real world. If I were to see a 10ft tall orc with a battle axe wandering around my back yard I certainly would not go chasing it armed with my songbook. Most likly I would faint then upon coming to would call 911/animal control and change my boxer shorts.
Just saying game design and real world have nothing whtasoever to do with each other.
BTW the old MEO crowd, lorites one and all, argued passionatly for the MEO I described earlier. They, your kinship included, all preached to high heaven that if it was not in the trilogy or supported by the Silmarillion it was not to be ingame as I recall. Most left in a huff when LoTRO was in beta and having strokes and venting their anger with the design on the beta boards.
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
I have to agree with you here.
I've run into that issue with LOTRO several times.
However, I suppose that is more an issue with a "game" over a "world".
My thought is that a player should be able to enter the cave but if there is a scripted quest (that they have in their quest log) then they should be able to pick from a dialog box or some such thing.
I had an issue where a person had a quest in a cave and asked for help. No one was responding so I offered to help. We partied up, he entered but I couldn't enter because I wasn't on the corresponding quest. Or had finished it (more likely that was the case).
that was extremely frustrating.
Remembering this alone keeps me from picking up the game again. It's just very poor design, immersion or no.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
pssst this is a game not the real world. If I were to see a 10ft tall orc with a battle axe wandering around my back yard I certainly would not go chasing it armed with my songbook. Most likly I would faint then upon coming to would call 911/animal control and change my boxer shorts.
Just saying game design and real world have nothing whtasoever to do with each other.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
you have a opinion and that is your right. You have been beating the same old drum that Turbine is the devil and LoTRO is a pile of dog poo since 2007 yet people still play and enjoy the game for what it is, not for what they imagined it would be.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
you have a opinion and that is your right. You have been beating the same old drum that Turbine is the devil and LoTRO is a pile of dog poo since 2007 yet people still play and enjoy the game for what it is, not for what they imagined it would be.
That has nothing to do with opinion, Turbine, or MEO. Not being able to enter a dungeon without a proper quest is terrible game design, plain and simple.
Yes I do still want to tell you that you don't know your stuff. LotRO has always been in the top 5 western MMOs since it launched. This isn't because it is the terrible game you try to make it out to be. It is because it has a lot of quality to it.
Also at some point someone threw out the good old "WoW clone" argument, which shows so much ignorance it is humorous. WoW is a complete rip off of AC2, a game Turbine made. So at most LotRO is a reskinned AC2 and not in any way a WoW clone.
A rip off of AC2? That's the first time I've ever heard that. There's no denying WoW hasn't done anything new in terms of gameplay mechanics, its basically just a dumbed down EQ clone. The difference is in the design style. Smaller linear worlds, overuse of instances, quest based leveling, focus on the solo player, ease of entry, focus more on the game being a GAME rather than a world, and focus on gathering items as the primary gameplay element.
As for LotRO, I'm not making it out to be a terrible game. I think LotRO is probably the best themepark game out there, but considering most themepark games fail hard right out of the gate, that's not too difficult. Even at its height LotRO never reached the level of success older MMOs had. It's easy to be in the top 5 when a market is at its all time low. LotRO has a lot of good ideas, but its crippled by a lot of poor ideas at the same time.
Welcome to the genre if it is the first time you've heard it. People who don't know all that much about the genre think it is an EQ clone, however it is an AC2 clone. Everything down to the UI is a copy from AC2. Turbine set the trend for modern MMOs with AC2 even though WoW is typically who gets credit for it just like UO wrongfully gets credit for being the longest running MMO. AC2 only didn't survive because of how Microsoft managed it. They rushed it out the door which led to severe bugs/balance issues (including no chat for a month or two) which killed the game. They finally had all those fixed before it closed down but the damage was done. There is a reason why there are still people out there that want AC2 back, it was a big change for the day and age it was created.
I'm sorry but this I just cannot buy. The lead developers from WoW were all hardcore EQ1 raider veterans, and it shows. Not nearly enough people played AC2 to think that thats where the ideas were lifted from. It may share those ideas, but I doubt the inspiration was drawn directly from AC2.
