AmazingAveryAge of Conan AdvocateMemberUncommonPosts: 7,188
Regardless of whether Bliz can incorporate 'this and that' from GW if wanted, the damage would be done. Imitation is the best form of flattery and for a game like WoW with all the goodness that WoW is questions would be asked why was this not done to begin with? They are not really 'followers'.
GW2 won't be the next WoW in terms of sheer amount of ppl playing but they are putting elements in the game that the public was asking for just like Bliz did with WoW those years ago.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
I think your over estimating Blizzard on this one.
I don't think you understand the scope of blizzard.
sry robert i gotta agree with jimmy on this one (half way at least) i dont think they couldnt copy GW2's ideas but its not something they could copy into wow the core game designs are incompatible, now if they were to make a WoW 2 (or whatever they would name their second mmo) yes they would incorporate them however faster than Anet? no
the reason i dont think they could do it faster than Anet is because they would have to do the programming from scratch (not to mention make the whole mmo so it could allow these ideas) i personaly think your just overestimating the human race in its ability to write code perfectly and with enough speed to outpace coders that are probably just as good as them, debugging code takes time because noone can anticipate exactly how a those thousands of pages of code are going to interact .
and WoW wouldnt copy them untill they decided it would make them money (therefore after its been proven to work in another game).
not every problem can be solved with blizzards massive piles of cash.
now on topic uhm no just no *walks away*
EDIT: post 100 yay
Show me which core game designs prevent blizzard from drastically changing their game? They've proven through each expansion that they can modify and change the game drastically in a very short time.
I mean it's like people who claimed phasing wouldn't be possible for WoW, and blizzard started implementing that.
There is no element in GW2 that would be impossible for blizzard to code into their game, they are much more well-funded and have some of the best in the industry in their company.
You think dynamic events can't be implemented? They are scripted events just like everything else... they just have outcomes that trigger other scripted events.
There is nothing in WoW's coding that prevents blizzard from developing events that function the same way, as a matter of fact the death knight starting area was an example of how blizzard can have you play through content and then have that content effect your surroundings.
Because the death knight starting area was linear and you played through it and left, it did not have to be cyclical in nature, but if you think blizzard couldn't program it to them take steps back to reverting to a previous state you are delusional.
I see people claim "oh it just wouldn't work with WOW's mechanics" but they don't seem to have a grasp on how implementation works.
There is no special aspect to GW2 that could not be recoded into WoW and implemented similarly. If anything WoW's engine is far less limited than GW2's from a gameplay mechanic standpoint, graphically however it comes out short.
I think dilusional would be claiming that any past wow expansion changed the game drastically, or that it happened in a short amount of time.
I think delusional would be thinking that any mmo company provides as much content as WoW does at the rate that it does.
I also think delusional would be not noticing the vast differences between questing from vanilla to tbc to wotlk, and the use of phasing technology, the death knight starting area, and all the other various mechanics introduced in wotlk.
Originally posted by AmazingAvery
Regardless of whether Bliz can incorporate 'this and that' from GW if wanted, the damage would be done. Imitation is the best form of flattery and for a game like WoW with all the goodness that WoW is questions would be asked why was this not done to begin with? They are not really 'followers'.
GW2 won't be the next WoW in terms of sheer amount of ppl playing but they are putting elements in the game that the public was asking for just like Bliz did with WoW those years ago.
You do realize that basically all WoW was originally was the best aspects of the 1st gen MMOS without the flaws right? Blizzard does polishing these days, it rarely innovates.
A company like Blizzard that can throw 100-200 million dollars onto the game for extra development and redesign whenever they feel like it, can install a hell of a lot of features.
Issue is time. Throwing enough budget and resources into the development mix solves one bottleneck, but to implement big changes and go through the whole process right still takes a lot of time: when development of a target set takes 20 months with 20 people, it doesn't suddenly become 4 months with 100 people. You're still looking at a time threshold regarding minimal development period especially with radical changes.
