For a very good game $15 month is nothing. Actially super cheap. For a mediocre / bad game it's a lot of money. It all boils down what price tag entertainment is worth to you. Making these discussions highly subjective with no right or wrongs
P2P is, imo, a contract that guarantees quality and regular updates and I support the company because they cater to my needs. F2P is, in many cases, a Pay 2 win moneysucker and I loathe the concept.
Because you have always had to pay something to buy the game.
The concept of monthly fees is still relatively new, hence the trepidation.
Actually... in terms of computer entertainment, it's not new at all. Subscriptions for online games/services have been around for over 10 years now. They've been quite well accepted and established.
The only "issue" now is that F2P has picked up popularity in the Western market (while it's been in the Eastern market for a while already). So, now all of a sudden, you have people who like the idea of "Free" trying to argue subscriptions as though it's some kind of out-dated or failed concept. It's not failed. It's quite successful.
Now people try to argue that subscriptions need to go because there are poor games that they feel not worth paying for. They're basically blaming the game being bad on the fact that it's sub-based... which is really a non-sequitur. They're not worth a sub because they're not good enough games to the individual(s) in question. That's always been the case, even before F2P hit the scene. People tend to not want to pay for something if they don't find it worth the cost. Whether or not it's a subscription has nothing to do with it.
I think a lot of pro-F2P/Anti-P2P arguments boil down to people simply wanting something for free. The quality of the game has nothing to do with it. They just don't want to pay anything to play it.
Subs haven't changed. The perception of some people toward them, in light of so-called "F2P MMOs", has changed.
Also, there are very few games out that are even worth the monthly fee in the first place, especially when there are great alternatives which cost absolutely nothing per month to play online (not just MMO's obviously).
Whether or not a game is worth a sub is entirely subjective.You can't speak in such absolutes.
If someone enjoys a MMORPG enough to pay a subscription fee, then it's worth it to them. I don't care if the game has 50 thousand or 10 million players... in every case, those people feel the game is worth a sub to them, regardless of how much others feel it isn't.
Overall, it's a hard sell when you are faced with a brand new game which charges the same as a game which has had 6 years of polish and content added to it and is practically guaranteed not to shut down it's servers within the next 6 months.
Kind of a non-argument. You're paying for a service and you are getting that service. There's no guarantee when you subscribe to or pay for anything that you're going to enjoy it, or that it's going to still be around in 6 months. That's the case whether we're talking games, magazines or anything else.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I never understood it either. if you play a F2P game, it really isn't free if you want to play the whole game, name one example of a F2P game that doesn't have optional paying for stuff and those that do pay and those that don't pay are on equal footing. I personally don't like that. Give me a game where everyone is on equal footing as far as time put in and amount of fun/reward/entertainment/progress is taken out.
Some of these so called F2P games have people paying well over the somewhat normal $15/mo that people pay for P2P. They are paying for things to make em faster, to get more exp per kill, do be able to warp here and there, to use better equip...etc. All in all making it an unfair playground for all. You end up having to pay $50/mo just to try and keep up. Now a few of the F2P games just let you buy upgrades to the looks of their clothes and weapons, or what I'd call window dressing. I have no problem with these F2P games as everyone is playing equaly, some people's avator just looks stupid, I'm always amazed to see what people will pay for.
People that gripe about $15/mo for a game are just griping to be griping. Throwing in there that you have to also buy the game isn't a valid argument. Name one game out there that is single player that you buy for $50 and after a month of playing it you haven't beaten it? Sure you might still get a little enjoyment out of it after that (namely sports games), but for the most part you are done with it. No lets say for $15 they add more content to it and you get more fun out of it and hey, what's this you get to pay with 1000's of other people from all over the world. Sounds pretty good to me.
I've been playing P2P games since '97 and I have tried just about all of them, a lot of them I haven't continued to play after the first 30 days free, so it's pretty much like buying a single player game for $50 and beating it in a month. The ones that I consider to still be fun after those 30 days are up I have no problem paying another $15 to continue enjoying it for another month. My wife used to have a problem with this until I had her write down the number of times she bought a Starbucks coffee every mont h and her monthly amount came up to 2-3 times what mine was for a game. Then I had a younger brother that had a hard to with it when he finally got a computer and stopped playing just console games. Then I had him write down the amount he spent on renting movies or other things that he normally spent money on because it was normal but not a necessity. The amount of time/enjoyment from a monthly charge for a game is way ahead of any other time of entertainment available to us.
