Jon isn't the first or last to notice the general lack of caring about understanding what someone has written. It's like talking to a piece of wood.
"I used to think the worst thing in life was to be all alone. It's not. The worst thing in life is to end up with people who make you feel all alone." Robin Williams
And i am really suprised of this mmorpg community , that there are still so many readers around .
I just look at the pretty pictures.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
gotta love an intelligent post, thanks jon wood for this, alot of ppl lately has denied the fact that reading the whole post is neccesary and that you can skimp through lines and get by or that the title says it all, to the degree that in any op I make I actually leave some words from it missing so ppl take the time to read my post to understand what I mean.
I do belive its because everything is streamlined now and "user friendly" as if the user is a 10 yrs old home schooled child that was taught to belive that science is the work of the devil.
good luck trying to teach the people here reading comprehension though.
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
I did not read the entire THREAD, however...I did read the OP loud and clear. I have to add, though, that I have a tendency to read full articles of people that I consider to be good writers, Jon Wood being one. And...I have an equal tendency to "browse" and skim articles written by people that I don't enjoy reading as much.
Having said that, I don't think that's the issue when you're talking about a more broadly applied "comprehension deficiency" on the web. I think Jon hit the proverbial nail on the head when he mentioned Twitter. I might also add instant messaging, that's been going on FAR longer than Twitter, and text messaging via cellphones. There is an entire generation that has grown up communicating with virtual geek-style shorthand. Acronyms are the norm now, to the point that a couple of Christmas holidays back....my partner and I were discussing an MMO we were playing while my 65 year old parents were in the room. I realized they were staring at us like we were from another planet. I think I looked at my mother and said...."What?" To which she replied, "I sounds like you're just saying the alphabet but it's all mixed up."
So...yeah. We've become rushed rushed rushed in our games just like we are in real life. I remember when I played for relaxation and enjoyment and a slow journey. Now we're so compelled to "pwn" that we're all in a mad frenzy. It seems gamers don't have TIME to READ anymore....I mean....we have to get to max level! I try my hardest to NOT play that way, but...it's more common than not, I think.
Wonder how many TL:DR comments you'll get for this article, Jon? LOL
Well, Although I do see Jon Wood's point in this article I have to say that I think the cause of this is the new 'softer learning' approach they are using in public schools these days. When I was a kid we had students that would fall behind, sure but the response from teachers back then was along the lines of, "Do your work or else!". Now adays they seem so wrapped up in phsycoanalyzing everything that they have forgotten that they are there to teach, period. When we refused to do our work or just acted badly we were punished accordingly. Now all they care about is positive reinforcement and how little Billy feels about what he's done. This is the main reason I believe we have more kids graduating highschool now adays with about a 6th or 7th grade education tops... some graduate with a 3rd to 4th grade reading level. This is the root of a lot of the reading comprehesion problems in the world today. It isn't just on the Web either... I see it every day where I work as well. It's a shame really but public schools are failing our children horribly with these new teaching techniques.
Bren
Agreed and /signed.
+1 more for that...
In addition, it's got a lot more to do with the powers that be and the teachers' inability to just teach. Most teachers have to run their school's curriculum and don't get much say in the matter. Add to that the fact that their hands are tied anymore and there's not much they can do. Even back when I was in lower grade school (early 90's), they'd already started permission slips for corporal punishment, meaning that if your parent didn't sign one, you couldn't be paddled. My folks signed mine, and it didn't take but one good time of screwing up, being pulled into the hallway, and taking some paddling to set my tune straight for the rest of that year. The pain and embarrassment were plenty to motivate me from cutting up (or at least getting caught!). Anymore, the threat of lawsuits, child abuse, etc. allows kids to rampantly get away with whatever they will.
Of course, add to that the complete and utter death of grammar as short-hand has become implemented everywhere you look and people don't even know the difference between their, there, and they're (as can be seen quite a few times in the responses here). It's no wonder, Jon Wood, that those lacking basic comprehension skills miscomprehend the incomprehensible. The English language was never simple to begin with and needed more means of clarification, not less, but less is what we move closer to on a daily basis.
