i like to dick around in space and explore thats the the main point of any mmo for me, the arcade style tunnel shooter sounds like no fun at all and its just a cheap single player add on to what should be a great mmo.
the tunnel shooter crap is just a very poor idea by some immature kid and id have gladly waited for it to come in a addon and be more thought about instead of a cheap ass flash like game
Playing: FFXIV Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
i like to dick around in space and explore thats the the main point of any mmo for me, the arcade style tunnel shooter sounds like no fun at all and its just a cheap single player add on to what should be a great mmo.
the tunnel shooter crap is just a very poor idea by some immature kid and id have gladly waited for it to come in a addon and be more thought about instead of a cheap ass flash like game
That's great! A game like that already exists. Star Wars Galaxies. I assume you're playing it now?!
How do you figure that? From what we've seen so far, SWTOR is barely an MMORPG. Having tons of voice acting and a story (thats what the majority of the budget appears to have been spent on too) doesn't make a good MMO, it makes a good single player/coop game. That's not what MMOs are about. What you're calling "sim" fans, or "sandbox lovers" were once called... MMORPG lovers. They liked social virtual worlds. People you're calling "MMO lovers" sound more like, Diablo players, than MMORPG gamers. And actually, SWG was the second most popular MMORPG of its time, soo... yeah, a ton of MMORPG gamers loved it. I refuse to classify the new type of part time arcade gamers that hopped into the dying genre when WoW came out, as MMO gamers. They're not. MMO gamers are people that loved EQ, DAoC, UO, AC, SWG. Coop RPG players are those who look at SWTOR and think it'll be great.
Yawn. SWG again. Who was saying in another thread again that 'SWG' wasn't used as an argument by people that tried to pose nonsensical arguments in their criticism of SW:TOR? Quotes like this say enough.
I think that millions of MMORPG gamers who play in themepark MMO's like WoW, LotrO, etc prove you otherwise, saying that only sandbox lovers and sim fans are MMORPG lovers, excluding themepark MMO fans. As was expected, your kind of thinking says that all those millions of themepark MMORPG fans aren't MMO gamers. There's not much more to add to show the hilarious ridiculousness of such a statement. Do I sense some bitterness in your comments about the change of the MMORPG genre, feeling like a dinosaur where the meteor has already struck and the world is changing?
The fact that a lot of Star Wars fans didn't like SWG at all, as well as a lot of MMO gamers who gave it a try and grew bored of it quickly and added to that the mass exodus when MMORPG's as EQ2 and WoW hit the scene, says it all: SWG wasn't really the MMORPG they were looking for, let alone the Star Wars MMO.
You haven't proven anything with your comments, only that my statements were right as you as a sandbox lover showed with your comments and stance: SWG Pre-NGE was something for your type of MMO gamer, a sandbox/sim fan who doesn't like themepark MMO's at all, and naturally for someone like you who passionately dislikes themepark MMO's in contrast to the millions of themepark MMO gamers, SW:TOR is not what you're looking for.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
. SWG again. Who was saying in another thread again that 'SWG' didn't come up whenever people tried to pose nonsensical arguments in their criticism of SW:TOR? Quotes like this say enough.
Of course it's going to come up, just as I'm sure WoW will come up whenever WoW2 is made, and just like EQ came up during EQ2's development. SWG is the only other "Star Wars" MMO to compare it against mate.
Comparisons simply because of the main theme (Star Wars) are inevitable and should be expected. That doesn't mean you can discount every opinion/desire simply because someone brings up one failed Star Wars game or uses SWG as an example of a feature they'd like to see in SW:ToR.
. SWG again. Who was saying in another thread again that 'SWG' didn't come up whenever people tried to pose nonsensical arguments in their criticism of SW:TOR? Quotes like this say enough.
Of course it's going to come up, just as I'm sure WoW will come up whenever WoW2 is made, and just like EQ came up during EQ2's development. SWG is the only other "Star Wars" MMO to compare it against mate.
Comparisons simply because of the main theme (Star Wars) are inevitable and should be expected. That doesn't mean you can discount every opinion/desire simply because someone brings up one failed Star Wars game or uses SWG as an example of a feature they'd like to see in SW:ToR.
With all respect, but you know as well as I that it isn't the fact that SWG comes up what it's about, but how SWG comes up in the arguments of those strongly opposed against SW:TOR, as in the comments of this sandbox/sim fan guy who tries to say that all MMORPG's with WoW and afterwards aren't really MMORPG's and neither is SW:TOR, that the MMORPG genre thus has become a dying genre, and that themepark MMO gamers aren't real MMORPG gamers or MMO fans.
It's this kind of warped argumentation that you keep seeing back in the posts of the staunchest SW:TOR opponents, most of those are SWG pre-NGE vets or sandbox/sim fans.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
i like to dick around in space and explore thats the the main point of any mmo for me, the arcade style tunnel shooter sounds like no fun at all and its just a cheap single player add on to what should be a great mmo.
the tunnel shooter crap is just a very poor idea by some immature kid and id have gladly waited for it to come in a addon and be more thought about instead of a cheap ass flash like game
I like exploring to when it can be rewarding.
Just transversing a void? That's not fun for anyone or we'd have done it already in the really reals world.
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Hopefully this has already been mentioned but:
Rebel Assault and Rebel Assault II
Both tunnel shooters from roughly the same era.
So, Lucasarts did both. Plus this is Bioware who did a turret shooter in Kotor.
What exactly is your point?
Free roaming space game would nice. Very nice. But would add a layer of complexity to the game that I don't think Bioware wants to tackle... yet.
As with everything else SWTOR, we shall just have to wait and see. Maybe it will be a fun mini-game... yeah, it would be novel but who knows.
Im sorry but if u want galaxies go play it its still around. Its not like galaxies died a painful death its still going. Oh and how can warhammer be a failure of epic proportions? last i looked warhammer still exists as a game its not like apb.
I dont understand most of louse's logic. U cant call a game a complete failure when it still is running to this day while games like apb crash in burn in less then 6 months. I also dont really care if space combat was part of tor. Its not really a huge part of the books or movies. Most of star wars combat is on the ground.
Especially with jedi. Jedi sith dont fight there battles in space ships they fight them on space stations, on planets and other areas like that. All wars end up on the ground as well as u have to control planets u cant do that from space.
If u are gonna kill tor based on some fired employee with a grudge and gonna kill it based on the rail shooter. then it was never the game for u. go play gw 2 and when it fails to be the do all end all game everyone expects it to be come try tor.