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I've made that argument myself... Considering how little you're paying per hour even if you're a casual player with only a couple hours to play a night, the argument that a monthly sub isn't worth it is really ridiculous.
People can, and routinely do, spend far more on things that are consumed and gone in far less time.
Reading a lot of the arguments, though... I personally I think it comes down to the subtext more than any actual argument. The subtext is simply that people want something for nothing. And, so of course they will make subs seem as horrible and bad and out-dated and "failed" as they can.
That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that up until F2P hit the scene, very few ever expressed any real issue with subs at all. And those who did simply didn't play, feeling the cost wasn't worth it.
It's no different now. It's just that now there's these so-called F2P games on the market, and it's turned people on to the idea of "playing for free". So now everything "should be free to play".
It's really rather funny.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I've made that argument myself... Considering how little you're paying per hour even if you're a casual player with only a couple hours to play a night, the argument that a monthly sub isn't worth it is really ridiculous.
People can, and routinely do, spend far more on things that are consumed and gone in far more time.
Reading a lot of the arguments, though... I personally I think it comes down to the subtext more than any actual argument. The subtext is simply that people want something for nothing. And, so of course they will make subs seem as horrible and bad and out-dated and "failed" as they can.
That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that up until F2P hit the scene, very few ever expressed any real issue with subs at all. And those who did simply didn't play, feeling the cost wasn't worth it.
It's no different now. It's just that now there's these so-called F2P games on the market, and it's turned people on to the idea of "playing for free". So now everything "should be free to play".
It's really rather funny.
I agree.
I also agree with Lorisha, if a person is having trouble paying $15 per then they should definitely NOT be playing games and should be fixing their financial situation or just being more mindful of how they spend their money. I say that as a person, many years ago, who lost their job while in school and had nothing.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
I never understood it either. if you play a F2P game, it really isn't free if you want to play the whole game, name one example of a F2P game that doesn't have optional paying for stuff and those that do pay and those that don't pay are on equal footing. I personally don't like that. Give me a game where everyone is on equal footing as far as time put in and amount of fun/reward/entertainment/progress is taken out.
Bingo. I've put forth that challenge myself several times. No one's ever stepped up to meet it.
If you look back over forum threads for various F2P MMOs, or even about F2P in general, you'll notice a pattern. That pattern is that those who argue the strongest that "you can experience the entire game without paying a dime" are still in the first 20-30 levels... where many F2P MMOs (that I've played anyway) are still giving you lots of freebies and you don't have to pay anything to get them.
Of course the reason for that is so they can get you accustom to and even dependent on having them, so when they remove the umbilical cord and stop giving you the freebies, and you're suddenly left with experiencing the game without those aides... pulling out the credit card to purchase some more is going to be far more appealing.
For all the declarations and assertions to the contrary by some, I've yet to see a single person step up who can legitimately stand toe-to-toe, stat for stat, item for item, experience for experience with people who use the cash shop, without spending a dime themselves and without having to put substantial amounts of time into grinding it out in-game. I don't feel it far fetched to argue that I never will... yet we'll continue to see people insisting that you can.
Some of these so called F2P games have people paying well over the somewhat normal $15/mo that people pay for P2P. They are paying for things to make em faster, to get more exp per kill, do be able to warp here and there, to use better equip...etc. All in all making it an unfair playground for all. You end up having to pay $50/mo just to try and keep up. Now a few of the F2P games just let you buy upgrades to the looks of their clothes and weapons, or what I'd call window dressing. I have no problem with these F2P games as everyone is playing equaly, some people's avator just looks stupid, I'm always amazed to see what people will pay for.
Yep. It's been stated from the words of F2P developers themselves, right here on this site in a panel vid MMORPG.com put up some time back. They can monetize players for far more than what they'd get for a monthly sub. And that's the only reason they are into it. They're not really interested in "letting people play for free"... quite the contrary. They're interested in gettingn people to pay more.
As I've put it before... F2P/Cash Shop MMOs make their money by selling convenient solutions to unnecessary problems. Just one example, in a P2P MMO if the xp curve is too steep, devs acknowledge it and correct it. In a F2P MMO the xp curve is too steep by design... so they can sell more xp pots.
