I guess Rifts drop is due to little information released dispite that it may seems alot has been released in the past month or so.
What seems to be interesting for me about Rifts is it does bring alot of things that may have been done before in a way or so and have them all intergrated.
The rift concept reminds me alot of oblivion, the oblivion gates randomly opening up on the world. and how they bring mobs in and stage an attack at a town ala tabula rasa. the attack the town part is what has me excited as it was one of the best parts tabula rasa had.
Well for me it is sad that it does seem many are brushing the potential the game does have .
I've lowered my rating a little bit, but then again I've done that on all the games I was excited about, lol. It seems the more I hear, the less I want to play something.
I think what caused me to lower was hearing about battlegrounds you queue for (think that was this game). I just really dislike that system, so my score went down a little. I'm usually honest about my hypes, although I do often forget to update them, lol.
A lot of people probably give really low scores to MMOs they haven't even looked at especially if they are in direct competition from their "chosen" game.
I was going to update all my hypes after reading this thread since I rarely think about it, but found out I can only edit 2 per day, hehe.
I'm looking into RIFTs, but I can't say I know that much about it. It's the game I'll most likely play if SW:TOR and GW2 somehow fail to hold my attention.
I think the problem is that Trion simply isn't doing enough to hype their game.
Perhaps the most direct reason why the game is hyped as high as it is is that the point system basically curves things around the highest rated game. It used to be that by taking a straight average of the ratings, the top rated game would typically be between 6 and 7. So the site changed the system so that if the top rated game has a rating of x, then each game with a rating of r by taking a strict average would have is rating show as something like r + 5 - x/2. That probably isn't the exact formula, but it's something like that. Thus, instead of the top five games at a given time showing as ratings of 6.6, 6.4, 6.3, 6.25, and 6.2, they'd display as 8.3, 8.1, 8, 7.95, and 7.9. That keeps the order the same, but makes the ratings intuitively seem better.
It does, however, mean that if no one rates one particular game, but some other new game gets rated really highly, it makes the rating as displayed on the front page drop. That's exactly what has happened to this game: as the hype for Guild Wars 2 cranked up, it made everything else drop by comparison.
Still, is the real question why the game isn't hyped higher? Or why it is even as hyped as it is? What reasons are there for this game to be highly hyped? It's not coming from a studio with a strong track record, or any other track record, for that matter. It's not a well-known IP (which I don't think should make much difference, but it does to some people). There aren't revolutionary new game mechanics, or perhaps rather, if there are, then Trion isn't talking about them yet. Note how the hype on Guild Wars 2 shot upward once ArenaNet started talking about game mechanics; those mechanics had long since been in the game already, but didn't produce hype until people knew about them.
What does the game have in its favor? Lots of mobs spawning at rifts that show up in varying spots? Okay, that's kind of new, I guess, and perhaps beats a static distribution of mobs from a decade ago. But revolutionary? Hardly. The multi-class system is perhaps a little different twist on the usual class system. But only a little, and not a terribly interesting sounding twist, at least in theory.
And what about the classes themselves? We've gone from the tired old tank/healer/damage dealer routine to... tank, healer, physical damage dealer, and magic damage dealer. Could Trion have come up with a more stale classification of classes if they tried to? Is any particular class in this game something really new in terms of game mechanics, and not just a rehash of something that has been done many times before? If so, then Trion isn't talking about it yet--which is why it isn't registering on the hype meter yet.
endersshadow tried to address this above:
"Lets take the class system in RIFT -I haven't seen any other game that has given quite as much options when it comes to building a class. No other game will let you have 4 specs that I know of at least."
Does this game offer the sort of build versatility that Champions Online does? There you get one energy builder, 2 travel powers, and 13 other skills--and you can take whichever skills you like. You can pick your 14 skills from 14 different power sets if you prefer, though you'll miss out on some synergies between skills. The nearest thing to a "class" is a pair of super stats, and any of the 28 combinations are viable--and can be paired with most of the available skills and work just fine. There are a handful of skills that scale with certain stats. That's vastly more versatility in choosing a build than this game has, unless there's an awful lot of complexity that Trion is keeping secret for now.
Or if switching between specs on a single character is your thing, then does this game offer the sort of versatility that Guild Wars does? That doesn't just let you swap between four fixed builds. You can change your build around however you like for free when you're in town. I think I've got more than a hundred builds saved there, and frequently go out using a build that isn't one of my saved ones. If so inclined, you could have four million saved builds available to a given character, with every single skill in the game available to players appearing in thousands of them. It's not just that one character can use all of the >1000 skills in the game. It's that once you have acquired those skills, you can switch between any of them as often as you like for free.
Quzzical's first two paragraph fairly represent the rating system here. The ratings are statistically adjusted to improve all of the games ratings but that adjustment is effected by the highest rated game. When the top rated game gets a naturally high rating(one given by the members) all other game rating adjustments are reduced and thus reflect a score closer to what the members here really gave it.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
My concern with the hype system comes in when people actually buy into it, and buy into those superficial comments. I agree everyone wont like the same game but if they are turned away from the game by lies and half truths, well then that bothers me.
That's a valid concern. And I wonder if that's why this 'Hype Meter' is so low in the front page (you have to scroll to the bottom to see it). This concern also applies to any kind of tools where it becomes easy to post your opinion. If you look at what's going on, you'll notice that FFXIV has been dominating the top 5 latest posts, and not in a good way. That's where those like us who like to dig deeper into a topic have to come into play. To fight this endless battle against ignorance and trolling. :S
Though the interesting question is what does explain trends in the Hype Meter. Rift steadily grabbed new ranks as more information was released to the press, then hit a #2 spot close enough to Guild Wars 2 (by 15 or 20 points? I might be wrong here) then it started dropping again while Guild Wars 2's hype went to the roof.
