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The End for MMOs
Lobotomist
Member EpicPosts: 5,981
When I entered Rift Beta , my expectations were high. Based on previews I expected to find deep innovative game.
What I did find was more of the same: Two factions , theme park quest areas , very familiar skill system (even with multiclassing) , npc's , crafting , rewards .... all same
Except from rifts and invasions (which are awesome) Rift is your standard MMO
So where is the problem ?
Compared with elephant in the room "WOW" i could say that Rift is better.
It improves lot of things and adds awesome dynamic events that dynamically change the map - and adds perhaps meaningful PVP.
The graphic is better , story is great , gameplay is just as good.
And lasy but not least : Trion really listens to players feedback.
Yet. When NDA dropped - People are screaming "Bloody murder"
Why?
Because , ladies and gentleman : Rift is MMO , and we are sick and tired of MMOs
We dont want more WOW , we dont want no more EVE either (Perpetum), we dont want Ultima Online (Mortal)
No mater how good or better - its a stinky MMO! It has quests , crafting , npc's ( or opposite (like perpetum, mortal))
People seem to be sick and tired of this.
So either you serve something completely new - or your great but old fashioned game is forfeit.
Problem is : MMO games take long time to produce. 3-4 years. There is no way to know what will be "new" in 3-4 years.
When Rift production started. Its features probably sounded like "The new Shit" now its just "Deja-Vu"
So let me wrap this up.
Rift is a MMO , a good one. But still a MMO.
If you hate it. You are probably burned on genre as a whole (I know i am)
( Clarification (because people dont understand my sarcasm) - I actually think the game is very good. I would easily rate it above WOW, LOTRO or AOC. And people only criticise it because its not much different than other MMOs on the market.)
Comments
Beta'd an mmo, dissapointed to find an mmo. Ordinarily with a thread of this kind the standard answer would be 'you just burned out' as you stated however in this case I'm going to go with 'what did you expect to find? you...' then some stuff that gets me another ban
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Exactly
I admit , i also expected more. But found a MMO.
It failed to be as good as my wild expectations - therefore its no good
( Just to clear misunderstanding. - I am being sarcastic - and its comment on people bashing this game , when in fact it is them who are burned on whole genre and are expecting something that is simply not there , while in same time criticizing perfectly good game for no reason at all )
I wouldn't really say they are burnt out, unless they have a problem with the core concept (like questing or grinding mobs) but if the general world design or the lore is uninteresting to you, or if the quests themselves are the same thing over and over again, then i would call that a problem with how the game was made not burnt out on the genre itself.
In some games i can quest all day long and enjoy it, the areas are unique and i "feel" like i'm doing something different even if i'm not really. While in other games its just the same thing over and over again.
Then it's also if you get the impression when you look at the game if you like that sorta thing or not. Some games are sandbox, some are theme park, some rely mostly on PvE content while others rely mostly on PvP.
I don't think you'll ever find the perfect MMO. Why? because frankly theres always going to be one or two things about it your not going to like. What it comes down to is if the game you are currently playing is indeed fun for you. If it is, then the game is worth your time. If it's not, then move on.
People who are burnt out on the genre will find the very core of the game wrong. I went a theme park game without quests, or this game should have PvP (when it's a PvE game) If you go into every game and can't play it for more then a couple of hours regardless of the game, then i feel your burnt out.
I'll use myself as an example. I'm looking at most of the MMOs on the market and getting bored because i just click through most of the quests. Guards give lame excuses why they can't do a job. crafting seems more like a chore then something i'd like to do, and don't even get me started on grinding levels.
These WOULD be signs that i'm getting burnt from the genre (and it's probably partially true) however i'm willing to stick it out for another 6 or so months until ToR comes out, why? Because they are emphasizing on story, making crafting (at least for me) interesting, and removing the grind.
I guess it's down to people getting more frustrated that they can't find the game they want, more so then getting burnt out.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
I'm a little confused myself, as the second poster said you entered an MMO beta to test/play an MMO, why is there now a problem that you found yourself playing inside an MMO?
I can understand if your looking for something to break out of the conventional MMO mould and offer something different, they have in the form of Rifts, but I think your really going to be hard pushed to find an MMO that is radically different, and if you do it will probably be pushed into another of the available genre's already out there.
I could see from the start that Rifts wasn't going to offer me as a player anything vastly different than the current crop of MMO's, it's an IP that looks interesting on paper but graphically wise I'm not overly impressed.
However with that said I will give the game a try once it goes live, thats if I can find the time with so many MMO's seemingly going gold shortly.
Ya agree the only similarity between WOW and this is its a MMORPG. Wait there is a ton of MMORPGs before and after WOW. People calling every MMORPG a WOW clone needs find a different genre to play or stick with WOW if you like it so much.
I will get this just to kill time until SWTOR comes out if some my friends do and looks like they are. If not next year is looking like one hell of a year for single player games too. We shall see as launch for this gets closer.
So the fault lies within you, because your expectations were too high? Or was it the game itself.