People that gripe about $15/mo for a game are just griping to be griping. Throwing in there that you have to also buy the game isn't a valid argument. Name one game out there that is single player that you buy for $50 and after a month of playing it you haven't beaten it? Sure you might still get a little enjoyment out of it after that (namely sports games), but for the most part you are done with it. No lets say for $15 they add more content to it and you get more fun out of it and hey, what's this you get to pay with 1000's of other people from all over the world. Sounds pretty good to me.
MMOs are long-established as being both games and online services. While money from subs does go back to development (which allows people to keep playing without running out of things to do indefinitely), it also pays for the online service portion of the game, and all that goes on to support it (hardware, bandwidth, support, staff, development, etc. etc).
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I tried to convince Shooter players to play Planetside after it released. "Monthly fee? nooo". They either got their standard shooter from some warez-sites, or were scared away of P2P and just buy their new FPS each 2 months, or are just not trustworthy or incapable to do financial things on the internet.
I don't know tbh, most of these "free to play" games actually cost much more monthly to remain competitve than a free to play game does. This is ESPECALLY true if the game has pvp. Take Runes of magic and Allods Online, At higher levels you'll be spending hundreds a month in the cash shop if you really wanna get anywhere. Overall pay to play mmo's with a monthly fee ARE cheaper than f2p titles in general in the long run.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words." -Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I've made that argument myself... Considering how little you're paying per hour even if you're a casual player with only a couple hours to play a night, the argument that a monthly sub isn't worth it is really ridiculous.
People can, and routinely do, spend far more on things that are consumed and gone in far more time.
Reading a lot of the arguments, though... I personally I think it comes down to the subtext more than any actual argument. The subtext is simply that people want something for nothing. And, so of course they will make subs seem as horrible and bad and out-dated and "failed" as they can.
That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that up until F2P hit the scene, very few ever expressed any real issue with subs at all. And those who did simply didn't play, feeling the cost wasn't worth it.
It's no different now. It's just that now there's these so-called F2P games on the market, and it's turned people on to the idea of "playing for free". So now everything "should be free to play".
It's really rather funny.
I agree.
I also agree with Lorisha, if a person is having trouble paying $15 per then they should definitely NOT be playing games and should be fixing their financial situation or just being more mindful of how they spend their money. I say that as a person, many years ago, who lost their job while in school and had nothing.
Yep.
For the type of entertainment they provide, MMOs are certainly one of the cheapest forms of entertainment you can engage in over time.
I'm sure there are other hobbies that are relatively inexpensive as well... but not many.
Another thing about how people argue that P2P is "outdated" and "subs" are somehow a failed system that needs to go (as many have argued here and elsewhere).. and how F2P is the best answer to it is how it reminds me so much of your typical advertising. Convince people there's a problem, and then sell them a product to "fix it". In this case, convince people there's somehow something "wrong" with subscription-based games - even though they've been around and did just fine for over a decade - and then offer them F2P with Cash Shops as a "solution". It's so transparent that I seriously am amazed some people don't see through it.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
So, for $15 per MONTH, I get "unlimited" access to the game & all it's content (unless it's a Pay to Win game, then you DON'T).
That is an outright lie! So you are telling me that in all the games you pay $15 bucks to play you get access to all the content? Oh so you never have to pay for expansions on top of that $15 a month you pay to access the game server? Oh so you mean you have to pay for new content on top of paying for access to the server. Wow so what again does that $15 a month you pay get?
Just because you want to waste money on something does not make it a good deal and it does not make anyone that does not see it that way a fool. After all it is still a waste of money. And after writing this grand speech of how great a deal it is, you can go cry about how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Oh I wonder why, after all paying $15 a month for access to a server, is the best deal on the planet. And anyone that cannot see that is a fool .
So, for $15 per MONTH, I get "unlimited" access to the game & all it's content (unless it's a Pay to Win game, then you DON'T).
That is an outright lie! So you are telling me that in all the games you pay $15 bucks to play you get access to all the content? Oh so you never have to pay for expansions on top of that $15 a month you pay to access the game server? Oh so you mean you have to pay for new content on top of paying for access to the server. Wow so what again does that $15 a month you pay get?
No actually it's quite true.
$15 gets you online access to all existing content you purchased, yes. You pay your sub, you log in, you can do anything in the game you have access to. Buying an expansion pack gets you additional new content to add to what you already have. The $15 sub provides you on-going access to the online service for the content you've purchased.
