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I feel that Cata will be a major let down for me and others
Hoplites
Member CommonPosts: 463
I don't post often, and I do see WoW in a favorable light unlike other MMORPG players. But with all that said, I just feel like Cata is a massive let down from my point of view, when it should be re-juvenating my interest in the game. Here is a short list of what I feel is akward about Cata which releases in the near future:
1. Lore wise it doesn't feel right from my point of view, especially with Garrosh being the leader of the Horde or the Forsaken deciding to act like the Scourge, the very same Scourge they fought valiantly against to defeat as it seems hypocritical from my view point. And to top it all off the alliance is seen as weak sauce all around, and the Blood Elfs/Dranaei are no where in the mix at all despite being an integral part of the game by now, or should be.
2. The re-vamping of lower level zones should be good for new players, but what of older players? Is the game encouraging alt- itis, and focusing on end game content at 85? This schizophrenic approach trying to please a large swath of gamers seems to cause problems in terms of balance (PVP) for lower levels, and end game (85) just as an example. The back stories about the new zones are interesting, but this ties into the first point as the lore seems akward, especially if you like alliance.
3. Removal of portals I think is a massive mistake seeing ALL other MMORPG's and MMO's now focus on reducing time sinks. I have always been interested in exploring the continents in World of Warcraft, and even achieved the Explorer title, so if you want to see the world it should be a CHOICE not a forced one. I doubt Blizzard has such fragile egos if not all of their player base doesn't see the new zones, so why force it? Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have people spending more time traveling than playing? This means that most likely those with short time (eg 1-2 hours) will not bother to log in. WoW made it fashionable to allow gamers with 1-2 hours of time to participate, so I don't see why they are trying to put the Geenie back in the bottle. What is done is done, and they should focus on making the main cities interesting to visit with real value or incentive.
4. The continued homogenization of classes, and specs, seems to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Now there are pure DPS that have to focus a lot more on healing in PVP and PVE with their new self healing abilities. I suppose this could lead to more fun, but then again the main point of delivering DPS is lost in the shuffle. To me Blizzard tends to gravitate to extremes to quickly, instead of using a gradual approach. Instead of dealing with how easy healers had it in WoTLK they should have minor changes, not massive nerfs to healers, and then forcing pure DPS having to rely on self healing as well. And let me add that if they continue with this homogenization, then the logical conclusion is that hunters need a very good self heal, Rets a gap closer, etc. Once you start the process of homogenization you can't turn back, and say this is good enough point to stop in the middle of the boat ride. Either you stick with the idea, or go back to the model of defined roles. This indecision is causing massive frustration with pure and hybrid DPS playerbase, so much so that they have decided they want to decrease the amount of blues posting on the new forums now.
5. The WotLK beta was praised for the vast amount of feedback provided by the devs, and many of the changes made. It could be argued because of the imbalances that took place in WotLK expansion that the devs probably don't want to listen to the feedback of players anymore which is what happened with the Cata beta. With that said, I think they could have done more listening to the player base in WotLK beta to make it even better despite being praised for actually creating a dialogue. But with the Cata beta they really dropped the ball with player feedback as it was very minimalistic to the point of being bare bones which shocked me as I was anticipating an increase in blue feedback to avoid the mistakes of WotLK. The changes in Beta were not that massive as WotLK, or even precise either, so I wonder why so much lack of movement on their part? It feels like they went throught the motions without any meaningful weight like we saw in WotLK beta when it came to DK's as an example.
In my opinion, Cata should have been delayed further because it doesn't feel like a complete expansion, and it is merely meeting a deadline for the holiday season. I wish they would have taken an extra month or two to release in February to be honest as they game needs a lot of work, and polish.
Comments
To be quite honest I stopped taking your post serious after you mentioned the removal of portals. Instant travel ruins immersion into the game world and being an expansion based on a revamped world.... It was a good move as they should have never been out ingame to begin with. WoW has mounts and mages can still create portals for those that dont wish to jump on their 300% movement speed mounts.
