12 million subscribers is not the same as 12 million people logged in at the same time.
I personally believe the numbers are inflated (either way it's still going to have the highest sub figures in the western P2P MMO market), it really doesn't bother me one way or another, nor should it to anyone else. Enjoy the game, play it. Don't enjoy it and avoid it. Simple.
Over 1/3 of the Asian servers do not service China. Not every player outside the western market lives in China.
Warcraft has somewhere between 800-900 game servers (I forget offhand). Compare that to other games to get an idea of just how many that is.
Pay by the month or by they hour still equates to a subscribing to a product. Be it an MMO or a cell phone plan or video rental. Paying money for access to a service, it's all the same.
If someone paid to play for a single hour, how on earth is that the same thing as someone buying a full subscription?
Over 1/3 of the Asian servers do not service China. Not every player outside the western market lives in China.
Warcraft has somewhere between 800-900 game servers (I forget offhand). Compare that to other games to get an idea of just how many that is.
Pay by the month or by they hour still equates to a subscribing to a product. Be it an MMO or a cell phone plan or video rental. Paying money for access to a service, it's all the same.
If someone paid to play for a single hour, how on earth is that the same thing as someone buying a full subscription?
It isn't the same exact thing, but it is still two people who have paid money for access to the game in the same month. Why should someone be disincluded just because they pay based on a model that is the norm for their geography?
In the west we pay for a set number of game minutes that expire after 30 days. In the east they pay for a set number of game minutes that only expire when they are used up. Both are still subscribers, they just use different subscription models.
I'm curious, are you (or other people) trying to suggest that there is some huge number of players only logging into wow 1 hour a month and that is somehow inflating the subscription numbers? I'm just not seeing what the point of debating about what would amount to almost nothing in terms of subscriber base of these phantom 1 hour players.
You guys know that Blizzard is public company and can't just lie about its numbers? it's not some joke guys they can get into trouble for making up sub numbers.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
people cant believe that other ones have fun with games which they dont
"i don't like it! no way 12m users! so obvious"
let's say it this way, they sold 3.3 MILLION copies on day one ^^
whoever thinks they do not have subs, should stop trolling imo
uh, and one might concider the fact that asia actually is in a much later time zone (which are about 6 million subs), duno how that calculates into this day one storry :>
@ server max: people dont allways log in at the same time, there are pupils, workers, unemployed, and they all run on different time schedules, eg, something like 2k at nite, 2 times 3k at day (just made up those numbers dont slay me)..
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Something about Denial not being a river in Egypt.
Yes that 3.3 million figure should be a clue. Also 20 % population was a study done when games had all the world's population playing on their servers so it was busy at various times of the day. Nowadays with localized servers that figure may have to be revised. However the sheer numbers of servers in Europe and North America gives you an indication and that is not including the Asian numbers.
They are also a public company who knowing the number of people who hate them would not leave themselves open to such easy prosecution for lying on these figures. What a stupid thing to be caught at lying at and be found out so easily. I am sure much more resourceful people than those on these boards would have considered catching them on these figures. So like they say in Korean "keman eh" stop it.
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Blizzard lies about subscriber numbers. If you are one of those people, why do you think that?
Is it because you hate WoW and you don’t want it to be as successful as Blizzard claims it is? Do you think that the game is crappy and there is no way that many people actually like it? What evidence do you actually have?
Cause they fudge sub numbers , its confirmed , 8 million subscribers suddenly when China Left the market for a while
4 million less , (and chinese system is not even subscribers base , but pay per hour)
Is income same as sub numbers ?
No it isn´t , is players same as sub numbers ? no again it isn´t.
Is wow currently the biggest in the WEST , yes it is , but honestly EUROPE is already bigger then N/A subscribers.
They just play into , marketing hype , bigger numbers will always convince people to stay .
12 million people cannot be wrong in playing this game.
Its driven by well oiled political system , that the world loves , You dont want to be the only geek playing 10 hours a day , neglecting your real life , left unemployed striving to be world first , it must have a deeper meaning .
Truth is , you are playing a computer game and waisting time , fine if you can spare it , not fine when you are in the prime of your life .
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Blizzard lies about subscriber numbers. If you are one of those people, why do you think that?
Is it because you hate WoW and you don’t want it to be as successful as Blizzard claims it is? Do you think that the game is crappy and there is no way that many people actually like it? What evidence do you actually have?