The flaw in your argument is you're attempting to combine two different things into one.
You buy the content. You subscribe the online service.
Just because you want to waste money on something does not make it a good deal and it does not make anyone that does not see it that way a fool. After all it is still a waste of money. And after writing this grand speech of how great a deal it is, you can go cry about how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Oh I wonder why, after all paying $15 a month for access to a server, is the best deal on the planet. And anyone that cannot see that is a fool .
And just because you say so, and referring to people who disagree with you as "fools" doesn't make your assertions any more correct. Ad hominems never "win" debates.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I've made that argument myself... Considering how little you're paying per hour even if you're a casual player with only a couple hours to play a night, the argument that a monthly sub isn't worth it is really ridiculous.
People can, and routinely do, spend far more on things that are consumed and gone in far more time.
Reading a lot of the arguments, though... I personally I think it comes down to the subtext more than any actual argument. The subtext is simply that people want something for nothing. And, so of course they will make subs seem as horrible and bad and out-dated and "failed" as they can.
That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that up until F2P hit the scene, very few ever expressed any real issue with subs at all. And those who did simply didn't play, feeling the cost wasn't worth it.
It's no different now. It's just that now there's these so-called F2P games on the market, and it's turned people on to the idea of "playing for free". So now everything "should be free to play".
It's really rather funny.
I agree.
I also agree with Lorisha, if a person is having trouble paying $15 per then they should definitely NOT be playing games and should be fixing their financial situation or just being more mindful of how they spend their money. I say that as a person, many years ago, who lost their job while in school and had nothing.
Yep.
For the type of entertainment they provide, MMOs are certainly one of the cheapest forms of entertainment you can engage in over time.
I'm sure there are other hobbies that are relatively inexpensive as well... but not many.
Another thing about how people argue that P2P is "outdated" and "subs" are somehow a failed system that needs to go (as many have argued here and elsewhere).. and how F2P is the best answer to it is how it reminds me so much of your typical advertising. Convince people there's a problem, and then sell them a product to "fix it". In this case, convince people there's somehow something "wrong" with subscription-based games - even though they've been around and did just fine for over a decade - and then offer them F2P with Cash Shops as a "solution". It's so transparent that I seriously am amazed some people don't see through it.
The thing about free 2 play games is that they are free to play iIf one wants to put up with a variety of annoyances in games such as longer leveling or having to grind a bit more or having heavy death penalties, etc. But then they offer you an option to bypass that.
Game companies fully expect people to play for free. They also expect some people to pay "some" money and then another group that can't control itself to pay a LOT of money.
And it's a business so they do need to make money. Sometimes I think some players have "the rage" because they truly expect to have the exact same game experience as players who pay. So yes, it's free but not the same experience.
So getting back to your point about making players feel that there is something wrong, I think what game companies have realized is that people are willing to pay real money for things in game. We wouldn't have gold seller problems if this was not the case. And they spend money trying to fight these gold sellers. So why not just open the game up and make it easier for players to pay money to make things easier and instead of giving that money to gold sellers give it to the game companies?
I'm not sure that they are making players feel like it's a problem so much as f2p offers a better solution to the players. However this is provided that those players can keep hold of their wallets.
Like Skyrim? Need more content? Try my Skyrim mod "Godfred's Tomb."
So, for $15 per MONTH, I get "unlimited" access to the game & all it's content (unless it's a Pay to Win game, then you DON'T).
That is an outright lie! So you are telling me that in all the games you pay $15 bucks to play you get access to all the content? Oh so you never have to pay for expansions on top of that $15 a month you pay to access the game server? Oh so you mean you have to pay for new content on top of paying for access to the server. Wow so what again does that $15 a month you pay get?
No actually it's quite true.
$15 gets you online access to all existing content you purchased, yes. You pay your sub, you log in, you can do anything in the game you have access to. Buying an expansion pack gets you additional new content. The $15 sub provides you on-going access to the online service for the content you've purchased.
The flaw in your argument is you're attempting to combine two different things into one.
Just because you want to waste money on something does not make it a good deal and it does not make anyone that does not see it that way a fool. After all it is still a waste of money. And after writing this grand speech of how great a deal it is, you can go cry about how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Oh I wonder why, after all paying $15 a month for access to a server, is the best deal on the planet. And anyone that cannot see that is a fool .
