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Is everyone here insane?
Nicephorus
Member Posts: 52
Insanity: doing the same thing over and over again and expecting different results.
Albert Einstein, (attributed)
US (German-born) physicist (1879 - 1955)
I don't think anyone here here will argue that the history of MMOs has not been filled with countless examples of games that many people find disappointing. The lifecycle for many of these games is familiar to us all. Game is announced and generates untold amounts of hype. This, everyone say, will be the best thing since sliced bread, the game I have been waiting for my entire adult life, the WOW killer. Then, as we get closer to release, and more actual information becomes available, "concerns" beging to pop up in the forums. I believe for FFXIV, this point may have been when the videos of the combat system in the alpha build showed up. You have the inevitable responses from the "fanboys" about how its not even beta yet. Eventually the beta comes out, and more an more people see how the game doesn't quite match up to their idea of the "perfect" game they were hoping for. Eventually the game releases, and it is not "ready". There are tons of bugs, the game is lacking in content, in short, the game bares no resemblance to what was hyped way back at the original announcement.
Sound about right? Now for myself, having experienced many MMO releases over the years, very little surprises me. I preordered FFXIV with the full expectation that I would be participating in a buggy, "unfinished" product. If it turned out to be even more unfinished than I expected, well, I learned all I needed to know in the weeks leading up to release, and I had plenty of time to cancel my preorder, if I had chosen to do so. In the end, despite all of its many problems (Like many, I cannot stand the UI), I am still enoying FFXIV. The release does not seem that far out of line in comparison with the many other games I have participated in.
I realize many of you here with disagree with that last point, and I'm not really here to argue that. Lets conceed, for the sake of arguement, that the FFXIV release was really bad. For those of you who went out and either preordered the game, or rushed out and bought it on release, and are now here flaming about how the game is the worst in the history of MMOs, I have one simple question for you. Why? Just that. Why? Surely not anyone who wasnt living in a cave prior to Sep 22 can claim that any aspect of FFXIV is actually a surprise. There was a tremendous amount of information available about every aspect of the game once the NDA was lifted. And of course there was the open beta. And this is one area where I will actually agree with the worst trolls. If you logged onto the open beta a few weeks before release, and you found the game unacceptable, then it was extremely unlikely that the game was going to magically change into an acceptable state on release day. And even if you are one of those people who was living in a cave, the precedent I described above tells us that the vast majority of new MMOs simply do not live up to the hype. Maybe its just me, but I'm thinking anyone with the tiniest bit of common sense who had any misgivings about the game would have simply waited. Waited for the professional reviews, waited while the idiot early adopters paid to finish the beta test for you. Eventually, either the game would be improved enough where it would be in a state more acceptable to you, or you could write if off as yet another POS, and congradulate yourself on how you didnt waste your money. But since many obviously did not follow this wise course of action, I will ask once again....
Are you insane???
Comments
You are obviously clearly angry. Step away from the keyboard, sir! Everyone that plays MMO's knows they are never buying a "finished" product at launch. It just depends on how finished.
Before the Beta ended people cited problems but many fans/players had the belief that these problems would not possibly be allowed to persist at launch, and that they would be fixed.
Nobody is insane, or lacks any common sense; however, they may have had their faith in SE rattled. SE is quite a prestigious company, and when they say X, I will, in good faith, believe it and give them the benefit of the doubt. It just didn't work out this time...yet?
"The most merciful thing in the world, I think, is the inability of the human mind to correlate all its contents." -H.P. Lovecraft, "The Call of Cthulhu"
You should be buying a finsihed product at launch. Or at least a well polished product with few bugs and actual things to do.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
QFT.
Take a step back & relax.
No MMO is ever released completely finished, they are supposed to evolve. However, with the exception of graphics, FFXIV released in an unfinished state that would've been acceptable 10 years ago. They are very much behind the curve on this one. If this doesn't bother you, then that's fine. You aren't the only one that seems to enjoy the game. However, most people don't and it shouldn't be that much of a shocker.
Most people here aren't insane, they just don't want to pay top dollar for a game that is less complete than many of the F2P games on the market.
I agree w/ you sir, this is the case w/ console games, but unfortunately doesn't seem to be so with PC releases. I think part of the reason why this is, is due to these companies and the consumer growing used to the idea that mmo's are never finished products at launch. Just wished ppl understand that they have an impact on how these companies develop due to their outlook on what launch/release of a title means to them. Companies have gotten lazy and have that "patch-as-you-go" attitude. However, that is due in part to the passivity of today's consumers for allowing this behaviour to continue by purchasing the product regardless of it's state of completion at launch.
