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Why no console mmorpgs?
KarmaCry7
Member Posts: 144
At this point I would like to see a great or even decent xbox live mmorpg. AoC was supposed to release console versions but they never did. This is a market that is hungry for convenient online interaction and Final Fantasy and Phantasy Star only gave a very small effort in motivating the market to become an active part of their community growth.
I look at some PC games as being a waste of time and effort. Having to download strange patches, graphics that look out of wack because you don't meet the requirements as advertised etc. Payment transactions for monthly fee payments can be a pain. It just seems that the console generation of mmos can become a lot larger, more stable, reliable and long lasting. I just want to see more X-Box mmos to be considered by devs.
I'll go as far as to say every sorry and failing PC mmorpg would be considered by me if they were available for download on live.
Games I would sub on X Box Live
1. Star Wars Galaxies
2. War Hammer
3. City of Heroes
4. Age of Conan
5. Everquest 2
If these games were there, I'll be building my network on live and would actually care that these games still exist.
I have the right to like what I want!
Comments
I just get the feeling that more and more players are returning to their consoles and the mmorpg market is ignoring a massive network of curious gamers who prefer more stable, relaible, convinient game interation.
1. My game comes in a box or I can download content that I know is exclusive to my gaming network (console). This makes my purchase feel more legit.
2. My system works the way every one elses system works so I never expect any big difference in graphics between consoles.
3. The network is built for console gaming. Makes it so easy for communities to bond and trust in the stability of their network.
4. Updates seem more reliable, stable and proffessional.
I have the right to like what I want!
You start your game, it show's you a percentage of how much you patched, and you start your game. Where's the buzz?
Anyway the fact is that a MMORPG requires constant patches, and surely, making it playable on a controller! Since it uses a server with memory/bandwith/CPU... the gameplay would be as slow paced than the everyday normal MMORPG, on a controller ...
Meet the requirements as advertised?
Most games require a E6700 And a 9800GT, what's to meet?
SKYeXile
TRF - GM - GW2, PS2, WAR, AION, Rift, WoW, WOT....etc...
Future Crew - High Council. Planetside 1 & 2.
Collector's editions are scams.
Yah, those xbox are so stable you need to buy a new one each month after they fried.Collector's editions are scams.
You can't just port a game, it would be pretty bad and I doubt most X-box users would like it. To make a good console MMO you need to make a console MMO from the start. We already seen tries to make games for both with rather bad results, FF XI excluded.
There are some companies making MMOs exclusively for X-box even if nothing is released yet. Most promising with most experienced devs is Zombie labs lead by Jeff Strain (Diablo, Warcraft 3, Wow, GW 1 & 2).
There will be rather popular console MMOs, 10 years ago few people believed in console FPS games. But they will need to find the right mechanics for a game like that. That will happen but it might take a while.
Your list however have only smaller games and porting them would most likely not lead to much, AoC were actually made to be both for PC and X-box but the console version was canned.
EQ Next will most likely release on PS3 as well as PC, but I can promise you that no SOE will be ported to X.box ever. SOE is however spending the time with making the next EQ game multi platform and I doubt they would spend all the job on the current game that is 6 years old.
There are console MMOs. Playstation 3 has Final Fantasy XI, Massive Action Game, and soon to be DC Universe Online (already in beta), Final Fantasy XIV, the Undead Labs zombie MMO, Turbine's console MMO, and a few other titles not coming to mind right away.
As for the Xbox360, you have Final Fantasy XI and that's pretty much all, but if you want an idea as to why there are no MMOs coming to the 360, you should ask Microsoft. There have been numerous reports of Microsoft blocking MMO initiatives in the past. Funcom noted Microsoft's resistance as the reason Age of Conan hasn't come out on the 360, and Cryptic has done the same noting that Champions Online and Star Trek Online were announced to be virtually finished on the 360 before they were canned. Square Enix has stated that Final Fantasy XIV on the 360 is a possibility, but that Microsoft is the main issue blocking any progress, and has even gone as far as saying that Final Fantasy XI is only on Xbox Live because it was released in Live's infancy, and Microsoft didn't have the kind of strict guidelines that they have now.
http://everquestonlineadventures.station.sony.com/
Phantasy Star Universe is on xbox live, and has been out for 4 years.
why no console MMORPG's? hmm could it be because new consoles come out every year or couple of years and the old ones end up in the trash or on car boots after a few years. there is no longevity (financially speaking for MMO developers) for consoles to get MMOs like the ones on PCs..
Actually, hardware advancements have slowed way down over the years and console makers are actually talking about console lifespans of over 10 years. The original Gameboy lasted eleven years before nintendo made a drastic hardware change and the PS lasted eight. Keep in mind that the only two new consoles that are on the horizon are the Nintendo 3DS and the PSP2. You could probably raise that number to three if you included the PSP phone.... maybe...
