They also are making it easier than ever in some things for players...they added tabards to the cities that will allow you to gain rep now?
Instead of doing quest to gain rep as we had to, now just grab a tabard!
"Because it was hard for me, and even though I bitched the whole time about how HARD it was back then.. now they are letting everyone get it EASIER???" lol
Please tell us..... back in the "good old days" did you have to play your toon uphill, both ways in a blinding snowstorm on the way to level 60?
You're done with your rep. Why do you care how easy it is for someone six years later to get theirs?
WHy can't you just be content with what you got now and not worry about what someone else does?
This never ceases to amaze me in MMOs; this "It was hardddddddd for me, so how come you're now making it easier for all these new people?"
Sylvanas and the Forsaken have always been super evil and are only allied with the Horde out of convenience.
There was an old quest that had you gathering materials for the plague they eventually used on Arthas at the Wrathgate. For this quest they used humans and even Taurens as test subjects.
Sylvanas kept her evil tendencies in check because the Forsaken were limited in numbers and if they turned on everyone they would be wiped out. But now that she can use Val'kyrs to make more Forsaken shes starting to not care.
Previous Warcraft and WoW lore completely supports how Sylvanas is acting in Cataclysm.
I was under the impression the whole Wrathgate plague deal was done behind her back. Hence the whole quest line to retake the Undercity at her side.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I don't post often, and I do see WoW in a favorable light unlike other MMORPG players. But with all that said, I just feel like Cata is a massive let down from my point of view, when it should be re-juvenating my interest in the game. Here is a short list of what I feel is akward about Cata which releases in the near future:
1. Lore wise it doesn't feel right from my point of view, especially with Garrosh being the leader of the Horde or the Forsaken deciding to act like the Scourge, the very same Scourge they fought valiantly against to defeat as it seems hypocritical from my view point. And to top it all off the alliance is seen as weak sauce all around, and the Blood Elfs/Dranaei are no where in the mix at all despite being an integral part of the game by now, or should be.
2. The re-vamping of lower level zones should be good for new players, but what of older players? Is the game encouraging alt- itis, and focusing on end game content at 85? This schizophrenic approach trying to please a large swath of gamers seems to cause problems in terms of balance (PVP) for lower levels, and end game (85) just as an example. The back stories about the new zones are interesting, but this ties into the first point as the lore seems akward, especially if you like alliance.
3. Removal of portals I think is a massive mistake seeing ALL other MMORPG's and MMO's now focus on reducing time sinks. I have always been interested in exploring the continents in World of Warcraft, and even achieved the Explorer title, so if you want to see the world it should be a CHOICE not a forced one. I doubt Blizzard has such fragile egos if not all of their player base doesn't see the new zones, so why force it? Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have people spending more time traveling than playing? This means that most likely those with short time (eg 1-2 hours) will not bother to log in. WoW made it fashionable to allow gamers with 1-2 hours of time to participate, so I don't see why they are trying to put the Geenie back in the bottle. What is done is done, and they should focus on making the main cities interesting to visit with real value or incentive.
4. The continued homogenization of classes, and specs, seems to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Now there are pure DPS that have to focus a lot more on healing in PVP and PVE with their new self healing abilities. I suppose this could lead to more fun, but then again the main point of delivering DPS is lost in the shuffle. To me Blizzard tends to gravitate to extremes to quickly, instead of using a gradual approach. Instead of dealing with how easy healers had it in WoTLK they should have minor changes, not massive nerfs to healers, and then forcing pure DPS having to rely on self healing as well. And let me add that if they continue with this homogenization, then the logical conclusion is that hunters need a very good self heal, Rets a gap closer, etc. Once you start the process of homogenization you can't turn back, and say this is good enough point to stop in the middle of the boat ride. Either you stick with the idea, or go back to the model of defined roles. This indecision is causing massive frustration with pure and hybrid DPS playerbase, so much so that they have decided they want to decrease the amount of blues posting on the new forums now.
5. The WotLK beta was praised for the vast amount of feedback provided by the devs, and many of the changes made. It could be argued because of the imbalances that took place in WotLK expansion that the devs probably don't want to listen to the feedback of players anymore which is what happened with the Cata beta. With that said, I think they could have done more listening to the player base in WotLK beta to make it even better despite being praised for actually creating a dialogue. But with the Cata beta they really dropped the ball with player feedback as it was very minimalistic to the point of being bare bones which shocked me as I was anticipating an increase in blue feedback to avoid the mistakes of WotLK. The changes in Beta were not that massive as WotLK, or even precise either, so I wonder why so much lack of movement on their part? It feels like they went throught the motions without any meaningful weight like we saw in WotLK beta when it came to DK's as an example.
In my opinion, Cata should have been delayed further because it doesn't feel like a complete expansion, and it is merely meeting a deadline for the holiday season. I wish they would have taken an extra month or two to release in February to be honest as they game needs a lot of work, and polish.
