Originally posted by Seival Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough? I hope so. It will be nice to pay only for bugless content you want to see instead of paying for ingame "unfixed-bugs-neutralizing-support" and for content you do not want (or can't access depending on time you spend in game and your playstile).
I don't see how it's a sustainable model.. Those servers, the bandwidth and maintenance technicians, plus the devs.. they all cost money on a monthly basis.
Not many mmo's will allow themselves such a blatant money hole heh
GW1 can run successfully after all these years because server and bandwith cost is pretty minuscule. I recall reading somewhere about a guy who ran his own private server and it cost him practically nothing to maintain his bandwith and server processors. B2p games can easily be successful in this industry. And what made GW1 special is that there is only 1 expansion and 3 games. If you buy prophecies well good for you enjoy the game, they don't make it necessary to buy factions and nightfall in order to advance your character. Those are stand alone games and when combined with the other 2 add to the experience of the game, but you aren't required to own them, unlike how you are required to buy expansions in other games in order to progress.
And some folks seem to think B2P games are "free", when in fact they are more like purchasing as series of single player games, where every 6 months or a year you purchase the next expansion.
I sort of prefer the CCP/EVE model where you purchase the game once, and the expansions are free forever. (same is true with Lineage 2)
What remains to be seen is if a traditional MMORPG can be developed and supported with the B2P model, GW1 was not such a game (even the Developers acknowledge this) so GW2 is the great experiment. If it succeeds then yes, we'll see the model expand to more MMO's, if it flops then the model will be relegated to just one of many alternatives.
Edit, one more thing, having a monthly sub keeps out "some" of the riff-raff of the gaming world (check out the communities of almost any F2P game to see what I mean, and GW1 was no exception) and in fact, I'd pay 30 bucks a month if it would ensure a more mature player base.
This. GW2 will tell us if the B2P model really is viable. It will depend completely on the quality and quantity of the content that they make available, and whether or not the cash shop provides a way to fast track through the game by paying RW money. If they stay true to their claim that it will be almost exclusively cosmetic items, they should be fine. Many people won't use it, but I think many more will if they see something in there that hits them over the head with coolness. Knowing ANet, I think that's going to happen quite a bit.
Not this. I also play DDO right now and I can say with certainty that the community there is no more juvenile or irritating than say a subscription game like WoW. In fact, I've found it quite a bit more laid back than what I've become accustomed to. Perhaps it has something to do with DDO being a game that tends to appeal to older gamers like myself because we actually played the PnP version way back when. Maybe. But I do know the only reason a couple of old RP friends of mine play it is because it's free. The IP is just icing on the cake.
One thing to note is that there is a difference in quality between many of the sub-based games I've played and the free ones. The freebies are still fun and can easily consume gobs of time, but they're certainly not as shiny and polished as those I've paid for each month. They're not even as polished and clean as GW1. For GW2 to really succeed, it's going to have to turn it up a notch and leave those other F2Ps in the dust. It will need to prove that it's worthy of being called a 'AAA' title before I can say that the model has succeeded. And as much as I enjoy DDO, I can't call it 'AAA' by any stretch.
Personally I stay away from f2p MMOs because I've always found their full of kids and asshats. Not sure if thats changed in the last 2 years but I doubt it.
Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough?
I hope so. It will be nice to pay only for bugless content you want to see instead of paying for ingame "unfixed-bugs-neutralizing-support" and for content you do not want (or can't access depending on time you spend in game and your playstile).
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
The problem is that every B2P game has a cash shop. Cash shops are ALWAYS advertised somewhere in the game through the interface or even in the game world itself. That just kills it for me.
Would you pay an extra $15/mo to remove commercials from your TV shows? F' yeah I would and I'd do the same for subscription MMOG's as well.
BTW, are you guys poor or something? Subscription based MMOG's, even the ones with additional cash shops, are the most economical form of entertainment next to sex (or masturbation if you're single).
Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough?
I much prefer having a choice.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein "Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough?
I hope so. It will be nice to pay only for bugless content you want to see instead of paying for ingame "unfixed-bugs-neutralizing-support" and for content you do not want (or can't access depending on time you spend in game and your playstile).
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
Im sorry have you played it lately? with they extra story books and all?
Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough?
I hope so. It will be nice to pay only for bugless content you want to see instead of paying for ingame "unfixed-bugs-neutralizing-support" and for content you do not want (or can't access depending on time you spend in game and your playstile).