Another thing to take into account is whether Activision Blizzard would find it acceptable, the invested amount of money and resources for large changes for the added profit it would bring, especially after a radical change as CATA. They'd only do it when their revenues would drop significantly.
And then you have the situation that it's a risky thing to do, implementing radical changes in a finely tuned, highly polished game. It could seriously backfire and have the averse effect of losing parts of your playerbase, as major changes in other MMORPG's have proven (SWG's NGE, AoC's Bori or LotrO's Mirkwood to name a few).
In short, the fact that they can doesn't mean that they will copy and implement radical changes, because of so many other reasons that play a role. The incentive to do it should be very high and the return on investment feasible to decide such a thing.
Anyway, thread is in danger of derailing from the OP topic again: I'd advise to just wait and see and enjoy it when the game comes out. It certainly has enough traits to make it a fun and different gameplay experience.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You do realize that basically all WoW was originally was the best aspects of the 1st gen MMOS without the flaws right? Blizzard does polishing these days, it rarely innovates.
Blizzard hasn't had an original idea since Lost Vikings. Warcraft and Starcraft (Blizzard's most popular franchises) are blatant copy-pastes of Warhammer, hell they even tried to gain the Warhammer IP but were told gtfo, so they just ripped it off. I have no respect for Blizzard really, at least not from a design standpoint.
On topic- I don't think GW2 will be the next WoW, but I think it will be VERY popular. As long as the game has a healthy population and good PvP I'll be happy. I could care less about how it stacks up to WoW and all of its easy-mode, PvE humping crowd. I want a PvP game, so I choose GW2.
GW2 will not be even close to as big as WOW, but even being 1/10th as big as wow is still very successful.
And even if GW2 were capable of replacing wow, which it emphatically is not capable of, blizzard would just gut the best GW2 ideas and incorporate them into WOW faster than anet could develop them themselves.
That would be a complete flip from WoW.. From what I'm seeing, GW2 is a open world boss raiding system.. GW2 is not a gear grind as WoW has become.. The best thing GW2 has going for them is 1) soft grouping events and 2) open world raids.. WoW will never revamp and gut their own game to make those changes..
Gw 2 will kill wow? Dont know that's up to the players. I believe though it can stick a nail or two to wow's coffin.
Fact 1: Point is Gw2 will attract more aged mature players. The big pie in player's market that blizard is focusing wow evolvment is 10-20 y old players. And since the big pie remains in wow GW 2 wont kill wow in numbers. That doesn't concerns me though since i prefer the community of the game i play is based upon mature players and not nerd raged youngsters.
Fact2 : A serious number of old wow players are frustrated by bliz for not eveolving the game alot,the same style of gameplay tired0 a lot of players repeating dailies,same dungeons and same raid farming badge hunting made those ppl got tired and bored with wow . Those players will happily move into GW 2 or Rift Planes of Telara. Means blizzard will get a nice double shock around February-March.
Fact 3 : If Blizard see a sub falling report ( and they will see it) there are 2 possibilities.
A.They wont change much wow maybe they ll hastely throw couple things to draw back few pees Titan's path that got canceled maybe,extra new revamp,on talents (many ppl quited wow due to that lately) but basically they ll keep focusing on the plan which si to keep their youngster base in wow.
B.They ll take seriously the competition and throw some serious shit in wow, heroic classes new gameplay motives, speed up their future in game changes,enlarge talent trees,add some of the cancelled heroic classes etc etc Thing is that blizard they have made billions of money all these years from wow and financially they have the power to add huge contents IF they wish soon enough.
As for me i quited wow 2 months now, dont think i ll come back for cata, im checking closely GW 2 +Rift Planes of Telara. these 2 games seems to deliver whats aoc ddo lotro failed to do.
By "next WoW" you mean the game to be hated and bashed by people who for the most part have little to no interest in it and have not played at all or past the trial (this is the situation on other forums, here I see people as having more legitemate gripes with the game since this is an mmo site)?
