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What do you do when MMOs are too difficult for you?
Elikal
Member UncommonPosts: 7,912
Ok, some gut feeling tells me it is unwise to write such a post. I am sure the next 2 years people will link it in every possible post against me time and again.... So what.
I suck at MMO gaming.
There. I said it. Quote me if you feel more "king" then. When I play MMOs, you can tell me a 1000 times "don't compare yourself", but by and large every single MMO has a lot contributed to me feeling second best, or rather 50th best or what you want. Yes I know there are always the large plethora of people telling you "this is easy" or "you just must get into it" or whatever. The fact is, in every single measure I found myself behind people, and the more competitve the more behind.
Recent and last example, Dynasty Warriors Online. I play DW for 12 or what years, and so I felt I should have a good chance against other players. But the reality I found was, that the vast majority of players I met on the battle field are making their combos SO MUCH faster I wasn't able to land a single blow on most of them. So after 2 days of experimenting I made a heartbreaking farwell to myself, since I liked the DW series. (Yeah, bad taste prolly... but we all have our weakenesses.)
And it brought back memories. Memories of me trying SWG PVP, my first PVP, where I never was really getting unto anything. Or Warhammer... good riddance. I shot a fireball or two with my Bright Mage, but I never ended anywhere than in the lowest quarter of the rating, even with 2 months of PVPer coaching me and then biting into cathedrals for wasting their time on me. Or Champions Online... GOD don't even start about CO or I burst into tears of frustration so bad was my PVP time there. I really experimented with 20 or so different PVP builds just hoping to find SOME setup to give my playstyle an advantage, to no avail. I never tried to hard and long to succeed as in CO to somehow learn or adapt or whatever. Nothing. After months of training and trying I never got out of that lowest rating in PVP matches there either.
So you say, ok don't PVP. Well first off, knowing I am a sucker and running away from PVP doesn't really feel like a solution. Maybe I am a masochist always coming back for more, who knows. Kinda self-punishment disability, but seeing how FAST and GOOD some people are... or rather MOST other I meet is just a pain. And in PVE... it isn't really much better. It always was the ENDLESS frustration in EQ2 and LOTRO in the time I played it, that everyone else had WAY more than I had. They had grinded through those raid and whatnot zones for their Golden Unicorn Mounts, their Three Level Estate, their Excalibur Superswords, the Flying SuperWyvern and Odins Own Armour. Where I always stood with my simple horse, my mediocre group loot armour and my 2 room house. Now matter how long I played, I always ended up standing around in the 3rd or 4th best type of gear around rich, powerful and uber equipped Superplayers.
You know. I am SICK AND TIRED of it. Sometimes I wonder why I even go to a game like a MMO which so obviously shoves my sucktasm into my face. Some times I try again, I hope, I work as hard as I can, many hours a day, but like in the story with rabbit and turtle (or whatever it was) the others are always better, faster, more equipped and generally wiping the floor with me.
Maybe I go play BINGO in some pensionaires club... *sigh*
/self-rant over
Seriously. I think there is something fundamentally WRONG with MMOs. They reward people who play like maniacs. People who grind games 8 hours a day and train games like it were work. They put you into a position of greed, envy, looking down on others and legion of quite unhealthy character traits. Like rewarding people for grinding 20000 faction from centaur killing. Or whatever it is. I mean isn't it mmoRPGs? Where is the RPG in that? Where is that ANYWHERE near what PnP games are like, where roleplay matters and more contribution like just how many thousand centaurs I killed to get that Flying Golden Dragon? I mean, we love our hobby. But when fail and time allow you to look at MMOs *for real*... maybe you see how many unhealthy and bad habits these games are all too often built on, and I wonder if the new generation's MMOs like GW2 or SWTOR finally really take this feeling away, that the others are the real evil of a game.
I wonder. Or maybe I am just a sukker. Who knows.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Comments
MMOs don't do that to people, people do it to each other.
In all the time I have spent playing MMOs, I think the reason that I enjoy them is because I am playing for my own enjoyment, not worrying about what others are doing, what gear they have and such. I refuse to be a slave to the 'keeping up with the Joneses' mentality that seems to plague a lot of gamers.
One thing about life. No matter how good you are at something, there is likely someone better at it.
Don't feel too bad, we're all pretty much schmucks when compared to Immanuel Kant, Albert Einstein, LeBron James and Garry Kasparov.
As far as Role Play, its just a matter of how you envision your character. In other words, what is their backstory. There is nothing implausible about a character who lost their parents to a horde of oversized rats, sister to a group of trolls, and best friend to a skeleton. Also...oh also...they have Obsessive Compulsive Disorder so while they are getting revenge on the rats, trolls, and skeletons they have to count each one and will only feel avenged when they get 1000, 2000, or whatever. And FFA PvP is even easier, everyone wants to role play a sadistic, trash-talking, mass murderer right?