For the record most of space will be instanced sorta like traveling from continent to continent in wow but the planets wont be. Bioware has stated at least 100 times maybe more that the planets are nice open areas where u will run into others. There is group play but not forced group play. There will be dungeons and most likely some sorta raid enviroment. There will also be pvp
Sure pvp on anything other then a pvp server will in all likelyhood be instanced like wow. But last i looked wow has 12 mil subs eve has maybe 500 k. Also lotro and ddo now that they are free 2 play has oave 1 mil player base as well.
Look im not a guy who wants to make up content i want the game to give me that. To give me quests and objectives to give me a great story i can enjoy and play over and over as diffrent classes.
This game is gonna have loads of content to play. the game play looks pretty good from what ive read. And th demos the people payed at the game conventions was actualy starting area of the game. they got to go in play there class and get a godo feel for it.
So far all i hear is good things about tor. Im not gonna lt a few qqers about space on rails and some ex employee with a grudge dissuade me from tryign this game out myself.
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
How do you figure that? From what we've seen so far, SWTOR is barely an MMORPG. Having tons of voice acting and a story (thats what the majority of the budget appears to have been spent on too) doesn't make a good MMO, it makes a good single player/coop game. That's not what MMOs are about. What you're calling "sim" fans, or "sandbox lovers" were once called... MMORPG lovers. They liked social virtual worlds. People you're calling "MMO lovers" sound more like, Diablo players, than MMORPG gamers. And actually, SWG was the second most popular MMORPG of its time, soo... yeah, a ton of MMORPG gamers loved it. I refuse to classify the new type of part time arcade gamers that hopped into the dying genre when WoW came out, as MMO gamers. They're not. MMO gamers are people that loved EQ, DAoC, UO, AC, SWG. Coop RPG players are those who look at SWTOR and think it'll be great.
Yawn. SWG again. Who was saying in another thread again that 'SWG' wasn't used as an argument by people that tried to pose nonsensical arguments in their criticism of SW:TOR? Quotes like this say enough.
I think that millions of MMORPG gamers who play in themepark MMO's like WoW, LotrO, etc prove you otherwise, saying that only sandbox lovers and sim fans are MMORPG lovers, excluding themepark MMO fans. As was expected, your kind of thinking says that all those millions of themepark MMORPG fans aren't MMO gamers. They aren't, because many of them would not touch the type of games that original MMORPGs were. What they play is something entirely different, hardly massive, and hardly multiplayer, with RPG mechanics taken out of a kids game. Logic implies that if two things are completely different, they aren't the same thing. And no, its not "sandbox vs themepark" as you were quick to jump to as a strawman, because not all old MMOs were sandbox games, or simulations of any kind. There's not much more to add to show the hilarious ridiculousness of such a statement. Do I sense some bitterness in your comments about the change of the MMORPG genre, feeling like a dinosaur where the meteor has already struck and the world is changing? Um, yes? Doesn't take a rocket scientist to figure out someone would be upset over their favorite genre of gaming ceasing to exist. I imagine you'd see a lot of angry FPS gamers if they suddenly stopped making FPS games And you yourself just admitted that the genre has changed enough to be considered "world changing". So quick you are to insult and poke fun, but when your favorite genre melts around you, I'll be here to say "Get with the times you stupid dinosaur lolololzfzfdfllolf rofl .
The fact that a lot of Star Wars fans didn't like SWG at all, as well as a lot of MMO gamers who gave it a try and grew bored of it quickly and added to that the mass exodus when MMORPG's as EQ2 and WoW hit the scene, says it all: SWG wasn't really the MMORPG they were looking for, let alone the Star Wars MMO Funny you should say that, considering it was the second most popular MMORPG at the time, as I said, but you conveniently ignored. People left for two reasons though. Bad ideas (the Jedi system) and the NGE, which has been covered to death. The massive exodus didn't happen until SoE killed their own game, and it certainly wasn't to EQ2, becuase EQ2 wasn't doing well either, most just stopped playing MMOs. .
You haven't proven anything with your comments, only that my statements were right as you as a sandbox lover showed with your comments and stance I'm actually not a sandbox MMO gamer, I played Dark Age of Camelot for 7 years, tried SWG 3 different times, and left for different reasons each time. So, again, your wide assumptions are off their mark. : SWG Pre-NGE was something for your type of MMO gamer, a sandbox/sim fan who doesn't like themepark MMO's at all There's a difference between games with some guidance, and MMOs that assume you have a mental disorder and can't even connect the dots (modern MMOs), and naturally for someone like you who passionately dislikes themepark MMO's in contrast to the millions of themepark MMO gamers, SW:TOR is not what you're looking for The worst thing is, SWTOR isn't even themepark, its damn near singleplayer in terms of the way its constructed, with linear instanced quests. It takes what I dislike, and pushes it even further, as every MMO since WoW has done, finding new ways to present interesting content in the least multiplayer way possible, and the most boring way possible..
As most may very well know i'm very interested in ToR, however i come from the days of EQ, (played 4 years of it until guild problems occured), if i'm interested in this game does that exclude me from being an MMO gamer? i don't think so. I also highly doubt i'm the only one. In fact a good majority of the MMO players that come from that time are still playing.
Second linear is exactly what BW is trying to avoid. They have said multiple times that your choices change how the story goes. Choose to help the person and finish the quest that way, or don't and finish the quest another way, any BW game will show you this. Sure in over all grand scheme of things it's complete quests to get xp to get gear to do higher quests to get higher gear. But then again this is how themepark games work.
I come from the era of EQ and trust me if it wasn't for the people that game wouldn't have been nearly as fun because it was grind grind grind all the time, killing various monsters to get more xp to hopefully get rare drops and at later levels get components so you could combine them and hopefully be success and get the spell you wanted. Only to start all over again.
Games had their qualities back then but they were nothing stellar. Try playing one back then and you'll relieze they weren't as great as you'd like them to be. It was down to the community back then, the game itself provided the backdrop for adventure. Now it's more forefront, does that make less of a community, maybe. Doesn't stop you from making one though and enjoying the great content they provide
Finally TOR is an MMO why? Well lets break it apart
Massively: BW has stated over and over again that the worlds are vastly open taking at least an hour to transverse from end to end in a straight line. Thats pushing forward and hitting the auto run button at 1pm and coming back at 2pm.
Multiplayer: as per the demo at pax there are other people in the world.
