If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
People would log into SWG and be like "WTF?!? This don't feel like Star Wars at all." and quit... Oh wait... that's no different than what I did when SWG went live...
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I believe that the core mechanics and world of Pre-CU/NGE SWG - notwithstanding its many unaddressed problems - will probably end up laying shame upon TOR as an interesting "game". But I think that TOR will most likely be an easy to understand interactive movie and chatroom, and I would guess that it will certainly be more popular with the masses of post WoW generation players (now) than SWG would.
So what could a game like Pre-CU/NGE have become with faith, dedication, and a dev team who didn't have to take their marching orders largely from ill informed bean counters? Well I guess we'll never know. Because two or three giant egos in this thread have kindly informed us - in no uncertain terms - that "Pre-CU/NGE is dead, get over it". You guys are so f'ing brilliant. I want to have your babies.
My vote goes to SWTOR. I played SWG through all it's stages and I thought the CU was the best of the three. Pre-CU felt like the most broken mess (don't get me wrong, the game has always been broken) of a game that I ever played. It wasn't flawed the same way the CU or the NGE was, they all had different ones, CU just felt the most playable.
I'm pretty sure it would make no difference whether they put up Pre-CU servers or not. They'd still find a way to mess up, they don't put love into the game. Bioware, on the other hand, look as though they are going to get it right. They care about the stuff they release, not just push it out the chute unfinished like what SOE did with SWG.
I believe that the core mechanics and world of Pre-CU/NGE SWG - notwithstanding its many unaddressed problems - will probably end up laying shame upon TOR as an interesting "game". But I think that TOR will most likely be an easy to understand interactive movie and chatroom, and I would guess that it will certainly be more popular with the masses of post WoW generation players (now) than SWG would.
So what could a game like Pre-CU/NGE have become with faith, dedication, and a dev team who didn't have to take their marching orders largely from ill informed bean counters? Well I guess we'll never know. Because two or three giant egos in this thread have kindly informed us - in no uncertain terms - that "Pre-CU/NGE is dead, get over it". You guys are so f'ing brilliant. I want to have your babies.
The 'nothwithstanding its many unaddressed problems' clause is really the key point here. I played SWG pre-CU and had fun for a while but these 'unadressed problems' sucked the enjoyment out of it.
In the end a game with great concepts and core mechanics but with crappy implementation will be crappy. For me SWG was an 'interesting' but crappy game. It is the equivalent of the Last Airbender movie. Great base material, great concept, big fanbase and and implementation that had people want to tear their hair out.
Well TOR has a huge budget at its disposal so more money to throw at advertising and for polishing the game up. I think if I had to make a decision than yes I would probably say TOR, but if they polished up SWG and did perhaps a remake or a game overhall than I think SWG would have a longer lasting future ahead of it. Don't get me wrong I havent played TOR so I do not know the full ins and outs of how the game works but based on what I know so far, SWG would just have so much more depth to it than your usual script written theme park game. I personally think that the theme park market is overwhelmed with these type of games whether it be WOW, AOC, LOTRO or whatever.
They have spent a huge amount of money on this game and I am not entirely conviced that they will comfortably make the huge profits they think they will. But then again I havent played it so I am just going on my opinion so far.
And come on guys lay of the SWG Pre-CU fans. This is a discussions forum to talk about anything MMORPG. If they want to talk about that, let them talk about it, don't like it, don't post. Simples ;-)
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
TOR hands down.
They could open up a pre cu server today and would never get over 50-100 k people playing on it.
They may have a huge infulx of players on day one, but by the next day over half of those people would be gone. Most would not even play it unless it had a 7 day free trial.
I believe that the core mechanics and world of Pre-CU/NGE SWG - notwithstanding its many unaddressed problems - will probably end up laying shame upon TOR as an interesting "game". But I think that TOR will most likely be an easy to understand interactive movie and chatroom, and I would guess that it will certainly be more popular with the masses of post WoW generation players (now) than SWG would.
So what could a game like Pre-CU/NGE have become with faith, dedication, and a dev team who didn't have to take their marching orders largely from ill informed bean counters? Well I guess we'll never know. Because two or three giant egos in this thread have kindly informed us - in no uncertain terms - that "Pre-CU/NGE is dead, get over it". You guys are so f'ing brilliant. I want to have your babies.
Has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game rather than the quality of the game.
