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General: The Doubtful Gamer
SBFord
Former Associate EditorMember LegendaryPosts: 33,129
In Bill Murphy's latest column for MMORPG.com, he takes on the Doubtful Gamer. You know the type. These are the folks who, for right or wrong, like to rain on our parade of joy at the next game coming down the road. But Bill has sage words for the Doubtful Gamers and for we who love 'em. Check out Bill's column and then let him know what you think.
Last week I decided to spend my column space talking about how fortunate I feel to be a part of this current MMO surge we’re in the midst of. The comments, shockingly, were mostly positive responses. But I feel like addressing something else, in what I hope is a non-controversial manner. This isn’t aimed at one person in particular, and I don’t mean any of what I say in an attacking sense. But I’m worried, folks. I’m worried about the doubtful gamers we have here on the forums. No, I don’t mean the delightful Edward Gorey tale “The Doubtful Guest”. That little guy is cute. These folks aren’t quite as cuddly and likable. The Doubtful Guest steals bath towels. The doubtful gamer steals joy.
Read more of Bill Murphy's column, The Doubtful Gamer.
Comments
you cheated with your images. The last image is the same as "the angry nerd"
Beautiful. Very nice
Possibly one of the best columns I've read in a while. .. .. Can't believe it came from Bill....
I'm positive I would be labeled as a "doubtful gamer". But I think the perception of what motivates the doubtful gamer is still not quite understood.
I wasn't always a doubtful gamer. I use to be a very enthusiastic gamer. I looked forward to new MMOs with great anticipation. Over the years however, I've seen countless MMOs rise and fall, many of which were vastly overhyped. And there's the core of it, for me anyways.
Hype.
As a doubtful gamer, I can't stand hype. It annoys me to no end, like being in an elevator with someone who won't get off their cellphone. Hearing endless chatter about how "awsome", "groundbreaking", and "innovative" a new MMO will be grates on my nerves.
Why? Quite simply, I'm sick of the cycle.
Time and time again in the modern MMO market, gamers get whipped up into a ravenous frenzy over the next new MMO. The game could be a month, or years, away from release, yet players paint pictures, and worst of all, opinions and reviews of MMOs long before they ever play them. They create impossible images about just how good the games will be so that, when the games are finally released, their self created beliefs of what the MMO would be comes crashing down around them.
Half finished or outright missing game mechanics, bugs, exploits, or game mechanics that are just plain boring in practice even though they sounded good on paper.
Yet despite this cycle of over-hyping MMOs, and failed expectations, so many gamers can't seem to stop from getting caught up in all of it.
That's where I as a doubtful gamer fall into the picture. I am the anti-hype. I don't want said MMO to fail or be bad. If anything, I want it to be a fun and enjoyable MMO, so I have another decent choice in MMOs to play.
The criticism from the doubtful gamer is not a bad thing. By questioning the valididity of the design choices of developers, we encourage critical thinking and analysis of game mechanics. This can help expose the "sounds good on paper" mechanics by offering alternative views or issues that were not otherwise considered before.
In the end, realize that the doubtful gamer does not want failure, they want success. We are simply jaded from past failures, and are much more hesitant to support an MMO until we have hard evidence that said MMO is good. That means actually seeing the finished product in action.
Forming an opinion on whether an MMO is good or not should be based around actually partaking in the finished game, and not being caught up in hype like so many people do these days.
Insightful article and another good read. Thanks.
Don't stop believin'...
- Journey
doubtful gamer here. judging by the last 5 to 6 years, my doubts are justified.
I don't mind doubtful gamers. Recent history has not shown any AAA companies can release an MMO that is anywhere near as good as the hype they put out about the games.
What really gets on my nerves are the people who repeatedly whine about how WoW has destroyed their ability to enjoy playing games. If the "old school" games are better, go play them. What? They're boring? They have a low population? Well, duh, people got tired of playing them. That's why we're all doubtfully looking at all the new MMO games coming out to see if any of them are decent. Quit whining about it and play something else or find something else to do.
