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Why all the hate?
leojreimroc
Member UncommonPosts: 371
While all the commotion concerning FFXIV has kept me entertained for these past few weeks, I have to ask myself....why all the hate?
This game seems to be polarizing everybody, more so that most other games. People come on here to venomously attack or trying to defend this game, and I ask myself why? This game is certainly not for everyone (obviously), but there's a decent amount of people who are enjoying it. Why not stop there? Is it just trolling? The whole thing confuses me.
Comments
Because it's the third worst MMORPG in history! TOTAL FAIL DUDE!
According to gamespot anyway.
I really enjoy it. Go figure.
this is my first time on all week because i was too busy playing and enjoying the game, the nerve! either way this will bring all the usual "it's okay" or "it's horrible" argument, so i'll say this...I, MYSELF, INDIVISUALLY like this game as a whole so far...in time i hope they improve on what shortcommings it does have (ui is a bit of a pain...chat options are not a mess but can be improved.....and once this week i had the "regenerating firefly epic batttle" bug) but overall it's got me hooked. i'm sorry if that fuels the ire of others...but hey, to each their own.....i'll say if you want to give the game a chance but are still on the fence get a buddy pass or just wait until ps3 release and see if you'll want to grab it. it's not perfect, it's not the most ultimate mmo of all time, but as a former ffxi player...i'll say i'm enjoying it.
Played:FFXI, WoW, LOTR,EQ. Playing:FFXIV.
Looking Forward To:DCU, SWTOR.
I had high hopes for this game as well. It sucks, though. I don't see why I can't say that.
The game fucking sucks. There.
Some people think they are saving people money from what they think is garbage, and some people think they are sharing a great experience and want others to find the same return on their investment for the money.
Haters and their opinion will be validated through poor sales and low game populations. Lovers and their opinion will be validated through good sales and high game populations. Thus the battle for the state of the game continues, as ego and the psychological need for a human being to have the "right" opinion pushes compromise down a flight of stairs and walks off with the Prom Queen.
p.s. I am not a psychologist and I have no education in such a field. Purely amateurish speculation on a heated debate. Do not taunt Happy Fun Ball.
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"
Why the hate?? Well thats simple, its like a 4th grader really, when they dont get thier way they stomp thier feet, kick and scream and throw a temper tantrum. Well thats what happened with FFXIV, so many people thought they knew what it was going to be like, but it just so happened they didnt actually work for SE and well, SE did what they wanted on thier game design...without consulting all these 4th graders FIRST. So when the game finally came out, and it wasn't exactly the way they wanted it to be, they kicked and screamed and got all mad, and they are still going on about how they didnt get what they wanted exactly how they wanted it. Its not enough for them to know its not what they wanted, but they have to make sure there is a big enough scene so everyone else knows how much they really wanted what they wanted. You see, if they were adults, they would just admit the game isn't to thier liking and move on, but since they are 4th graders, they can't do that with out the kicking and screaming.
P.S. I wrote all that as a joke, really. If you feel it refers to you, well....it isn't pointed at anyone in particular, but the theory may hit home to some. And if you feel it may accurately describe you, then perhaps it may serve as a wake up call that we are in fact adults afterall, and we are just discussing a computer game right. It's not like someone stole your iPhone or wife or something.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
Haters will hate.
I've been really enjoying the game, and I have a feeling I will continue to do so. I have this theory that I was shipped an entirely different game, cause I can't understand half the things people complain about.
My new favorite forum-rage topic is the "SE BETTER GIVE US MORE CONTENT" Next to the topics saying "SE BETTER NOT DO HOLIDAY EVENTS TILL THEY FIX ___"
this is the worst reply in forums history... why write it down if you dont mean it?
As for reply to the topic itself because im sure you did mean it; you analogy to a 4th grader is all wrong, think more about a 16 y.o. boy that has his 1st car ... fanboi will like the car no matter what ... rust, noise, fuel cost etc etc And the hater will see a car that hasnt 2-4-5th gear, burns more oil than fuel, smells like vomit... So yes he will complain.
I like FF ip alot but nothing in this game pulls me towards enjoying it.
