I don't play EVE, so I don't know what CCP is offering, but neither Blizzard's nor SOE's MMOs (EQ2x excluded) survive off of their cash shops, and that is why there are both filled with needless fluff items.
Unless GW2 adopts some sort of a LotRO or DDO F2P model, do you really think they can sustain the entire game off of vanity item purchases?
I think GW2 will depend more on the cash shop than the sub-based MMORPGs that I've mentioned, but not to the point where the purchases in the item shop will make up for a lack of a sub-fee. The game simply won't be as much of a resource hog as the sub-based games.
Again, we shall see. Although '' p2p or it's crap'' crowd will look like suckered idiots if ArenaNet proves that this model works...
There are many games that are subscription based and good games at that like Everquest 2, WoW, Anarchy Online, Vanguard ,FFXI and a few more. Very few free games meet that standard. So just because you pay does not mean you should be feel cheated because generally paid games are better. The exception does not prove the rule. It just means one game can provide buy to play and then free to play well it does not mean every f2p game is then vindicated for their crappiness.They will remain so the exception does not exonerate them.
their is only one way these games will survive and its all fanx to the inexperienced gamers who havnt had the opportunity of experience what an mmorpg was essentially supposed to be. it all started and derived from the vr idea. im sure you all or most of you over 25 remember the virtual reality head sets that where interlinked with other headsets allowing the player to hand glide walk in fields fly planes and so on. i managed to get a go on one in a showcase about 20 years ago before online gameing was even around. it was the first real insight into multiplayer gameing in a 3d enviroment. since then the game we know to day are nothing more than comercial rainbows that you can interact with and get very little from them. and thats all the modern gamer knows and expects from a video game. over the years ive seen games become worse and worse and much lesser than they where destined to be.
games should be a virtual reality experience from your desktop pc. placeing th eplayer in a fictional world where they can be who ever they want to be and encounter other people and interact with them on a social level. their is only 1 maybe two games that even come close to this today. one of them is eve, the game relies on players interacting with one another ina realistic manner inorder for it to function and in my oppinion is the best kind of online game play and the direction all mmorpg developers should be aiming to take their games..
not these stupid wow clones or wow its self. the player can play the mmo game by himself with no need to interact or take part in the community online, that simply isnt what an mmo is. an mmo is about multiplayers in their thousands in one fictional world interacting and creating their own unique charecters and developing them.
game devs have took the wrong turn and commercialised the idea into a money makeing venture and fantastic colours to attract peoples simple minds into something far simplistic and easier to produce than what online gameing was orriginally supposed to be. and that is why all games today will survive. its all people know!!!
its a sad time for online games which is why mroe and more people and turning back to consoles.
i dont play online games to be bymyself and play the game, i can do that without an internet connection on a single player game with out having to put up wioth children online. games to day are all failed attempts of was once a fantastic revolutionary way opf interacting with technnology. they have nerfed online gameing into an unreckgnisable state.
First thing first what do people mean survive Ryzom is still kicking,APB is coming backing,Mythos is coming back,Hellgate is coming back It is hard to kill a decent MMO.Even when people talk about Vanguard,AoC,and War as a failure they fail to mention that game are still alive making money.So topic huge is failure that reguard they all will survive.It will take a giant failure for MMO to shut down and don't see that from any of these games.
Now to what topic is really about which of these games will not make back their money and have a population less than intend
STOR-is the game most like to fail and i have complete faith Bioware to make a great game but the expections and large amount money invovled in making ToR it is hard to see how it will reach it.Out of every game mention this only game that is expected by gamers and their Devs to be next challenger to WoW.The population is suppose to be high for this game but you can never tell with MMO just look at Warhammer.
GW2-This game is different status from other MMO,To judge this game success you are better off looking at Halo,Mass effect,Call of duty as a judge how well it is doing.This game most likely to have success of four mention because to don't have to pay monthly fees whichs mean can play right beside of WoW,STOR,Tera and rifts basically GW2 should be everybody second mmo.Population does not matter as much as Box sales for this game
Tera-even with its decent size budget know it is a sorf of aniche game in mmo market plus the sucess of Tera has nothing to do with english market just like PW,L2 ,Aion.Just like those games the Asian market will decide the success and from everything i can that Tera will be a huge Asia making US success not really a big deal.