The game lacks quality. If they fixed all the problems, updated the servers, and improved the graphics , than the game may stand some kind of a chance. People expect quality games now adays, not something that is half assed thrown together.
Besides this, FF14 shares a pretty similiar unique leveling/ranking system... May not be just like swg pre cu, but it is very similiar. Then again they do not have pvp, housing, space, bases, or any of the other things people loved about swg pre cu.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
I played SWG pre-cu/nge I remember getting all excited about it and then when I logged in and started playing all I could think is... what the hell did I just spend my money on, there was no game play, it was freaking boring. Now it may have had freedom, but that was all that game had, you were free to be a moisture farmer! Oh yea! Lol. I'm glad there are so many vocal vets that enjoyed the game back then but that game failed and for a reason.
Overall sandbox type games will never have the same appeal as games that have a more linear track. Simply put most people whether they realize it or not like a little direction. Most people don't want second life but set in the star wars universe. They want to be a part of the Star Wars story part of the things that make the universe grand and exciting. They want to be Luke or Han, not Luke's Uncle.
I have played, beta'd, and tried most mmo's that have come out in the last 7 or so years, and very few of them have managed to maintain my attention for more then a month or so, even if they don't I give them time to grow and give them another chance but the same thing still happens. If TOR can keep my attention even if it feels more like a single player game then a mmo I will be happy.
That being said a mmorpg is an rpg game that takes place in an online world that can be played by multiple users at the same time together. TOR is an mmo it is an rpg that is set in an online world designed to be played with other players. So all the people arguing that it isnt an mmo are just being ridiculous, it is one but if you dont want to play it no one says you have to. So instead of complaining, take the time to either try it when it comes out and see if you will enjoy it, or just forget about it and move on, there are many other games out there that might suit your play style.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
One game is not even released and the other released 7 years ago and died 5 years ago.
Does the phrase "get over it" mean anything to you.
“It's unwise to pay too much, but it's worse to pay too little. When you pay too much, you lose a little money - that's all. When you pay too little, you sometimes lose everything, because the thing you bought was incapable of doing the thing it was bought to do. The common law of business balance prohibits paying a little and getting a lot - it can't be done. If you deal with the lowest bidder, it is well to add something for the risk you run, and if you do that you will have enough to pay for something better.”
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
SWG has had a full, lengthy trial for years. If they haven't tried it by now, they'll never try it.
The most subs(the absolute CEILING) pre-NGE classic servers would get is the number they had just before going NGE. Those that left before then, wanted to leave for reasons other than NGE, and there's no reason to think they'll want to come back. And there's no reason to think new players will want to go back to a buggy 7 year old game, with so many newer alternatives out there, now.
Most of my friends who were SW fans weren't MMO fans. When they read about what SWG pre-NGE had to offer, they had no interest in the game.
On the other hand, many of them played KotOR and LOVED it. And they're very interested in seeing what KotR is going to be. If all they did was make KotR with 5 times the content and with other players running around, those people will probably be pretty happy, at least for a while.
If you spent alot of time thinking about this, you really really wasted your time. Classic SWG is NOT gonna happen, at least not by SOE's hands.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
If so swg would get about 100k subscribers back and Tor about 500k. Both would lose some players early on and in 3 months there´s 20k playing swg and 300k playing tor. Sometimes the past makes things shine alot brighter then it ever was.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
This would actually be really funny. On one hand you have a game with a $100 million + budget with an epic storyline made by one of the most celebrated game design studios in the business. The game is made with a cutting-edge reactive combat system and a unique, changeable storyline for each class.
On the other hand, you have a dated game with almost 0 content, extremely sub-par controls and gameplay mechanics, but with some good sandbox elements. Some older players who loved SWG might stick around because of nostalgia alone... but I suspect the majority would suddenly realize how inferior the game really is and would quit right away. The vast majority would play the new game.
That is my opinion at least. I never liked SWG despite attempting to get into it several times. The game had some great elements, but it was horribly executed in my opinion. It was never as good as the SWG vets remember it being.
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
If ToR and Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers hit live at same time, which would garner the most players on day 1?
Think about it, how many folks, who have never played SWG but have read about it on every mmo forum in existence would be interested in trying it as apposed to trying out a New game like ToR?
ToR may be the most anticipated new/big budget game but wihich one has had the most forum press over the last 6-7 years?
