Well its easy to see where things went wrong... and trust me thats not a knock on teachers... im speaking to society and its ever growing LAZINESS.
Heres another intresting pet peeve i acquired yesterday, I walked into the local grocery store and walked thru the isle's collecting my things. I found myself in the vegetable section standing to get some fresh corn out of this huge bin.
The Sign on this bin said " 4 for a Doller <------- WTF OK and to my suprise there was a lady standing there going through the bin looking for the perfect cob. Five minutes must have past while i watched this woman open at least 20 cobs... so at this point i asked the lady " How many cobs of corn are you looking for?" she replied " Ohh just about four " I responded do you realize by stipping the corn back like that... it causes it to dry out faster. Thats the fight started !!!!! , After she said her piece i reached into my pocket selected the first DOLLAR coin i found, flipped it to the lady and said " take a chance.. they are only 25cents each.... that latte your holding cost ya 6 bucks and you blindly bought that before selecting every coffee bean that went into it !! "
Sorry Jon wood my grammer and spelling is not ivy league...BUT AT LEAST I CAN READ
Im 16 years old Jon Wood and MMO players and I need your help desperately. Even as I was reading it I could feel my mind screeming for me to cut the crap skim and seek out the info I needed then go onto another page to harvest anymore I could find. Only through sheer willpower could I keep focus. I didnt relise it has already affected me so much.
You are not alone, and Jon Wood would be sad for you. But there are thousands of people who don't understand why reading comprehension is so important. Worse, because of that, they don't know why proper writing is important. They believe that they can just write tweet-style messages and those are properly constructed full sentences.
We've infected our society with marketing that says 'get to the point, use buzzwords people will react to (OMG, which is horrid grammar in and of itself), and keep it short so they can't change the channel'. Now we're paying for the last part with kids who not only can't change channels, but can't think about something for longer than 30 seconds. The whole 'movies have to be no longer than 90 minutes so they can fit into a 2 hour TV block with commercials to not be edited for time' has angered me to no end. It's like no one is paying attention to the damage that these executive decisions are doing to society.
And it's all part of the same problem. Reading comprehension is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other social issues tied to it, hiding below the waterline. What you're seeing isn't even the majority of the issue. I fear where we're heading. Americans used to have a birthright to quality education, to economic stability, and to being a world power. We're selling all that. We're willingly selling it and our entire future for our 15 seconds of YouTube fame.
The sad part is someone will turn that last sentence into a Tweet.
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Holy freakin irony, Batman. Does this even need explanation??
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Holy freakin irony, Batman. Does this even need explanation??
Those are some amusing pictures, Mr. Wood. As you requested, I put your name in this post to prove that I read the entire blog. I agree, but I also must say that while the vast majority of us may fail at reading comprehension, there will always be some who are eager to point that failure out (like me) and act upon it. I'm guilty of it too, sometimes, in that I don't read something fully rather than I fail to understand what I've read and the actual meaning of the words. This can lead to embarassing situations and even the appearance of a jerk (depending on the nature of your reply without fully understanding what's going on).
Thank you for writing about this topic, and those who disagree are likely those who thought CCP was promising these things to be in-game. On a different note, however, if you think "permadeath" is sexy, you must be a necrophiliac. If you're speaking of it as a game design mechanic, though, I get it.
I would have to concur with the statement of the previous poster. It is not a lack of reading comprehension, it is merely a case of too much text being provided. There is a reason Twitter and Powerpoint is popular, it is because they provide condensed information.
I work as an analyst, which essentially means I need to boil down 300 pages of text to something that can fit on one slide. Most people are doing the same, or will be doing the same, in their professional life. That actually requires a higher degree of reading comprehension than just absorbing the information without having to process it to find the important bits.
And before anyone gets on my case about the hidden theme of the thread, it is already included twice.
That's great if you work as an analyst or you're making a PowerPoint. But what about the other 99% of people who use the Internet? "Too much text"? It's a short blog and a bullet list. The main problem Jon was trying to point out is that people jump to the bullet points because it's condensed information, and ignore the rest of the content, leading to misinformed assumptions and them looking like idiots.
Jon did not attack short n' sweet methods like Twitter or PowerPoint; he said they can be useful. But he's sad that the majority seem to lack any reading comprehension beyond those methods. Perhaps they do have it, but they're just lazy or ill-conditioned to read more than 140 characters (unless there are plenty of pictures and shiny animation effects, like a PowerPoint presentation).