With regards to the internet; early on we geeks that populated the place understood each other quite well. Mass miscomprehension has only become commonplace as the internet's popularity has grown. Ironic, really, that the greatest means of finding and exchanging information is becoming the greatest source of misunderstanding, particularly when the means to understand are right there underneath your fingertips.
P.S. It really sucks to be a Grammar Nazi in this day and age.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
[...] Very likely, people are as stupid as they were some hundreds or thousand years ago. It wasn't that obvious 'back then' as you would only talk to some of your neighbors now and then. You wouldn't have the luxury of evaluating the IQ or attention span of several hundred people every day. [...]
I hate to do two replies in a row, but I pretty much agree with this concept. I wouldn't say folks are as dumb as they were a hundred years ago, but people certainly get the opportunity to see hundreds of people's ignorance, stupidity, IQ or attention span every single day. It definitely magnifies the visibility and, to a degree, spreads the effect given that people are influenced by what they read see and do every day.
Edit: Double-bump for Jon Wood.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I decided to hold off on my reply until there were enough others before me to make a point. Reading through those previous posts, a very large piece of the puzzle becomes readily apparent... a large majority of today's internet users are either nearly illiterate or simply don't care. These posts are so full of misspellings, incomplete sentences, missed/skipped punctuation, and the all too prevalent online shorthand that it is no wonder that they cannot comprehend what they read since a large portion of what is out there is incomprehensible due to this rape of the English language. At the same time, that which is written intelligently is so far above their reading skills that they tend to skim for tidbits that are understandable and then proceed to run with their own interpretation of the overall message.
Of course, as I stated above, this is just a piece of the puzzle. Some of the previous posts pointed out the abysmal lack of teaching in our educational systems, the younger crowd who are essentially just children with the obvious child's logic and reasoning, busy schedules, information overload, short, misleading posts in Twitter and Facebook (as well as others), and the fact that this is indicative of the society that we live in - a society of me first, instant gratification, and taking shortcuts to get to our goal as quickly as possible. All of these lead to the same problem which was so beautifully, hilariously, and yet sadly illustrated in the World of Darkness Dev blog and the ensuing uproar.
And again, as pointed out by others, this is not just a problem in MMOs and gaming in general, nor is it a recent development. Just this morning I came across a Tweet about Michael Vick that appeared, from the title, to be a derogatory write-up. Upon following the link and reading the article, it turned out to be a very good history of Vick leading up to this year's surprise move to starting QB for the Eagles and to this week's coming game with the Redskins and McNabb. If I had not read the article, I would have jumped into a heated discussion about the pros and cons of Vick.
As to recent development, almost three years ago, I wrote a rather long and detailed suggestion in the Suggestion Forum of a very popular game (and currently still is) which pertained to housing. I chose to write the article as though it were an actual announcement from the game developer and added a disclaimer at the end in LARGE, BOLD, RED type that it was NOT an official announcement, yet the article spread to fan sites and all over the forum as gospel. When it was pointed-out that the article was in the SUGGESTION FORUM and had the disclaimer at the end (which I then moved to directly under the title and yet it was still missed!!), I was attacked for 'fooling' everyone on purpose. Reading comprehension, as our favorite OP, Jon Wood, has so poignantly stated and illustrated (many apparently skimmed the article and missed the point and/or misspelled his name!), is sadly lacking and getting worse before our very eyes.
[...] Very likely, people are as stupid as they were some hundreds or thousand years ago. It wasn't that obvious 'back then' as you would only talk to some of your neighbors now and then. You wouldn't have the luxury of evaluating the IQ or attention span of several hundred people every day. [...]
I hate to do two replies in a row, but I pretty much agree with this concept. I wouldn't say folks are as dumb as they were a hundred years ago, but people certainly get the opportunity to see hundreds of people's ignorance, stupidity, IQ or attention span every single day. It definitely magnifies the visibility and, to a degree, spreads the effect given that people are influenced by what they read see and do every day.
Edit: Double-bump for Jon Wood.
