As far as I can tell from reading both sides, he read you like a book.
Care to elaborate?
There's really nothing more I can add that Mike didn't already say. If you're not able to understand what I'm referring to in his post, then explaining it myself won't change anything.
To be honest, I just wanted some proof you actually read it and weren't just chiming in to support him because you simply didn't like my tone.
Considering that I've had disagreements with Mike myself in the past (as you can see in my post history), you can rest assured that's not the case.
"It's not too often I see somebody write on a forum, "I read both sides and he read you like a book" and actually did it. It suggests some rather remarkable powers for somebody who merely read a few paragraphs."
Well then, I'll be more specific - he read you like a book in the context of what you were both discussing in this particular thread.
-Edited for your edit-
Ugh, this is beginning to read like another thing I shouldn't get involved in.
"He read you like a book."
"Care to elaborate?"
"That thing he said was right."
"Just give me some proof you actually read it. Just seems a little remarkable, this claim you're making."
"No, trust me, I hate that guy, that means I read him. My claim is not remarkable because he read you like a book in that message I promise I read."
"I'm brimming with confidence, somehow."
Ok fine, if it's truly so important to you that I elaborate on the points from Mike that I was referring to, then I will.
First, you stated that if someone you didn't know came up to you and said hi, you'd give them the cold shoulder with some self-serving, elitist attitude, which seems totally counterproductive to an online community, in my eyes. Hence why I was agreeing with Mikes statements about your apparent "defense for the sake of defending, grasping at straws" retort.
Then Mike's statement, "Seriously, Geld... Is there *anything* to do with XIV someone could criticize that you won't find some way to spin or dismiss in your tireless defense of it? Anything at all?" led me to wonder the same thing (as I've read many of your posts on this forum), since it appears that no matter the criticism, you find some way spin the argument into some far-fetched defense that sometimes even pivots on the point of irrelevance entirely.
Then there's the assertion you made about a person asking a question in /shout as being the equivalent of "relying upon others to get you through" with is a laughable notion at best. If something is so complex that it would be too much of a hassle to explain it yourself, then simply point them in the right direction instead of just ignoring them outright. This is an online role playing game. It's implied to most that play these games that they might occasionally interact with another person in some form or another - that includes having a question answered from time to time. For someone who's new to this genre, it's even MORE expected. To try and defend and even condone an ati-social "you're not worth my time" attitude is senseless and even detrimental to the image of the community.
This right here, "And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here." implies that you believe it's normal and "working as intended" for a community to shun players who are simply trying to interact because it would somehow impede upon your precious gaming time. Give me a break, really. If you can't take the time to throw a response to a confused player, or go as far as to contribute even arbitrarily to a conversation on occasion, then I'm baffled as to why you even play online games in the first place. Of course, in all fairness, it's entirely your decision to the play the game in that manner, but to defend that sort of behavior in the confines of an mmo is just plain silly. An online community needs communication to thrive, it's as simple as that.
I also have to agree with this, "The fact that you have to take the example to the most extreme - someone "relying on others for everything" - in order to make your point, only makes it that much weaker. I don't think we're talking about "someone asking for help with everything". We're talking about someone asking a question here and there."
So there you have it. I read both sides, and it's clear to me that you are merely defending for the sake of defending at this point. There are many legitimate concerns with this game, as well as legitimate strong points, but to try and argue, even indirectly, that a player is out-of-bounds for asking a simple question in /shout or by hoping to occasionally converse with other players in the confines of an ONLINE world is both a weak argument, and a very, very sad statement if it's sincerely based in truth. A strong community is a staple for many of the most stable online games that have existed and that continue to exist, and if an mmo doesn't foster that kind of environment, but instead encourages an "every man for himself, asking questions will get you shot" atmosphere, I'd say it's a pretty big detriment to it's future.
Ok fine, if it's truly so important to you that I elaborate on the points from Mike that I was referring to, then I will.
First, you stated that if someone you didn't know came up to you and said hi, you'd give them the cold shoulder with some self-serving, elitist attitude, which seems totally counterproductive to an online community, in my eyes. Hence why I was agreeing with Mikes statements about your apparent "defense for the sake of defending, grasping at straws" retort.
Then Mike's statement, "Seriously, Geld... Is there *anything* to do with XIV someone could criticize that you won't find some way to spin or dismiss in your tireless defense of it? Anything at all?" led me to wonder the same thing (as I've read many of your posts on this forum), since it appears that no matter the criticism, you find some way spin the argument into some far-fetched defense that sometimes even pivots on the point of irrelevance entirely.
Then there's the assertion you made about a person asking a question in /shout as being the equivalent of "relying upon others to get you through" with is a laughable notion at best. If something is so complex that it would be too much of a hassle to explain it yourself, then simply point them in the right direction instead of just ignoring them outright. This is an online role playing game. It's implied to most that play these games that they might occasionally interact with another person in some form or another - that includes having a question answered from time to time. For someone who's new to this genre, it's even MORE expected. To try and defend and even condone an ati-social "you're not worth my time" attitude is senseless and even detrimental to the image of the community.
This right here, "And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here." implies that you believe it's normal and "working as intended" for a community to shun players who are simply trying to interact because it would somehow impede upon your precious gaming time. Give me a break, really. If you can't take the time to throw a response to a confused player, or go as far as to contribute even arbitrarily to a conversation on occasion, then I'm baffled as to why you even play online games in the first place. Of course, in all fairness, it's entirely your decision to the play the game in that manner, but to defend that sort of behavior in the confines of an mmo is just plain silly. An online community needs communication to thrive, it's as simple as that.
I also have to agree with this, "The fact that you have to take the example to the most extreme - someone "relying on others for everything" - in order to make your point, only makes it that much weaker. I don't think we're talking about "someone asking for help with everything". We're talking about someone asking a question here and there."
So there you have it. I read both sides, and it's clear to me that you are merely defending for the sake of defending at this point. There are many legitimate concerns with this game, as well as legitimate strong points, but to try and argue, even indirectly, that a player is out-of-bounds for asking a simple question in /shout or by hoping to occasionally converse with other players in the confines of an ONLINE world is both a weak argument, and a very, very sad statement if it's sincerely based in truth. A strong community is a staple for many of the most stable online games that have existed and that continue to exist, and if an mmo doesn't foster that kind of environment, but instead encourages an "every man for himself, asking questions will get you shot" atmosphere, I'd say it's a pretty big detriment to it's future.
Just my 2 cents.
I was hoping for elaboration, I got a book report. Well, I do appreciate your efforts, so lets read and summarize the paragraphs of what you wrote here...
Paragraph one: Because I expressed hesitation in getting dragged into idle conversations with strangers while I'm playing a game, I'm a self-serving, elitist jerk who is out to sabotage a community with his ignorance.
Paragraph two: Because I like the game and often say good things about it, I'm a lying spinmaster who will do anything in his power to make Final Fantasy XIV look good.
Paragraph three: In expressing I would hesistate to assist aperson who exerts no effort, you know I ignore all people who /shout for help without so much as pointing them in the right direciton.
Paragraph four: My theorycrafting of a possible reason why the poster encountered a, "yeah I understand you" situation establishes clearly I'm an insensitive jerk.
Paragraph five: Because I have forgot to mention of a user who has done their research in my example of a user who has not done their research, I have mentioned the most extreme negative scenario, and therefore am once again a lying spinmaster.
Paragraph six: You can tell that I am a troll because I have attempted to defend a point persistently, and Final Fantasy XIV's community sucks because I'm a part of it.
You know, I'm not really liking your interpretation of how I was "read like a book." I may have streamlined it a bit much, but that's pretty much the meat of it.
