Those comments were uncalled for and made those of us who wanted a more advanced Space system feel like BioWare as a company was mocking us...That's not exactly a smart move...Pissing off Customers BEFORE they pay...
I have to agree on this point 100%. I hope the management team hammered his ass for what he did and hell I hope they canned his ass. Also if the game fails or doesn't sell as it "might" have sold because this dumb ass didn't put some thought into what he said before doing so, I hope the legal team puts his dumb ass in the poor house or at least makes him bleed a little money back to the company.
This is a prime example of making something out of nothing for sensationalism and nothing more IMO.
I get it you're not happy about their direction with space, getting angry over some jokes due to that, is a tad excessive. Lets look at this this way, if you're wanting a sandbox, or free-form game, I doubt they're trying to get your business to begin with.
Who said anything about a sandbox? Nice over-generalization...And I'm about 100% sure Lucas/Bioware IS looking for My business...In fact if they don't get folks like us, folks who play MMO's, LOVE Star Wars, and were recruiting the day the Game was announced, then this game has NO chance...
The fact is there are Space Sims out there, Space Sims that have the Lucas Arts/Star Wars name on them, that are FAR more advanced than any rail shooter can be...I agree with those who say it's not a game-breaker, because it's not...But if you're going to do it don't half-ass it like this...This Game is supposed to be the be-all-end-all...A rail shooter does not exactly keep within that vein...And lastly if you're not going to do it, don't mock your Fans and make them feel their opinion is stupid...That was a major marketing misstep I can promise you that...The guy went from just another Dev to everyone in My Guild knowing his name and pretty much disliking him with a couple stupid comments...He should have apologized...Now he'll be at the forefront if things go bad with this game I promise you that much...MMO Gamers don't forget a thing...That's an understatement...Just look at the Star Wars history in this area...
The "jokes" if you want to call them that...I did not catch the humor at all and I'm hilarious......Those were not jokes, they were insults brought out by frustration when he knew he had a fanboi crowd...I'd like to see him say something like that in front of a more neutral crowd and see how it goes down...He'd get boo'd off the stage...
Star Wars isn't about space. I could go into more detail than that, but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.
Star Wars isn't about grinding mobs.
Star Wars isn't about gearing up.
Star Wars isn't about tradeskilling.
Star Wars isn't about progressing through levels.
Star Wars isn't about a lot of things that MMORPGs ARE about.
Should they remove all these pieces because Star Wars wasn't "about" them?
Or, maybe they should add parts that make it more of an MMORPG and less of a rail shooter.
Considering the massive amount of MMORPG content in this game, the rail shooter really seems insignificant to me... it's a cute lil' mini game. Certainly nothing worth getting upset over.
Judging by the arguments from both sides I think Bioware's best bet would be to remove the space components altogether. The defensive crowd clearly don't care for the space stuff at all and the ones on the offense are nothing but disappointed by it... so what's the point? Bioware should either do it properly or not do it at all; they shouldn't make some lame attempt to appease a certain crowd and end up disappointing everyone...
It was the same in LOTRO... Turbine decided to implement housing but they did a botched and extremely half arsed job that never saw any more attention. They did it just to say that it was there but it only served to entirely disappoint the people who wanted it. They would have been better off not putting it in at all.
Considering the massive amount of MMORPG content in this game, the rail shooter really seems insignificant to me... it's a cute lil' mini game. Certainly nothing worth getting upset over.
I am all for the rest of this game. And I'm going to buy the hell out of it. I just think it's silly to toss aside a better space system because the movies weren't like that or whatever that guy was saying.
Yeah Cold thats my opinion as well, i could have done with a nice cinematic instead of actually fighting and gotten nearly the same effect. Oh well go with what you got. Who knows maybe the tunnel shooter will be fun at least for a little while. Just to throw a curve in the game play to break away from the feel of ground combat just long enough to make it feel fresh again.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Yeah Cold thats my opinion as well, i could have done with a nice cinematic instead of actually fighting and gotten nearly the same effect. Oh well go with what you got. Who knows maybe the tunnel shooter will be fun at least for a little while. Just to throw a curve in the game play to break away from the feel of ground combat just long enough to make it feel fresh again.
