Is that 32789 total players or do we need to multiply with some factor?
30K total users is rediculous no, even for FFXIV?
whats up with these "if it has less then a million users it fails!" crap?
Imho a community can be a succes with 25K + people loaded on 1 or 2 servers.....i realy do
I'm not saying that. Where did I say that?
Thing is I'm very surprised by these low numbers because FF has a very loyal following.
In regards to the community being a success with 25k, that is absolutely true. But we also need to look at the ecomic side of things. I don't know the development cost of FFXIV but I have a creepy suspicion that 25K might not cut it to get a return on investment fast enough. (I'm just assuming here).
I'm pretty sure those are PCU numbers (Peak Concurrent Users) or 'active players online' numbers, meaning measurements made of how many players were logged in playing. As an example: CCP mentioned a PCU of about 45k when it had 300-330k subs.
For a server, a number of players logged in at peak times of 1000-2000 is a well to high populated server, everything above 2k at peak times and a server is thriving to bursting. 500-1000 online at the same time generally feels like low to medium population.
Originally posted by GTwander
Less of an opinion, and more of an astute observation. I totally hate armchair economists and the like, especially ones fueled by a 50$ investment they felt didn't live up to their standards.
I look forward to GW2 and SW:ToR's launch though, the drama is always fun to watch, but when someone tries to push numbers and investor quotes, I tend to shut it out as total crap. Because it usually is.
Yep, have the same feeling.
The drama is entertaining and amusing, but the constant number pushing and agenda-based quoting gets tedious after a while, no matter what game it's about, whether it's AoC, WoW, SWTOR, or FFXIV.
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums: Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
Is that 32789 total players or do we need to multiply with some factor?
30K total users is rediculous no, even for FFXIV?
whats up with these "if it has less then a million users it fails!" crap?
Imho a community can be a succes with 25K + people loaded on 1 or 2 servers.....i realy do
Sure. Anarchy Online survives with less than 20k players. But that's after almost 10 years.
SE spent how many millions just to get 30k people?
They sold how many boxes and only kept 30k people out of them?
Anyways, the numbers don't even matter now. Whether they have 30k or 300k, when the CEO says his company's game is shit, the game is most likely shit.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
This might be a good time for them to shut down the game with the promise of revamping the game majorly for a much further future release.
Bad idea imo.
The problem is with crappy launches is that the vast majority of players aren't willing to give them a second chance, ever. Add to that a red flag like "taking the game down to re-release it" and you'll find even more aren't willing to so much as take a second glance at it.
It does fall down to them not pushing enough out at the gate, but even more so from players not expecting this to happen... much like it has from every MMO launch, ever. After how many times this is happened I still can't believe people expect perfection in the first month.
< Still waiting on FFXIV, and will be for quite some time.
People aren't expecting perfection. And it is very normal to discuss the news that a CEO of one of the major names of MMORPGs has to say about a recent product.
Nobody can ignore the barrage of bad reviews that FFXIV received. I'm sorry the game you were waiting for sucks but shit happens.
Is that 32789 total players or do we need to multiply with some factor?
30K total users is rediculous no, even for FFXIV?
whats up with these "if it has less then a million users it fails!" crap?
Imho a community can be a succes with 25K + people loaded on 1 or 2 servers.....i realy do
I'm not saying that. Where did I say that?
Thing is I'm very surprised by these low numbers because FF has a very loyal following.
In regards to the community being a success with 25k, that is absolutely true. But we also need to look at the ecomic side of things. I don't know the development cost of FFXIV but I have a creepy suspicion that 25K might not cut it to get a return on investment fast enough. (I'm just assuming here).
I'm pretty sure those are PCU numbers (Peak Concurrent Users) or 'active players online' numbers, meaning measurements made of how many players were logged in playing. As an example: CCP mentioned a PCU of about 45k when it had 300-330k subs.
For a server, a number of players logged in at peak times of 1000-2000 is a well to high populated server, everything above 2k at peak times and a server is thriving to bursting. 500-1000 online at the same time generally feels like low to medium population.
More of news of the approaching blame game that is incomming.