I'm always the first one to say WoW sucks and I'm not saying cata makes it any better but cata has 10x the updated content of wotlk and calling it an unfinished expansion isn't even funny. I cleared every quest in wotlk the first week it was out.... I haven't even done every quest on the alliance side and the new zones and 80-85 content isn't even out yet... and it's been more than a week now....
Thread is an example of the worse thing WoW has done..... attract gamers that never seem to be happy with anything and just want everything now now now.
Oh and I'm right, you're wrong. etc etc.
WoW does have some elements of a seemless real world like Lineage 2, but it still is far from a real open ended world like L2. To me it makes no sense to force peole to travel, and it should be a choice.
Removal of portals is a massive immersion breaker for me given it has been part of the game in recent times, so losing the ability to use portals doesn't make sense lore wise either, and from a game play stand point Cata should be a Renaissance for WoW, and yet they want to go back to the Middle Ages with the removal of portals. It can't be the Renaissance if you want to go back to how things used to be.
Overall, I think those that liked the Wrath expansion are not going to like Cata. The minimal self-heals mentioned in the OP are hardly game changers...they add a little bit to survivability (e.g. none of the rogue heals are going to make them a tank). More abilities are situational and force you to make a decision...which is very much the reverse of Wrath where you just spammed whichever ability was available to your heart's content since it had minimal impact. Those that did not like Wrath may very enjoy Cata since it puts WoW closer to BC in many important respects (cc, threat, thought required for healing, etc).
Cata is definitely a nod in the direction of alt creation. I don't understand why this is considered such a big issue. Most players have alts, and most players I've encountered over the years continue to make alts. Blizzard has revamped the main continents so that the players can have a new experience with their alts. If you purely end-game focused, you won't care...but many others will appreciate it. If people want the lore to be completely static, you won't like the changes...but many people like to see a story evolve.
Portals being gone is not nearly the issue many people make of it. They've added the trainers and AH to each of the expansion capitals. The dungeon finder eliminates the need to travel long distance for 5-man instances. Questing does not require portals now that trainers are available. Raids have always required traveling...and most raids will pull you in via the stone. There really is no reason for the level of complaint over this issue.
I agree that Blizzard listened to the players in Wrath beta more. I personally think that is the primary reason that Wrath was as bad as it was...everybody wanted easy-mode, they got it, and many people got bored quickly thereafter. WoW growth stagnated during the Wrath years, so Blizzard is seeing that approach as a mistake (again, I personnally agree that it was a mistake). I think Blizzard is doing a better approach this time around.
To be honest, I don't get what additional polish you think is missing. Your arguments are largely based on what you want to see...not what would really improve the game. The expansion is overall larger in scope than Wrath (added one class, one continent, some dungeons, mini-games, and a capital city that is smaller than some of the cities on the main continents)...added 2 new races, revamping the majority of the 2 largest continents as well as many of the pre-BC instances, some dungeons, mini-games, and several island areas in the world. Did you want another capital city that would be even smaller than Goldshire to be consistent with another Wrath-like expansion?
I will agree with the OP about the lore stuff and add some things that I dislike.
The fact that they are making Sylvanas into somone players will hate. Look waht she is doing to Silverpine and Southshore. She has become Arthas. She is purposely killing and then reanimating. No different than Arthas. Sure Arthas did not give them a choice and just ressed them - turnign them into mindless fodder for his conquest...but it really is no different for Sylvanas. She is killing and ressing and we're to believe that the people she brings back cheerfully join the Forsaken after being killed by them? Seriously? That is not how Sylvanas felt...she hated Arthas for doing it to her...and now she is doing the exact same thing? Please Blizzard....get a new writer.
There are some other lore things I have serious issues with and those will go into my blog.
What is with all the new flight paths? Really...Stonetalon needs not one but like 4 new flight masters!
And what is with the level 85 (ELITE) guards in the lowbee areas? They are not just level 85 guards...but "Elite" guards. So Blizzard is catering to the PvE's who play on PvP servers....why? PvP is meant for PvP...I do not care what level you are - if you are my enemy I will kill you if I see you - if I have a notion to do so. PvP servers are losing their world PvP aspects and they are becoming nothing more than PVE servers with PvP BG's. Hell the Elite gaurds aggro on you from many meters away as well. That is just screwed up.