Tbh, and I have actually spent alot of time thinking about this, I think Pre-CU SWG "Classic" servers would have more interest then ToR. Granted, it's just my opinion based on my own observations of all the different game forums I have experienced but I still see more "Press" for Pre-CU SWG then I do ToR.
Let's consider some things about this point, first is this pre cu server actually going to be pay to play or something folks will be able to try for free? I am a pre cu SWG vet and I can quite honestly say simply because as a community we are very vocal doesn't mean our opinions are respected by those who only know about pre cu through us.
In general the commentary by SWG vets is more often than not unreasonable,mean spirited and plain rude while some folks may look at this and think "wow if the game get's them this passionate maybe I should try it" but I don't see that number in any way shape or form ever being able to reach the number of people that an unblemished company like Bioware can.
SWG NEVER cracked the four hundred thousand player mark, and by design it would never appeal to the average WOW or TOR player (just like it didn't appeal to even all the mmo fans out there when it was first released).
I can understand someone not totally enthused about TOR hoping something like this would be possible but I don't see any logic behind this only a point driven by the emotions.
And honestly you see more press for pre CU than for TOR? Are you sure it's not because that is what you are looking for, with the exception of SWG vets no one is asking for pre cu servers this is not to my knowledge even a desire very often expressed on the SWG site now, sure a few bitter vets sub to post the desire for one but it's not the full time player base asking for this.
At the end of the day though I would not even play pre cu SWG because it was simply a flawed game that required far too much work by a company that has shown themselves able to pull the rug from under the players with deceptive practices. Anyone remember the expansion that was wiped out basically a month after it launched? The bugs that remained until the day I quit that game are just not things I would be willing to accept anymore.
Let me make an analogy for those of us who get far too wrapped up in video games, I loved my old 1980 Sunbird (first car I owned) even with the steel for a floor and I had some of the most awesome times in that car but would I trade in the Sebring for it? Not a chance.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I prefer Pre-CU SWG's gameplay anyday of the week, any hour. It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.
Anyways, there's got to be alot of IF'S if I go back to Pre-CU SWG.
a) The Pre-CU SWG / classic server(s) would be nice, but I want to see commitment in improving the game but still keep to the core Pre-CU gameplay.
b) A major factor before I even consider going back to SWG: Is SOE handling it? If so, they can still go f**k themselves and go to hell.
If the factors above are met, I'd be very curious to see if the community it does develop was anywhere near the same as the one that existed before SOE told everyone to suck on it or f**k off. The player community back then was large, vibrant, and tight knit. Something I haven't seen in other MMORPGs since Pre-CU SWG's days. Other communities I've seen have some of those characteristics, but not all three anymore.
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
I prefer Pre-CU SWG's gameplay anyday of the week, any hour. It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.
Anyways, there's got to be alot of IF'S if I go back to Pre-CU SWG.
a) The Pre-CU SWG / classic server(s) would be nice, but I want to see commitment in improving the game but still keep to the core Pre-CU gameplay.
b) A major factor before I even consider going back to SWG: Is SOE handling it? If so, they can still go f**k themselves and go to hell.
If the factors above are met, I'd be very curious to see if the community it does develop was anywhere near the same as the one that existed before SOE told everyone to suck on it or f**k off. The player community back then was large, vibrant, and tight knit. Something I haven't seen in other MMORPGs since Pre-CU SWG's days. Other communities I've seen have some of those characteristics, but not all three anymore.
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
you can't build a city in LOTRO, even as a crafter that never engages in combat you still had to level to get mats of higher levels, so really you still had to engage in combat. What sort of mini-games did LOTRO have? NONE! ooh you could drink beer, that only lasts for so long. The music system in LOTRO is nice though.
Sandbox MMO's offer alot more variety and compelling content in their games then theme-park MMO's do (again my opinion).
Comments
How is that any better than SOE ?
Since EA has taken over, Bioware has started to produce crap.
Dragon Age 2 will be an action game version of DA1.
Mass Effect 2 already was an action game version of ME1.
Will SWTOR be a success ? Still possible. But not guaranteed. At all.
People would log into SWG and be like "WTF?!? This don't feel like Star Wars at all." and quit... Oh wait... that's no different than what I did when SWG went live...
