It should be f2p already, at the very least they will probably add the item shop in 2011 when they "fix" the game; the Crysta system is all set for an item shop.
There are people that are playing that have faith in SE, and those people will be happy with this.
I had a wait and see attitude...for a bit. Then I decided I'll just check back in March. No point keeping the game installed if the actually fixes dont go in till the end of December. I know there is a November one, but it isn't enough for me personally.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
Only way for me to go back to play FFXIV is they change the UI, I didn't have problem with FFXI UI but XIV UI is just retarded. I DO NOT WANT TO USE A GAME PAD. I have a perfect fine keyboard and mouse, and I would like to use them regardless what game I am playing. I don't want to buy a PS3 or Xbox 360 or Wii.
They can even make XIV free to play, I still won't play with current UI.
They are making a brand new UI for mouse/keyboard users. You will have the option of using the old UI or the new one.
BTW - For those of us that bought the game on Sept. 22, 2010. The new free month will go until December 22, 2010.
Why is this significant? BECAUSE the content patch is scheduled for MID DECEMBER. This is not only a great gesture by SE for the November UI patch but they also designed the free month to include the December CONTENT patch.
Pretty cool if you ask me. SE never lost my trust because I know their track record with FFXI. For those of you that lost faith/trust, and it would have been reasonable to do so, I hope this gesture by SE redeems any previous faith/trust you had in them.
To Japanese game companies, honor means something. It's part of their culture. I don't think it's just lip service. They legitimately will try their best, but it remains to be seen whether it will manifest itself into good results.
A good call on behalf of Square-Enix, if they happen to add sufficient content/improvements by December 20th that the game does indeed feel worth staying suscribed to.
I was able to reactivate my account without an apparent charge, so I'll be able to give them this chance.
That said, I probably won't even bother to play much of the game until their first major content release occurs, as I'm sort of stalemated without much to do at the moment except grind, and that's really something my burnt out veteran MMORPG gamer sensibilities cannot tolerate.
Eh, maybe I'll at least slog through the game long enough to get the rank 15 quest done.
[Edit:] Besaid world population at the moment is 843. Yes, definately not doing as well 2 months in as it was 5 weeks in. Probably because, evne if you like the game like I did, you're going to encounter that same lack of content.
A good call on behalf of Square-Enix, if they happen to add sufficient content/improvements by December 20th that the game does indeed feel worth staying suscribed to.
I was able to reactivate my account without an apparent charge, so I'll be able to give them this chance.
That said, I probably won't even bother to play much of the game until their first major content release occurs, as I'm sort of stalemated without much to do at the moment except grind, and that's really something my burnt out veteran MMORPG gamer sensibilities cannot tolerate.
Eh, maybe I'll at least slog through the game long enough to get the rank 15 quest done.
[Edit:] Besaid world population at the moment is 843. Yes, definately not doing as well 2 months in as it was 5 weeks in. Probably because, evne if you like the game like I did, you're going to encounter that same lack of content.
Well to be fair at the weekend was Besaid around 1400. I Guess it lies currently between 700 and 1200 there overall. Sorry for being offtopic here.
It's very nice of them to give another month away fro free.
But think of this, this just proves without a shadow of a doubt that they didn't rush the game out because they had to due to lack of funds (which is always the accepted excuse for an MMORPG being unfinished at launc).
They didn't rush it due to pressure, so why did they? I think it shows an interesting aspect of the launch.
So [if money wasn't the reason] why was it released unfinished?
I think the truth of the matter is this: it's really hard for a game developer to tell when the game is really finished enough. A game is never truly, "done," there's always more refinement or features you can do, so there reaches a certain point in which you have to say it's "done enough." However, in all aspects of entertainment, you really don't know how the show will be received until the audience reacts, so your ability to gauge when it's "done enough" is sketchy.
So [if money wasn't the reason] why was it released unfinished?
I think the truth of the matter is this: it's really hard for a game developer to tell when the game is really finished enough. A game is never truly, "done," there's always more refinement or features you can do, so there reaches a certain point in which you have to say it's "done enough." However, in all aspects of entertainment, you really don't know how the show will be received until the audience reacts, so your ability to gauge when it's "done enough" is sketchy.
That is the single most feeble defense of companies that release unfinished games that I have ever heard.
I'll tell you who is good at knowing when games are finished - game devs.