Same question could go to SW:TOR; If I remember, it was #1 early this summer, then felt lower and lower. It's quite possible some trolls are abusing the Hype Meter, though it's not like Rift got swarmed with bad ratings recently if you look at the number of votes. On the other end, Guild Wars 2 has between 2 and 3 times the number of vote, which is understandable due to the number of fans in here. Why is Guild Wars so high? It has a lot of fansites to maintain that hype, to discuss, analyze, dissect every glimpse of data it gets. A lot more than any other games ranked in the Hype Meter.
So yes, Hype Meter only a popularity contest. It may not mean much to some of us, and doesn't represent at all the quality of a game. Though it can be interesting to analyze its results and trends sometimes.
Star Wars: The Old Republic initially had very high hype because it's Star Wars. But as information got released, it's mostly been, here's a bit of Star Wars lore. Here's another piece of Star Wars lore. Have some more Star Wars lore. You want to know what the game is going to be like? Don't worry about that! Have some more Star Wars lore. And so the hype subsided.
Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, had the hype shoot upward because ArenaNet actually has things to talk about. For example, no tanks or healers in the traditional sense, and no pure damage dealers, either. There's also dynamic events, where what is going on changes from time to time and your actions affect the game world. There's having half your skillbar change on the fly when you change your weapon. There's being able to respec for free whenever you're out of combat. There's the linear leveling curve, in which the time taken to gain a level stops increasing. There's downed mode, and all players being able to resurrect all others. There's your personal story, in which the game not only has a storyline, but it varies greatly from one person to the next, depending on previous choices. There's personality, where NPCs will treat you differently depending on the choices you've made in the past. That's all game mechanics, not bland pieces of lore.
It's not that game lore is bad. It's that when that's all a game company has to talk about, either the game doesn't have much of a point or else it's being kept secret for the time being. Now granted, that hasn't been all that Rift: Plains of Telara has released. But look at the latest features list for this game here:
Or if switching between specs on a single character is your thing, then does this game offer the sort of versatility that Guild Wars does? That doesn't just let you swap between four fixed builds. You can change your build around however you like for free when you're in town. I think I've got more than a hundred builds saved there, and frequently go out using a build that isn't one of my saved ones. If so inclined, you could have four million saved builds available to a given character, with every single skill in the game available to players appearing in thousands of them. It's not just that one character can use all of the >1000 skills in the game. It's that once you have acquired those skills, you can switch between any of them as often as you like for free.
Yes, it does allow you to switch your points allocation within those builds. And you don't even have to be in town. Just not in combat. While you may only save four builds, you can change up those builds however you like, including swapping out the 8 different Souls (classes) that are available to your Calling.
After launch they plan to offer more and more specialized Souls (classes) for the 4 different Callings so there will be even more options. They may even up the number of builds that can be saved as well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Star Wars: The Old Republic initially had very high hype because it's Star Wars. But as information got released, it's mostly been, here's a bit of Star Wars lore. Here's another piece of Star Wars lore. Have some more Star Wars lore. You want to know what the game is going to be like? Don't worry about that! Have some more Star Wars lore. And so the hype subsided.
Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, had the hype shoot upward because ArenaNet actually has things to talk about. For example, no tanks or healers in the traditional sense, and no pure damage dealers, either. There's also dynamic events, where what is going on changes from time to time and your actions affect the game world. There's having half your skillbar change on the fly when you change your weapon. There's being able to respec for free whenever you're out of combat. There's the linear leveling curve, in which the time taken to gain a level stops increasing. There's downed mode, and all players being able to resurrect all others. There's your personal story, in which the game not only has a storyline, but it varies greatly from one person to the next, depending on previous choices. There's personality, where NPCs will treat you differently depending on the choices you've made in the past. That's all game mechanics, not bland pieces of lore.
It's not that game lore is bad. It's that when that's all a game company has to talk about, either the game doesn't have much of a point or else it's being kept secret for the time being. Now granted, that hasn't been all that Rift: Plains of Telara has released. But look at the latest features list for this game here:
Lots of lore and backstory, and some claims that, yeah, they've checked off a feature so that they also have features that most other MMORPGs.
Well, that's your problem right there. You confine yourself to this generic MMO website for that information. If you go to the game's actual website and visit it's forums you'll find, just like on any MMO official fourms, a forum post containing all of the features in the game that have been talked about along with the appropriate links/citations from where a developer talked about it. Heck, I even posted a link directly to said thread in the sticky at the top of this forum.
I can't, however, make everyone read through that sticky. I and others who have can only show those who make incorrect statements where to look to find accurate information.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
I'm a huge GW2 fan (9 on my Hype Meter, I do not give out 10's) and Rift definitely has my attention as well, which I gave an 8. I wouldn't blame it so much on GW2 as much as I would Final Fantasy. They are going down and probably want to take everyone with them.
GW2 fanboys is what happenned to the hype of this and every other game.
and I am ashamed to be a GW2 fan
I can't tell you how mind numbingly stupid it is to criticize people for being excited about one game over another.
Sebali is right. It's not being excited for one game over another. It's about downrating a game you know little about for a game you blindly like and also know little about. "My game is better!!!1" you see.. gw2 fanbois.
GW2 fanboys is what happenned to the hype of this and every other game.
and I am ashamed to be a GW2 fan
I can't tell you how mind numbingly stupid it is to criticize people for being excited about one game over another.
I don't think he was criticizing them for being excited. I think he was hinting that those fans are purposely voting a 0 for Rift and other non GW2 games in order to elevate GW2.
Of course, that's how I took what he wrote. If that's not what he meant he may probably explain it further.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
GW2 fanboys is what happenned to the hype of this and every other game.
and I am ashamed to be a GW2 fan
I can't tell you how mind numbingly stupid it is to criticize people for being excited about one game over another.
its not blaming someone for being excited, its blaming them for purposely lowballing EVERY OTHER GAME and chances are alot of them know nothing about the other games.