Finally Rifts is going to be the shocker, it is time for me careful dance around the NDA.Rifts will be the most polish mmo to be released to date,Seriously the only probelm i encountered was servers where too full which mess with the fps so basically if Rifts launches with enough servers most people will have zero probelms on launch day.Rifts does not reinvent the wheel but after playing tons of bad innovate unpolish mmo i think people are ready for a just a good polished game.
After playing Rifts it is hard for me to see it being a failure and if they release couple of months after Cata which they will i can see this game taking alot of WoW players and unlike past mmo Rifts will not have launch probelms or huge glitches to turn away people back to its previous mmos like alot new mmo.Rifts a WoW clone and not negative sense where it is bad rip off WoW,Rifts WoW clone a high polished MMO which does alot thing as good as WoW or better plus unlike TOR it has more reasonable budget and even if it not a smash hit it will more like make back its budget and make its company a profit.
First thing first what do people mean survive Ryzom is still kicking,APB is coming backing,Mythos is coming back,Hellgate is coming back It is hard to kill a decent MMO.Even when people talk about Vanguard,AoC,and War as a failure they fail to mention that game are still alive making money.So topic huge is failure that reguard they all will survive.It will take a giant failure for MMO to shut down and don't see that from any of these games.
Now to what topic is really about which of these games will not make back their money and have a population less than intend
STOR-is the game most like to fail and i have complete faith Bioware to make a great game but the expections and large amount money invovled in making ToR it is hard to see how it will reach it.Out of every game mention this only game that is expected by gamers and their Devs to be next challenger to WoW.The population is suppose to be high for this game but you can never tell with MMO just look at Warhammer.
GW2-This game is different status from other MMO,To judge this game success you are better off looking at Halo,Mass effect,Call of duty as a judge how well it is doing.This game most likely to have success of four mention because to don't have to pay monthly fees whichs mean can play right beside of WoW,STOR,Tera and rifts basically GW2 should be everybody second mmo.Population does not matter as much as Box sales for this game
Tera-even with its decent size budget know it is a sorf of aniche game in mmo market plus the sucess of Tera has nothing to do with english market just like PW,L2 ,Aion.Just like those games the Asian market will decide the success and from everything i can that Tera will be a huge Asia making US success not really a big deal.
Finally Rifts is going to be the shocker, it is time for me careful dance around the NDA.Rifts will be the most polish mmo to be released to date,Seriously the only probelm i encountered was servers where too full which mess with the fps so basically if Rifts launches with enough servers most people will have zero probelms on launch day.Rifts does not reinvent the wheel but after playing tons of bad innovate unpolish mmo i think people are ready for a just a good polished game.
After playing Rifts it is hard for me to see it being a failure and if they release couple of months after Cata which they will i can see this game taking alot of WoW players and unlike past mmo Rifts will not have launch probelms or huge glitches to turn away people back to its previous mmos like alot new mmo.Rifts a WoW clone and not negative sense where it is bad rip off WoW,Rifts WoW clone a high polished MMO which does alot thing as good as WoW or better plus unlike TOR it has more reasonable budget and even if it not a smash hit it will more like make back its budget and make its company a profit.
IMO odds for mass success
1.GW2
2.Rifts
3.STOR/Tera
One of the most intelligent and well thought out posts I have read in quite a while. And I completely agree with what has been said.
GW2 will be a success, but as you have said its success can't be measured the same way as other MMORPG's. Instead as you suggested it would need to be measured against games like CoD to gauge its success.
Rift I agree with you on 100%, but I don't think it will be a shocker that this will be a success. Having seen the vids, read the constant and good supply of news/lore from the devs and heard the feedback from testers this game should only be one thing, a success by any standards. I expect this to be massive and am thoroughly looking forward to it.