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
{Mod edit} a word for those who haven't played the game; Guild Wars is defintely not lacking in content. The amount of content available to Guild Wars players is one of the reasons so many people are still playing the game.
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
In B2P you can buy all content or buy only part of it. It's only your decision. P2P sell you all content, even the one you do not need (if there is any). I did not need PvE raids in WoW but I had to pay for them to have access to the game.
By the way, GW1 have much more content then WoW. Just try to imagine WoW without all its grinding and you will see that there is almost nothing left in this game.
Anyone else hopes that after GW2 release more and more MMOs will be developed with B2P model so F2P and Subscription MMOs will die forever soon enough?
I hope so. It will be nice to pay only for bugless content you want to see instead of paying for ingame "unfixed-bugs-neutralizing-support" and for content you do not want (or can't access depending on time you spend in game and your playstile).
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
I realize you might be a troll, but a word for those who haven't played the game; Guild Wars is defintely not lacking in content. The amount of content available to Guild Wars players is one of the reasons so many people are still playing the game.
I personally don't really care that GW maybe doesn't have the same amount of content as P2P MMO's but it still has a lot more content than almost anything else that you can do which cost the same amount of money (single player games for example, only offer a fraction of the gameplay GW offers). That's good enough for me.
The problem is that every B2P game has a cash shop. Cash shops are ALWAYS advertised somewhere in the game through the interface or even in the game world itself. That just kills it for me.
Would you pay an extra $15/mo to remove commercials from your TV shows? F' yeah I would and I'd do the same for subscription MMOG's as well.
BTW, are you guys poor or something? Subscription based MMOG's, even the ones with additional cash shops, are the most economical form of entertainment next to sex (or masturbation if you're single).
I've been playing GW Prophecies for the past couple days and I can honestly say the amount of advertising is miniscule. On the character selection screen in the upper right hand corner, there's a notice that bank tabs are on sale. Also, if you talk to the person standing next to the storage chest (the bank), there's an option to go to the store to purchase more tabs, but if you click on the storage chest itself there's no ad, just the bank tab window that opens. That's it. There's no obvious button like for the LOTRO or EQ2X Store. You can even open the menu in the lower left corner and see all the possible windows and options and there isn't even a store option there.
I also played GW Factions from start to finish a few months ago and saw the same behavior.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it."-Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
In B2P you can buy all content or buy only part of it. It's only your decision. P2P sell you all content, even the one you do not need (if there is any). I did not need PvE raids in WoW but I had to pay for them to have access to the game.
By the way, GW1 have a lot more content then WoW. Just try to imagine WoW without all its grinding and you will see that there is almost nothing left in this game.
Yes, I agree with this statement...
Kill 10 monsters
Kill 6 monsters
Kill 8 monsters
Collect 4 flowers
Collect 7 wolf tails
The same quest (with a new title) 1500+ times
Traditional questing in WoW is mindless, boring content. If you remove the quests and just look at end game content you'll see that Guild Wars offers more content than WoW using a B2P model.
The reason there will always be multiple options is answered in this threads debate. Different people like different things.
I personally like all models depending on my real life schedule. When I'm so busy with work and the family that I cannot justify $15 a month for 2-3hrs of game time, I like the b2p model since I can get on whenever I want and not feel like I'm wasting money. I only like a couple f2p games and those are facebook/browser based games. The 3d free games have yet to pull me in... Exception being DDO but even then I paid a monthly sub to access all the content.
Originally posted by Seival Originally posted by nerovipus32 people are so brainwashed by the p2p model they would rather pay a subscription to a game every month rather than have it a buy to play game like guildwars 2. I have heard people say crazy things like, "i wish guild wars was p2p rather than b2p", these people would rather pay 15 bucks a month to bask in the illusion that they are getting a higher quality product.
You are crazy to pay a subscription. It gets you nothing you couldn't have gotten paying once. Subscription fees do nothing but put more money in the publishers hands. Subcriptions don't run the servers, the box sales paid for that. If if you think the subscription fees are put back into the game with more content you're nuts.
GW is not short on content. After two years I have still not done eveyrthing possible. And despite most of the Arenanet staff working on GW2 they are still adding content to GW1. Probably after the Canthan New Year holiday events in February they will be adding new content to Guild Wars: Factions as part of Guild Wars Beyond, which is leading up to Guild Wars 2. Also going to be more about the Lunatic Court. which was introduced last Halloween. A new outpost is coming. Dervish mechanics is going to be updated and melee hero AI improved. All with a skeleton crew and without subscription fees.