I don't think I need to address any of these "points," because the radical nature of your reply is such that the points are invalidated. In these words, no longer am I a thinking, rational being who only does what he thinks is right as we all do, but the devil himself. This doesn't surprise me, truth be told, as the person who you had said "read me by the book" did the same thing. This is why I decided not to reply to him, because the radical nature of his statements indicated to me that his convictions were such that anything I said would be but dust in the wind.
I had hoped that by saying I was read like a book, you had detected something I did not, as this is what I should expect from a third party. I was willing to hear out the points if you could have disseminated them for me. However, even in this recapitulation you have provided, this simply does not seem to be the case. I still can see nothing more than a grand kneejerking at a wrongful interpretation of what I wrote. Cathartic, at best, but not really something a person can rationally address.
It's not that many people are introverted or misanthropic, but you're in a huge pot of different cultures and languages, 3 times our 10 you're talking to someone who doesn't speak your language, and 5 times out of ten you're talking to someone who can't speak your language very well (this varies from server to server). For the other 5 people most of the time they are caught up in a conversation involving something pertaining to crafting or grouping is how it seems to go. People are just really busy is all. You need to find yourself a good LS, look around on the guild forums on this website, might do you some good.
It's not that many people are introverted or misanthropic, but you're in a huge pot of different cultures and languages, 3 times our 10 you're talking to someone who doesn't speak your language, and 5 times out of ten you're talking to someone who can't speak your language very well (this varies from server to server). For the other 5 people most of the time they are caught up in a conversation involving something pertaining to crafting or grouping is how it seems to go. People are just really busy is all. You need to find yourself a good LS, look around on the guild forums on this website, might do you some good.
See, now this post makes sense without coming off as making the community sound like a group of antisocial elitists.
With a multiple nationalities playing the same servers (English, French, German, Japanese to name a few) and not all of them speaking the same language (or being able to speak it well enough) it makes it a bit harder for the community to interact at a more than basic social level.
Sure there is an ingame translator, but things do get lost in translation and translators won't always account for slang terms (lets face it, as an American I know very well that we are guilty of bastardizing the English language..) making it harder for communication to happen.
So basically its a multitude of reasons and not just the community being anti-social dinks.
Thank you MisterSr for this clarification
There are 3 types of people in the world. 1.) Those who make things happen 2.) Those who watch things happen 3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Ok I should have probalby elaborated more on what i ment by "introverts" in this game. I have no idea how long any of you have played MMO's. My first MMO experinece was EQ. Dont know if y'all remember EQ but there was never a quite moment in that game. DING!!!! TRAIN!!!! WOOOT!!!! yes these are all one words but what i am getting at is that there really was never a dull moment. And when ever anyone asked a question. How do you use the lifts in the wood elf tree city. Anyone have something to sell? Looking for a group. People always would be happy to respond. Going through my MMO experince EQ2, FF XI, AOC, BoC, WoW SWG ( befor the revamp), STO. ALL of those games there was always some conversation going on. It is what has turned me on to MMO's in the first place. I got to meet new people who enjoyed what i do. Go out and explore and find new and interesting things and people to meet and have an adventure. TO ALL THESE PEOPLE and you know who you are. Stop being stuck up. ITs a game. it is an MMO. the point is to meet new people. ALL the FFXIV people i have seen are in clusters of just making stuff and i am vary sorry that Asking a Simple yes or no question of Can Carpenters make bows is just too much for you to handle. geldonyetich dude really?
I get that making stuff in this game truly is the only way to get money and other stuff but that is not ALL this game is about. its about the adventure, the exploration, and meeting people that you thought that you would never meet. I think i can safely say that is why most of us play mmo's and FFXIV community should be open to people saying hi and whats up because everyother game community i have ever been in has always said hello back.
Ok I should have probalby elaborated more on what i ment by "introverts" in this game. I have no idea how long any of you have played MMO's. My first MMO experinece was EQ. Dont know if y'all remember EQ but there was never a quite moment in that game. DING!!!! TRAIN!!!! WOOOT!!!! yes these are all one words but what i am getting at is that there really was never a dull moment. And when ever anyone asked a question. How do you use the lifts in the wood elf tree city. Anyone have something to sell? Looking for a group. People always would be happy to respond. Going through my MMO experince EQ2, FF XI, AOC, BoC, WoW SWG ( befor the revamp), STO. ALL of those games there was always some conversation going on. It is what has turned me on to MMO's in the first place. I got to meet new people who enjoyed what i do. Go out and explore and find new and interesting things and people to meet and have an adventure. TO ALL THESE PEOPLE and you know who you are. Stop being stuck up. ITs a game. it is an MMO. the point is to meet new people. ALL the FFXIV people i have seen are in clusters of just making stuff and i am vary sorry that Asking a Simple yes or no question of Can Carpenters make bows is just too much for you to handle. geldonyetich dude really?
I get that making stuff in this game truly is the only way to get money and other stuff but that is not ALL this game is about. its about the adventure, the exploration, and meeting people that you thought that you would never meet. I think i can safely say that is why most of us play mmo's and FFXIV community should be open to people saying hi and whats up because everyother game community i have ever been in has always said hello back.
You can still meet people, but none the less people are busy generally, and you're not just going to run up to someone and ask them to help you randomly in public. The same rules apply here more than any MMO I've seen. Especially when people ask for me to give them stuff I had to make (I.E. Dyes, clothes, weapons, ect.) That took me about 2 hours to gather mats for and 25 minutes to make, I'm not looking to give handouts(keep in mind with those mats I was able to make about 4 of the exact same item). So in that case I just chose to ignore the individual who asked that instead of confronting them, it felt nicer that way. This game is more about LS community, find yourself a good LS, mine is awesome and I never feel like I have no one to talk to. My LS and I are very close, every member knows each others and we are an LS of over 100, our applications are closed right now so I couldn't recommend people apply.
ALL the FFXIV people i have seen are in clusters of just making stuff and i am vary sorry that Asking a Simple yes or no question of Can Carpenters make bows is just too much for you to handle. geldonyetich dude really?
Well, this explains a few things.
If you're trying to talk to clusters of crafters, you're talking to the wrong people. What happens is while you're crafting in FFXIV is your line of text is reset before and after every crafting command you enter, and there's a timer that forces you enter another crafting command promptly. (Not to mention you're getting spammed with crafting text from yourself and other crafters.) Maybe if they're as fast of a typist as me and happen to notice what you're writing through all that, they can quickly slam out a yes or no answer, but it will prove too difficult for a lot of people. (Particularly if they're on a gamepad.)
"Can Carpenters make bows" is a question with neither a yes or no answer. Yes, Carpenters can create bows... however, it requires the intervention of much more than carpenters to make bows. You actually will require parts from a number of other craftsman that, without, the bow simply cannot be made. In a way, while the Carpenter is the final part of the bow, they are the least part of it, the actual assembly of the bow is going to be easier than the assembly of some of the materials that went into it. Furthermore, not al bows are actually finished by Carpenters, some bows are made by Leatherworkers and Goldsmiths, for example. Consequently, this simple question puts a FFXIV player in an awkward position of having quite a mouthful to inform you. This is why they would probably prefer you do a little research.
Ok fine, if it's truly so important to you that I elaborate on the points from Mike that I was referring to, then I will.
First, you stated that if someone you didn't know came up to you and said hi, you'd give them the cold shoulder with some self-serving, elitist attitude, which seems totally counterproductive to an online community, in my eyes. Hence why I was agreeing with Mikes statements about your apparent "defense for the sake of defending, grasping at straws" retort.
Then Mike's statement, "Seriously, Geld... Is there *anything* to do with XIV someone could criticize that you won't find some way to spin or dismiss in your tireless defense of it? Anything at all?" led me to wonder the same thing (as I've read many of your posts on this forum), since it appears that no matter the criticism, you find some way spin the argument into some far-fetched defense that sometimes even pivots on the point of irrelevance entirely.