They released this game unfinished, incomplete - and they had funds to be able not to do that.
They have disrespected their fans in my view by doing that, it's just not right and you don't have to make excuses for them.
So [if money wasn't the reason] why was it released unfinished?
I think the truth of the matter is this: it's really hard for a game developer to tell when the game is really finished enough. A game is never truly, "done," there's always more refinement or features you can do, so there reaches a certain point in which you have to say it's "done enough." However, in all aspects of entertainment, you really don't know how the show will be received until the audience reacts, so your ability to gauge when it's "done enough" is sketchy.
Sorry, but that is crap.
When the UI is so horrible for a mouse and keyboard user, which is still the primary physical interface for PCs (you know, the medium it was released on first) they that have to totally redo it after launch, that is not "not done enough", that is crappy design. And testing/QA. And management.
That is the single most feeble defense of companies that release unfinished games that I have ever heard.
Originally posted by Burntvet
Sorry, but that is crap.
Basically what I said was, "the reason why the developer releases games unfinished is because they can't tell when the game is finished enough." In response, apparently I'm being told that it's a terrible defense and crap.
However, I didn't just pull this sentiment out of my arse. I've seen an article written by Shigeru Miyamoto explaining that the single skill he wish he had was the ability to see things from the perspective of the player, because the developer gets so wrapped up in the product that they can't. (I wish I could find it, but my Google-Fu failed me.) I've also seen an article written by the maker of Elemental explaining the reason why he released it as a buggy POS was because he honestly thought it was done enough. In my own experiences dabbling in game development, I concur with these sentiments.
So, like it or not, when a game is released unfinished and market pressures are not to blame, it probably really is because the developer genuinely can't tell the game wasn't finished enough. What I wrote was neither a defense, nor was it crap, but the truth considering the overwhelming evidence I've seen in support of this idea. In light of this, I find that if you want to argue with what I expressed, you're simply not capable of handling the truth.
What do you mean I'm 'not capable of handling the truth' ?
This is a computer game, not something of any importance.
Also, I will say again, because you do love to selectively quote, don't you?
There are people who are better than you or me at deciding when a game is finished - game devs.
The opinion of Mr Mario himself isn't relelvant here, no matter how much of a genius the guy is - if he played FF14 for a few days, what do you honestly think he would do? Would he:
but gave another month. now ppl "may" comeback and new ppl try... and if it still sucks they will lose not only that month but future months also. ( im saying drop quick )
or just soak they subs they could get till it dies out.
What do you mean I'm 'not capable of handling the truth' ?
This is a computer game, not something of any importance.
Also, I will say again, because you do love to selectively quote, don't you?
There are people who are better than you or me at deciding when a game is finished - game devs.
The opinion of Mr Mario himself isn't relelvant here, no matter how much of a genius the guy is - if he played FF14 for a few days, what do you honestly think he would do? Would he:
A) Look confused at the poor state of the game
Dance a happy jig and declare the game great
As he was not involved in the development in FFXIV, he would be blessed with the external perspective that made him immune to the typical game developer's blindness. This blindness was the whole point of what I wrote, so I guess what I wrote flew completely over your head.
What do you mean I'm 'not capable of handling the truth' ?
This is a computer game, not something of any importance.
Also, I will say again, because you do love to selectively quote, don't you?
There are people who are better than you or me at deciding when a game is finished - game devs.
The opinion of Mr Mario himself isn't relelvant here, no matter how much of a genius the guy is - if he played FF14 for a few days, what do you honestly think he would do? Would he:
A) Look confused at the poor state of the game
Dance a happy jig and declare the game great
As he was not involved in the development in FFXIV, he would be blessed with the external perspective that made him immune to the typical game developer's blindness. This blindness was the whole point of what I wrote, so I guess what I wrote flew completely over your head.
It didn't go over my head at all. It sort of buzzed around the room then fell limply in the corner and wimpered a little.
All you did with your last reply there was repeat what you wrote in the previous post, but with the words in a slightly different format.
Just because people don't answer you the way you want them to does not mean they have missunderstood you. You are not some puppet master and you should respect peoples own free wills and opinions as much as you like to think you do.
That is the single most feeble defense of companies that release unfinished games that I have ever heard.
Originally posted by Burntvet
Sorry, but that is crap.