You're both operating under the opinion that the presence of the "rail game" precludes a dog fighting game, or a more free form flying game to be added later. There's no logical basis for that assumption.
Judging by the arguments from both sides I think Bioware's best bet would be to remove the space components altogether. The defensive crowd clearly don't care for the space stuff at all and the ones on the offense are nothing but disappointed by it... so what's the point? Bioware should either do it properly or not do it at all; they shouldn't make some lame attempt to appease a certain crowd and end up disappointing everyone...
That's of the essence thing is it seems they thought they made it properly.
Now regarding all the feedback, you can guess if they were still that much confident about the space shooter they would have unveiled much more than the very short video clip. The reality check says otherwise.
I would agree with the fact that they disappointed the space sim fans and won't win the other ones., All in all a big mistake. This is a bad decision especially as you have almost the same game play in CWA, for free, mostly.
The only "good" reason to explain this choice is LA has a contract with another studio do publish a real 3D space sim, be it in BattleFront online that's paused or the supposedly space sim in development.
This is a prime example of making something out of nothing for sensationalism and nothing more IMO.
I get it you're not happy about their direction with space, getting angry over some jokes due to that, is a tad excessive. Lets look at this this way, if you're wanting a sandbox, or free-form game, I doubt they're trying to get your business to begin with.
Who said anything about a sandbox? Nice over-generalization...And I'm about 100% sure Lucas/Bioware IS looking for My business...In fact if they don't get folks like us, folks who play MMO's, LOVE Star Wars, and were recruiting the day the Game was announced, then this game has NO chance...
The fact is there are Space Sims out there, Space Sims that have the Lucas Arts/Star Wars name on them, that are FAR more advanced than any rail shooter can be...I agree with those who say it's not a game-breaker, because it's not...But if you're going to do it don't half-ass it like this...This Game is supposed to be the be-all-end-all...A rail shooter does not exactly keep within that vein...And lastly if you're not going to do it, don't mock your Fans and make them feel their opinion is stupid...That was a major marketing misstep I can promise you that...The guy went from just another Dev to everyone in My Guild knowing his name and pretty much disliking him with a couple stupid comments...He should have apologized...Now he'll be at the forefront if things go bad with this game I promise you that much...MMO Gamers don't forget a thing...That's an understatement...Just look at the Star Wars history in this area...
The "jokes" if you want to call them that...I did not catch the humor at all and I'm hilarious......Those were not jokes, they were insults brought out by frustration when he knew he had a fanboi crowd...I'd like to see him say something like that in front of a more neutral crowd and see how it goes down...He'd get boo'd off the stage...
I didn't just say sandbox, I also included free-form. Which is basically the opposite of what they are delivering especially in regard to space. This is how they describe themselves when asked are they themepark or sandbox: " we're creating a guided experience first and foremost". How was that an over-generalzation? This is another example of making something from nothing.
Space sims with star wars in the name died off long ago, the space sim genre largely died off around the same time. How many are released a year now or even every few years? Yeah, not many...
Sims if anything have become a product catered to super casuals who like growing crops, driving trucks or watching people do the things people do. Military sims all but gone, space sims the same, etc....
As for Erickson, sorry but please explain how these words are an insult:
"Why did you go with a tunnel shooter?" "Remember that time Han and Chewie were just out dicking around in space? Yeah, we didn't see it either."
It may have been a playful knock sure, but saying it's a blatant insult either says you're very sensitive or your exaggerating IMO.
He then went on to explain the decision and how they viewed space combat in the movies, which IMO basically summed up what we saw in the movies. Now to me all this was, was stage presense, and nothing more. Which requires a connection to the audience, the best way to achieve that is laughter and he succeeded in that.
What I find funny is I basically made a factual observation of the direction of this game and why some may not like it (a different preference) and you accuse me of over-generalizing. Yet here you are saying who was in an audience out of possible hundreds, they were all fanbois? hmmm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Yeah Cold thats my opinion as well, i could have done with a nice cinematic instead of actually fighting and gotten nearly the same effect. Oh well go with what you got. Who knows maybe the tunnel shooter will be fun at least for a little while. Just to throw a curve in the game play to break away from the feel of ground combat just long enough to make it feel fresh again.