And just because you say so, and referring to people who disagree with you as "fools" doesn't make your assertions any more correct. Ad hominems never "win" debates.
Dude, what? I never said you were a fool for disagreeing with me…do you understand sarcasm? I said that because people’s defense of subscription base gaming makes it sound like if you do not see it as the best form of entertainment you are a fool. And I am happy you think paying $15 a month to get access to a server is a great deal. I just wish you would all say that since you still pay for content updates. I just wish you would stop making it sound as the best deal that anyone in mankind can ever conceive of. You like it so good for you; to me any game company that charges $15 for access to a server is a snake oil salesman. Of course that is just my opinion! I just do not get where any of you can come off as saying that this is such a great deal and anyone that does not see it that way is wrong.
The thing about free 2 play games is that they are free to play. If one wants to put up with a variety of annoyances in games such as longer leveling or having to grind a bit more or having heavy death penalties, etc. But then they offer you an option to bypass that.
Exactly. You can play for free, if you dont' mind putting up with all the inconveniences - deliberately implemented - of doing so.
Game companies fully expect people to play for free. They also expect some people to pay "some" money and then another group that can't control itself to pay a LOT of money.
Well, when I said they don't intend people to play for free, I meant in the sense that they don't develop F2P MMOs as some charity out of the goodness of their hearts. The games - specifically the cash shops - are set up specifically to milk more out of the paying customer than they would get from a monthly sub. So it's a sort of irony I'm getting at.
And it's a business so they do need to make money. Sometimes I think some players have "the rage" because they truly expect to have the exact same game experience as players who pay. So yes, it's free but not the same experience.
I have no gripes with a company wanting to make money. I simply disagree with how F2P/Cash Shop MMOs go about it, along with some of the PR/marketing they do to support it.
So getting back to your point about making players feel that there is something wrong, I think what game companies have realized is that people are willing to pay real money for things in game. We wouldn't have gold seller problems if this was not the case. And they spend money trying to fight these gold sellers. So why not just open the game up and make it easier for players to pay money to make things easier and instead of giving that money to gold sellers give it to the game companies?
Because it doesn't solve the problem of RMT and they're not addressing the same thing.
There are still gold sellers aplenty in F2P MMOs. RMT companies are still getting the money from the players. I've logged into plenty to see my chat immediately spammed with RMT ads every time until I blocked them all. I've seen them in their bot-trains running around doing their thing.
I agree that RMT is part of the reason why developers have embraced RMT. However, I also believe it was purely to get a slice of the pie - to get more $$$$ from the players - not to "deal with RMT" in any way.
I'm not sure that they are making players feel like it's a problem so much as f2p offers a better solution to the players. However this is provided that those players can keep hold of their wallets.
"Better" would be entirely subjective in this case and I would entirely disagree with that in any objective sense.
In my experience with various F2P MMOs.. it's been very much "you get what you pay for"... and not in a good way.I have had to alter the way I play F2P MMOs (and I'm far from a hardcore/powergamer type)if I want to keep at it as a free player and not regularly hit barriers with $$$ attached to them.
"If you just step away for a sec you will clearly see all the pot holes in the road, and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Im not a holyman and do download a game every now and then to, whit a excuse of being poor ( not going into details but I am actualy just above street living level :P ) But I know my action and know that its not someting to be proud off.
Oh yes well if you consider the prices of original games and the average paycheck most families get monthly here no1 will be able to afford such a thing...
Anyway how dare you to to even consider Ilegal gaming (stealing) whit legaly playing / paying for any game/mmo. your saying becource you chose to be a thief you think the entire mmo bussiness should stop asking a fair prize for the service they offer.
Where did I ask the MMO business to stop asking ppl to pay for their games,he asked why do people complain.... oh hello there didn't see this before lol... overlooked this and just wrote why don't I play these games xP
And yes it might look somewhat weird to you or anyone who lives in a country where such laws are strict but here no1 really gives a f*ck what you do unless you are selling it and it's doing damage to their business, otherwise I can take you to any shop that sells games and you can order/enquire about any title and they'll have it ready for you within the hour or two... depending on how fast the torrent goes
$15 is nothing compared to the real prize of those stolen goods you have, F2P games a desent argument in some cases but if you need to buy anyting froma item shop you easely spent $10-15 a month. more most likely.
