Anet is doing everything they can to pull in as many players as possible without having to rely on stealing players from WoW or other sub based MMO's.
Look at some of the things they've done and I'll show why I feel they did it.
1)No sub fee: Simply put players won't feel like they need to give up their sub in order to play GW2.
2)No holy trinity: Providing a very different gameplay experience from traditional sub based holy trinity games.
3)Downed state: The type of fast paced action gameplay is very different from most MMO's and almost seems like its trying to bridge the MMO-FPS gap to take some of those players.
4)PvP focus: GW2 is catering to PvP much more than most MMO's especially at launch which I believe is to bring in the PvP that probably gave up on most MMO's.
In my opinion the last thing Anet is trying to do is rely on stealing players from traditional MMO's to find it's playerbase. This will allow GW2 to become a great supplementary game for many MMO players that play it in conjunction with their favorite sub based MMO. I think a lot of players will keep their sub based MMO and play GW2 and continue buying the expansions/DLC in lieu of buying the next best WoW clone every 6 months that is trying to copy WoW and failing because WoW has a 6 year headstart.
This. Pretty much the case of things I do believe.
+2
Every feture of an mmo comign otu you hear about GW2 has and is trying to implement. Literally, minus large character ability customization (Rift, and the others thsi exists in).
Think about it, Anet did a great job saying we watn thsi game to look like this xxx (big picture) ok now what cool ideas can we fit into it (and some how their design team stuffed it full of every new/ good old idea). I mean they are possibly missing some but i am truely amazed by the scope of GW2 and its fetures.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
But "dynamic" events are more to convey the intention behind them, not an accurate description of the events themselves, they aren't any more dynamic than a quest, you either kill off the centaurs or you don't. It's still a scripted pass/fail. It is just presented in a way that is more immersive for some people.
There is no going forward with normal quests. You either complete it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't move forward and you must try again. Here the "failure" is another way to go forward. One can only guess if there is always just two outcomes and one can only guess if they are always between failure and success.
Since scripted content is fairly rare these days I welcome every chance to get it. Instances and scripted content are nearly always the best PvE content in a MMORPG.
EDIT: There was also mention about dynamic quest chains affecting each other. Like in the case of the Shatterer, another quest-chain must be in a specific state in order to use the siege engines against the dragon. So there are some twists.
Also we have heard that some quests/dungeons will have 3 or more different ways to "succeed". So from what we have heared so far its more than just pass/fail (while many may be pass fail). I also believe i heared somethign about multiple quests effecting other quests so this outcoem here and that out come can equal 2-4 different results.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
But "dynamic" events are more to convey the intention behind them, not an accurate description of the events themselves, they aren't any more dynamic than a quest, you either kill off the centaurs or you don't. It's still a scripted pass/fail. It is just presented in a way that is more immersive for some people.
There is no going forward with normal quests. You either complete it, or you don't. If you don't, you can't move forward and you must try again. Here the "failure" is another way to go forward. One can only guess if there is always just two outcomes and one can only guess if they are always between failure and success.
Since scripted content is fairly rare these days I welcome every chance to get it. Instances and scripted content are nearly always the best PvE content in a MMORPG.
EDIT: There was also mention about dynamic quest chains affecting each other. Like in the case of the Shatterer, another quest-chain must be in a specific state in order to use the siege engines against the dragon. So there are some twists.
Also we have heard that some quests/dungeons will have 3 or more different ways to "succeed". So from what we have heared so far its more than just pass/fail (while many may be pass fail). I also believe i heared somethign about multiple quests effecting other quests so this outcoem here and that out come can equal 2-4 different results.
The most basic aspect of this may be pass/fail (cant say if there are ones with 3 or more possible outcomes no one has bridged this exact detail to my knowledge), but I do know according to Anet the pass/fail combination of several quests can effect no only the content avalible to the current player, but also possibly trigger world events that can alter the state of the game world. This has great potential to be a new top bar in many different aspects of the MMO world (similar to the way that wow raised several bars for the MMO world).
What people don't realize is that GW2's dynamic events are scripted as well, and from what i've seen it's always just pass/fail. There aren't many variations of passing that lead to different outcomes, nor are there many.
That's pretty much exactly the opposite of what they've said. From the official site:
"Where other multi-player quest systems were pass or fail - our dynamic events evolve in response to player interaction and the outcomes they achieve. Where previous systems reset and start again and really don't change the world, dynamic events chain and cascade across a zone and leave persistent effects in the game world after the event has ended."
That said, no, GW2 will not be the next WoW. Nor do I want it to be.
Ok I am talking about what i've seen from playing the demo, not what anet tells you.
It is pass/fail as in ok you either fight the centaurs back or you don't, there is no ultimate end result to which the event is no longer playable, as you can always come back and do more with it whether you pass or fail, but it is still just pass or fail, just segmented into events that chain and are cyclical in nature.
Maybe we have a different idea of pass/fail. If you fail to push back the centaurs, they can set up a fort -- which provides content to push them out. If you successfully push back the centaurs, then the city is saved and new merchants may become availabe, etc.