SWTOR and TERA I don't expect to succeed. SWTOR is a single player game with barely enough content to justify the monthly fee is the way someone else better with words than me has described it, and this is why I expect it to be a flop. How many single player games do you own? I myself have more than I care to admit to, and howmany of them do I play on a daily basis? If I'm honest I might play one of them once a week if I feel like it. They are all pretty much kept in a box somewhere until a v bored day comes along, and this is the fate for swtor. After the single player experience is done and people realise the multiplayer element is poor at best the game will be shelved, and if people want to return they will have to pay for 1 month of game time which would not appeal to me. TERA when I say I don't expect it to succeed I mean in western market. In asia I am sure it will do fine, but I just can't see it doing well in the western market
I don't play EVE, so I don't know what CCP is offering, but neither Blizzard's nor SOE's MMOs (EQ2x excluded) survive off of their cash shops, and that is why there are both filled with needless fluff items.
Unless GW2 adopts some sort of a LotRO or DDO F2P model, do you really think they can sustain the entire game off of vanity item purchases?
I think GW2 will depend more on the cash shop than the sub-based MMORPGs that I've mentioned, but not to the point where the purchases in the item shop will make up for a lack of a sub-fee. The game simply won't be as much of a resource hog as the sub-based games.
Again, we shall see. Although '' p2p or it's crap'' crowd will look like suckered idiots if ArenaNet proves that this model works...
GW2 will generate more cash with expansion content. In fact it makes sense to make a great mmo and then see it return costs and profits over the next good number of years without having to build from scratch... a bit like wow has done, in fact. I believe SWTOR will do the same. One of the features of the engine they're using is "fast delivery of new content".
I don't play EVE, so I don't know what CCP is offering, but neither Blizzard's nor SOE's MMOs (EQ2x excluded) survive off of their cash shops, and that is why there are both filled with needless fluff items.
Unless GW2 adopts some sort of a LotRO or DDO F2P model, do you really think they can sustain the entire game off of vanity item purchases?
I think GW2 will depend more on the cash shop than the sub-based MMORPGs that I've mentioned, but not to the point where the purchases in the item shop will make up for a lack of a sub-fee. The game simply won't be as much of a resource hog as the sub-based games.
Again, we shall see. Although '' p2p or it's crap'' crowd will look like suckered idiots if ArenaNet proves that this model works...
the "p2p or its crap" crowd doesnt say that the model can't work. they say that all current F2P + cash shop models are crap, and they games they wrap up also happen to be utter crap in 99,99999% of cases. actually they would still be absolutly worthless pieces of shit even if they were fully free period.
the model definetly can work for a Triple A games, but it would take a honest publisher and a fair cash shop model, something that the industry is yet to witness.
1. I know a lot of people say that story telling from text is OK, but then they also admit that voice over would be better.
And then there are the people that have actually played the MMOs with mass/full voiceovers and have found that it gets old really fast and makes very little difference.
2. Both games have their own player base.
Right, because having a playerbase worked out so well for Dungeons & Dragons, The Matrix and Star Trek. Having a playerbase means nothing. If the game is bad ,it's bad.
3. Since FFXIV screwed up, I think more people will know about the up coming MMOs. (I had no idea of existance of any other MMO other then FFXIV, I had assumed that I'd be playing XIV 4-7 hours a day, just like I played FFXI. After I realized how terrible XIV is, I wanted to find out if there were any up coming MMOs).
This helps all games equally. Probably helps TERA more than anything, since it's the only "asian-style" game of the 3.
4. The depth of story telling SWTOR and GW2 have, I have not seen in any other MMO, ofcourse Voiced over. I don't count story telling by text, might as well read a novel.
Well you have us in a disadvantage as most of us haven't yet played those games and haven't seen their "depth of storytelling". Ultimately telling the pre-written story is just a minor part of an MMO, so even if these games do it "better than ever", that still leaves many other very important things consider. It's like saying "as long a game gets the UI right, it'll be amazing!" - it's just not that simple. Aside from solo story/questing, there are things like combat, progression, itemization, world interaction, economy, social building, crafting, explorationg, character customization, skill system, etc, etc, etc.