I know what you mean about the polishing of the game, but you don't know what it is like to be a developer and an MMO developer on top of that. There are things that can't really be tested fully until the game goes live, like the cross-realm instancing and BG's. I don't see how they could simulate the amount of people logged in and playing and have that many test servers before launch. It is one of those things that you can't do much about but make sure you get it right he best you can before it is pushed to the live servers. It is best sometimes to iron it out over time due to some ideas and testing features that get finalized or not during the process that can't be finalized until it is fully tested. There are TONS of things going on behind the scenes of a gigantic project like WoW you have no clue! You won't find a better engine and API like they have either, it is just a milestone that will be very difficult to reach.
I know what your talking about though, I kinda got the same feeling about the expansion, but it doesn't make Blizzard wrong, they are doing what is best for the overall game if you think about it. They are focusing on their future customers more than just their old customers. It is VERY important to make this game interesting and fun to get into and level to 85 without running customers away from the game before they even get there. I support them on this decision, but I really can't wait for the next expansion afterwards or the game updates that come later on free of charge.
You know what Sylvanas is doing is not so unbelievable. Don't victims of abuse become abusers themselves. It is often that something done to one which is so horrible and yet you turn around and do it to others. That is not so far fetched in fact it is quite a normal phenomenon.
Disclaimer: I don't know if you (reader) care, but this post contains information that is revealed by quests, so, *SPOILER ALERT*.
This is true, you usually don't notice such a thing until it is too late, as you're blinded by vengeance/whatever "greater good" you are seeking to notice what you've become, it's actually a quite common plot for stories. She's worried about the Forsaken being unable to procreate and she wants to dominate Lordaeron now that the Lich King is dead. Doesn't look like amateur/wrong lore work for me, especially since this isn't some fairy tail in which there are absolute good and evils.
----
Back on topic, I don't see the issue with only 5 levels being introduced as long as there is enough content. Never gauge content by the imaginary number but by the activities available and their extent.
Also, this is a monthly fee game, if they don't provide enough content to keep your sub, then simply unsub until there's more (considering you enjoy the game).
Complaining about portals? Ugh, I can see the kind of feedback that created WOTK now...
Originally posted by mklinic I was under the impression the whole Wrathgate plague deal was done behind her back. Hence the whole quest line to retake the Undercity at her side.
She was mad that Putress used it without her authorization which got her in big trouble then allied with Varimathras.
Also, when Putress used the super plague on Arthas it might have killed him. One thing the lore doesnt really get into is that the undead raised by Arthas is supposed to die when he dies. Sylvanas knew this so she didnt want to kill Arthas with the super plague, just weaken him so she could imprison him.
Originally posted by xBludx Dwarf Shaman.It does a disservice to the original (and well done for a game) lore.
She was mad that Putress used it without her authorization which got her in big trouble then allied with Varimathras.
Also, when Putress used the super plague on Arthas it might have killed him. One thing the lore doesnt really get into is that the undead raised by Arthas is supposed to die when he dies. Sylvanas knew this so she didnt want to kill Arthas with the super plague, just weaken him so she could imprison him.
ahh ok. I had seen it as Varimathras and Putress had been planning their thing and, when everything wen't down, Sylvanas had to react and suppress the coup.
At any rate, I like the updates to the Forsaken story and the general discomfort it creates in their relationship to the Horde.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers. Do something wrong, no one forgets" -from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I personaly have enjoyed the new changes despite some minor bug issues.
Lets be honest here WOTLK was horrible! Only thing i can relate to on this post , is i feel your pain about the portals.
Its just a pain in the ass. Keep the portals and set a level requirement for places to call home. Sounds like a win win if you ask me. WoW is an MMORPG there should be nothing moderate about it. The point is the the time you spend creating and leveling a toon. Not how fast you can level one ,or mindless grind for gears. Its about working together as team to take down instances and raids. Then being rewarded for good team work. not be rewarded for how many times youve ran the same instance or raid over and over. Thats what WOTLK was all about grinding for gear .
Cat. seems like there trying to bring back the hard. Bosses have more health..some bosses are harder to kill then before. Changing the tank in spank to, Hey we actually need to use are brain. Lots of games have gone through revamps to appeal to newer players. Some of us who have been playing for years, and have 5-10 capped toons are not really intrested in revamped. As most of us do not want or need to look back on older content. Thats fine! you dont have to , and thats the point. 80-85 is going to be much harder then WOTLK 70-80. So there will be enough for your 10 level 80's to keep you occupied for awhile.
Trying to appeal to a new playerbase and in old one at the same time is not easy, but if anybody can do better than anybody its blizzard. So if you wanna go QQ about Cat. thats fine. Its your choice. Your probably the type of person that prefers fast food over a good home cooked meal.
Me i would rather eat a nice grilled Ribeye over a Double Wopper anyday. Even if i have to cook it myself!
as for lore WTF! who really gives a shit? No Offense if you do , but man ....WHY?
I personaly have enjoyed the new changes despite some minor bug issues.
Lets be honest here WOTLK was horrible! Only thing i can relate to on this post , is i feel your pain about the portals.