To me that's not pass/fail.
It's pass/fail in the form of a chain of events, sort of like a chain quest.
You pass one part you go onto the next, you fail, and you have to go back and try to pass.
When I analyze games I look at them from a very blunt and unbiased view. I don't get giddy about cutting down some centaurs, I look at the game design, the mechanics involved, and what it is trying to accomplish.
Dynamic events are visually and immersively upgrades to the very archaic quest style of "oh kill 10 rats that are sitting in a small field on static spawns" but that isn't all that games like WOW offer these days. They have "quests" that could be considered dynamic events, they just don't fully explore the backwards progression of such "quests".
For example in WoTLK in Ice crown, as you do more quests and go through the story, the zone itself starts to change, making use of blizzard's phasing technology. That evil outpost gets retaken and made into a knights of the ebon hold flightpoint... etc etc.
I may be wrong but from what ive read about gw 2 dungeons. They change for u in story mode if u beat the boss. U go back after story mode to explorer mode and that boss is now gone for that dungeon. They people in dungeon are planning a rebellion. Sounds like phasing to me.
Sure the dungeon changes for those that have beat it already but since in story mode that boss will still be there for the people who havent done story mode just sounds like story mode is one big phasing as compared to explorer mode where everything is phased.
Not sure if this is just for dungeons is why i said i could be wrong but for dungeons i know its how it works. Also the dynamic events dont always happen. They will be on a timer similar to wows elemental invasion thing. So if u dont get to the area when the first event happens u miss it.
Or u have tow ait for it to reset to do it. Not sure if u havent done the dynamic event yourself if world changes or not. I know in rifts if the people who come upon a rift dont stop it it changes the world till the next rift appears.
So gw 2 next wow i doubt it. wow was a cultural phenomenon. It hit at the right time and went viral faster then anyone expected. Could this happen tto gw 2 yes will it i dont know. Until someone beats wow wow is still the next wow.
actually it is not phasing it is a completly different storiy with different paths that changes dynamicly, supposedly anyways. You have to play the story mode to unlock the Explorer version. only people who have beat the story mode can group up for the alternate dungeon. Only parts I am aware that use some sort of phasing technology is everything tied to your personal story.
I agree with you. The Dynamic Events are just pass or fail. However, it was implemented well enough to provide and immersive feel. It's outcomes would actually make you feel something happened. You can keep dreaming that WoW does that well enough.
As for not you not being biased.... that's just --------. If you think GW2 sucks and WoW can do everything better, go play WoW and wait for them to implement those features. I'm sure, from the way you think of Blizzard, it will be done by tomorrow.
actually it is not phasing it is a completly different storiy with different paths that changes dynamicly, supposedly anyways. You have to play the story mode to unlock the Explorer version. only people who have beat the story mode can group up for the alternate dungeon. Only parts I am aware that use some sort of phasing technology is everything tied to your personal story.
by my understanding its not phase. if a dragon has laid waste to a town that you wanted to pick up quests in then they arent there. its not that the game changes for your personal story as you progress through the game. its that the world changes for everyone and that effects the personal story that your character goes through. you compare it to WoW where you do quests and it changes the world for your character, but every character in wow has there own version of this phasing. Instead consider that the world is constantly changing for everyone and this effects the questing system itself. what if you were to do a quest chain but an npc that you were going to get your next quest from is dead and this opens up getting revenge for him which in turns gives you a completely new quest chain to do that would not have been open if the npc was alive (and at an unknown number of points this system can change your quests and make a for more unique personal story for that character). the point of it being DYNAMIC is that it changes without you and you have to get in the world and change with it. No more creating ults and just zombie leveling through the EXACT same quests you did before, instead consider a world where needs are created and removed deciding what quests are available for you to do.
Ok so I know that this is probably a bit over dramatic as they are trying to sell there game, but this is exactly what you can quote them for when they say there world is dynamic:
"Enter the living world of Guild Wars 2 - filled with thousands of dynamic events that ebb and flow through the course of your adventures. One day there may be a thriving village filled with vendors and townspeople, the next day that village may be a smoking ruin overrun by centaurs.
Dynamic events evolve and cascade across the world in response to how you, the player, interact with them, leaving persistent effects in the game world. Will you save that village or let it burn? The choice rests with you and your fellow players.
The Dynamic Event system in Guild Wars 2 is built to be scalable and encourage impromptu group playwhere players are naturally cooperating together and not worried about encroaching on each other. The more the merrier!"
Most of you sound as though you have never read this (and this isnt everything that is attributed to there dynamic world.... I suggest that you watch the manifesto video on the guildwars2.com main page.) Now I am not saying that it will turn out changing the world, but what I am reading from ANET is honestly the only thing I am able to go on and it sounds to me as though this game has potential.
combat as described from guildwars2.com:
"Guild Wars 2 combat is visceral, dynamic, and visually impressive.
Maneuver around an opponent to strike for maximum damage or send them flying through the air. Create giant crushing stone hands, turn into a massive tornado, or summon a flock of vicious birds of prey to swarm your enemies.
