They shifted their programmers to the NWN project and more then likely some yet unannounced project, and they have you alpha/beta testing the key component of the new game .
Current game magazine rumors have the as yet unannounced MMO being (possibly) a 'dinosaur themed MMO.' I don't know if it is supposed to be an actual MMO, or another Online Multiplayer Game like the NWN game they're making.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
so fantastic that jack emmert (cryptic ceo) when talking about the next game they are making after sto said
"i am not going to be one of those developers who starts bitching about the reviewers or bitching about the customers. thats stupid. we have got to change and this is what we have got to do to change"
and
"From our point of view, we just had to take a look at ourselves and kind of change the way we were doing things, and with the tools and the resources with our previous MMOs, we knew that Neverwinter had to be the highest possible quality, and we had to improve, dramatically, everything that we did."
ummm, yeah. the ceo admits the game sucks but you say its awesome.
ill take jacks word on this one. and i wont be buying another cryptic or atari product. but if you like it, have fun.
so fantastic that jack emmert (cryptic ceo) when talking about the next game they are making after sto said
Wasn't he also the one who said they don't want to be the company that makes "MMOs" any longer, they want to be known for making Online Multiplayer Fantasy Games (OMFG's)?!
So how much wildlife is there on planets these days?
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
I totally and 100% disagree with this, but that's my opinion. Saying "I like it" is a valid argument, it's their opinion. They can say they like because of the space combat, you may not. That still makes their arugment they like it perfectly valid for them. People like different things in games and some of you cannot grasp that. I'm not here on these forums to convince you to play x game. Most of the time it comes from getting in the beta or getting the demo and trying it out for youself. I will never base my opinion of trying a game because majority or miniority are for or against a game. I've said this a million times, if I listened to people on this site about mmos I would not be playing anything.
These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game? I guess we should all be playing WoW then huh?
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
I totally and 100% disagree with this, but that's my opinion. Saying "I like it" is a valid argument, it's their opinion. They can say they like because of the space combat, you may not. That still makes their arugment they like it perfectly valid for them. People like different things in games and some of you cannot grasp that. I'm not here on these forums to convince you to play x game. Most of the time it comes from getting in the beta or getting the demo and trying it out for youself. I will never base my opinion of trying a game because majority or miniority are for or against a game. I've said this a million times, if I listened to people on this site about mmos I would not be playing anything.
These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game? I guess we should all be playing WoW then huh?
Did you see the underlined part ? I like for these reasons, is a valid arguement . Generic statements just don't cut . There are alot of games i like and didn't like and I can state reasons for them . These encompassing generic statements lead nowhere and are potentially misleading.
This is definitely NOT a fantastic game - and I say that as a lifelong Trekkie, Lifetime subscriber to Star Trek Online, and as someone who fervently hopes that it will one day merit the title of this thread.
There's three fundamental flaws to the game:
1. Combat - it's tedious. Space combat is mildly tedious, a speed up factor of something like 25-50% would probably solve it and make it more enjoyable (make Cruisers as fast as Escorts and Escorts into true "zippin' right by ya" fighters). Ground combat, on the other hand, is a mind numbing snore-fest that kills me every time. It's just plain boring. Any Trek fans seen the DS9 Season 7 Episode "Siege of AR-558"? - now THAT's a phasor fight. What's in STO can be done with a single hand and minimal to almost no attention as you while away endless minutes killing a single mob out of the far too numerous trash mobs every single ground map seems to have.
2. Content - though the Genesis engine does a decent job of generating random terrain for ground missions (a small respite before you realise you'll have to fight 256 nearly identical mobs to open a door 23 feet 6 inches away), the variety of content just isn't there. Almost every mission is "kill 5 squadrons of ships (3 of which will be identical)" or "defeat 5 squads of baddies (4 of which will be identical)" or "investigate 5 anomolies" or "click on 5 screens". If combat were fixed, they might get away with it, but since the fun factor is already so relatively low, they don't.
3. Star Trek - they didn't bring it. It doesn't FEEL like Star Trek. A more appropriate title would be Star WARS Trek. From the moment you phase in to the lounge looking out at windows viewing ships taking on a Borg cube, you're in a perpetual state of war with just about everyone around you. The difficulty with the Star Trek IP is that it isn't (the most recent movie aside) all about going in gung-ho and blasting everything in sight. Most fans I knew (and I led quite a large fleet awaing the games release) were interested in an MMO that, yes would have a good smack of combat in it, but might also let us be the guy making first contact, or saving some colony from a strange and mysterious disease or whatever. That is, we didn't want perpetual combat from first mission to last. For myself personally, I especially didn't want perpetual underwhelming combat most of all, and on ground especially, this is what we have.