Then there's the assertion you made about a person asking a question in /shout as being the equivalent of "relying upon others to get you through" with is a laughable notion at best. If something is so complex that it would be too much of a hassle to explain it yourself, then simply point them in the right direction instead of just ignoring them outright. This is an online role playing game. It's implied to most that play these games that they might occasionally interact with another person in some form or another - that includes having a question answered from time to time. For someone who's new to this genre, it's even MORE expected. To try and defend and even condone an ati-social "you're not worth my time" attitude is senseless and even detrimental to the image of the community.
This right here, "And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here." implies that you believe it's normal and "working as intended" for a community to shun players who are simply trying to interact because it would somehow impede upon your precious gaming time. Give me a break, really. If you can't take the time to throw a response to a confused player, or go as far as to contribute even arbitrarily to a conversation on occasion, then I'm baffled as to why you even play online games in the first place. Of course, in all fairness, it's entirely your decision to the play the game in that manner, but to defend that sort of behavior in the confines of an mmo is just plain silly. An online community needs communication to thrive, it's as simple as that.
I also have to agree with this, "The fact that you have to take the example to the most extreme - someone "relying on others for everything" - in order to make your point, only makes it that much weaker. I don't think we're talking about "someone asking for help with everything". We're talking about someone asking a question here and there."
So there you have it. I read both sides, and it's clear to me that you are merely defending for the sake of defending at this point. There are many legitimate concerns with this game, as well as legitimate strong points, but to try and argue, even indirectly, that a player is out-of-bounds for asking a simple question in /shout or by hoping to occasionally converse with other players in the confines of an ONLINE world is both a weak argument, and a very, very sad statement if it's sincerely based in truth. A strong community is a staple for many of the most stable online games that have existed and that continue to exist, and if an mmo doesn't foster that kind of environment, but instead encourages an "every man for himself, asking questions will get you shot" atmosphere, I'd say it's a pretty big detriment to it's future.
Just my 2 cents.
I was hoping for elaboration, I got a book report. Well, I do appreciate your efforts, so lets read and summarize the paragraphs of what you wrote here...
Paragraph one: I'm a self-serving, elitist jerk who is out to sabotage a community with his ignorance.
Paragraph two: I'm a lying spinmaster who will do anything in his power to make Final Fantasy XIV look good.
Paragraph three: I ignore all people who /shout for help without so much as pointing them in the right direciton.
Paragraph four: My theorycrafting of a possible reason why the poster encountered a, "yeah I understand you" situation establishes clearly I'm an insensitive jerk.
Paragraph five: Because I have forgot to mention of a user who has done their research in my example of a user who has not done their research, I have mentioned the most extreme negative scenario, and therefore am once again a lying spinmaster.
Paragraph six: You can tell that I am a troll because I have attempted to defend a point persistently.
You know, I'm not really liking your interpretation of how I was "read like a book."
I don't think I need to address any of these "points," because the radical nature of your reply does so for me. In your haste to establish how wrong I was, you apparently have completely disavowed the idea that I'm a rational individual who does what they believe is right. I don't think this person you've outline exists anywhere outside of an individual imagination deeply engaged in demonizing an individual. Ergo, these conclusions you have drawn are so far removed from reality I can't take you that seriously.
I'm sorry, but did you write anything at all in this thread that would have me believe otherwise? I just work with what you give me. Also, the fact that you took what I wrote entirely as an attack at yourself specifically says pretty much all I needed to know, and also ensures me that trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion with you is impossible since it will most likely always concede to you feeling personally offended if your exact views aren't agreed with entirely.
My main point was that it seems ridiculous to try and defend anti-social behavior within the community of an mmo, which I only elaborated on because you specifically asked for it. Mike said it all, and I said it again.
I'd agree that my conclusions are hasty if not for the fact that I've read many of your posts on this forum and I've seen where most of them eventually wind up. But sure, I'll admit that I might be totally wrong and you're really the most rational, altruistic person on the planet, so as long as the people who associate with you are within the boundaries of what you consider to be an acceptable threshold of intelligence. See, I met you in the middle .
I'm sorry, but did you write anything at all in this thread that would have me believe otherwise? I just work with what you give me. Also, the fact that you took what I wrote entirely as an attack at yourself specifically says pretty much all I needed to know, and also ensures me that trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion with you is impossible since it will most likely always concede to you feeling personally offended if your exact views aren't agreed with entirely.
My main point was that it seems ridiculous to try and defend anti-social behavior within the community of an mmo, which I only elaborated on because you specifically asked for it. Mike said it all, and I said it again.
I'd agree that my conclusions are hasty if not for the fact that I've read many of your posts on this forum and I've seen where most of them eventually wind up. But sure, I'll admit that I might be totally wrong and you're really the most rational, altruistic person on the planet, so as long as the people who associate with you are within the boundaries of what you consider to be an acceptable threshold of intelligence. See, I met you in the middle .
You see, all I ask is I'm offered the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that poster you agreed with did that. You'd be surprised how easy it is to choose to misinterpret someone in the worst possible way. They may believe you've done everything in your power to represent yourself well, but come off as a terrible person, even if the greater body of this happened to be a consequence of the reader's own chosen interpretation.
ok dude read what i said above it was a yes or no question fo "CAN CARPENTERS MAKE BOWS" sorry for the caps but READ IT. i am not asking for hand outs im not asking anyone to teach me what to do. I am asking what profetion makes bows. as for the LS community sure i will give it a shot but good lord. OH &@&;% a stupid fricken newb asked a question. OHH F*#($% he is trying to be social. well F(#* that (#$% he might ask me to do a favor for him... HMMMMMMMM is it maybe he is trying to just meet the locals. maybe trying to get to know the people around him probably. See whats going on? I AM SORRY if i would have known that trying to be social was such a taboo in this game then i really would not have gotten it in the first place.
Here is a qestion for you all that dont want to be bothered by a silly little old newb like me. How is it that you go out and meet people in RL? You say Hello. My name is ________ how are you. Did i miss something in the past decade? hell i know that the world is a really crappy place atm and people dont want to give anything away but. How else are you going to meet some one?
ok dude read what i said above it was a yes or no question fo "CAN CARPENTERS MAKE BOWS" sorry for the caps but READ IT.
Okay, I just answered you back here. Extensively. And this is your reply.
This is kinda what I'm talking about when I said I'd hesistate to answer that question if I saw it in-game. You really do need to exert more effort to have a ghost of a chance of playing Final Fantasy XIV at all.
I'm sorry, but did you write anything at all in this thread that would have me believe otherwise? I just work with what you give me. Also, the fact that you took what I wrote entirely as an attack at yourself specifically says pretty much all I needed to know, and also ensures me that trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion with you is impossible since it will most likely always concede to you feeling personally offended if your exact views aren't agreed with entirely.
My main point was that it seems ridiculous to try and defend anti-social behavior within the community of an mmo, which I only elaborated on because you specifically asked for it. Mike said it all, and I said it again.
I'd agree that my conclusions are hasty if not for the fact that I've read many of your posts on this forum and I've seen where most of them eventually wind up. But sure, I'll admit that I might be totally wrong and you're really the most rational, altruistic person on the planet, so as long as the people who associate with you are within the boundaries of what you consider to be an acceptable threshold of intelligence. See, I met you in the middle .
You see, all I ask is I'm offered the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that poster you agreed with did that. You'd be surprised how easy it is to choose to misinterpret someone in the worst possible way. They may believe you've done everything in your power to represent yourself well, but come off as a terrible person, even if the greater body of this happened to be a consequence of the reader's own chosen interpretation.
