LOL darth maul is cool and all but lets face it he got beat by obi wan kenobi the guy just jumped up and grabs the ligthsaber and stabs him so BAD. Vader is way cooler cause he can force choke and lightning in the games and just loks way cooler
Lightside Jedi can also force choke, as Luke proves in "Return of the Jedi".
I have never seen Vader use lightning in the movies. I dont see why I should buy he can use it from some secondary force.
Man, I was sort of looking forward to this title until the OP so painfully pointed out all of the WOW comparisions which I've been trying to overlook.
If this game does turn out to be nothing more than WOW in space it will be a disappointment in my eyes, regardless how finanically successful it becomes.
And regarding the IP, seriously Star Wars is so 1980's....... (and I saw the original movies back in the 70's and 80's)
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
It will not break 700k subs/ players. and thats giving alot of credits.
Hu ? Then it would be a massive failure. Apparently it got prelaunch investments of about 150 Mio $ in it.
If you just assume that the money goes 100% into financing the prelaunch investments, and players pay 15$ per month, that results in
150 Mio$ / 700k * 15$ = 15 months min playtime.
So yeah, to just reach its investments, it would have to keep all 700k players for about 2 years minimum.
Do you guys really think this game will only have 700k subscribers? it will have millions, this is bioware were talking about not cryptic.
I am guessing around a million. MMOs in general are niche, and Sci-Fi is a niche within a niche, but with the Star Wars License and EA martketing I think it will have a sustained 1 mill subscribers.
It will not break 700k subs/ players. and thats giving alot of credits.
Hu ? Then it would be a massive failure. Apparently it got prelaunch investments of about 150 Mio $ in it.
If you just assume that the money goes 100% into financing the prelaunch investments, and players pay 15$ per month, that results in
150 Mio$ / 700k * 15$ = 15 months min playtime.
So yeah, to just reach its investments, it would have to keep all 700k players for about 2 years minimum.
Do you guys really think this game will only have 700k subscribers? it will have millions, this is bioware were talking about not cryptic.
Millions of "sustained" subs is the exception, not the rule in modern P2P MMORPG's so its understandable that people are skeptical. And no, just because its Bioware does not guarantee its a going to be able to sustain a large number of subs.
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master
Rofl'd easy to learn, easier to master.
In my opinion, it will be overhyped and fail, like most games. You will have the boom of millions of subs, one class will be overpowered, players will complain, players complaining will roll said class, class will get nerfed, players who complained will complain yet again, bioware will listen to every spiel there is to be said, abide by it, and fail due to balancing issues, and low population from the ever cycle of complainers.
It will not break 700k subs/ players. and thats giving alot of credits.
Hu ? Then it would be a massive failure. Apparently it got prelaunch investments of about 150 Mio $ in it.
If you just assume that the money goes 100% into financing the prelaunch investments, and players pay 15$ per month, that results in
150 Mio$ / 700k * 15$ = 15 months min playtime.
So yeah, to just reach its investments, it would have to keep all 700k players for about 2 years minimum.
Do you guys really think this game will only have 700k subscribers? it will have millions, this is bioware were talking about not cryptic.
Millions of "sustained" subs is the exception, not the rule in modern P2P MMORPG's so its understandable that people are skeptical. And no, just because its Bioware does not guarantee its a going to be able to sustain a large number of subs.
For me it does for three reasons:
1 - Bioware is one of the best developers in the market
2 - They have an high quality control.
2 - They have millions of fans worldwide who play their games.
This are three things blizzard also had before launching WoW and see were they are now.
People are skeptical because all the other mmo's released after WoW were crap, they lacked polish or had bad launches, etc. Bioware takes it's time when making their games and they never released a game below metascore 90 (ok maybe sonic adventures but that is for DS :P).
WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master
Rofl'd easy to learn, easier to master.
In my opinion, it will be overhyped and fail, like most games. You will have the boom of millions of subs, one class will be overpowered, players will complain, players complaining will roll said class, class will get nerfed, players who complained will complain yet again, bioware will listen to every spiel there is to be said, abide by it, and fail due to balancing issues, and low population from the ever cycle of complainers.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
Well see about that. Beta reports so far seem to contradict your little survey.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
that is one guild on one server you would have to talk to ever guild on every server to get any real info about what WoW players think about TOR
Most of those points was also true of SOE and SWG, prior to Smedley's Order 66.
Just saying.