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Some creativity needs to be stiffled... ^^ The idea of perma death is typically a bone thrown to the self described ultra "hard core" players. Such players make up a SMALL percentage of the western player base. If a game is designed from the ground up with that concept in mind, it might work. But again, it would likely appeal to only a SMALL percentage of the western player base. Given that these games typically cost many millions to produce...
Perma death as a design concept is intended to be the ultimate challenge that some claim to seek. But that can be done in other fashions, without using a system that alienates huge numbers of players. I seriously doubt that CCP is going to be using that dynamic. They tend to have a pretty good grasp of whats best for their business model.
Parents and educators alike should both applaud Mr. Jon Wood on bring this subject to light. I for one am growing very weary, no intolerant of the instant gratification ideal todays societies have become accustomed to. By bringing what would seem a minor issue to light may soon be followed by other observations of the columnists of this site to address how the games we so enjoy playing so much may also be conditioning us to be weak minded people who can be easily transfixed and herded to live a certain way that in hte end will not benefit our society as a whole but rather those who have the monetary means to produce the things that we have been "educated" to think we need to survive. In closing I would like to see what percentage of people who post a reply to the post pass or fail.
I'll get right on that, as soon as you read the article on which this thread is based.
P.S. Jon Wood
I read the article Shiymmas, not sure why you have assumed I did not.
"I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article" from my original post if that is what you are getting at.
I literally just put my face... in my palm. I'm starting to think that you legitimately don't know which thread you're in, looking at your post history.
This particular article has practically nothing to do, whatsoever, with any game in particular outside of the one which inspired Jon Wood to write it. Had you actually read the entire article and comprehended it (which is the very subject of the article itself!!!) then you'd realize why I'm responding to you this way.
Again, I suggest you read the entire thing. I honestly believe you saw the first few words, assumed its contents, and ran to the replies to lay down your thoughts (much like the poster you replied to). That, or it's too early and I'm being trolled. I suppose you could literally not understand, but I certainly hope not.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
One comment on perma death for any of you that are so enamored with it. Easy experiment, play the old Diablo II on hardcore. Get a character to 60's or 70's and then watch them die when battlenet does not respond. The point being, you spent all that time getting that character to a certain level only to have nothing and due to something completely out of your control. Everything on that character is now gone. Does that make any sense to you? It makes no sense to me that you can put so much time into a character only to lose it because of some internet glitch. Imagine the customer support queues that would exist when a server has issues. That is exactly why only an idiot of a developer would ever include such a thing in a game.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Some creativity needs to be stiffled... ^^ The idea of perma death is typically a bone thrown to the self described ultra "hard core" players. Such players make up a SMALL percentage of the western player base. If a game is designed from the ground up with that concept in mind, it might work. But again, it would likely appeal to only a SMALL percentage of the western player base. Given that these games typically cost many millions to produce...
Perma death as a design concept is intended to be the ultimate challenge that some claim to seek. But that can be done in other fashions, without using a system that alienates huge numbers of players. I seriously doubt that CCP is going to be using that dynamic. They tend to have a pretty good grasp of whats best for their business model.
And now, I give up. Someone else give this a stab? Maybe Jon Wood?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
I'll get right on that, as soon as you read the article on which this thread is based.
P.S. Jon Wood
I read the article Shiymmas, not sure why you have assumed I did not.
"I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article" from my original post if that is what you are getting at.
I literally just put my face... in my palm. I'm starting to think that you legitimately don't know which thread you're in, looking at your post history.
This particular article has practically nothing to do, whatsoever, with any game in particular outside of the one which inspired Jon Wood to write it. Had you actually read the entire article and comprehended it (which is the very subject of the article itself!!!) then you'd realize why I'm responding to you this way.
Again, I suggest you read the entire thing. I honestly believe you saw the first few words, assumed its contents, and ran to the replies to lay down your thoughts (much like the poster you replied to). That, or it's too early and I'm being trolled. I suppose you could literally not understand, but I certainly hope not.
Shiymmas, I was unaware that I am only allowed to comment on the main article and that I am not allowed to discuss what was written in replies. I am aware this thread is not about any one particular game.
I was replying to Ozmodan's statement about perma-death rather than the main article and mentioned CCP because the game that has brought talk of perma-death mechanics back to the fore is WoD. So perhaps I am a victim of my own assumptions for that reason.