As a fan of the IP, I still hope STO succeeds. Knowing just how dedicated us Trek fans can be, I'd say of all the games that had a failed launch (and there is no other way to describe STO's launch), then this one, perhaps more than most, has a chance - even now - of turning it around and making a moderately and reasonably profitable MMO for Cryptic (there's no chance of it ever being a smash hit any more). I think the odds of that are more against than in favour, but still, I live in hope. The fleet I led, with over 100 members (many with more than a years membership) one week prior to launch has just 6 active members left to it currently playing the game.
Still, anyone describing STO, now or especially then, as a "fantastic" MMO, either doesn't know MMO's too well, has a startlingly low threshold for excitement or is blinded by their love of the IP.
This completely describes my sentiments on this game as well. Such a shame, given the fervant fanbase it would be nice if someone bought the rights from Cryptic and relaunched this sad excuse for a game.
Completely devoid of the soul of Star Trek. Reskinned CO for a cash grab, nothing more.
Wasn't he also the one who said they don't want to be the company that makes "MMOs" any longer, they want to be known for making Online Multiplayer Fantasy Games (OMFG's)?!
So how much wildlife is there on planets these days?
Actually, the name they've given them is Online Multi-player Games (OMGs).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
This has to be a fake post meant to troll for responses. We all know STO is sub par in every way.
What so you feel you can tell me what I should like or dislike? I explained why I thinks it's a fantastic game I love the mission structures, most missions/quests in MMO's are dull as dishwater. Go get 12 wolf skins, 50 wolves down the line you have your 12 skins. Return and get your reward. Very few quests are multi-faceted and involve doing more that one or two things. Or if they do, it's the same thing in a grindfest of repetition. I also think they captured the essence of what Star Trek kind of means to me.
Also, if I was you I would stop using the Royal 'We' in statements. Or if you do at least clarify who 'We ' are? For all I know it means you and your cat Tiddles. If you are speaking for other people I would be careful about that. Like telling people what they can and can't like, people don't always take kindly to it.
Tiddles LOL Regardless of the OP's post or opinions, has a good sense of humor. thanks for the laugh.
After playing Age of Conan (AOC), having high expectations and hitting my head against a development company that cared so little for it's own game. To me just having a game that a) Works, b) Works well, no lag or latency c) Doesn't have glaring visual bugs d) Seems to have some ongoing development I agree with - I am as happy as a pig in a sty.
So in other words you'd rather have polished poor gameplay over good slightly buggy gameplay. You're likely to find yourself fairly alone in that respect.
AoC has improved as much as any game on the market since launch. Their last expansion by itself had more content that STO has had in the entirety of its lifespan.
Your opinion seems to run pretty contrary to the normal flow of human logic. Can't say I'm finding much good in it.
After playing Age of Conan (AOC), having high expectations and hitting my head against a development company that cared so little for it's own game. To me just having a game that a) Works, b) Works well, no lag or latency c) Doesn't have glaring visual bugs d) Seems to have some ongoing development I agree with - I am as happy as a pig in a sty.
So in other words you'd rather have polished poor gameplay over good slightly buggy gameplay. You're likely to find yourself fairly alone in that respect.
AoC has improved as much as any game on the market since launch. Their last expansion by itself had more content that STO has had in the entirety of its lifespan.
Your opinion seems to run pretty contrary to the normal flow of human logic. Can't say I'm finding much good in it.
I like having a game that works (performance wise) with little to no issues. Because what it shows me is the developer gives a damn, whether you agree with the direction of their product or not.
I thought AOC was pretty boring as far as content goes. Having since played a lot of other MMO's AOC is by far the least imaginative. So yeah it's nice to have lots of content, but you need to work into that an interesting narrative and AOC fails on that score. I would sooner something be interesting/fun and short lived, I don't need an MMO to be a sort of digital representation of reading War and Peace. Funcom forgot to add the 'fun' element into their content, ironic considering their name.