IMO rank GW2 all 10's. I dont care.
its seeing every other game drop .75 a point or more thats irritating.
let your game stand on its own merits, no need to badmouth everyone else IMO
TRION has some very interesting stuff coming out in the next 12 months.
RIFT looks to be promising and I'm not one to start hyping anything on any forum. For the first time in about 3 years, actively awaiting the release of more and more info about the game. Also, another first for me, I've actually signed up AND actively posting on the game forums even though I don't have alpha/beta access - and that says alot. This is new IP and it seems to be building itself up pretty good with the backing of some pretty damn good lore. Just to note, the last time I ever had this much anticipation was when I first saw WoW was being developed. (Horrible ain't it?? :P)
TRION also has ANOTHER very new game with new IP and a completely new take on MMO's that I think will shock general users. I don't think I've ever seen this nor have I ever heard of it being mentioned before by any game developer.
They are linking an action MMO to the Syfy channel where the game and television show evolves together and dependent upon your actions in the game. This is of great interest to me.
TRION Worlds has 2 new IP's coming out in which they are sinking a huge amount of money and talent in - they are truly investing in their product unlike the last 5 years of gaming where everyone is out for the quick buck - releasing games before they are done, etc etc. I know it seems like I'm such a fanboi but it's legitimate interest into some new IP and a new and very up-and-coming publisher.
Take a look at the stuff they are putting out and make up your own minds, all that I ask is that people actually LOOK before posting the same "It's just another WoW clone" crap. Lets also be honest, World of Warcraft was a gem in the rough for MMORPGs, it really thrust them into mainstream allowing publishers to sink these millions into the games and come out with some breakthrough concepts. There are others including Vanguard and DAOC, which had their awesome and dull parts - but what game doesn't? If anyone seriously thinks that any game coming out in the next 12-18 months won't initially feel and look somewhat like World of Warcraft, they are smoking some really bad mj. Also remember that WoW didn't look like it does now - AT ALL. It took half a decade and a HUGE amount of input, in not only player made UI's but player suggestions, to make the game what it is today.
Originally posted by lzanon Originally posted by vesavius It is now on the radar of the GW2 and whatever guys, and they see it as a threat, so they mark it to a zero. MMORPG hype has always been like this... mark your game up to 10, mark all other games down to zero. It's just that Rift has been flying under the radar of the followers of other games up to now. MMORPG.coms hype score os nothing to be celebrated or feared. It's junk.
if that be the case why isnt swtor and tera being slammed to the ground?
They have. TOR always used to be right above GW2. Ever since the GW2 fanbots went on the offensive TOR is barely an 8 now.
Just don't pay attention to the Hype Meter. It's a stupid tool as it is.
Well, that's your problem right there. You confine yourself to this generic MMO website for that information. If you go to the game's actual website and visit it's forums you'll find, just like on any MMO official fourms, a forum post containing all of the features in the game that have been talked about along with the appropriate links/citations from where a developer talked about it. Heck, I even posted a link directly to said thread in the sticky at the top of this forum.
I can't, however, make everyone read through that sticky. I and others who have can only show those who make incorrect statements where to look to find accurate information.
So I followed the link to the feature list. And what exactly does Rift have that, say, WoW doesn't? Based on that thread, I'd say it's about what I said before: the dynamic rifts plus somewhat more versatile classes. A generic WoW clone plus a couple minor tweaks isn't something to get terribly excited about. And I don't even like WoW.
Okay, so there are a few other things:
"Some of the combat mechanics include reactionary skills, positionals and chain attacks."
"You can soul walk once an hour..."
"No armor damage or repairs."
"NPC's may have goals and may react to the world."
But those are all minor things. The only things that I see on there that this game has but one wouldn't expect of a generic WoW clone is the dynamic rifts. And that doesn't strike me as enough to build a whole game around. Sure, there are people who want a WoW clone--and they're already playing WoW.
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I didn't previously know that you're restricted to souls within your own calling. That actually makes the class system vastly less versatile than I thought, as I previously expected it to allow for hybrid characters.
Well, that's your problem right there. You confine yourself to this generic MMO website for that information. If you go to the game's actual website and visit it's forums you'll find, just like on any MMO official fourms, a forum post containing all of the features in the game that have been talked about along with the appropriate links/citations from where a developer talked about it. Heck, I even posted a link directly to said thread in the sticky at the top of this forum.
I can't, however, make everyone read through that sticky. I and others who have can only show those who make incorrect statements where to look to find accurate information.
So I followed the link to the feature list. And what exactly does Rift have that, say, WoW doesn't? Based on that thread, I'd say it's about what I said before: the dynamic rifts plus somewhat more versatile classes. A generic WoW clone plus a couple minor tweaks isn't something to get terribly excited about. And I don't even like WoW.
Okay, so there are a few other things:
"Some of the combat mechanics include reactionary skills, positionals and chain attacks."
"You can soul walk once an hour..."
"No armor damage or repairs."
"NPC's may have goals and may react to the world."
But those are all minor things. The only things that I see on there that this game has but one wouldn't expect of a generic WoW clone is the dynamic rifts. And that doesn't strike me as enough to build a whole game around. Sure, there are people who want a WoW clone--and they're already playing WoW.
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I didn't previously know that you're restricted to souls within your own calling. That actually makes the class system vastly less versatile than I thought, as I previously expected it to allow for hybrid characters.
My point was not to debate you on Rift vs WoW. Indeed I'll be upfront and tell you straight I will not engage in doing that. I simply don't have an interest in doing something that all to many others are doing elsewhere.
No, my point was to show you that your statement of lore being the only information out primarily for the game and that there was no real feature list was indeed incorrect.
As far as the Soul System I'm afraid you take is not as "the real situation" as you may believe it to be. You have casually chosen to overlook what the different Souls within a calling can do (some have some affinity to the "roles" of other Callings) and additionally that future Heroic Souls Trion plans to introduce will sometimes have traits found in other Callings.