Online: yep it's online, you need a connection to the internet to play
Role playing: With the classes you most certainly play a role of some kind
Game: If anyone tries to dispute this is a game i'll do a /face palm for em.
So it fits the requirements, sorry
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
JTL was a paid expansion.
YOu keep trying to play it off as part of the original SWG experience during launch. It wasnt.
We understand you are unhappy with this game. Which begs the question....why are you even here?
The game hasnt launched, thus there is no "I told ya so, the game is SP"....or "the game blows".
There are no boxes sold, thus no one can cancel.....so there is no "This game didnt hold subs like I said".
There is no critics screaming "man the escape pods"....so there is no gloating over game being an epic fail.
We have heard it all......it is broken record syndrome.
There is currently a thread going about persons with your attitude. Rather than us talking about what this game is....it is always what this game isnt. It isnt about discussion, it is simply more bitching....akin to what we have heard the past 5 yrs due to the PRECioUs. While we are on the topic, you trying to justify this behavior due to there not being sandboxes produced is simply pathetic.
To make matters worse, comparisons to sandboxes(SWG) arent just done with rose colored glasses....they are slanted by incorrect information. Which in this thread would be you trying to present JTL as part of the original SWG launch day package.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
As most may very well know i'm very interested in ToR, however i come from the days of EQ, (played 4 years of it until guild problems occured), if i'm interested in this game does that exclude me from being an MMO gamer? i don't think so. I also highly doubt i'm the only one. In fact a good majority of the MMO players that come from that time are still playing.
Second linear is exactly what BW is trying to avoid. They have said multiple times that your choices change how the story goes. Choose to help the person and finish the quest that way, or don't and finish the quest another way, any BW game will show you this. Sure in over all grand scheme of things it's complete quests to get xp to get gear to do higher quests to get higher gear. But then again this is how themepark games work.
Bioware claims/does this in all their RPGs. You have morality choices that, at the end of the day, do very VERY little. The story is still linear, the outcome is either good, or evil. Bioware's been doing that for a long time. That's why they're considered the king of LINEAR RPGs. For open ended RPGs, that's Bethesda territory.
I come from the era of EQ and trust me if it wasn't for the people that game wouldn't have been nearly as fun because it was grind grind grind all the time, killing various monsters to get more xp to hopefully get rare drops and at later levels get components so you could combine them and hopefully be success and get the spell you wanted. Only to start all over again I wasn't a big fan of EQ for exactly that reason. The people are what made that game great, the game presented a dangerous world that encouraged people to work together. MMOs don't do that anymore, and thus, aren't nearly as social or as big as old MMOs. SWTOR is trying to remove all need for other players. .
Games had their qualities back then but they were nothing stellar. Try playing one back then and you'll relieze they weren't as great as you'd like them to be. It was down to the community back then, the game itself provided the backdrop for adventure. Clearly you didn't play games like Dark Age of Camelot, dive under Atlantis and perform Trials, or be involved in a 100 man Dragon raid, or gather 300 other players together to defend your relic keep with catapults trebuchets, balistas and boiling oil, and then persue the enemies in naval combat EQ game mechanics weren't that great in comparison because WoW offers what EQ did, without the social aspect. Other great MMOs, like DAoC, or Ultima Online, or SWG, had amazing gameplay mechanics that STILL haven't been topped. Now it's more forefront, does that make less of a community, maybe. Doesn't stop you from making one though and enjoying the great content they provide
Finally TOR is an MMO why? Well lets break it apart
Massively: BW has stated over and over again that the worlds are vastly open taking at least an hour to transverse from end to end in a straight line. Thats pushing forward and hitting the auto run button at 1pm and coming back at 2pm Massive does not refer to the world size. It refers to the multiplayer part. Massively multiplayer. A one hour big world isn't that impressive. Darkfall, made with 10 million dollars and 30 devs has a mainland that takes 8 hours to cross, that doesn't count the subcontinents. 300 million dollars and their "massive" worlds are one hour big? Ouch And there's nothing massive about going into an instance with 4 other people. Diablo was bigger than that and it wasn't even an MMO.
Multiplayer: as per the demo at pax there are other people in the world.
Online: yep it's online, you need a connection to the internet to play
Great, you have to connect to the internet before you go into an instance with your NPC companion and solo.
Role playing: With the classes you most certainly play a role of some kind
Game: If anyone tries to dispute this is a game i'll do a /face palm for em.
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
To make matters worse, comparisons to sandboxes(SWG) arent just done with rose colored glasses....they are slanted by incorrect information. Which in this thread would be you trying to present JTL as part of the original SWG launch day package.
I could claim that your comparisons and arguments are with rose colored glasses, as you usually ignore any bad reports about the game and pretend its going to be great despite any evidence to the contrary. And no, my glasses aren't rose colored. I remember EXACTLY what I liked and disliked about SWG.
had full space flight on a much smaller budget, this is just pathetic.
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
To make matters worse, comparisons to sandboxes(SWG) arent just done with rose colored glasses....they are slanted by incorrect information. Which in this thread would be you trying to present JTL as part of the original SWG launch day package.
I could claim that your comparisons and arguments are with rose colored glasses, as you usually ignore any bad reports about the game and pretend its going to be great despite any evidence to the contrary. And no, my glasses aren't rose colored. I remember EXACTLY what I liked and disliked about SWG.
So now we are editing quotes, to get rid of the part that renders your complaint moot? I will have to remember that tactic.
There has been NO cascade of reviews/whatever slamming this game. At least not from a reputable site.
There are some various individuals trying to mount a compaign, and attempting to bolster things like EA-Louse into life shattering events. This forum is evidence to that.
You stated in another post that you like a game that gives you a world like DF. Good, go play it. Or dont.
Whatever ya do, if you are going to come into this forum, at least talk in facts. Which the fact I pointed out was that JTL was a paid expansion, and yet you have bitched thru this thread due to BW not making a game, AND a paid expansion for launch.
THAT would be even ground with SWG being combined with JTL. Has nothing to do with production cost, and everything to do with customer cost.
SWG offered a broken game at launch, and no epic PVE experience. I have faith BW will. Their track record speaks for itself. Until such time as you can prove me wrong, at launch, trumpeting about SWG/JTL just rings hollow. Not only will we get a better gaming exp than SWG, but a space shooter to boot.
TOR is aiming to be fun.....not a sim. Ptity folks wont either get on board, or go to a game that caters to their style. Instead we keep seeing incorrect/slanted BS.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
As most may very well know i'm very interested in ToR, however i come from the days of EQ, (played 4 years of it until guild problems occured), if i'm interested in this game does that exclude me from being an MMO gamer? i don't think so. I also highly doubt i'm the only one. In fact a good majority of the MMO players that come from that time are still playing.