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
Now I have a person patronising me saying I have to convince them it is truly better. Well no I don't, I made a statement that I think the game is fantastic. Whether you agree with that or not, fair enough I don't really care. Personally I am sick of all these people telling me what constitutes a good MMO - most of them are so far up their own arse they never see daylight. Having listened to these so called officinado's in the past I have avoided good games like STO and WoW. But then I am not trying to find the meaning of my life within a game as some of these people seem to be trying to do. I want it to work, work well, and have a bit of fun. To that end STO is a fantastic game as is WoW.
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
Now I have a person patronising me saying I have to convince them it is truly better. Well no I don't, I made a statement that I think the game is fantastic. Whether you agree with that or not, fair enough I don't really care. Personally I am sick of all these people telling me what constitutes a good MMO - most of them are so far up their own arse they never see daylight. Having listened to these so called officinado's in the past I have avoided good games like STO and WoW. But then I am not trying to find the meaning of my life within a game as some of these people seem to be trying to do. I want it to work, work well, and have a bit of fun. To that end STO is a fantastic game as is WoW.
There is nothing in STO , that's not a part of any other MMO that I've ever played. In fact, in my opinion they've done it in a fashion that frankly, left me completely un-impressed. Ex: the character movements and gestures remind me of something that may have been cuting edge ten years ago , but frankly now are just old and dated looking. In fact everything about STO is dated , could it be because the engine is just a refinement of CoX ? We are entering 2011 and we get a game that would best fit 6 to 8 years ago.
WoW never entered the conversation , from my end . I hate WoW and don't play it, I don't hold it up as a shining example of anything , other then how a game dev successfully adapted a changing gaming universe and survived. WoW is a credit to the devs adaptiblity and company that chose an engine that could run on pretty well any system .
You make a post and state that it's a fantastic game . I reply , what makes it so fantastic ? In your original post , you mention mission architecture , which is incidently linear and simlar to CO , CoX . Please tell me , how is that patronizing ? I played CoX and CO , I see no difference. You're just butt hurt that more people disagree with you then support you. I basically challenged you to define a good MMO , if it's the story, fine . If it's comradere , fine. If it's crafting , great . If it's the feeling of accomplishment , fantastic.
I personnaly found STO lacking on more fronts then I want to get into . To me STO is a good single player game , and then it's over . As and MMO it really fallls short. An MMO should be strong in all the aspects I listed above and then some , STO isn't.
Though it'll always be an uphill battle to try to convince a certain segment of the disillusioned MMO population (especially on these boards) that it's OK to like a game that the 'elite' have labelled as a failure, I have to applaud your patience in explaining in a clear, articulate manner why it's irrelevant what others' think about your opinion.
For some as yet unexplained reason, people have this misguided belief that if someone doesn't believe the same way as the "majority" then they must be some misinformed neanderthal in need of some serious counseling.
Folks, he likes the game. He wants to share his reasonable, well-articulated thoughts with others who may have been dissuaded from trying the game because of others' biased opinions. There is nothing wrong with that. It's OK to disagree but it's disingenuous to try to convince him he's wrong. It's his opinion!
This game is so fantastic, it is selling for $2.50 at amazon, not even a year after release. I bet everyone who paid $240-300 for a lifetime sub is just tickled pink over it. And if it is so fantastic, why is next to no one playing it, and selling for less than the price of a burger? The free market does not lie.
Because it's his opinion that it is a fantastic game. And no matter how much that bothers you and others, people do have different opinions on what they like in video games and other things in life.
And the 2.50 sale is the end of year sale on amazon. It won't last long, check the other link. Amazon is selling other video games cheap. Also so is STEAM. I guess all those other MMOs steam is selling cheap right now means they are all doomed? OMG OMG!! Drama drama drama
There is nothing in STO , that's not a part of any other MMO that I've ever played. In fact, in my opinion they've done it in a fashion that frankly, left me completely un-impressed. Ex: the character movements and gestures remind me of something that may have been cuting edge ten years ago , but frankly now are just old and dated looking. In fact everything about STO is dated , could it be because the engine is just a refinement of CoX ? We are entering 2011 and we get a game that would best fit 6 to 8 years ago.
Who cares? A game can be good and it doesn't have to re-invent the wheel. In fact it is sometimes better to take what works and refine it, than go off in a new direction.