I would also like to say that I not only agree with this, I would go even further and say reading comprehension is actually better today than it ever has been. I just don't see any connection that isn't based purely on opinion that would indicate some loss in overall reading comprehension. I could also easily argue that because of the internet and the increasing accessibility of personal computers, reading comprehension is likely in a better place then it's been in the history of the universe.
In a way, I view the article that Jon Wood wrote as narrow and shortsighted.
As an English teacher myself, it was nice to read someone beside myself talk about reading comprehension
Thank you, Jon Wood!
I must admit to doing my own skimming; however, when I run across a flaming forum all up in arms over some rampant rumour, I start searching sources. I think people have always gossiped and run amok with faulty and partial information, don't you?
Oh, and Jon--if I were grading your essay, you would have a red pencil round those split infinitives and your penchant for overusing the word "sexy".
[...] Very likely, people are as stupid as they were some hundreds or thousand years ago. It wasn't that obvious 'back then' as you would only talk to some of your neighbors now and then. You wouldn't have the luxury of evaluating the IQ or attention span of several hundred people every day. [...]
I hate to do two replies in a row, but I pretty much agree with this concept. I wouldn't say folks are as dumb as they were a hundred years ago, but people certainly get the opportunity to see hundreds of people's ignorance, stupidity, IQ or attention span every single day. It definitely magnifies the visibility and, to a degree, spreads the effect given that people are influenced by what they read see and do every day.
Edit: Double-bump for Jon Wood.
I would also like to say that I not only agree with this, I would go even further and say reading comprehension is actually better today than it ever has been. I just don't see any connection that isn't based purely on opinion that would indicate some loss in overall reading comprehension. I could also easily argue that because of the internet and the increasing accessibility of personal computers, reading comprehension is likely in a better place then it's been in the history of the universe.
In a way, I view the article that Jon Wood wrote as narrow and shortsighted.
I would have to concur with the statement of the previous poster. It is not a lack of reading comprehension, it is merely a case of too much text being provided. There is a reason Twitter and Powerpoint is popular, it is because they provide condensed information.
I work as an analyst, which essentially means I need to boil down 300 pages of text to something that can fit on one slide. Most people are doing the same, or will be doing the same, in their professional life. That actually requires a higher degree of reading comprehension than just absorbing the information without having to process it to find the important bits.
And before anyone gets on my case about the hidden theme of the thread, it is already included twice.
Very insightful article Jon Wood. I was recently working on a game where the quests involved a lot of text. The amount of times people would skip the text, click accept and then shout or post on the forum asking what to do next thoruoghly amazed me. When asked why they did not read the text the most common answer would be 'Cant be bothered' For me that just about sums it up, I don't believe it is because these peole cannot read or take in information, I think they are just mostly too lazy.
Kids text all the time.. CNN uses bulleted points to give you the Cliff's notes of a news story... TLDR is worn as a button of pride by many... needless to say acronyms, initialisims and ellipsis are rampant in synchronous and asynchronous MMO based CMC. Perhaps those who read every page of Joyce's Ulysses and don’t get kids these days hate it (yeah, yeah, I know overly dramatic, but hey, who even reads posts this far down in flat threaded discussions.. AKA I dont think anyone). I dunno, coming from a descriptive grammar paradigm the register that is MMO language, if not interwebz news may just not be that of pen and paper.
I can certainly admit to having missed the points in some articles at times because I went to the "sexy" bits. This was a good article Jon Wood wrote and I wish everyone who visits this site reads, and comprehend, it.
Kids text all the time.. CNN uses bulleted points to give you the Cliff's notes of a news story... TLDR is worn as a button of pride by many... needless to say acronyms, initialisims and ellipsis are rampant in synchronous and asynchronous MMO based CMC. Perhaps those who read every page of Joyce's Ulysses and don’t get kids these days hate it (yeah, yeah, I know overly dramatic, but hey, who even reads posts this far down in flat threaded discussions.. AKA I dont think anyone). I dunno, coming from a descriptive grammar paradigm the register that is MMO language, if not interwebz news may just not be that of pen and paper.
Actually, if I post in a thread, I have read the whole thread and usually return often to read those who post after me. The few exceptions would be threads with hundreds of posts and even those I will read the majority and skim the rest. That said, I believe you would be correct in saying that the vast majority do not read every post and many don't bother to read more than the first few if any.