Second linear is exactly what BW is trying to avoid. They have said multiple times that your choices change how the story goes. Choose to help the person and finish the quest that way, or don't and finish the quest another way, any BW game will show you this. Sure in over all grand scheme of things it's complete quests to get xp to get gear to do higher quests to get higher gear. But then again this is how themepark games work.
Bioware claims/does this in all their RPGs. You have morality choices that, at the end of the day, do very VERY little. The story is still linear, the outcome is either good, or evil. Bioware's been doing that for a long time. That's why they're considered the king of LINEAR RPGs. For open ended RPGs, that's Bethesda territory.
Your targeting the end game/outcome, in any game the outcome comes down to just a few things. it's how the story ties up. It's the choices in the journey that make the character, what they are or are not willing to do. Take KoToR 2, your in a locked down space port. theres a mother with her 3 children, you happen to be in possession of the very thing they need to get off that planet. You could give it to them then optionally give them money so they don't have to struggle, or you could decieve them into thinking you'll give it to them if they give you the last bit of money they have then refuse when it comes time to give them the passport, or you can simply just blow em off and give it to the guy nearby that is willing to pay you double what would get form anyone else.
As for Bethesda, they make great games i won't stop you there. But at the end of the day (yes i took the line) its still very linear, you still have to stop the impending oblivion, you still have to follow the story to it's closure. You can look at linear any way you want. But using Bethesda doesn't make them open ended and BW's game linear. Both still reach the end and regardless of choices you still reach relatively the same conclusion.
I come from the era of EQ and trust me if it wasn't for the people that game wouldn't have been nearly as fun because it was grind grind grind all the time, killing various monsters to get more xp to hopefully get rare drops and at later levels get components so you could combine them and hopefully be success and get the spell you wanted. Only to start all over again I wasn't a big fan of EQ for exactly that reason. The people are what made that game great, the game presented a dangerous world that encouraged people to work together. MMOs don't do that anymore, and thus, aren't nearly as social or as big as old MMOs. SWTOR is trying to remove all need for other players. .
No proof they are trying to remove anything, they stated they are trying to bring the story back, you can still form a team of people, jump into the conversation, have you and your team mates make their decision and whichever way got the most votes is how the story goes (even if it's not what you wanted). They stated quite clearly that other players can affect your story, thats what happens when you play with other people.
I completely agree that MMO need people to interact to play, i disagree on the fact that the story is a hindering block to prevent that or even a hurdle. I'd go so far as to say this will probably encourage people to group to see how the story sways instead of being always in command.
Games had their qualities back then but they were nothing stellar. Try playing one back then and you'll relieze they weren't as great as you'd like them to be. It was down to the community back then, the game itself provided the backdrop for adventure. Clearly you didn't play games like Dark Age of Camelot, dive under Atlantis and perform Trials, or be involved in a 100 man Dragon raid, or gather 300 other players together to defend your relic keep with catapults trebuchets, balistas and boiling oil, and then persue the enemies in naval combat EQ game mechanics weren't that great in comparison because WoW offers what EQ did, without the social aspect. Other great MMOs, like DAoC, or Ultima Online, or SWG, had amazing gameplay mechanics that STILL haven't been topped. Now it's more forefront, does that make less of a community, maybe. Doesn't stop you from making one though and enjoying the great content they provide
No i didn't play DAOC back in it's hayday, but i did do things similar to that in EQ, it was called Kedge Keep. While i'm not sure what these trials are, that was an indepth underwater zone. Also was a pain to spell cast down there with the pushing and floating. Defending relics is a PVP things which i dont feel is relavent to this converstation, but after about 100 people you either lag to do death or it just becomes a mass of people. It's good for the game don't get me wrong but unless your trying to say the lack of PVP is hurting the game i don't see the relavence.
Finally i have actually played DAOC a little. the game is good but again nothing stellar that made me go whoa. Maybe i came in too late i dunno. Still doesn't mean this game can't be good in it's own right.
Finally TOR is an MMO why? Well lets break it apart
Massively: BW has stated over and over again that the worlds are vastly open taking at least an hour to transverse from end to end in a straight line. Thats pushing forward and hitting the auto run button at 1pm and coming back at 2pm Massive does not refer to the world size. It refers to the multiplayer part. Massively multiplayer. A one hour big world isn't that impressive. Darkfall, made with 10 million dollars and 30 devs has a mainland that takes 8 hours to cross, that doesn't count the subcontinents. 300 million dollars and their "massive" worlds are one hour big? Ouch And there's nothing massive about going into an instance with 4 other people. Diablo was bigger than that and it wasn't even an MMO.
Okay you got me here on the point of massively doesn't equal land mass, sorry, but it doesn't mean that the game will be singleplayer either or co-op, they have stated (numerous times) you'll be traveling around the world with other people completing quests and doing their own things. I'm not going to point it out for you because it's right out there and i like to let people do their own research before i start pointing them to it.
Okay your misunderstanding my words i said it takes one hour to transverse to one end of the world to the other (this is going around the entire surface of the planet once) this does not include doing things in that world. You can go underground or into higher up places.
Also this 300 M can i get an official source that isn't EALouse please. Blog post IMO don't count as cold hard facts.
Finally 4 people going into an instance is nothing new in games. Please stop acting like this is a negative.
Multiplayer: as per the demo at pax there are other people in the world.
Online: yep it's online, you need a connection to the internet to play
Great, you have to connect to the internet before you go into an instance with your NPC companion and solo.
Yes you have to connect to the internet, that means you have to go online to play. What you do with it is another matter. If all you want to do is go with your NPC companion and solo feel free. Just expect to miss out on some interesting things.
Role playing: With the classes you most certainly play a role of some kind
Game: If anyone tries to dispute this is a game i'll do a /face palm for em.
So it fits the requirements, sorry
Your trying to make this story idea seem like the only thing they are doing only problem is BW already beat you to the punch . It's not solo only (theres an option to solo), it's online and there will be other people. There will be quests and you can choose how you want it to work, will it be complex, i dunno but the choices are there, which a lot of MMOs don't already do. Personally i see that as a plus in addition to everything else. Not a hurdle or a blockade as you seem to see it as. If i'm mistaken on this front please clarify cause thats the way you are coming across to me.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Why are so many people so mad about this game. It isnt even out yet. I see both the defenders and qqers which u are always gonna have and they will never change there toon no matter what bioware says or we say.
qqers have to qq if they didnt they wouldnt know what to do with themselves. I for one will give boware a chance. EVery review of the demos and stories people played they loved.
