hey doomsday 01 and sevenwind... have you read the little blurb at the bottom of my posts?
keep calling people haters! it works, every time you do sto gets better!
HONEST!
I have seen plenty of your posts Raistalin69, you had to put that comment into your tag line because you are a hater and that is the only way you could retaliate. Move along now... Nothing to see here for you...
Edit note: I felt that may have been a little to harsh for poor Raistalin. If you actually want to DISCUSS like your tag line suggests, then please feel free to discuss. So far you guys haven't been doing much of that at all. You say CRITICISM, yet there has been no critiquing, there has just been blame and hate. So, bring it, lets critique the game that YOU think STO should have been.
well doomsday, if you actually have read "many" of my posts you would realize that most of my complaints about sto are the same that have been voiced here by the majority of people who played the game. the same ones pointed out by most reviews. the same ones that cryptics ceo has admitted are true. the same one's that people complained about in beta. and the same ones that are still not fixed to this day.
call me a hater if you like, i do not feel one bit guilty about warning people away from a not ready for release, pathetically sub-par product. personally i have saved myself a lot of money by reading the posts here of games i have decided to not try. and have come across a few good games too (fallen earth comes to mind).
heres the catch though-
if you find a few people who dont like something about a game, it might be ok
when you find lots of people complaining about the same issue's with a game like sto (poor ground combat, lack of content, repetitive missions, little or no end game), those things end up being true. and the things i just listed, are essentially what an mmo is supposed to have (content, interesting combat,variety and a decent end game).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
hey doomsday 01 and sevenwind... have you read the little blurb at the bottom of my posts?
keep calling people haters! it works, every time you do sto gets better!
HONEST!
I have seen plenty of your posts Raistalin69, you had to put that comment into your tag line because you are a hater and that is the only way you could retaliate. Move along now... Nothing to see here for you...
Edit note: I felt that may have been a little to harsh for poor Raistalin. If you actually want to DISCUSS like your tag line suggests, then please feel free to discuss. So far you guys haven't been doing much of that at all. You say CRITICISM, yet there has been no critiquing, there has just been blame and hate. So, bring it, lets critique the game that YOU think STO should have been.
well doomsday, if you actually have read "many" of my posts you would realize that most of my complaints about sto are the same that have been voiced here by the majority of people who played the game. the same ones pointed out by most reviews. the same ones that cryptics ceo has admitted are true. the same one's that people complained about in beta. and the same ones that are still not fixed to this day.
call me a hater if you like, i do not feel one bit guilty about warning people away from a not ready for release, pathetically sub-par product. personally i have saved myself a lot of money by reading the posts here of games i have decided to not try. and have come across a few good games too (fallen earth comes to mind).
heres the catch though-
if you find a few people who dont like something about a game, it might be ok
when you find lots of people complaining about the same issue's with a game like sto (poor ground combat, lack of content, repetitive missions, little or no end game), those things end up being true. and the things i just listed, are essentially what an mmo is supposed to have (content, interesting combat,variety and a decent end game).
Wow I agree here. Everybody keeps posting the same negative thigns about the game, and the the CDF (Cryptic Defence Force) shows up. Nothing could make me want to play STO again. Tried it at beta, went back 2 seperate times. I still have the same complaints now as I did the first day the game released. Only now I had one to add, No end game content for RA (Read Admiral) other than grind grind grind.
STO was a fail in my eyes, thats my thoughts only. However it apears to me tons of other folks agree on just about evrtything else that is wrong with the game. With so many of us going this is what is wrong, all the cdf came come up with, is the game is getting better, and try the cstore. LoL.
hey doomsday 01 and sevenwind... have you read the little blurb at the bottom of my posts?
keep calling people haters! it works, every time you do sto gets better!
HONEST!
Yup and I chuckle a little each time I see "defence".
So if you're not a hater to STO then what are you? A concerned consumer? A one person consumer reports letting people know how bad STO is? Goodluck with that quest. If you got that much time to rant and advise people against this game. I can only say I wish I had your time.
EDIT: Just want to add if you take the effort you put into disliking STO on these forums and posted with the same effort on any other game on this site like WoW, AOC, WAR, whatever and you're going to get the same feedback from people who enjoy their game. So the entire MMO field of games and community must be bad!!!
hey doomsday 01 and sevenwind... have you read the little blurb at the bottom of my posts?
keep calling people haters! it works, every time you do sto gets better!
HONEST!
I have seen plenty of your posts Raistalin69, you had to put that comment into your tag line because you are a hater and that is the only way you could retaliate. Move along now... Nothing to see here for you...