Yep. I remember the days. People back just before the release saying SWG was going to be the biggest game since...and then reality struck. SWG was a great game for those of us that liked it...what all 350k to 400k of us. That was about it. Then the CU drove a lot away...then came Smedley's version of Order 66...the NGE and it drove tons more away and the game is a shell of what it once was.
Just because you slap the name Star Wars on a box does not make it awesome. Look at the last movies since Empire Strikes Back. All garbage.
Well i liked some Bioware stuff i did enjoy Baldur's Gat,but that is a farcry from todays demands.
We are really talking about EA,and that is a developer well known for pushing it's labor force to speed up game production,that can never be a good thing.they were sued and lost for making their staff work extra long hours and for the most part not paying any over time,salary i guess was exempt.EA sees one inlking of money loss and they start to layoff,again that cannot be good for a game,you wish to see ongoing development from.
The reality,is and i have seen it over the 30+ years is that a GOOD game needs a large dev with money and this game does have that.As of right now it seems to be the only hope for a good game to come out,i have been so depressed with other games,i might just buy SWTOR without even trying it,i guess to sort of force myself to like someting,as i see nothing in the near future being playable.
One thing to remember ,Bioware's RPG's are not really MMO worthy, close but not enough over all content.Here is the thing,those games sold for the same as this game will sell for,so the profit margin is no greater other than the fact that being an MMO is like auto higher sales...sometimes.Soooooooo if the profit margin is no greater than a single player game,are they willing to put out the effort to give us a lifetime game,or is it going to be another 40 hour game with online status?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Most of those points was also true of SOE and SWG, prior to Smedley's Order 66.
Just saying.
Yep. I remember the days. People back just before the release saying SWG was going to be the biggest game since...and then reality struck. SWG was a great game for those of us that liked it...what all 350k to 400k of us. That was about it. Then the CU drove a lot away...then came Smedley's version of Order 66...the NGE and it drove tons more away and the game is a shell of what it once was.
Just because you slap the name Star Wars on a box does not make it awesome. Look at the last movies since Empire Strikes Back. All garbage.
Well remember that was HUGE ,considering not many at all had DSL yet,it was about a year or at the same time Wow came out,that DSL became accessible everywhere Canada and the USA and even in Eirope,i knew people who had to go on waiting lists to get it.
If there was that sudden influx of 10-15 million dsl gamers,i am sure EQ an SWG would have easily had 5+ million each.
As we are talking SWTOR and right now,i know it seems obvious 1 million subs or even more,but where are they going to get them from?I think there is 1 million to easily be had early on,many will keep other games subbed for a month or so to determine SWTOR is worth it.I think 2-3 million earlyis not out of reach.IF the game turns out to be really good,and it MUST be REALLy good to maintain subs,becuase people will just go back to their level 80+ players in their old game ,if it is not really good.
Personally ,my gut feeling has really never been wrong,i feel SWTOR will be no better than a 7/10 effort,but very good chance i will still buy it and sub.If they can pull off good class design with good combat,we can over look another boring copy cat questing treadmill and enjoy 2/4 of good game design,the other 1/4 is from outside content,mini games,graphics,exploration ect ect.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well i liked some Bioware stuff i did enjoy Baldur's Gat,but that is a farcry from todays demands.
We are really talking about EA,and that is a developer well known for pushing it's labor force to speed up game production,that can never be a good thing.they were sued and lost for making their staff work extra long hours and for the most part not paying any over time,salary i guess was exempt.EA sees one inlking of money loss and they start to layoff,again that cannot be good for a game,you wish to see ongoing development from.
The reality,is and i have seen it over the 30+ years is that a GOOD game needs a large dev with money and this game does have that.As of right now it seems to be the only hope for a good game to come out,i have been so depressed with other games,i might just buy SWTOR without even trying it,i guess to sort of force myself to like someting,as i see nothing in the near future being playable.
One thing to remember ,Bioware's RPG's are not really MMO worthy, close but not enough over all content.Here is the thing,those games sold for the same as this game will sell for,so the profit margin is no greater other than the fact that being an MMO is like auto higher sales...sometimes.Soooooooo if the profit margin is no greater than a single player game,are they willing to put out the effort to give us a lifetime game,or is it going to be another 40 hour game with online status?
Nope, they stated there is about 200 hours worth of gamplay time just in the class story alone. That isn't including the other 60 percent of the game or if you reroll, and as each class has a different story, that 200 hours is for each of the 8 classes. So if you just played the class story and nothing else for each of the 8 classes, thats about 1600 hours right there.