The whole reason is because Blizzard includes both monthly fees and hourly subs in the number.
In the west people pay their 15 bucks a month like all other MMOs. That is easy to compare fairly if you for a fact know how many players pay monthly fees.
In Asia they pay hourly fees (I heard it is 12 cents).
That makes comparing Wows numbers with both P2P and B2P games unfair.
Unfair with the F2P games because anyone who ever make an account is counted by them.
And unfair against the P2P games as well because a guy from China might log on and play 2-3 hour a month and still count as a full player. People rarely would bother something like that in a P2P game with only monthly fees and Blizzard might only earn 3 dollars a year from a guy like that.
So the whole issue is that Blizzard have 2 very different kind of subscribers as they count as the same. That isn't exactly lying but it makes it impossible to compare the game fairly with other games.
No matter what is Wow still the largest in the west but Blizzard could be clearer with their sub numbers.
Heresy and nonsense. It's just that WoW has more females playing WoW than in other MMOs. If you have a girlfriend or wife, there is a high chance they would experiment with WoW if they never played. LOL
Keep in mind their economy works radically different from ours, so if that is the system that works there, who are you to say "it does not count"?
You definitely hit a nail on the head there.
Many people take a very Western-centric view on everything. The attitude in many cases seems to be that the rest of the world should be catering specifically to what us Westerners expect... and screw the other parts of the world. They don't matter.
Take Lineage 2 for example. The game is definitely taking a nose-dive here in the Western market. It's still, however, doing quite well in itsprimary Eastern market. I believe they have easily somewhere north of 1 million players; maybe more. The Western market has been gravy to them, pretty much.
Regardless, there have been people who insist that Lineage 2 is a failure of a MMO because it's not doing great here in the West; that NCSoft should just take it offline and not make anymore MMOs until they "understand what Western gamers expect and can develop a good MMO". Every time I read a post like that, the only thing I can think is "Get the hell over yourself. Then open your eyes and realize there's a whole big world out there, and us "Westerners" aren't the center of it..
And that's just for L2. The same display of ignorance plays out with just about any Eastern developed MMO that isn't designed to cater specifically to so-called "Western Gamers".
The point being missed is: They don't have to understand the Western playerbase because the Western playerbase isn't their core market for that particular game.
Their core playerbase is in the East. Thus, the game is designed more for that style of gameplay.
Unfortunately, many people refuse to see past their own nose, much less realize the rest of the world doesn't revolve around Western culture, nor do they consider it "superior" to their own.
Bringing it back to this thread... I see it being a very likely reason why people try to dismiss the Eastern market numbers. Because, as illustrated above, for some... if it's not "The Western Market", it may as well not exist.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Cause they fudge sub numbers , its confirmed , 8 million subscribers suddenly when China Left the market for a while
4 million less , (and chinese system is not even subscribers base , but pay per hour)
Not that your statement makes much sense, but do you have some sort of proof that confirms blizzard fudges numbers as you claim? Where is your confirmation?
Honestly from what you just posted it sounds like you are confirming that blizzard has exactly how many subscribers as they claim.
A lot of people seem to be under the impression that Blizzard lies about subscriber numbers. If you are one of those people, why do you think that?
Is it because you hate WoW and you don’t want it to be as successful as Blizzard claims it is? Do you think that the game is crappy and there is no way that many people actually like it? What evidence do you actually have?
Cause they fudge sub numbers , its confirmed , 8 million subscribers suddenly when China Left the market for a while
4 million less , (and chinese system is not even subscribers base , but pay per hour)
Is income same as sub numbers ?
No it isn´t , is players same as sub numbers ? no again it isn´t.
Is wow currently the biggest in the WEST , yes it is , but honestly EUROPE is already bigger then N/A subscribers.
They just play into , marketing hype , bigger numbers will always convince people to stay .
12 million people cannot be wrong in playing this game.
Its driven by well oiled political system , that the world loves , You dont want to be the only geek playing 10 hours a day , neglecting your real life , left unemployed striving to be world first , it must have a deeper meaning .
Truth is , you are playing a computer game and waisting time , fine if you can spare it , not fine when you are in the prime of your life .
How many times someone has to remind people like you that Blizzard is a public company and can not fudge numbers without getting into big trouble with investors and share holders? how hard it is to understand something so simple? they will be eaten alive if they try to fool anyone.