You're both operating under the opinion that the presence of the "rail game" precludes a dog fighting game, or a more free form flying game to be added later. There's no logical basis for that assumption.
There is no logical basis that it will include those things either. We are basing our assumptions on what they've told us. Which is far more logical than what you propose we do.
Yeah Cold thats my opinion as well, i could have done with a nice cinematic instead of actually fighting and gotten nearly the same effect. Oh well go with what you got. Who knows maybe the tunnel shooter will be fun at least for a little while. Just to throw a curve in the game play to break away from the feel of ground combat just long enough to make it feel fresh again.
You're both operating under the opinion that the presence of the "rail game" precludes a dog fighting game, or a more free form flying game to be added later. There's no logical basis for that assumption.
There is no logical basis that it will include those things either. We are basing our assumptions on what they've told us. Which is far more logical than what you propose we do.
The logical assumption would be that there may or may not be dog fighting or free form fighting. Logic would tell you that you do not know either way.
Look i think what most people who say u dont need free for all or sandbox space are because we never expected space to begin with as anythign other then a means to get from planet to planet.
Look if it had a free form space combat it wouldnt bother me but a rail shooter tunnel shooter at the start doesnt bother me iether. Im much more interested in playing a jedi sith then a fighter pilot anyways. I see no reason why they cant add a free form space combat in the future. Will they probably not but u can always hope,
I for one will give it a try no matter what. I think my biggest argument is that just because its a thempark , rail shooter game doesnt mean it will fail or be an epic fail which most of the free form space combat sandbox game people say.
I dont go on a rant about how if they really liked that theyd play ever online or galaxies which is still around. No matter what the nge may or may not have done u can still play galaxies.
I just said this was never gonna be that. Sandbox games have become a niche game. They just dont do as well as themepark mmos. its not to put down sandbox games its just the reality.
Who cares if the space is on rails or not. Most people outside of these forums wont. They promised there would be a ton of stuff to do in this game. This happens to be one of them and appears to be like a mini game. I have a feeling they will have a lot of mini games which is better then no mini games. The more different things to do, the better. If you had your hopes on a space ship exploration game thinking this should have been Star Trek or something then go play another game.
Star Wars isn't about space. I could go into more detail than that, but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.
Star Wars isn't about grinding mobs.
Star Wars isn't about gearing up.
Star Wars isn't about tradeskilling.
Star Wars isn't about progressing through levels.
Star Wars isn't about a lot of things that MMORPGs ARE about.
Should they remove all these pieces because Star Wars wasn't "about" them?
Or, maybe they should add parts that make it more of an MMORPG and less of a rail shooter.
Considering the massive amount of MMORPG content in this game, the rail shooter really seems insignificant to me... it's a cute lil' mini game. Certainly nothing worth getting upset over.
In that case, you're in the unrepresentative minority when it comes to most people's reaction to the rail shooter.
Star Wars isn't about space. I could go into more detail than that, but I feel like I'd be wasting my time.
Star Wars isn't about grinding mobs.
Star Wars isn't about gearing up.
Star Wars isn't about tradeskilling.
Star Wars isn't about progressing through levels.
Star Wars isn't about a lot of things that MMORPGs ARE about.
Should they remove all these pieces because Star Wars wasn't "about" them?
Or, maybe they should add parts that make it more of an MMORPG and less of a rail shooter.
Considering the massive amount of MMORPG content in this game, the rail shooter really seems insignificant to me... it's a cute lil' mini game. Certainly nothing worth getting upset over.
In that case, you're in the unrepresentative minority when it comes to most people's reaction to the rail shooter.
Actually, I think your will end up to be the minority as these forums do not represent the average player out there. If it did, then there never would have been a successful game called WOW. Most people I talk to in my guilds in the other games don't give a crap about the bonus of a space mini game on rails when they weren't expecting this to be a Star Trek exploration space game to begin with. Also, we really have no idea what the final product will entail both on the planets or above the planets.
They included a space mini-game as well. Sweet this game is going to be awesome.
I hear the collectors edition comes with old SWG vets broken hearts and bottles of their salty tears.
I'm going to pre-order 2 copies so I get one of each.