WoW never entered the conversation , from my end . I hate WoW and don't play it, I don't hold it up as a shining example of anything , other then how a game dev successfully adapted a changing gaming universe and survived. WoW is a credit to the devs adaptiblity and company that chose an engine that could run on pretty well any system .
Never said you mentioned WoW. I said I have heard enough from people telling me what constitutes a good MMO and have in the past avoided good games like WoW because of their rhetoric. From where I stand a lot of people seem to belittle games like WoW for no other reason that what appears to be sour grapes. Yes they make up all these convoluted arguments, but in essence there are people who avoid anything only because it's popular.
You make a post and state that it's a fantastic game . I reply , what makes it so fantastic ? In your original post , you mention mission architecture , which is incidently linear and simlar to CO , CoX . Please tell me , how is that patronizing ? I played CoX and CO , I see no difference. You're just butt hurt that more people disagree with you then support you. I basically challenged you to define a good MMO , if it's the story, fine . If it's comradere , fine. If it's crafting , great . If it's the feeling of accomplishment , fantastic.
You didn't reply, what makes it so fantastic? You replied that I had to defend my opinion and convince you that opinion has relevance. Which is something I don't feel I have to do at all. I think it's fantastic. There are numerous reasons for that thinking, some of which I have tried to convey. As a game it works - I am not use to that coming from Age of Conan. It works well, another major plus point - no lag/latency or fps issues. I like space combat, I like the mission structures the mix of space/away missions. I like the Star Trek feel, I like the way the developer is moving the game forward. In fact I found out I like Star Trek more than I initially realised. There are a whole host of reasons why I think the game is fantastic - for me is just gelled right from the demo.
I personnaly found STO lacking on more fronts then I want to get into . To me STO is a good single player game , and then it's over . As and MMO it really fallls short. An MMO should be strong in all the aspects I listed above and then some , STO isn't.
I don't personally think you can state what makes a good MMO. The general idea with an MMO is it has many facets that appeal to the various different traits of people. Some like combat while others like crafting, some like the random social encounters while others like scripted role playing. The whole thing with an MMO is it doesn't focus on appeasing one area but tries to cater for as many different tastes as possible. While doing this there are always going to be weak areas. Personally I can put up with a few weak areas if things like bugs are fixed, future development is open and the community is involved. That to me is why I pay the money, to help the game evolve.
Discuss the topic and respect other user's opinions. Discuss does not include, bait, flame, or topic hijack. Please remember to follow the RoC when posting. thanks.
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
Now I have a person patronising me saying I have to convince them it is truly better. Well no I don't, I made a statement that I think the game is fantastic. Whether you agree with that or not, fair enough I don't really care. Personally I am sick of all these people telling me what constitutes a good MMO - most of them are so far up their own arse they never see daylight. Having listened to these so called officinado's in the past I have avoided good games like STO and WoW. But then I am not trying to find the meaning of my life within a game as some of these people seem to be trying to do. I want it to work, work well, and have a bit of fun. To that end STO is a fantastic game as is WoW.
To me, this was not a port of a console game. You really want a port of a console game? Go play DCUO when it releases. Then you will understand what a true god aweful port is.
I am with the OP. STO is a good game. I started playing back in beta and I still play now. I don't play all that much but as a lifer, it is easy to come and go when I want. I will agree that even now, they still lack content at the end game. I have really enjoyed the weekly missions though, those have been some very interesting story lines. S3 allows you to turn off the grid in space and makes it look much better, that was a needed feature! I am also worried about the UGC. I am confident there are going to be some awesome stories created from the ST fans, but I am hoping they are not going to leave it up to the fans to generate all the new content. This game is in no way a fail and I disagree with the ratings the folks have been giving it. The game is also no where in danger, from what I can tell as there are always tons of people around every time I log in. I will say that I don't consider it my main MMO, but it is something I keep playing a couple times a week and when I play, I do enjoy myself. To me, it really does have the star trek feel, but there is a lot of things they need to still work on to make that "feel" even better and if you actually watch, they are trying to do just that. People are giving cryptic a hard time, but they are one of the few devs that are extremely active in the community and are really trying keep them updated. Show me other games where the devs are actively posting the content release schedules for everyone to see.
Good for you OP for liking the game. I still do to!
This game is so fantastic, it is selling for $2.50 at amazon, not even a year after release. I bet everyone who paid $240-300 for a lifetime sub is just tickled pink over it. And if it is so fantastic, why is next to no one playing it, and selling for less than the price of a burger? The free market does not lie.