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I believe that the core mechanics and world of Pre-CU/NGE SWG - notwithstanding its many unaddressed problems - will probably end up laying shame upon TOR as an interesting "game". But I think that TOR will most likely be an easy to understand interactive movie and chatroom, and I would guess that it will certainly be more popular with the masses of post WoW generation players (now) than SWG would.
So what could a game like Pre-CU/NGE have become with faith, dedication, and a dev team who didn't have to take their marching orders largely from ill informed bean counters? Well I guess we'll never know. Because two or three giant egos in this thread have kindly informed us - in no uncertain terms - that "Pre-CU/NGE is dead, get over it". You guys are so f'ing brilliant. I want to have your babies.
My vote goes to SWTOR. I played SWG through all it's stages and I thought the CU was the best of the three. Pre-CU felt like the most broken mess (don't get me wrong, the game has always been broken) of a game that I ever played. It wasn't flawed the same way the CU or the NGE was, they all had different ones, CU just felt the most playable.
I'm pretty sure it would make no difference whether they put up Pre-CU servers or not. They'd still find a way to mess up, they don't put love into the game. Bioware, on the other hand, look as though they are going to get it right. They care about the stuff they release, not just push it out the chute unfinished like what SOE did with SWG.
The 'nothwithstanding its many unaddressed problems' clause is really the key point here. I played SWG pre-CU and had fun for a while but these 'unadressed problems' sucked the enjoyment out of it.
In the end a game with great concepts and core mechanics but with crappy implementation will be crappy. For me SWG was an 'interesting' but crappy game. It is the equivalent of the Last Airbender movie. Great base material, great concept, big fanbase and and implementation that had people want to tear their hair out.
Well TOR has a huge budget at its disposal so more money to throw at advertising and for polishing the game up. I think if I had to make a decision than yes I would probably say TOR, but if they polished up SWG and did perhaps a remake or a game overhall than I think SWG would have a longer lasting future ahead of it. Don't get me wrong I havent played TOR so I do not know the full ins and outs of how the game works but based on what I know so far, SWG would just have so much more depth to it than your usual script written theme park game. I personally think that the theme park market is overwhelmed with these type of games whether it be WOW, AOC, LOTRO or whatever.
They have spent a huge amount of money on this game and I am not entirely conviced that they will comfortably make the huge profits they think they will. But then again I havent played it so I am just going on my opinion so far.
And come on guys lay of the SWG Pre-CU fans. This is a discussions forum to talk about anything MMORPG. If they want to talk about that, let them talk about it, don't like it, don't post. Simples ;-)
TOR hands down.
They could open up a pre cu server today and would never get over 50-100 k people playing on it.
They may have a huge infulx of players on day one, but by the next day over half of those people would be gone. Most would not even play it unless it had a 7 day free trial.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Has nothing to do with the mechanics of the game rather than the quality of the game.
The game lacks quality. If they fixed all the problems, updated the servers, and improved the graphics , than the game may stand some kind of a chance. People expect quality games now adays, not something that is half assed thrown together.
Besides this, FF14 shares a pretty similiar unique leveling/ranking system... May not be just like swg pre cu, but it is very similiar. Then again they do not have pvp, housing, space, bases, or any of the other things people loved about swg pre cu.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
Agreed
As much as I loved Pre-CU SWG, the gameplay mechanics we're completely crap. It had a STEEP learning curve, which kept most new players away. Plus it was ran by SoE which is the most terrible company out of all MMO companies.
TOR is basically mimicking WoW but with more production put into it. People (somehow) enjoy theme-parks, they like having their entire experience guided, they like being forced to do things because it gives them a path to follow to progress through the game.
If Pre-CU SWG came out now, it would still be a niche game, TOR would garner a much larger audience. In the long run though, I think Pre-CU SWG would hold more subscribers as the game had more content and things to do.
I played SWG pre-cu/nge I remember getting all excited about it and then when I logged in and started playing all I could think is... what the hell did I just spend my money on, there was no game play, it was freaking boring. Now it may have had freedom, but that was all that game had, you were free to be a moisture farmer! Oh yea! Lol. I'm glad there are so many vocal vets that enjoyed the game back then but that game failed and for a reason.
Overall sandbox type games will never have the same appeal as games that have a more linear track. Simply put most people whether they realize it or not like a little direction. Most people don't want second life but set in the star wars universe. They want to be a part of the Star Wars story part of the things that make the universe grand and exciting. They want to be Luke or Han, not Luke's Uncle.