Its just a pain in the ass. Keep the portals and set a level requirement for places to call home. Sounds like a win win if you ask me. WoW is an MMORPG there should be nothing moderate about it. The point is the the time you spend creating and leveling a toon. Not how fast you can level one ,or mindless grind for gears. Its about working together as team to take down instances and raids. Then being rewarded for good team work. not be rewarded for how many times youve ran the same instance or raid over and over. Thats what WOTLK was all about grinding for gear .
Cat. seems like there trying to bring back the hard. Bosses have more health..some bosses are harder to kill then before. Changing the tank in spank to, Hey we actually need to use are brain. Lots of games have gone through revamps to appeal to newer players. Some of us who have been playing for years, and have 5-10 capped toons are not really intrested in revamped. As most of us do not want or need to look back on older content. Thats fine! you dont have to , and thats the point. 80-85 is going to be much harder then WOTLK 70-80. So there will be enough for your 10 level 80's to keep you occupied for awhile.
Trying to appeal to a new playerbase and in old one at the same time is not easy, but if anybody can do better than anybody its blizzard. So if you wanna go QQ about Cat. thats fine. Its your choice. Your probably the type of person that prefers fast food over a good home cooked meal.
Me i would rather eat a nice grilled Ribeye over a Double Wopper anyday. Even if i have to cook it myself!
as for lore WTF! who really gives a shit? No Offense if you do , but man ....WHY?
He are we talking about the same sales pitch , seems like a copy from TBC , WOTLK , and will be used again next expansion in 2 years .
DID they already marco that so fast ? Firs off all wotlk was terrific , second off all suddenly its terrible ?
Godsake make up your mind , TBC was terrible last time , and Classic was terrible last time ...
I really hate these kind of speech , but Wotlk was not terrible TOC and ICC were terrrible .
Game should have ended with ulduar , instead of free epix . and icc bad bad 4 boss free epix ..
See give casuals what they want and they start to moan free epix , now lets see them moan in 3 more months .
ITS TOO HARD .... its no fun , random pug doesn´´t work , my guildies dont want to take me to heroic dungeons .
It does a disservice to the original (and well done for a game) lore.
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW, I played for over 18 months and was only peripherally aware of the storyline behind it. I'm usually only concerned about changes like this as they relate to the impact on gameplay.
Just shows we all play MMORPG's for different reasons I guess.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I personaly have enjoyed the new changes despite some minor bug issues.
Lets be honest here WOTLK was horrible! Only thing i can relate to on this post , is i feel your pain about the portals.
Its just a pain in the ass. Keep the portals and set a level requirement for places to call home. Sounds like a win win if you ask me. WoW is an MMORPG there should be nothing moderate about it. The point is the the time you spend creating and leveling a toon. Not how fast you can level one ,or mindless grind for gears. Its about working together as team to take down instances and raids. Then being rewarded for good team work. not be rewarded for how many times youve ran the same instance or raid over and over. Thats what WOTLK was all about grinding for gear .
Cat. seems like there trying to bring back the hard. Bosses have more health..some bosses are harder to kill then before. Changing the tank in spank to, Hey we actually need to use are brain. Lots of games have gone through revamps to appeal to newer players. Some of us who have been playing for years, and have 5-10 capped toons are not really intrested in revamped. As most of us do not want or need to look back on older content. Thats fine! you dont have to , and thats the point. 80-85 is going to be much harder then WOTLK 70-80. So there will be enough for your 10 level 80's to keep you occupied for awhile.
Trying to appeal to a new playerbase and in old one at the same time is not easy, but if anybody can do better than anybody its blizzard. So if you wanna go QQ about Cat. thats fine. Its your choice. Your probably the type of person that prefers fast food over a good home cooked meal.
Me i would rather eat a nice grilled Ribeye over a Double Wopper anyday. Even if i have to cook it myself!
as for lore WTF! who really gives a shit? No Offense if you do , but man ....WHY?
He are we talking about the same sales pitch , seems like a copy from TBC , WOTLK , and will be used again next expansion in 2 years .
DID they already marco that so fast ? Firs off all wotlk was terrific , second off all suddenly its terrible ?
Godsake make up your mind , TBC was terrible last time , and Classic was terrible last time ...
I really hate these kind of speech , but Wotlk was not terrible TOC and ICC were terrrible .
Game should have ended with ulduar , instead of free epix . and icc bad bad 4 boss free epix ..
See give casuals what they want and they start to moan free epix , now lets see them moan in 3 more months .
ITS TOO HARD .... its no fun , random pug doesn´´t work , my guildies dont want to take me to heroic dungeons .
I never said TBC was terrible nor am i pitching a sell. Opinions are like Buttholes..everybody has got one!
If you liked WOTLK? good for you! You have that right.
Originally posted by Kyleran Alliance Shaman. Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted. I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
If you know nothing about the lore then why do make these comments. peoples use to bitch about how blizz limits the game and not allowing every class for every race. now that they did peoples bitch about the opposite. Plus what lore did it break? this is not lotro with an existing lore. That game can break it if they deviate a bit. Warcraft is blizz's property and they can evolve it as they wish.
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
If you know nothing about the lore then why do make these comments. peoples use to bitch about how blizz limits the game and not allowing every class for every race. now that they did peoples bitch about the opposite. Plus what lore did it break? this is not lotro with an existing lore. That game can break it if they deviate a bit. Warcraft is blizz's property and they can evolve it as they wish.