With microtransactions I know in advance what I'm getting and don't have to pay for them if I don't want them.
You are crazy to pay a subscription. It gets you nothing you couldn't have gotten paying once. Subscription fees do nothing but put more money in the publishers hands. Subcriptions don't run the servers, the box sales paid for that. If if you think the subscription fees are put back into the game with more content you're nuts.
I look at it this way. I pay $15 per month so for 1 year I have to pay $180. Now what do I get for this 1 year in most MMOs? Well, I get 2-3 major content patches. Maybe 4 tops. Fixing bugs and balance issues are freebies, all games have this for free.
If we say we get 3-4 content patches which for some games is very optimistic -> 180/4 > $45 per patch. Is one content patch worth that much?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
people are so brainwashed by the p2p model they would rather pay a subscription to a game every month rather than have it a buy to play game like guildwars 2. I have heard people say crazy things like, "i wish guild wars was p2p rather than b2p", these people would rather pay 15 bucks a month to bask in the illusion that they are getting a higher quality product.
Talk about brainwashed, the game isn't out, nothing is final, you cannot tout events of tomorrow....today.
If GW2 sells exp potions/content/tokens for something....then I probably would be with those saying p2p. If they just sell fluff...then b2p is fine. We will see, last I read, they were not finalized on what they would be offering in its shop.
Speaks the truth, i'm really sick of this topic popping up on these forums every like month or so. The game doesn't even have a release date and the theory crafting behind this game over like the last year is just incredible.
Anyways only time will tell either way, i'm personally one of those people that don't see GW2 changing really at all from expansion to expansion so it doesn't really warrant a subscription.
I think a lot of people are wising up to the fact that most games aren't worth the 15 dollar subscription.
When you pay 15 dollars a month, for 3 months straight, only to see a patch that fixes some bugs that should have been handled at release, you start to wonder if you're really getting your money's worth. I don't see a game like wow or eve dropping their sub plans, but games like APB and DCUO should not be released with a subcription, at the very least not 15$.
I just sincerely hope everything doesn't move to Free to Pay. I can't stand that model.
Talk about brainwashed, the game isn't out, nothing is final, you cannot tout events of tomorrow....today.
If GW2 sells exp potions/content/tokens for something....then I probably would be with those saying p2p. If they just sell fluff...then b2p is fine. We will see, last I read, they were not finalized on what they would be offering in its shop.
Speaks the truth, i'm really sick of this topic popping up on these forums every like month or so. The game doesn't even have a release date and the theory crafting behind this game over like the last year is just incredible.
Anyways only time will tell either way, i'm personally one of those people that don't see GW2 changing really at all from expansion to expansion so it doesn't really warrant a subscription.
I guess you are the only one with the crystal ball, and everyone else is just theorycrafting. Which way is your tinfoil hat turned?
Talk about brainwashed, the game isn't out, nothing is final, you cannot tout events of tomorrow....today.
If GW2 sells exp potions/content/tokens for something....then I probably would be with those saying p2p. If they just sell fluff...then b2p is fine. We will see, last I read, they were not finalized on what they would be offering in its shop.
Speaks the truth, i'm really sick of this topic popping up on these forums every like month or so. The game doesn't even have a release date and the theory crafting behind this game over like the last year is just incredible.
Anyways only time will tell either way, i'm personally one of those people that don't see GW2 changing really at all from expansion to expansion so it doesn't really warrant a subscription.
I guess you are the only one with the crystal ball, and everyone else is just theorycrafting. Which way is your tinfoil hat turned?
Just basing my assumption off the GW1, don't get mad man.
people are so brainwashed by the p2p model they would rather pay a subscription to a game every month rather than have it a buy to play game like guildwars 2. I have heard people say crazy things like, "i wish guild wars was p2p rather than b2p", these people would rather pay 15 bucks a month to bask in the illusion that they are getting a higher quality product.
And some folks seem to think B2P games are "free", when in fact they are more like purchasing as series of single player games, where every 6 months or a year you purchase the next expansion.
I sort of prefer the CCP/EVE model where you purchase the game once, and the expansions are free forever. (same is true with Lineage 2)
What remains to be seen is if a traditional MMORPG can be developed and supported with the B2P model, GW1 was not such a game (even the Developers acknowledge this) so GW2 is the great experiment. If it succeeds then yes, we'll see the model expand to more MMO's, if it flops then the model will be relegated to just one of many alternatives.