Never used CS and I never will...
I hope for your own sake you stop umm .. LoLing? and start thinking before some local institution comes knocking on your door and fines you for few thoused bucks (or your mom if your still under aged)
Oh trust me they wouldn't be able to find guys working such a job that wouldn't be fined for the possession of illegal software...
Comments
For a very good game $15 month is nothing. Actially super cheap. For a mediocre / bad game it's a lot of money. It all boils down what price tag entertainment is worth to you. Making these discussions highly subjective with no right or wrongs
I dont complain. I defend it.
P2P is, imo, a contract that guarantees quality and regular updates and I support the company because they cater to my needs. F2P is, in many cases, a Pay 2 win moneysucker and I loathe the concept.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I never understood it either. if you play a F2P game, it really isn't free if you want to play the whole game, name one example of a F2P game that doesn't have optional paying for stuff and those that do pay and those that don't pay are on equal footing. I personally don't like that. Give me a game where everyone is on equal footing as far as time put in and amount of fun/reward/entertainment/progress is taken out.
Some of these so called F2P games have people paying well over the somewhat normal $15/mo that people pay for P2P. They are paying for things to make em faster, to get more exp per kill, do be able to warp here and there, to use better equip...etc. All in all making it an unfair playground for all. You end up having to pay $50/mo just to try and keep up. Now a few of the F2P games just let you buy upgrades to the looks of their clothes and weapons, or what I'd call window dressing. I have no problem with these F2P games as everyone is playing equaly, some people's avator just looks stupid, I'm always amazed to see what people will pay for.
People that gripe about $15/mo for a game are just griping to be griping. Throwing in there that you have to also buy the game isn't a valid argument. Name one game out there that is single player that you buy for $50 and after a month of playing it you haven't beaten it? Sure you might still get a little enjoyment out of it after that (namely sports games), but for the most part you are done with it. No lets say for $15 they add more content to it and you get more fun out of it and hey, what's this you get to pay with 1000's of other people from all over the world. Sounds pretty good to me.
I've been playing P2P games since '97 and I have tried just about all of them, a lot of them I haven't continued to play after the first 30 days free, so it's pretty much like buying a single player game for $50 and beating it in a month. The ones that I consider to still be fun after those 30 days are up I have no problem paying another $15 to continue enjoying it for another month. My wife used to have a problem with this until I had her write down the number of times she bought a Starbucks coffee every mont h and her monthly amount came up to 2-3 times what mine was for a game. Then I had a younger brother that had a hard to with it when he finally got a computer and stopped playing just console games. Then I had him write down the amount he spent on renting movies or other things that he normally spent money on because it was normal but not a necessity. The amount of time/enjoyment from a monthly charge for a game is way ahead of any other time of entertainment available to us.
I prefer p2p ovre free to pay any day, however, I feel like a lot of games that try to charge monthly fees are not worth monthly fees.
Excellent post and I agree 100%. I've made that argument myself... Considering how little you're paying per hour even if you're a casual player with only a couple hours to play a night, the argument that a monthly sub isn't worth it is really ridiculous.
People can, and routinely do, spend far more on things that are consumed and gone in far less time.
Reading a lot of the arguments, though... I personally I think it comes down to the subtext more than any actual argument. The subtext is simply that people want something for nothing. And, so of course they will make subs seem as horrible and bad and out-dated and "failed" as they can.
That's all well and good, until you look at the fact that up until F2P hit the scene, very few ever expressed any real issue with subs at all. And those who did simply didn't play, feeling the cost wasn't worth it.
It's no different now. It's just that now there's these so-called F2P games on the market, and it's turned people on to the idea of "playing for free". So now everything "should be free to play".
It's really rather funny.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I agree.
I also agree with Lorisha, if a person is having trouble paying $15 per then they should definitely NOT be playing games and should be fixing their financial situation or just being more mindful of how they spend their money. I say that as a person, many years ago, who lost their job while in school and had nothing.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Easy one 99% of the complainers are kids who can´t efford it or are cheap dudes. Thats also the reason why f2p mmorpgs are full of kids under 18.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I tried to convince Shooter players to play Planetside after it released. "Monthly fee? nooo". They either got their standard shooter from some warez-sites, or were scared away of P2P and just buy their new FPS each 2 months, or are just not trustworthy or incapable to do financial things on the internet.