I'm actively looking for the link, just haven't found it yet. Will add it soon as i do.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
1. It's Star Wars. Do I really need the other points? Everything that is Star Wars is gold except jar jar binks because hes stupid.
I disagree. Not everything Star Wars is good. SWG was a piece of shit. Force Unleashed 2,Bounty Hunter and most of games based on the movies were not very good. Episodes 1 and 2 weren't all that good IMO.
2. It's BioWare. Really, are you still reading?
And?
3. I heard from people in beta (from the ToR forums) that its like WoW having a baby in KOTOR. WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master and very pretty to look at. KOTOR 2 especially is my favorite single player game of all time. Imagine taking WoWs unique questing system like riding in vehicles and turrets, combining that in SPACESHIPS and with Speeders and lightsabers, ahhhhhh what more could you want?
A player based economy, PVP that is more than just gank and quick respawn, vibrant social hubs etc.e tc.
4. It's Star Wars.
And?
I think this game will beat WoW, simple as that. A lot of my friends in my guild are just waiting for this to come out and theyre gone. as soon as tor comes out, its all star wars from then on, and same with me. I like killing noobs in BGs with my Ret Pally and rogue XD BUT this game will be way more awesome as i can kill them with the same class (sith warrior) with a LIGHTSABER. Also anyone who goes Republic is lame Vader is better than Yoda anyday and TOR is going to let me be as badass as Vader was!
I also look forward to this game, but don't expect this to beat WOW . That is setting unreasonable expectations. If the game is stable, fun, and innovative then it will be a success and grow.
It will not break 700k subs/ players. and thats giving alot of credits.
Its diffrent from other mmo's i will give you that, but iam not getting heated up with what ive seen so far, it looks like an old engine and i dont like shotting, and many might feel so to.
Dark Mellenium i might try, SW ? nope will not bite the hype for this one.
Are you speaking for sales in 1 country? Or globally? Because might I remind you, Aion brought in over 3million concurrent subs globally, while only around 500-800k at it's peak in the US. You will see similar trends even with the mighty WoW.
I wouldn't underestimate the power of external marketing, I see 'realistically', easily at least 1 million 'copies' sold. Beyond that, I can't say. Your 700k estimate reminds me of AOC, which did amazingly well at launch and sold over a million copies and had 700k subs, then dropped rapidly after people got past tortage, where all the voice acting/story driven content ended.
Had they not lied about the scope of their project and how far the cinematic/voice overs went with good quests, and open lands like they had promised, AOC would have done much better.
To say that even SWTOR would do worse than AOC is a joke imo. SWTOR has better marketing behind it, a better developer, a larger IP, and they are doing what AOC failed to deliver.
And FYI, the engine it state of the art. It allows the developer to add to the world with players ingame. No more patching/server downtime for updates/expansion, they can seamlessly add content to the world while players play the game. The graphics? It's built under similar philosophy as WoW: Run well on as many computers as possible for a broader audience. Granted the sylized look and lower polygon count isn't for everyone. However most people are about Gameplay > Graphics. If WoW's 11 million is any indication. Either way, I cannot look at this image without liking the direction the game has taken.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
Thats what I said when I was playing SWG and heard about WoW for the first time <_<
BioWare Austin, headed by Gordon Walton and Rich Vogel (primarily Star Wars Galaxies & Ultima Online developers) and Rob Denton (primarily Warhammer Online developer/usurper) who "reports directly to" Ray Muzyka (who lives in another country, but they gotta make it seem like someone important from BioWare is actually involved in the game). Throw in a number of laid off Mythic employees and you get an EA Manufactured branch of BioWare (which is mainly based in Canada, btw--Austin, TX couldn't be further). Just because someone has been subtly involved with maybe one single-player game you have kind memories of, does not mean they should be trusted with an MMORPG, a genre in which they have all had their hands dipped in utter failure.
Originally posted by Toxilium
3. I heard from people in beta (from the ToR forums) that its like WoW having a baby in KOTOR. WoW is my favorite MMO of all time as its esay to learn but hard to master and very pretty to look at. KOTOR 2 especially is my favorite single player game of all time. Imagine taking WoWs unique questing system like riding in vehicles and turrets, combining that in SPACESHIPS and with Speeders and lightsabers, ahhhhhh what more could you want?
Comments
Lightside Jedi can also force choke, as Luke proves in "Return of the Jedi".
I have never seen Vader use lightning in the movies. I dont see why I should buy he can use it from some secondary force.
Not really. Not at all.
It will be the best mmo ever because it will be fun and immersive, single player game level of fun in a mmo setting. It will get about 2-7m subs.