Well, I can agree with that and I'll admit that I don't know enough to make a fair assessment of you. So I'll just say that I'm sorry for being too hasty and more harsh than I should have been in my posts. Semantical misunderstanding can sometimes play a key role in these misinterpretations, and I think that might be the case here.
ok but can you guys see what the problem is here? You automaticaly assumed something without even trying to figure out what i ment to say. Yes i could have been more elaborate i will admit that. I should have explained more. But, to me its soulds like you guys see what i wrote and made the notion that i am some creepy weirdo saying "hi" and what makes what. then i have people some of you guys saying that if i dont know it already i should not be playing. FUN is what a game is. I should not have to do hours of research before hand just so that i can have some fun and meet new people. People should be willing to just talk. It is not like there is any commitment in these games to become freinds with the person. Now about people crafting in the camps Not everyone is crafting there are tons of people walking in and out. That could have just said its more complex then simple carpentry that you will need diferent items that are made by diferent crafts. But nowadays its dont help the newb because he will ask me for money or armor or weapons. I guess what i am getting at is maybe you should try to see if there is something else going on. Maybe you will make a cool friend in the process. It not like you have anything real to lose.
ok but can you guys see what the problem is here? You automaticaly assumed something without even trying to figure out what i ment to say. Yes i could have been more elaborate i will admit that. I should have explained more. But, to me its soulds like you guys see what i wrote and made the notion that i am some creepy weirdo saying "hi" and what makes what. then i have people some of you guys saying that if i dont know it already i should not be playing. FUN is what a game is. I should not have to do hours of research before hand just so that i can have some fun and meet new people. People should be willing to just talk. It is not like there is any commitment in these games to become freinds with the person. Now about people crafting in the camps Not everyone is crafting there are tons of people walking in and out. That could have just said its more complex then simple carpentry that you will need diferent items that are made by diferent crafts. But nowadays its dont help the newb because he will ask me for money or armor or weapons. I guess what i am getting at is maybe you should try to see if there is something else going on. Maybe you will make a cool friend in the process. It not like you have anything real to lose.
But meseche! Those 10 seconds are so precious! To stop and treat you like a human being would be a ginormous waste of time since I could be using that time to knock off 1% of my run time to the next objective! WTF are you thinking? You expect a moment of my time???!!1
Facetiousness aside, for a game that's supposed to be about the journey and a beautiful immersive world, people sure as hell are in a hurry if they ignore every last person who speaks in /say or /shout, and they obviously aren't immersed for long if every little while they have to either crash the game to check for info or just run in windowed mode w/borders so they can check up their favorite website for info (that or check their special little notepad). The perpetual hypocrisy of this game's players and defenders never ceases to amaze me, particularly in a thread like this where you have multiple people attempting to rationalize such behavior. Worse still is when part of their argument is based on linkshells of which obviously a person asking for help in /say or /shout isn't. The worst part though? Saying said linkshells are, in fact, not cliques at all, yet refusing to extend their hand to ask a random stranger to join, all under the assumption that that person is beneath them due to not knowing the answer or having looked for it themselves after asking a simple question in the only chat channels available to them at that point.
Barrens looks better by the post. At least Chuck Norris wouldn't put up with that kind of shit...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it." George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing. Oscar Wilde
Geldon, you're a very scary person at times and I'm sorry to say that your posts do more damage then good to the overall feeling I'm ( we're) getting of the FF community.
I do hope you're not exemplary for this community, but Kaocan supporting you makes it difficult to think differently.
I am NOT talking about the fact that you like the game, I respect that ... I'm talking about how you go about it.
I'm sorry, but did you write anything at all in this thread that would have me believe otherwise? I just work with what you give me. Also, the fact that you took what I wrote entirely as an attack at yourself specifically says pretty much all I needed to know, and also ensures me that trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion with you is impossible since it will most likely always concede to you feeling personally offended if your exact views aren't agreed with entirely.
My main point was that it seems ridiculous to try and defend anti-social behavior within the community of an mmo, which I only elaborated on because you specifically asked for it. Mike said it all, and I said it again.
I'd agree that my conclusions are hasty if not for the fact that I've read many of your posts on this forum and I've seen where most of them eventually wind up. But sure, I'll admit that I might be totally wrong and you're really the most rational, altruistic person on the planet, so as long as the people who associate with you are within the boundaries of what you consider to be an acceptable threshold of intelligence. See, I met you in the middle .
You see, all I ask is I'm offered the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that poster you agreed with did that. You'd be surprised how easy it is to choose to misinterpret someone in the worst possible way. They may believe you've done everything in your power to represent yourself well, but come off as a terrible person, even if the greater body of this happened to be a consequence of the reader's own chosen interpretation.
I'd just like to say, I see where you're coming from with your initial post and don't wish to get into it as others have. However, I also got the impression WSIMike did, and God knows we don't see eye to eye on certain things him and I.
Although I don't agree with his attitude towards your post, I do agree the ppl in the game are more silent and 'introverted' than older games where we used to chatted more.
The genre HAS changed, and unfortunately those of us that like to be more social and friendly find this new 'attitude' lacking in our enjoyment of new MMOs.
Are there reasonable justifications for such behavior? Maybe. Saying that nothing can be done however is being defeatist and unwilling to push for change. Things CAN be done. We just need to think of the whole community and not only our own existence in the game.
I, for one, do my best to help others if i can and only hope others will do the same. Otherwise, this will have detrimental effects for the future of the community.
Ok i may be the onlyone feeling this but i have played the game for about a day now and it is imposible for me to talk to anyone. Good lord i say hi whats up and no one ever responds. I ask a question about crafting and carpentry and if they can make bows... no one responds untill i ask if anyone can even understand me... and then oh look some one finaly replies yea i can understand you...
Maybe the original poster is on to something.
if some random stranger ran up to me in the game and said, "hi, what's up" I'd be hesistant to reply, thinking, "yeah, whatever kid, I'm trying to play the game, go bug somebody else if you're looking for idle conversation."
If some random stranger starts shouting they want to know something about crafting and carpentry and if they can make bows, I'm going to be hesistant to reply, thinking, "Jebus kid, do you have any idea of the enormity of what you're saying? Crafting a bow is pretty serious business. Maybey ou should reference crafting website and get an idea. We're trying to play the game here."
And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here.
So I guess that makes me an introvert. It's not that I wouldn't lend a helping hand, but I sure want to see some evidence the person I'm talking to know what they're talking about. If everybody else playing the game feels the same way, I guess I'm among like company.
This "leave me alone until I am ready to grace you with my presence" attitude really kinda takes the second M out of MMO. Somehow over the years MMOs have become just large online single player games and I don't understand why. I personally play to socialize and group up with other people. Sure I do things on my own, but when someone asks a question, I usually try to answer if I can, whether I am busy or not.
I think telling someone to go to a website when they ask a question is complete BS. It frustrates me when I get that response to my questions. As a side note, it frustrates me when I am doing quests with a group and everyone goes to a website for complete walkthrough of the quest. You see, I prefer to play these games within the mechanics they were designed. And chatting and helping other people are part of the mechanics of these games. Logging out or alt-tabbing to visit a 3rd party website is not. Now I am not going to lie and say I have never visited websites, but it is after I have exhausted all my patience at trying to figure stuff out in-game.
So far I am loving FFXIV, but it needs a serious shot of community personality. No one talks, and that is just sad in an MMO. Now don't get me wrong. I don't want childish banter spewing out everywhere, but for the meer fact there are a couple thousand people not saying a damn thing or even wanting to talk has me a bit saddened.
Me and another person I have met in game have been doing a lot of leves together. We always shout out to try and find more people to group with, and usually only get 1, maybe 2 people to join us. That is not good when you can see 50 people standing around an aetheryte crystal, the guild leve sign flashing left and right, and no one wants to do anything together.