The whole reason is because Blizzard includes both monthly fees and hourly subs in the number.
In the west people pay their 15 bucks a month like all other MMOs. That is easy to compare fairly if you for a fact know how many players pay monthly fees.
In Asia they pay hourly fees (I heard it is 12 cents).
That makes comparing Wows numbers with both P2P and B2P games unfair.
Unfair with the F2P games because anyone who ever make an account is counted by them.
And unfair against the P2P games as well because a guy from China might log on and play 2-3 hour a month and still count as a full player. People rarely would bother something like that in a P2P game with only monthly fees and Blizzard might only earn 3 dollars a year from a guy like that.
So the whole issue is that Blizzard have 2 very different kind of subscribers as they count as the same. That isn't exactly lying but it makes it impossible to compare the game fairly with other games.
No matter what is Wow still the largest in the west but Blizzard could be clearer with their sub numbers.
I'm curious how this is a contest of fairness. Blizzard is making the statement that in total they have 12 million people paying for access to WoW in any given 30 day period. It isn't a statement about how they compare to other games.
I'm sure that if other companies game actually held enough interest in the asian market they would include their subscriber numbers in their totals too. Much like most asian games don't do well in the west, most western games have closed down or done so poorly they have little to no impact on totals. I would guess any mmo company would kill to only have the amount of success wow has had in the asian market. Even at the low revenue per player I would bet wow-asia out produces most other mmos on the market.
How many times someone has to remind people like you that Blizzard is a public company and can not fudge numbers without getting into big trouble with investors and share holders? how hard it is to understand something so simple? they will be eaten alive if they try to fool anyone.
And are you a shareholder ? Do you even get financiel report ?
Do you even understand what crisis did ?
Or why this year the market speculation is going to be a bit boring ?
Eaten ALIVE ? after wikileaks about federal reserves ?
LoL you still live in the old world , while most of us have moved on to accept stuff as it is .
Its rehersing commercial crap like this that makes me doubt , it doesn´t matter as long people dont want to know.
The TOP is right , people are ignorant and thus need those lies in place .
You know you dare even to state that , with last 3 years happening on the market , shows me how much credit these post are.
How many times someone has to remind people like you that Blizzard is a public company and can not fudge numbers without getting into big trouble with investors and share holders? how hard it is to understand something so simple? they will be eaten alive if they try to fool anyone.
And are you a shareholder ? Do you even get financiel report ?
Do you even understand what crisis did ?
Or why this year the market speculation is going to be a bit boring ?
Eaten ALIVE ? after wikileaks about federal reserves ?
LoL you still live in the old world , while most of us have moved on to accept stuff as it is .
Its rehersing commercial crap like this that makes me doubt , it doesn´t matter as long people dont want to know.
The TOP is right , people are ignorant and thus need those lies in place .
You know you dare even to state that , with last 3 years happening on the market , shows me how much credit these post are.
Why don't you have a look at their financial report yourself? they publish it every year. So please stop calling other ignorant when you don't even understand the law and how they can get in big trouble. Such hate for WOW that you even throw logic out of the window.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no? Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
How many times someone has to remind people like you that Blizzard is a public company and can not fudge numbers without getting into big trouble with investors and share holders? how hard it is to understand something so simple? they will be eaten alive if they try to fool anyone.
And are you a shareholder ? Do you even get financiel report ?
Do you even understand what crisis did ?
Or why this year the market speculation is going to be a bit boring ?
Eaten ALIVE ? after wikileaks about federal reserves ?
LoL you still live in the old world , while most of us have moved on to accept stuff as it is .
Its rehersing commercial crap like this that makes me doubt , it doesn´t matter as long people dont want to know.
The TOP is right , people are ignorant and thus need those lies in place .
You know you dare even to state that , with last 3 years happening on the market , shows me how much credit these post are.
Let me see..umm whom should i trust. A random WOW hater on the forums with nothing to back up his claims or a publicly listed big company with huge responsibilty on its shoulders towards its share holders and their need to be transparent.
You mean players don't want to debate your conspiracy theories? how about we debate something where you have actually something to back up what you are saying and not just your own theories (you ,know the one you keep pulling out of your a**)? just wear your tin foil hat and go sit in the corner unless you got something to prove that Blizzard is fudging up numbers and lying to its investors every year.