One person at massively played the demo every day they could at pax. i think it was. The loved the smuggler story at the start they loved the game play. In face i have read numerous reviews of people who have gotten to play the demos. Which for tor was usually the starting experiance for One of the classes.
They all were raves. Tera is the only game who demod that got better reveiws. Look i know game designers do everythign to make sure the demos are smooth and people like them. that said One of the things massively pointed out was how good the graphics are and how much better they were at pax compared to e3.
So im gonna give bioware a chance. yes im optomistic. why i want this to succeed. If u want a sandbox game go find a asandbox game to play im sure eve online would love to have u . All those sandbox go anywhere space fans shoulld go play eve.
its exactly the game u want. Tor is following a diffrent model . I just am gonna give bioware a chancee to actually release the game and play it before i judge if its a bad game or a good game when i havent even had hands on with the game.
Why are so many people so mad about this game. It isnt even out yet. I see both the defenders and qqers which u are always gonna have and they will never change there toon no matter what bioware says or we say.
qqers have to qq if they didnt they wouldnt know what to do with themselves. I for one will give boware a chance. EVery review of the demos and stories people played they loved.
One person at massively played the demo every day they could at pax. i think it was. The loved the smuggler story at the start they loved the game play. In face i have read numerous reviews of people who have gotten to play the demos. Which for tor was usually the starting experiance for One of the classes.
They all were raves. Tera is the only game who demod that got better reveiws. Look i know game designers do everythign to make sure the demos are smooth and people like them. that said One of the things massively pointed out was how good the graphics are and how much better they were at pax compared to e3.
So im gonna give bioware a chance. yes im optomistic. why i want this to succeed. If u want a sandbox game go find a asandbox game to play im sure eve online would love to have u . All those sandbox go anywhere space fans shoulld go play eve.
its exactly the game u want. Tor is following a diffrent model . I just am gonna give bioware a chancee to actually release the game and play it before i judge if its a bad game or a good game when i havent even had hands on with the game.
You sound like your speaking from my mind here, exactly my thoughts. I loved the demo that i got to play. (course i'm partial being a fan) but the art style for some reason fit and it didn't feel weird at all. I'm really hoping this game will be good because then more companies will allow for branching story arcs in their games. This is the feature i really hope new companies pick up on.
I really hate having an illusion of some kind of choice in my game. It's usually either i have to help this guy or i lose out on the xp and rewards. I like more choice and this game seems to be offering it.
Heck i may even try out GW2 if all the claims they are making are true.But we won't know anything factual about these games until we see the game itself. Good thing for me i have New vegas and Fable 3 to keep me occupied until they bring it out.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Lucasarts has become more of a publisher now. Handing out the star wars license every now and then to a few studios while they work on other non-related games. But The whole "rail shooter" is because there was the same kind of thing in the KOTOR games. Remember, this is a Knights of the Old Republic game first and doesn't have much to do with the original storyline of the movies.
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Lucas Arts was also responsible for the Rogue Squadron games, which were fucking awesome space "tunnel" shooters. If what Bioware has planned is like that, then I'm sold.
As for the rest of the nonsense in this thread...swg space "content" was boring as hell and almot non-existent. It was fun for a bit but ultimately pointless. WRT people citing this EA Louse guy like he's some sort of prophet, let me provide you with a quote from the divine one himself:
"ealouse says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Huh? I never took my own life. I did lose my job today though.
If anyone has any questions regarding Warhammer I will be more than happy to answer them… However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR, except that it will fail."
See that part in bold..."However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR...". So basically, he was just talking out of his ass when it came to TOR, just like a lot of people are doing now.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Lucas Arts was also responsible for the Rogue Squadron games, which were fucking awesome space "tunnel" shooters. If what Bioware has planned is like that, then I'm sold.
As for the rest of the nonsense in this thread...swg space "content" was boring as hell and almot non-existent. It was fun for a bit but ultimately pointless. WRT people citing this EA Louse guy like he's some sort of prophet, let me provide you with a quote from the divine one himself:
"ealouse says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Huh? I never took my own life. I did lose my job today though.
If anyone has any questions regarding Warhammer I will be more than happy to answer them… However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR, except that it will fail."
See that part in bold..."However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR...". So basically, he was just talking out of his ass when it came to TOR, just like a lot of people are doing now.
hate to play devil's advocate here, but the rogue squadron games were not rail shooters. I remember when I played those I would flying around each level for a very long time exploring. Maybe events happened in a linear manner, but the game was not "on rails". And louse is an Idiot who should have never gone into the game industry in the first place because he obviously has no idea how anything is supposed to work. Either that or he's stuck in some fairytale land where creativity is more important that the bottom line. My professors can back me up on that.
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Lucas Arts was also responsible for the Rogue Squadron games, which were fucking awesome space "tunnel" shooters. If what Bioware has planned is like that, then I'm sold.
As for the rest of the nonsense in this thread...swg space "content" was boring as hell and almot non-existent. It was fun for a bit but ultimately pointless. WRT people citing this EA Louse guy like he's some sort of prophet, let me provide you with a quote from the divine one himself:
"ealouse says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Huh? I never took my own life. I did lose my job today though.
If anyone has any questions regarding Warhammer I will be more than happy to answer them… However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR, except that it will fail."
See that part in bold..."However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR...". So basically, he was just talking out of his ass when it came to TOR, just like a lot of people are doing now.
hate to play devil's advocate here, but the rogue squadron games were not rail shooters. I remember when I played those I would flying around each level for a very long time exploring. Maybe events happened in a linear manner, but the game was not "on rails". And louse is an Idiot who should have never gone into the game industry in the first place because he obviously has no idea how anything is supposed to work. Either that or he's stuck in some fairytale land where creativity is more important that the bottom line. My professors can back me up on that.
Rogue Squadron was not a rail shooter, at all. Your ship constantly moved forward because thats what ships DO. You could turn in any direction and control everything about the ship though, you just couldn't hover.
As for Louse, how is he an idiot? The people running the show had no game experience at all. They were pushing forward bad design decisions without listening to any input from people who actually understood the games. Yeah, clearly HE doesn't know what he's doing, and the higher ups do, that's why Warhammer was so great right! His claims have been backed up by other Mythic employees.