TOR will deliver something that many people want, those people are mostly not on this site tough.
Man, I was sort of looking forward to this title until the OP so painfully pointed out all of the WOW comparisions which I've been trying to overlook.
If this game does turn out to be nothing more than WOW in space it will be a disappointment in my eyes, regardless how finanically successful it becomes.
And regarding the IP, seriously Star Wars is so 1980's....... (and I saw the original movies back in the 70's and 80's)
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Hu ? Then it would be a massive failure. Apparently it got prelaunch investments of about 150 Mio $ in it.
If you just assume that the money goes 100% into financing the prelaunch investments, and players pay 15$ per month, that results in
150 Mio$ / 700k * 15$ = 15 months min playtime.
So yeah, to just reach its investments, it would have to keep all 700k players for about 2 years minimum.
Do you guys really think this game will only have 700k subscribers? it will have millions, this is bioware were talking about not cryptic.
I am guessing around a million. MMOs in general are niche, and Sci-Fi is a niche within a niche, but with the Star Wars License and EA martketing I think it will have a sustained 1 mill subscribers.
In Bioware we trust!
Millions of "sustained" subs is the exception, not the rule in modern P2P MMORPG's so its understandable that people are skeptical. And no, just because its Bioware does not guarantee its a going to be able to sustain a large number of subs.
"True friends stab you in the front." | Oscar Wilde
"I need to finish" - Christian Wolff: The Accountant
Just trying to live long enough to play a new, released MMORPG, playing New Worlds atm
Fools find no pleasure in understanding but delight in airing their own opinions. Pvbs 18:2, NIV
Don't just play games, inhabit virtual worlds™
"This is the most intelligent, well qualified and articulate response to a post I have ever seen on these forums. It's a shame most people here won't have the attention span to read past the second line." - Anon
Rofl'd easy to learn, easier to master.
In my opinion, it will be overhyped and fail, like most games. You will have the boom of millions of subs, one class will be overpowered, players will complain, players complaining will roll said class, class will get nerfed, players who complained will complain yet again, bioware will listen to every spiel there is to be said, abide by it, and fail due to balancing issues, and low population from the ever cycle of complainers.
For me it does for three reasons:
1 - Bioware is one of the best developers in the market
2 - They have an high quality control.
2 - They have millions of fans worldwide who play their games.
This are three things blizzard also had before launching WoW and see were they are now.
People are skeptical because all the other mmo's released after WoW were crap, they lacked polish or had bad launches, etc. Bioware takes it's time when making their games and they never released a game below metascore 90 (ok maybe sonic adventures but that is for DS :P).
Glad it's just your opinion then.
this game will NOT even SCRATCH World of Warcraft's subsbribers base. I did a small survey on a WoW server (I dont play wow but my mate does) and they say it looks cool but they don't want to leave because they invested so many time in WoW. What they found even more important is that unless the whole guild moves, they won't move to another game since that would mean to say goodbye to years of MMO friendship.
Well see about that. Beta reports so far seem to contradict your little survey.
Yeah this is scientific...
In Bioware we trust!
that is one guild on one server you would have to talk to ever guild on every server to get any real info about what WoW players think about TOR
Heresy.
Darth Vader: a villain so cool, they needed three actors to play him.
Yep. I remember the days. People back just before the release saying SWG was going to be the biggest game since...and then reality struck. SWG was a great game for those of us that liked it...what all 350k to 400k of us. That was about it. Then the CU drove a lot away...then came Smedley's version of Order 66...the NGE and it drove tons more away and the game is a shell of what it once was.
Just because you slap the name Star Wars on a box does not make it awesome. Look at the last movies since Empire Strikes Back. All garbage.
Well i liked some Bioware stuff i did enjoy Baldur's Gat,but that is a farcry from todays demands.
We are really talking about EA,and that is a developer well known for pushing it's labor force to speed up game production,that can never be a good thing.they were sued and lost for making their staff work extra long hours and for the most part not paying any over time,salary i guess was exempt.EA sees one inlking of money loss and they start to layoff,again that cannot be good for a game,you wish to see ongoing development from.
The reality,is and i have seen it over the 30+ years is that a GOOD game needs a large dev with money and this game does have that.As of right now it seems to be the only hope for a good game to come out,i have been so depressed with other games,i might just buy SWTOR without even trying it,i guess to sort of force myself to like someting,as i see nothing in the near future being playable.