I have played, beta'd, and tried most mmo's that have come out in the last 7 or so years, and very few of them have managed to maintain my attention for more then a month or so, even if they don't I give them time to grow and give them another chance but the same thing still happens. If TOR can keep my attention even if it feels more like a single player game then a mmo I will be happy.
That being said a mmorpg is an rpg game that takes place in an online world that can be played by multiple users at the same time together. TOR is an mmo it is an rpg that is set in an online world designed to be played with other players. So all the people arguing that it isnt an mmo are just being ridiculous, it is one but if you dont want to play it no one says you have to. So instead of complaining, take the time to either try it when it comes out and see if you will enjoy it, or just forget about it and move on, there are many other games out there that might suit your play style.
Not sure where you get that it had more content and things to do. TOR isn't even released yet so we have no idea of the extent of content.
SWG pre cu is like a world you feel like you live in. Not sure if TOR will share that same appeal.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
It's common knowledge man, in Pre-CU SWG you could build a house anywhere, build a city, catnina's actually had a point to them. You could lots more in a sandbox mmo that doesn't require combat.
Ok so I can build a house. I can build a city , I can drop a base? Well is that all there is to the game? You make your own content in SWG is what I mean, and you can still do that to this day.
In TOR the game is run on content that is made by the dev team for you. Not sure if you will be able to make your own content like you could in SWG, but to say that swg had more content because they provided you tools to make your own is just an inaccurate statement, not common knowledge.
I am sure TOR will have alot more dev created content than SWG ever had or even has now.
The game that seems the most like SWG pre cu out now , to me, is FF14.( When it comes to proffession system and grinding) Without all the fun things like player cities, player bases, pvp and so forth.
I would probably play swg pre cu over ff14 if they fixed the bugs and updated their hardware and graphics. Those are 2 games that are kind of comparible. TOR and swg pre cu are not really even in the same category. TOR is a more wow like game play style.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
One game is not even released and the other released 7 years ago and died 5 years ago.
Does the phrase "get over it" mean anything to you.
--John Ruskin
SWG has had a full, lengthy trial for years. If they haven't tried it by now, they'll never try it.
The most subs(the absolute CEILING) pre-NGE classic servers would get is the number they had just before going NGE. Those that left before then, wanted to leave for reasons other than NGE, and there's no reason to think they'll want to come back. And there's no reason to think new players will want to go back to a buggy 7 year old game, with so many newer alternatives out there, now.
Most of my friends who were SW fans weren't MMO fans. When they read about what SWG pre-NGE had to offer, they had no interest in the game.
On the other hand, many of them played KotOR and LOVED it. And they're very interested in seeing what KotR is going to be. If all they did was make KotR with 5 times the content and with other players running around, those people will probably be pretty happy, at least for a while.
If you spent alot of time thinking about this, you really really wasted your time. Classic SWG is NOT gonna happen, at least not by SOE's hands.
How is it not an accurate statement? in a theme park MMO the devs create the content, you run through it however many times, then you wait till more is released. In a sandbox the devs provide you tools to create content, and you keep making content endlessly. To me that sounds like more playability then the theme-park. Maybe I should stop smoking crack?
ToR. No doubt. Bioware>SoE
Yea, I guess , but you can only take it for so long until you get bored. I'm sure people will find themselves bored with TOR after they get to end game ,aswell. It happens with almost every MMO except for wow, but I got bored of wow. Just depends on how much content they release through the years. Expansions and whatever. End game has to be good enough to keep people playing.
I admit, swg was a fun PVP/Crafting game. It was awesome having battles within my own city. When the pvp died, that is when the game died for me. I didn't care so much about the NGE, I still played the game afterwards. I played the game up until the point that my server was dead.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
If so swg would get about 100k subscribers back and Tor about 500k. Both would lose some players early on and in 3 months there´s 20k playing swg and 300k playing tor. Sometimes the past makes things shine alot brighter then it ever was.
All statements I make is from my point of view unless stated otherwise.
This would actually be really funny. On one hand you have a game with a $100 million + budget with an epic storyline made by one of the most celebrated game design studios in the business. The game is made with a cutting-edge reactive combat system and a unique, changeable storyline for each class.