As for this game, its been said many times it won't do well. People have crunched the numbers, with the amount of money spent on this project, it would have to start an online REVOLUTION to be financially successful. 300 mil, do you know what that MEANS?
Isn't LucasArts responsible for the X-Wing game? Also X-Wing versus Tie Fighter? What happened? How did LucasArts go from amazing 3d space shooter to tube/tunnel rail minigame?
It would be like BioWare putting out a game that had no story in it.
Lucas Arts was also responsible for the Rogue Squadron games, which were fucking awesome space "tunnel" shooters. If what Bioware has planned is like that, then I'm sold.
As for the rest of the nonsense in this thread...swg space "content" was boring as hell and almot non-existent. It was fun for a bit but ultimately pointless. WRT people citing this EA Louse guy like he's some sort of prophet, let me provide you with a quote from the divine one himself:
"ealouse says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Huh? I never took my own life. I did lose my job today though.
If anyone has any questions regarding Warhammer I will be more than happy to answer them… However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR, except that it will fail."
See that part in bold..."However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR...". So basically, he was just talking out of his ass when it came to TOR, just like a lot of people are doing now.
hate to play devil's advocate here, but the rogue squadron games were not rail shooters. I remember when I played those I would flying around each level for a very long time exploring. Maybe events happened in a linear manner, but the game was not "on rails". And louse is an Idiot who should have never gone into the game industry in the first place because he obviously has no idea how anything is supposed to work. Either that or he's stuck in some fairytale land where creativity is more important that the bottom line. My professors can back me up on that.
Rogue Squadron was not a rail shooter, at all. Your ship constantly moved forward because thats what ships DO. You could turn in any direction and control everything about the ship though, you just couldn't hover.
As for Louse, how is he an idiot? The people running the show had no game experience at all. They were pushing forward bad design decisions without listening to any input from people who actually understood the games. Yeah, clearly HE doesn't know what he's doing, and the higher ups do, that's why Warhammer was so great right! His claims have been backed up by other Mythic employees.
As for this game, its been said many times it won't do well. People have crunched the numbers, with the amount of money spent on this project, it would have to start an online REVOLUTION to be financially successful. 300 mil, do you know what that MEANS?
First paragraph. Yeah, that's what I said.
Second paragraph. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he was doing. Maybe he had the best ideas in the world. But he wasn't at the top and can't have expected any of his ideas to be implemented. Someone who thinks that removing their personal dancing emotes from a game where the universe certainly would not be suited for such is not "destroying creativity". It's called art direction and there's a whole SECTION to every team that makes sure everything's going right with the art design; from animations down to textures. It's a Warhammer game. Whether or not they look enough liberties with the gameplay is no excuse for shitty direction in other fields. And you mean other disgruntled mythic employees? Might as well be listening to Fox news. That's fair and balanced all right. Louse is a disgruntled employee who had his expectations way up in the clouds about what the game industry would be like and then fell flat when it wasn't what he expected and got fired. All my professors who have all worked in the game industry for a very long time agree with me.
Third paragraph. I'm not talking about how successful the game will be. I'm talking about rail shooter minigames. Don't go off topic here. I don't care if it's going to be successful or not.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Comments
i like to dick around in space and explore thats the the main point of any mmo for me, the arcade style tunnel shooter sounds like no fun at all and its just a cheap single player add on to what should be a great mmo.
the tunnel shooter crap is just a very poor idea by some immature kid and id have gladly waited for it to come in a addon and be more thought about instead of a cheap ass flash like game
Playing: FFXIV
Future: wishing for SWG 2, World of Warcraft Classic
Played: Most current and extinct MMO's - 18 Years in....
Interesting Fact - I own 27 Tarantula's
It still does mate and It's been largely untouched by SoE too. However...it's EMPTY! People won't pay to play a free roam space game. If they did, SWG would be doing much better. If the SWG space experience is what you're after, the game is still going.
That's great! A game like that already exists. Star Wars Galaxies. I assume you're playing it now?!
Yawn. SWG again. Who was saying in another thread again that 'SWG' wasn't used as an argument by people that tried to pose nonsensical arguments in their criticism of SW:TOR? Quotes like this say enough.
I think that millions of MMORPG gamers who play in themepark MMO's like WoW, LotrO, etc prove you otherwise, saying that only sandbox lovers and sim fans are MMORPG lovers, excluding themepark MMO fans. As was expected, your kind of thinking says that all those millions of themepark MMORPG fans aren't MMO gamers. There's not much more to add to show the hilarious ridiculousness of such a statement. Do I sense some bitterness in your comments about the change of the MMORPG genre, feeling like a dinosaur where the meteor has already struck and the world is changing?
The fact that a lot of Star Wars fans didn't like SWG at all, as well as a lot of MMO gamers who gave it a try and grew bored of it quickly and added to that the mass exodus when MMORPG's as EQ2 and WoW hit the scene, says it all: SWG wasn't really the MMORPG they were looking for, let alone the Star Wars MMO.
You haven't proven anything with your comments, only that my statements were right as you as a sandbox lover showed with your comments and stance: SWG Pre-NGE was something for your type of MMO gamer, a sandbox/sim fan who doesn't like themepark MMO's at all, and naturally for someone like you who passionately dislikes themepark MMO's in contrast to the millions of themepark MMO gamers, SW:TOR is not what you're looking for.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Of course it's going to come up, just as I'm sure WoW will come up whenever WoW2 is made, and just like EQ came up during EQ2's development. SWG is the only other "Star Wars" MMO to compare it against mate.
Comparisons simply because of the main theme (Star Wars) are inevitable and should be expected. That doesn't mean you can discount every opinion/desire simply because someone brings up one failed Star Wars game or uses SWG as an example of a feature they'd like to see in SW:ToR.
With all respect, but you know as well as I that it isn't the fact that SWG comes up what it's about, but how SWG comes up in the arguments of those strongly opposed against SW:TOR, as in the comments of this sandbox/sim fan guy who tries to say that all MMORPG's with WoW and afterwards aren't really MMORPG's and neither is SW:TOR, that the MMORPG genre thus has become a dying genre, and that themepark MMO gamers aren't real MMORPG gamers or MMO fans.
It's this kind of warped argumentation that you keep seeing back in the posts of the staunchest SW:TOR opponents, most of those are SWG pre-NGE vets or sandbox/sim fans.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
I like exploring to when it can be rewarding.
Just transversing a void? That's not fun for anyone or we'd have done it already in the really reals world.