Have you perhaps seen the character limit in chat, together with the size of the actual chatbox? If someone wanted to try to explain crafting ( or ANYTHING else, really ), they'd have to sit there creating a wall of text one snippet at a time. That's why I haven't really been talking in game, the chat system is just too much of a pain to type out anything other than "Yes" or "No".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Ok i may be the onlyone feeling this but i have played the game for about a day now and it is imposible for me to talk to anyone. Good lord i say hi whats up and no one ever responds. I ask a question about crafting and carpentry and if they can make bows... no one responds untill i ask if anyone can even understand me... and then oh look some one finaly replies yea i can understand you...
Maybe the original poster is on to something.
if some random stranger ran up to me in the game and said, "hi, what's up" I'd be hesistant to reply, thinking, "yeah, whatever kid, I'm trying to play the game, go bug somebody else if you're looking for idle conversation."
If some random stranger starts shouting they want to know something about crafting and carpentry and if they can make bows, I'm going to be hesistant to reply, thinking, "Jebus kid, do you have any idea of the enormity of what you're saying? Crafting a bow is pretty serious business. Maybey ou should reference crafting website and get an idea. We're trying to play the game here."
And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here.
So I guess that makes me an introvert. It's not that I wouldn't lend a helping hand, but I sure want to see some evidence the person I'm talking to isn't just out to waste my time. If everybody else playing the game feels the same way, I guess I'm among like company.
Talking with your fellow players and answering appropriate questions is part of playing the game, it's called building community. That's part of why players can even meta-game. Without players asking questions and having those questions answered you and other people sharing this incredibly selfish mindset aren't going to benefit from the experience of others in a MMORPG. The OP wasn't asking for a handout, they were asking a legitimate question and hearing their voice echo says something about the mindset of the present community. That's not cool, it's simply not cool.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
ok dude read what i said above it was a yes or no question fo "CAN CARPENTERS MAKE BOWS" sorry for the caps but READ IT. i am not asking for hand outs im not asking anyone to teach me what to do. I am asking what profetion makes bows. as for the LS community sure i will give it a shot but good lord. OH &@&;% a stupid fricken newb asked a question. OHH F*#($% he is trying to be social. well F(#* that (#$% he might ask me to do a favor for him... HMMMMMMMM is it maybe he is trying to just meet the locals. maybe trying to get to know the people around him probably. See whats going on? I AM SORRY if i would have known that trying to be social was such a taboo in this game then i really would not have gotten it in the first place.
Here is a qestion for you all that dont want to be bothered by a silly little old newb like me. How is it that you go out and meet people in RL? You say Hello. My name is ________ how are you. Did i miss something in the past decade? hell i know that the world is a really crappy place atm and people dont want to give anything away but. How else are you going to meet some one?
Ok you lost me here, are you exaggerating here on the forums to make a fictional point or have you actually encountered this in FFXIV? Because I have yet to see anythign like this in game yet. I've run into some seriously wierd people too, and nobody has ever treated them like this.
This game has been nothing but friendly and social for me, on 3 different servers now. The one I'm on now is mostly French people, and even they are friendly.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
ok dude read what i said above it was a yes or no question fo "CAN CARPENTERS MAKE BOWS" sorry for the caps but READ IT. i am not asking for hand outs im not asking anyone to teach me what to do. I am asking what profetion makes bows. as for the LS community sure i will give it a shot but good lord. OH &@&;% a stupid fricken newb asked a question. OHH F*#($% he is trying to be social. well F(#* that (#$% he might ask me to do a favor for him... HMMMMMMMM is it maybe he is trying to just meet the locals. maybe trying to get to know the people around him probably. See whats going on? I AM SORRY if i would have known that trying to be social was such a taboo in this game then i really would not have gotten it in the first place.
Here is a qestion for you all that dont want to be bothered by a silly little old newb like me. How is it that you go out and meet people in RL? You say Hello. My name is ________ how are you. Did i miss something in the past decade? hell i know that the world is a really crappy place atm and people dont want to give anything away but. How else are you going to meet some one?
Ok you lost me here, are you exaggerating here on the forums to make a fictional point or have you actually encountered this in FFXIV? Because I have yet to see anythign like this in game yet. I've run into some seriously wierd people too, and nobody has ever treated them like this.
This game has been nothing but friendly and social for me, on 3 different servers now. The one I'm on now is mostly French people, and even they are friendly.
Kaocan Maybe you have been the lucky one. But no what i have been saying Has been happening to me ingame. And it keeps on happening. Like i asked a question of what kind of monsters drop wind crystals and shards? you know what answer i got back. Some guy telling me to head north and sit by a rock and just wait. That eventualy they (the shards) would just show up. thats all i got from them. Now hey i get that it was a joke where we all can get a good /laugh at. Especialy if i would have been that gullible. But, thats all i got. no help from a bunch of people making stuff using the wind crystals and selling them. So someone knew where to get them but no i just get a smart remark. Hey its a joke right fun for the person making it but i ask you all. Where is the fun for the person wanted to do/make something?
Join a linkshell get to know a group of people instead of just some guy trying to probably do something. And, for anything related to something you need for like crafting you can't go wrong with having steam running so you can just check a database while still in game. You can what drops what shards and what you need to make whatever you need with little effort.
Geldon, you're a very scary person at times and I'm sorry to say that your posts do more damage then good to the overall feeling I'm ( we're) getting of the FF community.
I do hope you're not exemplary for this community, but Kaocan supporting you makes it difficult to think differently.
I am NOT talking about the fact that you like the game, I respect that ... I'm talking about how you go about it.
What scares me is, if you look at the posts from the original poster and several of his follow up, it seems to me like this is precisely the kind of guy you'd be justified to suggest he apply himself a bit more. Not to be a snob, but for his own good if he is to have any chance of enjoying the game. "Teach a man to fish," and all that. However, a significant number of people have interpretted my saying so with phoney-balony kneejerking that I'm the bad guy to say so.
That's not true mortality, it's a poor substitute at best, and deeply counterproductive to making the world a better place. It's like the people in my sociology class that, upon seeing the results of an extensive study that attributes some traits which can be seen as negative as being common in a specific society, they exclaim, "that's racism!" No, it's not racism, it's the results of a scientific study.
If one is resolved to shout down anyone looking to solve a social problem just so the affected individuals can feel better about something even they themselves know is wrong, then one is being an impediment to the good of mankind. One might end up more popular if they feign being a crusader of the people at every opportunity, being praised by like-minded individuals is likely where they picked up the habit, but considering they're just doing more harm than good, they damn well wouldn't deserve such a title.
And that's waaay more thought going into the matter than anyone was expecting, so it's best if I stop here.
This reminds me of some joke article I read for WoW, where asking a legitimate question would just get you ignored or trolled. The article "taught" that to get the answers you wanted, you needed to have a friend pretend to actually answer but give the wrong information, so then all those that ignored you are quick to laugh at and correct them (usually in some condescending way).
I must admit, I don't know how it feels as I've yet to ask a question, but I do try to answer questions I know the answer to if I'm not currently busy. To think that giving the cold shoulder to someone needing help is the "proper" way to build a community is just silly. In fact, there are numerous examples of the community even in beta going out to help complete strangers, one being the recipes for crafting (notice I'm talking pre lodestone). Would have been extremely easy to just say "Bah! Let them figure it out for themselves!" and kept the recipes for their own use, but that wouldn't have been very productive to forming a community, would it? Or even some of the posters here in the crafting thread before release, and so forth.
The only issue I ever see is when the asker gets unbelievably attached and then comes the rain of questions every minute and at every log on. At that point, I just quietly try to separate myself, but that's a more uncommon scenario.