They also are making it easier than ever in some things for players...they added tabards to the cities that will allow you to gain rep now? Instead of doing quest to gain rep as we had to, now just grab a tabard!
Duel speccing cost 100g when it use to cost 1000g! WTF? We players that spent the 1000 gold on countless toons to duel spec them - are we re-imbursed? Nope. We have to eat the 900g.
Still no appearance tab. Instead we will have to endure looking at our toons in that gawd awful new teir 11 crap they call armor. OMG...all the armor has shoulder pauldarons that are the size of huge pumpkins? Why? They are so very fugly. Does anyone really like the new looks of the new armor? If you do...get your eyes checked.
1. Have you ever played Warcraft 1 and 2? Yes? Then you should recognize what is going on here. Blizzard decided to return to the roots of Warcraft. You might like it or not, but it is defnitely not a destruction of the lore! Garush is what an orc warlord might very well be, Thrall was much more for World peace and that was what Warcraft 3 was all about.
Again like it or not, but it does not destroy Warcraft lore, it is just different.
As for Blood elf/Draenei, just yesterday my wife (30ish something human hunter) was just telling me how pleased she was on the INTEGRATION they did with Draenei. They are everywhere now and find them here and there across the Alliance territories, so it seems to me they did what you lament, not the opposite. Yes, it is the Alliance. Not the Humans, or the Dwarves or the Draenei. Same for the Horde. Makes sense that in the Starting areas of each race you will see heavy stuff of that race (and that is true for Draenei/Blood elf too) but as tou go further from the starting towns, it all become more mixed together as it should be with Alliances of different races.
2.What exactly is the problem here? Yes, you are supposed to roll alts. the inclusion of two new races was a clear indication of that. No, THEY say the level 80-85 will be roughly equivalent to level 70-80 in terms of content. Is that true? No idea, but people tend to forget for example that the underwater part is NOT a single zone but three or so. If it comes as a surprise that WoW supports and even encourages alts... well, I am not sure what game you played for the last 4 years or so, friend ^^
3. Is this such a big deal? Aren't we forgetting something? what is that.... oh yeah FLYING MOUNTS are coming the old world!
Honestly, once I get my flying mount in Outland, even the basic one, screw flying points or portal, I will just fly where I want to go. It is not THAT slow. with an epic mount, you can zips anywhere you want.
Plus the removal of the portals from Dalaran is because Dalaran itself has become quite obsolete and they want to focus playing on the old world as well, as the level 80-85 areas are here. Yes changing continent needs a zeppelin or a boat still, it does not seem like a big deal to me, maybe it is for you, dunno.
4.Mmmmh, to me it feel the opposite. With the changes to classes like Chakra system, new warlock soul shard, holy power, hunters having focus and so on... it feel each class is DIFFERENT from the others. Yes, DPS will still do DPS, but the way a Rogue or a Ret paladin do DPS is VERY different. end result is the same, but the path is very different. I see the self heal as something added for soloing purposes. I do not see a paladin in a group wasting their holy power on the healing spell if they can use it on an offensive ability for example, unless they are in trouble or the healer is in trouble, in which case they have the choice to do so. Self heals for melee classes, like DK and Rogues are also useful in the case of AoE bosses and link in with the changes to healers.
Yes, as a DPS you should self heal... if this help the healer with their mana, but again, it is a choice and situational, not something you should do all the time as that would reduce your effectiveness as a dps.
You will have noticed that Mages and Hunters do not have a self heal.. (warlocks kind of have it.. in drain life, but they always had that because they use their health as mana). Guess why? oh yeah, they are RANGED dps, so they do not suffer from the Bosses AoE or Cleave effects... ooooh do you see what they did there?