Set top consoles aren't talking about a new generation yet and we should have heard about the development of a PS4, WII Plus, or XBox 720 a couple of years ago now. The tradition five year lifespan for consoles is officially dead.
Having said that, The two main reasons why MMOs are not represented on consoles are:
1) Subscriptions - console gamers are used to paying once for a product and playing for as long as the want. This may no be as much of an issue with item mall type games since console gamers have become accustomed to paying for DLC and item mall stuff is basically the same thing.
2) MMO design - Console gamers generally play a large number of games. MMOs are designed to suck away all of your free time leaving you for no time to spend on any other games. MMOs require a commitment that the large majority of console gamers don't want to mess with. Sure, Borderlands seems like the perfect framework for a console MMO, but the reason it worked on consoles is because it ended. Even if you spent hundreds of hours playing it, there was a point where you could stop playing and move on to other things. MMOs are not designed this way and it clashes with mentality of the majority of gamers. That's right. Gamers. Console or PC, most gamers don't want to be tied to one game forever. Until MMOs get over the mentality that "there can be only one," then most gamers are going to give these games a pass.
Keep in mind, that as (seeming) large as the player populations of MMOs are, they are nothing in comparison to the number of people playing other kinds of games. MMO gamers are a minority. And that minority is still to small to even be considered feesable on platforms that measure success in the millions of copies sold. So far, no console MMO has ever gained an audience of more than a couple hundred thousand. And that isn't enough for most publishers to back the licensing fees and developement costs that are associated with consoles.
i see people saying the names of mmo's on consoles..... but are these's proper mmo's.... or are they just poo ones... and nothing like realy online mmorpgs u get on the pc (ie.lineage2, wow ect.)
Currently Playing:
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I wouldn't say that when a MMORPG player leaves an MMORPG, they "go back to their consoles." Quite a bit of MMORPG players I'm willing to say are normally PC gamers to begin with. So when their MMORPG fix is done and they leave the genre (however long they may be), there's still other PC gaming genres that they can go back to. There's many gamers out there that have a console and a PC for both gaming styles.
I quit MMORPGs because the way I see them now and the near future, they're utterly worthless. But I haven't left PC gaming even though I do have a PS3. I still do FPS on the PC (BF2, BF2142, ARMA II, MW1 and not the later travesties). I still do RPGs (Fallout 3, New Vegas). I still do strategy (Sins of a Solar Empire, Galactic Civilizations 2, Civ 4 & 5).
Now, as for your points:
1. My game comes in a box or I can download content that I know is exclusive to my gaming network (console). This makes my purchase feel more legit.
Buying a game in a box is more legit than going online somewhere, purchasing a game, and downloading it for play instead of trudging to a store? I'm a "box & CD" guy myself, but that doesn't mean buy + download isn't any less viable for "legit" play.
Also, especially when you see a Console MMORPG when it does hit multiple console platforms, trust me on this: Your "exclusive platform content" will not be exclusive. Not for long. It **will** get whored out for DLC, Item Shops, Micro Transactions... eventually. If companies see a chance to sheist you and make money off a bunch of other people, they will screw you. That is a guarantee. That is human nature.
2. My system works the way every one elses system works so I never expect any big difference in graphics between consoles.
That stability and uniform performance I'm sure many like. But there are some, like myself, that prefer being able to have a gaming system that outpaces the common specs. If you have the means, resources, etc., we want that freedom. You'll come across technical issues here and there. Yes. But that's the price you sometimes pay for a rig that provides outstanding visual and audio experiences that you can't get with a locked down system.
3. The network is built for console gaming. Makes it so easy for communities to bond and trust in the stability of their network.
Multiplayer gaming is built for the internet, period. PC users have been doing that since the mid-90s. There is no problem whatsoever for a game's community to get together.
In-game chats. Out-of-game Chat sessions. Forums (official or not). Email. Etc.
If there's a network problem in your region, that's out of the game company and your platform's control. If the game servers are having issues, there's not a d*mn thing you, your friends, and your gaming system can do. If there's connection and stability issues, they will be there time to time and out of your control. Sometimes when the MMORPG goes "live" for the masses to play, there will be problems noticed only then because the game server(s) finally experience a full load of players. If you've played MMORPGs at all and never experienced this, then you haven't played enough MMORPGs.
4. Updates seem more reliable, stable and proffessional.
I see at this point you haven't done much PC gaming if you think consoles are more reliable in updating their games. Some companies are good at it. Some aren't. Doesn't matter if you are a console or PC gamer.