Turn the tide of battle with improvised tactics. Combine attacks from different professions for extra damage, like shooting arrows through a flaming wall to create a barrage of flaming projectiles, or sending pets through a cloud of poison so they spread the toxin among the enemy.
Search your surroundings for powerful environmental weapons. In the hands of a skilled elementalist, a simple boulder can be turned into a meteor storm. Save the day by taking control of a siege weapon on the battlefield!
The skill system is easy to learn and rewarding to master. In Guild Wars 2, you start with a strong base set of skills, but the game allows for deep player customization. You get your base skills from the weapons you wield and then customize your skill-set with racial skills, healing skills, profession skills, and even a devastating elite skill."
also very intresting in the videos and such espacially the way that people can combine varies skills in group tactics to come up with interesting abilities.
I hope this is enough to convince people to actually read what they have to say and not truly judge it until it is released and you have real first hand experience (demos are very small unfinished examples so I dont count them either I am holding my final judgement till I try it myself). If you are interested in the game you should do some research, and if you arent interested then why are you so worried about other people likeing the game?
It's pass/fail in the form of a chain of events, sort of like a chain quest.
You pass one part you go onto the next, you fail, and you have to go back and try to pass.
When I analyze games I look at them from a very blunt and unbiased view. I don't get giddy about cutting down some centaurs, I look at the game design, the mechanics involved, and what it is trying to accomplish.
Dynamic events are visually and immersively upgrades to the very archaic quest style of "oh kill 10 rats that are sitting in a small field on static spawns" but that isn't all that games like WOW offer these days. They have "quests" that could be considered dynamic events, they just don't fully explore the backwards progression of such "quests".
For example in WoTLK in Ice crown, as you do more quests and go through the story, the zone itself starts to change, making use of blizzard's phasing technology. That evil outpost gets retaken and made into a knights of the ebon hold flightpoint... etc etc.
Everyone who's truly objective and in possession of a modicum of intelligent perception would realise the blatant differences between archaic quests as in WoW including the phasic changes and the Dynamic Events in GW2.
DE's aren't merely a visual change that only you see as in phasing, neither do they split the players into separate groups based upon at which stage they are from a quest. The Dynamic Events have a concrete, persistent effect on the game world, there for everyone to see and participate in.
Besides that, they're world events, affecting the world even without any players initiating the event, unlike quests that need to be initiated by players and that can only go one way, you either move forward, finishing the quest, or you leave the quest be.
As was already said, the events have a cascading effect that can go several ways, depending upon the result, with the results having a consequence in follow-up events.
Furthermore, separate event chains will influence each other.
A persistent effect on the game world itself there for everybody to witness, multiple paths and follow up effects on other events, events happening and changing the game world even without player interference, and events crossing and influencing eachother, and that on the scale of the entier ingame world: it's obvious to everyone who has thorough knowledge with more than just a few MMORPG's and who isn't biased that there are clear cut differences between GW2's DE mechanics and quest mechanics as we've seen them up till now.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
It's pass/fail in the form of a chain of events, sort of like a chain quest.
You pass one part you go onto the next, you fail, and you have to go back and try to pass.
When I analyze games I look at them from a very blunt and unbiased view. I don't get giddy about cutting down some centaurs, I look at the game design, the mechanics involved, and what it is trying to accomplish.
Dynamic events are visually and immersively upgrades to the very archaic quest style of "oh kill 10 rats that are sitting in a small field on static spawns" but that isn't all that games like WOW offer these days. They have "quests" that could be considered dynamic events, they just don't fully explore the backwards progression of such "quests".
For example in WoTLK in Ice crown, as you do more quests and go through the story, the zone itself starts to change, making use of blizzard's phasing technology. That evil outpost gets retaken and made into a knights of the ebon hold flightpoint... etc etc.
Everyone who's truly objective and in possession of a modicum of intelligent perception would realise the blatant differences between archaic quests as in WoW including the phasic changes and the Dynamic Events in GW2.
DE's aren't merely a visual change that only you see as in phasing, neither do they split the players into separate groups based upon at which stage they are from a quest. The Dynamic Events have a concrete, persistent effect on the game world, there for everyone to see and participate in.
Besides that, they're world events, affecting the world even without any players initiating the event, unlike quests that need to be initiated by players and that can only go one way, you either move forward, finishing the quest, or you leave the quest be.
As was already said, the events have a cascading effect that can go several ways, depending upon the result, with the results having a consequence in follow-up events.
Furthermore, separate event chains will influence each other.
A persistent effect on the game world itself there for everybody to witness, multiple paths and follow up effects on other events, events happening and changing the game world even without player interference, and events crossing and influencing eachother, and that on the scale of the entier ingame world: it's obvious to everyone who has thorough knowledge with more than just a few MMORPG's and who isn't biased that there are clear cut differences between GW2's DE mechanics and quest mechanics as we've seen them up till now.
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
I'm sorry, but did you seriously believe or expect that the dynamic events were non-scripted? How long have you been playing MMORPG's? The issue wasn't that they were scripted vs non-scripted, the issue was that those events were not static like quests have been since ages in MMO games. They can have different results, and different results lead to different follow up events.