Edit note: I felt that may have been a little to harsh for poor Raistalin. If you actually want to DISCUSS like your tag line suggests, then please feel free to discuss. So far you guys haven't been doing much of that at all. You say CRITICISM, yet there has been no critiquing, there has just been blame and hate. So, bring it, lets critique the game that YOU think STO should have been.
well doomsday, if you actually have read "many" of my posts you would realize that most of my complaints about sto are the same that have been voiced here by the majority of people who played the game. the same ones pointed out by most reviews. the same ones that cryptics ceo has admitted are true. the same one's that people complained about in beta. and the same ones that are still not fixed to this day.
call me a hater if you like, i do not feel one bit guilty about warning people away from a not ready for release, pathetically sub-par product. personally i have saved myself a lot of money by reading the posts here of games i have decided to not try. and have come across a few good games too (fallen earth comes to mind).
heres the catch though-
if you find a few people who dont like something about a game, it might be ok
when you find lots of people complaining about the same issue's with a game like sto (poor ground combat, lack of content, repetitive missions, little or no end game), those things end up being true. and the things i just listed, are essentially what an mmo is supposed to have (content, interesting combat,variety and a decent end game).
Wow I agree here. Everybody keeps posting the same negative thigns about the game, and the the CDF (Cryptic Defence Force) shows up. Nothing could make me want to play STO again. Tried it at beta, went back 2 seperate times. I still have the same complaints now as I did the first day the game released. Only now I had one to add, No end game content for RA (Read Admiral) other than grind grind grind.
STO was a fail in my eyes, thats my thoughts only. However it apears to me tons of other folks agree on just about evrtything else that is wrong with the game. With so many of us going this is what is wrong, all the cdf came come up with, is the game is getting better, and try the cstore. LoL.
So, We are CDF because we like the game? We are cdf because people come into the thread that actually states that they like the game? Seriously? LOL is all I got to say about that.
Now, You had to add one, no real content other than grind grind grind? What else do you think every other MMO's end game content consists of? Thats right, grind grind grind.
Obviously you don't like the game but that last bit about end game just made me laugh. I think that pretty much cancels out your cdf theory lol.
hey doomsday 01 and sevenwind... have you read the little blurb at the bottom of my posts?
keep calling people haters! it works, every time you do sto gets better!
HONEST!
I have seen plenty of your posts Raistalin69, you had to put that comment into your tag line because you are a hater and that is the only way you could retaliate. Move along now... Nothing to see here for you...
Edit note: I felt that may have been a little to harsh for poor Raistalin. If you actually want to DISCUSS like your tag line suggests, then please feel free to discuss. So far you guys haven't been doing much of that at all. You say CRITICISM, yet there has been no critiquing, there has just been blame and hate. So, bring it, lets critique the game that YOU think STO should have been.
well doomsday, if you actually have read "many" of my posts you would realize that most of my complaints about sto are the same that have been voiced here by the majority of people who played the game. the same ones pointed out by most reviews. the same ones that cryptics ceo has admitted are true. the same one's that people complained about in beta. and the same ones that are still not fixed to this day.
call me a hater if you like, i do not feel one bit guilty about warning people away from a not ready for release, pathetically sub-par product. personally i have saved myself a lot of money by reading the posts here of games i have decided to not try. and have come across a few good games too (fallen earth comes to mind).
heres the catch though-
if you find a few people who dont like something about a game, it might be ok
when you find lots of people complaining about the same issue's with a game like sto (poor ground combat, lack of content, repetitive missions, little or no end game), those things end up being true. and the things i just listed, are essentially what an mmo is supposed to have (content, interesting combat,variety and a decent end game).
For someone who doesn't like the game, you really do spend an aweful lot of time informing others how bad it sucks. As I said, I have seen your posts. Anyone who looks at your profile will see that you spend an aweful lot of time telling others how bad you hate the game. In fact just going back 6 pages of your posts was showing that probably 95%+ of your posts are about how bad you hate the game in different threads. A good portion of them doesn't even talk about why. And you want me to believe that you are just "criticising" the game?
Hey, I have stated on many occasions that there are things I don't like about the game myself. Personally I dont think the launch was bad at all. There was some lag but it was completely playable. Was there enough content? No, there wasn't. were there bugs? Sure there was. Did the klingons get screwed? Yep, and no ky to help it either. Did they lie about stuff, they sure did. Now, I want to point out that I have seen MOST of these complaints about other mmos from other people to.