One of the things that we might consider, other than Jon Wood's point, is that players (and people in general) see/hear what they want to see/hear.
I've seen that many times on game forums where someone mentions an article and immediately jumps on a bit of info because it precisely supports their interests/agenda.
And since there are quite a few passionate gamers who are looking for their holy grail of games, it stands to reason that they are constantly looking for their "holy grail".
Still, it is a good point. Witth so many people skimming articles and trying to get things in small bites of info, I can easily see people honing in on keywords and then running with it.
Not only that, but many people on forums often make judgements on what is being said based on who says it.
I will use a couple of examples;
from the PotBS Developer forums (FLS) pre release:
There was a "Senior Forum Member" there known as Spinnaker Sam - what he said was often taken as law. It was as if a Dev had said it. Fortunately, Spinnaker Sam was not prone to Bull Crap and was very careful what he said.
But then there was a Moderator there, Danicia, who did sometimes say things that were incorrect. And there were a couple of Fanbois she gave her blessing to - who also started speaking as if they spoke on behalf of the developer - and what they said was usually simply their opinion. In one case - one guy had to have his posts deleted after he started stating 'FLS's policy on Chinese release'!
In one forum I know of there is a trend toward giving posters' their opinion rather than listening to what they actually say. It's interesting, because if you actually read the posts quite often the poster will be saying one thing and the subsequent posters will often 'quote' him / her as saying something different because that poster is 'always whinging', 'trolling again' etc etc.
As for the use of 'cites'. Personally, when quoting, I believe you should make every effort to include a link. In some cases wherethis isn't done I believe it should be grounds for moderative action.
Finally - I wont be mentioning Stradden (Jon Wood) in this post because I didn't read that far... I read further. ;-)
I blame low post-secondary attendance rates in the U.S. for this. Even in first year courses at university students are taught critical thinking skills - how to read, understand, and analyze stuff they read.
Post secondary attendance has fallen by quite a bit in the past 10 years in the U.S. (the U.S. used to be #1 in the world, it is now something like #17.) The vast majority of traffic for the English speaking internet is from the U.S.
That, compounded with the fact that the gaming media has been outright sloppy in their coverage of this. For example, the title of the Massively article is "Permadeath considered for World of Darkness MMO" (http://www.massively.com/2010/09/30/permadeath-considered-for-world-of-darkness-mmo/) while the article makes it clear that it was only a fan suggestion. Yet those who just read the article title are going to think the devs are actively considering permadeath (a far better title for the article would have been "Fan suggests permadeath to World of Darkness MMO devs.")
(And yes, I'm ignoring that put your name in the post thing. Most people spelled it wrong anyway.)
I'm going to reply to this before finishing the rest of the thread, but I believe that it's #37, not #17. I did enjoy Jon Wood's article, though. A friend's little brother has some similar trouble, except he was playing Overlord, where they actually spoke what to do, and he skipped it and then looked at me, 'Where do I go now?' I wouldn't help him in games after that point. I told him, 'I don't know, you skipped the fat guy that was telling you where to go.'
Great article Jon. I work in a school in one of my jobs and the reading comprehension, in general, of teenagers is horrible. Anyone thinking reading comprehension is better today, needs to work in a school for a while. It is much worse than it use to be and statistics bear this out.
It only takes one person to derail a thread because many people don't read the article, they just don't want to take the time to do it. I'll admit, I sometimes skip over the article, but usually only if it does not interest me, I will go back and read it if I decide to respond in the thread.
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
Jon Wood has nailed it on the head here, and its all through our society. At my work I have to communicate via email on a regular basis and the rule of thumb is to put nothing important in anything but the first paragraph, and never ask multiple questions in an email as usually only the first one or two will be answered.
It was entertaining to read the responses and see how many people here proved Jon's point though.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Im 16 years old Jon Wood and MMO players and I need your help desperately. Even as I was reading it I could feel my mind screeming for me to cut the crap skim and seek out the info I needed then go onto another page to harvest anymore I could find. Only through sheer willpower could I keep focus. I didnt relise it has already affected me so much.