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
There is still room for MMO. Just not for MMO that just copy WAR and WoW.
The WoW MMO bubble is going to burst, jobs and money will be lost, bad companies will need to go.
I'm sorry to say, but Rift is part of this, it needs to go.
Collector's editions are scams.
I think the OP makes a really good point.
People are expecting too much of a revolutionary new gaming experience - one that would probably make such a game difficult to class as an MMO. Things develop over time and you rarely get huge leaps in the evolutionary processs unless they're facilitate by external factors.
Best analogy I can come up with is cars.
Imagine you bought a nice new shiny Mercedes in 1990 and you loved it because it was your first luxury car. Roll on to 2010 and you buy another Mercedes to replace the 20 year old car you've cherished but is now a bit too old. If you were as cynical about cars as many gamers are about MMOs you could complain that the new car you've bought has the same leather interior, a/c, stereo, 4 wheels, a combustion engine and so on. What's the difference? All that wait for an almost identical car with just minor improvements like it's a stereo plays MP3s and slightly better acceleration!
I think this is how new MMOs are looked at by many of the gamers that frequent these forums. Not saying they're totally wrong but it's all about expectations. When RIFT was announced - or any new MMO for that matter - I hope it'll be a game that represents an incremental improvement to WoW, the benchmark for the genre. Simple as that. I don't need to go from cart horse to supersonic jet in one move and to expect this to happen is highly unrealistic.
Aryas
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~
I don't think you can stray from the familiar path too much and be successful. Certain things are taken for granted these days. For example, a working UI or certain game mechanisms like trading between players.
Maybe I'm mistaken though. Maybe even those can't be taken for granted. It took WoW six years to develop a UI that is finally independent of outside addons. If they took so long, some smaller developers will either need more time to creat a UI that is good or copy an existing system that works.
The never ending circle of copying existing things that work to cut down time and cost creates perhaps this deja vu feeling on all new games that come out on the market.
I think you miss the mark by about 1000 miles.
The combat is terrible - whack a mole - wait to push buttons
- sorry Vanguard does combat much much better.
Quests - you basically are hand held from one area to another - there is no sense of adventure or exploring.
EQ (an old old game) did a much much better job.
I could go on. But I won't.
It's an mmo, with pretty graphics.
It's not what it was hyped to be - which was next gen.
Not even close.
Are people, especially old timers on this site, actually hyped about any game that is still unreleased?
The safe approach is to expect the worse so as to be (hopefully) pleasantly surprised.
I dont know what is the meaning of this post ... either OP hates WOW or he beta tested a game he knew he wouldnt like ... both are a waste of time.
Ahhhhh, he was being sar-car-stick. That was very well hidden to say the least.
Anyhow I think people put too much weight into the posts from this site. An extremely high percentage of first posts experiences of newly or soon to be released games are marketing. These people have A LOT invested both in and against all new releases.
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
"A MMO"......
It's "AN MMO"....the "M" is pernnounded "ehm". So it starts with an "E"
"AN MMO"!!!
It's what?
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The person who is certain, and who claims divine warrant for his certainty, belongs now to the infancy of our species.
Even the graphics are quite mediocre. There are some nicer areas though, but nothing special.
The game uses an outdated DX9 engine with very bad animations and models.
Vindictus, F2P, blows this game out of the water graphics wise. So does Aion, AoC, Lotro etc.
Oh well, wtb some DX11 games pretty please, before my video card is outdated again!
Collector's editions are scams.
pronounced maybe?
Velika: City of Wheels: Among the mortal races, the humans were the only one that never built cities or great empires; a curse laid upon them by their creator, Gidd, forced them to wander as nomads for twenty centuries...
I dunno... I think its just the fact that there have been so many games released since WoW that try to copy WoW's formula for success with just a few minor changes. Rift is just the next game in this line.
I mean... thinking back. I don't think anyone considered DAoC a EQ clone. Or Lineage a UO clone, or CoH an AC2 clone. But for some reason shortly after it was publically known that WoW had millions of subscribers that apparently became the only way to develope MMO games.
Hell, SoE ruined a perfectly good game to try to be more like WoW, Turbine completely redesigned their Lord of the Rings game to be more like WoW, every mainstream MMO to be released in the last 3-4 years has been a solo-only, quest grind, gear driven copy of the ideas that AC2 pioneered that WoW copied with much greater success.
As to the person who made the comment that Mortal Online (or DF) are in the same vein as UO have got to be joking. I guarantee you that if an exact copy of UO was released today with modern graphics, but everything else exactly the same as it was during the T2A days that myself and thousands of others would play it in a heart beat. MO and DF are not even close to the calibre of game that UO was.
Someone used a car analogy to try and point out how weird it is that we accept small changes in other products, but not MMO games. But really, there are a ton of products that we do this with.
Take MP3 players for example. The iPod is without a doubt the most popular MP3 player ever. If you go to Best Buy you will see a bunch of iPod copies that no one buys, a year ago there were twice as many as today. The fact is, consumers already have the best iPod.. the iPod... no one's going to buy one of the knock-offs when they can get the original and most popular one. The same can be said of WoW and all of the clones it has spawned since it was released.