However, Unlike you and the crew that likes to bash sto to death, I also point out many of the things that they have added over the course of this past year. You can argue that it should have been in there to start with, I wouldn't really argue to much with you on that, But it is getting more content and it is getting better. Something you and others don't seem to care about or are even willing to say is happening. If you really want to debate things, then start listing the points instead of just telling us how crappy it is.
yeah thx doomsday for pointing out that most if not all of what cryptic has added to the game in the last year should have been in at launch.
as to they are adding/fixing more..... i think i heard that line from cryptic 2 or 3 days after the game launched (that was the "miracle" 30 day patch).... didnt buy it then, dont buy that line now.
as you so clearly point out they still are adding things to the game that should have been in the game at launch... a year ago
and i listed 4 things for discussion
lack of content, boring ground combat, lack of end game and variety.
like i said content, interesting combat, decent end game and a variety of things to do are the staples of any decent mmo, and some of the things that sto lacks imo.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
I thought that was my point? No mmo is going to be released in such a flawless manner so you're setting yourself up for dissapointment. If you think DCUO, Rift, Star Wars will be released in a errorless way I think you'll be surprised, in my opinion.
You can call me Naive, stupid or gullibe for going back to AoC after I quit the first month. But for me they fixed what needed to be fixed in order for me to enjoy their game. And I do and I have zero regrets. The moment it stops being fun and enjoyable I will unsubscribe.
If you keep holding on to that chip on your shoulder, all that anger is going to eat you up. It's just a video game.
I am not the one trying to defend the indefensible, nor attacking every poster who citizicises a particular game.
In regards to MMOs, there is "not flawless" i.e. some bugs and polish issues or server issues that get fixed, and then there is "crap" because of lazy design choices, rushed production, and disservice to an IP. What we have with STO is clearly the latter.
Heh, if you think I am least bit concerned or angry about STO, you need to get out of the basement more. STO is the joke that keeps on giving. If anything, I look forward to reading the next Cryptic fiasco with STO and the laughs I get from the CDF types are better than from most things on TV.
Keep trying tho...
What I don't get is if you hate sto so much, why bother reading threads?( Because its fun and entertaining).....Yet you still make comments like they did a disservice to an IP. (They did an extreme disservice to the IP for which they rightly should be forever vilified) At least they made the game for it. (and that's the point, they made a game, but they did not make the MMORPG this IP deserved) .... The game is star trek. It has the feel, the sounds, the look of star trek. (and yet, despite all that, its not enough. A MMORPG is so much more than its graphics or look and feel) A company could spend 10 years making star trek and there would still be pissed off people out there because they didn't include the feature that "they" wanted in it. (Absolutely true, no game could make everyone happy, but surely someone could have made a Startrek MMORPG that made most people happy, which this clearly doesn't).
I would love to be fighting from my bridge instead of third person view. (but you can't) I would love for my helmsman to fly the ship so that I don't have to and can concentrate on the battle at hand. (but you can't) I would love true exploration where there are unlimited zones and you the lone ship exploring the unknown galaxy. (but you can't) Tons of other things that I would like to see but I am not sure if they are even possible to do with the current game engine. (so you agree then, game engine design is a possible fail?) There are a lot of things I wished they had done differently in the game, (so why accept less?) but in the end, to me, it is still a fun game. I feel like I am in the star trek universe when playing as does others that are playing. (For you, just playing the Star Wars universe is enough, for many others that is just not cutting it).
Hey, maybe I should ask you how you felt about the awards that cryptic won for 2010. (totally bogus, wouldn't have won any awards in any other year, none off the above usually beats it in reliable polls) But then again, you would probably just ramble on about how crappy the game was at launch (it was) and no way should they have won anything. (you are correct, they should not have won anything) You sit here and complain about how the game was and yet the game has improved tons in lots of ways but you seem to ignore that and want to make it sound like its gotten even worse since its launch. (it may have gotten better, but not so much that it is now a great MMORPG as it should have been, your own comments clearly show all the room for improvement, I can think of quite a few more areas as well) I mean, really, have you decided to make it your lifes goal to try and steer people away from the game? (yeah, it might be, I agree, as a gaming community we need to collectively drive STO into the ground, only then is there any hope the IP will be given another chance to be used to create a new and better game) I mean, seriously, I hate sony with a passion but I am not going to try and convince people to not buy their games. (That's you, me, I hate Cryptic with a passion and will never miss an opportunity to disuade anyone from playing their games.)