Not at all. I am a lifer and have no problems with anyone selling it cheap. My only issues that I have as being a lifer is that if they do end up going free to play, I want to know how they will handle lifetime subs. I figure it will probably be something like lotro is doing. And lets get real, there is absolutely no way you can say that next to no one is playing it. Does it have 10 million subscribers, of course not. But as long as they are making money, then they have plenty of folks playing.
This game is so fantastic, it is selling for $2.50 at amazon, not even a year after release. I bet everyone who paid $240-300 for a lifetime sub is just tickled pink over it. And if it is so fantastic, why is next to no one playing it, and selling for less than the price of a burger? The free market does not lie.
Not at all. I am a lifer and have no problems with anyone selling it cheap. My only issues that I have as being a lifer is that if they do end up going free to play, I want to know how they will handle lifetime subs. I figure it will probably be something like lotro is doing. And lets get real, there is absolutely no way you can say that next to no one is playing it. Does it have 10 million subscribers, of course not. But as long as they are making money, then they have plenty of folks playing.
That's not necessarily true. There is a difference between profitable and profitable enough.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
This game is so fantastic, it is selling for $2.50 at amazon, not even a year after release. I bet everyone who paid $240-300 for a lifetime sub is just tickled pink over it. And if it is so fantastic, why is next to no one playing it, and selling for less than the price of a burger? The free market does not lie.
Not at all. I am a lifer and have no problems with anyone selling it cheap. My only issues that I have as being a lifer is that if they do end up going free to play, I want to know how they will handle lifetime subs. I figure it will probably be something like lotro is doing. And lets get real, there is absolutely no way you can say that next to no one is playing it. Does it have 10 million subscribers, of course not. But as long as they are making money, then they have plenty of folks playing.
That's not necessarily true. There is a difference between profitable and profitable enough.
Who cares? we dont own the company so we are not making money from it. From a gamer perspective it is true.
actually if a studio is not making money, they do not put money into content (ie STO, the exception being the c-store which is a cash grab). so from a gamers perspective, if you want a game to improve, people playing it is critical.
ps- this is one of the main reasons why cryptic has not fixed many major issues's (ie ground combat, content, sector space, crafting, klingons content, etc, etc)... their is just no point in dumping resources you would have to borrow into a game that is never going to attract a decent sized customer base due to its horrible launch and continued problems.
if you think this is wrong i suggest you look at eve or wow and see all the massive expansions they have made.... because they have customers.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
actually if a studio is not making money, they do not put money into content (ie STO, the exception being the c-store which is a cash grab). so from a gamers perspective, if you want a game to improve, people playing it is critical.
ps- this is one of the main reasons why cryptic has not fixed many major issues's (ie ground combat, content, sector space, crafting, klingons content, etc, etc)... their is just no point in dumping resources you would have to borrow into a game that is never going to attract a decent sized customer base due to its horrible launch and continued problems.
if you think this is wrong i suggest you look at eve or wow and see all the massive expansions they have made.... because they have customers.
While I disagree entirely with the OP's view of STO, I do support his right to voice his opinion. However, the post I've quoted is a perfect explanation of the amazing attitude some defenders of the game have to those of us inside the STO forums themselves trying to point out it's many many flaws - comments like "good riddance, another one gone" to a departing player posting a detailed critique of the game as they walk out the door always amaze me.
MMO's are subject to a huge network effort - as the member I quoted so well explained. World of Warcrafts primary success now lies in it's own success, that is, it's stratospheric subscriber base allows for such a large development budget that the content generation cycle is on steroids and the release of new content serves to bring in ever more subscribers, completing a virtuous circle for Blizzard.
STO is suffering that same circle in reverse, as a declining subscriber base leads to a slower development cycle which in turn of course leads to more decline in the subscriber base. With each Season now 3 months apart, Seasons containing less content than originally promised (Sector Space revamp was the only major change to Season 3) and Weekly Episodes currently on hiatus supposedly to concentrate on Season releases, my fear is that STO is crossing below a threshold, where the game is failing to improve enough, quickly enough, to arrest a slow but inexorable decline in subscriber numbers that, for reasons passing common sense, is cheered on by some of the games very own defenders.
actually if a studio is not making money, they do not put money into content (ie STO, the exception being the c-store which is a cash grab). so from a gamers perspective, if you want a game to improve, people playing it is critical.
ps- this is one of the main reasons why cryptic has not fixed many major issues's (ie ground combat, content, sector space, crafting, klingons content, etc, etc)... their is just no point in dumping resources you would have to borrow into a game that is never going to attract a decent sized customer base due to its horrible launch and continued problems.
if you think this is wrong i suggest you look at eve or wow and see all the massive expansions they have made.... because they have customers.