It's a double-edged sword, and its partially our permissiveness as consumers that help to reinforce this lazy behaviour by those companies to "patch-as-you-go" to prevail.
The game should have something more to do than just leve quests all day. When is that gonna change? If they want their game to be successful they have to at least have more content and something fun going on to keep people interested. First impressions can make or break a game. I have seen tons of games that dropped the ball on release and then started making improvements to the game, but they never got back the initial numbers they had to begin with.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I have to agree. Though most people know the reailty that most releases aren't finished at launch, we SHOULD EXPECT them to be. When did it become acceptable for an unfinshed product to be ok.
I think I'll buy this NEW car w/o breaks... they have the best intentions of putting them in later... yea
You'll have to address that in many other public forums such as slashdot; This isn't limited to mmorpg.com.
How many people spend their free time trawling gaming forums, researching their next potential purchases? I don't know, but I'll hazard a guess that it's far fewer than those that "hear" there's a new game from familiar franchise out, and simply lay down the cash for it, with the expectation that it will at least be half decent.
You assume that all gamers are wise enough to do their homework or jaded enough to expect the very worst. I don't agree this is the case so I don't consider them insane. I think it's more likely they're just irresponsible consumers who put their faith in a product when it isn't warranted. "Insane" is just so much hyperbole.
I don't know what this talk is about expecting a finished product, I just expect some content. I don't see content in this game. I'm not asking for the amount of content that games that have been out for 3 years or more have. That's silly. I expect more than grinding and crafting. I can already find this in every free to play game out there and it won't cost me a penny. This is a beautiful game graphically with a huge amount of potential for me to become a long term player... when it has some content. If you boot this game up and play up any higher than rank 10 you will see there is nothing in this game, if it hadn't become apparent even before that point. Yes I love the crafting, I love the combat, the sluggish UI I can deal with for now, the bugs this game has are very few. It's the content. 5 years and this is what they have? C'mon guys, this is pathetic. If it's insane to be disappointed that this game by far lacks more content than any other MMORPG I've ever played at launch, then call me insane.
"Lets conceed, for the sake of arguement, that the FFXIV release was really bad. For those of you who went out and either preordered the game, or rushed out and bought it on release, and are now here flaming about how the game is the worst in the history of MMOs, I have one simple question for you. Why? Just that. Why? Surely not anyone who wasnt living in a cave prior to Sep 22 can claim that any aspect of FFXIV is actually a surprise. There was a tremendous amount of information available about every aspect of the game once the NDA was lifted. And of course there was the open beta."
You make a good point. I had read all the complaints. I still bought it. I'm still allowed to voice my opinion. I'm not pissed that I spent money on the game. Everything I want is there minus content.
I could pose a similar question to you. If you read forums about the game before it was released and new about the amount of people complaining about the game, why would you come here after release and expect it to be different?
Are you insane?
That is the exact probelms I saw in this game. The lack of content.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
The fact that SE wanted major sites to wait a month before publishing reviews is a virtual self-admission this game was not ready. They should have delayed the game if they felt this way and deserve any and all bad press they get.
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What I would rather ask is: "Is SquareEnix insane?"
To release a product with such odd mechanics, tedious menu system, horrendous market features, limited communication channels, and obvious lack of content. It's not an innovative way of doing things, it's going back to the ape creatures.
Yes, content can be added, market features can be corrected, even the communication system can be inproved. But the core game mechanics cannot. And the problem is, they are no fun.
Now, THIS is insanity.
As customers, we expect a finished, well polished product.
It's not that the game is unfinished. No mmo is ever finished. It's that it was poorly designed.
I agree the old MMO's are never finsihed excuse for games launching in a bad state is BS.Yes MMO's are and should be constantly evolving and growing in content,but that does not mean customers shouldn't expect and be delivered a minimum amount of content for their initial purchase and that what is there shouldn't be polished and in an acceptable working state bar a few unforseen bugs due to the huge amount of PC configurations out there.
When people say unfinished. They don't mean that the game will not have updates and no expansions, that it's done deal. They mean the game is full of bugs , unpolished , or is heavily lacking in content and playability. FF14 is all of those things I just listed, aside from maybe the bugs. Didn't notice alot of them.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
^^^This....
I pay for a "gold" product, I expect one. Simple. Thankfully, over the many, many years of beta testing/playing, that I have garnered a good sense of which games I will like and dislike. Which ones are ready and not ready. And which ones are going to fail and are not going to fail.
I uninstalled this beta in a few hours...