The market isn't at an all time low, the types of games you personally enjoy in the MMO world is at an all time low. There is a difference. The market, the number of games, and the number of companies that exist in the MMO world is at an all time high.
And the number of games that are successful? In 2003 you had Ultima Online, EverQuest, Dark Age of Camelot, Asheron's Call, EverQuest, Star Wars Galaxies, all doing well, all having subs in the 200k+ mark(save maybe Ultima). Modern day you have... WoW aaand maybe LotRO (though thats debatable since it had to go FTP to keep going). AoC bombed, Aion bombed, STO bombed, Vanguard bombed, WAR bombed, in fact, I think the only two games gaining subscribers and expanding their dev team is Darkfall and Eve.
WoW, LotRO, EvE, Aion all had numbers that exceeded the old high levels that games like EQ reached. Sorry, but at its height, LotRO never reached 600k of EQ. It was closer to 200k You try to say other wise because, once again, you just don't like the style of MMOs that are popular right now. That is fine, but don't try to twist the facts just because you don't like a certain playstyle.
EQ never hit 600k, that is just plain false.
Aion has not bombed, it isn't at the million mark it sold with when it hit the west but it still has plenty of subs. In fact the XFire list still has Aion in the top ten games played, up there with things like WoW, CoD:MW2 SC2 etc. Although XFire's numbers don't tell you how many subs a game has, it is clear when a game is in the top 10 list of played games that it has lots of subs.
WoW, EvE (you seem to like to ignore the high sub numbers of that one), LotRO, DDO, Aion. Then we have games using different model types like Silkroad online and GW which have had large numbers but have to be measured differently since they don't use subs.
Information has been released about the success of DDO and where it sits on the charts now, it is clearly successful.
There are just as many games with just as high of numbers as the games back in the day. In fact, if you were to match the top 5-6 MMOs back then with the top 5-6 MMOs now, the ones now would all have higher numbers then the one they were matched up with. WoW clearly destroys EQs numbers. EvE/LotRO/Aion clearly destroys DAoC/UO/SWG (and for the record there is no information that AC ever reached 200k subs, the best we know of is it being around 150K).
So not only do the top games today beat the top games of the past, they are doing so with 10-20x the competition out there as well. When EQ/AC/UO were big, there were only a couple other small choices that even existed, now there are hundreds.
I get it though. You are one of those people that "knows" it all and who truly thinks their opinions about games and the market are the same as the truth about games and the market. So there is no hope to ever show you the errors in your conclusions.
Hard to compare the old market with todays market. Older games wouldn't achieve the raw numbers of todays games simply because the number of house-holds with PC's in them was far fewer...even more so the number of households with reliable internet access.... even more so high speed internet access.
Then again, older games didn't need to achieve those numbers because production costs/budgets were alot less....and their audience base was quite different in it's expectations. They also didn't face as much competition.
So tough to make comparisons on any meaningfull level (IMO) with that many variables at play. I think it's like trying to compare Masters of Orion 3 with the origional Wizardry. MOO3 sold more copies then Wizardry but was universaly panned as a dismal disappointment (a well deserved reputation IMO) while Wizardy is often regarded as a landmark success. So I'm not sure how much we can really tell by a metric like raw numbers.
I think LOTRO is an excellent game. Though I'm not entirely sure there isn't some merit to the claim that it's quality of competition was pretty weak. What were the other big budget titles that released in 2007? Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate Lodon, Age of Conan. Not exactly a stellar line-up of contemporaries. It's a crowded market, but let's be honest....alot of it's direct competitors have ended up shooting themslves in the foot....some-times both feet with a safe shackled to one arm.
Also, really hard to see how well the origional vision of MEO might have done without it ever having been released. MMO's are alot like art or movies....really hard to pin down exactly what will end up as a big hit. People often think they have a formula as to what's needed for success.... but alot of times things produced according to that formula flop hard..... while every once inawhile something comes out of left field...entirely different from what's expected to make a success...and end up making a big splash.