For Official Patches / Fixes that is.
At least if there's a company that no longer supports a game on a PC platform, you'll sometimes find fan-made patches that do fix problems (Unofficial / Fan-made Patches).
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)
Consoles are the following idea:
- Strip a real computer of the freedom to do whatever you want to do with it, and bind the customer to the corresponding company
- Make the hardware a bit cheaper, in fact so cheap the company will make a LOSS with every sale
- Make the games a bit more expensive to overcompensate for the money you safed for paying less for the console
So why exactly would a console gamer want to have a MMO ? After all, you have to be a bit slow in the head in the first place to buy a console. Its definitely not worth it.
In fact, on average being more shallow and more trivial is pretty much the crucual difference of console games vs personal computer games.
Even the controls are much less powerful.
Well one of the reasons could be that while there are alot of consoles the number of them actually connected to the internet isn't that much over 50% at the momment. Most of those are connected for multi-player FPS games and while I am sure there are many who play both FPS's and roleplaying games on them I am willing to bet these are in the minority rather than the majority (for basic proof look at console copies sold for Dragon Age compared to say Call Of Duty whatever it's up to) so the market doesn't really appear to be there. Now while there are some MMO type games slated for the consoles most seem to be more the FPS/action oriented MMO-lites rather than full on MMO's in the traditional sence Final Fantasy being the notable exception though XIV is yet to make it onto a console and XI isn't current gen.
As for the current generation of consoles being long term deals what you have to remember this is the first of the console generations to last more than 5 years while MMO's have been a kind of main stream activity and MMO's tend to take 3 years to make as a rush job which don't tend to do very well past the second month.
The last point that I don't think anyone has brought up yet is money. As in how will the money be split? X-box live is currently a subscription service do the MMO publishers/devs take a chunk of the current subscription or do they add an additional charge if they add an additional charge who owns the servers they run on the publisher/dev house or the console maker. Again I'm not exactly sure how the console networks work but from what I can make out for X-box the publishers/devs pay Microsoft to host their game on servers and Microsoft takes the subscription from the live service and pays the publishers/devs royalties back based on how many users use those game servers. I'm also sure both Microsoft and Sony take a chunk out for bought downloadable content as well so that makes micro-tranaction based games more risky as well.
Not to mention if the publishers/devs charge a sub it would have to be quite low to make it competitive with the PC MMO. A PC user just has to pay for the internet connection and then the sub a console with a publisher/developer sub has to pay for the internet connection plus the console network subscription plus the subscription to the game. Besides which the way the console are setup to funnel money to the console maker I highly doubt they would let someone charge extra monthly fees without taking a cut for themselves making the margins for a console MMO even narrower.
Those are pretty much the business reasons I see that hold back console MMO's and they appear pretty steep hurdles to overcome because lets face it these things arn't made solely for the love of making an MMO they are made to make people money love comes a distant second.
The lesser of two evils is still evil.
There is nothing more dangerous than a true believer.
People thought online fps won't make it anywhere on consoles... Now they are going bigger then the sorry excuse of what's left on the pc side of things.
Mmo's will make it to the console. I don't think it will be very successful this gen but perhaps with the next generation of consoles. Personaly I think it's great.
Btw. making conclusions regarding the iq of a person based on platform choice makes you look dumb. Many former pc players made the shift this gen, besides it's not like the majority of the pc gamers (mmo players especially) have much of a clue about their pc either way.
I play fps exclusively on " the sorry excuse of whats left on the pc side of things". For free. I don't have to pay any extra fees to play multiplayer online. Its always baffled me why people are willing to pay extra to play console games online when, for the most part, you can play them for free on a pc. Besides...mouse/keyboard is far superior to a controller. Its one of the main reasons we haven't seen any cross platform fps titles (well, I think maybe Shadowrun tried it but I'm not sure). PC gamers, even average ones like myself, would destroy console gamers that use controllers if everything was the left the same.
As for mmo's, I think they attract a different type of gamer than the ones who mostly play consoles. The thought of having to pay a monthly fee for a single game on top of their Xbox Live fees is not something many of them would do. As well, the aging tech of the current gen consoles would place some severe limitations and what the game could do. Consoles games can look great when it is primarily a single player game with a multiplayer component, but probably don't have the horsepower to run modern mmo's the same way a decent pc can. Too many comprimises would have to be made to make it playable on a console (consolitis I think is the unofficial term for it). The 360 is over 5 years old now, and the PS3 is geting close to that, and they both began their development around 2000. Think of the pc tech available at that time (in 2000) and what we use today. Consoles are stagnant whereas pc's can be upgraded and updated as much as your motherboard can allow.