Which aspect of WoW do you want GW 2 to aspire to ? The aspect where it is cool to hate it and spend copious amounts of time condemning and blaming everything from starvation to global warming to. This poor horse has been resurrected so many times to be beaten to death again that someone should really put it out of its misery by hiding the corpse.
Anet is doing everything they can to pull in as many players as possible without having to rely on stealing players from WoW or other sub based MMO's.
Look at some of the things they've done and I'll show why I feel they did it.
1)No sub fee: Simply put players won't feel like they need to give up their sub in order to play GW2.
2)No holy trinity: Providing a very different gameplay experience from traditional sub based holy trinity games.
3)Downed state: The type of fast paced action gameplay is very different from most MMO's and almost seems like its trying to bridge the MMO-FPS gap to take some of those players.
4)PvP focus: GW2 is catering to PvP much more than most MMO's especially at launch which I believe is to bring in the PvP that probably gave up on most MMO's.
In my opinion the last thing Anet is trying to do is rely on stealing players from traditional MMO's to find it's playerbase. This will allow GW2 to become a great supplementary game for many MMO players that play it in conjunction with their favorite sub based MMO. I think a lot of players will keep their sub based MMO and play GW2 and continue buying the expansions/DLC in lieu of buying the next best WoW clone every 6 months that is trying to copy WoW and failing because WoW has a 6 year headstart.
Anet is doing everything they can to pull in as many players as possible without having to rely on stealing players from WoW or other sub based MMO's.
Look at some of the things they've done and I'll show why I feel they did it.
1)No sub fee: Simply put players won't feel like they need to give up their sub in order to play GW2.
2)No holy trinity: Providing a very different gameplay experience from traditional sub based holy trinity games.
3)Downed state: The type of fast paced action gameplay is very different from most MMO's and almost seems like its trying to bridge the MMO-FPS gap to take some of those players.
4)PvP focus: GW2 is catering to PvP much more than most MMO's especially at launch which I believe is to bring in the PvP that probably gave up on most MMO's.
In my opinion the last thing Anet is trying to do is rely on stealing players from traditional MMO's to find it's playerbase. This will allow GW2 to become a great supplementary game for many MMO players that play it in conjunction with their favorite sub based MMO. I think a lot of players will keep their sub based MMO and play GW2 and continue buying the expansions/DLC in lieu of buying the next best WoW clone every 6 months that is trying to copy WoW and failing because WoW has a 6 year headstart.
This. Pretty much the case of things I do believe.
A company like Blizzard that can throw 100-200 million dollars onto the game for extra development and redesign whenever they feel like it, can install a hell of a lot of features.
Issue is time. Throwing enough budget and resources into the development mix solves one bottleneck, but to implement big changes and go through the whole process right still takes a lot of time: when development of a target set takes 20 months with 20 people, it doesn't suddenly become 4 months with 100 people. You're still looking at a time threshold regarding minimal development period especially with radical changes.
Another thing to take into account is whether Activision Blizzard would find it acceptable, the invested amount of money and resources for large changes for the added profit it would bring, especially after a radical change as CATA. They'd only do it when their revenues would drop significantly.
And then you have the situation that it's a risky thing to do, implementing radical changes in a finely tuned, highly polished game. It could seriously backfire and have the averse effect of losing parts of your playerbase, as major changes in other MMORPG's have proven (SWG's NGE, AoC's Bori or LotrO's Mirkwood to name a few).
In short, the fact that they can doesn't mean that they will copy and implement radical changes, because of so many other reasons that play a role. The incentive to do it should be very high and the return on investment feasible to decide such a thing.
Anyway, thread is in danger of derailing from the OP topic again: I'd advise to just wait and see and enjoy it when the game comes out. It certainly has enough traits to make it a fun and different gameplay experience.
QFT everything that i forgot to add to my argument ty
Gw 2 will kill wow? Dont know that's up to the players. I believe though it can stick a nail or two to wow's coffin.
Fact 1: Point is Gw2 will attract more aged mature players. The big pie in player's market that blizard is focusing wow evolvment is 10-20 y old players. And since the big pie remains in wow GW 2 wont kill wow in numbers. That doesn't concerns me though since i prefer the community of the game i play is based upon mature players and not nerd raged youngsters.