These are things one would know only if they followed the game very closely, though, I must admit. Which is why a review of my post history will show that I have made no such statements about, say, GW2 and its systems as I do not follow that game daily and don't know all of the "little secrets" it has in store.
I've seen Rogues that can function as a main tank on a dungeon crawl, Clerics that can melee with the best of them and Warriors that may be labeled buff bots, lol. Of course we don't have all the details right now but from the direction Trion has told those who follow closely as far as the Souls go we will indeed be able to make Hybrids.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Honestly I'm not excited about Rift one bit. And I love mmos. Hell I love indie mmos, but Rift has not shown anything and I mean ANYTHING I haven't seen before at this stage of the game. Graphics are cool, branching classes....meh, rift hotspots...double meh. When you've been exposed to the mmo horse and buggy as much as I have, putting some bling bilng on the buggy and upgrading the horse ain't gonna do nothing but make it seem like a prettier horse and buggy. It rides pretty much the same, controls the same and structured the same.
So I see it as a lot of people, myself included, as sitting in the back and waiting for something more to justify getting hype about it any more than we have. Nothing wrong with that, but I'm not gonna get crazy hyped about something so....so....traditional....
The reality is the "hype meter" has been dropping because Trion hasn't really released any new info since PAX. So people are getting antsy. The beta is also supposedly right around the corner so people are pissing and moaning about the lack of news on the beta.
Replying to your post directly, i understand that you're the type of person/gamer that likes things to be drastically different from what you've done previously before you can enjoy something. You probably couldn't eat hamburgers three days in a row for example.
But, that doesnt make your view correct. A lot of us like traditional. A lot of us have been waiting for traditional, while the developers have been busy trying to appease the "change" people. AoC's combat system wasnt enough, Aion's flight system wasn't enough. The reality is the change people constantly bitch that they want something "new and innovative" yet none of them can ever vocalize what that is, and they're never happy with anything developers come up with. Instead of looking at themselves as the problem, they blame developers, "traditionalists", etc. They really just don't know what they want, are probably bored with the genre, or bored with life in general, and are projecting their bullshit onto the rest of us.
The other thing i will never be able to wrap my head around is why people sign up and post in forums for games they dont like or have no intention of playing. I understand why trolls do it, they're trolls. But people who come on and make semi rational posts saying why they don't like this game....who gives a shit honestly. The people here are here because they like what they see. You are not a prophet, you're not going to suddenly convert us and make us "see the light".
We are all just as jaded and embittered as you, but we're willing to admit that we like what we like, and so be it.
I enjoyed the whole post but the last sentence....spot on.
No, my point was to show you that your statement of lore being the only information out primarily for the game and that there was no real feature list was indeed incorrect.
Go to the game's web page right now. Look at the news section. Some background lore, watch trailers on your cell phone, some more background lore, and still more background lore. Nothing about the game part of the online game. Yawn. And you wonder why that doesn't excite people?
For that matter, go to the class section and click on a class at random. A very brief and vague description, plus some background lore. Out of a page of text, there will maybe be a sentence or so about game mechanics on average. For someone interested in knowing about the game part of the online game, there isn't much there. Compare that to the class reveals for Guild Wars 2, which are mostly about game mechanics. My claim here isn't that Guild Wars 2 will be better than Rift: Planes of Telara, but rather, ArenaNet is doing a very good job of hyping their game and Trion isn't.
If Trion has much interesting to talk about, they're doing a pretty good job of hiding it. Of course, one could say the same of Final Fantasy XIV, and Square-Enix actually did have some interesting things that they could have talked about, but mysteriously said little to nothing about them, at least on their web site. For that matter, when I dug through the web site for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes about two years after release, I thought that the game hadn't yet released for quite a while. Still, those are the exceptions, and if a company doesn't have much to say about a game on their web site, it's because there isn't much interesting to be said about the game at all.
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The soul system in this game sure looks to me like four classes with eight skill/talent trees each. Maybe they're more complex and versatile skill trees than you'd see in most games. But that's a difference of degree, not a difference of type.
The real point of my posts here isn't to say that the game will be horrible. There are certainly people who like the old MMORPG conventions and don't want something all that different from them. That's how the old conventions came to be in the first place. And maybe Trion can make a good profit by catering to people who want that. Blizzard sure has.
Rather, my point is to answer the original question of the thread: why isn't there more hype for this game? And the answer is that people who want what this game has to offer can, for the most part, already find something similar in many other games already on the market.
Perhaps the most direct reason why the game is hyped as high as it is is that the point system basically curves things around the highest rated game. It used to be that by taking a straight average of the ratings, the top rated game would typically be between 6 and 7. So the site changed the system so that if the top rated game has a rating of x, then each game with a rating of r by taking a strict average would have is rating show as something like r + 5 - x/2. That probably isn't the exact formula, but it's something like that. Thus, instead of the top five games at a given time showing as ratings of 6.6, 6.4, 6.3, 6.25, and 6.2, they'd display as 8.3, 8.1, 8, 7.95, and 7.9. That keeps the order the same, but makes the ratings intuitively seem better.
It does, however, mean that if no one rates one particular game, but some other new game gets rated really highly, it makes the rating as displayed on the front page drop. That's exactly what has happened to this game: as the hype for Guild Wars 2 cranked up, it made everything else drop by comparison.
Still, is the real question why the game isn't hyped higher? Or why it is even as hyped as it is? What reasons are there for this game to be highly hyped? It's not coming from a studio with a strong track record, or any other track record, for that matter. It's not a well-known IP (which I don't think should make much difference, but it does to some people). There aren't revolutionary new game mechanics, or perhaps rather, if there are, then Trion isn't talking about them yet. Note how the hype on Guild Wars 2 shot upward once ArenaNet started talking about game mechanics; those mechanics had long since been in the game already, but didn't produce hype until people knew about them.