And before anyone says I don't know what I'm talking about when it comes to consoles, I own all three. I hardly ever use my 360 excpet to play some old sports games that I picked up in the bargain bin for $5. The PS3 mostly gets used to watch Blu Ray movies and for a few games like Heavy Rain, Demon's Soul and Red Dead Redemption, and I haven't touched my Wii (hehehe
) in the 2 1/2 years since I moved to my current home. I just enjoy playing games on the pc infinately more than on a console.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
FPS have become a joke thanks to consoles.
Quake3 and UT / UT 2k4, especially CTF, were on a level that is miles ahead of what you see on Xbox, Halo, CoD, or whatever inferior FPS consoles have to offer.
Why? Because console controls are far inferior.
Microsoft had the cross-platform Xbox LIVE+ PC project to incorporate PC players with Xbox player with their unified gaming project. They didn't go through with it. Why? Because PC players were beating the crap out of console players in the test phase.
Did you know Halo and CoD on console both have an autoaim in the game that makes people shoot more accurately even though most don't know it's doing it?
Collector's editions are scams.
I seem to recall the staff of PC Gamer magazine going head to head with their counterparts at an XBox 360 mag (same company owned both of them) when this was first being tested and the PC Gamer staff consistantly spanked the 360 staff. The PC Gamer staff used the mouse/keyboard while the 360 staff used a controller. The uneven results even suprised the PC Gamer's.
Is a man not entitled to the herp of his derp?
Remember, I live in a world where juggalos and yugioh players are real things.
With SOE making Planetside Next, i see that as a perfect platform to put into a console. Sure its not your true MMO, but it will help to nail down alot of the issues a console MMO will need to overcome. Such as complicated control schemes, a persistent world and the need to get large numbers of players on at the same time. Being a FPS oriented game will draw in many who see traditional MMO's as geekfests or PC only titles and build there faith in the ability to have an online, persistent world that they can jion clans/guilds in, participate in large scale events and such. It will also act as a trial run for how a service like Xbox live can be used to stream patches, content updates.
I really don't see xbox live being a good canidate for making a console mmo successful, gold sub + game sub, also the monthly internet bill too lol, would turn a lot of people off. Just more costly than it needs to be, espcially just for one game (not to mention the long hours mmo's cause could rrod your xbox).
having mmorpg on a console sounds horrible but i guess i can go with that as long as i can play the game with keyboard and mouse and i dont have to talk to consoletards .. no wait, thats impossible...
PS2 ran ffxi beautifully with no problems for over half a decade, on a ps2 what was bought upon release.
Xbox 360, fried two of them in two years... I swear Bil Gates owes me like a $1000 for all the bullshit I've bought from microsoft starting with windows 95. If I didn't have a rig I wouldn't mind a ps3 for ffxiv, at least those consoles don't fry.
So many controller UI elitists in this thread lol...
Another thing that PC FPS have an advantage of on top of it all are Mods. I luv 'em.
The ability for fans to generate add-ons to your old, favorite warhorse FPS and bring that much more new enjoyment and experience to that game. Not to mention Total Conversion mods. Example: Total Conversions that change BF2142 or Modern Warfare 1 into a Star Wars FPS. Offerings far superior than any of the FPS cr*p Lucasarts has brought out in the last 7 or so years.
Mods that can bring new life to your trusty FPS. For free! Because fans are more into providing enjoyment for fellow fans than some companies out there. They're just there to offer the most minimal offerings possible and charging what they can out of you.
We take care of our own in the PC crowd.
It's not being elitist if it's the truth... right?
Seriously, controls and UI is a big issue for some of us. For me, it comes down to cross-platform games. I'm talking about the all-to-common lazy ports to the PC where the developers absolutely insist on implementing a UI that's fine for the limited hand-controller but make absolutely no sense whatsoever on a traditional PC's Keyboard + Mouse. Choices that make playing the game hell on a PC. Hell, even Console style Save Points can be aggravating.
The worst, most awful UI that I've read about in recent years for a PC version (was supposed to be cross-platform) of a game is FF XIV. Read enough reviews of it and you'll see a common thread: The atrociously bad UI was designed for the PS3 and not the PC in mind... at all. Nevermind that the PC version came out *first* and now the PS3 version is on hold. But Square Enix saw fit not to even try making a UI decent enough for the PC, despite having years of experience and feedback from FF XI.
"I have only two out of my company and 20 out of some other company. We need support, but it is almost suicide to try to get it here as we are swept by machine gun fire and a constant barrage is on us. I have no one on my left and only a few on my right. I will hold." (First Lieutenant Clifton B. Cates, US Marine Corps, Soissons, 19 July 1918)