Everything Haters as you may call them, complains about is NOT related to gameplay but some BASICS every MMO should have or not ... UI lag is not made especialy for the fanboi, and so is bad controls. No general chat maybe a hardcore feature but in my world its just an obstacle. WE haters complain about programming bugs and broken features not how the game playing style is.
The 'this game his not for you' argument was pulled out so often that im really trying to find to whom it was designed for. My granma might be in the target market for this game.
Heh, funny thread and subject.
Come on, let's face it, there've been stupid arguments from both sides and 'extremists' that went overboard in irrational ranting or extreme dislike as well as in blind fanboism, but also more reasonable voices among the fans and the opponents.
My most basic puzzlement is the fact that some people apparently still feel the need to keep lingering around and posting negative posts of a game they don't play at all anymore. When I have lost interest in a game, I simply move on to another interest, I don't devote time or attention keeping track or posting about the game I don't enjoy anymore. Like WoW for example, I don't play it anymore but I don't feel the need to keep an eye on WoW forums or to post all kinds of critical or otherwise negative posts about it in the WoW forumsection.
So, to return to the OP question, why the 'hate'?
I guess reasons depend upon the person, it differs from one to another.
But several very likely reasons:
- a 'crusade of justice': some feel the game has failed, and the game and its company should be 'punished' by campaigning to highlight all its negative aspects, in the hope that the game will fold, like an APB or TR.
- disappointment and disillusion: some people bought the game and feel cheated, the reality isn't what they'd expected of the game
- 'vengeance': also people who feel cheated, but this causes them to do whatever they can to 'hurt' the game, or they use the forum to vent their bitterness and anger. Those are the most likely to attack people that say they like the game, bc these people aren't interested in counter arguments, they want to trash any goodwill or positive voice regarding the game or company
- drive by trolls and gloaters
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
True, but you know sometimes when you say what is wrong people try to fix it... If you dont complain it will stay as it is. I complain because SE broke the IP. There is nothing that cant be fixed and I am sure that it wont be a miracle patch that will do the thing ... some bugs are major and will require 2-3 patches to make it work properly. As is it for the game desing well ill live with a console game even if they promised us it would be a PC game but the other bugs must be fixed first so yes i will continue to follow the forums to see if they fix something and if it makes it right.
It's not hate ... it's common sense.
The game is not finished by a long shot, even the fans need to acknowledge this.
But by acting like elitist pricks, looking down on everyone who dares to speak out any criticism towards the game, calling them intellectually challenged and even compairing them to 4th graders results in flame wars.
TLDR: The "blind" fans are responsible for the hate.
Amen, One by one the reviews will say the same... unfinished game.
Yes, there are some flaws which make me exit the game from time to time and then the delay and heavy performance..
But other than that well... i cant really say if i like it or hate it. It's new and interesting and there's lots to discover still.
Hopefully they can make it better.. because its clear they pushed it too soon out.
the best way to kill a troll is to FLAME ON! ...or with acid...
Nonsense, that is just retaliation behaviour and an immature, petty attitude.
I've glanced this forumsection from time to time and from what I can tell, except for 1 or 2 extreme fans, the more extreme reactions can be seen from a number of the cynics and opponents.
In most responses from fans I can see acknowledgement of some of the obvious flaws of the game - there are as good as none of them that say that the game is perfect or that it has no flaws. But some of the perceived 'flaws' are game features, design dectisions, and of those some of the fans say that they like those while tolerating the obvious flaws.
I've witnessed a number of times now how those fans still were being attacked for stating their enjoyment of the game like that, being namecalled 'fanboi' to being blind or religiously devoted or stupid. Apparently some people couldn't accept the simple fact that there are people who can enjoy a game like FFXIV, or who have no trouble with some of the design decisions that the opponents had problems with. Everyone is entitled to their criticism or dislikes, but responses like attacking or ridiculing fans because of their likings is a step beyond that.
Btw, saying 'it is not a game for everyone' is not a dumb argument, it is a simple statement of reality. Nobody has to feel offended by it, and neither does it mean that if somebody uses that argument that they automatically mean that the game has no flaws.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Really funny to see how your iPhone comes first, your wife second
About the OP question, most of the possible reasons have been given already.