One thing to remember ,Bioware's RPG's are not really MMO worthy, close but not enough over all content.Here is the thing,those games sold for the same as this game will sell for,so the profit margin is no greater other than the fact that being an MMO is like auto higher sales...sometimes.Soooooooo if the profit margin is no greater than a single player game,are they willing to put out the effort to give us a lifetime game,or is it going to be another 40 hour game with online status?
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Well remember that was HUGE ,considering not many at all had DSL yet,it was about a year or at the same time Wow came out,that DSL became accessible everywhere Canada and the USA and even in Eirope,i knew people who had to go on waiting lists to get it.
If there was that sudden influx of 10-15 million dsl gamers,i am sure EQ an SWG would have easily had 5+ million each.
As we are talking SWTOR and right now,i know it seems obvious 1 million subs or even more,but where are they going to get them from?I think there is 1 million to easily be had early on,many will keep other games subbed for a month or so to determine SWTOR is worth it.I think 2-3 million earlyis not out of reach.IF the game turns out to be really good,and it MUST be REALLy good to maintain subs,becuase people will just go back to their level 80+ players in their old game ,if it is not really good.
Personally ,my gut feeling has really never been wrong,i feel SWTOR will be no better than a 7/10 effort,but very good chance i will still buy it and sub.If they can pull off good class design with good combat,we can over look another boring copy cat questing treadmill and enjoy 2/4 of good game design,the other 1/4 is from outside content,mini games,graphics,exploration ect ect.
Never forget 3 mile Island and never trust a government official or company spokesman.
Nope, they stated there is about 200 hours worth of gamplay time just in the class story alone. That isn't including the other 60 percent of the game or if you reroll, and as each class has a different story, that 200 hours is for each of the 8 classes. So if you just played the class story and nothing else for each of the 8 classes, thats about 1600 hours right there.
I'm actively looking for the link, just haven't found it yet. Will add it soon as i do.
Help me Bioware, you're my only hope.
Is ToR going to be good? Dude it's Bioware making a freaking star wars game, all signs point to awesome. -G4tv MMo report.
Currently Playing: World of Warcraft
I would like to refer everyone to this link: http://www.mmorpg.com/discussion2.cfm/post/4041435#4041435
The same applies to this thread.
Are you speaking for sales in 1 country? Or globally? Because might I remind you, Aion brought in over 3million concurrent subs globally, while only around 500-800k at it's peak in the US. You will see similar trends even with the mighty WoW.
I wouldn't underestimate the power of external marketing, I see 'realistically', easily at least 1 million 'copies' sold. Beyond that, I can't say. Your 700k estimate reminds me of AOC, which did amazingly well at launch and sold over a million copies and had 700k subs, then dropped rapidly after people got past tortage, where all the voice acting/story driven content ended.
Had they not lied about the scope of their project and how far the cinematic/voice overs went with good quests, and open lands like they had promised, AOC would have done much better.
To say that even SWTOR would do worse than AOC is a joke imo. SWTOR has better marketing behind it, a better developer, a larger IP, and they are doing what AOC failed to deliver.
And FYI, the engine it state of the art. It allows the developer to add to the world with players ingame. No more patching/server downtime for updates/expansion, they can seamlessly add content to the world while players play the game. The graphics? It's built under similar philosophy as WoW: Run well on as many computers as possible for a broader audience. Granted the sylized look and lower polygon count isn't for everyone. However most people are about Gameplay > Graphics. If WoW's 11 million is any indication. Either way, I cannot look at this image without liking the direction the game has taken.
Thats what I said when I was playing SWG and heard about WoW for the first time <_<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dddaZhaAxBY (Hayden Christiensen, lol. Entire prequel series was a train wreck.)
BioWare Austin, headed by Gordon Walton and Rich Vogel (primarily Star Wars Galaxies & Ultima Online developers) and Rob Denton (primarily Warhammer Online developer/usurper) who "reports directly to" Ray Muzyka (who lives in another country, but they gotta make it seem like someone important from BioWare is actually involved in the game). Throw in a number of laid off Mythic employees and you get an EA Manufactured branch of BioWare (which is mainly based in Canada, btw--Austin, TX couldn't be further). Just because someone has been subtly involved with maybe one single-player game you have kind memories of, does not mean they should be trusted with an MMORPG, a genre in which they have all had their hands dipped in utter failure.
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Eab0Ys7znH4 OMG SPASE KOMBAT (oh wait, it's on rails and essentially a single-player side game.) Hell, reminds me more of this classic... http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=359qyiXskCE Rebel Assault 1993, my first computer game.