You're missing my point, I don't care about the lore. My comment was directed against the change in gameplay which i did not support, so you're right I bitched about the change. (no, wait, I didn't bitch, I quit playing WOW just before BC released)
You win....Blizzard can change the lore any way they like, not like it matters anyway.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Overall for me I am having fun - fun! I think Blizzard did a bang up job on installing new areas and other unique things in game. Even in the Dwarven newb zone, when the critters smack ya and you get tossed backwards was fun (after the first shock of it) LOL!
Yes, not having the portals got me for awhile, but am adjusting to not having them atm. Have found other ways to get around or - if I must... ask a high lvl mage nicely to port me where I need to go plus a nice tip also.
It is great for me! For now I am content with all the exploring I am doing. Yes, still I miss my old Azeroth, but starting to love this new Azeroth better.
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
If you know nothing about the lore then why do make these comments. peoples use to bitch about how blizz limits the game and not allowing every class for every race. now that they did peoples bitch about the opposite. Plus what lore did it break? this is not lotro with an existing lore. That game can break it if they deviate a bit. Warcraft is blizz's property and they can evolve it as they wish.
You're missing my point, I don't care about the lore. My comment was directed against the change in gameplay which i did not support, so you're right I bitched about the change. (no, wait, I didn't bitch, I quit playing WOW just before BC released)
You win....Blizzard can change the lore any way they like, not like it matters anyway.
Because I'm curious, could you explain why you didn't like the change (pally to horde, shammy to ally)? If you were horde I don't see why you wouldn't have supported the change, as pally's were pretty unbalanced in vanilla, esp in pvp.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't even DAoC have pretty much the same classes even though the factions were different?
I don't post often, and I do see WoW in a favorable light unlike other MMORPG players. But with all that said, I just feel like Cata is a massive let down from my point of view, when it should be re-juvenating my interest in the game. Here is a short list of what I feel is akward about Cata which releases in the near future:
1. Lore wise it doesn't feel right from my point of view, especially with Garrosh being the leader of the Horde or the Forsaken deciding to act like the Scourge, the very same Scourge they fought valiantly against to defeat as it seems hypocritical from my view point. And to top it all off the alliance is seen as weak sauce all around, and the Blood Elfs/Dranaei are no where in the mix at all despite being an integral part of the game by now, or should be.
2. The re-vamping of lower level zones should be good for new players, but what of older players? Is the game encouraging alt- itis, and focusing on end game content at 85? This schizophrenic approach trying to please a large swath of gamers seems to cause problems in terms of balance (PVP) for lower levels, and end game (85) just as an example. The back stories about the new zones are interesting, but this ties into the first point as the lore seems akward, especially if you like alliance.
3. Removal of portals I think is a massive mistake seeing ALL other MMORPG's and MMO's now focus on reducing time sinks. I have always been interested in exploring the continents in World of Warcraft, and even achieved the Explorer title, so if you want to see the world it should be a CHOICE not a forced one. I doubt Blizzard has such fragile egos if not all of their player base doesn't see the new zones, so why force it? Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have people spending more time traveling than playing? This means that most likely those with short time (eg 1-2 hours) will not bother to log in. WoW made it fashionable to allow gamers with 1-2 hours of time to participate, so I don't see why they are trying to put the Geenie back in the bottle. What is done is done, and they should focus on making the main cities interesting to visit with real value or incentive.
4. The continued homogenization of classes, and specs, seems to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Now there are pure DPS that have to focus a lot more on healing in PVP and PVE with their new self healing abilities. I suppose this could lead to more fun, but then again the main point of delivering DPS is lost in the shuffle. To me Blizzard tends to gravitate to extremes to quickly, instead of using a gradual approach. Instead of dealing with how easy healers had it in WoTLK they should have minor changes, not massive nerfs to healers, and then forcing pure DPS having to rely on self healing as well. And let me add that if they continue with this homogenization, then the logical conclusion is that hunters need a very good self heal, Rets a gap closer, etc. Once you start the process of homogenization you can't turn back, and say this is good enough point to stop in the middle of the boat ride. Either you stick with the idea, or go back to the model of defined roles. This indecision is causing massive frustration with pure and hybrid DPS playerbase, so much so that they have decided they want to decrease the amount of blues posting on the new forums now.
5. The WotLK beta was praised for the vast amount of feedback provided by the devs, and many of the changes made. It could be argued because of the imbalances that took place in WotLK expansion that the devs probably don't want to listen to the feedback of players anymore which is what happened with the Cata beta. With that said, I think they could have done more listening to the player base in WotLK beta to make it even better despite being praised for actually creating a dialogue. But with the Cata beta they really dropped the ball with player feedback as it was very minimalistic to the point of being bare bones which shocked me as I was anticipating an increase in blue feedback to avoid the mistakes of WotLK. The changes in Beta were not that massive as WotLK, or even precise either, so I wonder why so much lack of movement on their part? It feels like they went throught the motions without any meaningful weight like we saw in WotLK beta when it came to DK's as an example.