Basically what I said was, "the reason why the developer releases games unfinished is because they can't tell when the game is finished enough." In response, apparently I'm being told that it's a terrible defense and crap.
However, I didn't just pull this sentiment out of my arse. I've seen an article written by Shigeru Miyamoto explaining that the single skill he wish he had was the ability to see things from the perspective of the player, because the developer gets so wrapped up in the product that they can't. (I wish I could find it, but my Google-Fu failed me.) I've also seen an article written by the maker of Elemental explaining the reason why he released it as a buggy POS was because he honestly thought it was done enough. In my own experiences dabbling in game development, I concur with these sentiments.
So, like it or not, when a game is released unfinished and market pressures are not to blame, it probably really is because the developer genuinely can't tell the game wasn't finished enough. What I wrote was neither a defense, nor was it crap, but the truth considering the overwhelming evidence I've seen in support of this idea. In light of this, I find that if you want to argue with what I expressed, you're simply not capable of handling the truth.
Geldon, I genuinly like your posts but there are degrees of "not seeing." SE did ZERO opposition research. They were either arrogant or ignorant. They thought..."We're SE, if we build it, they will come."
You have to know what the market offers. You can't design a bicycle when the majority of the player base expects a car. I like FFXIV, for some odd reason, but I see its short comings.
How do you design the leve system without first seeing what other games do by way of "quest" design. How do you implelement a story ever 5 lvls when it may take 2 months to go from 40 to 45. What about the fact that all the NPC's in town are DEAD, because they offer no individual quests, stories, or depth.
The games foundation is SOLID, it's just a shadow of what it can be. SE thought they could take the IDENTICAL development cycle as FFXI. Meanwhile, 10 years had passed, the mmo market changed, the subscriber base is more sophisticated, more experienced, and expects more.
If SE had no idea this was the case, then they were living in a cave, or their arrogance blinded them to reality. I am SOO happy FFXIV is struggling right now. Why? Because I know the developers have a fire lit under their A$$. That means this game is going to be amazing a year from now and beyond. It will be very similar to FFXI but with a faster development cycle. This is the best thing that could have happened to SE and to FFXIV.
I can't wait to see all the new changes in the near and far future.
That is the single most feeble defense of companies that release unfinished games that I have ever heard.
Originally posted by Burntvet
Sorry, but that is crap.
So, like it or not, when a game is released unfinished and market pressures are not to blame, it probably really is because the developer genuinely can't tell the game wasn't finished enough.
I agree with the other 2, that excuse is horrible.
It's not one guy looking at the project, it's a hundred people working on individual parts that have to sync them all up together according to a specific layout. It's not like playing darts and everyone gets a turn and that's it. Every stage of development has to be mapped out from models/textures, lighting crew, animators, sound, music and storyboards. This is not a OOPS like the company would like the entire gullible world to believe. Any idiot knows you have a set number of levels in the initial release of an MMO and that requires gameplay and storylines to support it up to that point. If you don't have that kind of content in your initial launch that more than qualifies as a rip-off.
They simply ran with the design the way it was because it was a human hamster wheel designed to make perpetual money from a never ending timesink with subscriptions. The only reason they are changing it is because people got angry and boycotted them. That's like pointing a sword at the someones eyeball, they are going to flinch whether they want to or not.
You know something was seriously wrong with it when even the perma-fans are hitting the wall already. Instead of attacking every piece of negative information released about this game people should have been analysing it and making rational judgements to help get the ball rolling the proper direction.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
That is the single most feeble defense of companies that release unfinished games that I have ever heard.
Originally posted by Burntvet
Sorry, but that is crap.
Basically what I said was, "the reason why the developer releases games unfinished is because they can't tell when the game is finished enough." In response, apparently I'm being told that it's a terrible defense and crap.
However, I didn't just pull this sentiment out of my arse. I've seen an article written by Shigeru Miyamoto explaining that the single skill he wish he had was the ability to see things from the perspective of the player, because the developer gets so wrapped up in the product that they can't. (I wish I could find it, but my Google-Fu failed me.) I've also seen an article written by the maker of Elemental explaining the reason why he released it as a buggy POS was because he honestly thought it was done enough. In my own experiences dabbling in game development, I concur with these sentiments.