Here's the deal, perhaps you think our dislike of Cryptic and STO is irrational, you're probably right. But Cryptic knew full well that they were building a watered down version of what should have been a full featured MMORPG and for that they deserve all the scorn and contempt tossed their way.
Way I see it, if any of my posts convince even one person to not play a Cryptic game then my time has been well spent.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
yeah thx doomsday for pointing out that most if not all of what cryptic has added to the game in the last year should have been in at launch.
as to they are adding/fixing more..... i think i heard that line from cryptic 2 or 3 days after the game launched (that was the "miracle" 30 day patch).... didnt buy it then, dont buy that line now.
as you so clearly point out they still are adding things to the game that should have been in the game at launch... a year ago
and i listed 4 things for discussion
lack of content, boring ground combat, lack of end game and variety.
like i said content, interesting combat, decent end game and a variety of things to do are the staples of any decent mmo, and some of the things that sto lacks imo.
Well lets look at content. Is there enough to get you to top level? Yes there is and then some. But let me point out something. Look at all the other mmo's out there. Once you reach the top level, there is not a lot of things for you to do. You basically have raids, farming for said raids, and sitting around chatting with your buddies. So I don't really see STO as being any worse in this area as any other MMO.
Now, with that said, here is the big kicker. It only takes a couple weeks to reach max level. That is not typical of a standard MMO. So, what are we really looking at here? Is it there is not enough content or is it simply that they cut out 90% of the grinding in an mmo and allowed you to level to fast? Now, I will use wow since most everyone has probably played it at some point. Even with the vast content that they have, people are creating new characters and leveling them up from 1-top level in just a few weeks also. The big thing I see as the problem and I am sure you are probably in agreement with this is that, if you take another character up, your still having to play the same content over again. I am currently working on my engineer and going through the same content I did previously. Not much variety for replayability.
I don't think the ground combat is boring. Its only as boring as you make it out to be. You can actually get pretty creative with strats on maps that can make it more fun. Not to mention that they have put in the slider bar for making things more difficult. Now with that said, season 4 they have mentioned that they are going to do some work on ground combat. It will be interesting to see what they do.
As for lack of end game, I don't know what to say. I have played a lot of MMOs in my time and the only real thing to do is raid. I am not a raider, so I am pretty much left with nothing to do at end game in almost all MMOs.
Variety we touched on and I agree with you. Once you have gone through it, you have seen it all. However, with the foundry that they are adding, There are going to be lots of missions created that have never been played before. So your variety problem may be solved with that one addition alone.
So, to recap.I agree with your statements that it still needs work. I don't have an issue with that, they are working to correct a lot of these issues. Is it being done as fast as you want it, no it obviously isn't. But with all that, there are still lots of people that like the game itself. I am agreeing with you on many points of problems in the game and yet I still like the game. Being mad about the game not turning out the way you wanted it is not going to make the game turn into what you wanted. So why can you not accept the game for what it is and not what you felt it needed to be at launch? Alot of the issues you have stated here fall upon many other MMOs out there to but I don't see you running around ripping them a new one every few seconds. Sorry, but there is a line to where you can go to far on disliking something.
I thought that was my point? No mmo is going to be released in such a flawless manner so you're setting yourself up for dissapointment. If you think DCUO, Rift, Star Wars will be released in a errorless way I think you'll be surprised, in my opinion.
You can call me Naive, stupid or gullibe for going back to AoC after I quit the first month. But for me they fixed what needed to be fixed in order for me to enjoy their game. And I do and I have zero regrets. The moment it stops being fun and enjoyable I will unsubscribe.
If you keep holding on to that chip on your shoulder, all that anger is going to eat you up. It's just a video game.
I am not the one trying to defend the indefensible, nor attacking every poster who citizicises a particular game.
In regards to MMOs, there is "not flawless" i.e. some bugs and polish issues or server issues that get fixed, and then there is "crap" because of lazy design choices, rushed production, and disservice to an IP. What we have with STO is clearly the latter.
Heh, if you think I am least bit concerned or angry about STO, you need to get out of the basement more. STO is the joke that keeps on giving. If anything, I look forward to reading the next Cryptic fiasco with STO and the laughs I get from the CDF types are better than from most things on TV.
Keep trying tho...
What I don't get is if you hate sto so much, why bother reading threads?( Because its fun and entertaining).....Yet you still make comments like they did a disservice to an IP. (They did an extreme disservice to the IP for which they rightly should be forever vilified) At least they made the game for it. (and that's the point, they made a game, but they did not make the MMORPG this IP deserved) .... The game is star trek. It has the feel, the sounds, the look of star trek. (and yet, despite all that, its not enough. A MMORPG is so much more than its graphics or look and feel) A company could spend 10 years making star trek and there would still be pissed off people out there because they didn't include the feature that "they" wanted in it. (Absolutely true, no game could make everyone happy, but surely someone could have made a Startrek MMORPG that made most people happy, which this clearly doesn't).