I have to say that I read then ask questions. I have trouble understanding things. I still remember learning how to play D&D after only having the rules to read. I read them and understood it one way but it was not the right way. I did question but I did not make a big issue of it while being happy to learn the right way. I see that happen all the time though where someone reads a little then starts complaining. Makes no sense to me. Here is the working Jon Wood into my post showing I read the article.
And it's all part of the same problem. Reading comprehension is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other social issues tied to it, hiding below the waterline. What you're seeing isn't even the majority of the issue. I fear where we're heading. ...
It's not just a social issue either and it's not just limited to America.
In my business I have to write and edit 'Technical Reports'.
Well, those reports are now far from technical. A part of this problem is that not only have many people lost the ability to take the correct message out of a piece of text... they have forgotten how to put the correct message into that text in the first place!
Anyone here remember something called "Terms of Reference"? For those that don't - you are supposed to have one before you write a report. It basically covers who the report is for (Audience?) and what is the report for? (What infomation does the audience require and why?) It is sometimes called the Scope of the report.
Well the 'technical' reports I am required to write are now so far divorced from any possible Terms of Reference that they are completely useless.
(Yes, I have pointed this out... and I have been met with shoulder shrugs and blank stares.)
They don't even contain any 'technical facts' the majority of the time. The data contained in them is often far more easily obtained through other sources and when that data is organised as information it is more often than not done in the most useless way.
But... "this is the way we have always done it!"
But hey, they are spellchecked (often with the wrong dictionary...) and formatted. And frequently run to 20-30 pages... so they must be good...right?
To elaborate more on reading comprehension, it is not just how we interpret written word, yes words on a page are an integral part but we can read or read into other things as well. We can read into actions, events, spoken work (more listening comprehension, but we also read into tone, infection, distance, and other factors to determine context and emotion), we can even read visual displays such as the interpretation of artwork. To go along with Mr. Wood on this comprehension no matter what it is we are reading or reading into is a highly involved process, that requires the aptitude to read not only the full context but in some cases beyond the obviously discernible context. This is were many find issue, whether it can be ascribed as laziness, a cultural fluctuation toward taking things out of context or minimalization of context, or the inability of the reader to understand the context, is a matter better left to case studies. Typically the problem lies in not reading all the context, which can be skimming trough a document or just looking at the major points but not the arguments for those point or against them. As one user pointed out this is usually the case when the text is long or simply unappealing, a good example of this is the licencing agreement for ITunes which is 55 or more pages depending on if you read the updated versions; not many people can drudge trough 55 pages of legal terms which is either laziness or the fact that the american life due the increasing technology and time needs on the average citizen. One could argue that these are unnesessarily long because companies are pretty sure most people wont read them so they can get them for violating certain terms, but thats neither here nor there. One factor that may cause issues with laziness in reading the full content and context of an article or event is the news. The american news industry especially when it comes to politics has a tendency to take things out of context which is due impart to the news broadcast only being so long and hopes that Americans concerned with issues on a news broadcast will look for further information. Since this is not the case the limited news articles or T.V broadcasts only show a small part of a story where small parts of a large story or event or shown, and only segments of people speaking of the events are heard, which may or may not be chosen intentionally to distort views. The problem with these segments are they are taken out of context, they are only a small portion of a speech or event, or article etc.. that unless the whole content around it is seen, heard, or read the real context cant be seen or understood. The problem with this is that many people base opinions on these small segments while not looking further into it, which puts us back to the point where people don't want to or can't take the time out to look further into such things. How to combat this, well there is no true was to condense content to keep all the context alive, nor is there a way to determine how the content will be read, but content can be reduced in such a way where there is minimal context lost, and hopefully it is done in an unbiased manner, but reducing the content people have to shift though hopefully they will be more inclined to go trough all of it. Then again the only real cure for laziness or time constraints is to not be lazy and find time, even if its five or ten minuets here or there read trough everything and get the whole picture are at least as much as the picture as possible.
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Shiymmas, I was unaware that I am only allowed to comment on the main article and that I am not allowed to discuss what was written in replies. I am aware this thread is not about any one particular game.
I was replying to Ozmodan's statement about perma-death rather than the main article and mentioned CCP because the game that has brought talk of perma-death mechanics back to the fore is WoD. So perhaps I am a victim of my own assumptions for that reason.
Since you seem now to be personally offended, let me clarify. Sorry, also, for taking so long. I needed coffee and to finish laughing this whole thing off.