We will hear down the line sometime that some upper level manager pressured some other guy into keeping this game on track for release. Clearly someone within the business wanted this venture to fail or had little knowledge of the MMO game world in both the US and Japan. There are lots of reasons someone within the company would want the game development to stop and/or fail.
I can understand the Japanese complaints and when I read their complaints, it nearly mirrored the western complaints. So its hard for me to believe that the peopel at Sony did not see this comming.
In the end? MMOs in general will get more of a bad rap because of this release. Though possible good news would be that companies will see this as another example of releasing games to early and not taking negative feedback seriously enough.
Or maybe you're the one looking into a mirror & wishing you saw Brad Pitt but the only thing you see there is your own little self & you feel sad.
So you jump on the interweb to rejoice in other people misery (you said it yourself man, you like drama... don't go nuts about it now.) & even, maybe, rub their nose in it a bit, that makes you feel strong & important.
Go fig.
I'm also not big on armchair psychologists that get their degree from online courses. I do this simply because every congregation of angry consumers needs "that guy" who reminds them it's their fault for expecting too much. Otherwise it's pretty much boils down to a big circle-jerk around the concept of a corporate headquarters burning to the ground as people sing Koombayaa around the smouldering pile. I'm a fan of watching trainwrecks, but not actually celebrating them.
I'm sorry the game you were waiting for sucks but shit happens.
Well duh. It happens every time a new game launches, and honestly, I expect as much every single time a new one arrives. This is why I wait for good news, and believe me, I'm not even biting my nails over it. I got plenty of other games to play while it gets it's act together. I just like throwing wrenches into the disestablisment machine, it has it coming for finding more enjoyment out of watching a corporation slump into a fetal position than actually trying to enjoy their product after all.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Or maybe you're the one looking into a mirror & wishing you saw Brad Pitt but the only thing you see there is your own little self & you feel sad.
So you jump on the interweb to rejoice in other people misery (you said it yourself man, you like drama... don't go nuts about it now.) & even, maybe, rub their nose in it a bit, that makes you feel strong & important.
Go fig.
I'm also not big on armchair psychologists that get their degree from online courses. I do this simply because every congregation of angry consumers needs "that guy" who reminds them it's their fault for expecting too much. Otherwise it's pretty much boils down to a big circle-jerk around the concept of a corporate headquarters burning to the ground as people sing Koombayaa around the smouldering pile. I'm a fan of watching trainwrecks, but not actually celebrating them.
Ok stop it allready ... who is celebrating what?
We are discussing the public announcement done by the CEO of a very important game developing company.
You seeing a celebration says more about you then the so-called armchair psychologists you keep mentioning.
Or maybe you're the one looking into a mirror & wishing you saw Brad Pitt but the only thing you see there is your own little self & you feel sad.
So you jump on the interweb to rejoice in other people misery (you said it yourself man, you like drama... don't go nuts about it now.) & even, maybe, rub their nose in it a bit, that makes you feel strong & important.
Go fig.
I'm also not big on armchair psychologists that get their degree from online courses. I do this simply because every congregation of angry consumers needs "that guy" who reminds them it's their fault for expecting too much. Otherwise it's pretty much boils down to a big circle-jerk around the concept of a corporate headquarters burning to the ground as people sing Koombayaa around the smouldering pile. I'm a fan of watching trainwrecks, but not actually celebrating them.
Well, quoted for posterity. lol
I didn't deleted it fast enough. Sorry man, you just get on my nerve sometimes.
But talking about armchairing... You shoud really listen to yourself.
Or maybe you're the one looking into a mirror & wishing you saw Brad Pitt but the only thing you see there is your own little self & you feel sad.
So you jump on the interweb to rejoice in other people misery (you said it yourself man, you like drama... don't go nuts about it now.) & even, maybe, rub their nose in it a bit, that makes you feel strong & important.
Go fig.
I'm also not big on armchair psychologists that get their degree from online courses. I do this simply because every congregation of angry consumers needs "that guy" who reminds them it's their fault for expecting too much. Otherwise it's pretty much boils down to a big circle-jerk around the concept of a corporate headquarters burning to the ground as people sing Koombayaa around the smouldering pile. I'm a fan of watching trainwrecks, but not actually celebrating them.