While I disagree entirely with the OP's view of STO, I do support his right to voice his opinion. However, the post I've quoted is a perfect explanation of the amazing attitude some defenders of the game have to those of us inside the STO forums themselves trying to point out it's many many flaws - comments like "good riddance, another one gone" to a departing player posting a detailed critique of the game as they walk out the door always amaze me.
MMO's are subject to a huge network effort - as the member I quoted so well explained. World of Warcrafts primary success now lies in it's own success, that is, it's stratospheric subscriber base allows for such a large development budget that the content generation cycle is on steroids and the release of new content serves to bring in ever more subscribers, completing a virtuous circle for Blizzard.
STO is suffering that same circle in reverse, as a declining subscriber base leads to a slower development cycle which in turn of course leads to more decline in the subscriber base. With each Season now 3 months apart, Seasons containing less content than originally promised (Sector Space revamp was the only major change to Season 3) and Weekly Episodes currently on hiatus supposedly to concentrate on Season releases, my fear is that STO is crossing below a threshold, where the game is failing to improve enough, quickly enough, to arrest a slow but inexorable decline in subscriber numbers that, for reasons passing common sense, is cheered on by some of the games very own defenders.
It actually did this in the third month , after ninety days the population drop noticably. People are willing to give a game a benefit of the doubt. usually it runs 90 days , I've noticed. As the game approaches the 1 year mark the decline will be appreciably noticable with the new games due to come out at that time, and 1 year pre-paid sub expire.
Comments
Current game magazine rumors have the as yet unannounced MMO being (possibly) a 'dinosaur themed MMO.' I don't know if it is supposed to be an actual MMO, or another Online Multiplayer Game like the NWN game they're making.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
so fantastic that jack emmert (cryptic ceo) when talking about the next game they are making after sto said
"i am not going to be one of those developers who starts bitching about the reviewers or bitching about the customers. thats stupid. we have got to change and this is what we have got to do to change"
and
"From our point of view, we just had to take a look at ourselves and kind of change the way we were doing things, and with the tools and the resources with our previous MMOs, we knew that Neverwinter had to be the highest possible quality, and we had to improve, dramatically, everything that we did."
ummm, yeah. the ceo admits the game sucks but you say its awesome.
ill take jacks word on this one. and i wont be buying another cryptic or atari product. but if you like it, have fun.
http://www.massively.com/2010/08/23/massively-exclusive-jack-emmert-speaks-about-neverwinter-and-a/
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Wasn't he also the one who said they don't want to be the company that makes "MMOs" any longer, they want to be known for making Online Multiplayer Fantasy Games (OMFG's)?!
So how much wildlife is there on planets these days?
The sad fact is that this game was designed for consoles and people who play consoles. ( this is fatal design flaw of STO ) The other sad truth , is it never made it to consoles. PC MMO players expect and demand more of their games, console players really don't .
CDF members want this game to succeed , we all get it. Coming on MMO forums where , MMO's are PC based and trying to tell us that this is a "Fanastic Game " really just causes people to come out of the wood work to ridicule those individuals. These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game. The defence of "I like it " , doesn't really work. If you want to convince us that it's truely better , tell us what it does better then other games on the market. Short of graphics , there is imho , nothing else. Sticking a Star Trek skin on Champions Online is obviously not enough.
I totally and 100% disagree with this, but that's my opinion. Saying "I like it" is a valid argument, it's their opinion. They can say they like because of the space combat, you may not. That still makes their arugment they like it perfectly valid for them. People like different things in games and some of you cannot grasp that. I'm not here on these forums to convince you to play x game. Most of the time it comes from getting in the beta or getting the demo and trying it out for youself. I will never base my opinion of trying a game because majority or miniority are for or against a game. I've said this a million times, if I listened to people on this site about mmos I would not be playing anything.
These forums are full of people that know what makes and goes into making a good game? I guess we should all be playing WoW then huh?