Hopefully this has already been mentioned but:
Rebel Assault and Rebel Assault II
Both tunnel shooters from roughly the same era.
So, Lucasarts did both. Plus this is Bioware who did a turret shooter in Kotor.
What exactly is your point?
Free roaming space game would nice. Very nice. But would add a layer of complexity to the game that I don't think Bioware wants to tackle... yet.
As with everything else SWTOR, we shall just have to wait and see. Maybe it will be a fun mini-game... yeah, it would be novel but who knows.
Im sorry but if u want galaxies go play it its still around. Its not like galaxies died a painful death its still going. Oh and how can warhammer be a failure of epic proportions? last i looked warhammer still exists as a game its not like apb.
I dont understand most of louse's logic. U cant call a game a complete failure when it still is running to this day while games like apb crash in burn in less then 6 months. I also dont really care if space combat was part of tor. Its not really a huge part of the books or movies. Most of star wars combat is on the ground.
Especially with jedi. Jedi sith dont fight there battles in space ships they fight them on space stations, on planets and other areas like that. All wars end up on the ground as well as u have to control planets u cant do that from space.
If u are gonna kill tor based on some fired employee with a grudge and gonna kill it based on the rail shooter. then it was never the game for u. go play gw 2 and when it fails to be the do all end all game everyone expects it to be come try tor.
For the record most of space will be instanced sorta like traveling from continent to continent in wow but the planets wont be. Bioware has stated at least 100 times maybe more that the planets are nice open areas where u will run into others. There is group play but not forced group play. There will be dungeons and most likely some sorta raid enviroment. There will also be pvp
Sure pvp on anything other then a pvp server will in all likelyhood be instanced like wow. But last i looked wow has 12 mil subs eve has maybe 500 k. Also lotro and ddo now that they are free 2 play has oave 1 mil player base as well.
Look im not a guy who wants to make up content i want the game to give me that. To give me quests and objectives to give me a great story i can enjoy and play over and over as diffrent classes.
This game is gonna have loads of content to play. the game play looks pretty good from what ive read. And th demos the people payed at the game conventions was actualy starting area of the game. they got to go in play there class and get a godo feel for it.
So far all i hear is good things about tor. Im not gonna lt a few qqers about space on rails and some ex employee with a grudge dissuade me from tryign this game out myself.
People aren't touching it because SoE broke the game. The space flight is one of the only redeemable qualities about SWG now. If you seriously don't know that I'm concerned, new to MMOs or something?
Jump to Lightspeed is one of the most critically acclaimed MMO expansions TO DATE. It won awards when it came out. And Eve is proof people like open ended space games. It's currently one of the most successful MMOs on the market.
As most may very well know i'm very interested in ToR, however i come from the days of EQ, (played 4 years of it until guild problems occured), if i'm interested in this game does that exclude me from being an MMO gamer? i don't think so. I also highly doubt i'm the only one. In fact a good majority of the MMO players that come from that time are still playing.
Second linear is exactly what BW is trying to avoid. They have said multiple times that your choices change how the story goes. Choose to help the person and finish the quest that way, or don't and finish the quest another way, any BW game will show you this. Sure in over all grand scheme of things it's complete quests to get xp to get gear to do higher quests to get higher gear. But then again this is how themepark games work.
I come from the era of EQ and trust me if it wasn't for the people that game wouldn't have been nearly as fun because it was grind grind grind all the time, killing various monsters to get more xp to hopefully get rare drops and at later levels get components so you could combine them and hopefully be success and get the spell you wanted. Only to start all over again.
Games had their qualities back then but they were nothing stellar. Try playing one back then and you'll relieze they weren't as great as you'd like them to be. It was down to the community back then, the game itself provided the backdrop for adventure. Now it's more forefront, does that make less of a community, maybe. Doesn't stop you from making one though and enjoying the great content they provide
Finally TOR is an MMO why? Well lets break it apart
Massively: BW has stated over and over again that the worlds are vastly open taking at least an hour to transverse from end to end in a straight line. Thats pushing forward and hitting the auto run button at 1pm and coming back at 2pm.
Multiplayer: as per the demo at pax there are other people in the world.
Online: yep it's online, you need a connection to the internet to play
Role playing: With the classes you most certainly play a role of some kind
Game: If anyone tries to dispute this is a game i'll do a /face palm for em.
So it fits the requirements, sorry
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
JTL was a paid expansion.
YOu keep trying to play it off as part of the original SWG experience during launch. It wasnt.
We understand you are unhappy with this game. Which begs the question....why are you even here?
The game hasnt launched, thus there is no "I told ya so, the game is SP"....or "the game blows".
There are no boxes sold, thus no one can cancel.....so there is no "This game didnt hold subs like I said".
There is no critics screaming "man the escape pods"....so there is no gloating over game being an epic fail.
We have heard it all......it is broken record syndrome.
There is currently a thread going about persons with your attitude. Rather than us talking about what this game is....it is always what this game isnt. It isnt about discussion, it is simply more bitching....akin to what we have heard the past 5 yrs due to the PRECioUs. While we are on the topic, you trying to justify this behavior due to there not being sandboxes produced is simply pathetic.
To make matters worse, comparisons to sandboxes(SWG) arent just done with rose colored glasses....they are slanted by incorrect information. Which in this thread would be you trying to present JTL as part of the original SWG launch day package.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
I could claim that your comparisons and arguments are with rose colored glasses, as you usually ignore any bad reports about the game and pretend its going to be great despite any evidence to the contrary. And no, my glasses aren't rose colored. I remember EXACTLY what I liked and disliked about SWG.
So now we are editing quotes, to get rid of the part that renders your complaint moot? I will have to remember that tactic.
There has been NO cascade of reviews/whatever slamming this game. At least not from a reputable site.
There are some various individuals trying to mount a compaign, and attempting to bolster things like EA-Louse into life shattering events. This forum is evidence to that.
You stated in another post that you like a game that gives you a world like DF. Good, go play it. Or dont.
Whatever ya do, if you are going to come into this forum, at least talk in facts. Which the fact I pointed out was that JTL was a paid expansion, and yet you have bitched thru this thread due to BW not making a game, AND a paid expansion for launch.
THAT would be even ground with SWG being combined with JTL. Has nothing to do with production cost, and everything to do with customer cost.
SWG offered a broken game at launch, and no epic PVE experience. I have faith BW will. Their track record speaks for itself. Until such time as you can prove me wrong, at launch, trumpeting about SWG/JTL just rings hollow. Not only will we get a better gaming exp than SWG, but a space shooter to boot.