Fact2 : A serious number of old wow players are frustrated by bliz for not eveolving the game alot,the same style of gameplay tired0 a lot of players repeating dailies,same dungeons and same raid farming badge hunting made those ppl got tired and bored with wow . Those players will happily move into GW 2 or Rift Planes of Telara. Means blizzard will get a nice double shock around February-March.
Fact 3 : If Blizard see a sub falling report ( and they will see it) there are 2 possibilities.
A.They wont change much wow maybe they ll hastely throw couple things to draw back few pees Titan's path that got canceled maybe,extra new revamp,on talents (many ppl quited wow due to that lately) but basically they ll keep focusing on the plan which si to keep their youngster base in wow.
B.They ll take seriously the competition and throw some serious shit in wow, heroic classes new gameplay motives, speed up their future in game changes,enlarge talent trees,add some of the cancelled heroic classes etc etc Thing is that blizard they have made billions of money all these years from wow and financially they have the power to add huge contents IF they wish soon enough.
As for me i quited wow 2 months now, dont think i ll come back for cata, im checking closely GW 2 +Rift Planes of Telara. these 2 games seems to deliver whats aoc ddo lotro failed to do.
i dont realy think GW2 will have much affect on WOW's population but none of us can see the future at best we can give a very accurate guess so we just have to wait and see.
if blizz does loose numbers it will probably only be because of its age and or blizzard putting out a new mmo because even with a time investment in WoW people will get bored of it eventualy (and new people will come of this im sure WoW even when its dieing will probably remain for many many years retaining a few hundred thousand players untill it dwindles to a small enough number for blizzard to ditch it, unless something realy big and unexpected happens this seems most likely based on current verifiable information).
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
To the Op i think GW2 will be the next Largely succesful mmo after wow, as i say the rest have not been aiming for large subs, or have been but failed to get them 600k doesn't count.
I thinbk Gw2 will get large numbers simply for the fact its B2P, w/ an x-pack or dlc format.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
It's still just a script, and nothing that would be impossible for blizzard to implement into WoW if they saw it as the right move to make for their game.
Dynamic events are more immersive than typical quests in implementation, but the reality of it is they function very similar to quest chains which are not a new thing to mmos.
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
It's still just a script, and nothing that would be impossible for blizzard to implement into WoW if they saw it as the right move to make for their game.
Dynamic events are more immersive than typical quests in implementation, but the reality of it is they function very similar to quest chains which are not a new thing to mmos.
The idea of dynamic events were to create a living world. You don't have to go to a NPC and get a text and have a quest that want you to kill that and that and collect that. In GW2 you will go across the continent and see and hear things and if it interests you, you will go see what's there. There will still be an NPC around you can talk to (if you want) and he will provide information about what is happening.
Seriously i hate quests in mmorpg. The only kind of things i like is the Missions and primary quests in Guild Wars that has a story, with cinematics and cool stuff and of course Dungeons and raids is also awesome,like in Vanguard: saga of heroes.
Guild Wars 2 will make "quests" into dynamic events and all i can say is that dynamic events is thousands times better than lame quests and quest chains is not like dynamic events, because quest chains is still quests.
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
It's still just a script, and nothing that would be impossible for blizzard to implement into WoW if they saw it as the right move to make for their game.
Dynamic events are more immersive than typical quests in implementation, but the reality of it is they function very similar to quest chains which are not a new thing to mmos.
The idea of dynamic events were to create a living world. You don't have to go to a NPC and get a text and have a quest that want you to kill that and that and collect that. In GW2 you will go across the continent and see and hear things and if it interests you, you will go see what's there. There will still be an NPC around you can talk to (if you want) and he will provide information about what is happening.
Seriously i hate quests in mmorpg. The only kind of things i like is the Missions and primary quests in Guild Wars that has a story, with cinematics and cool stuff and of course Dungeons and raids is also awesome,like in Vanguard: saga of heroes.