3.3m copies of Cata sold the very first day. That's more than 1/4th of the questioned sub numbers. So yes, it's absolutely reasonable that WoW does have 12m people.
Many people take a very Western-centric view on everything. The attitude in many cases seems to be that the rest of the world should be catering specifically to what us Westerners expect... and screw the other parts of the world. They don't matter.
Take Lineage 2 for example. The game is definitely taking a nose-dive here in the Western market. It's still, however, doing quite well in itsprimary Eastern market. I believe they have easily somewhere north of 1 million players; maybe more. The Western market has been gravy to them, pretty much.
Regardless, there have been people who insist that Lineage 2 is a failure of a MMO because it's not doing great here in the West; that NCSoft should just take it offline and not make anymore MMOs until they "understand what Western gamers expect and can develop a good MMO". Every time I read a post like that, the only thing I can think is "Get the hell over yourself. Then open your eyes and realize there's a whole big world out there, and us "Westerners" aren't the center of it..
And that's just for L2. The same display of ignorance plays out with just about any Eastern developed MMO that isn't designed to cater specifically to so-called "Western Gamers".
The point being missed is: They don't have to understand the Western playerbase because the Western playerbase isn't their core market for that particular game.
Their core playerbase is in the East. Thus, the game is designed more for that style of gameplay.
Unfortunately, many people refuse to see past their own nose, much less realize the rest of the world doesn't revolve around Western culture, nor do they consider it "superior" to their own.
Bringing it back to this thread... I see it being a very likely reason why people try to dismiss the Eastern market numbers. Because, as illustrated above, for some... if it's not "The Western Market", it may as well not exist.
I totally agree with you, we are all humans.
But the difference here is between people who pay 15 bucks a month and 12 cents an hour. Is it fair to count someone who pays for one or a few hours as the same who pays for a full month?
Of course some are paying for loads of hours but still should people who pay monthly and people who pay by the hour be counted in different ways. It is a lot easier to get people to pay a few cents to play a little at time than for them to put out 15 bucks a month, and it is a huge difference in income for the company.
Saying that someone doesn't count because he is from a different part of the world than you is racism, we want nothing of that in this forum, just check the FAQ.
Saying that people who pay for playing one measly hour ala 12 cents counts as much as someone who pays for an entire month is very different indeed.
And there have been some people suggesting that Blizzard count people who didn't buy any gametime every month, if that is true Wows number indeed is "fudgy" but hopefully do they count fairly.
Still, Blizzard should give a number for monthly fees and another one for hourly, anything else is unfair when you compare numbers.
Many people take a very Western-centric view on everything. The attitude in many cases seems to be that the rest of the world should be catering specifically to what us Westerners expect... and screw the other parts of the world. They don't matter.
Take Lineage 2 for example. The game is definitely taking a nose-dive here in the Western market. It's still, however, doing quite well in itsprimary Eastern market. I believe they have easily somewhere north of 1 million players; maybe more. The Western market has been gravy to them, pretty much.
Regardless, there have been people who insist that Lineage 2 is a failure of a MMO because it's not doing great here in the West; that NCSoft should just take it offline and not make anymore MMOs until they "understand what Western gamers expect and can develop a good MMO". Every time I read a post like that, the only thing I can think is "Get the hell over yourself. Then open your eyes and realize there's a whole big world out there, and us "Westerners" aren't the center of it..
And that's just for L2. The same display of ignorance plays out with just about any Eastern developed MMO that isn't designed to cater specifically to so-called "Western Gamers".
The point being missed is: They don't have to understand the Western playerbase because the Western playerbase isn't their core market for that particular game.
Their core playerbase is in the East. Thus, the game is designed more for that style of gameplay.
Unfortunately, many people refuse to see past their own nose, much less realize the rest of the world doesn't revolve around Western culture, nor do they consider it "superior" to their own.
Bringing it back to this thread... I see it being a very likely reason why people try to dismiss the Eastern market numbers. Because, as illustrated above, for some... if it's not "The Western Market", it may as well not exist.
I totally agree with you, we are all humans.
But the difference here is between people who pay 15 bucks a month and 12 cents an hour. Is it fair to count someone who pays for one or a few hours as the same who pays for a full month?
Of course some are paying for loads of hours but still should people who pay monthly and people who pay by the hour be counted in different ways. It is a lot easier to get people to pay a few cents to play a little at time than for them to put out 15 bucks a month, and it is a huge difference in income for the company.