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
This might be a good time for them to shut down the game with the promise of revamping the game majorly for a much further future release.
Bad idea imo.
The problem is with crappy launches is that the vast majority of players aren't willing to give them a second chance, ever. Add to that a red flag like "taking the game down to re-release it" and you'll find even more aren't willing to so much as take a second glance at it.
It does fall down to them not pushing enough out at the gate, but even more so from players not expecting this to happen... much like it has from every MMO launch, ever. After how many times this is happened I still can't believe people expect perfection in the first month.
< Still waiting on FFXIV, and will be for quite some time.
yea thats what gets me... its crazy to see all the time it gets worse an worse, the game you think will be better than the next launch gets the same effect, EVERYTIME. you can't say "THIS GAME ? THIS WON"T HAPPEN AT ALL" an then it always does lol. It's getting very ridiculous. It's made into a huge mockery as if they do this to players on purpose an they know nothing etc. its like the 1st month we have all these testers out of no where all of a sudden. 6 years making a game, pffft scratch that... we might as well wait 10 years now days because players want expansions all included! but who's gonna pay 10 years up front money to make a mmoprg with that 10 year content out the box? people are watching hard now....
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain. (2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
This might be a good time for them to shut down the game with the promise of revamping the game majorly for a much further future release.
Bad idea imo.
The problem is with crappy launches is that the vast majority of players aren't willing to give them a second chance, ever. Add to that a red flag like "taking the game down to re-release it" and you'll find even more aren't willing to so much as take a second glance at it.
It does fall down to them not pushing enough out at the gate, but even more so from players not expecting this to happen... much like it has from every MMO launch, ever. After how many times this is happened I still can't believe people expect perfection in the first month.
< Still waiting on FFXIV, and will be for quite some time.
yea thats what gets me... its crazy to see all the time it gets worse an worse, the game you think will be better than the next launch gets the same effect, EVERYTIME. you can't say "THIS GAME ? THIS WON"T HAPPEN AT ALL" an then it always does lol. It's getting very ridiculous. It's made into a huge mockery as if they do this to players on purpose an they know nothing etc. its like the 1st month we have all these testers out of no where all of a sudden. 6 years making a game, pffft scratch that... we might as well wait 10 years now days because players want expansions all included! but who's gonna pay 10 years up front money to make a mmoprg with that 10 year content out the box? people are watching hard now....
Who asked for an expansion already ? We wanted a game. Seems like its a new fashion to deliver undone. IKEA style, make your own MMO from theses parts... batteries not included.
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
Whoa now!
If you have paid attention to every launched game since about 2003 (at least) you would know the standard is to release total crap and have it be palatable after a year+ of patches. THAT is the minimum standard. Before that, people just dealt with whatever the game offered because the genre was fresh and had that new car smell. Now people expect more after playing games like WoW, that hit it's peak years after launch, and has that moment set as an example for how other games need to be right out of the gate. (I apologise for using WoW as a reference, honestly)
Am I the only one that's been paying attention to this or what?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
They deserve this to happen. I played in the beta, and in the entirety of that beta, 99% of the players felt like they were just part of a stress test. We all complained about ALL of these issues prior to launch, and SE just kinda laughed it off and went on their merry way.
Well grats SE - you have the proud honor of having the most broken AAA MMO release ever.
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
Whoa now!
If you have paid attention to every launched game since about 2003 (at least) you would know the standard is to release total crap and have it be palatable after a year+ of patches. THAT is the minimum standard. Before that, people just dealt with whatever the game offered because the genre was fresh and had that new car smell. Now people expect more after playing games like WoW, that hit it's peak years after launch, and has that moment set as an example for how other games need to be right out of the gate. (I apologise for using WoW as a reference, honestly)
Am I the only one that's been paying attention to this or what?