5. I cannot comment on the beta part, but why it does not feel a complete expansion? Yes, there are some inbalances but then again at what point of WoW there aren't been some inbalances? All seems to work more or less smoothly and not many game-breaking bugs I can see (ie. None) so care to explain why you think the expansion is not a complete product, what it is missing?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
yup, was absolutely gutted on my 7 day return
my rogue, who had previously around 6 succesful builds i enjoyed playing with literally had 3.... with a pvp/pve twist on each nothing groundbreaking
He was also granted a self heal? wtf is that? ive played since day one and as rogues oyu go dps dps dps... you do not expect any healing (until later expansions) you back out of combat and stand i nthe corner and bandage up, if you get a random hot enjoy it. Nowadyas you jsut dps and move when needed you expect heals
Theres not one once of challenge left i nthe game, if oyu cant clear a raid go farming, after repeating hte same instances day in day out (GRINDING) you will out gear the raid you failed at....
WOW used to be great, WOW used to be challenging.
I'm done
no new classes
"For now on every new gamer to wow will never see what you saw when you started"
So tell me, how do you feel about that?
Does it minimize everything you have done up until now? Or do you feel like the SWG vets (a small select group that takes pride in playing a game that is no more).
Please share your thoughts on this.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
Actually I liked BC far more than WotLK to be honest. With that said the DPS differences between specs is as great as 10k, so if they were to take 1-2 more months to balance it out before releasing that is just one example of adding more polish. Or even the RBGs which they started testing less than one month before release date for Cata on Beta, which still needs more testing to be done. I can think of plenty of examples how they could have taken more time to be honest, and all these issues are significant in my opinion.
I have played the original Warcaft I and Warcraft II, and what Garrosh is doing now with his own free will is not necessarily the same as what happened in those two RTS titles with Orcs. Furthermore, I understand that not everything can be translated seemlessly lorewise (eg Orc Deathknights) to WoW. But to me it feels so pigeonholed to create a rivalry between Alliance and Horde after holding hands for so long.
I also have to echo the sentiment in regards to the talent trees which offer less choice now, and also less variety in terms of specs. Hybrid specs are no more and you must choose a main tree and put enough points to be able to use another.
Overall I question if I can have fun anymore given the changes put into the game, and how Blizzard is approaching such changes. But we shall see with the release of the expansion around the corner, but I have my doubts.
1 - In Cata you have to actually run to the instance first before it will be populated in the dungeon finder.
2 - As has been mentioned in numerous articles and blogs from beta testers, despite the fact that there are only 5 extra levels, 81-85 has as much content (quests, zones) as Wrath had. In fact, Cata is launching with more end game instances than Wrath did. So it may not be 10 times the content, but it is equal to the amount of content that the previous expansion had. Toss in the starter areas for the two new races and you can say that this expansion has more content out of the box than Wrath did when it launched.
Just a quick note to your point 5:
It was a severe mistake letting the people decide about gamedesign decisions, that's why WOTLK was so easy and dumbed down in the end, Blizzard tried to appeal to every whiner out there, which made the game an absolute yawnfest gameplaywise.
Most players aren't gamedesigners, don't know squad about that matter and are only interested in their own classes being more powerful. Blizzard proved over the years that they know their job really well, i say: let them do it, they know what they are doing.
99% of playersuggestions are incredibly dumb in the greater scheme of things, most of them would be completely gamebreaking if implemented.
I am no Lore buff, but there are some silly things that sort of bother me. One of these is the fact Thrall is no longer the man in charge, but take a quick trip to the Argent Tournament and...Thrall is the man in charge apparently. It was explained to me that this was due to Northrend was "technically in the past" which I have a problem coming to terms with. That is, unless the goblins replaced their Delorean with Zepplins, Even if they just placed a Caverns of Time style portal up to get to Northrend, that'd make more sense.
The point being, they seem to have put a lot of effort into Lore and storytelling in the early zones, but there seems to be a level of continuity missing as you advance out of those early zones. While I recognize the effort it must take to redo the game world, it seems there was a level of follow-through missing.
Admittedly, I play on an RP server and, for the multitudes that play on regular and pvp servers, these are probably non-issues, or at least low on the priority list. :P
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
1) no idea, i'm not a lore man.
2) i like the revamp, as far as i'm concerned there should have been more change. i'v seen all the old zones a million times, time to see something different. for god's sake there is a cataclysm going on....where are the hurricanes, tsunamis, vulcanoes, tornadoes?