However I would add the fact that game is one of the few which has tried to be a multi-platform MMO.
Which is a hell of a challenge if you ask me. Apparently SE failed on that part, which is no surprise.
Most of the community here is MMO veterans, and consequently is familiar with the rich interface of a PC MMO (99% of the market?).
A poor console interface cannot make us happy, and it is a by design feature, that no future patch will ever fix (console players would be betrayed otherwise).
Sure, the most motivated fans can probably overcome that, but that leaves a good amount of possible haters I think.
I bet that makes you the 3rd worst person in the world!
Well Cyphers I have to respectfully disagree with you.
I regard you as one of the more levelhadded fans (if I may use this word in your case) and rarely a flamewar ignites when you are doing the talking, same goes for other likeminded people.
But, as you said, there are a bunch of fans who allways manage to get a fullout war going just by doing the elitist things I described in my post.
Could be we have different filters when it comes to this subject because we are both on the opposite side of the fence
Heh, I admit that I'm more on the side of the proponents, but that's more because I've trouble understanding people who can keep ranting excessively about a game they don't even play anymore, since I'm not built that way myself. Note that I say 'rant': not the same as criticism about the game, which can be done by both fans and people who disliked the game, I've no problem with respecting that.
About the extremist fans, well, I don't keep a watch on all these threads here, so far I noticed only a few of the posting fans who went beyond the pale. I could've missed some others; but I did notice more than a few opponents who resorted to ridiculing or namecalling of fans or attacking them on their liking of the game. You have to admit, there have been several 'hater's or 'dislikers' who have acted at least as extreme as the few extremist fans
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
The part I enjoy the most about the two sides to this is how neither will believe a word the other says. One side says 'its obvious the game was rushed' and the other says 'why is it obvious, I dont think its obviously rushed', and they stick to thier guns as if the other person shot them or something by disagreeing with them.
Take the UI lag for instance, there are many who claim it is a universal problem in this game that effects everyone constantly, and they argue that point vehemently. But for me, I never see UI lag in anything I do in game unless its inventory related, and thats honestly minimum now. So how do you communicate with one another on the same issue if both sides see something completely different? Is the person who really sees UI lag all the time wrong? No, they actually do see it. Well what about the person who doesn't see the UI lag, are they wrong? No, they really do not see the UI lag when they play.
Thats the thing with FFXIV, half the crowd actually sees things one way, and the other half see it the complete opposite. Its not that one side is making thiers up, it really is a night and day issue, where both sides really do see things differently. And that is why everyone argues thier point so strongly, everyone is right with what they see. Of course you will argue what you know is right. But, the next time you do on this game think of it this way. If I live in Seattle and I tell you its raining outside right now, and you live in Atlanta and tell me its not raingin outside rigth now. well who is right and who is wrong?? I contend we both are right and should just accept that we both see things differently because of our own experiences. Instead of trying to force the other party to believe what you see HAS to be the only truth, perhaps you should think it might be possible there are two truths.
And as for the 4th grader annology, I said it wasn't directed at any person in particular, and it wasn't. There are just as many on both sides of this debate who are kicking and screaming far more than any adult ever should. That was the point.
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
First of all, these are the only type of post that draw me to reply in this board anymore.
That aside, if you tell me it's raining in Seattle and I don't think I should believe you, I check the weather via internet. It's not like it's the 1950's, after all. But let's not kid ourselves here; fans aren't in Seattle, and non-fans aren't in Atlanta. Everyone is in, or has been in, Eorzea. To try and - once again - polarize the issue is all too convenient when things aren't going your way in a discussion.
The fact is that you just admitted by your own analogy that you understand while it's not raining on you, it is on others. The fact is that it shouldn't be raining on anyone. Just because the game runs well and lag-free on your PC doesn't mean that it does on everyone else's. The fact again is that it should be properly optimized to run on anyone's PC that meets the requirements of the game, and especially those that exceed them. It does not, and whether or not it will is irrelevant to those who paid for the game, and haven't been given what they paid for. That's not a matter of perception or subjective opinion; it's matter of fact.