Nope I am too, I never said SE was the only one failing at minimum standard, you did put words in my mouth, I said MMO MARKET. You may have all the degrees you want but we all deserve the same ... quality products. MMO market rarely have some playable games at launch and most of them are incomplete and soon to be patched. Why people dont react more about this crap i dont know but if FF14 falls it might make a statement to the industry (lets hope).
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
Whoa now!
If you have paid attention to every launched game since about 2003 (at least) you would know the standard is to release total crap and have it be palatable after a year+ of patches. THAT is the minimum standard. Before that, people just dealt with whatever the game offered because the genre was fresh and had that new car smell. Now people expect more after playing games like WoW, that hit it's peak years after launch, and has that moment set as an example for how other games need to be right out of the gate. (I apologise for using WoW as a reference, honestly)
Am I the only one that's been paying attention to this or what?
Not every game. LotRO had a pretty good launch. It was a stable game with a lot of content and whatnot.
It IS an issue though. A new MMORPG that has 2-5 years of development time has to compete against MMORPGs with 7-12 years of development time. It makes it harder to compete and just generally changes the overall battleground for subs.
But - that's a good thing. If they can't come up with a game that competes well with some of the older, more developed MMORPGs, then they have no business starting development of the game in the first place. If they are unable to come out with a product that successfully competes with the big dogs, they deserve to fail. And we have seen them fail repeatedly, largely for this reason.
I'm certainly not going to give them my money to help them grow into something at some point. I'm much happier playing a well developed game.
Nope I am too, I never said SE was the only one failing at minimum standard, you did put words in my mouth, I said MMO MARKET. You may have all the degrees you want but we all deserve the same ... quality products. MMO market rarely have some playable games at launch and most of them are incomplete and soon to be patched. Why people dont react more about this crap i dont know but if FF14 falls it might make a statement to the industry (lets hope).
Hell if I know how that's gonna happen. Basically these games need more time, and time = money, and publishers are in control of that. Something about them not making all their money back in box sales, and thusly they immediately shift the development team around to where they make maximum profits post-launch.
If you want a really good MMO with a future that sees more funding pumped into development, look towards self-published developers, but still expect total crap because those are usually amatuers (indy). Besides CCP that is, but even then you'll find people arguing over their capability.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4 Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
So what's credible for you? Oh, that's right. Nothing, otherwise you'd have to admit the game is crap.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
Nope I am too, I never said SE was the only one failing at minimum standard, you did put words in my mouth, I said MMO MARKET. You may have all the degrees you want but we all deserve the same ... quality products. MMO market rarely have some playable games at launch and most of them are incomplete and soon to be patched. Why people dont react more about this crap i dont know but if FF14 falls it might make a statement to the industry (lets hope).
Hell if I know how that's gonna happen. Basically these games need more time, and time = money, and publishers are in control of that. Something about them making all their money back in box sales, and thusly they immediately shift the development team around to where they make maximum profits post-launch.
If you want a really good MMO with a future that sees more funding pumped into development, look towards self-published developers, but still expect total crap because those are usually amatuers (indy). Besides CCP that is, by even then you'll find people arguing over their capability.
Funny, since SE published their own damn game. Next argument?
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.- -And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Comments
I'm pretty sure those are PCU numbers (Peak Concurrent Users) or 'active players online' numbers, meaning measurements made of how many players were logged in playing. As an example: CCP mentioned a PCU of about 45k when it had 300-330k subs.
For a server, a number of players logged in at peak times of 1000-2000 is a well to high populated server, everything above 2k at peak times and a server is thriving to bursting. 500-1000 online at the same time generally feels like low to medium population.
Yep, have the same feeling.
The drama is entertaining and amusing, but the constant number pushing and agenda-based quoting gets tedious after a while, no matter what game it's about, whether it's AoC, WoW, SWTOR, or FFXIV.
The ACTUAL size of MMORPG worlds: a comparison list between MMO's
The ease with which predictions are made on these forums:
Fratman: "I'm saying Spring 2012 at the earliest [for TOR release]. Anyone still clinging to 2011 is deluding themself at this point."
deleted
Sure. Anarchy Online survives with less than 20k players. But that's after almost 10 years.
SE spent how many millions just to get 30k people?