The entire article, honestly, had nothing to do with gaming. It had everything to do with reading comprehension. Near the end of his article, he requested that those who commented on his article mention Jon Wood in their replies (see there; nailed it!). This covers the first bit of irony as the poster you quoted failed to do so while commending "Jon" (oops, forgot the wood!) on a "great article".
Secondly, I'll start with a quote; "It only takes one person to derail a thread because many people don't read the article, they just don't want to take the time to do it." He follows this comment with a brief mention of the game briefly mentioned as the source of confusion which inspired for the article itself. This was also ironic because with that mention of the game came a reply that not only was completely off-topic, but seemed to include Jon's name by mere coincidence (I'm referring to your first post in this thread). Furthermore, by my responding to point out the irony of it all, I was also continuing to derail the thread myself. The rest that follows should make more sense by now...
In all, I guess it hit me just right. You know how certain things can just make you laugh for some reason? This was one of those things for me. I pretty much figured that more people would be watching the thread, and share the laugh after reading my reply. After it seemed you were dead serious, I thought it was a pretty safe assumption you'd merely scanned the article. By my third reply, I would've sworn you were just flat-out confused. By your last reply above, I think you just don't get it. Understand, I'm no forum "hall monitor", and I'm definitely no stickler for rules, but I thought it was pretty universally understood that your replies in a topic be... on topic. Since that seems less than clear here...
We have not set out to limit people's freedom of speech or discussion. These rules simply strive to keep the boards on topic, productive and inclusive for all members. Accidental violation of minor rules will not result in strict penalties. We want our users to enjoy our boards and feel that these rules will ensure that everyone can equally.
Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Just a minor thing; no big deal for the most part. It's just not very polite, in general. to hop in a thread and start discussing something that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in progress. Honestly, I'm sorry for all the confusion. Hopefully that clears things up. I'd imagine it'll be pretty good for a laugh for anyone else passing through, though.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Shiymmas, I was unaware that I am only allowed to comment on the main article and that I am not allowed to discuss what was written in replies. I am aware this thread is not about any one particular game.
I was replying to Ozmodan's statement about perma-death rather than the main article and mentioned CCP because the game that has brought talk of perma-death mechanics back to the fore is WoD. So perhaps I am a victim of my own assumptions for that reason.
Since you seem now to be personally offended, let me clarify. Sorry, also, for taking so long. I needed coffee and to finish laughing this whole thing off.
The entire article, honestly, had nothing to do with gaming. It had everything to do with reading comprehension. Near the end of his article, he requested that those who commented on his article mention Jon Wood in their replies (see there; nailed it!). This covers the first bit of irony as the poster you quoted failed to do so while commending "Jon" (oops, forgot the wood!) on a "great article".
Secondly, I'll start with a quote; "It only takes one person to derail a thread because many people don't read the article, they just don't want to take the time to do it." He follows this comment with a brief mention of the game briefly mentioned as the source of confusion which inspired for the article itself. This was also ironic because with that mention of the game came a reply that not only was completely off-topic, but seemed to include Jon's name by mere coincidence (I'm referring to your first post in this thread). Furthermore, by my responding to point out the irony of it all, I was also continuing to derail the thread myself. The rest that follows should make more sense by now...
In all, I guess it hit me just right. You know how certain things can just make you laugh for some reason? This was one of those things for me. I pretty much figured that more people would be watching the thread, and share the laugh after reading my reply. After it seemed you were dead serious, I thought it was a pretty safe assumption you'd merely scanned the article. By my third reply, I would've sworn you were just flat-out confused. By your last reply above, I think you just don't get it. Understand, I'm no forum "hall monitor", and I'm definitely no stickler for rules, but I thought it was pretty universally understood that your replies in a topic be... on topic. Since that seems less than clear here...
We have not set out to limit people's freedom of speech or discussion. These rules simply strive to keep the boards on topic, productive and inclusive for all members. Accidental violation of minor rules will not result in strict penalties. We want our users to enjoy our boards and feel that these rules will ensure that everyone can equally.
Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Just a minor thing; no big deal for the most part. It's just not very polite, in general. to hop in a thread and start discussing something that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in progress. Honestly, I'm sorry for all the confusion. Hopefully that clears things up. I'd imagine it'll be pretty good for a laugh for anyone else passing through, though.
As he suggested I subtly 'worked' his name into my post to show I had read the article. Nothing I said showed that I had failed to read or understand the article and my intent was not to derail the thread, I could see why you might think that was ironic, but to help Ozmadan see that the way he was thinking was restrictive.