/rant off
"There is as yet insufficient data for a meaningful answer."
That Rift and X number of Fantasy MMO's are very similar is no surprise really, its not so much that nothing more can be done in that area, barring storylines etc and superficial naming details, its already been done, to greater or lesser degrees of success, it devolves in the end down to personal preferences, if you find that these are, no good etc, then its just that you no longer find enjoyment in MMO's at least fantasy ones, perhaps the only real solution is to take a break from them, do something else, and perhaps in time you might find them entertaining again, if not.. well.. people change over the years and it might just be that Fantasy MMO's are no longer your thing. That im afraid is life.. or to put it another way, after a lifetime of 'chocolate cake' you might find that you arent really that fond of chocolate any more..
...... car analogy......
here's a more accurate one than the previous one.
these "new models" are really virtually identical to the 1999 model. the physical shape of the body, and the headlights and taillights are all the same. the motor is the same. all the mechanical parts are the same. the interior is virtually the same. the stereo system is the same. the horsepower is the same, etc. etc
the old 1999 model you had was blue.
THIS one is red!
and its got a better cupholder!
its next gen!
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Corpus Callosum
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lmao
Collector's editions are scams.
MMORPG has 1.3 million subscribers, 66% of those who visit the site and voted on the genre poll want to see more sci-fi.....Fantasy is getting old for me and Ive quit playing...It only took me a year to get tired of WOW and I've never gone back...I have a good feeling about Bioware and LucasArts and believe we are in for a treat with SWTOR.....*crossfingers Now, until then, how is RIFT? I've grown tired of LOTRO (which took me 2 years to do).
We where promised next gen, though we only get the next step (Multi-classes, good features and done better then before and the dynamic PQ's with the invasion system seen in TR, but done better) and even some people would argue with that. Also thinking an MMORPG has to be like the current MMORPG's is incorrect. There could be improvements here and there, but I believe the problem with most people including myself is that we dream to much. Our minds generate these epics games when we hear features that we are bound to be disapointed. Like little kids who can make the most epic adventures from a stick.
I really expected a WTF moment when I saw my first rift. I sort of had that. Saw my first rift and was like "Awsome a rift" expeciting it to be something rare'ish. Then I looked to my right a few decree's and spotted my second one. The problem also with Rift is that we only saw and where confined to the first region. Not saying "Wait till end-game and then it get fun", but I do believe rifts will be more fun if there are less people, when they really become a threat (Later in the last event when less folks where online, invasion really got off and it was nice to see)
Rift is a really casual friendly game. You could just do quest and once in a while assist with clearing invasions when there in your way or you could join a party and take down rifts. One harder then the other, but none really to hard and you could just jump in an do them when you only have a short time. I think I will play it on and off, depending on the PvP, till atleast the release of GW2. With both games I was/am not expecting the genre to suddenly evolve extremely, but I at least expected a new and more dynamic ways of quest being handed to me.
I do not believe people simply want a different genre, but no more standard MMORPG's. A game does not change simply because wolf look like robotic wolfs. Hell you could change most of the WoW skins with StarCraft skins and have a futuristic game, with plays the same.
I think the MMO genre will evolve toward more sci-fi game, but they will be FPS/3rd person or strategy games (Like Trions other product). The reason MMORPG's are so dominent is because making an schooter style of game was/is not possible with the current internet, but I think this will soon not be a trouble anymore. Internet really evolved fast and with Fiber becoming more popular it might be possible.
These posts amuse me for the very reason the OP highlights - people come into a game in a genre and crucify it for the similarities it bears to the genre.
Look at most fantasy novels - they are filled with cliches of the genre. Yet it is the subtleties of approach and presentation that make the reading experience so enjoyable.
People call Rift the child between WOW and WAR - that sounds quite good to me given that each game has some huge positives (one more than the other, admittedly). Even if it took the sum of those parts and added only 5% innovation (the soul system?), that opens up a whole new world and gaming experience, with history, NPCs, and more to experience anew (even if they probably have the same cliches).
Haha, yes I know what you mean.
In all fairness I think most new games offer more than just 'a better cupholder' but the overhyping is often just that - OVERhype.
A lot of these games are pumped-up to appear more than what they really are but I think a lot of this takes place in the mind's eye of the gamers. There is general feeling on these forums that gamers are totally desperate for decent MMO fix. It's far easier for someone to conjour up an image of their ideal game in their head - and constantly update it - than it is to actually develop one. I think there is a gulf of difference between what gamers think is achievable and what developers - for whatever reason - can actually deliver.
Using my now torn and tattered car analogy:
It's a bit like VW announcing a new Golf, me expecting it to be able to fly and justifying that expectation by saying "Well, aeroplanes can do it and they've been around for years".
Aryas
Playing: Ableton Live 8
~ ragequitcancelsubdeletegamesmashcomputerkillself ~