What does the game have in its favor? Lots of mobs spawning at rifts that show up in varying spots? Okay, that's kind of new, I guess, and perhaps beats a static distribution of mobs from a decade ago. But revolutionary? Hardly. The multi-class system is perhaps a little different twist on the usual class system. But only a little, and not a terribly interesting sounding twist, at least in theory.
And what about the classes themselves? We've gone from the tired old tank/healer/damage dealer routine to... tank, healer, physical damage dealer, and magic damage dealer. Could Trion have come up with a more stale classification of classes if they tried to? Is any particular class in this game something really new in terms of game mechanics, and not just a rehash of something that has been done many times before? If so, then Trion isn't talking about it yet--which is why it isn't registering on the hype meter yet.
endersshadow tried to address this above:
"Lets take the class system in RIFT -I haven't seen any other game that has given quite as much options when it comes to building a class. No other game will let you have 4 specs that I know of at least."
Does this game offer the sort of build versatility that Champions Online does? There you get one energy builder, 2 travel powers, and 13 other skills--and you can take whichever skills you like. You can pick your 14 skills from 14 different power sets if you prefer, though you'll miss out on some synergies between skills. The nearest thing to a "class" is a pair of super stats, and any of the 28 combinations are viable--and can be paired with most of the available skills and work just fine. There are a handful of skills that scale with certain stats. That's vastly more versatility in choosing a build than this game has, unless there's an awful lot of complexity that Trion is keeping secret for now.
Or if switching between specs on a single character is your thing, then does this game offer the sort of versatility that Guild Wars does? That doesn't just let you swap between four fixed builds. You can change your build around however you like for free when you're in town. I think I've got more than a hundred builds saved there, and frequently go out using a build that isn't one of my saved ones. If so inclined, you could have four million saved builds available to a given character, with every single skill in the game available to players appearing in thousands of them. It's not just that one character can use all of the >1000 skills in the game. It's that once you have acquired those skills, you can switch between any of them as often as you like for free.
Your not a troll by any means...I weigh that between your time here on the forums, post count and length/quality of the post. Its more of an art than a science.
But the whole time I was reading, it just seemed like your a guild wars 2 fan. And thats alright. Its definitely on my radar.
But dont delude yourself. Nothing they are doing in GuildWars2 is revolutionary. It looks really good at this point but until I hear a GW2 fan say something more than "ZOMG NO MORE HOLY TRINITY".....I remain skeptical.
Personally, I dont think breaking a system that has worked well, and removing a base class that many mmo fans have grown to love, is a good start to what many are calling the answer to our MMO dreams.
Perhaps the most direct reason why the game is hyped as high as it is is that the point system basically curves things around the highest rated game. It used to be that by taking a straight average of the ratings, the top rated game would typically be between 6 and 7. So the site changed the system so that if the top rated game has a rating of x, then each game with a rating of r by taking a strict average would have is rating show as something like r + 5 - x/2. That probably isn't the exact formula, but it's something like that. Thus, instead of the top five games at a given time showing as ratings of 6.6, 6.4, 6.3, 6.25, and 6.2, they'd display as 8.3, 8.1, 8, 7.95, and 7.9. That keeps the order the same, but makes the ratings intuitively seem better.
It does, however, mean that if no one rates one particular game, but some other new game gets rated really highly, it makes the rating as displayed on the front page drop. That's exactly what has happened to this game: as the hype for Guild Wars 2 cranked up, it made everything else drop by comparison.
Still, is the real question why the game isn't hyped higher? Or why it is even as hyped as it is? What reasons are there for this game to be highly hyped? It's not coming from a studio with a strong track record, or any other track record, for that matter. It's not a well-known IP (which I don't think should make much difference, but it does to some people). There aren't revolutionary new game mechanics, or perhaps rather, if there are, then Trion isn't talking about them yet. Note how the hype on Guild Wars 2 shot upward once ArenaNet started talking about game mechanics; those mechanics had long since been in the game already, but didn't produce hype until people knew about them.
What does the game have in its favor? Lots of mobs spawning at rifts that show up in varying spots? Okay, that's kind of new, I guess, and perhaps beats a static distribution of mobs from a decade ago. But revolutionary? Hardly. The multi-class system is perhaps a little different twist on the usual class system. But only a little, and not a terribly interesting sounding twist, at least in theory.
And what about the classes themselves? We've gone from the tired old tank/healer/damage dealer routine to... tank, healer, physical damage dealer, and magic damage dealer. Could Trion have come up with a more stale classification of classes if they tried to? Is any particular class in this game something really new in terms of game mechanics, and not just a rehash of something that has been done many times before? If so, then Trion isn't talking about it yet--which is why it isn't registering on the hype meter yet.
endersshadow tried to address this above:
"Lets take the class system in RIFT -I haven't seen any other game that has given quite as much options when it comes to building a class. No other game will let you have 4 specs that I know of at least."
Does this game offer the sort of build versatility that Champions Online does? There you get one energy builder, 2 travel powers, and 13 other skills--and you can take whichever skills you like. You can pick your 14 skills from 14 different power sets if you prefer, though you'll miss out on some synergies between skills. The nearest thing to a "class" is a pair of super stats, and any of the 28 combinations are viable--and can be paired with most of the available skills and work just fine. There are a handful of skills that scale with certain stats. That's vastly more versatility in choosing a build than this game has, unless there's an awful lot of complexity that Trion is keeping secret for now.
Or if switching between specs on a single character is your thing, then does this game offer the sort of versatility that Guild Wars does? That doesn't just let you swap between four fixed builds. You can change your build around however you like for free when you're in town. I think I've got more than a hundred builds saved there, and frequently go out using a build that isn't one of my saved ones. If so inclined, you could have four million saved builds available to a given character, with every single skill in the game available to players appearing in thousands of them. It's not just that one character can use all of the >1000 skills in the game. It's that once you have acquired those skills, you can switch between any of them as often as you like for free.