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
Seriously though...
Two things you've identified are speed of twitch skills and gear grind. Have you tried EVE? It does not take terribly long to get the top 'gear' for many roles (getting the ship and parts for multiple roles is what keeps some people going). And combat is about tough and strategic, but not particularly fast decisions.
"Never met a pack of humans that were any different. Look at the idiots that get elected every couple of years. You really consider those guys more mature than us? The only difference between us and them is, when they gank some noobs and take their stuff, the noobs actually die." - Madimorga
The answer is pretty simple:
Either you don't like the game mechanims behind and you should move on.
Or you somewhat like (or accept) the game mechanims, and you should be able to overcome the (implied) redundant behaviors.
Well it is simple. I play games for escapism. I want to pretend I am someone great. A hero of sorts. Now in a MMO, everyone and everyone's mom seem to be better or have more. So, how then can I feel "heroic" (in the broadest sense), when 80% have more than me and beat me all the time in battle?
In the end it always boils down to this: while I want to play some other, heroic character, I have to be good with MY skills, not the character, I have to do the work and compete, not the charcter. And... I dunno. When I play my Monk in D&D for example, it has ZERO to do with MY OWN skills. But when I fight in a MMORPG, it essentially ALWAYS is my own personal skill; my reaction time, my nimble fingers at the controller. Which just are nonexistent. Apparently.
I mean, yes I can try to ignore what others can, but it is kinda diffcult in a multiplayer game where people parade with their uber gear and uber mounts in the streets 24/7.
I love MMOs for the worlds, the roles I play in, the story and the experience with people together. I just wish there was no way to see better stuff. Thats why CoH always remained one of my fav games. It used to have no loot and no one ever looked better because of grind or skill. At least back then.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I never played a difficult MMO, only time consuming MMOs. All that I couldn't do was just a matter of more time invested...
Sounds like you're playing for the wrong reasons. You're playing because you want to win and "be somebody" rather than out of love for the game. It's okay, a lot of people have this problem.
Here's the deal: We've all been taught that everyone has one special, magical gift / talent / skill that we are just naturally better at than everyone else and all we have to do is find it and never ending joy, happiness, success, sexual potency, etc., will fall from the heavens like rose petals at our feet. Unfortunately, that's complete bullshit. No one is naturally good at anything. We may have a natural interest that pushed us to put more time and energy into a particular task or subject than other people, but we don't just wake up one day as savant maestros in this or that activity. Believe it or don't, there was even a time when LeBron James couldn't sink a basket. Sure, he was probably still in diapers at the time, but that doesn't make it any less true.
I absolutely suck ass at both Chess and Go. I still love the holy hell out of both games though and play them regularly. Yes, I lose alot. But I also sometimes win. The rush of winning is great, but so is the rush of making my oponent work for a victory. Getting mated in three move (yes, I know that's impossible), or losing by 70+ points in a 9X9 game of Go may be disheartening, but the games themselves are compelling enough that I don't care.
In other words, lighten up and remember that winning isn't everything.
... Unless you have money riding on it or something.
Sigh, wish I could do that. Truth is, I HATE losing. I vividly passionately hate losing. Probably because I usually have great self-doubt already I tend to get down by such things. If my life was rich, full of pleasures and love, it would likely matter little. But since it isnt and I find myself on the lower side in games just AGAIN... it irks the living hell outta me.
Why do MMOs have to be designed like this? That it is, in the end, again based on your skill and not the characters? That better people get better things? Why can't we all just get the same for trying OUR PERSONAL best? What more can you expect of a person that he does what he can, and value that?
(And why am I even asking that... shoot. I need a cake now...)
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
You can't get reward for nothing, even in an MMORPG.
Have skill? Play games which reward skill.
Have time? Play RPGs which reward time investment.
Have friends? Play MMOs which reward socializing (this means even basic stuff like "join a guild and raid")
Have a computer? Play Progress Quest and be rewarded simply for leaving the program running.
To a degree, the "sick and tired" feeling is intentional. You're meant to feel like if you had more skill, time, or friends you would do better -- because the game wants you to invest more of those into playing it.
Also, "sick and tired" is a natural human motivational reaction -- you feel that way and it motivates you to improve your prior station in life. If you convince yourself you really want to improve, you'll do better in MMORPGs (you'll gain the skill, make the time, and/or make the friends.)