Guild Wars 2 will make "quests" into dynamic events and all i can say is that dynamic events is thousands times better than lame quests and quest chains is not like dynamic events, because quest chains is still quests.
But "dynamic" events are more to convey the intention behind them, not an accurate description of the events themselves, they aren't any more dynamic than a quest, you either kill off the centaurs or you don't. It's still a scripted pass/fail. It is just presented in a way that is more immersive for some people.
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
Maybe we have a different idea of pass/fail. If you fail to push back the centaurs, they can set up a fort -- which provides content to push them out. If you successfully push back the centaurs, then the city is saved and new merchants may become availabe, etc.
I think you are both right to an extent. The quests are indeed either pas/fail, BUT they have further reaching consequences then just abandoning the quest and retaking it. The dynamic events enter a different cycle based on the passing/failing of the event which definitely makes the game more immersive and could make for some pretty epic dynamic event cycles.
But "dynamic" events are more to convey the intention behind them, not an accurate description of the events themselves, they aren't any more dynamic than a quest, you either kill off the centaurs or you don't. It's still a scripted pass/fail. It is just presented in a way that is more immersive for some people.
There is no going forward with normal quests. You either complete it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't move forward and you must try again. Here the "failure" is another way to go forward. One can only guess if there is always just two outcomes and one can only guess if they are always between failure and success.
Since scripted content is fairly rare these days I welcome every chance to get it. Instances and scripted content are nearly always the best PvE content in a MMORPG.
EDIT: There was also mention about dynamic quest chains affecting each other. Like in the case of the Shatterer, another quest-chain must be in a specific state in order to use the siege engines against the dragon. So there are some twists.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been-Wayne Gretzky
Nothing will force blizzard to shut down wow. However that is not saying much considering Ultima Online is still ongoing. If you look at it from the aspect that one day a game could take over as the MMO with the most players, then I would have to say its innevitable even if its years down the road and is a game made by blizzard (I dont think this will be the case but it is possible).
Comments
Regardless of whether Bliz can incorporate 'this and that' from GW if wanted, the damage would be done. Imitation is the best form of flattery and for a game like WoW with all the goodness that WoW is questions would be asked why was this not done to begin with? They are not really 'followers'.
GW2 won't be the next WoW in terms of sheer amount of ppl playing but they are putting elements in the game that the public was asking for just like Bliz did with WoW those years ago.
I think delusional would be thinking that any mmo company provides as much content as WoW does at the rate that it does.
I also think delusional would be not noticing the vast differences between questing from vanilla to tbc to wotlk, and the use of phasing technology, the death knight starting area, and all the other various mechanics introduced in wotlk.
You do realize that basically all WoW was originally was the best aspects of the 1st gen MMOS without the flaws right? Blizzard does polishing these days, it rarely innovates.
A company like Blizzard that can throw 100-200 million dollars onto the game for extra development and redesign whenever they feel like it, can install a hell of a lot of features.
Issue is time. Throwing enough budget and resources into the development mix solves one bottleneck, but to implement big changes and go through the whole process right still takes a lot of time: when development of a target set takes 20 months with 20 people, it doesn't suddenly become 4 months with 100 people. You're still looking at a time threshold regarding minimal development period especially with radical changes.
Another thing to take into account is whether Activision Blizzard would find it acceptable, the invested amount of money and resources for large changes for the added profit it would bring, especially after a radical change as CATA. They'd only do it when their revenues would drop significantly.
And then you have the situation that it's a risky thing to do, implementing radical changes in a finely tuned, highly polished game. It could seriously backfire and have the averse effect of losing parts of your playerbase, as major changes in other MMORPG's have proven (SWG's NGE, AoC's Bori or LotrO's Mirkwood to name a few).
In short, the fact that they can doesn't mean that they will copy and implement radical changes, because of so many other reasons that play a role. The incentive to do it should be very high and the return on investment feasible to decide such a thing.