Your not a troll by any means...I weigh that between your time here on the forums, post count and length/quality of the post. Its more of an art than a science.
But the whole time I was reading, it just seemed like your a guild wars 2 fan. And thats alright. Its definitely on my radar.
But dont delude yourself. Nothing they are doing in GuildWars2 is revolutionary. It looks really good at this point but until I hear a GW2 fan say something more than "ZOMG NO MORE HOLY TRINITY".....I remain skeptical.
Personally, I dont think breaking a system that has worked well, and removing a base class that many mmo fans have grown to love, is a good start to what many are calling the answer to our MMO dreams.
Unless it's a base class that you HATE, from a system that has gotten on your nerves for years.
1600 dynamic events.... that sounds kinda revolutionary to me.
Comments
I guess Rifts drop is due to little information released dispite that it may seems alot has been released in the past month or so.
What seems to be interesting for me about Rifts is it does bring alot of things that may have been done before in a way or so and have them all intergrated.
The rift concept reminds me alot of oblivion, the oblivion gates randomly opening up on the world. and how they bring mobs in and stage an attack at a town ala tabula rasa. the attack the town part is what has me excited as it was one of the best parts tabula rasa had.
Well for me it is sad that it does seem many are brushing the potential the game does have .
I've lowered my rating a little bit, but then again I've done that on all the games I was excited about, lol. It seems the more I hear, the less I want to play something.
I think what caused me to lower was hearing about battlegrounds you queue for (think that was this game). I just really dislike that system, so my score went down a little. I'm usually honest about my hypes, although I do often forget to update them, lol.
A lot of people probably give really low scores to MMOs they haven't even looked at especially if they are in direct competition from their "chosen" game.
I was going to update all my hypes after reading this thread since I rarely think about it, but found out I can only edit 2 per day, hehe.
I'm looking into RIFTs, but I can't say I know that much about it. It's the game I'll most likely play if SW:TOR and GW2 somehow fail to hold my attention.
I think the problem is that Trion simply isn't doing enough to hype their game.
Perhaps the most direct reason why the game is hyped as high as it is is that the point system basically curves things around the highest rated game. It used to be that by taking a straight average of the ratings, the top rated game would typically be between 6 and 7. So the site changed the system so that if the top rated game has a rating of x, then each game with a rating of r by taking a strict average would have is rating show as something like r + 5 - x/2. That probably isn't the exact formula, but it's something like that. Thus, instead of the top five games at a given time showing as ratings of 6.6, 6.4, 6.3, 6.25, and 6.2, they'd display as 8.3, 8.1, 8, 7.95, and 7.9. That keeps the order the same, but makes the ratings intuitively seem better.
It does, however, mean that if no one rates one particular game, but some other new game gets rated really highly, it makes the rating as displayed on the front page drop. That's exactly what has happened to this game: as the hype for Guild Wars 2 cranked up, it made everything else drop by comparison.
Still, is the real question why the game isn't hyped higher? Or why it is even as hyped as it is? What reasons are there for this game to be highly hyped? It's not coming from a studio with a strong track record, or any other track record, for that matter. It's not a well-known IP (which I don't think should make much difference, but it does to some people). There aren't revolutionary new game mechanics, or perhaps rather, if there are, then Trion isn't talking about them yet. Note how the hype on Guild Wars 2 shot upward once ArenaNet started talking about game mechanics; those mechanics had long since been in the game already, but didn't produce hype until people knew about them.
What does the game have in its favor? Lots of mobs spawning at rifts that show up in varying spots? Okay, that's kind of new, I guess, and perhaps beats a static distribution of mobs from a decade ago. But revolutionary? Hardly. The multi-class system is perhaps a little different twist on the usual class system. But only a little, and not a terribly interesting sounding twist, at least in theory.
And what about the classes themselves? We've gone from the tired old tank/healer/damage dealer routine to... tank, healer, physical damage dealer, and magic damage dealer. Could Trion have come up with a more stale classification of classes if they tried to? Is any particular class in this game something really new in terms of game mechanics, and not just a rehash of something that has been done many times before? If so, then Trion isn't talking about it yet--which is why it isn't registering on the hype meter yet.
endersshadow tried to address this above:
"Lets take the class system in RIFT -I haven't seen any other game that has given quite as much options when it comes to building a class. No other game will let you have 4 specs that I know of at least."
Does this game offer the sort of build versatility that Champions Online does? There you get one energy builder, 2 travel powers, and 13 other skills--and you can take whichever skills you like. You can pick your 14 skills from 14 different power sets if you prefer, though you'll miss out on some synergies between skills. The nearest thing to a "class" is a pair of super stats, and any of the 28 combinations are viable--and can be paired with most of the available skills and work just fine. There are a handful of skills that scale with certain stats. That's vastly more versatility in choosing a build than this game has, unless there's an awful lot of complexity that Trion is keeping secret for now.
Or if switching between specs on a single character is your thing, then does this game offer the sort of versatility that Guild Wars does? That doesn't just let you swap between four fixed builds. You can change your build around however you like for free when you're in town. I think I've got more than a hundred builds saved there, and frequently go out using a build that isn't one of my saved ones. If so inclined, you could have four million saved builds available to a given character, with every single skill in the game available to players appearing in thousands of them. It's not just that one character can use all of the >1000 skills in the game. It's that once you have acquired those skills, you can switch between any of them as often as you like for free.
Quzzical's first two paragraph fairly represent the rating system here. The ratings are statistically adjusted to improve all of the games ratings but that adjustment is effected by the highest rated game. When the top rated game gets a naturally high rating(one given by the members) all other game rating adjustments are reduced and thus reflect a score closer to what the members here really gave it.