Alot of times, you just don't know until something hits the public.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
you have a opinion and that is your right. You have been beating the same old drum that Turbine is the devil and LoTRO is a pile of dog poo since 2007 yet people still play and enjoy the game for what it is, not for what they imagined it would be.
That has nothing to do with opinion, Turbine, or MEO. Not being able to enter a dungeon without a proper quest is terrible game design, plain and simple.
care to share with us the names of the MMO's that you designed that made it to market ? I happen to enjoy the overall design of the game but that is just my opinion, I am not a profesional game designer
Lots of troll food in this thread... what's the point in arguing with a person who doesn't even know what the term opinion means, one that has no idea what he's talking about, and is still 100% sure in his one and only truth being almighty? Same old, same old....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
Pretty much all games are kill X number of this or gather X number of that. It's how it's presented that makes the game. I'll give you a couple of examples.
Last night I got a quest that on the base of it was kill 16 crows. OK standard kill mission, but the write up from the NPC was how he always felt watched, couldn't move around during daylight without the crows watching and reporting on what he was doing. Reading it you could actually feel this guy was persecuted. Another in the Elf area where you're looking for the guys kid. So you go to his buddy and he says he thinks he's down in this glade. OK since it's a quest hub you grab the other missions available. One is a simple gather wood mission, but the NPC gives you - since you're going down there, how about gathering some wood for the fire. I'd do it but I'm catching some rays, drinking wine and eating cheese. Everything he feeds you just says 'I'm lazy, why don't you do it?'.
It's not the quests themselves (although there are some really good one's), nor is it just the write up's, it's how the whole thing is packaged and presented. If all you do is grab and kill, then you are going to be bored be it this game or the next. But if you take the time to get involved with the game, then that's when it starts to shine.
Graphic's - if you crank some of your settings it really looks like a living, breathing world. Tree's, grasses swaying in the wind, birds flying etc.....
One of the big points I think goes back to something that was really good in the original SWG and that's the ability to do what you want to; play music, fish, farm, craft, explore just what ever. You can play the game how you want to. I've spent whole play sessions just planting and growing pipeweed then giving it away.
I think this is the best post that explains why LOTRO is good. If you really don't give a damn about to read quests, LOTRO is no different than any other MMO.
I just want to add few things to this conversation, mostly for the original topic;
- If you are a new player in LOTRO, you'll really get used to see very few people till level 50ish, and from my own experiences you see more and more people when you increase your level. I generally skip the group quests with my lowbies after a few tries in LFF channel. After 50, you get used to see lots of people in/around Moria. The game is actually very alive at the last 15 levels you'll gonna play. If you don't care about group play, you can solo till 65, without doing epic quests after vol1. If you read posts like "This game is dead, no one plays it." you do need to realize this guys probably don't pass level 20. Best to level with (group of) friend(s) if you can, and it is very enjoyable.
- LOTRO is challenging to some extent but it is not extreme hardcore. I do find myself enjoying grinding. Grinding may give a title, a skill virtue or a trait virtue. I was very surprised to see a house furniture trophy while I was killing bears in Old Forest for some medium hides. It gives the feeling that you are getting rewarded for your effort, even for a small extra trophy that is.
- Quest rewards are generally fantastic. If you give your 2-3 damn hours to a damn quest, you know that you'll get a really good reward.
For a conclusion, what I can say is, this game is very solid for the right person that enjoys PVE by every means. It is not yet very challenging but not also very easy. It sometimes needs patience, and its group play sometimes requires good communication. I really think these are a few reasons that forces LOTRO community a solid bunch of mature people. This is coming from an active player, and I really like how LOTRO it is now. I hope it won't really get bad with F2P conversation (for europe).
I'm really wondering why so many people call this the best MMO out there?
I tried it again now that it's F2P, it was fun for a few days but after that i didn't bother logging in anymore. I don't know why, it feels so basic and has nothing new to offer. All you can do is quest, quest, quest and there's barely anyone doing dungeons in the lowers levels.
Well, for one thing is it set in one of the best and oldest (AoC is in the same class and even older) worlds.
The graphics is at times stunning, 'cept maybe the avatars. No other F2P game is close to it in graphics.