In my opinion, Cata should have been delayed further because it doesn't feel like a complete expansion, and it is merely meeting a deadline for the holiday season. I wish they would have taken an extra month or two to release in February to be honest as they game needs a lot of work, and polish.
TLDR; Cliff Notes for those who cant read a Troll's QQ, WHy cant you design a game to a VERY SMALL minority of players.
My response to OP
One who thinks that everything shall always and forever be as it is now is surely nothing more than a fool.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
I don't post often, and I do see WoW in a favorable light unlike other MMORPG players. But with all that said, I just feel like Cata is a massive let down from my point of view, when it should be re-juvenating my interest in the game. Here is a short list of what I feel is akward about Cata which releases in the near future:
1. Lore wise it doesn't feel right from my point of view, especially with Garrosh being the leader of the Horde or the Forsaken deciding to act like the Scourge, the very same Scourge they fought valiantly against to defeat as it seems hypocritical from my view point. And to top it all off the alliance is seen as weak sauce all around, and the Blood Elfs/Dranaei are no where in the mix at all despite being an integral part of the game by now, or should be.
2. The re-vamping of lower level zones should be good for new players, but what of older players? Is the game encouraging alt- itis, and focusing on end game content at 85? This schizophrenic approach trying to please a large swath of gamers seems to cause problems in terms of balance (PVP) for lower levels, and end game (85) just as an example. The back stories about the new zones are interesting, but this ties into the first point as the lore seems akward, especially if you like alliance.
3. Removal of portals I think is a massive mistake seeing ALL other MMORPG's and MMO's now focus on reducing time sinks. I have always been interested in exploring the continents in World of Warcraft, and even achieved the Explorer title, so if you want to see the world it should be a CHOICE not a forced one. I doubt Blizzard has such fragile egos if not all of their player base doesn't see the new zones, so why force it? Furthermore, it doesn't make sense to have people spending more time traveling than playing? This means that most likely those with short time (eg 1-2 hours) will not bother to log in. WoW made it fashionable to allow gamers with 1-2 hours of time to participate, so I don't see why they are trying to put the Geenie back in the bottle. What is done is done, and they should focus on making the main cities interesting to visit with real value or incentive.
4. The continued homogenization of classes, and specs, seems to leave a bitter taste in my mouth. Now there are pure DPS that have to focus a lot more on healing in PVP and PVE with their new self healing abilities. I suppose this could lead to more fun, but then again the main point of delivering DPS is lost in the shuffle. To me Blizzard tends to gravitate to extremes to quickly, instead of using a gradual approach. Instead of dealing with how easy healers had it in WoTLK they should have minor changes, not massive nerfs to healers, and then forcing pure DPS having to rely on self healing as well. And let me add that if they continue with this homogenization, then the logical conclusion is that hunters need a very good self heal, Rets a gap closer, etc. Once you start the process of homogenization you can't turn back, and say this is good enough point to stop in the middle of the boat ride. Either you stick with the idea, or go back to the model of defined roles. This indecision is causing massive frustration with pure and hybrid DPS playerbase, so much so that they have decided they want to decrease the amount of blues posting on the new forums now.
5. The WotLK beta was praised for the vast amount of feedback provided by the devs, and many of the changes made. It could be argued because of the imbalances that took place in WotLK expansion that the devs probably don't want to listen to the feedback of players anymore which is what happened with the Cata beta. With that said, I think they could have done more listening to the player base in WotLK beta to make it even better despite being praised for actually creating a dialogue. But with the Cata beta they really dropped the ball with player feedback as it was very minimalistic to the point of being bare bones which shocked me as I was anticipating an increase in blue feedback to avoid the mistakes of WotLK. The changes in Beta were not that massive as WotLK, or even precise either, so I wonder why so much lack of movement on their part? It feels like they went throught the motions without any meaningful weight like we saw in WotLK beta when it came to DK's as an example.
In my opinion, Cata should have been delayed further because it doesn't feel like a complete expansion, and it is merely meeting a deadline for the holiday season. I wish they would have taken an extra month or two to release in February to be honest as they game needs a lot of work, and polish.
TLDR; Cliff Notes for those who cant read a Troll's QQ, WHy cant you design a game to a VERY SMALL minority of players.
My response to OP
One who thinks that everything shall always and forever be as it is now is surely nothing more than a fool.
This isn't the WoW forums where the community there is terrible. The community in game of WoW though is very good contrary to popular belief which surprises me how it can be so diametrically different which is why I am surprised they haven't shut down the forums yet. I don't blame GC and the blues that decided to stop posting on the damage dealing forums as it was full of flames, and trolls. Unforunately you sound like one of those WoW forumites, but I am willing to give you a chance to prove me wrong. If you believe that I am a fool, I don't care, because that is my honest opinion. Furthermore, you didn't explain why I am a fool with your own opinion, or facts.
Moving on, yes there are people that care about the lore of the game. Blizzard has went ouf ot their way to make ten mans the focus of the Cata expansion to experience the lore. The lore of Tauren Paladins for example is rather creative, but still akward from my view.