They sold how many boxes and only kept 30k people out of them?
Anyways, the numbers don't even matter now. Whether they have 30k or 300k, when the CEO says his company's game is shit, the game is most likely shit.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
People aren't expecting perfection. And it is very normal to discuss the news that a CEO of one of the major names of MMORPGs has to say about a recent product.
Nobody can ignore the barrage of bad reviews that FFXIV received. I'm sorry the game you were waiting for sucks but shit happens.
PCU numbers ... makes sense.
Learned something new again.
Well hindsight isnt the issue here.
More of news of the approaching blame game that is incomming.
We will hear down the line sometime that some upper level manager pressured some other guy into keeping this game on track for release. Clearly someone within the business wanted this venture to fail or had little knowledge of the MMO game world in both the US and Japan. There are lots of reasons someone within the company would want the game development to stop and/or fail.
I can understand the Japanese complaints and when I read their complaints, it nearly mirrored the western complaints. So its hard for me to believe that the peopel at Sony did not see this comming.
In the end? MMOs in general will get more of a bad rap because of this release. Though possible good news would be that companies will see this as another example of releasing games to early and not taking negative feedback seriously enough.
- ya I'm here
I'm also not big on armchair psychologists that get their degree from online courses. I do this simply because every congregation of angry consumers needs "that guy" who reminds them it's their fault for expecting too much. Otherwise it's pretty much boils down to a big circle-jerk around the concept of a corporate headquarters burning to the ground as people sing Koombayaa around the smouldering pile. I'm a fan of watching trainwrecks, but not actually celebrating them.
I'm sorry the game you were waiting for sucks but shit happens.
Well duh. It happens every time a new game launches, and honestly, I expect as much every single time a new one arrives. This is why I wait for good news, and believe me, I'm not even biting my nails over it. I got plenty of other games to play while it gets it's act together. I just like throwing wrenches into the disestablisment machine, it has it coming for finding more enjoyment out of watching a corporation slump into a fetal position than actually trying to enjoy their product after all.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
Ok stop it allready ... who is celebrating what?
We are discussing the public announcement done by the CEO of a very important game developing company.
You seeing a celebration says more about you then the so-called armchair psychologists you keep mentioning.
Well, quoted for posterity. lol
I didn't deleted it fast enough. Sorry man, you just get on my nerve sometimes.
But talking about armchairing... You shoud really listen to yourself.
Expected too much ?? I wanted a game ... I got scraps. Sometimes people really dont know what is a minimum standard in MMO market...
yea thats what gets me... its crazy to see all the time it gets worse an worse, the game you think will be better than the next launch gets the same effect, EVERYTIME. you can't say "THIS GAME ? THIS WON"T HAPPEN AT ALL" an then it always does lol. It's getting very ridiculous. It's made into a huge mockery as if they do this to players on purpose an they know nothing etc. its like the 1st month we have all these testers out of no where all of a sudden. 6 years making a game, pffft scratch that... we might as well wait 10 years now days because players want expansions all included! but who's gonna pay 10 years up front money to make a mmoprg with that 10 year content out the box? people are watching hard now....
I actually have a Harvard degree in calling BS for what it is, with 16 credits in narcissistic backtalk and rhetoric.
The professor actually broke down and called me a "jerk" during the finals, they ended up giving me tenure for it.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
All I can say is that I'm glad I canceled my pre-order and I honestly hope that this game fails. Yes, the game failing will be rather devastating to the S-E fans and fans of the game, but companies need to learn to create quality products and consumers need to learn to buy quality products.
I understand with 'technology items' and, in our case here, mmorpgs it can be a difficult prospect but the burden really is on the consumer to do as much homework as possible before making a decision. No matter how interesting something looks a potential buyer, a player, needs to look at it and decide for themselves if the company is providing them enough information to base a decision and if the company is ultimately reputable. Developers and Publishers of mmorpgs have received a nearly criminal pass for many years and by and large mmorpg players have been stupid enough or cynical enough to keep buying ultimately flawed products.