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Did you see the underlined part ? I like for these reasons, is a valid arguement . Generic statements just don't cut . There are alot of games i like and didn't like and I can state reasons for them . These encompassing generic statements lead nowhere and are potentially misleading.
This completely describes my sentiments on this game as well. Such a shame, given the fervant fanbase it would be nice if someone bought the rights from Cryptic and relaunched this sad excuse for a game.
Completely devoid of the soul of Star Trek. Reskinned CO for a cash grab, nothing more.
Actually, the name they've given them is Online Multi-player Games (OMGs).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Tiddles LOL Regardless of the OP's post or opinions, has a good sense of humor. thanks for the laugh.
So in other words you'd rather have polished poor gameplay over good slightly buggy gameplay. You're likely to find yourself fairly alone in that respect.
AoC has improved as much as any game on the market since launch. Their last expansion by itself had more content that STO has had in the entirety of its lifespan.
Your opinion seems to run pretty contrary to the normal flow of human logic. Can't say I'm finding much good in it.
I like having a game that works (performance wise) with little to no issues. Because what it shows me is the developer gives a damn, whether you agree with the direction of their product or not.
I thought AOC was pretty boring as far as content goes. Having since played a lot of other MMO's AOC is by far the least imaginative. So yeah it's nice to have lots of content, but you need to work into that an interesting narrative and AOC fails on that score. I would sooner something be interesting/fun and short lived, I don't need an MMO to be a sort of digital representation of reading War and Peace. Funcom forgot to add the 'fun' element into their content, ironic considering their name.
Now I have a person patronising me saying I have to convince them it is truly better. Well no I don't, I made a statement that I think the game is fantastic. Whether you agree with that or not, fair enough I don't really care. Personally I am sick of all these people telling me what constitutes a good MMO - most of them are so far up their own arse they never see daylight. Having listened to these so called officinado's in the past I have avoided good games like STO and WoW. But then I am not trying to find the meaning of my life within a game as some of these people seem to be trying to do. I want it to work, work well, and have a bit of fun. To that end STO is a fantastic game as is WoW.
There is nothing in STO , that's not a part of any other MMO that I've ever played. In fact, in my opinion they've done it in a fashion that frankly, left me completely un-impressed. Ex: the character movements and gestures remind me of something that may have been cuting edge ten years ago , but frankly now are just old and dated looking. In fact everything about STO is dated , could it be because the engine is just a refinement of CoX ? We are entering 2011 and we get a game that would best fit 6 to 8 years ago.
WoW never entered the conversation , from my end . I hate WoW and don't play it, I don't hold it up as a shining example of anything , other then how a game dev successfully adapted a changing gaming universe and survived. WoW is a credit to the devs adaptiblity and company that chose an engine that could run on pretty well any system .
You make a post and state that it's a fantastic game . I reply , what makes it so fantastic ? In your original post , you mention mission architecture , which is incidently linear and simlar to CO , CoX . Please tell me , how is that patronizing ? I played CoX and CO , I see no difference. You're just butt hurt that more people disagree with you then support you. I basically challenged you to define a good MMO , if it's the story, fine . If it's comradere , fine. If it's crafting , great . If it's the feeling of accomplishment , fantastic.
I personnaly found STO lacking on more fronts then I want to get into . To me STO is a good single player game , and then it's over . As and MMO it really fallls short. An MMO should be strong in all the aspects I listed above and then some , STO isn't.
@fallenlords
/applauds ... way to stick to your guns.
Though it'll always be an uphill battle to try to convince a certain segment of the disillusioned MMO population (especially on these boards) that it's OK to like a game that the 'elite' have labelled as a failure, I have to applaud your patience in explaining in a clear, articulate manner why it's irrelevant what others' think about your opinion.
For some as yet unexplained reason, people have this misguided belief that if someone doesn't believe the same way as the "majority" then they must be some misinformed neanderthal in need of some serious counseling.
Folks, he likes the game. He wants to share his reasonable, well-articulated thoughts with others who may have been dissuaded from trying the game because of others' biased opinions. There is nothing wrong with that. It's OK to disagree but it's disingenuous to try to convince him he's wrong. It's his opinion!
I bet everyone who paid $240-300 for a lifetime sub is just tickled pink over it.
And if it is so fantastic, why is next to no one playing it, and selling for less than the price of a burger?
The free market does not lie.