The bad news is that they make you play henchmens to the real heroes of the books, and that is kinda a turnoff, I wish they had set the game in the second age instead.
As for the rest, that is MMO standard today. To get something else you either have to play an older MMO, a small ill coded indie MMO or wait for GW2.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
pssst this is a game not the real world. If I were to see a 10ft tall orc with a battle axe wandering around my back yard I certainly would not go chasing it armed with my songbook. Most likly I would faint then upon coming to would call 911/animal control and change my boxer shorts.
Just saying game design and real world have nothing whtasoever to do with each other.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
I agree that artificially restricting access to dungeons/areas is a suspension of disbelief issue. Given the use of instancing, they should just have one instance appear if you have the quest, and another if you don't. If it is a cave of angry orcs, it should always be that way.
On the flip side, the use of extended storyline in LOTRO is one of my favorite features, so if that is the trade-off to be made in the game, I'm ok with that.
"You say that if its a good thing. ALL dungeons should be free to enter without a quest." Garvin3
And you say things in broad brush general terms and are misleading. There are free to enter dungeons, and instances. There are also quest only dungeons and instances. Opinion is ruling the day.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
I have to agree with you here.
I've run into that issue with LOTRO several times.
However, I suppose that is more an issue with a "game" over a "world".
My thought is that a player should be able to enter the cave but if there is a scripted quest (that they have in their quest log) then they should be able to pick from a dialog box or some such thing.
I had an issue where a person had a quest in a cave and asked for help. No one was responding so I offered to help. We partied up, he entered but I couldn't enter because I wasn't on the corresponding quest. Or had finished it (more likely that was the case).
that was extremely frustrating.
Remembering this alone keeps me from picking up the game again. It's just very poor design, immersion or no.
I think the game is good enough that one can overlook a few annoying warts.
I mean heck, look at the video that was posted with all the roleplayers on landroval dancing and playing instruments and telling stores.
And there are very few games out there that actually give that "immersion" factor. From those I've played, Vanguard is the only one.
There's going to be good or bad in any game. I logged in for a bit last night and spent most time just re-evaluating an alts outfit (not cool enough).
I think there is enough in this game where one can lose themselves and be entertained even with some of the silliness.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I think the game is good enough that one can over look a few annoying warts.
I mean heck, look at the video that was posted with all the roleplayers on landroval dancing and playing instruments and telling stores.
There's going to be good or bad in any game. I logged in for a bit last night and spent most time just re-evaluating an alts outfit (not cool enough).
I think there is enough in this game where one can lose themselves and be entertained even with some of the silliness.
/agree
spent 3 hours last night going back and doing Vol1 quests on a alt that I had leveled fairly fast and skipped a lot of the content. It was a trip down memory lane redoing those initial quests in Breeland and LL and I had a blast even though they gave me zero exp or gear that I could use.
Anyyone that skips the epic first time through at least is missing thw best part of the game. Take your time and read the quest dialogue and watch the cut scenes, they are really well done.
I think the reason I like Lotro is because its one of the few fantasy mmos that has similar elements to a traditional rpg solo game . As an mmo I prefered Vanilla WoW because of its world pvp . Given that no longer exists for the greater part and that game is now so watered down it offers no sence of achievement ,Lotro really is the only decent free roaming fantasy mmo around now . Which is why its full of mature WoW refugees that still love the mmo genre .
For me LOTRO was good (not best due instances and all new-age crap, no ol'timers hardcore) til Moria, then it started to vanish down and down, and mirkwood was last drop for me, I cancelled it.
And then, hehehehe - cam e news about F2P, what for me equals insta-cancel. NO F2P for me, never-ever.
So no more LOTRO for me til it in hands of turbine-wallet bros.
I hope they soon bancrupcy and IP can fall into hands of some indie co wishing to make a GAME for us.
I kept trying LOTRO. I always wanted to like it. There wasn't anything that was very good about it to me. I liked the lore, that was a first in MMO's for me, and I liked how the world looked and felt. But it didn't get much further than that, the combat felt unrewarding and slow, the quests were all kill 5 wolf style quests, or go pick flowers in the forest. The pvp wasn't very fun feeling either, and there really wasn't very much for me in the crafting. But I kept going back to try it again and again, after everyone kept ranting and raving about how great it was, or how great the community was, but eventually I gave up. Nothing is so good about LOTRO to me.