Exactly. Especially when they are now charging upwards around 60-80 dollars for these games than a sub fee. Expansions which should have had the content in them to begin with will probably run you around 30-50 dollars.
This game was really expensive, and it seems like it just failed to deliver.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
This would be me. After too many disappointing releases only to hear some games actually improved quite a later post launch I've decided to put off trying questionable MMO's until at least 3-6 months have passed.
I recently gave Fallen Earth a trial for the first time at the one year mark, and I'm glad I waited as its a pretty decent game right now, probably would have felt quite differently back in the first few months after launch.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
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"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Angry? No, just extremely puzzled, even more so now. I'm really wondering about people's reading comprehension as of everyone answering this post, yours is the only response that even remotely attempts to address the actual issue raised, though I will say you have completely misread my attitude about it.
This was not a thread intended to defend FFXIV. Obviously, most of you here hate it, and my spending time telling you why you shouldnt hate it would be completely misplaced. Everyone has their own preferences, which by definition are neither right nor wrong, simply your own. I just don't understand why someone run out and buy a game when every single issue, and I mean every single one, was well known before release, and we have all seen so many games fail to live up to the hype. Your answer seems to be blind faith. That strikes me as a very poor excuse, but atleast it was an actual answer. All the other replies just want to complain about why FFXIV sucks, which makes me wonder if they even read the post.
And since it seems to have flown over the head of most people here, Ill spell it out. I included that definition at begining for a reason. If people continue to rush out and buy MMOs at launch, despite every precident that the vast majority of launches are disappointing, then either you fit the definition very well, or you have gone to a lot of trouble to remain blissfully uninformed.
I have played quite a few games that had alot more to do at launch than this game has, so that arguement really will not fly around here. You should stop defending this game and try to tell SE that you want them to add something more to do than just the same boring leve quests every day or the grinding. Maybe you are not defending, but you are here making excuses for this game to be shit quality.
"When it comes to GW2 any game is fair game"
I didn't find the vast majority of launches disappointing. I find the community (since we're going with generalizations) are extremely hard to please. This is another topic for another forum. You will see what I mean when those big duds a portion of the community are waiting for are released. I can name several releases I thought were enjoyable but didn't stick with because of already playing another MMO. Some of us like to try out MMORPGs like others like to try out new console games.
I got your original point. I thought it was a fail post.
I couldn't agree more! I'm not buying that the burnt posters aren't smart enough to read the reviews before getting burnt, but smart enough to post here after they got burnt! What really amazes me is there are still people expecting bug free releases with full content included, which no MMO including WoW had at release. I would think by now those upset by crappy releases would hold on to their precious money and allow the game some time to mature before jumping in with both feet fully knowing the likely hood of the perfect release is nill!
Aye.
I believe this whole lame 'MMO's are never finished' line came from a dev back in the day as a way to explain the difference between an MMORPG and a single player RPG. Since that time it became a battle cry for poor release defenders, and frankly it's annoying, because simple fact is when someone says 'unfinished' when talking about MMOs at launch, they essentially mean release ready.
Everyone knows that MMO's are supposed to be a game that evolves over time. They also know that content will be added over time as well. When a game launches and people say its 'unfinished' they are talking about the state the game is in at release. When a company releases a game to the public at retail, the game should at least be out of a beta state with as minimal problems as possible.
FFXIV is an example of a game that was released before it was ready, therefore 'unfinished'. Issues that permeated the game throughout beta still existed at retail launch. Optimizations that should have been made in beta are still waiting to be made. Even Squeenix knew that the game was in a state unworthy of it's $60-$80 price tags, hence asking the media to not review it until after 30 days from its launch date.
To the OP asking people if they are insane:
People had faith in Squeenix. They believed that the devs would release a game that was in good shape and playable. What they got in return was a game that was about 6 months away from being ready for public consumption. And Squeenix knew what they were doing when they released it in that state. They knew that the Square Enix name as well as the Final Fantasy brand would sell the game to even the most unsure of customers. They knew that people equated those two names to quality. So in an attempt to make as much money as possible before the general public caught on to the deception, they sent out nice little emails and letters to media outlets (both in NA and the EU as well as in Japan) asking for a 30 day post launch review embargo.
So who is more insane?
The consumer who is used to a company being an example of quality...
Or the company who thought releasing an unready product to the market and then asking the media to remain hushed while they collect sales...
There are 3 types of people in the world.
1.) Those who make things happen
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3.) And those who wonder "What the %#*& just happened?!"
" Is everyone here insane? "
You're here, are you insane?