Anyway, thread is in danger of derailing from the OP topic again: I'd advise to just wait and see and enjoy it when the game comes out. It certainly has enough traits to make it a fun and different gameplay experience.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Blizzard hasn't had an original idea since Lost Vikings. Warcraft and Starcraft (Blizzard's most popular franchises) are blatant copy-pastes of Warhammer, hell they even tried to gain the Warhammer IP but were told gtfo, so they just ripped it off. I have no respect for Blizzard really, at least not from a design standpoint.
On topic- I don't think GW2 will be the next WoW, but I think it will be VERY popular. As long as the game has a healthy population and good PvP I'll be happy. I could care less about how it stacks up to WoW and all of its easy-mode, PvE humping crowd. I want a PvP game, so I choose GW2.
That would be a complete flip from WoW.. From what I'm seeing, GW2 is a open world boss raiding system.. GW2 is not a gear grind as WoW has become.. The best thing GW2 has going for them is 1) soft grouping events and 2) open world raids.. WoW will never revamp and gut their own game to make those changes..
Gw 2 will kill wow? Dont know that's up to the players. I believe though it can stick a nail or two to wow's coffin.
Fact 1: Point is Gw2 will attract more aged mature players. The big pie in player's market that blizard is focusing wow evolvment is 10-20 y old players. And since the big pie remains in wow GW 2 wont kill wow in numbers. That doesn't concerns me though since i prefer the community of the game i play is based upon mature players and not nerd raged youngsters.
Fact2 : A serious number of old wow players are frustrated by bliz for not eveolving the game alot,the same style of gameplay tired0 a lot of players repeating dailies,same dungeons and same raid farming badge hunting made those ppl got tired and bored with wow . Those players will happily move into GW 2 or Rift Planes of Telara. Means blizzard will get a nice double shock around February-March.
Fact 3 : If Blizard see a sub falling report ( and they will see it) there are 2 possibilities.
A.They wont change much wow maybe they ll hastely throw couple things to draw back few pees Titan's path that got canceled maybe,extra new revamp,on talents (many ppl quited wow due to that lately) but basically they ll keep focusing on the plan which si to keep their youngster base in wow.
B.They ll take seriously the competition and throw some serious shit in wow, heroic classes new gameplay motives, speed up their future in game changes,enlarge talent trees,add some of the cancelled heroic classes etc etc Thing is that blizard they have made billions of money all these years from wow and financially they have the power to add huge contents IF they wish soon enough.
As for me i quited wow 2 months now, dont think i ll come back for cata, im checking closely GW 2 +Rift Planes of Telara. these 2 games seems to deliver whats aoc ddo lotro failed to do.
By "next WoW" you mean the game to be hated and bashed by people who for the most part have little to no interest in it and have not played at all or past the trial (this is the situation on other forums, here I see people as having more legitemate gripes with the game since this is an mmo site)?
whoever wants a wow killer, should go and play wow.
as simple.
uh @topic: GW2 wont even be close ^^
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Which aspect of WoW do you want GW 2 to aspire to ? The aspect where it is cool to hate it and spend copious amounts of time condemning and blaming everything from starvation to global warming to. This poor horse has been resurrected so many times to be beaten to death again that someone should really put it out of its misery by hiding the corpse.
Nothing will take WoW's place, period. The only thing that could stop the MMO would be if Blizzard ended it for bigger and better things.
After so many years of this same debate, game after game you would think people would just give it a rest? Guess not.
Anet is doing everything they can to pull in as many players as possible without having to rely on stealing players from WoW or other sub based MMO's.
Look at some of the things they've done and I'll show why I feel they did it.
1)No sub fee: Simply put players won't feel like they need to give up their sub in order to play GW2.
2)No holy trinity: Providing a very different gameplay experience from traditional sub based holy trinity games.
3)Downed state: The type of fast paced action gameplay is very different from most MMO's and almost seems like its trying to bridge the MMO-FPS gap to take some of those players.
4)PvP focus: GW2 is catering to PvP much more than most MMO's especially at launch which I believe is to bring in the PvP that probably gave up on most MMO's.