For me LOTRO was good (not best due instances and all new-age crap, no ol'timers hardcore) til Moria, then it started to vanish down and down, and mirkwood was last drop for me, I cancelled it.
And then, hehehehe - cam e news about F2P, what for me equals insta-cancel. NO F2P for me, never-ever.
So no more LOTRO for me til it in hands of turbine-wallet bros.
I hope they soon bancrupcy and IP can fall into hands of some indie co wishing to make a GAME for us.
I to hope some other company will buy out LOTRO and make it an epic game deserving of the Lord of the Rings title. The only thing LOTRO has going for it is that it is the only Lord of the Rings MMO. Turbine is a complete faliure of a company that does not deserve the Lord of the Rings IP. They lie and cheat there way to players money instead of creating a good product people would want. MOM SOM and other stuff they have given out official information on what players will get and collect preorder money on. Then a few weeks later will tell you 1/2 the stuff they said you will get will not be given to you. They make there money off of marketing scams not by being a good company.
Well first off reported your post and sure hope others do as well.Your not giving your opion of the game but flaming and lying about a company big difference.Turbine is and always has been VERY good to it's customer base.Your pretty much just saying whatever to try to justify your unwarranted bashing.
Comments
I've found that Turbine in general creates bland MMOs from my experience with them. LOTRO was alright for awhile but it quickly got boring for me. I tried DDO and didnt last 2 nights playing it...is it me or does Turbine do a horrible job of creating character models? They've got to be some of the worst in the buisness at it imo lol
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
As I was part of the Elves of Imladris I can say that pretty much none of those were championed by anyone but a few of the fools who probably hadn't even read the books.
The healing problem was fixed with the morale system. As you fought, your morale bar would drain, and you'd have a tiny tiny health bar. Health woulds would take a while to heal, but morale could be raised or lowered by fear, bolstered by captains, banners, and minstrels. While your morale was high, you'd block and parry and dodge, once your morale was gone, you only had a few hits before you died. It made perfect sense and would have been a great gameplay mechanic, some of it even carried over into LotRO.
The heavy armor was just a debate in the book section of the forums discussing how the Saxons only wore chainmail, no one took that seriously. Dwarves and Elves, never heard that argument, and it doesn't make a ton of sense either. Not all dwarves hated all elves.
The buff effects on swords/armor and jewelry doesn't make sense either as there was plenty of subtle magic in Middle Earth.
Several days real time was an unrealistic expectation that NOBODY I know was in favor of. But the insanely small and linear Middle Earth we have now, full of invisible walls and impassable hills is just a disgrace.
And the wildlife in the Shire thing, no, there shouldn't be able mobs in the Shire proper, why would there be? Thats the entire point of the Dundedain rangers was to keep bad men OUT of the Shire. Wolves were still a problem, and there was the old forest, and on the outskirts of the Shire, bandits, and that's how it should have been.
EQ never hit 600k, that is just plain false.
Aion has not bombed, it isn't at the million mark it sold with when it hit the west but it still has plenty of subs. In fact the XFire list still has Aion in the top ten games played, up there with things like WoW, CoD:MW2 SC2 etc. Although XFire's numbers don't tell you how many subs a game has, it is clear when a game is in the top 10 list of played games that it has lots of subs.
WoW, EvE (you seem to like to ignore the high sub numbers of that one), LotRO, DDO, Aion. Then we have games using different model types like Silkroad online and GW which have had large numbers but have to be measured differently since they don't use subs.
Information has been released about the success of DDO and where it sits on the charts now, it is clearly successful.
There are just as many games with just as high of numbers as the games back in the day. In fact, if you were to match the top 5-6 MMOs back then with the top 5-6 MMOs now, the ones now would all have higher numbers then the one they were matched up with. WoW clearly destroys EQs numbers. EvE/LotRO/Aion clearly destroys DAoC/UO/SWG (and for the record there is no information that AC ever reached 200k subs, the best we know of is it being around 150K).