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Comments
I'll just add this.
http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/thread/292226/A-place-to-discuss-nonMMORPG-gaming-.html
Jon isn't the first or last to notice the general lack of caring about understanding what someone has written. It's like talking to a piece of wood.
I just look at the pretty pictures.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
gotta love an intelligent post, thanks jon wood for this, alot of ppl lately has denied the fact that reading the whole post is neccesary and that you can skimp through lines and get by or that the title says it all, to the degree that in any op I make I actually leave some words from it missing so ppl take the time to read my post to understand what I mean.
I do belive its because everything is streamlined now and "user friendly" as if the user is a 10 yrs old home schooled child that was taught to belive that science is the work of the devil.
good luck trying to teach the people here reading comprehension though.
They cripple the bird's wing, and then condemn it for not flying as fast as they.Malcolm X
I did not read the entire THREAD, however...I did read the OP loud and clear. I have to add, though, that I have a tendency to read full articles of people that I consider to be good writers, Jon Wood being one. And...I have an equal tendency to "browse" and skim articles written by people that I don't enjoy reading as much.
Having said that, I don't think that's the issue when you're talking about a more broadly applied "comprehension deficiency" on the web. I think Jon hit the proverbial nail on the head when he mentioned Twitter. I might also add instant messaging, that's been going on FAR longer than Twitter, and text messaging via cellphones. There is an entire generation that has grown up communicating with virtual geek-style shorthand. Acronyms are the norm now, to the point that a couple of Christmas holidays back....my partner and I were discussing an MMO we were playing while my 65 year old parents were in the room. I realized they were staring at us like we were from another planet. I think I looked at my mother and said...."What?" To which she replied, "I sounds like you're just saying the alphabet but it's all mixed up."
So...yeah. We've become rushed rushed rushed in our games just like we are in real life. I remember when I played for relaxation and enjoyment and a slow journey. Now we're so compelled to "pwn" that we're all in a mad frenzy. It seems gamers don't have TIME to READ anymore....I mean....we have to get to max level! I try my hardest to NOT play that way, but...it's more common than not, I think.
Wonder how many TL:DR comments you'll get for this article, Jon? LOL
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
+1 more for that...
In addition, it's got a lot more to do with the powers that be and the teachers' inability to just teach. Most teachers have to run their school's curriculum and don't get much say in the matter. Add to that the fact that their hands are tied anymore and there's not much they can do. Even back when I was in lower grade school (early 90's), they'd already started permission slips for corporal punishment, meaning that if your parent didn't sign one, you couldn't be paddled. My folks signed mine, and it didn't take but one good time of screwing up, being pulled into the hallway, and taking some paddling to set my tune straight for the rest of that year. The pain and embarrassment were plenty to motivate me from cutting up (or at least getting caught!). Anymore, the threat of lawsuits, child abuse, etc. allows kids to rampantly get away with whatever they will.
Of course, add to that the complete and utter death of grammar as short-hand has become implemented everywhere you look and people don't even know the difference between their, there, and they're (as can be seen quite a few times in the responses here). It's no wonder, Jon Wood, that those lacking basic comprehension skills miscomprehend the incomprehensible. The English language was never simple to begin with and needed more means of clarification, not less, but less is what we move closer to on a daily basis.
With regards to the internet; early on we geeks that populated the place understood each other quite well. Mass miscomprehension has only become commonplace as the internet's popularity has grown. Ironic, really, that the greatest means of finding and exchanging information is becoming the greatest source of misunderstanding, particularly when the means to understand are right there underneath your fingertips.
P.S. It really sucks to be a Grammar Nazi in this day and age.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I hate to do two replies in a row, but I pretty much agree with this concept. I wouldn't say folks are as dumb as they were a hundred years ago, but people certainly get the opportunity to see hundreds of people's ignorance, stupidity, IQ or attention span every single day. It definitely magnifies the visibility and, to a degree, spreads the effect given that people are influenced by what they read see and do every day.
