If you want pure intelligence in gameplay I'd suggest you play PvP my friend. AI can be made to do many things, however, in the end it will always be predictable.
LOL...Pvp is real intelligence?
Have you looked around yourself lately? The world is littered with ignorance, stupidity, and apathy. Most human beings have no common sense nor do they have any idea what logic is.
*note* it is not my intention to sound condescending, all I ask is you consider my statement and utilize your own observations to put a rational value on it. Thanks
I just lol with this statement! xD I have to agree with you that most human beeings don't think twice about a lot of things, and in PVP we can see some people that don't know what they are doing.
BUT we see a lot of smart players doing really smart things. I remmember in Guild Wars 1 and in other 2 games where PVP with a group well organized and some experience could mean the victory, specially in a battlefield with a large number of players where a unique and well thought strategy of only one group can lead to victory. I have experienced some of that too.
I think the "stupid" actions of players in PVP is somewhat related not only to the experience of the player in PVP, is related a lot with the different levels of players too. You see, most of those "stupid" actions are done by players that aren't high level or haven't reached cap level. They do those actions because they feel completely overpowered by all their enemies and that leads to fight without feeling the pain of beeing killed because they didn't stand a chance in the first place and can repeat this same thing again and again. That's where it happens that lower level players are used as some sort of pawns-that-can-die by the intelligent players (that, 99% of the times, are high/cap level players).
I think Guild Wars 2 might fix all these issues with making all the players have simillar stats and with a system of objectives simillar to the PVE Dynamic Events System. Balance all the players to work with only their experience and skills and with a system where there are other objectives besides "attack castle" and that will help the players in PVP:
They don't feel overpowered by higher level players ---> they will feel that their actions matter ---> They start using more and better actions.
The system with other more immersive and intelligent objectives besides directly attack ---> Players think more about their actions and might lead to different strategies ---> as time goes on, the experience in PVP is more noticed whether or not the players are usually good in PVP because they learn the different strategies they have done themselves.
Lets just hope that there are enough variety in these "other objectives" to lead the PVP of this game to another level.
About the OP: Just what everyone has said before, it's a beta in easy mode, it's level 1-2, and we know GW1 has one of the best coordination between mobs to defeat their attackers, so I guess that GW2 won't disappoint us either!
As recently stated, the demo was made easier so people could take all of it in within their time restraint, not to mention that you character is LEVEL 1-2
Requiamer: I'm really not sure what the big deal is with spawn locations and spawn methods of the enemies. Maybe I just haven't experienced a game yet where it really mattered but it's not something that makes or breaks a game for me. Perhaps if you can describe how it changed your gameplay experience in UO that would help.
As for AI it's been said before but I'll reiterate that the AI in GW1 was better than I've experienced in any other game (AI scatters away from AOE, goes after weaker players etc.)
If you want pure intelligence in gameplay I'd suggest you play PvP my friend. AI can be made to do many things, however, in the end it will always be predictable.
LOL...Pvp is real intelligence?
Have you looked around yourself lately? The world is littered with ignorance, stupidity, and apathy. Most human beings have no common sense nor do they have any idea what logic is.
*note* it is not my intention to sound condescending, all I ask is you consider my statement and utilize your own observations to put a rational value on it. Thanks
You both phrased it wrong. Obviously there isn't 'pure intelligence' in PvP, because there's a lot of stupidity mixed in.
On the other hand, it's obviously 'real intelligence'... since it's real people.
The whole point is that stupid, smart, and all the shades in between, human behavior has a lot greater breadth and realism than AIs can approach. For obvious reasons, after all it's called 'artificial' intelligence.
If you want pure intelligence in gameplay I'd suggest you play PvP my friend. AI can be made to do many things, however, in the end it will always be predictable.
LOL...Pvp is real intelligence?
Have you looked around yourself lately? The world is littered with ignorance, stupidity, and apathy. Most human beings have no common sense nor do they have any idea what logic is.