Edit, one more thing, having a monthly sub keeps out "some" of the riff-raff of the gaming world (check out the communities of almost any F2P game to see what I mean, and GW1 was no exception) and in fact, I'd pay 30 bucks a month if it would ensure a more mature player base.
Hot damn! that's a good reply. I think I'm with you on this. I'd pay a substantially larger amount per month if it somehow could ensure a certain maturity level in the community of such a game.
Comments
I don't see how it's a sustainable model.. Those servers, the bandwidth and maintenance technicians, plus the devs.. they all cost money on a monthly basis.
Not many mmo's will allow themselves such a blatant money hole heh
GW1 can run successfully after all these years because server and bandwith cost is pretty minuscule. I recall reading somewhere about a guy who ran his own private server and it cost him practically nothing to maintain his bandwith and server processors. B2p games can easily be successful in this industry. And what made GW1 special is that there is only 1 expansion and 3 games. If you buy prophecies well good for you enjoy the game, they don't make it necessary to buy factions and nightfall in order to advance your character. Those are stand alone games and when combined with the other 2 add to the experience of the game, but you aren't required to own them, unlike how you are required to buy expansions in other games in order to progress.
This. GW2 will tell us if the B2P model really is viable. It will depend completely on the quality and quantity of the content that they make available, and whether or not the cash shop provides a way to fast track through the game by paying RW money. If they stay true to their claim that it will be almost exclusively cosmetic items, they should be fine. Many people won't use it, but I think many more will if they see something in there that hits them over the head with coolness. Knowing ANet, I think that's going to happen quite a bit.
Not this. I also play DDO right now and I can say with certainty that the community there is no more juvenile or irritating than say a subscription game like WoW. In fact, I've found it quite a bit more laid back than what I've become accustomed to. Perhaps it has something to do with DDO being a game that tends to appeal to older gamers like myself because we actually played the PnP version way back when. Maybe. But I do know the only reason a couple of old RP friends of mine play it is because it's free. The IP is just icing on the cake.
One thing to note is that there is a difference in quality between many of the sub-based games I've played and the free ones. The freebies are still fun and can easily consume gobs of time, but they're certainly not as shiny and polished as those I've paid for each month. They're not even as polished and clean as GW1. For GW2 to really succeed, it's going to have to turn it up a notch and leave those other F2Ps in the dust. It will need to prove that it's worthy of being called a 'AAA' title before I can say that the model has succeeded. And as much as I enjoy DDO, I can't call it 'AAA' by any stretch.
Personally I stay away from f2p MMOs because I've always found their full of kids and asshats. Not sure if thats changed in the last 2 years but I doubt it.
"I play Tera for the gameplay"
nope. i would rather pay a monthly fee and get all the content. GW1 was B2P and it was lacking in a lot of content.
B2P alone is great. Fantastic even.
The problem is that every B2P game has a cash shop. Cash shops are ALWAYS advertised somewhere in the game through the interface or even in the game world itself. That just kills it for me.
Would you pay an extra $15/mo to remove commercials from your TV shows? F' yeah I would and I'd do the same for subscription MMOG's as well.
BTW, are you guys poor or something? Subscription based MMOG's, even the ones with additional cash shops, are the most economical form of entertainment next to sex (or masturbation if you're single).
I much prefer having a choice.
There isn't a "right" or "wrong" way to play, if you want to use a screwdriver to put nails into wood, have at it, simply don't complain when the guy next to you with the hammer is doing it much better and easier. - Allein
"Graphics are often supplied by Engines that (some) MMORPG's are built in" - Spuffyre
{Mod edit} a word for those who haven't played the game; Guild Wars is defintely not lacking in content. The amount of content available to Guild Wars players is one of the reasons so many people are still playing the game.
In B2P you can buy all content or buy only part of it. It's only your decision. P2P sell you all content, even the one you do not need (if there is any). I did not need PvE raids in WoW but I had to pay for them to have access to the game.
By the way, GW1 have much more content then WoW. Just try to imagine WoW without all its grinding and you will see that there is almost nothing left in this game.
I personally don't really care that GW maybe doesn't have the same amount of content as P2P MMO's but it still has a lot more content than almost anything else that you can do which cost the same amount of money (single player games for example, only offer a fraction of the gameplay GW offers). That's good enough for me.
I've been playing GW Prophecies for the past couple days and I can honestly say the amount of advertising is miniscule. On the character selection screen in the upper right hand corner, there's a notice that bank tabs are on sale. Also, if you talk to the person standing next to the storage chest (the bank), there's an option to go to the store to purchase more tabs, but if you click on the storage chest itself there's no ad, just the bank tab window that opens. That's it. There's no obvious button like for the LOTRO or EQ2X Store. You can even open the menu in the lower left corner and see all the possible windows and options and there isn't even a store option there.