As to my comments on Permadeath, since it was not obvious to some of you, having permadeath would so overload the support group when service problems occurred, that the only way to implement such would be to eliminate the group. I don't imagine a MMO would be around long if they had no support group, hence why no developer is going to implement such.
As to my comments on Permadeath, since it was not obvious to some of you, having permadeath would so overload the support group when service problems occurred, that the only way to implement such would be to eliminate the group. I don't imagine a MMO would be around long if they had no support group, hence why no developer is going to implement such.
..........huh?
What does that have to do with the OP or reading comprehension? I mean, you know...you could start a new thread about the CCP thing if you want to, but the only reason it was even remotely HINTED at in the OP was to prove a point about reading comprehension, which, by the way....Is what this thread is discussing. If we're going to talk about permadeath and developer usage of such a feature, then there needs to be another thread for that.
Did you read the original post by Jon Wood that started this thread?
Ozmodan, you wrote a very good first paragraph in your first post "it only takes one person to derail a thread." But then you added your second paragraph talking about Permadeath, and people promptly talked about Permadeath.
I guess, this was partially the irony Shiymmas was talkiing about.
I understand what you are saying, Jon Wood, but I think there just piles onto the other problems the MMO industry has, mainly, that even when taken in context, the devs/publishers will lie and hype their game up until release and then pile on the excuses. I think coverage of the gaming industry as a whole could use some work as we've got "articles" that are nothing more the PR stunts and then "coverage" and "interviews" that are nothing more than the same questions with the same general answers. There is not a lot of accountability in the industry right now. Do I think the readers could do more to read the material with more diligence AND try to track down the validity of the source, sure, but that will only get them so far. Those reporting don't even do that as often as they should.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
You can already see who is their favorite son here. The game is far from release and already dispelling rumors asap.
Given that the game is so far from release and next to zip info (from CCP) has been given, isn't dispelling rumours sensible?
Whilst I doubt the intention of the op was to 'favour' the game, it's unsuprising many will pick it as their 'favourite son'. CCP are one of the few true innovators in the maket and their track record with EVE is enough to get anyone who is sick of themepark mmo's a glimmer of hope.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
Comments
Well its easy to see where things went wrong... and trust me thats not a knock on teachers... im speaking to society and its ever growing LAZINESS.
Heres another intresting pet peeve i acquired yesterday, I walked into the local grocery store and walked thru the isle's collecting my things. I found myself in the vegetable section standing to get some fresh corn out of this huge bin.
The Sign on this bin said " 4 for a Doller <------- WTF OK and to my suprise there was a lady standing there going through the bin looking for the perfect cob. Five minutes must have past while i watched this woman open at least 20 cobs... so at this point i asked the lady " How many cobs of corn are you looking for?" she replied " Ohh just about four " I responded do you realize by stipping the corn back like that... it causes it to dry out faster. Thats the fight started !!!!! , After she said her piece i reached into my pocket selected the first DOLLAR coin i found, flipped it to the lady and said " take a chance.. they are only 25cents each.... that latte your holding cost ya 6 bucks and you blindly bought that before selecting every coffee bean that went into it !! "
Sorry Jon wood my grammer and spelling is not ivy league...BUT AT LEAST I CAN READ
UnworthyDuDe/HateMachine
You are not alone, and Jon Wood would be sad for you. But there are thousands of people who don't understand why reading comprehension is so important. Worse, because of that, they don't know why proper writing is important. They believe that they can just write tweet-style messages and those are properly constructed full sentences.
We've infected our society with marketing that says 'get to the point, use buzzwords people will react to (OMG, which is horrid grammar in and of itself), and keep it short so they can't change the channel'. Now we're paying for the last part with kids who not only can't change channels, but can't think about something for longer than 30 seconds. The whole 'movies have to be no longer than 90 minutes so they can fit into a 2 hour TV block with commercials to not be edited for time' has angered me to no end. It's like no one is paying attention to the damage that these executive decisions are doing to society.
And it's all part of the same problem. Reading comprehension is just the tip of the iceberg. There are so many other social issues tied to it, hiding below the waterline. What you're seeing isn't even the majority of the issue. I fear where we're heading. Americans used to have a birthright to quality education, to economic stability, and to being a world power. We're selling all that. We're willingly selling it and our entire future for our 15 seconds of YouTube fame.
The sad part is someone will turn that last sentence into a Tweet.
I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article yet I agree entirely with what you said at the end of your post.