*note* it is not my intention to sound condescending, all I ask is you consider my statement and utilize your own observations to put a rational value on it. Thanks
You both phrased it wrong. Obviously there isn't 'pure intelligence' in PvP, because there's a lot of stupidity mixed in.
On the other hand, it's obviously 'real intelligence'... since it's real people.
The whole point is that stupid, smart, and all the shades in between, human behavior has a lot greater breadth and realism than AIs can approach. For obvious reasons, after all it's called 'artificial' intelligence.
very good point. I think this is where I get to say...touche'
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
very good point. I think this is where I get to say...touche'
Hey, major internet respect here for being willing to admit when you made a mistake. That's not very common!
I wouldnt go as far as to say I am mistaken about the overwhelming ignorance that plagues the human species. You did however make a very good observation regarding the differences between the underlying fundamentals of human intelligence and artifical intelligence.
I was contemplating your obsevation, and it made me begin to think about the similarities and the differences.
I understand that the main difference is the human brain is organic, and is created by the forces of the universe and is therefore intune with it to some degree. This means we potentially have the capacity to repond to the magnetic forces at work within the universe and those being generated by the planet itself.
On the otherhand, while the simple mechanics of computation are the same with AI, there remains the missing connection that all biological life has within.
Really this discussion can quickly boil down to quantum physics and the anatomy of conciousness and what is truly alive, or an organism, and what is not.
Can a computer have homeostasis?
Can it reproduce?
These two characteristics are vital to our abillity to make logical decisions because they both deal with self preservation.
Even if you program a computer to monitor itself and be regulate its vital functions,you cannot create true homeotasis, for you are only initiating a response to a specifi quantifiable event, therefore the ability to make decisions that effect its overall success is not present, for its overall success is determined by the programmer, thus there is no self preservation.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
If you want pure intelligence in gameplay I'd suggest you play PvP my friend. AI can be made to do many things, however, in the end it will always be predictable.
LOL...Pvp is real intelligence?
Have you looked around yourself lately? The world is littered with ignorance, stupidity, and apathy. Most human beings have no common sense nor do they have any idea what logic is.
*note* it is not my intention to sound condescending, all I ask is you consider my statement and utilize your own observations to put a rational value on it. Thanks
You both phrased it wrong. Obviously there isn't 'pure intelligence' in PvP, because there's a lot of stupidity mixed in.
On the other hand, it's obviously 'real intelligence'... since it's real people.
The whole point is that stupid, smart, and all the shades in between, human behavior has a lot greater breadth and realism than AIs can approach. For obvious reasons, after all it's called 'artificial' intelligence.
very good point. I think this is where I get to say...touche'
I also thank you for clarifying my own muddied attempt at conversation!
Requiamer: I'm really not sure what the big deal is with spawn locations and spawn methods of the enemies. Maybe I just haven't experienced a game yet where it really mattered but it's not something that makes or breaks a game for me. Perhaps if you can describe how it changed your gameplay experience in UO that would help.
As for AI it's been said before but I'll reiterate that the AI in GW1 was better than I've experienced in any other game (AI scatters away from AOE, goes after weaker players etc.)
Its not a big deal really, for someone that never played uo or who would play for the first time i'm not sure he would even see the difference to tell you the true. But if you played those pve builds like the bard in UO which main focus was pve, you certainly know what i'm talking about (the old school bard right)
Anyway few things are different, like the fact its 2d graphic so they could have really high density of mob in some locations (and yes everry spawn had his own density not like now), second you had colision but even without it density would create the same feeling (1 facet had colision the other didn't), because you could very easely get trapped by mobs. And then mob spawn was created to simulate thier homes, or if they were dungeon room they had their particularity, i think because the spawns were hand made in UO, it wasn't painted as it is now(i think thats what they do now to create spawn they have brush or algorithm i don't know). Some mob spawn had very strong personality other had less but it was clear some work was done behind this. Also in uo you had to loot by hand so it added some spice in the pve too, sometime you could kill mobs, but hadn't time to loot them, it was funny.