On the other hand, you have a dated game with almost 0 content, extremely sub-par controls and gameplay mechanics, but with some good sandbox elements. Some older players who loved SWG might stick around because of nostalgia alone... but I suspect the majority would suddenly realize how inferior the game really is and would quit right away. The vast majority would play the new game.
That is my opinion at least. I never liked SWG despite attempting to get into it several times. The game had some great elements, but it was horribly executed in my opinion. It was never as good as the SWG vets remember it being.
Look at Pre-Trammel UO, Shadowbane, EVE, Pre-NGE SWG, etc.. those games kept me interested for years on end. I was an alpha/beta tester for EVE and then played it for 5 years after release. If I did not get perma banned for trying to sell a gm corpse on ebay i'd still be playing it, just because the game offered endless content for me. I guess I just enjoy pvp more-so than others.
Let's consider some things about this point, first is this pre cu server actually going to be pay to play or something folks will be able to try for free? I am a pre cu SWG vet and I can quite honestly say simply because as a community we are very vocal doesn't mean our opinions are respected by those who only know about pre cu through us.
In general the commentary by SWG vets is more often than not unreasonable,mean spirited and plain rude while some folks may look at this and think "wow if the game get's them this passionate maybe I should try it" but I don't see that number in any way shape or form ever being able to reach the number of people that an unblemished company like Bioware can.
SWG NEVER cracked the four hundred thousand player mark, and by design it would never appeal to the average WOW or TOR player (just like it didn't appeal to even all the mmo fans out there when it was first released).
I can understand someone not totally enthused about TOR hoping something like this would be possible but I don't see any logic behind this only a point driven by the emotions.
And honestly you see more press for pre CU than for TOR? Are you sure it's not because that is what you are looking for, with the exception of SWG vets no one is asking for pre cu servers this is not to my knowledge even a desire very often expressed on the SWG site now, sure a few bitter vets sub to post the desire for one but it's not the full time player base asking for this.
At the end of the day though I would not even play pre cu SWG because it was simply a flawed game that required far too much work by a company that has shown themselves able to pull the rug from under the players with deceptive practices. Anyone remember the expansion that was wiped out basically a month after it launched? The bugs that remained until the day I quit that game are just not things I would be willing to accept anymore.
Let me make an analogy for those of us who get far too wrapped up in video games, I loved my old 1980 Sunbird (first car I owned) even with the steel for a floor and I had some of the most awesome times in that car but would I trade in the Sebring for it? Not a chance.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Sorry to have to vent on you but will people please stop making this bs statement. " It's called "Freedom" in gameplay.". Oh as we often hear I could be uncle owen, or my personal favorite the creature handler, but could you actually ever be an epic hero in SWG? No because there was nothing to do that was not generic.
What I would like someone to do though is point out to me what you could possibly do in SWG that cannot be done in LOTRO. Crafting, check. Housing, check, develop a character that never engages in battle but is strictly a crafter check. Now whether a person see's these features as in depth as SWG offered is another matter but please let's quit the falsehood that sandboxes offered more freedom then themeparks because they do not in any way shape or form.
The grind involved in SWG was no different than the one you would experience in a LOTRO if you chose to not do quests but just grind mobs for mat's or do bounty/skirmish quests and somehow people keep trying to equate that you have all these extra options as being forced into something or the other.
This point reminds me often of debates I often had with Darkfall players who are quick to sprinkle negativity on anything that they didn't approve, the problem you should have is with how they implement what they implement not the fact that they do it. If more thempark elements existed in sandbox games then themepark players would play these games and would not only give you more sheep to pluck from the darkness but add to the games bottom line and the ability to develop more for you and everyone.
Themeparks have always gone out of there way to include all the classic sandbox features offered by older games, but because sandbox players often show an attitude like this one the sandbox devs get freaking lazy and heap empty worlds upon is with regularity.
I don't know but to me freedom entails options and sandboxes have the least amount of options so I can't see why people keep calling this "freedom".
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
you can't build a city in LOTRO, even as a crafter that never engages in combat you still had to level to get mats of higher levels, so really you still had to engage in combat. What sort of mini-games did LOTRO have? NONE! ooh you could drink beer, that only lasts for so long. The music system in LOTRO is nice though.
Sandbox MMO's offer alot more variety and compelling content in their games then theme-park MMO's do (again my opinion).