And you're right, objectivity has nothing to do with having a skewed bias for or against GW2, it's looking at facts with a clear view.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
I'm sorry, but did you seriously believe or expect that the dynamic events were non-scripted? How long have you been playing MMORPG's? The issue wasn't that they were scripted vs non-scripted, the issue was that those events were not static like quests have been since ages in MMO games. They can have different results, and different results lead to different follow up events.
And you're right, objectivity has nothing to do with having a skewed bias for or against GW2, it's looking at facts with a clear view.
No one believed they wouldn't be scripted, it's about time people realize that they are indeed pass/fail though.
Some people seem to struggle with that concept because they let their biases get the best of them.
I mean the dynamic events sorta play out like ice crown does in WoTLK, just that there is no backwards progression and they cascade off each other a bit, but the trade-off is that they are cyclical so going past an area of the world at different times may result in experience redundant events depending which part of the cycle you have experienced before.
Running into events that have reset to a point where you did them before will probably feel a lot like repeatable quests in other MMOs. I hope that I won't have to collect some harpy glands many times while playing.
Running into events that have reset to a point where you did them before will probably feel a lot like repeatable quests in other MMOs. I hope that I won't have to collect some harpy glands many times while playing.
Ah yes, good one, you mentioned another good point: in contrast to normal quests, you can actually participate again in every stage an event location is in, even if you've missed some of these stages the times before you went through that area.
Usually when you've gone through an area where you've done all the quests, that's it. Nothing to be done there anymore, nothing happening at that area anymore, what you see is as it is. In GW2 you'll be able to help change an area by doing the events whenever you like, and the dynamic nature pretty much guarantees that an area is never fully the same as the last time you left it.
Good point, thanks for bringing that up again, I'll keep it in mind for a next time
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Except... Pass/Fail is incorrect. Fail branches out into new content I.E. scripted event and Pass goes into another direction. It isn't the "Mechanics of the issue" that people are excited about. It's the fact that even after a player passes the farm where the event is happening, they can come back later and something different will be going on. No other game can make that claim.
In fact, since you have a terrible habit of picking and choosing what you want to hear, I'll do you one better. Even given the fact that eventually, you are absolutely positively bound to do the same event in the same place without trying to be present for that event in particular...
It doesn't change the fact that there are certain events that are worth based on fun factor in every game I have spent time in, that I would want to do a second, third and fourth time but cannot without making a new character. GW2 effectively puts the chance in the game that regardless of what quest it is that you like or dislike, you can choose to do it either a hundred times - or none by just walking away. DE's are part of a choice, and choice is what gamers have demanded - choice is what GW2 allegedly offers.
Cyclical events may to you, be mechanically boring but to 9/10 people they sound like a blast. However, I am sure you will find some way to pad your ego out of this post, effectively insulting me in the process because you are incapable of holding an objective conversation.
Good day to you sir.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Except... Pass/Fail is incorrect. Fail branches out into new content I.E. scripted event and Pass goes into another direction. It isn't the "Mechanics of the issue" that people are excited about. It's the fact that even after a player passes the farm where the event is happening, they can come back later and something different will be going on. No other game can make that claim.
In fact, since you have a terrible habit of picking and choosing what you want to hear, I'll do you one better. Even given the fact that eventually, you are absolutely positively bound to do the same event in the same place without trying to be present for that event in particular...
It doesn't change the fact that there are certain events that are worth based on fun factor in every game I have spent time in, that I would want to do a second, third and fourth time but cannot without making a new character. GW2 effectively puts the chance in the game that regardless of what quest it is that you like or dislike, you can choose to do it either a hundred times - or none by just walking away. DE's are part of a choice, and choice is what gamers have demanded - choice is what GW2 allegedly offers.
Cyclical events may to you, be mechanically boring but to 9/10 people they sound like a blast. However, I am sure you will find some way to pad your ego out of this post, effectively insulting me in the process because you are incapable of holding an objective conversation.
Good day to you sir.
Looks like you aren't grasping the pass/fail mechanic at play. You pass or fail and the next chapter in the event takes place, then you can pass/fail that and then a chapter takes place... etc etc...
It is pass/fail. If you were supposed to defend an outpost from centaurs and they take over it and the outpost is razed. It is failing that event, and then the next chapter in the dynamic quest will begin.
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
I'm sorry, but did you seriously believe or expect that the dynamic events were non-scripted? How long have you been playing MMORPG's? The issue wasn't that they were scripted vs non-scripted, the issue was that those events were not static like quests have been since ages in MMO games. They can have different results, and different results lead to different follow up events.
And you're right, objectivity has nothing to do with having a skewed bias for or against GW2, it's looking at facts with a clear view.
No one believed they wouldn't be scripted, it's about time people realize that they are indeed pass/fail though.
Some people seem to struggle with that concept because they let their biases get the best of them.
I mean the dynamic events sorta play out like ice crown does in WoTLK, just that there is no backwards progression and they cascade off each other a bit, but the trade-off is that they are cyclical so going past an area of the world at different times may result in experience redundant events depending which part of the cycle you have experienced before.