3) you either get rid of the portals or the instant teleport from random dungeons button. one of the 2 has to go, otherwise nobody needs to travel anywere.
4) totaly agree. classes have long lost all their uniquness. this is Blizz trying to please everyone. lame.
5) Listening to player is good, but trying to please everyone not so much ( see above).
Someone mentioned earlier about "still no appearance tab"
Frankly i cannot beleive that the premier MMO with the most subscribers etc. STILL doesn't have this feature. Just about every other MMO that i've played in the last year or two has this feature, but in wow you are still forced to look like a mismashed clown.
It seems like Cataclysm is an excuse to fix bugs and give it a coat of paint. I can hardly believe that you can charge people $40.00 for 5 levels because bascially that is what it is. They simply could have revamped the existing classes in a patch but hey this is Blizzard, if they could bill you for breathing air they would. No new classes but yet they are adding more races because it is less work for them to do! I tell ya , the current mmo developers are just getting more disappointing by the second.
There are active tornadoes close to Westfall and what used to be Darkshore.
I agree with the OP on several points. The portals are of no concern to me but, the whole transformation of making this a Fisher-Price© hold my hand to 85 MMO has ruined it for me. When they implemented the exclamation marks above the quest givers (was it two years ago?) it's been going the way of a Chutes and Ladders board game since then. That in turn makes it a more family friendly MMO. I don't want your family in my MMO lol. I've seen videos of harder content in the 80 to 85 dungeons but i'm not sure i can make it there and when i do make it there all the kids that had their hands held all the way there it will be too frustrating and nerve racking trying to get anything accomplished with their AOE dps 2 shotting mobs all the way to 85 mentality. New MMO please, and leave WoW for the kids to play.
The lore from the original Warcraft was limited. They had to expand it as the game grew but the problem with many writers and the lack perhaps of good memory and cross checking your discrepancies can lead to a disjointed and often very unsatisfying story archs that can disappoint a purist. I can understand this and I for one after reading all the novels from Star Wars for instance and watching the latter three movies Lucas made sympathize with this exact feeling.
However you also have to look at how damaging this lore deviance can actually be and how much problem if any will it cause the fans in general. Many of the WoW players I trust from my own experience with them have very little appreciation or concern for lore. This does not mean WoW should simply go rampant and forget the lore cohesion but it would seem not enough time was spent trying to find more compatible story lines and lore advancement.
I actually like it. There is tension now between the horde. Even trolls are starting to shatter their connection with the warchief. Since the peace guy Thrall is not in command anymore this could open quite a few possibilities in interesting story telling.
I've seen vides of harder content in the 80 to 85 dungeons but i'm not sure i can make it there and when i do make it there all the kids that had their hands held all the way there it will be too frustrating and nerve racking trying to get anything accomplished with their AOE dps 2 shotting mobs all the way to 85 mentality. QFT! Dumb down everything til the end and then expect new players to get the change at 80+
You know what Sylvanas is doing is not so unbelievable. Don't victims of abuse become abusers themselves. It is often that something done to one which is so horrible and yet you turn around and do it to others. That is not so far fetched in fact it is quite a normal phenomenon.
That train left the station about 4 or 5 years ago I'm afraid.
For every player who dislikes Cata's changes, they'll probably be 2 who love it.
And no expansion can be totally perfect, for every player there's parts you like, and parts you don't. When the negatives outweigh the positives then its time for a new game.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Well you obviously don't have a clue about the amount of content that is coming with cata.
And, if you're starting a new character not buying Cata right away is fine. You will get the new world old world. You just won't have access to the new races, zones, and skills.
Sylvanas and the Forsaken have always been super evil and are only allied with the Horde out of convenience.
There was an old quest that had you gathering materials for the plague they eventually used on Arthas at the Wrathgate. For this quest they used humans and even Taurens as test subjects.
Sylvanas kept her evil tendencies in check because the Forsaken were limited in numbers and if they turned on everyone they would be wiped out. But now that she can use Val'kyrs to make more Forsaken shes starting to not care.
Previous Warcraft and WoW lore completely supports how Sylvanas is acting in Cataclysm.