Saying that someone doesn't count because he is from a different part of the world than you is racism, we want nothing of that in this forum, just check the FAQ.
Saying that people who pay for playing one measly hour ala 12 cents counts as much as someone who pays for an entire month is very different indeed.
And there have been some people suggesting that Blizzard count people who didn't buy any gametime every month, if that is true Wows number indeed is "fudgy" but hopefully do they count fairly.
Still, Blizzard should give a number for monthly fees and another one for hourly, anything else is unfair when you compare numbers.
What it is with this myth of the Asian person that, for some weird reason, plays only one hour a month?? Where are these weird guys? do you have any proof of their existence?
No????
So how can you say there is a difference? Do you know what is the average pay for a Chinese person when compared to someone living in the West?
No????
Neither do I! This system was not decided by Blizzard, EVERY game in there works in the SAME way, so why are you giving flak to Blizzard because they use a business model that is "The Standard" in that part of the world?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
What it is with this myth of the Asian person that, for some weird reason, plays only one hour a month?? Where are these weird guys? do you have any proof of their existence?
No????
So how can you say there is a difference? Do you know what is the average pay for a Chinese person when compared to someone living in the West?
No????
Neither do I! This system was not decided by Blizzard, EVERY game in there works in the SAME way, so why are you giving flak to Blizzard because they use a business model that is "The Standard" in that part of the world?
I understand that's how things work in some parts of the world. However, counting someone who basically puts a quarter into the game everytime it says "insert coin" as an equal to someone who is willing to agree to a certain level of commitment to that game is just sketchy behaviour. It's irrelevant how much money on average the former makes.
As has been said, break the number up so we can see how many people are actually paying a monthly subscription, and how many pay by the hour. But, why in the world would Blizzard want to do that, eh?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb
Comments
12 million subscribers is not the same as 12 million people logged in at the same time.
I personally believe the numbers are inflated (either way it's still going to have the highest sub figures in the western P2P MMO market), it really doesn't bother me one way or another, nor should it to anyone else. Enjoy the game, play it. Don't enjoy it and avoid it. Simple.
If someone paid to play for a single hour, how on earth is that the same thing as someone buying a full subscription?
10,000-12,000 per server is the industry standard.
i Know alot people with 2 or 3 accounts sometimes more also. But they are paying for them but still its one person with 2+ accounts.
I recall Blizz stating that those who have multiple accounts are so miniscule it doesn't even register statiscally.
But it doesn't matter, Blizz reports paid account numbers regardless who 'pays'.
Gdemami -
Informing people about your thoughts and impressions is not a review, it's a blog.
It isn't the same exact thing, but it is still two people who have paid money for access to the game in the same month. Why should someone be disincluded just because they pay based on a model that is the norm for their geography?
In the west we pay for a set number of game minutes that expire after 30 days. In the east they pay for a set number of game minutes that only expire when they are used up. Both are still subscribers, they just use different subscription models.
I'm curious, are you (or other people) trying to suggest that there is some huge number of players only logging into wow 1 hour a month and that is somehow inflating the subscription numbers? I'm just not seeing what the point of debating about what would amount to almost nothing in terms of subscriber base of these phantom 1 hour players.
I've seen counts from servers being in the area of 2500-3000 players online at the same time. That was several years ago.
Developers in the past have said that in an average day a game will see 20% of its total population logged in.
That would make a typical server support between 12,500 and 15,000 active accounts.
You guys know that Blizzard is public company and can't just lie about its numbers? it's not some joke guys they can get into trouble for making up sub numbers.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
people cant believe that other ones have fun with games which they dont
"i don't like it! no way 12m users! so obvious"
let's say it this way, they sold 3.3 MILLION copies on day one ^^
whoever thinks they do not have subs, should stop trolling imo
uh, and one might concider the fact that asia actually is in a much later time zone (which are about 6 million subs), duno how that calculates into this day one storry :>
@ server max: people dont allways log in at the same time, there are pupils, workers, unemployed, and they all run on different time schedules, eg, something like 2k at nite, 2 times 3k at day (just made up those numbers dont slay me)..
"I'll never grow up, never grow up, never grow up! Not me!"
Something about Denial not being a river in Egypt.