Now clearly, there are some things that fall to subjectivity and the "not every game is meant for everyone" rhetoric, but on the whole there are more issues than just the laggy UI and poor optimization that lean towards fact more than just personal opinion. However, I'll withhold my comments on those because I'm not currently playing the game, and haven't in its "release" state. Still, to try and pin everything down to black and white and your opinion vs. mine is the childish part here, not people expressing their disappointment and disdain for SE having not given them what they paid for. It's about more than just expectations, too. It's more about principle and standards, and I don't think people are being unfair for the most part.
"The power of accurate observation is commonly called cynicism by those who have not got it."
George Bernard Shaw
What is a cynic? A man who knows the price of everything and the value of nothing.
Oscar Wilde
Btw this game is not for everyone IS a dumb argument: We all know it aint for eveyone on a basis that no mmo can please everbody. APB wasnt for everyone either but just too much .. it died.
I do accept you can like the game btw, its just that i dont have lower standard has you have. SE told us some promises and they were not fullfilled. I am willing to play FF ip but not in this broken game. We deserve more quality than this ( exept graphics, wich are good) and its my right to be frustrated that SE didnt delivered.
I complain to see the flaws im pointing out dissaprear.
At its current state your are right indeed the game aint made for me because I demand way more quality than this.
Ahh well see there you go off the deep end again. For me FFXIV is great graphics, no lag, tons of things to do, plenty of freidnly and sociabale people to play with who are helpful all the time to everyone. We all have tons of fun every day playing it. To me its bright sunshine, beach chairs, and little umbrellas in our drinks. We do however believe that it is possible there are people out there who do not share our experience, and even if we occasionally attempt to tell you from time to time that we do not see things your way, we do not go out of our way to FORCE YOU TO SEE IT OUR WAY!!
As for what should or shouldn't be, well you know what, here is the fact of it. If someone produces a game, lets call it FFXIV for example, and it functions exactly as intended for 50% of the people who play it. Is it broken?? Not for the 50% it works just fine for it isn't. Now you can argue all you want that its not optimized and it should be, sure, it should be I'll give you that. But then again, maybe the game is and your computer or your ISP connection are the blame. Maybe its just an error between the keyboard and chair, it happens some times. But you know what, none of that really matters does it in the end.
And just to clearify, I know for a fact that it doesn't work perfect for everyone, because I have seen it first hand. I also know for a fact that most of these issues everyone is bitching about as far as lag goes (with the exception of the server side inventory lag) are pc specific. I also know for a fact that with half a brain and some patience you can overcome these issues on your own end. But, thats not what we have here now is it? No, what we have here is a crap ton of people who from day one have declared EVERYTHING is caused by the game on the server side. Which is false. You may not belive me, and really thats your right, but it is true. As long as you sit there and say its all SE's fault because it can't possible be anyone elses, well that just makes you look...well sorry to say it, but stupid. Biting off your nose to spite your face is the phrase that comes to mind.
[snip]
(DISCLAIMER - The use of the word YOU in the above post is not directed at any one person in particular, but towards those who fall into the category itself - there is no personal attack here, neither intentional nor implied.)
In my opinion some of the "hate" originated in the way SE treated the beta testers. More accurately, the way they did not treat them, hehe. While I like SE for sticking to game design decisions (though some may not fit for me or a majority or both), but there is no excuse for ignoring obviously technically broken things, like the UI, the controls, the chat window etc. Missing content can and will be fixed, also all these performance and lag stuff, but the UI and the real issues that make the game feel unfinished will stay all the same for years. Because the stuff everybody is complaining about, is well known for squenix - at least they could have read all that in the alpha/beta forums.
Currently playing: EverQuest
Waiting for Pantheon: Rise of the Fallen
To put it bluntly , the game is just boring. Not sure why it is generating so much hate from this site, though. You would think alot of the people here would be happy , since it has alot of sandbox elements to it that the people here seem to want to bring back to the genre.
Ya know, less content and let the players make the content type of game. This one just doesn't have houses.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The average guy is going into his local video store, and getting riped off.
Most people have very little money, they don't need garbage such as FF14.