In my opinion the last thing Anet is trying to do is rely on stealing players from traditional MMO's to find it's playerbase. This will allow GW2 to become a great supplementary game for many MMO players that play it in conjunction with their favorite sub based MMO. I think a lot of players will keep their sub based MMO and play GW2 and continue buying the expansions/DLC in lieu of buying the next best WoW clone every 6 months that is trying to copy WoW and failing because WoW has a 6 year headstart.
No doubt Guild Wars 2 will be the next big mmo for players. WoW is still good but it is old and players will look for a change to something new.
This. Pretty much the case of things I do believe.
QFT everything that i forgot to add to my argument ty
i dont realy think GW2 will have much affect on WOW's population but none of us can see the future at best we can give a very accurate guess so we just have to wait and see.
if blizz does loose numbers it will probably only be because of its age and or blizzard putting out a new mmo because even with a time investment in WoW people will get bored of it eventualy (and new people will come of this im sure WoW even when its dieing will probably remain for many many years retaining a few hundred thousand players untill it dwindles to a small enough number for blizzard to ditch it, unless something realy big and unexpected happens this seems most likely based on current verifiable information).
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
The above is true in so many ways.
To the Op i think GW2 will be the next Largely succesful mmo after wow, as i say the rest have not been aiming for large subs, or have been but failed to get them 600k doesn't count.
I thinbk Gw2 will get large numbers simply for the fact its B2P, w/ an x-pack or dlc format.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
It's still just a script, and nothing that would be impossible for blizzard to implement into WoW if they saw it as the right move to make for their game.
Dynamic events are more immersive than typical quests in implementation, but the reality of it is they function very similar to quest chains which are not a new thing to mmos.
The idea of dynamic events were to create a living world. You don't have to go to a NPC and get a text and have a quest that want you to kill that and that and collect that. In GW2 you will go across the continent and see and hear things and if it interests you, you will go see what's there. There will still be an NPC around you can talk to (if you want) and he will provide information about what is happening.
Seriously i hate quests in mmorpg. The only kind of things i like is the Missions and primary quests in Guild Wars that has a story, with cinematics and cool stuff and of course Dungeons and raids is also awesome,like in Vanguard: saga of heroes.
Guild Wars 2 will make "quests" into dynamic events and all i can say is that dynamic events is thousands times better than lame quests and quest chains is not like dynamic events, because quest chains is still quests.
But "dynamic" events are more to convey the intention behind them, not an accurate description of the events themselves, they aren't any more dynamic than a quest, you either kill off the centaurs or you don't. It's still a scripted pass/fail. It is just presented in a way that is more immersive for some people.
Maybe we have a different idea of pass/fail. If you fail to push back the centaurs, they can set up a fort -- which provides content to push them out. If you successfully push back the centaurs, then the city is saved and new merchants may become availabe, etc.
To me that's not pass/fail.
I think you are both right to an extent. The quests are indeed either pas/fail, BUT they have further reaching consequences then just abandoning the quest and retaking it. The dynamic events enter a different cycle based on the passing/failing of the event which definitely makes the game more immersive and could make for some pretty epic dynamic event cycles.
There is no going forward with normal quests. You either complete it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't move forward and you must try again. Here the "failure" is another way to go forward. One can only guess if there is always just two outcomes and one can only guess if they are always between failure and success.
Since scripted content is fairly rare these days I welcome every chance to get it. Instances and scripted content are nearly always the best PvE content in a MMORPG.
EDIT: There was also mention about dynamic quest chains affecting each other. Like in the case of the Shatterer, another quest-chain must be in a specific state in order to use the siege engines against the dragon. So there are some twists.
I skate to where the puck is going to be, not where it has been -Wayne Gretzky
Nothing will force blizzard to shut down wow. However that is not saying much considering Ultima Online is still ongoing. If you look at it from the aspect that one day a game could take over as the MMO with the most players, then I would have to say its innevitable even if its years down the road and is a game made by blizzard (I dont think this will be the case but it is possible).