I would love to be fighting from my bridge instead of third person view. (but you can't) I would love for my helmsman to fly the ship so that I don't have to and can concentrate on the battle at hand. (but you can't) I would love true exploration where there are unlimited zones and you the lone ship exploring the unknown galaxy. (but you can't) Tons of other things that I would like to see but I am not sure if they are even possible to do with the current game engine. (so you agree then, game engine design is a possible fail?) There are a lot of things I wished they had done differently in the game, (so why accept less?) but in the end, to me, it is still a fun game. I feel like I am in the star trek universe when playing as does others that are playing. (For you, just playing the Star Wars universe is enough, for many others that is just not cutting it).
Hey, maybe I should ask you how you felt about the awards that cryptic won for 2010. (totally bogus, wouldn't have won any awards in any other year, none off the above usually beats it in reliable polls) But then again, you would probably just ramble on about how crappy the game was at launch (it was) and no way should they have won anything. (you are correct, they should not have won anything) You sit here and complain about how the game was and yet the game has improved tons in lots of ways but you seem to ignore that and want to make it sound like its gotten even worse since its launch. (it may have gotten better, but not so much that it is now a great MMORPG as it should have been, your own comments clearly show all the room for improvement, I can think of quite a few more areas as well) I mean, really, have you decided to make it your lifes goal to try and steer people away from the game? (yeah, it might be, I agree, as a gaming community we need to collectively drive STO into the ground, only then is there any hope the IP will be given another chance to be used to create a new and better game) I mean, seriously, I hate sony with a passion but I am not going to try and convince people to not buy their games. (That's you, me, I hate Cryptic with a passion and will never miss an opportunity to disuade anyone from playing their games.)
Here's the deal, perhaps you think our dislike of Cryptic and STO is irrational, you're probably right. But Cryptic knew full well that they were building a watered down version of what should have been a full featured MMORPG and for that they deserve all the scorn and contempt tossed their way.
Way I see it, if any of my posts convince even one person to not play a Cryptic game then my time has been well spent.
I suspect I can do better than one.
And see, that is where the line gets crossed. The problem you have is that it didn't fit your version of how you felt star trek should have been done. Sorry, boohoo. We don't always get what we want. You know what I told my friend when I heard that sto was being made into an mmo back when perpetual had it? I told him if I fire my phaser and I see it do XX amount of damage instead of stunning or destroying people that I would be extremely upset. And guess what, that is exactly the way the game is. However, they did throw in the whole shields thing which was kinda ok and it does help to change that perception. I mean, none of the Star treks had personal shields in them so its something new.
Could they have taken the game a different route? yes. It is a shame that you feel you must trash a company simply because they didn't make your version of star trek. Good luck with that.
as to they are adding/fixing more..... i think i heard that line from cryptic 2 or 3 days after the game launched (that was the "miracle" 30 day patch).... didnt buy it then, dont buy that line now.
Just to clarify that bit: it was the 45 day patch and it was the fans who made it out to be some kind of 'miracle' patch, not Cryptic. I posted on the forums at the time that Cryptic needed to step in and put a stop to the miracle patch nonsense, else it would come back and bite them. All they stated the patch was supposed to have was a Klingon-centric Genesis system to add in more PvE content for the Klingon faction (i.e. nothing but combat missions would be generated, according to dev statements), and some other relatively minor stuff.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Cryptic decided not to try to manage expectations and there was a backlash when the 45 day patch launched and players were underwhelmed. Players hyped up each of the season updates as well.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
(Absolutely true, no game could make everyone happy, but surely someone could have made a Startrek MMORPG that made most people happy, which this clearly doesn't).
I still say that for Star Trek, Bioware should have had the license. More so than Star Wars, Star Trek was about the stories of the ship's crew members. After having seen what they are doing in SW:TOR, I think that is what would have come closest to the Star Trek feel (epic story lines, content unique to each class, explorable ships that act as a base, the ability to team up with others and travel on the same ship (if you so wished to do so), etc.). That's not to say that I think SW:TOR will be bad, quite the opposite; I fully look forward to the game. I just think that those elements would have fit a Star Trek MMO like a glove (except for the space on rails, of course).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
(Absolutely true, no game could make everyone happy, but surely someone could have made a Startrek MMORPG that made most people happy, which this clearly doesn't).