Finally, I must admit to agreeing to other posters here who have shown a dislike to the "you must join a guild/clan/LS" mentality. This is nothing unique to FF14, but in general. I really like to play MMOs to interact and meet with new people as I play the game, as it tends to always be a different experience even if it's just in the topic for the chatter. Sticking to just cliques or a preset group of people to interact with... well, I'd prefer to go load up Borderlands or play any team based FPS game (ah, the memories from BF2...) in that case. I understand their purpose for late game stuff, such as the instances or raids, but being a requirement for just the general game? That just seems really off to me.
Though, to play a bit of devil's advocate, as I said I can't connect to the feeling very much since I've had a decent amount of luck getting strangers to respond and group up, especially at certain grinding spots. And as an RPer, random RP hasn't been that hard to find either (even though most of the people I meet are not RPers).
Ok i may be the onlyone feeling this but i have played the game for about a day now and it is imposible for me to talk to anyone. Good lord i say hi whats up and no one ever responds. I ask a question about crafting and carpentry and if they can make bows... no one responds untill i ask if anyone can even understand me... and then oh look some one finaly replies yea i can understand you... and thats it... maybe there is a diferent chat channel or something that i am not aware of but i have never played a game befor where the chat window was like a ghost town.
Today I wanted to quit to go to bed, and I did a /doze with my character.
A other character responded and woke me up.
So I walked to him and said.
"Did you wake me up?"
And actually we started to RP in /say, whcih was fun, other people joined in, but I had trouble to follow the chat because of all sync messages (I need to filter my chat )
Anyway People talk, but it all depends on what you say.
If I hear someone random say: Hi?
Then I don't know if that someone is talking to me or someone else, when I am bored I probably say Hi back, but when I am on a quest, or in a group, then I will ignore it.
Best is to target someone and say Hello <t> Can I ask you a question? In my expierence people just think someone else will tell in /tell. So if you ask it to a name you have a good change to get a reply. (If they aren't AFK)
Be aware, a crafter who is busy can't type, the risk of fail is high.
Also a lot of people go afk for a little while (eat, phone, looking at website, whatever)
Or just chatting in LS or tell.
The fun thing was me and the other role player were joking about all people looked like statues or zombies, so many people and so quiet. So when I read your topic I /chuckle a little.
Comments
Ok fine, if it's truly so important to you that I elaborate on the points from Mike that I was referring to, then I will.
First, you stated that if someone you didn't know came up to you and said hi, you'd give them the cold shoulder with some self-serving, elitist attitude, which seems totally counterproductive to an online community, in my eyes. Hence why I was agreeing with Mikes statements about your apparent "defense for the sake of defending, grasping at straws" retort.
Then Mike's statement, "Seriously, Geld... Is there *anything* to do with XIV someone could criticize that you won't find some way to spin or dismiss in your tireless defense of it? Anything at all?" led me to wonder the same thing (as I've read many of your posts on this forum), since it appears that no matter the criticism, you find some way spin the argument into some far-fetched defense that sometimes even pivots on the point of irrelevance entirely.
Then there's the assertion you made about a person asking a question in /shout as being the equivalent of "relying upon others to get you through" with is a laughable notion at best. If something is so complex that it would be too much of a hassle to explain it yourself, then simply point them in the right direction instead of just ignoring them outright. This is an online role playing game. It's implied to most that play these games that they might occasionally interact with another person in some form or another - that includes having a question answered from time to time. For someone who's new to this genre, it's even MORE expected. To try and defend and even condone an ati-social "you're not worth my time" attitude is senseless and even detrimental to the image of the community.
This right here, "And then they're like, "can anyone even understand me" and I'm like, "yeah, I can understand you..." hoping they'd take the hint that we're trying to play teh game here." implies that you believe it's normal and "working as intended" for a community to shun players who are simply trying to interact because it would somehow impede upon your precious gaming time. Give me a break, really. If you can't take the time to throw a response to a confused player, or go as far as to contribute even arbitrarily to a conversation on occasion, then I'm baffled as to why you even play online games in the first place. Of course, in all fairness, it's entirely your decision to the play the game in that manner, but to defend that sort of behavior in the confines of an mmo is just plain silly. An online community needs communication to thrive, it's as simple as that.
I also have to agree with this, "The fact that you have to take the example to the most extreme - someone "relying on others for everything" - in order to make your point, only makes it that much weaker. I don't think we're talking about "someone asking for help with everything". We're talking about someone asking a question here and there."
So there you have it. I read both sides, and it's clear to me that you are merely defending for the sake of defending at this point. There are many legitimate concerns with this game, as well as legitimate strong points, but to try and argue, even indirectly, that a player is out-of-bounds for asking a simple question in /shout or by hoping to occasionally converse with other players in the confines of an ONLINE world is both a weak argument, and a very, very sad statement if it's sincerely based in truth. A strong community is a staple for many of the most stable online games that have existed and that continue to exist, and if an mmo doesn't foster that kind of environment, but instead encourages an "every man for himself, asking questions will get you shot" atmosphere, I'd say it's a pretty big detriment to it's future.
Just my 2 cents.
I was hoping for elaboration, I got a book report. Well, I do appreciate your efforts, so lets read and summarize the paragraphs of what you wrote here...
Paragraph one: Because I expressed hesitation in getting dragged into idle conversations with strangers while I'm playing a game, I'm a self-serving, elitist jerk who is out to sabotage a community with his ignorance.
Paragraph two: Because I like the game and often say good things about it, I'm a lying spinmaster who will do anything in his power to make Final Fantasy XIV look good.
Paragraph three: In expressing I would hesistate to assist aperson who exerts no effort, you know I ignore all people who /shout for help without so much as pointing them in the right direciton.
Paragraph four: My theorycrafting of a possible reason why the poster encountered a, "yeah I understand you" situation establishes clearly I'm an insensitive jerk.
Paragraph five: Because I have forgot to mention of a user who has done their research in my example of a user who has not done their research, I have mentioned the most extreme negative scenario, and therefore am once again a lying spinmaster.
Paragraph six: You can tell that I am a troll because I have attempted to defend a point persistently, and Final Fantasy XIV's community sucks because I'm a part of it.
You know, I'm not really liking your interpretation of how I was "read like a book." I may have streamlined it a bit much, but that's pretty much the meat of it.
I don't think I need to address any of these "points," because the radical nature of your reply is such that the points are invalidated. In these words, no longer am I a thinking, rational being who only does what he thinks is right as we all do, but the devil himself. This doesn't surprise me, truth be told, as the person who you had said "read me by the book" did the same thing. This is why I decided not to reply to him, because the radical nature of his statements indicated to me that his convictions were such that anything I said would be but dust in the wind.
I had hoped that by saying I was read like a book, you had detected something I did not, as this is what I should expect from a third party. I was willing to hear out the points if you could have disseminated them for me. However, even in this recapitulation you have provided, this simply does not seem to be the case. I still can see nothing more than a grand kneejerking at a wrongful interpretation of what I wrote. Cathartic, at best, but not really something a person can rationally address.
It's not that many people are introverted or misanthropic, but you're in a huge pot of different cultures and languages, 3 times our 10 you're talking to someone who doesn't speak your language, and 5 times out of ten you're talking to someone who can't speak your language very well (this varies from server to server). For the other 5 people most of the time they are caught up in a conversation involving something pertaining to crafting or grouping is how it seems to go. People are just really busy is all. You need to find yourself a good LS, look around on the guild forums on this website, might do you some good.
See, now this post makes sense without coming off as making the community sound like a group of antisocial elitists.