I don't know tbh, most of these "free to play" games actually cost much more monthly to remain competitve than a free to play game does. This is ESPECALLY true if the game has pvp. Take Runes of magic and Allods Online, At higher levels you'll be spending hundreds a month in the cash shop if you really wanna get anywhere. Overall pay to play mmo's with a monthly fee ARE cheaper than f2p titles in general in the long run.
"An MMORPG could be completely diffirent from WoW. Just look at games like Dofus, Wizard101 or EVE. But as it is, most of the Western MMOs are trying to succeed by out-WoWing WoW. It's like an army of 10 sports games made about same sports, and barely none about other sports. WoW clone is an accurate description of those games, it manages to convey much information with only two words."
-Poster on mmorpg.com
Rift: World of Warcraft clone #9321 Nothing special to see here move along.
Yep.
For the type of entertainment they provide, MMOs are certainly one of the cheapest forms of entertainment you can engage in over time.
I'm sure there are other hobbies that are relatively inexpensive as well... but not many.
Another thing about how people argue that P2P is "outdated" and "subs" are somehow a failed system that needs to go (as many have argued here and elsewhere).. and how F2P is the best answer to it is how it reminds me so much of your typical advertising. Convince people there's a problem, and then sell them a product to "fix it". In this case, convince people there's somehow something "wrong" with subscription-based games - even though they've been around and did just fine for over a decade - and then offer them F2P with Cash Shops as a "solution". It's so transparent that I seriously am amazed some people don't see through it.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
That is an outright lie! So you are telling me that in all the games you pay $15 bucks to play you get access to all the content? Oh so you never have to pay for expansions on top of that $15 a month you pay to access the game server? Oh so you mean you have to pay for new content on top of paying for access to the server. Wow so what again does that $15 a month you pay get?
Just because you want to waste money on something does not make it a good deal and it does not make anyone that does not see it that way a fool. After all it is still a waste of money. And after writing this grand speech of how great a deal it is, you can go cry about how the rich are getting richer and the poor are getting poorer. Oh I wonder why, after all paying $15 a month for access to a server, is the best deal on the planet. And anyone that cannot see that is a fool
because personally i think 15 dollars a month is worth unlimited entertainment. And everything is equil amungst players due to no cash shops.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
I will pay hundreds of dollars on a hobby if I am getting value for my money.
But I wont pay five dollars on something if i am not.
Just because five dollars is not a lot of money is irrelevant.
The thing about free 2 play games is that they are free to play iIf one wants to put up with a variety of annoyances in games such as longer leveling or having to grind a bit more or having heavy death penalties, etc. But then they offer you an option to bypass that.
Game companies fully expect people to play for free. They also expect some people to pay "some" money and then another group that can't control itself to pay a LOT of money.
And it's a business so they do need to make money. Sometimes I think some players have "the rage" because they truly expect to have the exact same game experience as players who pay. So yes, it's free but not the same experience.
So getting back to your point about making players feel that there is something wrong, I think what game companies have realized is that people are willing to pay real money for things in game. We wouldn't have gold seller problems if this was not the case. And they spend money trying to fight these gold sellers. So why not just open the game up and make it easier for players to pay money to make things easier and instead of giving that money to gold sellers give it to the game companies?
I'm not sure that they are making players feel like it's a problem so much as f2p offers a better solution to the players. However this is provided that those players can keep hold of their wallets.
Godfred's Tomb Trailer: https://youtu.be/-nsXGddj_4w
Original Skyrim: https://www.nexusmods.com/skyrim/mods/109547
Serph toze kindly has started a walk-through. https://youtu.be/UIelCK-lldo
Dude, what? I never said you were a fool for disagreeing with me…do you understand sarcasm? I said that because people’s defense of subscription base gaming makes it sound like if you do not see it as the best form of entertainment you are a fool. And I am happy you think paying $15 a month to get access to a server is a great deal. I just wish you would all say that since you still pay for content updates. I just wish you would stop making it sound as the best deal that anyone in mankind can ever conceive of. You like it so good for you; to me any game company that charges $15 for access to a server is a snake oil salesman. Of course that is just my opinion! I just do not get where any of you can come off as saying that this is such a great deal and anyone that does not see it that way is wrong.
and the cash shop selling asphalt..." - Mimzel on F2P/Cash Shops
Lol anyway overlooked "COMPLAIN" ....