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Is Ultra-realism really the way to go?
merv808
Member UncommonPosts: 511
So, I'm sitting here looking over the screenshots for War of Angels, thoroughly impressed and I started thinking of how some would refer to the graphics as "cartoonish". I've seen people say this about many games, including one of my favorites (LotRO). I don't agree, I actually think these are some of the better looking games I've seen.
I guess the debate over graphics and whats possible will never die, Some are happy with MMO graphics as they are, while others long for that, "Ultra realistic" look.
I guess my question is: "Are ultra-realistic graphics really the way to go?"
Comments
Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
For those who can't let go of the embarresment at the fact that they are still just playing with "pixels" yes for the rest of the gameplaying world (the ones who can actually turn a profit) the answer is no.
but yeah, to call this game Fantastic is like calling Twilight the Godfather of vampire movies....
Short answer is no.
The most stunning games out there goes beyond realism with intensive colours and unnatural lightning. In reality the world is much more "grey".
As for cartoonish styled games or not I think it's highly dependant on indivual taste. Personally I find it highly dependant on the game aswell. I could never take a "cartoon" game seriously, it suits better for humorous settings.
Isn't MMOs all about escapism from reality? Using ultra-realistic graphics would somewhat take away part of that aspect. We want humanoid characters, but we don't humanoid characters that can just as well represent our real significant other in near every detail. A little cartoonism is, I think, required.
Besides, every kid's* dreamed of wanting to see that big ol' black tower by the edge of that particular cliff, with spider legs hanging out and a cackling professor standing at the top, hands on hips, who just made Frankenstein 2 in his warped laboratory. We ain't gonna be able to see it if we're going to go ultra realistic.
*every kid with a wild sense of adventure
Forums: The best real-time interactive MMORPG you'll ever be in.
In my opinion, no.
Part of the escapism for me is to live in a world that is not like the real world. I appreciate stylized designs and "unreal" visuals.
I want a mmorpg where people have gone through misery, have gone through school stuff and actually have had sex even. -sagil
So the choice is between... looking terrible now, or looking terrible later.
Almost no MMOs have GOOD stylized graphics. Wind Waker is a great ageless game, WoW doesn't match it in the slightest.
And games like Dark Age of Camelot, that haven't been updated since 2004 STILL look better than many MMOs, despite having realistic graphics.
Of course not. What'd even give you that idea?
Style has always trumped realism.
"What is truly revealing is his implication that believing something to be true is the same as it being true. [continue]" -John Oliver
DAOC has always had my favorite graphics for a fantasy mmorpg. I know I'm in the minority here though since I rarely see anyone agree other than one of my RL friends. Most people seem to dislike DAOC's graphics.
EDIT in response to posts below this: Yeah, I forgot to say that I kind of think DAOC has somewhat realistic graphics. Not too much, but just enough. That's part of the basis for my opinion above.
So the choice is between... looking terrible now, or looking terrible later.
Almost no MMOs have GOOD stylized graphics. Wind Waker is a great ageless game, WoW doesn't match it in the slightest.
And games like Dark Age of Camelot, that haven't been updated since 2004 STILL look better than many MMOs, despite having realistic graphics.
I wouldnt consider DAoC to have "realistic" graphics. So it would make sense that it looks good even now.Playing: Rift, LotRO
Waiting on: GW2, BP
DAoC at release had realistic graphics, but they watered it down over time. The legendary weapons looked more Asian than European, and many of the SI axes looked nothing like real weapons. I prefer realistic-looking graphics, but it all depends on the game and the setting.
LotRO has many great qualities, however I think many of their bows looks a bit weird, in lack of a better word. It is by far one of the better games out there.
It is how well you do it, not the art style in itself.
Of course everyone prefer some styles over others but that is just naturally.
I can play a game with almost any kind of styles, I like realistic armors and weapons to mention one thing but Final fantasy weapons wont turn me off if they are well enough done.
But I do have a problem with most Manga styled game, they use that as an excuse for really low polygon effects and bad animations (I blame Pokemon for all bad animations, the cartoon looks like it's lagging). I read manga myself but the games I tried with that kind of art style were so bad that they were unplayable.
AoC has fantastic graphics, but players havnt flocked to it. Also new releases with ultra-realism tend to alienate players who dont have top of the line computers.
In the end, Gameplay trumps graphics.
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
Eh, no I don't think it's the way to go. Not because it's a bad thing but because I don't think there is any real way to go when making games. If everyone went for ultra-realism than the industry would start to lose the art behind it that makes each title unique.
I am a very visual person, and for me a MMO or any game which really wants to hold my attention must look good. That does not necessarily mean photorealism. But for me everything stylized soon looks unrealistic and ultimately ugly. Not so much in itself, but because stylized usually leads to stereotypes.
Take WOW. All males are square-chested and square-faced guys, all females are "vixens". With the exception of male Blood Elves. And that is all WAY to stereotypical for me. What if I want to play a thin mal acrobatic human thief? What if I want to play a muscular and robust female warrior like a Valkyrie? Stylized usually takes all these decisions away from me in order to streamline me into a copy cat of everyone else. It just looks flat. See LOTRO, see WOW. Most ugly characters thinkable. When it comes to characters, stylized is a total no-go for me. I just hate it.