TOR is aiming to be fun.....not a sim. Ptity folks wont either get on board, or go to a game that caters to their style. Instead we keep seeing incorrect/slanted BS.
Asking Devs to make AAA sandbox titles is like trying to get fine dining on a McDonalds dollar menu budget.
Your trying to make this story idea seem like the only thing they are doing only problem is BW already beat you to the punch . It's not solo only (theres an option to solo), it's online and there will be other people. There will be quests and you can choose how you want it to work, will it be complex, i dunno but the choices are there, which a lot of MMOs don't already do. Personally i see that as a plus in addition to everything else. Not a hurdle or a blockade as you seem to see it as. If i'm mistaken on this front please clarify cause thats the way you are coming across to me.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Why are so many people so mad about this game. It isnt even out yet. I see both the defenders and qqers which u are always gonna have and they will never change there toon no matter what bioware says or we say.
qqers have to qq if they didnt they wouldnt know what to do with themselves. I for one will give boware a chance. EVery review of the demos and stories people played they loved.
One person at massively played the demo every day they could at pax. i think it was. The loved the smuggler story at the start they loved the game play. In face i have read numerous reviews of people who have gotten to play the demos. Which for tor was usually the starting experiance for One of the classes.
They all were raves. Tera is the only game who demod that got better reveiws. Look i know game designers do everythign to make sure the demos are smooth and people like them. that said One of the things massively pointed out was how good the graphics are and how much better they were at pax compared to e3.
So im gonna give bioware a chance. yes im optomistic. why i want this to succeed. If u want a sandbox game go find a asandbox game to play im sure eve online would love to have u . All those sandbox go anywhere space fans shoulld go play eve.
its exactly the game u want. Tor is following a diffrent model . I just am gonna give bioware a chancee to actually release the game and play it before i judge if its a bad game or a good game when i havent even had hands on with the game.
You sound like your speaking from my mind here, exactly my thoughts. I loved the demo that i got to play. (course i'm partial being a fan) but the art style for some reason fit and it didn't feel weird at all. I'm really hoping this game will be good because then more companies will allow for branching story arcs in their games. This is the feature i really hope new companies pick up on.
I really hate having an illusion of some kind of choice in my game. It's usually either i have to help this guy or i lose out on the xp and rewards. I like more choice and this game seems to be offering it.
Heck i may even try out GW2 if all the claims they are making are true.But we won't know anything factual about these games until we see the game itself. Good thing for me i have New vegas and Fable 3 to keep me occupied until they bring it out.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Lucasarts has become more of a publisher now. Handing out the star wars license every now and then to a few studios while they work on other non-related games. But The whole "rail shooter" is because there was the same kind of thing in the KOTOR games. Remember, this is a Knights of the Old Republic game first and doesn't have much to do with the original storyline of the movies.
Lucas Arts was also responsible for the Rogue Squadron games, which were fucking awesome space "tunnel" shooters. If what Bioware has planned is like that, then I'm sold.
As for the rest of the nonsense in this thread...swg space "content" was boring as hell and almot non-existent. It was fun for a bit but ultimately pointless. WRT people citing this EA Louse guy like he's some sort of prophet, let me provide you with a quote from the divine one himself:
"ealouse says:
October 13, 2010 at 11:15 pm
Huh? I never took my own life. I did lose my job today though.
If anyone has any questions regarding Warhammer I will be more than happy to answer them… However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR, except that it will fail."
http://ealouse.wordpress.com/2010/10/12/hello-world/#comment-790
See that part in bold..."However, I honestly do not know anything about TOR...". So basically, he was just talking out of his ass when it came to TOR, just like a lot of people are doing now.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
hate to play devil's advocate here, but the rogue squadron games were not rail shooters. I remember when I played those I would flying around each level for a very long time exploring. Maybe events happened in a linear manner, but the game was not "on rails". And louse is an Idiot who should have never gone into the game industry in the first place because he obviously has no idea how anything is supposed to work. Either that or he's stuck in some fairytale land where creativity is more important that the bottom line. My professors can back me up on that.
Rogue Squadron was not a rail shooter, at all. Your ship constantly moved forward because thats what ships DO. You could turn in any direction and control everything about the ship though, you just couldn't hover.
As for Louse, how is he an idiot? The people running the show had no game experience at all. They were pushing forward bad design decisions without listening to any input from people who actually understood the games. Yeah, clearly HE doesn't know what he's doing, and the higher ups do, that's why Warhammer was so great right! His claims have been backed up by other Mythic employees.
As for this game, its been said many times it won't do well. People have crunched the numbers, with the amount of money spent on this project, it would have to start an online REVOLUTION to be financially successful. 300 mil, do you know what that MEANS?
First paragraph. Yeah, that's what I said.
Second paragraph. I'm not saying he doesn't know what he was doing. Maybe he had the best ideas in the world. But he wasn't at the top and can't have expected any of his ideas to be implemented. Someone who thinks that removing their personal dancing emotes from a game where the universe certainly would not be suited for such is not "destroying creativity". It's called art direction and there's a whole SECTION to every team that makes sure everything's going right with the art design; from animations down to textures. It's a Warhammer game. Whether or not they look enough liberties with the gameplay is no excuse for shitty direction in other fields. And you mean other disgruntled mythic employees? Might as well be listening to Fox news. That's fair and balanced all right. Louse is a disgruntled employee who had his expectations way up in the clouds about what the game industry would be like and then fell flat when it wasn't what he expected and got fired. All my professors who have all worked in the game industry for a very long time agree with me.
Third paragraph. I'm not talking about how successful the game will be. I'm talking about rail shooter minigames. Don't go off topic here. I don't care if it's going to be successful or not.
Now i've only done some simple number crunching but 300M is not that hard for a company to make back up
Assuming of course they spent 300M. I haven't looked to confirm this so if you have a source that be great.
But going with the 300M charge they got.
If the box sales go for 50 dollars each and 1 Mill people buy it.
thats 50M right there.
then you add in the 14.99 sub fee.
They could make up their cost in about 2 years.
Quicker or longer depending on how they do. Yeah that seems like a long time and it could fail horribly. But thats working on 1/12 the sub numbers WoW has, which if done right is easily possible. It's a high cost but not impossible to reach, and it really wouldn't require a gaming revolution to achieve either.
PS. my numbers were closer to 16.6 months but i rounded up for maintance cost and other things that aren't part of the base cost.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.