So not only do the top games today beat the top games of the past, they are doing so with 10-20x the competition out there as well. When EQ/AC/UO were big, there were only a couple other small choices that even existed, now there are hundreds.
I get it though. You are one of those people that "knows" it all and who truly thinks their opinions about games and the market are the same as the truth about games and the market. So there is no hope to ever show you the errors in your conclusions.
How is that OPINION? If I see a cave in the game world, or a dungeon, there is no logical reason whatsover for me to NOT be able to enter it. Not only is it bad game design, but it SHATTERS immersion if you get a popup text saying "you don't have the proper quest to enter this dungeon." I don't know of any other good MMO that has that horrible feature. I didn't say that the dungeon shouldn't be instanced (personally, I don't think it should be) but you should be able to GO INSIDE.
LOTRO is a great game...probably (IMO) still the best MMO out there, but it does have it's share of issues... and frankly from my perspective it has slid quite a bit downhill in the past couple years as the Dev's have watered down some of the things that were the games strong points.... but as to what it's strengths are:
1) Polish - From a technical perspective Turbine put in a ton of work that the game played and worked smoothly with minimal bugs and performance issues. Although you may run into an odd bug here or there...by comparison with other MMO's it's rock solid from a technical standpoint. Some people have pretty high tolerance for bugs...but solid technical performance and lack of bugs can be a very big factor in delivering overall quality play experience.
2) Lore - The game is based off of one of the greatest fantasy IP's of all time. That's a huge benefit to it....and you can tell that the Dev's invested alot of time bringing that Lore into the game. This IS one of the areas that I feel HAS been getting weaker over the life of the game. When the game first launched with SOA, it felt alot closer to the Lore then it does now. The Dev's seem to have been willing to bend the Lore more and more to try to shoe-horn more standard fantasy MMO expectations, in order to satisfy marketing or business mandates (i.e. MMO's MUST have flashy magic users, etc). This is one of the things that I think has seriously weakened the game..... yet despite that, there still is alot of Tolkiens work still represented in LOTRO.
3) Writing - While I'm not a big fan of Theme-Park, pre-scripted Story games.... at the very least you can see Turbine spent alot of time, talent and attention to detail in writing thier story arcs and quests. Yes, the game has a pretty standard variety of kill X, fetch Y style quests. But every single one of them is written in such a fashion to make sense and fit logicaly with what is happening in the Area, World and Story Arcs. So yes, even though you will be sent out a fair number of times to kill X boars. When you are, the reason behind it makes sense...and doesn't come off as artificial or an excuse as it does in so many MMO's. If you are the type of person that doesn't read quest text then you probably don't appreciate this point but it can make a big difference for those that do.
4) Community - The community in this game....particulary the RP community is one of the strongest that you'll find in any MMO. Now this is an area that I also feel has slid a bit..... not that there has been a big increase in the number of jerks/griefers or anything like that.... but just that some of the tools used to help build strong communities have been weakened considerably..... Namely... GROUPING. Whether you like forced grouping or not....it's pretty much inargueable that when people NEED to work together to achieve some common goal....they will tend to value and treat each better and the community as a whole will be stronger. Neccesity (Forced Grouping) helps build stronger communities. When the game first launched, finding and working within groups was a real requirement in order to access certain parts. This has been steadly watered down with a seemingly single minded devotion to make the game more "solo freindly". While I won't go so far as to say this has destroyed the community or anything like that...it HAS seriously undermined one of the pillars that helps build and maintain strong communities. Nevertheless...the community is still one of the games strongpoints.
I have to agree with you here.
I've run into that issue with LOTRO several times.
However, I suppose that is more an issue with a "game" over a "world".
My thought is that a player should be able to enter the cave but if there is a scripted quest (that they have in their quest log) then they should be able to pick from a dialog box or some such thing.