However, I would put it to you that you have made certain assumptions in your post about what a MMORPG is, and what progression must be, that are not necessarily always true.
Should the next character start again at level 1?
Is a level system necessary for a MMORPG?
Can character progression be provided in other ways?
In a game where you progress a character over a level system that can take months of effort then yes, even losing it to a valid game mechanic rather than an internet glitch would be harsh.
However, if we don't identify and question the assumptions we are making when asserting something then our understanding of a subject will not grow and solutions to problems will not present themselves.
I don't really expect CCP to put perma-death into the game either, but to say that any developer who tries is idiotic strikes me as something rather silly and patronising to say that has the effect of stifling creativity.
Holy freakin irony, Batman. Does this even need explanation??"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Please feel free to explain further.
I'll get right on that, as soon as you read the article on which this thread is based.
P.S. Jon Wood
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Those are some amusing pictures, Mr. Wood. As you requested, I put your name in this post to prove that I read the entire blog. I agree, but I also must say that while the vast majority of us may fail at reading comprehension, there will always be some who are eager to point that failure out (like me) and act upon it. I'm guilty of it too, sometimes, in that I don't read something fully rather than I fail to understand what I've read and the actual meaning of the words. This can lead to embarassing situations and even the appearance of a jerk (depending on the nature of your reply without fully understanding what's going on).
Thank you for writing about this topic, and those who disagree are likely those who thought CCP was promising these things to be in-game. On a different note, however, if you think "permadeath" is sexy, you must be a necrophiliac. If you're speaking of it as a game design mechanic, though, I get it.
Jon Wood. Gotcha.
I read the article Shiymmas, not sure why you have assumed I did not.
"I posted a suggestion for a perma-death mechanic in Jon Wood's last article" from my original post if that is what you are getting at.
That's great if you work as an analyst or you're making a PowerPoint. But what about the other 99% of people who use the Internet? "Too much text"? It's a short blog and a bullet list. The main problem Jon was trying to point out is that people jump to the bullet points because it's condensed information, and ignore the rest of the content, leading to misinformed assumptions and them looking like idiots.
Jon did not attack short n' sweet methods like Twitter or PowerPoint; he said they can be useful. But he's sad that the majority seem to lack any reading comprehension beyond those methods. Perhaps they do have it, but they're just lazy or ill-conditioned to read more than 140 characters (unless there are plenty of pictures and shiny animation effects, like a PowerPoint presentation).
Some creativity needs to be stiffled... ^^ The idea of perma death is typically a bone thrown to the self described ultra "hard core" players. Such players make up a SMALL percentage of the western player base. If a game is designed from the ground up with that concept in mind, it might work. But again, it would likely appeal to only a SMALL percentage of the western player base. Given that these games typically cost many millions to produce...
Perma death as a design concept is intended to be the ultimate challenge that some claim to seek. But that can be done in other fashions, without using a system that alienates huge numbers of players. I seriously doubt that CCP is going to be using that dynamic. They tend to have a pretty good grasp of whats best for their business model.
Parents and educators alike should both applaud Mr. Jon Wood on bring this subject to light. I for one am growing very weary, no intolerant of the instant gratification ideal todays societies have become accustomed to. By bringing what would seem a minor issue to light may soon be followed by other observations of the columnists of this site to address how the games we so enjoy playing so much may also be conditioning us to be weak minded people who can be easily transfixed and herded to live a certain way that in hte end will not benefit our society as a whole but rather those who have the monetary means to produce the things that we have been "educated" to think we need to survive. In closing I would like to see what percentage of people who post a reply to the post pass or fail.
I literally just put my face... in my palm. I'm starting to think that you legitimately don't know which thread you're in, looking at your post history.
This particular article has practically nothing to do, whatsoever, with any game in particular outside of the one which inspired Jon Wood to write it. Had you actually read the entire article and comprehended it (which is the very subject of the article itself!!!) then you'd realize why I'm responding to you this way.
Again, I suggest you read the entire thing. I honestly believe you saw the first few words, assumed its contents, and ran to the replies to lay down your thoughts (much like the poster you replied to). That, or it's too early and I'm being trolled. I suppose you could literally not understand, but I certainly hope not.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
And now, I give up. Someone else give this a stab? Maybe Jon Wood?
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Shiymmas, I was unaware that I am only allowed to comment on the main article and that I am not allowed to discuss what was written in replies. I am aware this thread is not about any one particular game.