Because it's his opinion that it is a fantastic game. And no matter how much that bothers you and others, people do have different opinions on what they like in video games and other things in life.
And the 2.50 sale is the end of year sale on amazon. It won't last long, check the other link. Amazon is selling other video games cheap. Also so is STEAM. I guess all those other MMOs steam is selling cheap right now means they are all doomed? OMG OMG!! Drama drama drama
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
Discuss the topic and respect other user's opinions. Discuss does not include, bait, flame, or topic hijack. Please remember to follow the RoC when posting. thanks.
To me, this was not a port of a console game. You really want a port of a console game? Go play DCUO when it releases. Then you will understand what a true god aweful port is.
I am with the OP. STO is a good game. I started playing back in beta and I still play now. I don't play all that much but as a lifer, it is easy to come and go when I want. I will agree that even now, they still lack content at the end game. I have really enjoyed the weekly missions though, those have been some very interesting story lines. S3 allows you to turn off the grid in space and makes it look much better, that was a needed feature! I am also worried about the UGC. I am confident there are going to be some awesome stories created from the ST fans, but I am hoping they are not going to leave it up to the fans to generate all the new content. This game is in no way a fail and I disagree with the ratings the folks have been giving it. The game is also no where in danger, from what I can tell as there are always tons of people around every time I log in. I will say that I don't consider it my main MMO, but it is something I keep playing a couple times a week and when I play, I do enjoy myself. To me, it really does have the star trek feel, but there is a lot of things they need to still work on to make that "feel" even better and if you actually watch, they are trying to do just that. People are giving cryptic a hard time, but they are one of the few devs that are extremely active in the community and are really trying keep them updated. Show me other games where the devs are actively posting the content release schedules for everyone to see.
Good for you OP for liking the game. I still do to!
Not at all. I am a lifer and have no problems with anyone selling it cheap. My only issues that I have as being a lifer is that if they do end up going free to play, I want to know how they will handle lifetime subs. I figure it will probably be something like lotro is doing. And lets get real, there is absolutely no way you can say that next to no one is playing it. Does it have 10 million subscribers, of course not. But as long as they are making money, then they have plenty of folks playing.
That's not necessarily true. There is a difference between profitable and profitable enough.
Until you cancel your subscription, you are only helping to continue the cycle of mediocrity.
Who cares? we dont own the company so we are not making money from it. From a gamer perspective it is true.
actually if a studio is not making money, they do not put money into content (ie STO, the exception being the c-store which is a cash grab). so from a gamers perspective, if you want a game to improve, people playing it is critical.
ps- this is one of the main reasons why cryptic has not fixed many major issues's (ie ground combat, content, sector space, crafting, klingons content, etc, etc)... their is just no point in dumping resources you would have to borrow into a game that is never going to attract a decent sized customer base due to its horrible launch and continued problems.
if you think this is wrong i suggest you look at eve or wow and see all the massive expansions they have made.... because they have customers.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
While I disagree entirely with the OP's view of STO, I do support his right to voice his opinion. However, the post I've quoted is a perfect explanation of the amazing attitude some defenders of the game have to those of us inside the STO forums themselves trying to point out it's many many flaws - comments like "good riddance, another one gone" to a departing player posting a detailed critique of the game as they walk out the door always amaze me.
MMO's are subject to a huge network effort - as the member I quoted so well explained. World of Warcrafts primary success now lies in it's own success, that is, it's stratospheric subscriber base allows for such a large development budget that the content generation cycle is on steroids and the release of new content serves to bring in ever more subscribers, completing a virtuous circle for Blizzard.
STO is suffering that same circle in reverse, as a declining subscriber base leads to a slower development cycle which in turn of course leads to more decline in the subscriber base. With each Season now 3 months apart, Seasons containing less content than originally promised (Sector Space revamp was the only major change to Season 3) and Weekly Episodes currently on hiatus supposedly to concentrate on Season releases, my fear is that STO is crossing below a threshold, where the game is failing to improve enough, quickly enough, to arrest a slow but inexorable decline in subscriber numbers that, for reasons passing common sense, is cheered on by some of the games very own defenders.
It actually did this in the third month , after ninety days the population drop noticably. People are willing to give a game a benefit of the doubt. usually it runs 90 days , I've noticed. As the game approaches the 1 year mark the decline will be appreciably noticable with the new games due to come out at that time, and 1 year pre-paid sub expire.