I had an issue where a person had a quest in a cave and asked for help. No one was responding so I offered to help. We partied up, he entered but I couldn't enter because I wasn't on the corresponding quest. Or had finished it (more likely that was the case).
that was extremely frustrating.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
pssst this is a game not the real world. If I were to see a 10ft tall orc with a battle axe wandering around my back yard I certainly would not go chasing it armed with my songbook. Most likly I would faint then upon coming to would call 911/animal control and change my boxer shorts.
Just saying game design and real world have nothing whtasoever to do with each other.
BTW the old MEO crowd, lorites one and all, argued passionatly for the MEO I described earlier. They, your kinship included, all preached to high heaven that if it was not in the trilogy or supported by the Silmarillion it was not to be ingame as I recall. Most left in a huff when LoTRO was in beta and having strokes and venting their anger with the design on the beta boards.
I miss DAoC
Remembering this alone keeps me from picking up the game again. It's just very poor design, immersion or no.
You should read the above post and realize why its not a good game mechanic for any reason rather than just continue spouting nonsense.
you have a opinion and that is your right. You have been beating the same old drum that Turbine is the devil and LoTRO is a pile of dog poo since 2007 yet people still play and enjoy the game for what it is, not for what they imagined it would be.
I miss DAoC
That has nothing to do with opinion, Turbine, or MEO. Not being able to enter a dungeon without a proper quest is terrible game design, plain and simple.
Hard to compare the old market with todays market. Older games wouldn't achieve the raw numbers of todays games simply because the number of house-holds with PC's in them was far fewer...even more so the number of households with reliable internet access.... even more so high speed internet access.
Then again, older games didn't need to achieve those numbers because production costs/budgets were alot less....and their audience base was quite different in it's expectations. They also didn't face as much competition.
So tough to make comparisons on any meaningfull level (IMO) with that many variables at play. I think it's like trying to compare Masters of Orion 3 with the origional Wizardry. MOO3 sold more copies then Wizardry but was universaly panned as a dismal disappointment (a well deserved reputation IMO) while Wizardy is often regarded as a landmark success. So I'm not sure how much we can really tell by a metric like raw numbers.
I think LOTRO is an excellent game. Though I'm not entirely sure there isn't some merit to the claim that it's quality of competition was pretty weak. What were the other big budget titles that released in 2007? Vanguard, Tabula Rasa, Hellgate Lodon, Age of Conan. Not exactly a stellar line-up of contemporaries. It's a crowded market, but let's be honest....alot of it's direct competitors have ended up shooting themslves in the foot....some-times both feet with a safe shackled to one arm.
Also, really hard to see how well the origional vision of MEO might have done without it ever having been released. MMO's are alot like art or movies....really hard to pin down exactly what will end up as a big hit. People often think they have a formula as to what's needed for success.... but alot of times things produced according to that formula flop hard..... while every once inawhile something comes out of left field...entirely different from what's expected to make a success...and end up making a big splash.
Alot of times, you just don't know until something hits the public.
care to share with us the names of the MMO's that you designed that made it to market ? I happen to enjoy the overall design of the game but that is just my opinion, I am not a profesional game designer
I miss DAoC
Lots of troll food in this thread... what's the point in arguing with a person who doesn't even know what the term opinion means, one that has no idea what he's talking about, and is still 100% sure in his one and only truth being almighty? Same old, same old....
DB
Denial makes one look a lot dumber than he/she actually is.
I think this is the best post that explains why LOTRO is good. If you really don't give a damn about to read quests, LOTRO is no different than any other MMO.
I just want to add few things to this conversation, mostly for the original topic;
- If you are a new player in LOTRO, you'll really get used to see very few people till level 50ish, and from my own experiences you see more and more people when you increase your level. I generally skip the group quests with my lowbies after a few tries in LFF channel. After 50, you get used to see lots of people in/around Moria. The game is actually very alive at the last 15 levels you'll gonna play. If you don't care about group play, you can solo till 65, without doing epic quests after vol1. If you read posts like "This game is dead, no one plays it." you do need to realize this guys probably don't pass level 20. Best to level with (group of) friend(s) if you can, and it is very enjoyable.