Edit: Double-bump for Jon Wood.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
I decided to hold off on my reply until there were enough others before me to make a point. Reading through those previous posts, a very large piece of the puzzle becomes readily apparent... a large majority of today's internet users are either nearly illiterate or simply don't care. These posts are so full of misspellings, incomplete sentences, missed/skipped punctuation, and the all too prevalent online shorthand that it is no wonder that they cannot comprehend what they read since a large portion of what is out there is incomprehensible due to this rape of the English language. At the same time, that which is written intelligently is so far above their reading skills that they tend to skim for tidbits that are understandable and then proceed to run with their own interpretation of the overall message.
Of course, as I stated above, this is just a piece of the puzzle. Some of the previous posts pointed out the abysmal lack of teaching in our educational systems, the younger crowd who are essentially just children with the obvious child's logic and reasoning, busy schedules, information overload, short, misleading posts in Twitter and Facebook (as well as others), and the fact that this is indicative of the society that we live in - a society of me first, instant gratification, and taking shortcuts to get to our goal as quickly as possible. All of these lead to the same problem which was so beautifully, hilariously, and yet sadly illustrated in the World of Darkness Dev blog and the ensuing uproar.
And again, as pointed out by others, this is not just a problem in MMOs and gaming in general, nor is it a recent development. Just this morning I came across a Tweet about Michael Vick that appeared, from the title, to be a derogatory write-up. Upon following the link and reading the article, it turned out to be a very good history of Vick leading up to this year's surprise move to starting QB for the Eagles and to this week's coming game with the Redskins and McNabb. If I had not read the article, I would have jumped into a heated discussion about the pros and cons of Vick.
As to recent development, almost three years ago, I wrote a rather long and detailed suggestion in the Suggestion Forum of a very popular game (and currently still is) which pertained to housing. I chose to write the article as though it were an actual announcement from the game developer and added a disclaimer at the end in LARGE, BOLD, RED type that it was NOT an official announcement, yet the article spread to fan sites and all over the forum as gospel. When it was pointed-out that the article was in the SUGGESTION FORUM and had the disclaimer at the end (which I then moved to directly under the title and yet it was still missed!!), I was attacked for 'fooling' everyone on purpose. Reading comprehension, as our favorite OP, Jon Wood, has so poignantly stated and illustrated (many apparently skimmed the article and missed the point and/or misspelled his name!), is sadly lacking and getting worse before our very eyes.
EDIT: typo - typed 'is' instead of 'it'. o.O
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
Oh god, doing a quick ctrl+f search, laughing my ass off at some of the replies. Good job, Jon Wood! That made my day. (And I fully agree with you)
I would also like to say that I not only agree with this, I would go even further and say reading comprehension is actually better today than it ever has been. I just don't see any connection that isn't based purely on opinion that would indicate some loss in overall reading comprehension. I could also easily argue that because of the internet and the increasing accessibility of personal computers, reading comprehension is likely in a better place then it's been in the history of the universe.
In a way, I view the article that Jon Wood wrote as narrow and shortsighted.
I read somewhere Jon Wood cannot comprehend properly. woot! less than 140 characters!
"What we see depends mainly on what we look for." -John Lubbock (1834-1913)
As an English teacher myself, it was nice to read someone beside myself talk about reading comprehension
Thank you, Jon Wood!
I must admit to doing my own skimming; however, when I run across a flaming forum all up in arms over some rampant rumour, I start searching sources. I think people have always gossiped and run amok with faulty and partial information, don't you?
Oh, and Jon--if I were grading your essay, you would have a red pencil round those split infinitives and your penchant for overusing the word "sexy".
HEY OP what did you expect? You talking to the same people that thought Guild Wars was a MMO
Philosophy of MMO Game Design
I would have to concur with the statement of the previous poster. It is not a lack of reading comprehension, it is merely a case of too much text being provided. There is a reason Twitter and Powerpoint is popular, it is because they provide condensed information.
I work as an analyst, which essentially means I need to boil down 300 pages of text to something that can fit on one slide. Most people are doing the same, or will be doing the same, in their professional life. That actually requires a higher degree of reading comprehension than just absorbing the information without having to process it to find the important bits.
And before anyone gets on my case about the hidden theme of the thread, it is already included twice.