I also played GW Factions from start to finish a few months ago and saw the same behavior.
"Gamers will no longer buy the argument that every MMO requires a subscription fee to offset server and bandwidth costs. It's not true you know it, and they know it." -Jeff Strain, co-founder of ArenaNet, 2007
Yes, I agree with this statement...
Kill 10 monsters
Kill 6 monsters
Kill 8 monsters
Collect 4 flowers
Collect 7 wolf tails
The same quest (with a new title) 1500+ times
Traditional questing in WoW is mindless, boring content. If you remove the quests and just look at end game content you'll see that Guild Wars offers more content than WoW using a B2P model.
The reason there will always be multiple options is answered in this threads debate. Different people like different things.
I personally like all models depending on my real life schedule. When I'm so busy with work and the family that I cannot justify $15 a month for 2-3hrs of game time, I like the b2p model since I can get on whenever I want and not feel like I'm wasting money. I only like a couple f2p games and those are facebook/browser based games. The 3d free games have yet to pull me in... Exception being DDO but even then I paid a monthly sub to access all the content.
-Almerel
Hello my old friend.
me too! that's so true!
Guild Wars 2 Youtube Croatian Maniacs
My Guild Wars titles
EDIT* I shouldn't be allowed in forums when having a bad day
All of my posts are either intelligent, thought provoking, funny, satirical, sarcastic or intentionally disrespectful. Take your pick.
I get banned in the forums for games I love, so lets see if I do better in the forums for games I hate.
I enjoy the serenity of not caring what your opinion is.
I don't hate much, but I hate Apple© with a passion. If Steve Jobs was alive, I would punch him in the face.
You are crazy to pay a subscription. It gets you nothing you couldn't have gotten paying once. Subscription fees do nothing but put more money in the publishers hands. Subcriptions don't run the servers, the box sales paid for that. If if you think the subscription fees are put back into the game with more content you're nuts.
GW is not short on content. After two years I have still not done eveyrthing possible. And despite most of the Arenanet staff working on GW2 they are still adding content to GW1. Probably after the Canthan New Year holiday events in February they will be adding new content to Guild Wars: Factions as part of Guild Wars Beyond, which is leading up to Guild Wars 2. Also going to be more about the Lunatic Court. which was introduced last Halloween. A new outpost is coming. Dervish mechanics is going to be updated and melee hero AI improved. All with a skeleton crew and without subscription fees.
With microtransactions I know in advance what I'm getting and don't have to pay for them if I don't want them.
I look at it this way. I pay $15 per month so for 1 year I have to pay $180. Now what do I get for this 1 year in most MMOs? Well, I get 2-3 major content patches. Maybe 4 tops. Fixing bugs and balance issues are freebies, all games have this for free.
If we say we get 3-4 content patches which for some games is very optimistic -> 180/4 > $45 per patch. Is one content patch worth that much?
Mission in life: Vanquish all MMORPG.com trolls - especially TESO, WOW and GW2 trolls.
Speaks the truth, i'm really sick of this topic popping up on these forums every like month or so. The game doesn't even have a release date and the theory crafting behind this game over like the last year is just incredible.
Anyways only time will tell either way, i'm personally one of those people that don't see GW2 changing really at all from expansion to expansion so it doesn't really warrant a subscription.
I think a lot of people are wising up to the fact that most games aren't worth the 15 dollar subscription.
When you pay 15 dollars a month, for 3 months straight, only to see a patch that fixes some bugs that should have been handled at release, you start to wonder if you're really getting your money's worth. I don't see a game like wow or eve dropping their sub plans, but games like APB and DCUO should not be released with a subcription, at the very least not 15$.
I just sincerely hope everything doesn't move to Free to Pay. I can't stand that model.
I guess you are the only one with the crystal ball, and everyone else is just theorycrafting. Which way is your tinfoil hat turned?
Just basing my assumption off the GW1, don't get mad man.
I wouldn't say that Buy to Play is the future of MMO games. Not many have even gone that route.
I also wouldn't say Guild Wars 1 is an MMORPG. The multiplayer wasn't really massive. It was just a fragmented instanced game.
Hot damn! that's a good reply. I think I'm with you on this. I'd pay a substantially larger amount per month if it somehow could ensure a certain maturity level in the community of such a game.