The lack of race changes is surprsing this coming expansion, as they have left Goblin racials as is. Some say that Blizzard is oblivious to how much powerfull Goblin racials are compared to other races. Others say it is because they want to encourange new people to play the new races like they did with DK's in the previous expansion. As for making money off of Goblin race changes and then nerfing them, I doubt Blizzard would sink that low, but I can't dismiss it either.
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW
The Draenei Elder Sage hero from Warcraft 3 was a Shaman.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
If you know nothing about the lore then why do make these comments. peoples use to bitch about how blizz limits the game and not allowing every class for every race. now that they did peoples bitch about the opposite. Plus what lore did it break? this is not lotro with an existing lore. That game can break it if they deviate a bit. Warcraft is blizz's property and they can evolve it as they wish.
You're missing my point, I don't care about the lore. My comment was directed against the change in gameplay which i did not support, so you're right I bitched about the change. (no, wait, I didn't bitch, I quit playing WOW just before BC released)
You win....Blizzard can change the lore any way they like, not like it matters anyway.
Surely you can see how one would miss your point about gameplay changes when using words like 'lore' instead of 'gameplay'.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but the changes that have already been implemented have brought me back to WoW for the time being. I have rolled several new characters and have stopped spending as much time on this blasted forum. For that I am thankful.
I started playing WoW a couple weeks before BC came out. Had a 70 shaman, 70 lock, and 70 priest I played for a long time then sold my account to a friend because I got bored. I bought WotLK and with that had a 80 warrior, 80 priest, 80 druid, 80 ele/resto shaman, and an 80 enhance shaman. I have gotten bored several times and quit for a few months to try other MMOs and was always let down and came back to WoW. However...After Path of the Titans was canned along with the way archaeology was going to work I really started to lose interest in Cata. Secondly I am tired of seeing people talk about how new the level 1-60 is because it is really 1-58...Just like before if you don't go to BC at 58 and WotLK at 68 you are gimping yourself on faster xp and better gear same with 78 going to Cata. With Rift right around the corner, SWTOR not far after that and then still GW2 coming out I will 100% not be paying 50$ for Cata just to level 5 levels then be bored playing the same exact endgame I have since BC. If you enjoy what Cata has to offer more power to ya.
Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game.
I started playing WoW the first time when Lich King came out (believe it hehe) and rolled a Lock on Garrosh. I had a friggin blast playing WoW then, was my first character and was pretty fun. Did somewhat OK dmg on the raid meters (i quit before Icecrown even got opened up for raiding, shorty after Ulduar was open). I ended up giving my account to a younger family member as a birthday present as I knew they wanted to start playing warcraft.
Fast forward to now, Azeroth is completely different, Blizzard had an AMAZING SALE to get up to lich king content for 20$.. I digitally upgraded to CATA
I will be roling a Worgen Warrior as I was a Blood-Elf Warlock my last go around. Then again a Goblin Shaman sounds pretty cool, I especially like the "use bank out in the world slave" option.
Comments
Please tell us..... back in the "good old days" did you have to play your toon uphill, both ways in a blinding snowstorm on the way to level 60?
You're done with your rep. Why do you care how easy it is for someone six years later to get theirs?
WHy can't you just be content with what you got now and not worry about what someone else does?
This never ceases to amaze me in MMOs; this "It was hardddddddd for me, so how come you're now making it easier for all these new people?"
"TO MICHAEL!"
I was under the impression the whole Wrathgate plague deal was done behind her back. Hence the whole quest line to retake the Undercity at her side.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
I have to agree with this based on:
Tauren Paladins and Dwarf Shaman.
It does a disservice to the original (and well done for a game) lore.
I know what you mean about the polishing of the game, but you don't know what it is like to be a developer and an MMO developer on top of that. There are things that can't really be tested fully until the game goes live, like the cross-realm instancing and BG's. I don't see how they could simulate the amount of people logged in and playing and have that many test servers before launch. It is one of those things that you can't do much about but make sure you get it right he best you can before it is pushed to the live servers. It is best sometimes to iron it out over time due to some ideas and testing features that get finalized or not during the process that can't be finalized until it is fully tested. There are TONS of things going on behind the scenes of a gigantic project like WoW you have no clue! You won't find a better engine and API like they have either, it is just a milestone that will be very difficult to reach.
I know what your talking about though, I kinda got the same feeling about the expansion, but it doesn't make Blizzard wrong, they are doing what is best for the overall game if you think about it. They are focusing on their future customers more than just their old customers. It is VERY important to make this game interesting and fun to get into and level to 85 without running customers away from the game before they even get there. I support them on this decision, but I really can't wait for the next expansion afterwards or the game updates that come later on free of charge.
Disclaimer: I don't know if you (reader) care, but this post contains information that is revealed by quests, so, *SPOILER ALERT*.
This is true, you usually don't notice such a thing until it is too late, as you're blinded by vengeance/whatever "greater good" you are seeking to notice what you've become, it's actually a quite common plot for stories. She's worried about the Forsaken being unable to procreate and she wants to dominate Lordaeron now that the Lich King is dead. Doesn't look like amateur/wrong lore work for me, especially since this isn't some fairy tail in which there are absolute good and evils.