So, like it or not, when a game is released unfinished and market pressures are not to blame, it probably really is because the developer genuinely can't tell the game wasn't finished enough. What I wrote was neither a defense, nor was it crap, but the truth considering the overwhelming evidence I've seen in support of this idea. In light of this, I find that if you want to argue with what I expressed, you're simply not capable of handling the truth.
Well Geldon is actually right about this, it is a problem that pretty easy happens to develoeprs sicne the developers normally knows how the thing works, like that it is for him totally obvious if you kill that guy in building X you will get the legendary weapon you need to deefat the boss that stands currently in front of you. Out from the view of a develoepr it makes totally sense. Add to that the aspect that your games and projects before worked out pretty well and were by all liked. You sort of get the thinking that you actually udnerstand the game market and than rely less on the outside opinion.
Not to mention that you actually feel attacked when people not udnerstand your genius idea you had in mind. Elemental is actually a good example for it and Stardock as well was not in the that big financial need to push the product out. Ok tehre was some in combanation with the release time but they were really convinced that the game was great. The best example wa sthe lack of tutorials in the game to explain certain mechanics. They were after the uproar added really fast into the game afterwards.
Indepenend from what someone may thing about Final Fantasy 14 I advice to read their developer journals on their page, they give a good view into a developers mind. :P
Yes this may not excuse the end product, but mainly shows that developers are kind of human beings which views sometimes can end up pretty clouded. Not to mention that 'the player' is a very mysterious being because it propably does not give 'the player',
Oh as a sidenote if you work as a developer for a while you normally end up to find most of them insane. The main problem is that you and the customer have a complete different knowledge background and view into things. Ask for example a webdesigenr once about his opinions about his customers and their ideas. I bet in most cases they will roll with their eyes.
I dunno. It seems to me that plenty of people in beta probably said, hey this is bloody broke. Oh wait, they didn't they were all fanboys and said..there will be a miracle patch.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
I dunno. It seems to me that plenty of people in beta probably said, hey this is bloody broke. Oh wait, they didn't they were all fanboys and said..there will be a miracle patch.
It is not about the people not being fanboys and I admit that what I say now is just based on my own experience in the case of project developement and following certain projects like Elamentals War of Magic for example. But developer like to ignore well the opinion of beta testers, aside if it are technical bugs.
Not to mention that certain things need a certain developement time and that programmers and develoeprs have normally an internal priority list after their they work and for them are Design complains normally on a lower level of priority, because they considered or at least think they considered this all in the planning phase.
It is not like a company sort of finish the whole game and than says suddenly 'Oh hey, let us fust make an UI !!'. I guess they trusted in that case their experience with Final Fantasy 11 and their other games as a good experience, so they propably saw that beta testplayer 'ranting' more as a minor issue. From a developer view customer feedback falls often under Sturgeon's Law if they want it or not.
Of course it turned out that the issues were not minor and the critic aside of some people is reasonable, I just try to explain the mindsetting of developers a bit better.
Impressed? people are getting impressed really? a company desperately trying to save its behind by offering 60 day free time on newly released MMO? and fans can still put a straight face when they praise SE and FFXIV? if anything i find it pathetic and clear indication that this game is not worth your money. SE should turn it into F2P and get over with it.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
I dunno. It seems to me that plenty of people in beta probably said, hey this is bloody broke. Oh wait, they didn't they were all fanboys and said..there will be a miracle patch.
Exactly.
Certain people would have rode the game for years in that broken state and paid the sub happily. I have no idea what would go on in a persons head to accept it like that. The only reason some people's tune is changing all of a sudden is the company itself has admitted to the shoddy work they have done. Now it's like the lights turned on and... Oh my, look at that, I suppose the game really was that bad LoL
*Omega facepalm !!!
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your stay.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized" "The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Seems a lot of people think I'm making an excuse or a defense when I say that the developers didn't know the game was that bad. No, I'm not. I'm just explaining that this was how the mistake was made. There's a difference, but if you're a Final Fantasy fan who is boiling with rage about how XIV turned out, you might be a tad emotionally put out to see it.
Originally posted by Hrayr2148
Geldon, I genuinly like your posts but there are degrees of "not seeing." SE did ZERO opposition research. They were either arrogant or ignorant. They thought..."We're SE, if we build it, they will come."
You have to know what the market offers. You can't design a bicycle when the majority of the player base expects a car. I like FFXIV, for some odd reason, but I see its short comings.