I still say that for Star Trek, Bioware should have had the license. More so than Star Wars, Star Trek was about the stories of the ship's crew members. After having seen what they are doing in SW:TOR, I think that is what would have come closest to the Star Trek feel (epic story lines, content unique to each class, explorable ships that act as a base, the ability to team up with others and travel on the same ship (if you so wished to do so), etc.). That's not to say that I think SW:TOR will be bad, quite the opposite; I fully look forward to the game. I just think that those elements would have fit a Star Trek MMO like a glove (except for the space on rails, of course).
Oh gosh no, maybe if it was a single player. The flaw in the Bioware formula is their games are extremely chatty. You spend a good percentage in conversation to progress the game. That's great in a single player MMO, but it offers in my opinion zero replayability in a MMO.
From the looks of it the new Star Wars is going to be the same way. Hope you have patience when you're waiting on your friend because he's chatting with x quest person and has to go through five minutes of dialog. There are far better ways to push lore and story in a game than long drawn out conversations.
(Absolutely true, no game could make everyone happy, but surely someone could have made a Startrek MMORPG that made most people happy, which this clearly doesn't).
I still say that for Star Trek, Bioware should have had the license. More so than Star Wars, Star Trek was about the stories of the ship's crew members. After having seen what they are doing in SW:TOR, I think that is what would have come closest to the Star Trek feel (epic story lines, content unique to each class, explorable ships that act as a base, the ability to team up with others and travel on the same ship (if you so wished to do so), etc.). That's not to say that I think SW:TOR will be bad, quite the opposite; I fully look forward to the game. I just think that those elements would have fit a Star Trek MMO like a glove (except for the space on rails, of course).
Oh gosh no, maybe if it was a single player. The flaw in the Bioware formula is their games are extremely chatty. You spend a good percentage in conversation to progress the game. That's great in a single player MMO, but it offers in my opinion zero replayability in a MMO.
From the looks of it the new Star Wars is going to be the same way. Hope you have patience when you're waiting on your friend because he's chatting with x quest person and has to go through five minutes of dialog. There are far better ways to push lore and story in a game than long drawn out conversations.
I think I have to agree with dinendae on this one. Bioware would have been the perfect story teller for STO. Their story lines are unmatched by all the game companies out there. You are right that it would be extremely chatty, but to be honest, so was the shows lol.
Oh gosh no, maybe if it was a single player. The flaw in the Bioware formula is their games are extremely chatty. You spend a good percentage in conversation to progress the game. That's great in a single player MMO, but it offers in my opinion zero replayability in a MMO.
From the looks of it the new Star Wars is going to be the same way. Hope you have patience when you're waiting on your friend because he's chatting with x quest person and has to go through five minutes of dialog. There are far better ways to push lore and story in a game than long drawn out conversations.
That's why they're doing it the smart way, and letting eveyone in the party effect the conversation with the NPCs. The game is also supposed to remember what you chose to say so that even if another member decides to kill ambassador X (and you wanted to save him), you will not be negatively impacted by the other party member's decision. Having multiple dialog choices that actually produce different results also greatly adds to replayability; STO could definately use such a system for its diplomatic corps feature. Also, you do have the option of quickly skipping through the dialog (if you so choose).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Comments
well doomsday, if you actually have read "many" of my posts you would realize that most of my complaints about sto are the same that have been voiced here by the majority of people who played the game. the same ones pointed out by most reviews. the same ones that cryptics ceo has admitted are true. the same one's that people complained about in beta. and the same ones that are still not fixed to this day.
call me a hater if you like, i do not feel one bit guilty about warning people away from a not ready for release, pathetically sub-par product. personally i have saved myself a lot of money by reading the posts here of games i have decided to not try. and have come across a few good games too (fallen earth comes to mind).
heres the catch though-
if you find a few people who dont like something about a game, it might be ok
when you find lots of people complaining about the same issue's with a game like sto (poor ground combat, lack of content, repetitive missions, little or no end game), those things end up being true. and the things i just listed, are essentially what an mmo is supposed to have (content, interesting combat,variety and a decent end game).
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Wow I agree here. Everybody keeps posting the same negative thigns about the game, and the the CDF (Cryptic Defence Force) shows up. Nothing could make me want to play STO again. Tried it at beta, went back 2 seperate times. I still have the same complaints now as I did the first day the game released. Only now I had one to add, No end game content for RA (Read Admiral) other than grind grind grind.