----
Back on topic, I don't see the issue with only 5 levels being introduced as long as there is enough content. Never gauge content by the imaginary number but by the activities available and their extent.
Also, this is a monthly fee game, if they don't provide enough content to keep your sub, then simply unsub until there's more (considering you enjoy the game).
Complaining about portals? Ugh, I can see the kind of feedback that created WOTK now...
She was mad that Putress used it without her authorization which got her in big trouble then allied with Varimathras.
Also, when Putress used the super plague on Arthas it might have killed him. One thing the lore doesnt really get into is that the undead raised by Arthas is supposed to die when he dies. Sylvanas knew this so she didnt want to kill Arthas with the super plague, just weaken him so she could imprison him.
Did you forget about the Wildhammer Clan?ahh ok. I had seen it as Varimathras and Putress had been planning their thing and, when everything wen't down, Sylvanas had to react and suppress the coup.
At any rate, I like the updates to the Forsaken story and the general discomfort it creates in their relationship to the Horde.
-mklinic
"Do something right, no one remembers.
Do something wrong, no one forgets"
-from No One Remembers by In Strict Confidence
People argue about lore in wow , lore died long time ago in wow .
I find it a funny arguement . here is conclusion .
Here we need to make horde again warlike
We need to make alliance again warlike
Remove kill or change all sympathic leaders , so there is again war coming .
Done deal thats the script .
Now pass on to writers make it happen . but what about poor sylvanas , he i pay you to write what i want so do it .
But but no buts make it happen and make it plausible .
I personaly have enjoyed the new changes despite some minor bug issues.
Lets be honest here WOTLK was horrible! Only thing i can relate to on this post , is i feel your pain about the portals.
Its just a pain in the ass. Keep the portals and set a level requirement for places to call home. Sounds like a win win if you ask me. WoW is an MMORPG there should be nothing moderate about it. The point is the the time you spend creating and leveling a toon. Not how fast you can level one ,or mindless grind for gears. Its about working together as team to take down instances and raids. Then being rewarded for good team work. not be rewarded for how many times youve ran the same instance or raid over and over. Thats what WOTLK was all about grinding for gear .
Cat. seems like there trying to bring back the hard. Bosses have more health..some bosses are harder to kill then before. Changing the tank in spank to, Hey we actually need to use are brain. Lots of games have gone through revamps to appeal to newer players. Some of us who have been playing for years, and have 5-10 capped toons are not really intrested in revamped. As most of us do not want or need to look back on older content. Thats fine! you dont have to , and thats the point. 80-85 is going to be much harder then WOTLK 70-80. So there will be enough for your 10 level 80's to keep you occupied for awhile.
Trying to appeal to a new playerbase and in old one at the same time is not easy, but if anybody can do better than anybody its blizzard. So if you wanna go QQ about Cat. thats fine. Its your choice. Your probably the type of person that prefers fast food over a good home cooked meal.
Me i would rather eat a nice grilled Ribeye over a Double Wopper anyday. Even if i have to cook it myself!
as for lore WTF! who really gives a shit? No Offense if you do , but man ....WHY?
He are we talking about the same sales pitch , seems like a copy from TBC , WOTLK , and will be used again next expansion in 2 years .
DID they already marco that so fast ? Firs off all wotlk was terrific , second off all suddenly its terrible ?
Godsake make up your mind , TBC was terrible last time , and Classic was terrible last time ...
I really hate these kind of speech , but Wotlk was not terrible TOC and ICC were terrrible .
Game should have ended with ulduar , instead of free epix . and icc bad bad 4 boss free epix ..
See give casuals what they want and they start to moan free epix , now lets see them moan in 3 more months .
ITS TOO HARD .... its no fun , random pug doesn´´t work , my guildies dont want to take me to heroic dungeons .
Corrected that for you, this is when the lore went to heck in a handbasket, should have never been permitted.
I do find it interesting that people are this interested in (and concerned about) the lore of WOW, I played for over 18 months and was only peripherally aware of the storyline behind it. I'm usually only concerned about changes like this as they relate to the impact on gameplay.
Just shows we all play MMORPG's for different reasons I guess.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
I never said TBC was terrible nor am i pitching a sell. Opinions are like Buttholes..everybody has got one!
If you liked WOTLK? good for you! You have that right.
If you dont know the full lore then dont comment on it, especially when you are wrong.
LOL, if you know the full lore, you should really be asking yourself why you don't have better things to do. Besides, I never played Warcraft 3, so could care less about lore.
I was commenting from strictly a gameplay perpective, when the game launched, Alliance had Paladins, Horde had Shamans, and this was a good thing. Somes whined that it was unfair, (or Blizz decided it was too hard to balance dungeon content) so they made each class available to the other side bascially diminishing the game from my perspective (and their choice had nothing to do with the lore, I assure you)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
If you know nothing about the lore then why do make these comments. peoples use to bitch about how blizz limits the game and not allowing every class for every race. now that they did peoples bitch about the opposite. Plus what lore did it break? this is not lotro with an existing lore. That game can break it if they deviate a bit. Warcraft is blizz's property and they can evolve it as they wish.