- LOTRO is challenging to some extent but it is not extreme hardcore. I do find myself enjoying grinding. Grinding may give a title, a skill virtue or a trait virtue. I was very surprised to see a house furniture trophy while I was killing bears in Old Forest for some medium hides. It gives the feeling that you are getting rewarded for your effort, even for a small extra trophy that is.
- Quest rewards are generally fantastic. If you give your 2-3 damn hours to a damn quest, you know that you'll get a really good reward.
For a conclusion, what I can say is, this game is very solid for the right person that enjoys PVE by every means. It is not yet very challenging but not also very easy. It sometimes needs patience, and its group play sometimes requires good communication. I really think these are a few reasons that forces LOTRO community a solid bunch of mature people. This is coming from an active player, and I really like how LOTRO it is now. I hope it won't really get bad with F2P conversation (for europe).
Well, for one thing is it set in one of the best and oldest (AoC is in the same class and even older) worlds.
The graphics is at times stunning, 'cept maybe the avatars. No other F2P game is close to it in graphics.
The bad news is that they make you play henchmens to the real heroes of the books, and that is kinda a turnoff, I wish they had set the game in the second age instead.
As for the rest, that is MMO standard today. To get something else you either have to play an older MMO, a small ill coded indie MMO or wait for GW2.
I agree that artificially restricting access to dungeons/areas is a suspension of disbelief issue. Given the use of instancing, they should just have one instance appear if you have the quest, and another if you don't. If it is a cave of angry orcs, it should always be that way.
On the flip side, the use of extended storyline in LOTRO is one of my favorite features, so if that is the trade-off to be made in the game, I'm ok with that.
I think the game is good enough that one can overlook a few annoying warts.
I mean heck, look at the video that was posted with all the roleplayers on landroval dancing and playing instruments and telling stores.
And there are very few games out there that actually give that "immersion" factor. From those I've played, Vanguard is the only one.
There's going to be good or bad in any game. I logged in for a bit last night and spent most time just re-evaluating an alts outfit (not cool enough).
I think there is enough in this game where one can lose themselves and be entertained even with some of the silliness.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
/agree
spent 3 hours last night going back and doing Vol1 quests on a alt that I had leveled fairly fast and skipped a lot of the content. It was a trip down memory lane redoing those initial quests in Breeland and LL and I had a blast even though they gave me zero exp or gear that I could use.
Anyyone that skips the epic first time through at least is missing thw best part of the game. Take your time and read the quest dialogue and watch the cut scenes, they are really well done.
I miss DAoC
I think the reason I like Lotro is because its one of the few fantasy mmos that has similar elements to a traditional rpg solo game . As an mmo I prefered Vanilla WoW because of its world pvp . Given that no longer exists for the greater part and that game is now so watered down it offers no sence of achievement ,Lotro really is the only decent free roaming fantasy mmo around now . Which is why its full of mature WoW refugees that still love the mmo genre .
For me LOTRO was good (not best due instances and all new-age crap, no ol'timers hardcore) til Moria, then it started to vanish down and down, and mirkwood was last drop for me, I cancelled it.
And then, hehehehe - cam e news about F2P, what for me equals insta-cancel. NO F2P for me, never-ever.
So no more LOTRO for me til it in hands of turbine-wallet bros.
I hope they soon bancrupcy and IP can fall into hands of some indie co wishing to make a GAME for us.
I kept trying LOTRO. I always wanted to like it. There wasn't anything that was very good about it to me. I liked the lore, that was a first in MMO's for me, and I liked how the world looked and felt. But it didn't get much further than that, the combat felt unrewarding and slow, the quests were all kill 5 wolf style quests, or go pick flowers in the forest. The pvp wasn't very fun feeling either, and there really wasn't very much for me in the crafting. But I kept going back to try it again and again, after everyone kept ranting and raving about how great it was, or how great the community was, but eventually I gave up. Nothing is so good about LOTRO to me.
Well first off reported your post and sure hope others do as well.Your not giving your opion of the game but flaming and lying about a company big difference.Turbine is and always has been VERY good to it's customer base.Your pretty much just saying whatever to try to justify your unwarranted bashing.