In landscape, a balance between stylized and realism CAN work, if really made well. But it takes CONSIDERABLY more artistic sense to make stylized landscape look cool and stunning. WOW landscape never did that for me, and tbh the ugly look of characters and landscape was MY personal reason Number One not to play WOW. I always felt sorta like in disneyland. LOTRO is the only stylized landscape that really worked, because they know a ton about design and placement. But every other stylized landscape I have EVER seen in a game sucked. At least for me. Most terrible example are the FUGLY characters and landscapes of Warhammer... terrible. Absolutely terrible.
So yes, I WANT REALISM. The more detail the better. If I have to "imagine things in my head", I can close my eyes and I don't have to pay a monthly fee, I can do THAT for free all day, thanks.
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
I think it all depends on how it is done. You don't see a lot of ultra-realistic cartoons, right? It's all about the visual style. Realism is harder to do... and even harder to do WELL.
good post
Realistic characters are more likely to invoke empathy from the audience. If you're a guy, and your avatar looks like a guy, maybe even looks like you, you instantly have some form of bond to that character.
However the success of games like PW, WoW and Fiesta easily prove that realism is not a necessity.
As for War of Angels...I dunno dude, I think you're just easily impressed.
"Forums aren't for intelligent discussion; they're for blow-hards with unwavering opinions."
So different are tastes. Au contraire mon Captan, I find EQ2 still playable, while Warhammer and WOW looked WAAY too fugly even at day one for me.
Generally there are two ways to make stylized characters, Western = Warhammer and Eastern = Anime. Both I do not like to see. It doesn't have to be Crysis level photorealism... tho Crysis was UBER cool. IMVPO. XD
People don't ask questions to get answers - they ask questions to show how smart they are. - Dogbert
Its a fantasy game.... how realistic is that?
Its all about atmosphere for me, and not about realisme.
The only thing that needs to be realistic is annimations.
Best MMO experiences : EQ(PvE), DAoC(PvP), WoW(total package) LOTRO (worldfeel) GW2 (Artstyle and animations and worlddesign) SWTOR (Story immersion) TSW (story) ESO (character advancement)
Not really I think. For a few reasons.
Ultra realistic vs "cartoony" graphics bump up against some major pitfalls. One of the biggest is it is much harder to make u ultra realistic graphics look "real enough" to not look disturbingly unatural to the human eye. The closer you get to actual realism, the more the smaller details hurt your impressions. Whereas it is much easier to make lower quality cartoony graphics seem or feel 'alive" and thus be a more immersive avatar or world. It is a weird paradox. WoW is one of the best examples of this. They use very low quality graphics and an extremely color saturated cartoony styling. But because they use superb art direction,a nd because the lower quality graphics are easier to manipulate and do subtle tricks with the cartoons feel much more alive than alot of their more hires high quality competitors. The less realistic the graphics are, the easier it is for your eye and brain to fill in the details to make it an acceptable living thing.
The other problem with ultra realistic graphics is maintenance and expansion. Very high quality graphics take an an oder of magnitude more man hours to create content for. That was the biggest failing of Asherons Call 2 (well aside from the bugs, the chatr server meltdown etc). AC1 users were used to a steady volume of monthly content additions. AC2 had only about a 10th of that and felt much smaller and less developed, largely because it took so much more art time to make or add anything.
The final thing as someone pointed out. Cartoony graphics just age better. Ultra realistic is always cutting edge so by next year it has lost its luster. Well designed cartoony maintains its believability longer and through more video card evolutions.
I just want to clear something up here. The old saying that realistic graphic don't age well is bull now... Its absolutly false imo.
It was true in the past because graphics weren't there yet. They were just trying to look real, but obviously couldn't due to graphic tech limitations.
Now they can make something that looks real & as such, it wont age that much, as some people seem to be stuck thinking. Sure, graphic will look even sharper in the future, but that doesn't change the fact that what we have today wont age that much because its already close enough to the real thing.
Ofc, I'm talking high end single palyer game graphic here. MMO's are limited by other tech than graphic & are another story for the time being.
edit: Just to be clear, I'm not talking about "Ultra-realism" (who needs that anyways?!), just simple realism... forget about that ultra nonsense.
I personally prefer the oldschool low-polygon 3d graphics, ala Anarchy Online. Too bad they will update the graphics of the game instead of the UI which would be much easier anyway.
beats ultra cartoony imo
Remember Tetris and minesweeper are still considered two of the most popular video games of all time
Torrential: DAOC (Pendragon)
Awned: World of Warcraft (Lothar)
Torren: Warhammer Online (Praag)
No. Really I hate "realistic" looking games, when an MMO is able to make human females look realistic, I'll be all for realistic being the way to go, till then unrealistic graphics are way better.
When I talk "realistic", I mean the animals and humans etc..., not the environment, the more realistic the environment is, the better.
-I want a Platformer MMO