That's a valid concern. And I wonder if that's why this 'Hype Meter' is so low in the front page (you have to scroll to the bottom to see it). This concern also applies to any kind of tools where it becomes easy to post your opinion. If you look at what's going on, you'll notice that FFXIV has been dominating the top 5 latest posts, and not in a good way. That's where those like us who like to dig deeper into a topic have to come into play. To fight this endless battle against ignorance and trolling. :S
Though the interesting question is what does explain trends in the Hype Meter. Rift steadily grabbed new ranks as more information was released to the press, then hit a #2 spot close enough to Guild Wars 2 (by 15 or 20 points? I might be wrong here) then it started dropping again while Guild Wars 2's hype went to the roof.
Same question could go to SW:TOR; If I remember, it was #1 early this summer, then felt lower and lower. It's quite possible some trolls are abusing the Hype Meter, though it's not like Rift got swarmed with bad ratings recently if you look at the number of votes. On the other end, Guild Wars 2 has between 2 and 3 times the number of vote, which is understandable due to the number of fans in here. Why is Guild Wars so high? It has a lot of fansites to maintain that hype, to discuss, analyze, dissect every glimpse of data it gets. A lot more than any other games ranked in the Hype Meter.
So yes, Hype Meter only a popularity contest. It may not mean much to some of us, and doesn't represent at all the quality of a game. Though it can be interesting to analyze its results and trends sometimes.
And oh NO HARD FEELINGS BRO!
Star Wars: The Old Republic initially had very high hype because it's Star Wars. But as information got released, it's mostly been, here's a bit of Star Wars lore. Here's another piece of Star Wars lore. Have some more Star Wars lore. You want to know what the game is going to be like? Don't worry about that! Have some more Star Wars lore. And so the hype subsided.
Guild Wars 2, on the other hand, had the hype shoot upward because ArenaNet actually has things to talk about. For example, no tanks or healers in the traditional sense, and no pure damage dealers, either. There's also dynamic events, where what is going on changes from time to time and your actions affect the game world. There's having half your skillbar change on the fly when you change your weapon. There's being able to respec for free whenever you're out of combat. There's the linear leveling curve, in which the time taken to gain a level stops increasing. There's downed mode, and all players being able to resurrect all others. There's your personal story, in which the game not only has a storyline, but it varies greatly from one person to the next, depending on previous choices. There's personality, where NPCs will treat you differently depending on the choices you've made in the past. That's all game mechanics, not bland pieces of lore.
It's not that game lore is bad. It's that when that's all a game company has to talk about, either the game doesn't have much of a point or else it's being kept secret for the time being. Now granted, that hasn't been all that Rift: Plains of Telara has released. But look at the latest features list for this game here:
http://www.mmorpg.com/gamelist.cfm/game/431/view/features
Lots of lore and backstory, and some claims that, yeah, they've checked off a feature so that they also have features that most other MMORPGs.
Yes, it does allow you to switch your points allocation within those builds. And you don't even have to be in town. Just not in combat. While you may only save four builds, you can change up those builds however you like, including swapping out the 8 different Souls (classes) that are available to your Calling.
After launch they plan to offer more and more specialized Souls (classes) for the 4 different Callings so there will be even more options. They may even up the number of builds that can be saved as well.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
Well, that's your problem right there. You confine yourself to this generic MMO website for that information. If you go to the game's actual website and visit it's forums you'll find, just like on any MMO official fourms, a forum post containing all of the features in the game that have been talked about along with the appropriate links/citations from where a developer talked about it. Heck, I even posted a link directly to said thread in the sticky at the top of this forum.
I can't, however, make everyone read through that sticky. I and others who have can only show those who make incorrect statements where to look to find accurate information.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
GW2 fanboys is
what
happenned to the
hype of this and
every other game.
I can't tell you how mind numbingly stupid it is to criticize people for being excited about one game over another.
I'm a huge GW2 fan (9 on my Hype Meter, I do not give out 10's) and Rift definitely has my attention as well, which I gave an 8. I wouldn't blame it so much on GW2 as much as I would Final Fantasy. They are going down and probably want to take everyone with them.
Sebali is right. It's not being excited for one game over another. It's about downrating a game you know little about for a game you blindly like and also know little about. "My game is better!!!1" you see.. gw2 fanbois.
I don't think he was criticizing them for being excited. I think he was hinting that those fans are purposely voting a 0 for Rift and other non GW2 games in order to elevate GW2.
Of course, that's how I took what he wrote. If that's not what he meant he may probably explain it further.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
its not blaming someone for being excited, its blaming them for purposely lowballing EVERY OTHER GAME and chances are alot of them know nothing about the other games.
IMO rank GW2 all 10's. I dont care.
its seeing every other game drop .75 a point or more thats irritating.
let your game stand on its own merits, no need to badmouth everyone else IMO
TRION has some very interesting stuff coming out in the next 12 months.
RIFT looks to be promising and I'm not one to start hyping anything on any forum. For the first time in about 3 years, actively awaiting the release of more and more info about the game. Also, another first for me, I've actually signed up AND actively posting on the game forums even though I don't have alpha/beta access - and that says alot. This is new IP and it seems to be building itself up pretty good with the backing of some pretty damn good lore. Just to note, the last time I ever had this much anticipation was when I first saw WoW was being developed. (Horrible ain't it?? :P)
TRION also has ANOTHER very new game with new IP and a completely new take on MMO's that I think will shock general users. I don't think I've ever seen this nor have I ever heard of it being mentioned before by any game developer.
http://www.trionworlds.com/en/games/syfy-action-mmo.php
They are linking an action MMO to the Syfy channel where the game and television show evolves together and dependent upon your actions in the game. This is of great interest to me.
TRION Worlds has 2 new IP's coming out in which they are sinking a huge amount of money and talent in - they are truly investing in their product unlike the last 5 years of gaming where everyone is out for the quick buck - releasing games before they are done, etc etc. I know it seems like I'm such a fanboi but it's legitimate interest into some new IP and a new and very up-and-coming publisher.