With a multiple nationalities playing the same servers (English, French, German, Japanese to name a few) and not all of them speaking the same language (or being able to speak it well enough) it makes it a bit harder for the community to interact at a more than basic social level.
Sure there is an ingame translator, but things do get lost in translation and translators won't always account for slang terms (lets face it, as an American I know very well that we are guilty of bastardizing the English language..) making it harder for communication to happen.
So basically its a multitude of reasons and not just the community being anti-social dinks.
Thank you MisterSr for this clarification
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
2.) Those who watch things happen
3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
Ok I should have probalby elaborated more on what i ment by "introverts" in this game. I have no idea how long any of you have played MMO's. My first MMO experinece was EQ. Dont know if y'all remember EQ but there was never a quite moment in that game. DING!!!! TRAIN!!!! WOOOT!!!! yes these are all one words but what i am getting at is that there really was never a dull moment. And when ever anyone asked a question. How do you use the lifts in the wood elf tree city. Anyone have something to sell? Looking for a group. People always would be happy to respond. Going through my MMO experince EQ2, FF XI, AOC, BoC, WoW SWG ( befor the revamp), STO. ALL of those games there was always some conversation going on. It is what has turned me on to MMO's in the first place. I got to meet new people who enjoyed what i do. Go out and explore and find new and interesting things and people to meet and have an adventure. TO ALL THESE PEOPLE and you know who you are. Stop being stuck up. ITs a game. it is an MMO. the point is to meet new people. ALL the FFXIV people i have seen are in clusters of just making stuff and i am vary sorry that Asking a Simple yes or no question of Can Carpenters make bows is just too much for you to handle. geldonyetich dude really?
I get that making stuff in this game truly is the only way to get money and other stuff but that is not ALL this game is about. its about the adventure, the exploration, and meeting people that you thought that you would never meet. I think i can safely say that is why most of us play mmo's and FFXIV community should be open to people saying hi and whats up because everyother game community i have ever been in has always said hello back.
You can still meet people, but none the less people are busy generally, and you're not just going to run up to someone and ask them to help you randomly in public. The same rules apply here more than any MMO I've seen. Especially when people ask for me to give them stuff I had to make (I.E. Dyes, clothes, weapons, ect.) That took me about 2 hours to gather mats for and 25 minutes to make, I'm not looking to give handouts(keep in mind with those mats I was able to make about 4 of the exact same item). So in that case I just chose to ignore the individual who asked that instead of confronting them, it felt nicer that way. This game is more about LS community, find yourself a good LS, mine is awesome and I never feel like I have no one to talk to. My LS and I are very close, every member knows each others and we are an LS of over 100, our applications are closed right now so I couldn't recommend people apply.
Well, this explains a few things.
If you're trying to talk to clusters of crafters, you're talking to the wrong people. What happens is while you're crafting in FFXIV is your line of text is reset before and after every crafting command you enter, and there's a timer that forces you enter another crafting command promptly. (Not to mention you're getting spammed with crafting text from yourself and other crafters.) Maybe if they're as fast of a typist as me and happen to notice what you're writing through all that, they can quickly slam out a yes or no answer, but it will prove too difficult for a lot of people. (Particularly if they're on a gamepad.)
"Can Carpenters make bows" is a question with neither a yes or no answer. Yes, Carpenters can create bows... however, it requires the intervention of much more than carpenters to make bows. You actually will require parts from a number of other craftsman that, without, the bow simply cannot be made. In a way, while the Carpenter is the final part of the bow, they are the least part of it, the actual assembly of the bow is going to be easier than the assembly of some of the materials that went into it. Furthermore, not al bows are actually finished by Carpenters, some bows are made by Leatherworkers and Goldsmiths, for example. Consequently, this simple question puts a FFXIV player in an awkward position of having quite a mouthful to inform you. This is why they would probably prefer you do a little research.
Some good sites to know:
Yellow Goblin
The Lodestone
I'm sorry, but did you write anything at all in this thread that would have me believe otherwise? I just work with what you give me. Also, the fact that you took what I wrote entirely as an attack at yourself specifically says pretty much all I needed to know, and also ensures me that trying to have any kind of reasonable discussion with you is impossible since it will most likely always concede to you feeling personally offended if your exact views aren't agreed with entirely.
My main point was that it seems ridiculous to try and defend anti-social behavior within the community of an mmo, which I only elaborated on because you specifically asked for it. Mike said it all, and I said it again.
I'd agree that my conclusions are hasty if not for the fact that I've read many of your posts on this forum and I've seen where most of them eventually wind up. But sure, I'll admit that I might be totally wrong and you're really the most rational, altruistic person on the planet, so as long as the people who associate with you are within the boundaries of what you consider to be an acceptable threshold of intelligence. See, I met you in the middle
.
You see, all I ask is I'm offered the benefit of the doubt. I don't believe that poster you agreed with did that. You'd be surprised how easy it is to choose to misinterpret someone in the worst possible way. They may believe you've done everything in your power to represent yourself well, but come off as a terrible person, even if the greater body of this happened to be a consequence of the reader's own chosen interpretation.
ok dude read what i said above it was a yes or no question fo "CAN CARPENTERS MAKE BOWS" sorry for the caps but READ IT. i am not asking for hand outs im not asking anyone to teach me what to do. I am asking what profetion makes bows. as for the LS community sure i will give it a shot but good lord. OH &@&;% a stupid fricken newb asked a question. OHH F*#($% he is trying to be social. well F(#* that (#$% he might ask me to do a favor for him... HMMMMMMMM is it maybe he is trying to just meet the locals. maybe trying to get to know the people around him probably. See whats going on? I AM SORRY if i would have known that trying to be social was such a taboo in this game then i really would not have gotten it in the first place.
Here is a qestion for you all that dont want to be bothered by a silly little old newb like me. How is it that you go out and meet people in RL? You say Hello. My name is ________ how are you. Did i miss something in the past decade? hell i know that the world is a really crappy place atm and people dont want to give anything away but. How else are you going to meet some one?
Okay, I just answered you back here. Extensively. And this is your reply.
This is kinda what I'm talking about when I said I'd hesistate to answer that question if I saw it in-game. You really do need to exert more effort to have a ghost of a chance of playing Final Fantasy XIV at all.
Well, I can agree with that and I'll admit that I don't know enough to make a fair assessment of you. So I'll just say that I'm sorry for being too hasty and more harsh than I should have been in my posts. Semantical misunderstanding can sometimes play a key role in these misinterpretations, and I think that might be the case here.
ok but can you guys see what the problem is here? You automaticaly assumed something without even trying to figure out what i ment to say. Yes i could have been more elaborate i will admit that. I should have explained more. But, to me its soulds like you guys see what i wrote and made the notion that i am some creepy weirdo saying "hi" and what makes what. then i have people some of you guys saying that if i dont know it already i should not be playing. FUN is what a game is. I should not have to do hours of research before hand just so that i can have some fun and meet new people. People should be willing to just talk. It is not like there is any commitment in these games to become freinds with the person. Now about people crafting in the camps Not everyone is crafting there are tons of people walking in and out. That could have just said its more complex then simple carpentry that you will need diferent items that are made by diferent crafts. But nowadays its dont help the newb because he will ask me for money or armor or weapons. I guess what i am getting at is maybe you should try to see if there is something else going on. Maybe you will make a cool friend in the process. It not like you have anything real to lose.