I can not remember winning or losing a single debate on the internet.
Very well said. How can you not be doubtful about this industry as a whole when you see consistently mediocre games being released none of which come close to living up to the hype that preceeded them. I do hope upcoming games like Rift, SWTOR, TERA, etc. can change this, but I am certainly not getting my hopes up. I do wish one of these games would base their avatar advancement on skill rather than levels and present some challenges instead of giving in to the "I want it now" crowd.
Another misconception.
The main reason why people praise oldschool games, yet no longer play them, is because those games are not what they used to be.
For example for me, I loved UO and SWG. Both UO and SWG however, are drastically different from what they used to be, because many of their core mechanics have been altered to mimic, you guessed it, WoW.
These two comments echo my sentiments as well as Ceridith's second comment. Very well said.
Lump me solidly in the doubtful gamer catagory.
Einherjar_LC says: WTB the true successor to UO or Asheron's Call pst!
Great read and i agree with many points.
I have thought about leaving this community many times as the rampant negativity is exhausting to read after a while. I know i could just not read it but I come on here to read and discuss MMO's and there are very few positive threads.
Also i have given up on the EVE forum community as the negativity is out on control there. So this is really all i have left for forum communities. So come on people these are just GAMES lets have some god damn fun!!!!!!!!
I would love for there to be a section set up where you can only discuss MMO's in a positive light.
Playing: PO, EVE
Waiting for: WoD
Favourite MMOs: VG, EVE, FE and DDO
Any person who expresses rage and loathing for an MMO is preposterous. He or she is like a person who has put on full armor and attacked a hot fudge sundae.
Some doubtful gamers are helpfull and point our valid points.
Others are viscious and, I believe, purposely try to rain on the party. They are the annoying guy at the pep rally screaming "we're going to lose" when everyone else is excited about the upcoming game or they are the disfunctional lunatic holding a street sign stating "The end is near!!" Doom & Gloom for ever?? Geeez...
Being doubtful doesn't really mean much to me. Whats the point of being doubtful of a game that you have no relation to? Questioning features because you think that maybe somewhere the execution could be off, or the developer won't deliver, may encourage critical thinking, but not constructive reasoning.
Games are not as simple as we pretend they are. A feature list is kind of a road map that developers hand out to players to tell them what they should expect to see. The reality of these features could be very different, and sometimes it may not even be noticeable to the developers until the game is 2 years into development.
What we have here, on this forum, are many complaints on systems that people don't understand, or don't want to understand. One thing we cannot ever do is know what the finalized product will be before it has been created. Trying to decry developers intentions by stating their systems may be false, won't work out that way, or pretending to know better then them, isn't really a good basis to improve players qualities of gaming.
Some "doubtful gamers" seem more pessimistic then doubtful, spending their time trying to even out the hype as if it is there job to keep players grounded. Hype and expectation in my belief are just two major problems I see with upcoming MMOs and their failure to meet player "demands". On the other hand, on these forums, misinformation is another big part of what keeps players from playing a game they could find enjoyable, and this misinformation is often times spread by those that are "doubtful" that a company is able to deliver on their feature set.
Maybe my lines between "doubtful" and "hater" are skewed, but on these forums those with hatred consider themselves just "doubtful".
In my book, I'd rather have a player play a game they were interested in and decide they don't like it, instead of being fearful of trying the next game because they are doubtful the game will provide a fun and engrossing experience. Gamers, doubtful or certain on their stance on upcoming games are not weights to be balanced on a scale. We don't need to balance eachother out. There are no winners or losers here. We are all here for the same thing.
Doubtful gamers do have a relation to the game they're being critical of. They are interested in the concept of the game, and want it to be good, otherwise they wouldn't bother.