/shrug.
Personally i have fairly low expecations of all these games. I'm in the Rift beta and will likely buy it on launch to mess around. I expect SWTOR will around the end of the year and I'll probably buy that just to do the single-player thing and go through the storyline. If it turns out be a decent MMO, all the better. No plans to touch either Tera or GW2 unless i hear absolutely amazing things about them from people i trust.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall Currently Playing: ESO
Comments
Again, we shall see. Although '' p2p or it's crap'' crowd will look like suckered idiots if ArenaNet proves that this model works...
There are many games that are subscription based and good games at that like Everquest 2, WoW, Anarchy Online, Vanguard ,FFXI and a few more. Very few free games meet that standard. So just because you pay does not mean you should be feel cheated because generally paid games are better. The exception does not prove the rule. It just means one game can provide buy to play and then free to play well it does not mean every f2p game is then vindicated for their crappiness.They will remain so the exception does not exonerate them.
their is only one way these games will survive and its all fanx to the inexperienced gamers who havnt had the opportunity of experience what an mmorpg was essentially supposed to be. it all started and derived from the vr idea. im sure you all or most of you over 25 remember the virtual reality head sets that where interlinked with other headsets allowing the player to hand glide walk in fields fly planes and so on. i managed to get a go on one in a showcase about 20 years ago before online gameing was even around. it was the first real insight into multiplayer gameing in a 3d enviroment. since then the game we know to day are nothing more than comercial rainbows that you can interact with and get very little from them. and thats all the modern gamer knows and expects from a video game. over the years ive seen games become worse and worse and much lesser than they where destined to be.
games should be a virtual reality experience from your desktop pc. placeing th eplayer in a fictional world where they can be who ever they want to be and encounter other people and interact with them on a social level. their is only 1 maybe two games that even come close to this today. one of them is eve, the game relies on players interacting with one another ina realistic manner inorder for it to function and in my oppinion is the best kind of online game play and the direction all mmorpg developers should be aiming to take their games..
not these stupid wow clones or wow its self. the player can play the mmo game by himself with no need to interact or take part in the community online, that simply isnt what an mmo is. an mmo is about multiplayers in their thousands in one fictional world interacting and creating their own unique charecters and developing them.
game devs have took the wrong turn and commercialised the idea into a money makeing venture and fantastic colours to attract peoples simple minds into something far simplistic and easier to produce than what online gameing was orriginally supposed to be. and that is why all games today will survive. its all people know!!!
its a sad time for online games which is why mroe and more people and turning back to consoles.
i dont play online games to be bymyself and play the game, i can do that without an internet connection on a single player game with out having to put up wioth children online. games to day are all failed attempts of was once a fantastic revolutionary way opf interacting with technnology. they have nerfed online gameing into an unreckgnisable state.
its dissapointing
First thing first what do people mean survive Ryzom is still kicking,APB is coming backing,Mythos is coming back,Hellgate is coming back It is hard to kill a decent MMO.Even when people talk about Vanguard,AoC,and War as a failure they fail to mention that game are still alive making money.So topic huge is failure that reguard they all will survive.It will take a giant failure for MMO to shut down and don't see that from any of these games.
Now to what topic is really about which of these games will not make back their money and have a population less than intend
STOR-is the game most like to fail and i have complete faith Bioware to make a great game but the expections and large amount money invovled in making ToR it is hard to see how it will reach it.Out of every game mention this only game that is expected by gamers and their Devs to be next challenger to WoW.The population is suppose to be high for this game but you can never tell with MMO just look at Warhammer.
GW2-This game is different status from other MMO,To judge this game success you are better off looking at Halo,Mass effect,Call of duty as a judge how well it is doing.This game most likely to have success of four mention because to don't have to pay monthly fees whichs mean can play right beside of WoW,STOR,Tera and rifts basically GW2 should be everybody second mmo.Population does not matter as much as Box sales for this game
Tera-even with its decent size budget know it is a sorf of aniche game in mmo market plus the sucess of Tera has nothing to do with english market just like PW,L2 ,Aion.Just like those games the Asian market will decide the success and from everything i can that Tera will be a huge Asia making US success not really a big deal.