STO was a fail in my eyes, thats my thoughts only. However it apears to me tons of other folks agree on just about evrtything else that is wrong with the game. With so many of us going this is what is wrong, all the cdf came come up with, is the game is getting better, and try the cstore. LoL.
Yup and I chuckle a little each time I see "defence".
So if you're not a hater to STO then what are you? A concerned consumer? A one person consumer reports letting people know how bad STO is? Goodluck with that quest. If you got that much time to rant and advise people against this game. I can only say I wish I had your time.
EDIT: Just want to add if you take the effort you put into disliking STO on these forums and posted with the same effort on any other game on this site like WoW, AOC, WAR, whatever and you're going to get the same feedback from people who enjoy their game. So the entire MMO field of games and community must be bad!!!
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Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
So, We are CDF because we like the game? We are cdf because people come into the thread that actually states that they like the game? Seriously? LOL is all I got to say about that.
Now, You had to add one, no real content other than grind grind grind? What else do you think every other MMO's end game content consists of? Thats right, grind grind grind.
Obviously you don't like the game but that last bit about end game just made me laugh. I think that pretty much cancels out your cdf theory lol.
For someone who doesn't like the game, you really do spend an aweful lot of time informing others how bad it sucks. As I said, I have seen your posts. Anyone who looks at your profile will see that you spend an aweful lot of time telling others how bad you hate the game. In fact just going back 6 pages of your posts was showing that probably 95%+ of your posts are about how bad you hate the game in different threads. A good portion of them doesn't even talk about why. And you want me to believe that you are just "criticising" the game?
Hey, I have stated on many occasions that there are things I don't like about the game myself. Personally I dont think the launch was bad at all. There was some lag but it was completely playable. Was there enough content? No, there wasn't. were there bugs? Sure there was. Did the klingons get screwed? Yep, and no ky to help it either. Did they lie about stuff, they sure did. Now, I want to point out that I have seen MOST of these complaints about other mmos from other people to.
However, Unlike you and the crew that likes to bash sto to death, I also point out many of the things that they have added over the course of this past year. You can argue that it should have been in there to start with, I wouldn't really argue to much with you on that, But it is getting more content and it is getting better. Something you and others don't seem to care about or are even willing to say is happening. If you really want to debate things, then start listing the points instead of just telling us how crappy it is.
yeah thx doomsday for pointing out that most if not all of what cryptic has added to the game in the last year should have been in at launch.
as to they are adding/fixing more..... i think i heard that line from cryptic 2 or 3 days after the game launched (that was the "miracle" 30 day patch).... didnt buy it then, dont buy that line now.
as you so clearly point out they still are adding things to the game that should have been in the game at launch... a year ago
and i listed 4 things for discussion
lack of content, boring ground combat, lack of end game and variety.
like i said content, interesting combat, decent end game and a variety of things to do are the staples of any decent mmo, and some of the things that sto lacks imo.
IF THE ONLY DEFENCE FOR CRITICISM OF A GAME IS CALLING SOMEONE A TROLL OR HATER, THAT SAYS A LOT ABOUT THE QUALITY OF THE GAME
Here's the deal, perhaps you think our dislike of Cryptic and STO is irrational, you're probably right. But Cryptic knew full well that they were building a watered down version of what should have been a full featured MMORPG and for that they deserve all the scorn and contempt tossed their way.
Way I see it, if any of my posts convince even one person to not play a Cryptic game then my time has been well spent.
I suspect I can do better than one.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well lets look at content. Is there enough to get you to top level? Yes there is and then some. But let me point out something. Look at all the other mmo's out there. Once you reach the top level, there is not a lot of things for you to do. You basically have raids, farming for said raids, and sitting around chatting with your buddies. So I don't really see STO as being any worse in this area as any other MMO.
Now, with that said, here is the big kicker. It only takes a couple weeks to reach max level. That is not typical of a standard MMO. So, what are we really looking at here? Is it there is not enough content or is it simply that they cut out 90% of the grinding in an mmo and allowed you to level to fast? Now, I will use wow since most everyone has probably played it at some point. Even with the vast content that they have, people are creating new characters and leveling them up from 1-top level in just a few weeks also. The big thing I see as the problem and I am sure you are probably in agreement with this is that, if you take another character up, your still having to play the same content over again. I am currently working on my engineer and going through the same content I did previously. Not much variety for replayability.