I was replying to Ozmodan's statement about perma-death rather than the main article and mentioned CCP because the game that has brought talk of perma-death mechanics back to the fore is WoD. So perhaps I am a victim of my own assumptions for that reason.
I have to say that I read then ask questions. I have trouble understanding things. I still remember learning how to play D&D after only having the rules to read. I read them and understood it one way but it was not the right way. I did question but I did not make a big issue of it while being happy to learn the right way. I see that happen all the time though where someone reads a little then starts complaining. Makes no sense to me. Here is the working Jon Wood into my post showing I read the article.
It's not just a social issue either and it's not just limited to America.
In my business I have to write and edit 'Technical Reports'.
Well, those reports are now far from technical. A part of this problem is that not only have many people lost the ability to take the correct message out of a piece of text... they have forgotten how to put the correct message into that text in the first place!
Anyone here remember something called "Terms of Reference"? For those that don't - you are supposed to have one before you write a report. It basically covers who the report is for (Audience?) and what is the report for? (What infomation does the audience require and why?) It is sometimes called the Scope of the report.
Well the 'technical' reports I am required to write are now so far divorced from any possible Terms of Reference that they are completely useless.
(Yes, I have pointed this out... and I have been met with shoulder shrugs and blank stares.)
They don't even contain any 'technical facts' the majority of the time. The data contained in them is often far more easily obtained through other sources and when that data is organised as information it is more often than not done in the most useless way.
But... "this is the way we have always done it!"
But hey, they are spellchecked (often with the wrong dictionary...) and formatted. And frequently run to 20-30 pages... so they must be good...right?
Nothing says irony like spelling ideot wrong.
To elaborate more on reading comprehension, it is not just how we interpret written word, yes words on a page are an integral part but we can read or read into other things as well. We can read into actions, events, spoken work (more listening comprehension, but we also read into tone, infection, distance, and other factors to determine context and emotion), we can even read visual displays such as the interpretation of artwork. To go along with Mr. Wood on this comprehension no matter what it is we are reading or reading into is a highly involved process, that requires the aptitude to read not only the full context but in some cases beyond the obviously discernible context. This is were many find issue, whether it can be ascribed as laziness, a cultural fluctuation toward taking things out of context or minimalization of context, or the inability of the reader to understand the context, is a matter better left to case studies. Typically the problem lies in not reading all the context, which can be skimming trough a document or just looking at the major points but not the arguments for those point or against them. As one user pointed out this is usually the case when the text is long or simply unappealing, a good example of this is the licencing agreement for ITunes which is 55 or more pages depending on if you read the updated versions; not many people can drudge trough 55 pages of legal terms which is either laziness or the fact that the american life due the increasing technology and time needs on the average citizen. One could argue that these are unnesessarily long because companies are pretty sure most people wont read them so they can get them for violating certain terms, but thats neither here nor there. One factor that may cause issues with laziness in reading the full content and context of an article or event is the news. The american news industry especially when it comes to politics has a tendency to take things out of context which is due impart to the news broadcast only being so long and hopes that Americans concerned with issues on a news broadcast will look for further information. Since this is not the case the limited news articles or T.V broadcasts only show a small part of a story where small parts of a large story or event or shown, and only segments of people speaking of the events are heard, which may or may not be chosen intentionally to distort views. The problem with these segments are they are taken out of context, they are only a small portion of a speech or event, or article etc.. that unless the whole content around it is seen, heard, or read the real context cant be seen or understood. The problem with this is that many people base opinions on these small segments while not looking further into it, which puts us back to the point where people don't want to or can't take the time out to look further into such things. How to combat this, well there is no true was to condense content to keep all the context alive, nor is there a way to determine how the content will be read, but content can be reduced in such a way where there is minimal context lost, and hopefully it is done in an unbiased manner, but reducing the content people have to shift though hopefully they will be more inclined to go trough all of it. Then again the only real cure for laziness or time constraints is to not be lazy and find time, even if its five or ten minuets here or there read trough everything and get the whole picture are at least as much as the picture as possible.
We go trough life with many yet there is a time we must walk our path alone.
Since you seem now to be personally offended, let me clarify. Sorry, also, for taking so long. I needed coffee and to finish laughing this whole thing off.
The entire article, honestly, had nothing to do with gaming. It had everything to do with reading comprehension. Near the end of his article, he requested that those who commented on his article mention Jon Wood in their replies (see there; nailed it!). This covers the first bit of irony as the poster you quoted failed to do so while commending "Jon" (oops, forgot the wood!) on a "great article".