But meseche! Those 10 seconds are so precious! To stop and treat you like a human being would be a ginormous waste of time since I could be using that time to knock off 1% of my run time to the next objective! WTF are you thinking? You expect a moment of my time???!!1
Facetiousness aside, for a game that's supposed to be about the journey and a beautiful immersive world, people sure as hell are in a hurry if they ignore every last person who speaks in /say or /shout, and they obviously aren't immersed for long if every little while they have to either crash the game to check for info or just run in windowed mode w/borders so they can check up their favorite website for info (that or check their special little notepad). The perpetual hypocrisy of this game's players and defenders never ceases to amaze me, particularly in a thread like this where you have multiple people attempting to rationalize such behavior. Worse still is when part of their argument is based on linkshells of which obviously a person asking for help in /say or /shout isn't. The worst part though? Saying said linkshells are, in fact, not cliques at all, yet refusing to extend their hand to ask a random stranger to join, all under the assumption that that person is beneath them due to not knowing the answer or having looked for it themselves after asking a simple question in the only chat channels available to them at that point.
Barrens looks better by the post. At least Chuck Norris wouldn't put up with that kind of shit...
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Geldon, you're a very scary person at times and I'm sorry to say that your posts do more damage then good to the overall feeling I'm ( we're) getting of the FF community.
I do hope you're not exemplary for this community, but Kaocan supporting you makes it difficult to think differently.
I am NOT talking about the fact that you like the game, I respect that ... I'm talking about how you go about it.
I'd just like to say, I see where you're coming from with your initial post and don't wish to get into it as others have. However, I also got the impression WSIMike did, and God knows we don't see eye to eye on certain things him and I.
Although I don't agree with his attitude towards your post, I do agree the ppl in the game are more silent and 'introverted' than older games where we used to chatted more.
The genre HAS changed, and unfortunately those of us that like to be more social and friendly find this new 'attitude' lacking in our enjoyment of new MMOs.
Are there reasonable justifications for such behavior? Maybe. Saying that nothing can be done however is being defeatist and unwilling to push for change. Things CAN be done. We just need to think of the whole community and not only our own existence in the game.
I, for one, do my best to help others if i can and only hope others will do the same. Otherwise, this will have detrimental effects for the future of the community.
Have you perhaps seen the character limit in chat, together with the size of the actual chatbox? If someone wanted to try to explain crafting ( or ANYTHING else, really ), they'd have to sit there creating a wall of text one snippet at a time. That's why I haven't really been talking in game, the chat system is just too much of a pain to type out anything other than "Yes" or "No".
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Talking with your fellow players and answering appropriate questions is part of playing the game, it's called building community. That's part of why players can even meta-game. Without players asking questions and having those questions answered you and other people sharing this incredibly selfish mindset aren't going to benefit from the experience of others in a MMORPG. The OP wasn't asking for a handout, they were asking a legitimate question and hearing their voice echo says something about the mindset of the present community. That's not cool, it's simply not cool.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Ok you lost me here, are you exaggerating here on the forums to make a fictional point or have you actually encountered this in FFXIV? Because I have yet to see anythign like this in game yet. I've run into some seriously wierd people too, and nobody has ever treated them like this.
This game has been nothing but friendly and social for me, on 3 different servers now. The one I'm on now is mostly French people, and even they are friendly.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Oh look, MMO snobs on mmorpg. How unusual.
Kaocan Maybe you have been the lucky one. But no what i have been saying Has been happening to me ingame. And it keeps on happening. Like i asked a question of what kind of monsters drop wind crystals and shards? you know what answer i got back. Some guy telling me to head north and sit by a rock and just wait. That eventualy they (the shards) would just show up. thats all i got from them. Now hey i get that it was a joke where we all can get a good /laugh at. Especialy if i would have been that gullible. But, thats all i got. no help from a bunch of people making stuff using the wind crystals and selling them. So someone knew where to get them but no i just get a smart remark. Hey its a joke right fun for the person making it but i ask you all. Where is the fun for the person wanted to do/make something?
Join a linkshell get to know a group of people instead of just some guy trying to probably do something. And, for anything related to something you need for like crafting you can't go wrong with having steam running so you can just check a database while still in game. You can what drops what shards and what you need to make whatever you need with little effort.
What scares me is, if you look at the posts from the original poster and several of his follow up, it seems to me like this is precisely the kind of guy you'd be justified to suggest he apply himself a bit more. Not to be a snob, but for his own good if he is to have any chance of enjoying the game. "Teach a man to fish," and all that. However, a significant number of people have interpretted my saying so with phoney-balony kneejerking that I'm the bad guy to say so.
That's not true mortality, it's a poor substitute at best, and deeply counterproductive to making the world a better place. It's like the people in my sociology class that, upon seeing the results of an extensive study that attributes some traits which can be seen as negative as being common in a specific society, they exclaim, "that's racism!" No, it's not racism, it's the results of a scientific study.
If one is resolved to shout down anyone looking to solve a social problem just so the affected individuals can feel better about something even they themselves know is wrong, then one is being an impediment to the good of mankind. One might end up more popular if they feign being a crusader of the people at every opportunity, being praised by like-minded individuals is likely where they picked up the habit, but considering they're just doing more harm than good, they damn well wouldn't deserve such a title.
And that's waaay more thought going into the matter than anyone was expecting, so it's best if I stop here.
This reminds me of some joke article I read for WoW, where asking a legitimate question would just get you ignored or trolled. The article "taught" that to get the answers you wanted, you needed to have a friend pretend to actually answer but give the wrong information, so then all those that ignored you are quick to laugh at and correct them (usually in some condescending way).
I must admit, I don't know how it feels as I've yet to ask a question, but I do try to answer questions I know the answer to if I'm not currently busy. To think that giving the cold shoulder to someone needing help is the "proper" way to build a community is just silly. In fact, there are numerous examples of the community even in beta going out to help complete strangers, one being the recipes for crafting (notice I'm talking pre lodestone). Would have been extremely easy to just say "Bah! Let them figure it out for themselves!" and kept the recipes for their own use, but that wouldn't have been very productive to forming a community, would it? Or even some of the posters here in the crafting thread before release, and so forth.
The only issue I ever see is when the asker gets unbelievably attached and then comes the rain of questions every minute and at every log on. At that point, I just quietly try to separate myself, but that's a more uncommon scenario.
Finally, I must admit to agreeing to other posters here who have shown a dislike to the "you must join a guild/clan/LS" mentality. This is nothing unique to FF14, but in general. I really like to play MMOs to interact and meet with new people as I play the game, as it tends to always be a different experience even if it's just in the topic for the chatter. Sticking to just cliques or a preset group of people to interact with... well, I'd prefer to go load up Borderlands or play any team based FPS game (ah, the memories from BF2...) in that case. I understand their purpose for late game stuff, such as the instances or raids, but being a requirement for just the general game? That just seems really off to me.
Though, to play a bit of devil's advocate, as I said I can't connect to the feeling very much since I've had a decent amount of luck getting strangers to respond and group up, especially at certain grinding spots. And as an RPer, random RP hasn't been that hard to find either (even though most of the people I meet are not RPers).
Today I wanted to quit to go to bed, and I did a /doze with my character.
A other character responded and woke me up.
So I walked to him and said.
"Did you wake me up?"
And actually we started to RP in /say, whcih was fun, other people joined in, but I had trouble to follow the chat because of all sync messages (I need to filter my chat )
Anyway People talk, but it all depends on what you say.
If I hear someone random say: Hi?
Then I don't know if that someone is talking to me or someone else, when I am bored I probably say Hi back, but when I am on a quest, or in a group, then I will ignore it.
Best is to target someone and say Hello <t> Can I ask you a question? In my expierence people just think someone else will tell in /tell. So if you ask it to a name you have a good change to get a reply. (If they aren't AFK)
Be aware, a crafter who is busy can't type, the risk of fail is high.
Also a lot of people go afk for a little while (eat, phone, looking at website, whatever)
Or just chatting in LS or tell.
The fun thing was me and the other role player were joking about all people looked like statues or zombies, so many people and so quiet. So when I read your topic I /chuckle a little.