I believe that there does need to be a balancing out with regards to hype. Allowing hype to run rampant and unchecked essentially what the past six years has reaped with regards to grossly overhyped games that fell flat on their faces because they fell short of what they tried to claim they would be.
It's hype that leads to box sales past and into the millions, yet merely a fraction of those in subscribers.
By continuing to allow ourselves as consumers of MMOs to be lead by the monster that is hype, we continue to tell developers and publishers that it's okay to put out a half-baked product, because we'll buy it anyways so long as they make the game look good, even if it sucks.
If we cull hype down to a more reasonable level, and not allow ourselves to be blindfolded by it, we will stop rewarding developers and publishers for putting out poor products.
I suppose Im kind of a doubtful gamer... but Im not really trying to rain on anybodys parade.
It can be a challenge to remain in the middle though: avoiding to fall in the fanboy trap, or the hater trap. And I gotta say: this site is amazing for practicing self-control. Remember to follow the rules when PvPing on the forums, people!
I'm way past doubtful gamer. How can I not be? Every release since WoW has been basically a carbon copy of that game. The ones that haven't been copies failed miserably.
I won't apologize that the last worthwhile game was in 2001, or whenever DAoC was released. I will give it up for EVE, since it is unique,well done, and not a copy. So let's push it to 2003(or whatever date is was).
There is no excuse why DDO, LOTRO, Vanguard, AoC, STO, EQ2, or WAR should not have been successes. These games were made by competent developers. It makes no sense why some of them are now f2p, and others are just barely getting by. Yea, call me doubtful.
This isn't necessarily true, not all people on this site are interested in the concept when they start talking poorly on an intended feature.
When I used the term relation, I meant more so as a first hand relation, as in something that you can change with your critical ideas. Perhaps this is a partial reasoning why we see more posts in the form of attacks on design choices instead of constructive posts on what could change a feature they believe won't work, into one that will. The fact that no matter what they say, the feature won't change.
I don't agree with this, actually. Balancing hype isn't helping anyone, its confusing the situation. MMOs are based on the idea that great gameplay will increase longevity and thereby increase monetary gains. It doesn't stop at the box sale (well, with games like GWs it does) it trickles down the line to increased growth and thereby increased opportunity.
Games that don't follow through with creating a good, lasting game with few problems find out very quickly. Many people cite AoC and WAR, maybe even STO and FFXIV as being games that were "flops" because of the major issues they had upon release that couldn't guarantee longevity. What you see now though is that the games actually felt those effects regardless of how popular these games were in development.
The only good thing about trying to balance hype is, if you bring it down nominally, then excitement can only grow instead of decline. If you expect the best game ever you'll always be disappointed. If you expect a good game that will take up some modest time, then you may be pleasantly surprised.
The problem is, here, we find no balance between this. You have those that argue the game will fail, and then those that argue the game will succeed. We need to thrive in the middle ground, and yet, everyone is too busy arguing to find it.
The only way to do that is stop pre-ordering or don't buy at all if there are issues not being fixed in CB/OB.
As a general rule I don't buy MMO games until a few months after release. Single player games a few weeks. That way most major patching is over and done with, communities have settled and the games are usually playable.
Secondly people should stop thinking MMO means it's a game for them. To clarify that point I'll just say is every FPS for every FPS fan? Is every RTS? No.
As for your point that people get too caught up in hype, that may be true, but people also get too caught up on themselves, and think what they want is what everyone should want.
I see it quite often from those who would fall under the doubtful gamer tag. Every MMO that releases shouldn't be required to possess the same feature set or ideology, I see this far to often in peoples rants. In short the phrase "that doesn't belong in an MMO" is by far the most self serving statement I've seen on this site.
If you're here to express your concerns about game development, by all means do so. However as this article suggests be mindful that you're ideas aren't always going to be what everyone wants. As well as state those concerns in a manner that doesn't rain on everyone else's parade or bait others into arguments. <--(based on semantics, or personal preference).