Yes that 3.3 million figure should be a clue. Also 20 % population was a study done when games had all the world's population playing on their servers so it was busy at various times of the day. Nowadays with localized servers that figure may have to be revised. However the sheer numbers of servers in Europe and North America gives you an indication and that is not including the Asian numbers.
They are also a public company who knowing the number of people who hate them would not leave themselves open to such easy prosecution for lying on these figures. What a stupid thing to be caught at lying at and be found out so easily. I am sure much more resourceful people than those on these boards would have considered catching them on these figures. So like they say in Korean "keman eh" stop it.
Cause they fudge sub numbers , its confirmed , 8 million subscribers suddenly when China Left the market for a while
4 million less , (and chinese system is not even subscribers base , but pay per hour)
Is income same as sub numbers ?
No it isn´t , is players same as sub numbers ? no again it isn´t.
Is wow currently the biggest in the WEST , yes it is , but honestly EUROPE is already bigger then N/A subscribers.
They just play into , marketing hype , bigger numbers will always convince people to stay .
12 million people cannot be wrong in playing this game.
Its driven by well oiled political system , that the world loves , You dont want to be the only geek playing 10 hours a day , neglecting your real life , left unemployed striving to be world first , it must have a deeper meaning .
Truth is , you are playing a computer game and waisting time , fine if you can spare it , not fine when you are in the prime of your life .
The whole reason is because Blizzard includes both monthly fees and hourly subs in the number.
In the west people pay their 15 bucks a month like all other MMOs. That is easy to compare fairly if you for a fact know how many players pay monthly fees.
In Asia they pay hourly fees (I heard it is 12 cents).
That makes comparing Wows numbers with both P2P and B2P games unfair.
Unfair with the F2P games because anyone who ever make an account is counted by them.
And unfair against the P2P games as well because a guy from China might log on and play 2-3 hour a month and still count as a full player. People rarely would bother something like that in a P2P game with only monthly fees and Blizzard might only earn 3 dollars a year from a guy like that.
So the whole issue is that Blizzard have 2 very different kind of subscribers as they count as the same. That isn't exactly lying but it makes it impossible to compare the game fairly with other games.
No matter what is Wow still the largest in the west but Blizzard could be clearer with their sub numbers.
Heresy and nonsense. It's just that WoW has more females playing WoW than in other MMOs. If you have a girlfriend or wife, there is a high chance they would experiment with WoW if they never played. LOL
You definitely hit a nail on the head there.
Many people take a very Western-centric view on everything. The attitude in many cases seems to be that the rest of the world should be catering specifically to what us Westerners expect... and screw the other parts of the world. They don't matter.
Take Lineage 2 for example. The game is definitely taking a nose-dive here in the Western market. It's still, however, doing quite well in its primary Eastern market. I believe they have easily somewhere north of 1 million players; maybe more. The Western market has been gravy to them, pretty much.
Regardless, there have been people who insist that Lineage 2 is a failure of a MMO because it's not doing great here in the West; that NCSoft should just take it offline and not make anymore MMOs until they "understand what Western gamers expect and can develop a good MMO". Every time I read a post like that, the only thing I can think is "Get the hell over yourself. Then open your eyes and realize there's a whole big world out there, and us "Westerners" aren't the center of it..
And that's just for L2. The same display of ignorance plays out with just about any Eastern developed MMO that isn't designed to cater specifically to so-called "Western Gamers".
The point being missed is: They don't have to understand the Western playerbase because the Western playerbase isn't their core market for that particular game.
Their core playerbase is in the East. Thus, the game is designed more for that style of gameplay.
Unfortunately, many people refuse to see past their own nose, much less realize the rest of the world doesn't revolve around Western culture, nor do they consider it "superior" to their own.
Bringing it back to this thread... I see it being a very likely reason why people try to dismiss the Eastern market numbers. Because, as illustrated above, for some... if it's not "The Western Market", it may as well not exist.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Not that your statement makes much sense, but do you have some sort of proof that confirms blizzard fudges numbers as you claim? Where is your confirmation?
Honestly from what you just posted it sounds like you are confirming that blizzard has exactly how many subscribers as they claim.
How many times someone has to remind people like you that Blizzard is a public company and can not fudge numbers without getting into big trouble with investors and share holders? how hard it is to understand something so simple? they will be eaten alive if they try to fool anyone.
Bite Me
I'm curious how this is a contest of fairness. Blizzard is making the statement that in total they have 12 million people paying for access to WoW in any given 30 day period. It isn't a statement about how they compare to other games.