You're going to need all the salt you can get to spice up the game considering how plain it's going to be, especially in space...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I can't take people serious when they complain they added a space tunnel shooter for a simple reason.
You either have a great ground game or a great space exploration game. You can't have both. Not if you want this game released within the next 5 years let alone a year.
Some of you might have been happy with a sub par ground game + space exploration but I would personally want a polished title with a tunnel space shooter than to wait X amount of extra years while the game engine get even more obsolete, just so they can give you what you want.
Comments
Actually no they are calling this a tunnel/tube shooter. You can move around (you're not on a rail), your movement is limited to a tube/tunnel.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
Who said anything about a sandbox? Nice over-generalization...And I'm about 100% sure Lucas/Bioware IS looking for My business...In fact if they don't get folks like us, folks who play MMO's, LOVE Star Wars, and were recruiting the day the Game was announced, then this game has NO chance...
The fact is there are Space Sims out there, Space Sims that have the Lucas Arts/Star Wars name on them, that are FAR more advanced than any rail shooter can be...I agree with those who say it's not a game-breaker, because it's not...But if you're going to do it don't half-ass it like this...This Game is supposed to be the be-all-end-all...A rail shooter does not exactly keep within that vein...And lastly if you're not going to do it, don't mock your Fans and make them feel their opinion is stupid...That was a major marketing misstep I can promise you that...The guy went from just another Dev to everyone in My Guild knowing his name and pretty much disliking him with a couple stupid comments...He should have apologized...Now he'll be at the forefront if things go bad with this game I promise you that much...MMO Gamers don't forget a thing...That's an understatement...Just look at the Star Wars history in this area...
The "jokes" if you want to call them that...I did not catch the humor at all and I'm hilarious...
...Those were not jokes, they were insults brought out by frustration when he knew he had a fanboi crowd...I'd like to see him say something like that in front of a more neutral crowd and see how it goes down...He'd get boo'd off the stage...
Star Wars isn't about grinding mobs.
Star Wars isn't about gearing up.
Star Wars isn't about tradeskilling.
Star Wars isn't about progressing through levels.
Star Wars isn't about a lot of things that MMORPGs ARE about.
Should they remove all these pieces because Star Wars wasn't "about" them?
Or, maybe they should add parts that make it more of an MMORPG and less of a rail shooter.
Considering the massive amount of MMORPG content in this game, the rail shooter really seems insignificant to me... it's a cute lil' mini game. Certainly nothing worth getting upset over.
Judging by the arguments from both sides I think Bioware's best bet would be to remove the space components altogether. The defensive crowd clearly don't care for the space stuff at all and the ones on the offense are nothing but disappointed by it... so what's the point? Bioware should either do it properly or not do it at all; they shouldn't make some lame attempt to appease a certain crowd and end up disappointing everyone...
It was the same in LOTRO... Turbine decided to implement housing but they did a botched and extremely half arsed job that never saw any more attention. They did it just to say that it was there but it only served to entirely disappoint the people who wanted it. They would have been better off not putting it in at all.
I am all for the rest of this game. And I'm going to buy the hell out of it. I just think it's silly to toss aside a better space system because the movies weren't like that or whatever that guy was saying.
Yeah Cold thats my opinion as well, i could have done with a nice cinematic instead of actually fighting and gotten nearly the same effect. Oh well go with what you got. Who knows maybe the tunnel shooter will be fun at least for a little while. Just to throw a curve in the game play to break away from the feel of ground combat just long enough to make it feel fresh again.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
You're both operating under the opinion that the presence of the "rail game" precludes a dog fighting game, or a more free form flying game to be added later. There's no logical basis for that assumption.
That's of the essence thing is it seems they thought they made it properly.
Now regarding all the feedback, you can guess if they were still that much confident about the space shooter they would have unveiled much more than the very short video clip. The reality check says otherwise.
I would agree with the fact that they disappointed the space sim fans and won't win the other ones., All in all a big mistake. This is a bad decision especially as you have almost the same game play in CWA, for free, mostly.
The only "good" reason to explain this choice is LA has a contract with another studio do publish a real 3D space sim, be it in BattleFront online that's paused or the supposedly space sim in development.
You follow a pre set path but can aim freely = rail shooter.
Some people call it one thing.
Other people call it another thing.