For every minute you are angry , you lose 60 seconds of happiness."-Emerson
I agree wholeheartedly with the thoughts above.
MMO gamers do not have an inalienable right for every MMO to appeal to them personally. As with every game in history, each appeals to a different set of people. It is not necessarily a crime, or a "bad game", if a game is not enjoyed by every gamer.
Bill wrote an article about MMO Puberty last week. Personally, I thought he should have taken the concept one step further, in that the MMO community as a whole is also hitting puberty. So much self-centered thought, overly emotional and obsessive behavior, overblown senses of entitlement, irrational beliefs, and general angst within this community, as players move from their "first-loves", and attempt to find their next love through a jaded prism. These are group-think adolescent behavior patterns - the worst I've seen in any gaming community I've ever been a part of.
In any event, I enjoyed the article.
Hell hath no fury like an MMORPG player scorned.
This ^ . So many devs jumped in the half-baked fiasco, therefore, another doubtful here. The sad thing is that I am beta testing an MMO, which happens to be another piece if garbage. There is only 1 MMO left I will give it a try, hopefully in beta. After that, I guess I will go back to RTS.
You're confusing a tree with a forest. The doubters complain about particular MMO features because they like the overall concept of the MMO, or other portions of the MMO. For example with SWTOR, many people like the idea of a new star wars MMO, but they don't like particular features. Or they may alternatively like some concepts like the crafting system or story driven element, but they feel that the space flight system is lacking.
Yes, their criticism may be coming from a selfish standpoint, but the fact still remains that they still have interest in the game being a good game. That's not to say that they demand that the game revolve around their personal preferences, simply that they state that they would prefer one or more mechanics align to what they feel would fit them better. It is usually through this type of criticism that certain shortcomings in game mechanics are revealed.
MMO's should be based on the principle that making a well thought out and planned MMO wit decent gameplay will succeed. The reality is quite different lately.
Look at how many MMOs that were released in the last 6 years failed to meet their expectations. Gamers were promised the sky, and delivered medicrity. Games with huge budgets, tens of million, even 100 million dollar budget, falling flat on their faces. Each and every one of these games, the hype was through the stratosphere.
Yet despite that, many of these games still managed to make a profit, primarily through box sales, and more lately through lifetime subs. The worst offenders are Cryptic's STO and CO.
Without the ridiculous level of hype, these games wouldn't sucker in so many gullable gamers who are desperate for a decent MMO to come along. So long as gamers allow themselves to be strung along by hype, the more the cycle will continue. Developers and Publishers will continue to half-ass MMO production so lond as consumers keep paying off the development cost by gobbling up products based on hype.
If criticism of upcoming games by doubters is causing confusion, I say good. It's better that gamers not get caught up in a decision as to whether or not a game is good or not before it's even released. Instead, that they wait for the game to release and wait for reviews until deciding whether or not an MMO is worth their money.
It's time we break the cycle of hype.
Well I have one thing to say to you Mr Murphy is ..
Throw away your rose colored glasses.
Better an optimist than a synic.
It was an enjoyable read.
Talking bout the issues..and keepin it funky.
I am doubtful gamer now. I didn't used to be. Prior to 2004 I was burned a few times by games that promised much, much more than they delivered. After 2004 I was burned every single time. I buy a copy of most every MMO that comes out and download a lot of F2P titles as well. If you include MUDs, I guess I've tried around 75+ games. When you put that much effort into a hobby and then are beaten down every time you get your hopes you for six years, you lose hope. I don't see how I could be positive, being a doubtful gamer is all that is left.
yet anybody that post on this forum, and doesnt buy hype from developers and question and critize the mmorpg games, automatically get labled a troll and banned from forums like this.
What kind of motivation is that on the very people that try to get developer to actually deliver on what they say?
Over the years, I learned not to buy hype. even outside the MMORPG gaming world.
Philosophy of MMO Game Design