I don't think the ground combat is boring. Its only as boring as you make it out to be. You can actually get pretty creative with strats on maps that can make it more fun. Not to mention that they have put in the slider bar for making things more difficult. Now with that said, season 4 they have mentioned that they are going to do some work on ground combat. It will be interesting to see what they do.
As for lack of end game, I don't know what to say. I have played a lot of MMOs in my time and the only real thing to do is raid. I am not a raider, so I am pretty much left with nothing to do at end game in almost all MMOs.
Variety we touched on and I agree with you. Once you have gone through it, you have seen it all. However, with the foundry that they are adding, There are going to be lots of missions created that have never been played before. So your variety problem may be solved with that one addition alone.
So, to recap.I agree with your statements that it still needs work. I don't have an issue with that, they are working to correct a lot of these issues. Is it being done as fast as you want it, no it obviously isn't. But with all that, there are still lots of people that like the game itself. I am agreeing with you on many points of problems in the game and yet I still like the game. Being mad about the game not turning out the way you wanted it is not going to make the game turn into what you wanted. So why can you not accept the game for what it is and not what you felt it needed to be at launch? Alot of the issues you have stated here fall upon many other MMOs out there to but I don't see you running around ripping them a new one every few seconds. Sorry, but there is a line to where you can go to far on disliking something.
And see, that is where the line gets crossed. The problem you have is that it didn't fit your version of how you felt star trek should have been done. Sorry, boohoo. We don't always get what we want. You know what I told my friend when I heard that sto was being made into an mmo back when perpetual had it? I told him if I fire my phaser and I see it do XX amount of damage instead of stunning or destroying people that I would be extremely upset. And guess what, that is exactly the way the game is. However, they did throw in the whole shields thing which was kinda ok and it does help to change that perception. I mean, none of the Star treks had personal shields in them so its something new.
Could they have taken the game a different route? yes. It is a shame that you feel you must trash a company simply because they didn't make your version of star trek. Good luck with that.
Just to clarify that bit: it was the 45 day patch and it was the fans who made it out to be some kind of 'miracle' patch, not Cryptic. I posted on the forums at the time that Cryptic needed to step in and put a stop to the miracle patch nonsense, else it would come back and bite them. All they stated the patch was supposed to have was a Klingon-centric Genesis system to add in more PvE content for the Klingon faction (i.e. nothing but combat missions would be generated, according to dev statements), and some other relatively minor stuff.
Unfortunately, for whatever reason, Cryptic decided not to try to manage expectations and there was a backlash when the 45 day patch launched and players were underwhelmed. Players hyped up each of the season updates as well.
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
I still say that for Star Trek, Bioware should have had the license. More so than Star Wars, Star Trek was about the stories of the ship's crew members. After having seen what they are doing in SW:TOR, I think that is what would have come closest to the Star Trek feel (epic story lines, content unique to each class, explorable ships that act as a base, the ability to team up with others and travel on the same ship (if you so wished to do so), etc.). That's not to say that I think SW:TOR will be bad, quite the opposite; I fully look forward to the game. I just think that those elements would have fit a Star Trek MMO like a glove (except for the space on rails, of course).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan
Oh gosh no, maybe if it was a single player. The flaw in the Bioware formula is their games are extremely chatty. You spend a good percentage in conversation to progress the game. That's great in a single player MMO, but it offers in my opinion zero replayability in a MMO.
From the looks of it the new Star Wars is going to be the same way. Hope you have patience when you're waiting on your friend because he's chatting with x quest person and has to go through five minutes of dialog. There are far better ways to push lore and story in a game than long drawn out conversations.
.. .... .- - . - .-. --- .-.. .-.. ... .-- .... --- .-. . .--. --- .-. - .-.-.-
--------------------------------------------------------
Promote what you love instead of bashing what you hate.
I think I have to agree with dinendae on this one. Bioware would have been the perfect story teller for STO. Their story lines are unmatched by all the game companies out there. You are right that it would be extremely chatty, but to be honest, so was the shows lol.
That's why they're doing it the smart way, and letting eveyone in the party effect the conversation with the NPCs. The game is also supposed to remember what you chose to say so that even if another member decides to kill ambassador X (and you wanted to save him), you will not be negatively impacted by the other party member's decision. Having multiple dialog choices that actually produce different results also greatly adds to replayability; STO could definately use such a system for its diplomatic corps feature. Also, you do have the option of quickly skipping through the dialog (if you so choose).
"Oh my, how horrible, someone is criticizing a MMO. Oh yeah, that is what a forum is about, looking at both sides. You rather have to be critical of anything in this genre as of late because the track record of these major studios has just been appalling." -Ozmodan