Finally Rifts is going to be the shocker, it is time for me careful dance around the NDA.Rifts will be the most polish mmo to be released to date,Seriously the only probelm i encountered was servers where too full which mess with the fps so basically if Rifts launches with enough servers most people will have zero probelms on launch day.Rifts does not reinvent the wheel but after playing tons of bad innovate unpolish mmo i think people are ready for a just a good polished game.
After playing Rifts it is hard for me to see it being a failure and if they release couple of months after Cata which they will i can see this game taking alot of WoW players and unlike past mmo Rifts will not have launch probelms or huge glitches to turn away people back to its previous mmos like alot new mmo.Rifts a WoW clone and not negative sense where it is bad rip off WoW,Rifts WoW clone a high polished MMO which does alot thing as good as WoW or better plus unlike TOR it has more reasonable budget and even if it not a smash hit it will more like make back its budget and make its company a profit.
IMO odds for mass success
1.GW2
2.Rifts
3.STOR/Tera
One of the most intelligent and well thought out posts I have read in quite a while. And I completely agree with what has been said.
GW2 will be a success, but as you have said its success can't be measured the same way as other MMORPG's. Instead as you suggested it would need to be measured against games like CoD to gauge its success.
Rift I agree with you on 100%, but I don't think it will be a shocker that this will be a success. Having seen the vids, read the constant and good supply of news/lore from the devs and heard the feedback from testers this game should only be one thing, a success by any standards. I expect this to be massive and am thoroughly looking forward to it.
SWTOR and TERA I don't expect to succeed. SWTOR is a single player game with barely enough content to justify the monthly fee is the way someone else better with words than me has described it, and this is why I expect it to be a flop. How many single player games do you own? I myself have more than I care to admit to, and howmany of them do I play on a daily basis? If I'm honest I might play one of them once a week if I feel like it. They are all pretty much kept in a box somewhere until a v bored day comes along, and this is the fate for swtor. After the single player experience is done and people realise the multiplayer element is poor at best the game will be shelved, and if people want to return they will have to pay for 1 month of game time which would not appeal to me. TERA when I say I don't expect it to succeed I mean in western market. In asia I am sure it will do fine, but I just can't see it doing well in the western market
This thread:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K83gqiRd2XI&feature=related
GW2 will generate more cash with expansion content. In fact it makes sense to make a great mmo and then see it return costs and profits over the next good number of years without having to build from scratch... a bit like wow has done, in fact. I believe SWTOR will do the same. One of the features of the engine they're using is "fast delivery of new content".
http://www.gdcvault.com/play/1014633/Classic-Game-Postmortem
the "p2p or its crap" crowd doesnt say that the model can't work. they say that all current F2P + cash shop models are crap, and they games they wrap up also happen to be utter crap in 99,99999% of cases. actually they would still be absolutly worthless pieces of shit even if they were fully free period.
the model definetly can work for a Triple A games, but it would take a honest publisher and a fair cash shop model, something that the industry is yet to witness.
it remains to be seen if ANet scores that...
/shrug.
Personally i have fairly low expecations of all these games. I'm in the Rift beta and will likely buy it on launch to mess around. I expect SWTOR will around the end of the year and I'll probably buy that just to do the single-player thing and go through the storyline. If it turns out be a decent MMO, all the better. No plans to touch either Tera or GW2 unless i hear absolutely amazing things about them from people i trust.
"Id rather work on something with great potential than on fulfilling a promise of mediocrity."
- Raph Koster
Tried: AO,EQ,EQ2,DAoC,SWG,AA,SB,HZ,CoX,PS,GA,TR,IV,GnH,EVE, PP,DnL,WAR,MxO,SWG,FE,VG,AoC,DDO,LoTRO,Rift,TOR,Aion,Tera,TSW,GW2,DCUO,CO,STO
Favourites: AO,SWG,EVE,TR,LoTRO,TSW,EQ2, Firefall
Currently Playing: ESO