Running into events that have reset to a point where you did them before will probably feel a lot like repeatable quests in other MMOs. I hope that I won't have to collect some harpy glands many times while playing.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
I'm sorry, but did you seriously believe or expect that the dynamic events were non-scripted? How long have you been playing MMORPG's? The issue wasn't that they were scripted vs non-scripted, the issue was that those events were not static like quests have been since ages in MMO games. They can have different results, and different results lead to different follow up events.
And you're right, objectivity has nothing to do with having a skewed bias for or against GW2, it's looking at facts with a clear view.
No one believed they wouldn't be scripted, it's about time people realize that they are indeed pass/fail though.
Some people seem to struggle with that concept because they let their biases get the best of them.
I mean the dynamic events sorta play out like ice crown does in WoTLK, just that there is no backwards progression and they cascade off each other a bit, but the trade-off is that they are cyclical so going past an area of the world at different times may result in experience redundant events depending which part of the cycle you have experienced before.
Running into events that have reset to a point where you did them before will probably feel a lot like repeatable quests in other MMOs. I hope that I won't have to collect some harpy glands many times while playing.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
A timer is still pass/fail, you either get it to a stage where it does 1 thing, or you don't, and it does something else.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
Quests don't necessarily have to be binary either. It's kind of ironic that you would think that they would have to be "almost exclusively binary". Just because some games have a majority of quests that have 2 outcomes, it doesn't mean it's not possible to have more. And It doesn't mean that these dynamic events are more open ended to the idea of multiple outcomes.
When it comes to their dynamic system, I'm willing to bet that yes, indeed, there will be a binary type of progression. It will be a long string of if/then statements that meet up together at common points every once in a while (likely pretty often). It won't be this mind blowing change in complex storytelling that it's being hyped up to be.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
Quests don't necessarily have to be binary either. It's kind of ironic that you would think that they would have to be "almost exclusively binary". Just because some games have a majority of quests that have 2 outcomes, it doesn't mean it's not possible to have more. And It doesn't mean that these dynamic events are more open ended to the idea of multiple outcomes.
When it comes to their dynamic system, I'm willing to bet that yes, indeed, there will be a binary type of progression. It will be a long string of if/then statements that meet up together at common points every once in a while (likely pretty often). It won't be this mind blowing change in complex storytelling that it's being hyped up to be.
The fact they are doing dynamic events instead of the traditional questing, which to be quite frank, bores me to high hell.. Is a great thing, they have braved the waters and will be setting sail with a 5 star cruise vessel. Will GW 2 be the next WoW? Probably not, however if WoW is the big brother GW 2 is the cooler younger brother with not so much experience in life, but knows how to have fun. And that my friends is why im excited about GW 2, because its different and is going to be FUN. I tried WoW just made me go and I quote '' 'bleh' whats the big deal'' The great thing about GW2 is that it's a one time purchase, so techinqually speaking you could buy this and the odd expansion while subbing, i just dont like sub games especially wow.. in this aspect due to its lack of ocntent updates, they make you buy the game then make you pay..again... to play it X_X HUH?? Still GW2 might take a meaty nibble out of WoW but it wont bring it to its knee's I dont give WoW long though maybe another 2 3 years max before it dies/ fizzles away it is getting a bit out dated.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
Quests don't necessarily have to be binary either. It's kind of ironic that you would think that they would have to be "almost exclusively binary". Just because some games have a majority of quests that have 2 outcomes, it doesn't mean it's not possible to have more. And It doesn't mean that these dynamic events are more open ended to the idea of multiple outcomes.
When it comes to their dynamic system, I'm willing to bet that yes, indeed, there will be a binary type of progression. It will be a long string of if/then statements that meet up together at common points every once in a while (likely pretty often). It won't be this mind blowing change in complex storytelling that it's being hyped up to be.
I know that quests do not have to be binary, I was just emphasizing that thegreat majority of existing examples are pass/fail and a number of examples are tertiary outcomes, while very few, if any, have multiple outcomes based on an outcome chart.
The DE's may not be more open to multiple outcomes, but they are not limited to a binary progression either. As I said, we don't know one way or another. It's just one more thing that we will have to wait an see for ourselves once a beta happens, or the game goes live.
EDIT: yeah, I highly doubt they will put much story into the DEs. They might have gameplay backgroud info, but only enough for the event to make sense; e.g. just enough info for players to understand that the centuars are attacking (again?) and that we should probably do something to help out. I wouldn't expect lore-setting story-telling happen in an event that I might miss because I logged out for the night. I expect the story to take the form of text-box driven standard quests, or cut-scenes, or solo quests--somewhere where the plot can develop at an appropriate pace, not the chaos that we saw in the demo events.
There is no "Next WoW" and there never will be. GW2 will be popular and have it's own following, but it will never be the next wow. WoW is a unique experience. Even if any MMO (and it will happen) over time tops WoW it is not a WoW Killer or the Next WoW, it is just a new experience.
The above statement overuses the word "WoW" read at your own risk.