For those that played Uo they know perfectly the Orc fort, the dragonwyrm room, the ratmen fort in Ice, and most of the spawn played totally differently, those few exemples i'm sure everyone remember them for their "personality". Also as i said you would have to work the spawn sometime, this mean you'll had to lure the indesirable mobs outside the room you would want to play in, to keep the "good" ones inside for exemple. Shadow wyrm spawn is a very good exemple of this, the first bard coming after a server reset would have a hell of a job preparing the room.
In anycase it is just a pitty no game ever tryed to make a better pve using those simple tool given by the most ordinary spawn system. Uo was the first mmo right, so the tools are super basic right, but nobody ever even worked on them or even improved them since Uo. In fact they just totally ignore those tools since then, i have yet to see a mmo where spawn was even worked on, timing, density, anything, new mmo have none of this, zip, as if challenge in pve was their last concern in fact.
If you want pure intelligence in gameplay I'd suggest you play PvP my friend. AI can be made to do many things, however, in the end it will always be predictable.
LOL...Pvp is real intelligence?
Have you looked around yourself lately? The world is littered with ignorance, stupidity, and apathy. Most human beings have no common sense nor do they have any idea what logic is.
*note* it is not my intention to sound condescending, all I ask is you consider my statement and utilize your own observations to put a rational value on it. Thanks
You both phrased it wrong. Obviously there isn't 'pure intelligence' in PvP, because there's a lot of stupidity mixed in.
On the other hand, it's obviously 'real intelligence'... since it's real people.
The whole point is that stupid, smart, and all the shades in between, human behavior has a lot greater breadth and realism than AIs can approach. For obvious reasons, after all it's called 'artificial' intelligence.
very good point. I think this is where I get to say...touche'
I also thank you for clarifying my own muddied attempt at conversation!
actuallly, I think you had it point on to begin with.
Real intelligence is PvP
Artificial intelligence is PvE
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Comments
I just lol with this statement! xD I have to agree with you that most human beeings don't think twice about a lot of things, and in PVP we can see some people that don't know what they are doing.
BUT we see a lot of smart players doing really smart things. I remmember in Guild Wars 1 and in other 2 games where PVP with a group well organized and some experience could mean the victory, specially in a battlefield with a large number of players where a unique and well thought strategy of only one group can lead to victory. I have experienced some of that too.
I think the "stupid" actions of players in PVP is somewhat related not only to the experience of the player in PVP, is related a lot with the different levels of players too. You see, most of those "stupid" actions are done by players that aren't high level or haven't reached cap level. They do those actions because they feel completely overpowered by all their enemies and that leads to fight without feeling the pain of beeing killed because they didn't stand a chance in the first place and can repeat this same thing again and again. That's where it happens that lower level players are used as some sort of pawns-that-can-die by the intelligent players (that, 99% of the times, are high/cap level players).
I think Guild Wars 2 might fix all these issues with making all the players have simillar stats and with a system of objectives simillar to the PVE Dynamic Events System. Balance all the players to work with only their experience and skills and with a system where there are other objectives besides "attack castle" and that will help the players in PVP:
They don't feel overpowered by higher level players ---> they will feel that their actions matter ---> They start using more and better actions.
The system with other more immersive and intelligent objectives besides directly attack ---> Players think more about their actions and might lead to different strategies ---> as time goes on, the experience in PVP is more noticed whether or not the players are usually good in PVP because they learn the different strategies they have done themselves.
Lets just hope that there are enough variety in these "other objectives" to lead the PVP of this game to another level.
About the OP: Just what everyone has said before, it's a beta in easy mode, it's level 1-2, and we know GW1 has one of the best coordination between mobs to defeat their attackers, so I guess that GW2 won't disappoint us either!
As recently stated, the demo was made easier so people could take all of it in within their time restraint, not to mention that you character is LEVEL 1-2
Requiamer: I'm really not sure what the big deal is with spawn locations and spawn methods of the enemies. Maybe I just haven't experienced a game yet where it really mattered but it's not something that makes or breaks a game for me. Perhaps if you can describe how it changed your gameplay experience in UO that would help.