I wouldn't make this assumption, actually. It seems very unlikely a big company like Square-Enix is even capable of putting out a AAA product without market research. Rather, I'd say it's likely that they drew the wrong conclusions from their research. Research gives you data, but data can be misleading, especially in excess, and this leads to false conclusions.
The really incidious thing is, for all we know, this is all going according to plan for them. Lets release an inferior product deliberately! What could they possibly have to gain from that? What indeed.
Originally posted by terroni
I dunno. It seems to me that plenty of people in beta probably said, hey this is bloody broke. Oh wait, they didn't they were all fanboys and said..there will be a miracle patch.
It's been my experience that beta testers of most MMORPGs are just a whole lot of white noise of conflicting opinion that the developers don't invest much time or manpower in paying any attention to. Harsh reality: right here and here. You don't spend years developing games and take the opinions of a horde of self-serving, untrained public beta testers as superior to your own. Not unless you want your game to suck, because they will ruin it if you let them.
Comments
It should be f2p already, at the very least they will probably add the item shop in 2011 when they "fix" the game; the Crysta system is all set for an item shop.
umm.. no. And despite what one other poster on this thread said, this game is already much more PC friendly than XI ever was or will be.
Also they are designing an entirely new alternate interface for PC users to choose from.
http://xivpads.com/?1595680
http://guildwork.com/users/murugan
There are people that are playing that have faith in SE, and those people will be happy with this.
I had a wait and see attitude...for a bit. Then I decided I'll just check back in March. No point keeping the game installed if the actually fixes dont go in till the end of December. I know there is a November one, but it isn't enough for me personally.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
They are making a brand new UI for mouse/keyboard users. You will have the option of using the old UI or the new one.
BTW - For those of us that bought the game on Sept. 22, 2010. The new free month will go until December 22, 2010.
Why is this significant? BECAUSE the content patch is scheduled for MID DECEMBER. This is not only a great gesture by SE for the November UI patch but they also designed the free month to include the December CONTENT patch.
Pretty cool if you ask me. SE never lost my trust because I know their track record with FFXI. For those of you that lost faith/trust, and it would have been reasonable to do so, I hope this gesture by SE redeems any previous faith/trust you had in them.
To Japanese game companies, honor means something. It's part of their culture. I don't think it's just lip service. They legitimately will try their best, but it remains to be seen whether it will manifest itself into good results.
A good call on behalf of Square-Enix, if they happen to add sufficient content/improvements by December 20th that the game does indeed feel worth staying suscribed to.
I was able to reactivate my account without an apparent charge, so I'll be able to give them this chance.
That said, I probably won't even bother to play much of the game until their first major content release occurs, as I'm sort of stalemated without much to do at the moment except grind, and that's really something my burnt out veteran MMORPG gamer sensibilities cannot tolerate.
Eh, maybe I'll at least slog through the game long enough to get the rank 15 quest done.
[Edit:] Besaid world population at the moment is 843. Yes, definately not doing as well 2 months in as it was 5 weeks in. Probably because, evne if you like the game like I did, you're going to encounter that same lack of content.
Well to be fair at the weekend was Besaid around 1400. I Guess it lies currently between 700 and 1200 there overall. Sorry for being offtopic here.
It's very nice of them to give another month away fro free.
But think of this, this just proves without a shadow of a doubt that they didn't rush the game out because they had to due to lack of funds (which is always the accepted excuse for an MMORPG being unfinished at launc).
They didn't rush it due to pressure, so why did they? I think it shows an interesting aspect of the launch.
So wy was it released unfinished?
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
I think the truth of the matter is this: it's really hard for a game developer to tell when the game is really finished enough. A game is never truly, "done," there's always more refinement or features you can do, so there reaches a certain point in which you have to say it's "done enough." However, in all aspects of entertainment, you really don't know how the show will be received until the audience reacts, so your ability to gauge when it's "done enough" is sketchy.
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
Sorry, but that is crap.
When the UI is so horrible for a mouse and keyboard user, which is still the primary physical interface for PCs (you know, the medium it was released on first) they that have to totally redo it after launch, that is not "not done enough", that is crappy design. And testing/QA. And management.
"Done enough" does not even enter into it.
And that is just one example of many.
Basically what I said was, "the reason why the developer releases games unfinished is because they can't tell when the game is finished enough." In response, apparently I'm being told that it's a terrible defense and crap.