Comments
+2
Every feture of an mmo comign otu you hear about GW2 has and is trying to implement. Literally, minus large character ability customization (Rift, and the others thsi exists in).
Think about it, Anet did a great job saying we watn thsi game to look like this xxx (big picture) ok now what cool ideas can we fit into it (and some how their design team stuffed it full of every new/ good old idea). I mean they are possibly missing some but i am truely amazed by the scope of GW2 and its fetures.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
Also we have heard that some quests/dungeons will have 3 or more different ways to "succeed". So from what we have heared so far its more than just pass/fail (while many may be pass fail). I also believe i heared somethign about multiple quests effecting other quests so this outcoem here and that out come can equal 2-4 different results.
"Society in every state is a blessing, but government even in its best state is but a necessary evil; in its worst state an intolerable one ..." - Thomas Paine
The most basic aspect of this may be pass/fail (cant say if there are ones with 3 or more possible outcomes no one has bridged this exact detail to my knowledge), but I do know according to Anet the pass/fail combination of several quests can effect no only the content avalible to the current player, but also possibly trigger world events that can alter the state of the game world. This has great potential to be a new top bar in many different aspects of the MMO world (similar to the way that wow raised several bars for the MMO world).
never! WoW will have tauren paladins..holy cow!!
It's pass/fail in the form of a chain of events, sort of like a chain quest.
You pass one part you go onto the next, you fail, and you have to go back and try to pass.
When I analyze games I look at them from a very blunt and unbiased view. I don't get giddy about cutting down some centaurs, I look at the game design, the mechanics involved, and what it is trying to accomplish.
Dynamic events are visually and immersively upgrades to the very archaic quest style of "oh kill 10 rats that are sitting in a small field on static spawns" but that isn't all that games like WOW offer these days. They have "quests" that could be considered dynamic events, they just don't fully explore the backwards progression of such "quests".
For example in WoTLK in Ice crown, as you do more quests and go through the story, the zone itself starts to change, making use of blizzard's phasing technology. That evil outpost gets retaken and made into a knights of the ebon hold flightpoint... etc etc.
I may be wrong but from what ive read about gw 2 dungeons. They change for u in story mode if u beat the boss. U go back after story mode to explorer mode and that boss is now gone for that dungeon. They people in dungeon are planning a rebellion. Sounds like phasing to me.
Sure the dungeon changes for those that have beat it already but since in story mode that boss will still be there for the people who havent done story mode just sounds like story mode is one big phasing as compared to explorer mode where everything is phased.
Not sure if this is just for dungeons is why i said i could be wrong but for dungeons i know its how it works. Also the dynamic events dont always happen. They will be on a timer similar to wows elemental invasion thing. So if u dont get to the area when the first event happens u miss it.
Or u have tow ait for it to reset to do it. Not sure if u havent done the dynamic event yourself if world changes or not. I know in rifts if the people who come upon a rift dont stop it it changes the world till the next rift appears.
So gw 2 next wow i doubt it. wow was a cultural phenomenon. It hit at the right time and went viral faster then anyone expected. Could this happen tto gw 2 yes will it i dont know. Until someone beats wow wow is still the next wow.
actually it is not phasing it is a completly different storiy with different paths that changes dynamicly, supposedly anyways. You have to play the story mode to unlock the Explorer version. only people who have beat the story mode can group up for the alternate dungeon. Only parts I am aware that use some sort of phasing technology is everything tied to your personal story.
@RobertDinh
I agree with you. The Dynamic Events are just pass or fail. However, it was implemented well enough to provide and immersive feel. It's outcomes would actually make you feel something happened. You can keep dreaming that WoW does that well enough.
As for not you not being biased.... that's just --------. If you think GW2 sucks and WoW can do everything better, go play WoW and wait for them to implement those features. I'm sure, from the way you think of Blizzard, it will be done by tomorrow.
by my understanding its not phase. if a dragon has laid waste to a town that you wanted to pick up quests in then they arent there. its not that the game changes for your personal story as you progress through the game. its that the world changes for everyone and that effects the personal story that your character goes through. you compare it to WoW where you do quests and it changes the world for your character, but every character in wow has there own version of this phasing. Instead consider that the world is constantly changing for everyone and this effects the questing system itself. what if you were to do a quest chain but an npc that you were going to get your next quest from is dead and this opens up getting revenge for him which in turns gives you a completely new quest chain to do that would not have been open if the npc was alive (and at an unknown number of points this system can change your quests and make a for more unique personal story for that character). the point of it being DYNAMIC is that it changes without you and you have to get in the world and change with it. No more creating ults and just zombie leveling through the EXACT same quests you did before, instead consider a world where needs are created and removed deciding what quests are available for you to do.
Ok so I know that this is probably a bit over dramatic as they are trying to sell there game, but this is exactly what you can quote them for when they say there world is dynamic:
"Enter the living world of Guild Wars 2 - filled with thousands of dynamic events that ebb and flow through the course of your adventures. One day there may be a thriving village filled with vendors and townspeople, the next day that village may be a smoking ruin overrun by centaurs.