I'm sure that if other companies game actually held enough interest in the asian market they would include their subscriber numbers in their totals too. Much like most asian games don't do well in the west, most western games have closed down or done so poorly they have little to no impact on totals. I would guess any mmo company would kill to only have the amount of success wow has had in the asian market. Even at the low revenue per player I would bet wow-asia out produces most other mmos on the market.
Fair or not that is the reality.
And are you a shareholder ? Do you even get financiel report ?
Do you even understand what crisis did ?
Or why this year the market speculation is going to be a bit boring ?
Eaten ALIVE ? after wikileaks about federal reserves ?
LoL you still live in the old world , while most of us have moved on to accept stuff as it is .
Its rehersing commercial crap like this that makes me doubt , it doesn´t matter as long people dont want to know.
The TOP is right , people are ignorant and thus need those lies in place .
You know you dare even to state that , with last 3 years happening on the market , shows me how much credit these post are.
Why don't you have a look at their financial report yourself? they publish it every year. So please stop calling other ignorant when you don't even understand the law and how they can get in big trouble. Such hate for WOW that you even throw logic out of the window.
Who could have thought that WOW could bring super power like USA to its knees?
Originally posted by Arcken
To put it in a nutshell, our society is about to hit the fan, grades are dropping, obesity is going up,childhood the USA is going to lose its super power status before too long, but hey, as long as we have a cheap method to babysit our kids, all will be well no?
Im picking on WoW btw because its the beast that made all of this possible
Let me see..umm whom should i trust. A random WOW hater on the forums with nothing to back up his claims or a publicly listed big company with huge responsibilty on its shoulders towards its share holders and their need to be transparent.
Not a difficult choice now is it.
Bite Me
You mean players don't want to debate your conspiracy theories? how about we debate something where you have actually something to back up what you are saying and not just your own theories (you ,know the one you keep pulling out of your a**)? just wear your tin foil hat and go sit in the corner unless you got something to prove that Blizzard is fudging up numbers and lying to its investors every year.
Bite Me
3.3m copies of Cata sold the very first day. That's more than 1/4th of the questioned sub numbers. So yes, it's absolutely reasonable that WoW does have 12m people.
drake_hound just cut it bro, you are way off.
I totally agree with you, we are all humans.
But the difference here is between people who pay 15 bucks a month and 12 cents an hour. Is it fair to count someone who pays for one or a few hours as the same who pays for a full month?
Of course some are paying for loads of hours but still should people who pay monthly and people who pay by the hour be counted in different ways. It is a lot easier to get people to pay a few cents to play a little at time than for them to put out 15 bucks a month, and it is a huge difference in income for the company.
Saying that someone doesn't count because he is from a different part of the world than you is racism, we want nothing of that in this forum, just check the FAQ.
Saying that people who pay for playing one measly hour ala 12 cents counts as much as someone who pays for an entire month is very different indeed.
And there have been some people suggesting that Blizzard count people who didn't buy any gametime every month, if that is true Wows number indeed is "fudgy" but hopefully do they count fairly.
Still, Blizzard should give a number for monthly fees and another one for hourly, anything else is unfair when you compare numbers.
What it is with this myth of the Asian person that, for some weird reason, plays only one hour a month?? Where are these weird guys? do you have any proof of their existence?
No????
So how can you say there is a difference? Do you know what is the average pay for a Chinese person when compared to someone living in the West?
No????
Neither do I! This system was not decided by Blizzard, EVERY game in there works in the SAME way, so why are you giving flak to Blizzard because they use a business model that is "The Standard" in that part of the world?
"If you give a man a fish, you feed him for a day, if you teach him how to fish, you feed him for a lifetime"
I understand that's how things work in some parts of the world. However, counting someone who basically puts a quarter into the game everytime it says "insert coin" as an equal to someone who is willing to agree to a certain level of commitment to that game is just sketchy behaviour. It's irrelevant how much money on average the former makes.
As has been said, break the number up so we can see how many people are actually paying a monthly subscription, and how many pay by the hour. But, why in the world would Blizzard want to do that, eh?
"Mr. Rothstein, your people never will understand... the way it works out here. You're all just our guests. But you act like you're at home. Let me tell you something, partner. You ain't home. But that's where we're gonna send you if it harelips the governor." - Pat Webb