Take a look at the stuff they are putting out and make up your own minds, all that I ask is that people actually LOOK before posting the same "It's just another WoW clone" crap. Lets also be honest, World of Warcraft was a gem in the rough for MMORPGs, it really thrust them into mainstream allowing publishers to sink these millions into the games and come out with some breakthrough concepts. There are others including Vanguard and DAOC, which had their awesome and dull parts - but what game doesn't? If anyone seriously thinks that any game coming out in the next 12-18 months won't initially feel and look somewhat like World of Warcraft, they are smoking some really bad mj. Also remember that WoW didn't look like it does now - AT ALL. It took half a decade and a HUGE amount of input, in not only player made UI's but player suggestions, to make the game what it is today.
They have. TOR always used to be right above GW2. Ever since the GW2 fanbots went on the offensive TOR is barely an 8 now.
Just don't pay attention to the Hype Meter. It's a stupid tool as it is.
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So I followed the link to the feature list. And what exactly does Rift have that, say, WoW doesn't? Based on that thread, I'd say it's about what I said before: the dynamic rifts plus somewhat more versatile classes. A generic WoW clone plus a couple minor tweaks isn't something to get terribly excited about. And I don't even like WoW.
Okay, so there are a few other things:
"Some of the combat mechanics include reactionary skills, positionals and chain attacks."
"You can soul walk once an hour..."
"No armor damage or repairs."
"NPC's may have goals and may react to the world."
But those are all minor things. The only things that I see on there that this game has but one wouldn't expect of a generic WoW clone is the dynamic rifts. And that doesn't strike me as enough to build a whole game around. Sure, there are people who want a WoW clone--and they're already playing WoW.
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I didn't previously know that you're restricted to souls within your own calling. That actually makes the class system vastly less versatile than I thought, as I previously expected it to allow for hybrid characters.
Actually, I think that End of Nations sounds like it could be pretty interesting. But that's not a reason to hype this game.
I completely agree, however the discussion seemed to highlight TRION, in a way.
My point was not to debate you on Rift vs WoW. Indeed I'll be upfront and tell you straight I will not engage in doing that. I simply don't have an interest in doing something that all to many others are doing elsewhere.
No, my point was to show you that your statement of lore being the only information out primarily for the game and that there was no real feature list was indeed incorrect.
As far as the Soul System I'm afraid you take is not as "the real situation" as you may believe it to be. You have casually chosen to overlook what the different Souls within a calling can do (some have some affinity to the "roles" of other Callings) and additionally that future Heroic Souls Trion plans to introduce will sometimes have traits found in other Callings.
These are things one would know only if they followed the game very closely, though, I must admit. Which is why a review of my post history will show that I have made no such statements about, say, GW2 and its systems as I do not follow that game daily and don't know all of the "little secrets" it has in store.
I've seen Rogues that can function as a main tank on a dungeon crawl, Clerics that can melee with the best of them and Warriors that may be labeled buff bots, lol. Of course we don't have all the details right now but from the direction Trion has told those who follow closely as far as the Souls go we will indeed be able to make Hybrids.
"Many nights, my friend... Many nights I've put a blade to your throat while you were sleeping. Glad I never killed you, Steve. You're alright..."
Chavez y Chavez
I enjoyed the whole post but the last sentence....spot on.
Go to the game's web page right now. Look at the news section. Some background lore, watch trailers on your cell phone, some more background lore, and still more background lore. Nothing about the game part of the online game. Yawn. And you wonder why that doesn't excite people?
For that matter, go to the class section and click on a class at random. A very brief and vague description, plus some background lore. Out of a page of text, there will maybe be a sentence or so about game mechanics on average. For someone interested in knowing about the game part of the online game, there isn't much there. Compare that to the class reveals for Guild Wars 2, which are mostly about game mechanics. My claim here isn't that Guild Wars 2 will be better than Rift: Planes of Telara, but rather, ArenaNet is doing a very good job of hyping their game and Trion isn't.
If Trion has much interesting to talk about, they're doing a pretty good job of hiding it. Of course, one could say the same of Final Fantasy XIV, and Square-Enix actually did have some interesting things that they could have talked about, but mysteriously said little to nothing about them, at least on their web site. For that matter, when I dug through the web site for Vanguard: Saga of Heroes about two years after release, I thought that the game hadn't yet released for quite a while. Still, those are the exceptions, and if a company doesn't have much to say about a game on their web site, it's because there isn't much interesting to be said about the game at all.
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The soul system in this game sure looks to me like four classes with eight skill/talent trees each. Maybe they're more complex and versatile skill trees than you'd see in most games. But that's a difference of degree, not a difference of type.
The real point of my posts here isn't to say that the game will be horrible. There are certainly people who like the old MMORPG conventions and don't want something all that different from them. That's how the old conventions came to be in the first place. And maybe Trion can make a good profit by catering to people who want that. Blizzard sure has.
Rather, my point is to answer the original question of the thread: why isn't there more hype for this game? And the answer is that people who want what this game has to offer can, for the most part, already find something similar in many other games already on the market.
Your not a troll by any means...I weigh that between your time here on the forums, post count and length/quality of the post. Its more of an art than a science.
But the whole time I was reading, it just seemed like your a guild wars 2 fan. And thats alright. Its definitely on my radar.
But dont delude yourself. Nothing they are doing in GuildWars2 is revolutionary. It looks really good at this point but until I hear a GW2 fan say something more than "ZOMG NO MORE HOLY TRINITY".....I remain skeptical.
Personally, I dont think breaking a system that has worked well, and removing a base class that many mmo fans have grown to love, is a good start to what many are calling the answer to our MMO dreams.
Unless it's a base class that you HATE, from a system that has gotten on your nerves for years.
1600 dynamic events.... that sounds kinda revolutionary to me.