However, I didn't just pull this sentiment out of my arse. I've seen an article written by Shigeru Miyamoto explaining that the single skill he wish he had was the ability to see things from the perspective of the player, because the developer gets so wrapped up in the product that they can't. (I wish I could find it, but my Google-Fu failed me.) I've also seen an article written by the maker of Elemental explaining the reason why he released it as a buggy POS was because he honestly thought it was done enough. In my own experiences dabbling in game development, I concur with these sentiments.
So, like it or not, when a game is released unfinished and market pressures are not to blame, it probably really is because the developer genuinely can't tell the game wasn't finished enough. What I wrote was neither a defense, nor was it crap, but the truth considering the overwhelming evidence I've seen in support of this idea. In light of this, I find that if you want to argue with what I expressed, you're simply not capable of handling the truth.
What do you mean I'm 'not capable of handling the truth' ?
This is a computer game, not something of any importance.
Also, I will say again, because you do love to selectively quote, don't you?
There are people who are better than you or me at deciding when a game is finished - game devs.
The opinion of Mr Mario himself isn't relelvant here, no matter how much of a genius the guy is - if he played FF14 for a few days, what do you honestly think he would do? Would he:
A) Look confused at the poor state of the game
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
they could have soaked the money.
but gave another month. now ppl "may" comeback and new ppl try... and if it still sucks they will lose not only that month but future months also. ( im saying drop quick )
or just soak they subs they could get till it dies out.
As he was not involved in the development in FFXIV, he would be blessed with the external perspective that made him immune to the typical game developer's blindness. This blindness was the whole point of what I wrote, so I guess what I wrote flew completely over your head.
It didn't go over my head at all. It sort of buzzed around the room then fell limply in the corner and wimpered a little.
All you did with your last reply there was repeat what you wrote in the previous post, but with the words in a slightly different format.
Just because people don't answer you the way you want them to does not mean they have missunderstood you. You are not some puppet master and you should respect peoples own free wills and opinions as much as you like to think you do.
Game reviews to the drunken masses of the world
Geldon, I genuinly like your posts but there are degrees of "not seeing." SE did ZERO opposition research. They were either arrogant or ignorant. They thought..."We're SE, if we build it, they will come."
You have to know what the market offers. You can't design a bicycle when the majority of the player base expects a car. I like FFXIV, for some odd reason, but I see its short comings.
How do you design the leve system without first seeing what other games do by way of "quest" design. How do you implelement a story ever 5 lvls when it may take 2 months to go from 40 to 45. What about the fact that all the NPC's in town are DEAD, because they offer no individual quests, stories, or depth.
The games foundation is SOLID, it's just a shadow of what it can be. SE thought they could take the IDENTICAL development cycle as FFXI. Meanwhile, 10 years had passed, the mmo market changed, the subscriber base is more sophisticated, more experienced, and expects more.
If SE had no idea this was the case, then they were living in a cave, or their arrogance blinded them to reality. I am SOO happy FFXIV is struggling right now. Why? Because I know the developers have a fire lit under their A$$. That means this game is going to be amazing a year from now and beyond. It will be very similar to FFXI but with a faster development cycle. This is the best thing that could have happened to SE and to FFXIV.
I can't wait to see all the new changes in the near and far future.
SE has faith that their game is salvageable, I do not.
I agree with the other 2, that excuse is horrible.
It's not one guy looking at the project, it's a hundred people working on individual parts that have to sync them all up together according to a specific layout. It's not like playing darts and everyone gets a turn and that's it. Every stage of development has to be mapped out from models/textures, lighting crew, animators, sound, music and storyboards. This is not a OOPS like the company would like the entire gullible world to believe. Any idiot knows you have a set number of levels in the initial release of an MMO and that requires gameplay and storylines to support it up to that point. If you don't have that kind of content in your initial launch that more than qualifies as a rip-off.
They simply ran with the design the way it was because it was a human hamster wheel designed to make perpetual money from a never ending timesink with subscriptions. The only reason they are changing it is because people got angry and boycotted them. That's like pointing a sword at the someones eyeball, they are going to flinch whether they want to or not.