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
if youre having a hard time keeping up, maybe try looking for a class that can soak up a lot of damage. if youre having a tough time killing someone fast enough, maybe look for a class that focuses more on supporting your fellow teammates or controlling your enemies. hope that helps a little.
The only thing really difficult about MMOs is time investment. If you can't put in X number of hours per day thats the biggest thing that makes playing with others, "difficult". Playing single player games on the hardest modes always seem more challenging than the PvE in a MMO. I guess dealing with incompetent group members can make a MMO difficult, but thats not exactly the game's fault. Its more the dumb player, hehe. Nothing about a MMO is ever that hard to understand. Some are far less intuitive, but thats more a design error rather than something being difficult in my mind. Not understanding something as quickly as you should due to lousy explanations, descriptions or shotty control and UIs just makes me want to uninstall. I have no patience for the basics not done properly.
PvP is no harder in a MMO compared to any other online game. If you're hand eye isn't up to snuff, hey, thats your personal ability cap=) I've only quit MMOs due to boredom or crazy time investment. The last time I stopped playing a game because it was too difficult would have to be the 16-bit era=)
I can do well within a set scenario like when they do groups to do PvE content. I am pretty good healer so I usually get groups and stuff the second I log on from people who have partied with me before. So I used that same skill set for PvP I know I cannot play a rogue or play some bunny hopping hunter but I can heal well with a pally or a shaman or a druid...talking about WoW bgs here. In Warhammer I was almost always top healer if I played a runepriest,archmage or that mad healer cannot recall the name now. I stuck to what I am good at.
I think you need to find your niche and play there instead of looking for things you cannot do. I would like to be a mad skills rogue or witch elf or play some cool DPS person but I know my limitations.
You know it's what I liked about the GW2 concept texts. They always said that everyone gets something from contributing, you never get nothing, and they make the game so that people feel not as competitors so much. I liked that idea in the design.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Surprise.
I actually agree with most you said.
MMOs have major inherent flaws:
They want you to "play" them forever.
Almost all devs were total hardcore fanatcs and raid leaders who got their dream job.
At "end-game" they become more a sport and less a fun adventure.
First part of the game is built on fun, getting you feeling good about yourself, you almost always win with a decent PUG. Lots of good rewards, Very inclusive, almost everything is doable by normal players and almost no repetition.
BUT, then they start designing everything to keep the hardcore busy. Grind becomes king, trying to keep the hardcore busy whle the devs deaparately try to keep up with content for them.
The devs never successfully keep up, so what they do program, they require doing it over and over.
Problem is the "workload" and time and study needed applies to everyone, even those with a life. So the "normal" and "casual" players end up looking at this huge grind in front of them. The are playing normally as to amount of time online and as to the amount of "study" they have put into the game to succeed.
The hardcore brag about how they soloed such and such killer boss or instance easily, most of the normal and casual say nothing as it is basically publically saying they suck if they complain something was too hard.
Normal and casual players start to leave and the devs see the hardcore as the only ones they can count on to stay. Programming for pardcore is a self-fulflling prophecy.
Also the devs just plain like to develope intricate, difficult, "challenging" raids. Those are what's fun to them. These are what made them famous and helped get them their jobs and what they like to show off to their dev buddies at conventions. They kinda get into playing their own game, the game is make it as hard as possible so only the few guys who are "dedicated", play INTENSIVELY for hours every day, ever win and thus the only players that end up feeling good about themselves.
Now if they designed the methods to slow down (grind) the gobbling up content to ONLY affect the hardcore, they would do fine.....
Make the "rested experience" increase a REAL need to progress ....extemely slow experience if not rested, push the hardcore to other things like atts and crafting once rested runs out to even out the progression so the devs have a chance to keep up with developing content without resorting to artifically extending the life of content through grind and repetition.
A lot of MMO's the gear really is the deciding factor in which wins a pvp battle. In order to obtain the best there is, you have to be in the right guilds and know how to brown nose the raid officers and have the time available to raid often. If you are asocial it really hinders you when it comes to obtaining the gear you need for that extra edge.
If you can get access to the gear it takes to have an edge then learn your class. If you get beaten repeatedly by a certain class then switch classes and try the one that is beating you over and over. Learn it's weakness and pay attention to how you lose your battles. Say you play a necromancer but wizards keeps beating you up. make a wizard and pay attention how other more skilled necromancers take you out. Then apply those tactics when you switch back to your necromancer.
To answer your question what to do when MMO's are too difficult for you?. Don't play PvP based games. Stick to PvE. It will save you a lot of frustrations
The real problem is the importance on gear and how loot is handled in MMO's. 20+ people coming together to kill 1 mob that drops a very small amount of loot. Since there obviously isn't enough to go around we have invented raid points.. the single most retarded system ever introduced to gaming because of how MMO endgame works.