As for AI it's been said before but I'll reiterate that the AI in GW1 was better than I've experienced in any other game (AI scatters away from AOE, goes after weaker players etc.)
You both phrased it wrong. Obviously there isn't 'pure intelligence' in PvP, because there's a lot of stupidity mixed in.
On the other hand, it's obviously 'real intelligence'... since it's real people.
The whole point is that stupid, smart, and all the shades in between, human behavior has a lot greater breadth and realism than AIs can approach. For obvious reasons, after all it's called 'artificial' intelligence.
very good point. I think this is where I get to say...touche'
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
Hey, major internet respect here for being willing to admit when you made a mistake. That's not very common!
I wouldnt go as far as to say I am mistaken about the overwhelming ignorance that plagues the human species. You did however make a very good observation regarding the differences between the underlying fundamentals of human intelligence and artifical intelligence.
I was contemplating your obsevation, and it made me begin to think about the similarities and the differences.
I understand that the main difference is the human brain is organic, and is created by the forces of the universe and is therefore intune with it to some degree. This means we potentially have the capacity to repond to the magnetic forces at work within the universe and those being generated by the planet itself.
On the otherhand, while the simple mechanics of computation are the same with AI, there remains the missing connection that all biological life has within.
Really this discussion can quickly boil down to quantum physics and the anatomy of conciousness and what is truly alive, or an organism, and what is not.
Can a computer have homeostasis?
Can it reproduce?
These two characteristics are vital to our abillity to make logical decisions because they both deal with self preservation.
Even if you program a computer to monitor itself and be regulate its vital functions,you cannot create true homeotasis, for you are only initiating a response to a specifi quantifiable event, therefore the ability to make decisions that effect its overall success is not present, for its overall success is determined by the programmer, thus there is no self preservation.
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
I also thank you for clarifying my own muddied attempt at conversation!
Its not a big deal really, for someone that never played uo or who would play for the first time i'm not sure he would even see the difference to tell you the true. But if you played those pve builds like the bard in UO which main focus was pve, you certainly know what i'm talking about (the old school bard right)
Anyway few things are different, like the fact its 2d graphic so they could have really high density of mob in some locations (and yes everry spawn had his own density not like now), second you had colision but even without it density would create the same feeling (1 facet had colision the other didn't), because you could very easely get trapped by mobs. And then mob spawn was created to simulate thier homes, or if they were dungeon room they had their particularity, i think because the spawns were hand made in UO, it wasn't painted as it is now(i think thats what they do now to create spawn they have brush or algorithm i don't know). Some mob spawn had very strong personality other had less but it was clear some work was done behind this. Also in uo you had to loot by hand so it added some spice in the pve too, sometime you could kill mobs, but hadn't time to loot them, it was funny.
For those that played Uo they know perfectly the Orc fort, the dragonwyrm room, the ratmen fort in Ice, and most of the spawn played totally differently, those few exemples i'm sure everyone remember them for their "personality". Also as i said you would have to work the spawn sometime, this mean you'll had to lure the indesirable mobs outside the room you would want to play in, to keep the "good" ones inside for exemple. Shadow wyrm spawn is a very good exemple of this, the first bard coming after a server reset would have a hell of a job preparing the room.
In anycase it is just a pitty no game ever tryed to make a better pve using those simple tool given by the most ordinary spawn system. Uo was the first mmo right, so the tools are super basic right, but nobody ever even worked on them or even improved them since Uo. In fact they just totally ignore those tools since then, i have yet to see a mmo where spawn was even worked on, timing, density, anything, new mmo have none of this, zip, as if challenge in pve was their last concern in fact.
actuallly, I think you had it point on to begin with.
Real intelligence is PvP
Artificial intelligence is PvE
To the caterpillar it is the end of the world, to the master, it is a butterfly.
In fact when i think about it only UO and Rift have made some work on their spawn system, and i can't count the mmos i played ...