Again, this game needs to fail so that companies can actually see there are serious consequences to creating a bad title and players need to learn that they don't have to simply choose between all of the options on the table, sometimes it's just better to not play and wait. This game failing will not destroy the mmorpg market, if anything it's failure can only hope to make the market a better place for all involved.
(1)TL:DR must be your way of saying that thinking hurts. Then again, this may explain why it looks like you responded to the post without using your brain.
(2) It's not about community, is it? You just have nothing better to do.
Who asked for an expansion already ? We wanted a game. Seems like its a new fashion to deliver undone. IKEA style, make your own MMO from theses parts... batteries not included.
Whoa now!
If you have paid attention to every launched game since about 2003 (at least) you would know the standard is to release total crap and have it be palatable after a year+ of patches. THAT is the minimum standard. Before that, people just dealt with whatever the game offered because the genre was fresh and had that new car smell. Now people expect more after playing games like WoW, that hit it's peak years after launch, and has that moment set as an example for how other games need to be right out of the gate. (I apologise for using WoW as a reference, honestly)
Am I the only one that's been paying attention to this or what?
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
As consumers we also have to find the reputable sources to get our information from.... I don't consider SC a reputable site which most of this OP's posts seem to come from then half the people who post stroke him for it.
They deserve this to happen. I played in the beta, and in the entirety of that beta, 99% of the players felt like they were just part of a stress test. We all complained about ALL of these issues prior to launch, and SE just kinda laughed it off and went on their merry way.
Well grats SE - you have the proud honor of having the most broken AAA MMO release ever.
So the CEO did not make this statement?
*blah blah*
Here. Kotaku has it too. Happy, or are they not reputable as well? http://kotaku.com/5682254/faith-in-fantasy-fantasy-xiv-needs-resurrecting
Oh, wait, how about Yahoo Japan? http://headlines.yahoo.co.jp/hl?a=20101104-00000021-mantan-game
And here's the google translate version so you won't have to work too hard. http://translate.google.com/translate?js=n&prev=_t&hl=en&ie=UTF-8&layout=2&eotf=1&sl=ja&tl=en&u=http%3A%2F%2Fheadlines.yahoo.co.jp%2Fhl%3Fa%3D20101104-00000021-mantan-game
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
Nope I am too, I never said SE was the only one failing at minimum standard, you did put words in my mouth, I said MMO MARKET. You may have all the degrees you want but we all deserve the same ... quality products. MMO market rarely have some playable games at launch and most of them are incomplete and soon to be patched. Why people dont react more about this crap i dont know but if FF14 falls it might make a statement to the industry (lets hope).
Not every game. LotRO had a pretty good launch. It was a stable game with a lot of content and whatnot.
It IS an issue though. A new MMORPG that has 2-5 years of development time has to compete against MMORPGs with 7-12 years of development time. It makes it harder to compete and just generally changes the overall battleground for subs.
But - that's a good thing. If they can't come up with a game that competes well with some of the older, more developed MMORPGs, then they have no business starting development of the game in the first place. If they are unable to come out with a product that successfully competes with the big dogs, they deserve to fail. And we have seen them fail repeatedly, largely for this reason.
I'm certainly not going to give them my money to help them grow into something at some point. I'm much happier playing a well developed game.
Hell if I know how that's gonna happen. Basically these games need more time, and time = money, and publishers are in control of that. Something about them not making all their money back in box sales, and thusly they immediately shift the development team around to where they make maximum profits post-launch.
If you want a really good MMO with a future that sees more funding pumped into development, look towards self-published developers, but still expect total crap because those are usually amatuers (indy). Besides CCP that is, but even then you'll find people arguing over their capability.
Writer / Musician / Game Designer
Now Playing: Skyrim, Wurm Online, Tropico 4
Waiting On: GW2, TSW, Archeage, The Rapture
So what's credible for you? Oh, that's right. Nothing, otherwise you'd have to admit the game is crap.
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-
... on your nerves apparently.
Funny, since SE published their own damn game. Next argument?
-Letting Derek Smart work on your game is like letting Osama bin Laden work in the White House. Something will burn.-
-And on the 8th day, man created God.-