The speaker gets to decide what to call it, irrespective of whether that speaker's definition is consistent with a majority of peoples' definition.
I didn't just say sandbox, I also included free-form. Which is basically the opposite of what they are delivering especially in regard to space. This is how they describe themselves when asked are they themepark or sandbox: " we're creating a guided experience first and foremost". How was that an over-generalzation? This is another example of making something from nothing.
Space sims with star wars in the name died off long ago, the space sim genre largely died off around the same time. How many are released a year now or even every few years? Yeah, not many...
Sims if anything have become a product catered to super casuals who like growing crops, driving trucks or watching people do the things people do. Military sims all but gone, space sims the same, etc....
As for Erickson, sorry but please explain how these words are an insult:
"Why did you go with a tunnel shooter?" "Remember that time Han and Chewie were just out dicking around in space? Yeah, we didn't see it either."
It may have been a playful knock sure, but saying it's a blatant insult either says you're very sensitive or your exaggerating IMO.
He then went on to explain the decision and how they viewed space combat in the movies, which IMO basically summed up what we saw in the movies. Now to me all this was, was stage presense, and nothing more. Which requires a connection to the audience, the best way to achieve that is laughter and he succeeded in that.
What I find funny is I basically made a factual observation of the direction of this game and why some may not like it (a different preference) and you accuse me of over-generalizing. Yet here you are saying who was in an audience out of possible hundreds, they were all fanbois? hmmm.
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
There is no logical basis that it will include those things either. We are basing our assumptions on what they've told us. Which is far more logical than what you propose we do.
The logical assumption would be that there may or may not be dog fighting or free form fighting. Logic would tell you that you do not know either way.
Look i think what most people who say u dont need free for all or sandbox space are because we never expected space to begin with as anythign other then a means to get from planet to planet.
Look if it had a free form space combat it wouldnt bother me but a rail shooter tunnel shooter at the start doesnt bother me iether. Im much more interested in playing a jedi sith then a fighter pilot anyways. I see no reason why they cant add a free form space combat in the future. Will they probably not but u can always hope,
I for one will give it a try no matter what. I think my biggest argument is that just because its a thempark , rail shooter game doesnt mean it will fail or be an epic fail which most of the free form space combat sandbox game people say.
I dont go on a rant about how if they really liked that theyd play ever online or galaxies which is still around. No matter what the nge may or may not have done u can still play galaxies.
I just said this was never gonna be that. Sandbox games have become a niche game. They just dont do as well as themepark mmos. its not to put down sandbox games its just the reality.
Who cares if the space is on rails or not. Most people outside of these forums wont. They promised there would be a ton of stuff to do in this game. This happens to be one of them and appears to be like a mini game. I have a feeling they will have a lot of mini games which is better then no mini games. The more different things to do, the better. If you had your hopes on a space ship exploration game thinking this should have been Star Trek or something then go play another game.
There Is Always Hope!
In that case, you're in the unrepresentative minority when it comes to most people's reaction to the rail shooter.
Actually, I think your will end up to be the minority as these forums do not represent the average player out there. If it did, then there never would have been a successful game called WOW. Most people I talk to in my guilds in the other games don't give a crap about the bonus of a space mini game on rails when they weren't expecting this to be a Star Trek exploration space game to begin with. Also, we really have no idea what the final product will entail both on the planets or above the planets.
There Is Always Hope!
They included a space mini-game as well. Sweet this game is going to be awesome.
I hear the collectors edition comes with old SWG vets broken hearts and bottles of their salty tears.
I'm going to pre-order 2 copies so I get one of each.
You're going to need all the salt you can get to spice up the game considering how plain it's going to be, especially in space...
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
I'll pre-order it. I'm positive I can get $60 worth of entertainment out of it.
I don't expect it to replace my life, just give me something to do for a few hours.
I can't take people serious when they complain they added a space tunnel shooter for a simple reason.
You either have a great ground game or a great space exploration game. You can't have both. Not if you want this game released within the next 5 years let alone a year.
Some of you might have been happy with a sub par ground game + space exploration but I would personally want a polished title with a tunnel space shooter than to wait X amount of extra years while the game engine get even more obsolete, just so they can give you what you want.
Be realistic