Very insightful article Jon Wood. I was recently working on a game where the quests involved a lot of text. The amount of times people would skip the text, click accept and then shout or post on the forum asking what to do next thoruoghly amazed me. When asked why they did not read the text the most common answer would be 'Cant be bothered' For me that just about sums it up, I don't believe it is because these peole cannot read or take in information, I think they are just mostly too lazy.
Kids text all the time.. CNN uses bulleted points to give you the Cliff's notes of a news story... TLDR is worn as a button of pride by many... needless to say acronyms, initialisims and ellipsis are rampant in synchronous and asynchronous MMO based CMC. Perhaps those who read every page of Joyce's Ulysses and don’t get kids these days hate it (yeah, yeah, I know overly dramatic, but hey, who even reads posts this far down in flat threaded discussions.. AKA I dont think anyone). I dunno, coming from a descriptive grammar paradigm the register that is MMO language, if not interwebz news may just not be that of pen and paper.
I can certainly admit to having missed the points in some articles at times because I went to the "sexy" bits. This was a good article Jon Wood wrote and I wish everyone who visits this site reads, and comprehend, it.
Actually, if I post in a thread, I have read the whole thread and usually return often to read those who post after me. The few exceptions would be threads with hundreds of posts and even those I will read the majority and skim the rest. That said, I believe you would be correct in saying that the vast majority do not read every post and many don't bother to read more than the first few if any.
~ Adder ~
Quick, Silent, Deadly
Not only that, but many people on forums often make judgements on what is being said based on who says it.
I will use a couple of examples;
from the PotBS Developer forums (FLS) pre release:
There was a "Senior Forum Member" there known as Spinnaker Sam - what he said was often taken as law. It was as if a Dev had said it. Fortunately, Spinnaker Sam was not prone to Bull Crap and was very careful what he said.
But then there was a Moderator there, Danicia, who did sometimes say things that were incorrect. And there were a couple of Fanbois she gave her blessing to - who also started speaking as if they spoke on behalf of the developer - and what they said was usually simply their opinion. In one case - one guy had to have his posts deleted after he started stating 'FLS's policy on Chinese release'!
In one forum I know of there is a trend toward giving posters' their opinion rather than listening to what they actually say. It's interesting, because if you actually read the posts quite often the poster will be saying one thing and the subsequent posters will often 'quote' him / her as saying something different because that poster is 'always whinging', 'trolling again' etc etc.
As for the use of 'cites'. Personally, when quoting, I believe you should make every effort to include a link. In some cases wherethis isn't done I believe it should be grounds for moderative action.
Finally - I wont be mentioning Stradden (Jon Wood) in this post because I didn't read that far... I read further. ;-)
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
I'm going to reply to this before finishing the rest of the thread, but I believe that it's #37, not #17. I did enjoy Jon Wood's article, though. A friend's little brother has some similar trouble, except he was playing Overlord, where they actually spoke what to do, and he skipped it and then looked at me, 'Where do I go now?' I wouldn't help him in games after that point. I told him, 'I don't know, you skipped the fat guy that was telling you where to go.'
Great article Jon Wood, but I found reading the comments much more entertaining.
Great article Jon. I work in a school in one of my jobs and the reading comprehension, in general, of teenagers is horrible. Anyone thinking reading comprehension is better today, needs to work in a school for a while. It is much worse than it use to be and statistics bear this out.
It only takes one person to derail a thread because many people don't read the article, they just don't want to take the time to do it. I'll admit, I sometimes skip over the article, but usually only if it does not interest me, I will go back and read it if I decide to respond in the thread.
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
Jon Wood has nailed it on the head here, and its all through our society. At my work I have to communicate via email on a regular basis and the rule of thumb is to put nothing important in anything but the first paragraph, and never ask multiple questions in an email as usually only the first one or two will be answered.
It was entertaining to read the responses and see how many people here proved Jon's point though.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Im 16 years old Jon Wood and MMO players and I need your help desperately. Even as I was reading it I could feel my mind screeming for me to cut the crap skim and seek out the info I needed then go onto another page to harvest anymore I could find. Only through sheer willpower could I keep focus. I didnt relise it has already affected me so much.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.