MMO's should incorporate the same loot system diablo 3 is going to implement. That would be a good start.
Learn how to add the MULTIPLAYER aspect of MMORPG into your PVP experience.
You're last because you're doing your own thing. People lose in pug pvp because they go against 'pre-mades' which basically means a group that has a goal and a plan and you can NOT win against them.
Tactics work. You can have horrible gear, horrible reaction timing, horrible circumstances and with proper teamwork win.
I've done it in every MMO and Shadowbane was my first pvp experience. You had to be tactical, despite templates of the day helping some, it still mattered on how well you could listen to orders or give out orders.
Don't lonegun into pvp expecting to pwnz it hardcore. It never works that way.
And if you have too many social issues to work on tactics and communicate with a functional battle group, then play single player games.
OP, I'm there with ya, bro. I ain't the best, not even close. Course, I don't even bother with PVP anymore. I still find MMOs fun. I just take things at my own pace and have fun with what I can do. Not being the best player on the server isn't the end of the world. If your having fund doing what you can do, who cares?
It's a proven historical fact that beer saved humankind.
If I find a mmo too difficult it probably means i don't have enough time to play it. My first thought is buy game gold and get gear, but I have done that before and it sucks in another way cause you just buying your way to the next level. So, I usually quit.
Envying pro players in a mmo is a natural tendency but unless you spend as much time as they do in the game you are not being realistic about why they are top players and you are not. Time is the winner, and you will find that most top players practically live in the mmo. And, many of those are pretty stupid in all other matters cause they just play games all day. Wanna be like them? lol I doubt it.
The problem is you are competing in the game with those players, when with some of these guys competing isnt realistic at all! You have to think, now this isnt near all the MMO players by far, but some of these guys have no job, no kids, and all they want to do is play these games, so those guys are really in another league as far as MMOs go since MMOs take time.
Dont look at it as "That guy was my level yesterday I gotta get past him" or anything like that because unless you have the time to dedicate to it like they do you wont catch them.
If you play a game just because you want to, that is when you will stick with it.
Plus max lvl on most games isnt even that fun. I know I have more good memories and thoughts of my games when I wasnt max level. Like Deadmines (level 15-20) instance in WoW which I still think of anytime someone says instance. Or in City of Heroes things like the Synapse Task Force (20ish?) or trying to push past lvl 34 with the Manticore TF, those things make memories.
In most games when you get to max level it gets repetative and boring, and you do the same Raids to get a rare item or you PvP, like with anything the road getting somewhere is more fun often times than what your going to.
So enjoy the games you play, dont worry about leveling faster than Nevergetslaid09 and have fun with it!
Mystery Bounty
I'll let you know if it ever happens.
As someone mentioned previously, MMOs aren't hard, just time consuming. the gameplay is a cakewalk.
Joined 2004 - I can't believe I've been a MMORPG.com member for 20 years! Get off my lawn!
MMOs haven't been difficult since 2003 so... no idea.
It really just depends on the MMO for me. If a MMO is buggy difficult then I usually give up, but if I think the genre is amazing and the game is just time consuming and too some tedious, then I usually challenge myself to complete it.
Everquest 1 is a great example of a "Difficult" MMO. You had to craft (Who even knows what the recipes were unless you researched), and you also had to grind a lot to level. Quests were not hand held and receiving a awesome item in that game is very satisfying due to the hard work put in.
I tried EVE and I would consider that difficult. Even though it is not my genre I found it to be a game where they spent a lot of attention to detail and a lot of different options, personally I was lost. Only because sci fi games don't really do it for me.
Final Fantasy XIV isn't all too doom and gloom. It actually reminds of me of Everquest 1 in a lot of ways. Sure the levequest per x amount of hours is retarded, and sure the interface makes you want to kill yourself and baby kittens but there's soemthing about it I like. Honestly I actually have really high hopes for Everquest Next. Please don't fuck it up SOE.
I actually enjoy MMO surfing, and their is a lot coming out in the next year or so. (Cata, KOTOR, Rift?)
If you are looking for a competitive game that keeps people on the same playing field play WoW arenas, starcraft, Counter Strike etc... Most mmo's are very time consuming to get gear so people who play longer always have the advantage (this also applies to the EVE system).
Out of all the mmo's i've played all go under the case of more time = advantage. WoW used to be the same also when raid gear was > pvp gear. But as far as mmos go WoW arenas is the most equal playing field, anyone can get top pvp gear as long as they have skill.
i'm really high right now so I hope that made sense.