Dynamic events evolve and cascade across the world in response to how you, the player, interact with them, leaving persistent effects in the game world. Will you save that village or let it burn? The choice rests with you and your fellow players.
The Dynamic Event system in Guild Wars 2 is built to be scalable and encourage impromptu group playwhere players are naturally cooperating together and not worried about encroaching on each other. The more the merrier!"
Most of you sound as though you have never read this (and this isnt everything that is attributed to there dynamic world.... I suggest that you watch the manifesto video on the guildwars2.com main page.) Now I am not saying that it will turn out changing the world, but what I am reading from ANET is honestly the only thing I am able to go on and it sounds to me as though this game has potential.
combat as described from guildwars2.com:
"Guild Wars 2 combat is visceral, dynamic, and visually impressive.
Maneuver around an opponent to strike for maximum damage or send them flying through the air. Create giant crushing stone hands, turn into a massive tornado, or summon a flock of vicious birds of prey to swarm your enemies.
Turn the tide of battle with improvised tactics. Combine attacks from different professions for extra damage, like shooting arrows through a flaming wall to create a barrage of flaming projectiles, or sending pets through a cloud of poison so they spread the toxin among the enemy.
Search your surroundings for powerful environmental weapons. In the hands of a skilled elementalist, a simple boulder can be turned into a meteor storm. Save the day by taking control of a siege weapon on the battlefield!
The skill system is easy to learn and rewarding to master. In Guild Wars 2, you start with a strong base set of skills, but the game allows for deep player customization. You get your base skills from the weapons you wield and then customize your skill-set with racial skills, healing skills, profession skills, and even a devastating elite skill."
also very intresting in the videos and such espacially the way that people can combine varies skills in group tactics to come up with interesting abilities.
I hope this is enough to convince people to actually read what they have to say and not truly judge it until it is released and you have real first hand experience (demos are very small unfinished examples so I dont count them either I am holding my final judgement till I try it myself). If you are interested in the game you should do some research, and if you arent interested then why are you so worried about other people likeing the game?
Everyone who's truly objective and in possession of a modicum of intelligent perception would realise the blatant differences between archaic quests as in WoW including the phasic changes and the Dynamic Events in GW2.
DE's aren't merely a visual change that only you see as in phasing, neither do they split the players into separate groups based upon at which stage they are from a quest. The Dynamic Events have a concrete, persistent effect on the game world, there for everyone to see and participate in.
Besides that, they're world events, affecting the world even without any players initiating the event, unlike quests that need to be initiated by players and that can only go one way, you either move forward, finishing the quest, or you leave the quest be.
As was already said, the events have a cascading effect that can go several ways, depending upon the result, with the results having a consequence in follow-up events.
Furthermore, separate event chains will influence each other.
A persistent effect on the game world itself there for everybody to witness, multiple paths and follow up effects on other events, events happening and changing the game world even without player interference, and events crossing and influencing eachother, and that on the scale of the entier ingame world: it's obvious to everyone who has thorough knowledge with more than just a few MMORPG's and who isn't biased that there are clear cut differences between GW2's DE mechanics and quest mechanics as we've seen them up till now.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
You clearly can't see what dynamic events are from a mechanical point of view.
They can cascade, but that is still all scripted, and is still pass/fail at every point.
The dynamic events will not create any reactions that anet themselves did not script as a possible path for the event to take.
And sorry, basically you think anyone that is objective will have a skewed bias towards gw2, it doesn't work that way.
I'm sorry, but did you seriously believe or expect that the dynamic events were non-scripted? How long have you been playing MMORPG's? The issue wasn't that they were scripted vs non-scripted, the issue was that those events were not static like quests have been since ages in MMO games. They can have different results, and different results lead to different follow up events.
And you're right, objectivity has nothing to do with having a skewed bias for or against GW2, it's looking at facts with a clear view.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
No one believed they wouldn't be scripted, it's about time people realize that they are indeed pass/fail though.
Some people seem to struggle with that concept because they let their biases get the best of them.
I mean the dynamic events sorta play out like ice crown does in WoTLK, just that there is no backwards progression and they cascade off each other a bit, but the trade-off is that they are cyclical so going past an area of the world at different times may result in experience redundant events depending which part of the cycle you have experienced before.
Running into events that have reset to a point where you did them before will probably feel a lot like repeatable quests in other MMOs. I hope that I won't have to collect some harpy glands many times while playing.
Ah yes, good one, you mentioned another good point: in contrast to normal quests, you can actually participate again in every stage an event location is in, even if you've missed some of these stages the times before you went through that area.
Usually when you've gone through an area where you've done all the quests, that's it. Nothing to be done there anymore, nothing happening at that area anymore, what you see is as it is. In GW2 you'll be able to help change an area by doing the events whenever you like, and the dynamic nature pretty much guarantees that an area is never fully the same as the last time you left it.
Good point, thanks for bringing that up again, I'll keep it in mind for a next time
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Except... Pass/Fail is incorrect. Fail branches out into new content I.E. scripted event and Pass goes into another direction. It isn't the "Mechanics of the issue" that people are excited about. It's the fact that even after a player passes the farm where the event is happening, they can come back later and something different will be going on. No other game can make that claim.