Secondly, I'll start with a quote; "It only takes one person to derail a thread because many people don't read the article, they just don't want to take the time to do it." He follows this comment with a brief mention of the game briefly mentioned as the source of confusion which inspired for the article itself. This was also ironic because with that mention of the game came a reply that not only was completely off-topic, but seemed to include Jon's name by mere coincidence (I'm referring to your first post in this thread). Furthermore, by my responding to point out the irony of it all, I was also continuing to derail the thread myself. The rest that follows should make more sense by now...
In all, I guess it hit me just right. You know how certain things can just make you laugh for some reason? This was one of those things for me. I pretty much figured that more people would be watching the thread, and share the laugh after reading my reply. After it seemed you were dead serious, I thought it was a pretty safe assumption you'd merely scanned the article. By my third reply, I would've sworn you were just flat-out confused. By your last reply above, I think you just don't get it. Understand, I'm no forum "hall monitor", and I'm definitely no stickler for rules, but I thought it was pretty universally understood that your replies in a topic be... on topic. Since that seems less than clear here...
Forums / Chat / Messaging Rules
Our Goal
We have not set out to limit people's freedom of speech or discussion. These rules simply strive to keep the boards on topic, productive and inclusive for all members. Accidental violation of minor rules will not result in strict penalties. We want our users to enjoy our boards and feel that these rules will ensure that everyone can equally.
Topic Hijacking
Posting comments within a thread which severely disrupts the original conversation is prohibited at MMORPG.com.
Example: Asking whether a game has PvP in a thread about crafting materials found in a new expansion is Topic Hijacking.
Just a minor thing; no big deal for the most part. It's just not very polite, in general. to hop in a thread and start discussing something that has absolutely nothing to do with the discussion in progress. Honestly, I'm sorry for all the confusion. Hopefully that clears things up. I'd imagine it'll be pretty good for a laugh for anyone else passing through, though.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
As he suggested I subtly 'worked' his name into my post to show I had read the article. Nothing I said showed that I had failed to read or understand the article and my intent was not to derail the thread, I could see why you might think that was ironic, but to help Ozmadan see that the way he was thinking was restrictive.
As to my comments on Permadeath, since it was not obvious to some of you, having permadeath would so overload the support group when service problems occurred, that the only way to implement such would be to eliminate the group. I don't imagine a MMO would be around long if they had no support group, hence why no developer is going to implement such.
..........huh?
What does that have to do with the OP or reading comprehension? I mean, you know...you could start a new thread about the CCP thing if you want to, but the only reason it was even remotely HINTED at in the OP was to prove a point about reading comprehension, which, by the way....Is what this thread is discussing. If we're going to talk about permadeath and developer usage of such a feature, then there needs to be another thread for that.
Did you read the original post by Jon Wood that started this thread?
President of The Marvelously Meowhead Fan Club
I have to laugh, too, sorry.
Ozmodan, you wrote a very good first paragraph in your first post "it only takes one person to derail a thread." But then you added your second paragraph talking about Permadeath, and people promptly talked about Permadeath.
I guess, this was partially the irony Shiymmas was talkiing about.
I understand what you are saying, Jon Wood, but I think there just piles onto the other problems the MMO industry has, mainly, that even when taken in context, the devs/publishers will lie and hype their game up until release and then pile on the excuses. I think coverage of the gaming industry as a whole could use some work as we've got "articles" that are nothing more the PR stunts and then "coverage" and "interviews" that are nothing more than the same questions with the same general answers. There is not a lot of accountability in the industry right now. Do I think the readers could do more to read the material with more diligence AND try to track down the validity of the source, sure, but that will only get them so far. Those reporting don't even do that as often as they should.
parrotpholk-Because we all know the miracle patch fairy shows up the night before release and sprinkles magic dust on the server to make it allllll better.
ITT - People who don't use paragraphs correctly comment on reading comprehension.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."
You can already see who is their favorite son here. The game is far from release and already dispelling rumors asap.
Given that the game is so far from release and next to zip info (from CCP) has been given, isn't dispelling rumours sensible?
Whilst I doubt the intention of the op was to 'favour' the game, it's unsuprising many will pick it as their 'favourite son'. CCP are one of the few true innovators in the maket and their track record with EVE is enough to get anyone who is sick of themepark mmo's a glimmer of hope.
"Come and have a look at what you could have won."