You're missing my point, I don't care about the lore. My comment was directed against the change in gameplay which i did not support, so you're right I bitched about the change. (no, wait, I didn't bitch, I quit playing WOW just before BC released)
You win....Blizzard can change the lore any way they like, not like it matters anyway.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Overall for me I am having fun - fun! I think Blizzard did a bang up job on installing new areas and other unique things in game. Even in the Dwarven newb zone, when the critters smack ya and you get tossed backwards was fun (after the first shock of it) LOL!
Yes, not having the portals got me for awhile, but am adjusting to not having them atm. Have found other ways to get around or - if I must... ask a high lvl mage nicely to port me where I need to go plus a nice tip also.
It is great for me! For now I am content with all the exploring I am doing. Yes, still I miss my old Azeroth, but starting to love this new Azeroth better.
My 2cp anyway..
"Huntress"
Because I'm curious, could you explain why you didn't like the change (pally to horde, shammy to ally)? If you were horde I don't see why you wouldn't have supported the change, as pally's were pretty unbalanced in vanilla, esp in pvp.
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't even DAoC have pretty much the same classes even though the factions were different?
Yay Cata is going to be BC and Wrath met halfway. Thank freaking crap for that! BC was a bit too hardcore imo and wrath a bit too casual. Yay!
TLDR; Cliff Notes for those who cant read a Troll's QQ, WHy cant you design a game to a VERY SMALL minority of players.
My response to OP
One who thinks that everything shall always and forever be as it is now is surely nothing more than a fool.
"Possibly we humans can exist without actually having to fight. But many of us have chosen to fight. For what reason? To protect something? Protect what? Ourselves? The future? If we kill people to protect ourselves and this future, then what sort of future is it, and what will we have become? There is no future for those who have died. And what of those who did the killing? Is happiness to be found in a future that is grasped with blood stained hands? Is that the truth?"
This isn't the WoW forums where the community there is terrible. The community in game of WoW though is very good contrary to popular belief which surprises me how it can be so diametrically different which is why I am surprised they haven't shut down the forums yet. I don't blame GC and the blues that decided to stop posting on the damage dealing forums as it was full of flames, and trolls. Unforunately you sound like one of those WoW forumites, but I am willing to give you a chance to prove me wrong. If you believe that I am a fool, I don't care, because that is my honest opinion. Furthermore, you didn't explain why I am a fool with your own opinion, or facts.
Moving on, yes there are people that care about the lore of the game. Blizzard has went ouf ot their way to make ten mans the focus of the Cata expansion to experience the lore. The lore of Tauren Paladins for example is rather creative, but still akward from my view.
The lack of race changes is surprsing this coming expansion, as they have left Goblin racials as is. Some say that Blizzard is oblivious to how much powerfull Goblin racials are compared to other races. Others say it is because they want to encourange new people to play the new races like they did with DK's in the previous expansion. As for making money off of Goblin race changes and then nerfing them, I doubt Blizzard would sink that low, but I can't dismiss it either.
Surely you can see how one would miss your point about gameplay changes when using words like 'lore' instead of 'gameplay'.
Obviously I can't speak for everyone, but the changes that have already been implemented have brought me back to WoW for the time being. I have rolled several new characters and have stopped spending as much time on this blasted forum. For that I am thankful.
I started playing WoW a couple weeks before BC came out. Had a 70 shaman, 70 lock, and 70 priest I played for a long time then sold my account to a friend because I got bored. I bought WotLK and with that had a 80 warrior, 80 priest, 80 druid, 80 ele/resto shaman, and an 80 enhance shaman. I have gotten bored several times and quit for a few months to try other MMOs and was always let down and came back to WoW. However...After Path of the Titans was canned along with the way archaeology was going to work I really started to lose interest in Cata. Secondly I am tired of seeing people talk about how new the level 1-60 is because it is really 1-58...Just like before if you don't go to BC at 58 and WotLK at 68 you are gimping yourself on faster xp and better gear same with 78 going to Cata. With Rift right around the corner, SWTOR not far after that and then still GW2 coming out I will 100% not be paying 50$ for Cata just to level 5 levels then be bored playing the same exact endgame I have since BC. If you enjoy what Cata has to offer more power to ya.
Each player must accept the cards life deals him or her: but once they are in hand, he or she alone must decide how to play the cards in order to win the game.
I started playing WoW the first time when Lich King came out (believe it hehe) and rolled a Lock on Garrosh. I had a friggin blast playing WoW then, was my first character and was pretty fun. Did somewhat OK dmg on the raid meters (i quit before Icecrown even got opened up for raiding, shorty after Ulduar was open). I ended up giving my account to a younger family member as a birthday present as I knew they wanted to start playing warcraft.
Fast forward to now, Azeroth is completely different, Blizzard had an AMAZING SALE to get up to lich king content for 20$.. I digitally upgraded to CATA
I will be roling a Worgen Warrior as I was a Blood-Elf Warlock my last go around. Then again a Goblin Shaman sounds pretty cool, I especially like the "use bank out in the world slave" option.