In fact, since you have a terrible habit of picking and choosing what you want to hear, I'll do you one better. Even given the fact that eventually, you are absolutely positively bound to do the same event in the same place without trying to be present for that event in particular...
It doesn't change the fact that there are certain events that are worth based on fun factor in every game I have spent time in, that I would want to do a second, third and fourth time but cannot without making a new character. GW2 effectively puts the chance in the game that regardless of what quest it is that you like or dislike, you can choose to do it either a hundred times - or none by just walking away. DE's are part of a choice, and choice is what gamers have demanded - choice is what GW2 allegedly offers.
Cyclical events may to you, be mechanically boring but to 9/10 people they sound like a blast. However, I am sure you will find some way to pad your ego out of this post, effectively insulting me in the process because you are incapable of holding an objective conversation.
Good day to you sir.
People think it's fun to pretend your a monster. Me I spend my life pretending I'm not. - Dexter Morgan
Fun topic. I loled ...
Looks like you aren't grasping the pass/fail mechanic at play. You pass or fail and the next chapter in the event takes place, then you can pass/fail that and then a chapter takes place... etc etc...
It is pass/fail. If you were supposed to defend an outpost from centaurs and they take over it and the outpost is razed. It is failing that event, and then the next chapter in the dynamic quest will begin.
pass/fail is awfully binary thinking... and here I thought we had come across fuzzy logic several decades ago.
We honestly do not know if all events are simply pass/fail. For all we know there may be events that have timers and depending on how far along in a series of tasks when the timer runs out determines the next event in the chain. Similarly, you could be defending a keep, but failing that, your next event has you evacuate the occupants, and the numer of saved people sets up the next event.
Thats the beauty of dynamic events; unlike quests which are almost exclusively binary, dynamic events don't necessarily have to be.
A timer is still pass/fail, you either get it to a stage where it does 1 thing, or you don't, and it does something else.
Quests don't necessarily have to be binary either. It's kind of ironic that you would think that they would have to be "almost exclusively binary". Just because some games have a majority of quests that have 2 outcomes, it doesn't mean it's not possible to have more. And It doesn't mean that these dynamic events are more open ended to the idea of multiple outcomes.
When it comes to their dynamic system, I'm willing to bet that yes, indeed, there will be a binary type of progression. It will be a long string of if/then statements that meet up together at common points every once in a while (likely pretty often). It won't be this mind blowing change in complex storytelling that it's being hyped up to be.
The fact they are doing dynamic events instead of the traditional questing, which to be quite frank, bores me to high hell.. Is a great thing, they have braved the waters and will be setting sail with a 5 star cruise vessel. Will GW 2 be the next WoW? Probably not, however if WoW is the big brother GW 2 is the cooler younger brother with not so much experience in life, but knows how to have fun. And that my friends is why im excited about GW 2, because its different and is going to be FUN. I tried WoW just made me go and I quote '' 'bleh' whats the big deal'' The great thing about GW2 is that it's a one time purchase, so techinqually speaking you could buy this and the odd expansion while subbing, i just dont like sub games especially wow.. in this aspect due to its lack of ocntent updates, they make you buy the game then make you pay..again... to play it X_X HUH?? Still GW2 might take a meaty nibble out of WoW but it wont bring it to its knee's
I dont give WoW long though maybe another 2 3 years max before it dies/ fizzles away it is getting a bit out dated.
I know that quests do not have to be binary, I was just emphasizing that thegreat majority of existing examples are pass/fail and a number of examples are tertiary outcomes, while very few, if any, have multiple outcomes based on an outcome chart.
The DE's may not be more open to multiple outcomes, but they are not limited to a binary progression either. As I said, we don't know one way or another. It's just one more thing that we will have to wait an see for ourselves once a beta happens, or the game goes live.
EDIT: yeah, I highly doubt they will put much story into the DEs. They might have gameplay backgroud info, but only enough for the event to make sense; e.g. just enough info for players to understand that the centuars are attacking (again?) and that we should probably do something to help out. I wouldn't expect lore-setting story-telling happen in an event that I might miss because I logged out for the night. I expect the story to take the form of text-box driven standard quests, or cut-scenes, or solo quests--somewhere where the plot can develop at an appropriate pace, not the chaos that we saw in the demo events.
He's saying something like this:
|---------------1 min--------------2 min---------------3 min----------------|
.......................Outcome 1.............................Outcome 2..................................Outcome 3
Outcome 1 - Save all the children and the orphanage stays in perfect condition.
Outcome 2 - Save all the children, but the orphanage gets burned down.
Outcome 3 - All the children die and the orphanage burns down.
There is no "Next WoW" and there never will be. GW2 will be popular and have it's own following, but it will never be the next wow. WoW is a unique experience. Even if any MMO (and it will happen) over time tops WoW it is not a WoW Killer or the Next WoW, it is just a new experience.
The above statement overuses the word "WoW" read at your own risk.