You know something was seriously wrong with it when even the perma-fans are hitting the wall already. Instead of attacking every piece of negative information released about this game people should have been analysing it and making rational judgements to help get the ball rolling the proper direction.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Well Geldon is actually right about this, it is a problem that pretty easy happens to develoeprs sicne the developers normally knows how the thing works, like that it is for him totally obvious if you kill that guy in building X you will get the legendary weapon you need to deefat the boss that stands currently in front of you. Out from the view of a develoepr it makes totally sense. Add to that the aspect that your games and projects before worked out pretty well and were by all liked. You sort of get the thinking that you actually udnerstand the game market and than rely less on the outside opinion.
Not to mention that you actually feel attacked when people not udnerstand your genius idea you had in mind. Elemental is actually a good example for it and Stardock as well was not in the that big financial need to push the product out. Ok tehre was some in combanation with the release time but they were really convinced that the game was great. The best example wa sthe lack of tutorials in the game to explain certain mechanics. They were after the uproar added really fast into the game afterwards.
Indepenend from what someone may thing about Final Fantasy 14 I advice to read their developer journals on their page, they give a good view into a developers mind. :P
Yes this may not excuse the end product, but mainly shows that developers are kind of human beings which views sometimes can end up pretty clouded. Not to mention that 'the player' is a very mysterious being because it propably does not give 'the player',
Oh as a sidenote if you work as a developer for a while you normally end up to find most of them insane. The main problem is that you and the customer have a complete different knowledge background and view into things. Ask for example a webdesigenr once about his opinions about his customers and their ideas. I bet in most cases they will roll with their eyes.
I dunno. It seems to me that plenty of people in beta probably said, hey this is bloody broke. Oh wait, they didn't they were all fanboys and said..there will be a miracle patch.
Drop the next-gen marketing and people will argue if the game itself has merit.
It is not about the people not being fanboys and I admit that what I say now is just based on my own experience in the case of project developement and following certain projects like Elamentals War of Magic for example. But developer like to ignore well the opinion of beta testers, aside if it are technical bugs.
Not to mention that certain things need a certain developement time and that programmers and develoeprs have normally an internal priority list after their they work and for them are Design complains normally on a lower level of priority, because they considered or at least think they considered this all in the planning phase.
It is not like a company sort of finish the whole game and than says suddenly 'Oh hey, let us fust make an UI !!'. I guess they trusted in that case their experience with Final Fantasy 11 and their other games as a good experience, so they propably saw that beta testplayer 'ranting' more as a minor issue. From a developer view customer feedback falls often under Sturgeon's Law if they want it or not.
Of course it turned out that the issues were not minor and the critic aside of some people is reasonable, I just try to explain the mindsetting of developers a bit better.
Impressed? people are getting impressed really? a company desperately trying to save its behind by offering 60 day free time on newly released MMO? and fans can still put a straight face when they praise SE and FFXIV? if anything i find it pathetic and clear indication that this game is not worth your money. SE should turn it into F2P and get over with it.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Exactly.
Certain people would have rode the game for years in that broken state and paid the sub happily. I have no idea what would go on in a persons head to accept it like that. The only reason some people's tune is changing all of a sudden is the company itself has admitted to the shoddy work they have done. Now it's like the lights turned on and... Oh my, look at that, I suppose the game really was that bad LoL
*Omega facepalm !!!
Welcome to reality. Enjoy your stay.
"I'm not cheap I'm incredibly subconsciously financially optimized"
"The worst part of censorship is ------------------"
Seems a lot of people think I'm making an excuse or a defense when I say that the developers didn't know the game was that bad. No, I'm not. I'm just explaining that this was how the mistake was made. There's a difference, but if you're a Final Fantasy fan who is boiling with rage about how XIV turned out, you might be a tad emotionally put out to see it.
I wouldn't make this assumption, actually. It seems very unlikely a big company like Square-Enix is even capable of putting out a AAA product without market research. Rather, I'd say it's likely that they drew the wrong conclusions from their research. Research gives you data, but data can be misleading, especially in excess, and this leads to false conclusions.
The really incidious thing is, for all we know, this is all going according to plan for them. Lets release an inferior product deliberately! What could they possibly have to gain from that? What indeed.
It's been my experience that beta testers of most MMORPGs are just a whole lot of white noise of conflicting opinion that the developers don't invest much time or manpower in paying any attention to. Harsh reality: right here and here. You don't spend years developing games and take the opinions of a horde of self-serving, untrained public beta testers as superior to your own. Not unless you want your game to suck, because they will ruin it if you let them.